01:35:34 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-2096-g3ec762b4b6 (34) 01:58:58 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-2096-g3ec762b4b6 02:26:35 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.32-a0-2096-g3ec762b4b6 (34) 02:55:40 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.32-a0-2096-g3ec762b4b6 03:41:40 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2097-ga9c2434b49: Tweak some Xom messages 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9c2434b49d5 03:41:40 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2098-g6bd198a3e8: Brief quick vault passover 10(4 hours ago, 7 files, 60+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6bd198a3e8b2 03:41:40 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2099-g9f76b2ef98: New option: food_snacking_frequency (default 40%) 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 16+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f76b2ef98cb 03:41:40 03CipHuK02 {regret-index} 07* 0.32-a0-2100-g5a795d2ccf: Trove: Fix trove_misc_dual_throne_room veto (#3976) 10(35 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5a795d2ccffc 03:42:36 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2097-ga9c2434b49: Tweak some Xom messages 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9c2434b49d5 03:42:37 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2098-g6bd198a3e8: Brief quick vault passover 10(4 hours ago, 7 files, 60+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6bd198a3e8b2 03:42:48 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2099-g9f76b2ef98: New option: food_snacking_frequency (default 40%) 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 16+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f76b2ef98cb 03:42:59 03CipHuK02 {regret-index} 07* 0.32-a0-2100-g5a795d2ccf: Trove: Fix trove_misc_dual_throne_room veto (#3976) 10(35 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5a795d2ccffc 03:45:20 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2101-ge0650be844: Make some food documentation more consistent 10(6 seconds ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e0650be84443 03:45:50 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2101-ge0650be844: Make some food documentation more consistent 10(34 seconds ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e0650be84443 06:32:52 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-5208-geafff8c3b6 08:29:49 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.32-a0-2101-ge0650be (34) 08:57:49 <08nicolae> 40% is not a third of the time 10:06:31 <09gammafunk> lol, quite true. I recommend you commit a quick update 10:11:24 <08nicolae> sadly i am not at home at the moment 10:15:36 <09gammafunk> really? That's terrible. I'm all curled up in my comfy snail shell, regenerating. 10:16:25 <08nicolae> 🐌 <-- gammafunk 12:27:13 Sergey (L24 CoFi) ASSERT(defender->alive()) in 'fight.cc' at line 394 failed. (Crucible) 12:28:25 <06pleasingfungus> whoa, sergey crash 12:28:28 <06pleasingfungus> nice 13:44:23 <04dracoomega> Hmmm... I think this is the second time I've seen this one (first my have possibly been local; I don't recall). So it can't be very common, given that Fanatic is relatively popular, but I wonder what the cause is... 13:52:41 <04dracoomega> Oh, I think I have an idea 13:53:41 <04dracoomega> Crucible victims are spawned at randomly 30-80% of their max HP, and thus I think it's possible for victim types with sufficiently low HP to round down to 0. The last thing he tried to attack was a goblin. 13:54:25 <04dracoomega> So the game can probably spawn a seemingly-living monster with 0 HP (which does not then actually count as 'alive' for checks, despite standing there and looking fairly normal) 14:13:01 <06pleasingfungus> excellent 14:13:11 <06pleasingfungus> the walking dead..! 14:27:18 <04dracoomega> Except or the part where they're perma-paralysed and definitionally not walking anywhere 😛 14:34:03 <04dracoomega> Going to go through my 0.32 to-do list again today and pick out all the remaining small things I'm going to do before feature freeze, to do today. I'm deferring the proposed Mak/Veh/Beogh wrath changes I've mentioned before until 0.33. Not just because it was a bunch of work and I was tired/busy, but also because I don't think abandoning these gods is done frequently enough to comfortably consider it tested during feature freeze (I 14:34:04 mean, how often does Vehumet get abandoned in the first place?) Will try to make that a relatively-early 0.33 thing. 14:53:19 <09gammafunk> I still need to make that trunk update post. Will do this weekend for sure 14:53:59 <09gammafunk> Might have time to throw up initial t page, but that can happen next weekend 14:54:26 <09gammafunk> I don't know if we have any significant rule changes 14:54:39 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2102-gac85ce32bd: Add a force_more to sighting the_gamble (Riverfiend) 10(10 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac85ce32bd8a 14:54:46 <09gammafunk> I think just a tweak to zig score cap 14:55:16 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2102-gac85ce32bd: Add a force_more to sighting the_gamble (Riverfiend) 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac85ce32bd8a 14:56:45 <06mumra> Hi, I crawled back out of my cave 🙂 When is feature freeze? I have this whole shop name generator I started on ages ago and I just dusted off the branch and got it pretty much finished. Maybe a bit late for 0.32 but it has no gameplay changes, only more randomised shop and shopkeeper names. 14:56:55 <06regret-⸸nde※> ...Tomorrow. 14:57:02 <06regret-⸸nde※> Sorry. 14:57:32 <04dracoomega> Day after tomorrow, isn't it? 14:57:41 <06regret-⸸nde※> (I don't think it should be too backbreaking to add it in right before freeze considering testing should easily look at shop names plenty, though.) 14:59:17 <06mumra> Well I'll see if I can finalise it in time, but it's not a heartbreak if it can't make it in 15:00:29 <06regret-⸸nde※> (It'd probably be good to rename Dithmenos's Politician to something else, considering the new reflavour? Not much on actual rules beyond a desire to change the zig score cap comes to mind, though.) 15:03:53 <06regret-⸸nde※> (...The Dithmenos and Jiyva altar .gifs are out of date, though the upscaling on these is, uh, a little jarringly non-integer (in Firefox at a standard 1920x1040 dimensions, Fedhas's altar is repeatedly animating slightly to try and fix its pixels from being scaled up by 2.625).) 15:04:32 <09gammafunk> ??newdith 15:04:33 <04Cerebot> newDith[1/10]: 0.32's rework of Dithmenos, now the patron god of actors and thieves and all else who work in shadow. Grants passive noise suppression at 1* (cutting it in half!), a passive mimicking shadow at 2* (see newDith entries [2] through [6]), Shadowslip at 3* ([7]), Aphotic Marionette at 4* ([8] and [9]), and Primordial Nightfall at 5* ([10]). 15:05:18 <09gammafunk> Well, the category is about stealing high scores, so we'd need a more fitting name that somehow conveyed the idea of stealing high scores. And it seems to me that newdith has enough stealth theme left that the notion of a sneaky stab feels within theme. 15:05:23 <09gammafunk> re: dith reflavor 15:05:53 <06regret-⸸nde※> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1273356943267991664/image.png?ex=66be5191&is=66bd0011&hm=b8f6091d9b91ec591dd70824e01884592ffef5d9e3eec985a255182bbf96f051& 15:06:42 <09gammafunk> perhaps you could just pivot it to the notion of "stealing" 15:06:51 <09gammafunk> rather than overtly referencing stabbing 15:07:08 <09gammafunk> Nocturnal vaguely works as a new banner name, for example 15:07:11 <09gammafunk> but it's kind of weak 15:07:33 <04dracoomega> I wonder if there's something in the possibility of 'immitating better than the original' here? 15:07:37 <09gammafunk> But yeah if we're not changing the banner rules, which I don't think we are, we do need to keep the notion of something being taken (i.e. the high score) 15:07:45 <09gammafunk> sure, that might work 15:07:53 <09gammafunk> banner names don't have to be a single word 15:07:59 <09gammafunk> but they do need to be somewhat short I think 15:08:16 <09gammafunk> Descent into Madness is the longest 15:08:26 <09gammafunk> so roughly no longer than that character-wise should be good 15:09:16 <04dracoomega> Yeah, not quite sure a punchy word/phrase for it at the moment, but that does feel a bit more in keeping with current Dith, if something presents itself. (tbh, I think the 'politician' name at this point is practically a reference to a 10+ year old removed skill. I realize it was preserved as the top title for short-blades, but I wonder if it's even obvious to people who weren't around for Stabbing skill why that is the case) 15:09:42 <09gammafunk> !title politician 15:10:00 <04Cerebot> politician: Short Blades 27 15:10:13 <09gammafunk> yeah I think it's clear enough on its own since short blades do have such a strong relationship to stabbing 15:10:33 <09gammafunk> if you're using short blades extensively, you become aware of stabbing pretty quickly 15:10:55 <09gammafunk> although 27 short blades is a pretty comically bad thing to train for 15:11:32 <04dracoomega> Indeed 15:11:44 <04dracoomega> (I mean, 27 stabbing would have been even worse, of course) 15:12:11 <04dracoomega> Extra short blades skill at least theoretically contributes damage that isn't literally always overkill ^6; 15:12:20 <04dracoomega> Just a tiny amount of it 15:14:13 <09gammafunk> who knows 15:14:18 <04dracoomega> I wonder if there's something to 'Understudy' for the Dith banner. Y'know, a 'being ready to take over the leading role on short notice' kind of thing. Does that seem to much like it's implying you're second-best, rather than 'prepared for the role and then did it better than the other person'? 15:14:22 <09gammafunk> !lg * sk=stabbing sklev=27 urune<=5 15:14:30 <04Cerebot> 100. albenzo the Politician (L27 SpEn of Vehumet), slain by an Orb Guardian (kmap: hall_of_Zot) on Zot:5 on 2013-08-20 22:15:12, with 577177 points after 117840 turns and 5:23:17. 15:14:32 <09gammafunk> perhaps these 100 players were optimal 15:14:42 <09gammafunk> (good result where the latest one is a zot:5 death and not a win) 15:14:51 <04dracoomega> The optimal strategy of dying to an orb guardian 15:15:06 <04dracoomega> I respect it 15:15:18 <09gammafunk> game basically over at that point, why waste time doing the orb run 15:16:33 <09gammafunk> anyhow I'm fine with changing the Dith banner title, it's a trivial rename in the scripts, of course. If any more substantive changes need to happen, I do need to be told in the next week so I can have a chance to implement it (assuming I actually can) 15:17:39 <09gammafunk> Barely got the gem changes done last time, but I do at least have a better understanding of the db structure and associated views, so hopefully subsequent mid-level-of-difficulty changes are not so painful 15:18:42 <09gammafunk> oh and I really need to spend the time to make CDI properly use nginx proxy to S3 for ttyrecs and (eventually) morgues so it doesn't run out of disk space before tournament 15:19:25 <09gammafunk> that's one of those "this seems like it'll be fairly straightforward and I really hope it ends up being that way" changes 15:21:12 <09gammafunk> but I had the realization that I can run a containerized nginx on another port so I can test this without disrupting server operations, which was my big concern initially 15:22:26 <09gammafunk> testing it locally is very awkward when certs/reverse proxies etc are involved, but I can probably even have the test use my existing letsencrypt setup so I can ensure that it works under tls beforehand 15:33:09 <06regret-⸸nde※> (Possibly should poll the other channel for 0.32 version name ideas as that also looms close. My own suggestions are Revising Dark Dwarven Canon and Divine Dwarven Renaissance.) 15:39:17 <06pleasingfungus> i'm blocked, but i do like divine dwarven renaissance 15:39:38 <06pleasingfungus> could also try something like dwarves, duals, divines 15:39:52 <06pleasingfungus> for draco's delightful dcoglins 15:40:56 <04dracoomega> I think way back a few months ago, I had been thinking something like the lines of "Gods and Makers" (which kind of neatly merges the ideas of coglins and mountain dwarves) but it's also perhaps a bit on the plain side 15:41:05 <06pleasingfungus> i'm not offended by it 15:41:10 <04dracoomega> High praise there! 😛 15:41:18 <06pleasingfungus> Gods of Creation 15:42:33 <04dracoomega> I feel like this was something I always left to other people ^^; 15:43:08 <04dracoomega> (Probably because it feels relatively on the level of importance as a blog post title. I don't even remember the names of any of them besides the most recent one) 15:49:22 <06pleasingfungus> the only important one is 0.10 15:49:34 <06pleasingfungus> https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/crawl-0-10-octopus 15:52:06 <04dracoomega> See? I didn't even remember that one 15:52:28 <06pleasingfungus> heartbreaking 15:52:34 <06pleasingfungus> seems fine to forget all the others tho 15:52:39 <06pleasingfungus> just a good opportunity for bikeshedding 15:52:44 <06pleasingfungus> we don't have enough of those 16:07:15 <08nicolae> Keep The Light Off When You Come Back, Gimli 16:08:13 <08nicolae> oh, i misremembered what the gimli blog post was titled 16:08:35 <08nicolae> Gimli's Back... In Cog Form 16:11:33 <08nicolae> Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.32: Still Absolutely No Bitcoin Miners 16:19:53 <04dracoomega> Well, that's like 12 things on the list of 'try to do today if I'm going to do them in 0.32 at all' 16:19:59 <04dracoomega> Of various priority 16:20:39 "Gods and Makers" feels very clean, like it says everything without trying hard to, and "Divine Dwarven Renaissance" is more colorful while remaining pretty simple, my vote's between those two (also the URL made me think it was just: "Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup Version 0.10: Octopus") 16:21:19 <04dracoomega> Haha 16:21:34 somehow the idea of the version name just being "Octopus" was even better 16:21:48 <04dracoomega> Squid No! Yes Some Octopus! 16:22:28 S.N.Y.S.O. 16:22:58 <08nicolae> agreed. let's just do that for this one. 0.32: Mountain Dwarves. 16:59:54 <09gammafunk> And for next version it can be 0.33: We Removed Mountain Dwarves Again 17:00:45 <09gammafunk> Ended up being redundant with the newly added Moon Orc species 17:09:31 <08nicolae> 0.32: We Did Some Stuff 17:17:07 <06pleasingfungus> moonopoly?? 17:17:08 <04Cerebot> entertain your 'moon orc' fantasies as long as you wish, fools, it will be your undoing 17:17:26 <06pleasingfungus> oh no. gammafunk no! oh god he can't hear me, he's got Silence on 17:28:26 moonsters galore 17:45:29 <08wormsofcan> if we go with the dwarven one it should clearly be divine dwarven revolution 17:47:27 <06pleasingfungus> but we haven’t touched usk! 18:02:38 <09gammafunk> it's not too late... 18:08:10 <04dracoomega> It is definitely too late 😛 18:08:45 <04dracoomega> (Funny, #dcss was talking about weirdness about Usk caring more about OTR casts than Shatter casts, which feels weird to me, but there's no way for me to even investigate that in this timeframe ^^; ) 18:09:04 <09gammafunk> Only in your time zone! 18:10:31 <09gammafunk> Totally legit to push a massive and controversial Usk rework from a US timezone in the next few hours 18:38:21 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.32-a0-2102-gac85ce32bd (34) 18:49:17 <02Monkooky> how does usk piety work anyways 18:50:41 <04dracoomega> Some combination of 'how many things you hit' and 'how much damage you did' causing piety gain, with some non-linear function of 'how long it's been since you did this' that causes you to lose piety again 18:50:55 <04dracoomega> But I've never looked very closely at it 18:51:28 <04dracoomega> There's apparently some oddness about OTR hitting things multiple times that makes it evidently worth more piety than Shatter (?!!) even though Usk explicitly doesn't care about poison DoT ticks 18:52:19 <04dracoomega> Can totally believe there's some oddness there which might bear tweaking, but would want to take a very good look at it under multiple scenarios first 19:55:59 Hi guys. I'm trying to recover my account from some time ago. I'm not sure which server it was on but I'm being told my username's already in use when I try to make an account on NYC crawl.dcss.io. I sent an email to gammafunk inquiring about it a while ago but don't believe I got a response. 19:57:23 <06pleasingfungus> this is the right place to ask 19:57:32 <06pleasingfungus> what’s your username? 19:58:38 Same as here, Nibiki 20:02:06 <06pleasingfungus> gotcha. gammafunk will see this at some point and respond 20:03:32 Okay thanks. 20:25:32 <04dracoomega> So, I was trying to do some refactoring/unification of shoot_through_monster and related code (ie: god_protects stuff) after noticing Yet More Spells that don't fully ignore certain classes of creature that ought to be immune to them from the player. I partially did some of this during the Dith revamp and then got sidelined by something else (I forget what), but a few related bugs were on my list for today. But I realize now that 20:25:33 some of the issue here is that god_protects doesn't actually currently imply shoot_through_monster in at least one case, which is Jiyva jellies. But actually, the behavior regarding jellies is even weirder than I realized. Sure, I knew (even if I'd forgotten) that you don't gain the power to shoot non-piercing things through them as a worshipper, but in fact being with Jiyva prevents you from shooting through them with attacks that otherwise could 20:25:33 have. Like, if you aim a beam wand in a jelly's direction, it will stop cold at the jelly and not even let the player fire at all if your cursor is past it. Same with draconian breaths (including Green's meph breath, which wouldn't even have any effect on them in the first place). Weirdly, a specific exception is carved out for exactly BVC, which still pierces jellies. 20:32:57 <04dracoomega> I realize the idea of this recent change was to protect them from collateral damage without granting the player new ability to fire safely through them, which I can agree with, though this feels kind of weird to me, and I wonder how much it actually matters given that they don't/can't block screen-wide damage spells from shooting 'through' them anyway. 20:33:59 <04dracoomega> Can refrigerate or shatter, but can't hit something with a wand of acid. 20:35:40 <04dracoomega> Like, I guess it's trying to emulate what beams you could 'safely' fire through them before, by blocking ones that would anger them and letting BVC through, but that's incomplete and doing it that way seems error-prone in the first place. I guess I'm not quite sure what I think. 20:37:25 <04dracoomega> (I am reminded of some expressed desire to have Beogh offer similar protection to your apostles, so that you could use more than just a tiny handful of spells around them. I'd definitely like the idea of being able to use some things around them without angering them, but it was important to me that they not feel like ancestors, where you could safely snipe from behind them, and I wasn't satisfied that it was possible to do this 20:37:26 at all with how screen-wide spells and piercing beams worked) 21:01:38 <09gammafunk> so you could just fire ally-damaging spells without concern in terms of penance, but your apostles would still block LOF etc? 21:05:14 <04dracoomega> That was the suggestion that was made a couple of times. But I'm not sure there's a practical way to do that and not effectively give the larger part of 'can just plain fire through your allies' for so many spells that already don't or can't care what is in the way 21:07:13 <04dracoomega> And I feel like 'can use your ally as a safe blocker to do whatever you want from behind them' is kind of a key thing that Hep does, and which I didn't want to overlap with too much here. 21:07:51 <04dracoomega> But there is some awkwardness that 3 allies is just a lot of bodies to get in the way of entire spell schools, even when you're trying to avoid hitting them 21:11:12 <09gammafunk> worth noting that this aspect isn't exclusive to Hep, it's also a key element of Fedhas 21:12:24 <09gammafunk> so in a sense no uniqueness is being reduced, since it's something that two gods do extensively, but that doesn't necessarilly mean we want to expand that list 21:14:37 <04dracoomega> Sure, I realize Fedhas also does it. I mention Hep moreso because of the more direct comparison of "reliable reviving buddy who follows you around all the time" gods. Fedhas is rather more distinct in other ways from either of them. 21:15:21 Hey Gammafunk, how are you doing? 21:18:04 <09gammafunk> Not Nibiki. You're the author of the octopode tiles art, right? Long time no see! 21:18:20 <09gammafunk> er, meant to say "Not bad, Nibiki." sorry 21:19:50 Oh! I just drew a picture of one that you guys adopted as a loading screen. Actually going through my old work and seeing that made me remember, I never played him until he died or won and I've been wondering if he still exists on the server. :P 21:20:32 More out of curiosity. Wonder what he had and stuff. Not sure I'm brave enough to attempt continuing him. - u - 21:20:45 <09gammafunk> well, it does depend on which server you played 21:20:48 <09gammafunk> !lg nibiki x=src 21:20:49 <04Cerebot> 37. [src=cbro] Nibiki the Covert (L10 OpBr of Dithmenos), slain by a killer bee on D:7 (eino_jars) on 2019-12-26 04:46:37, with 4133 points after 9076 turns and 2:07:33. 21:20:59 <09gammafunk> !lg * cbr2 x=src 21:21:02 <04Cerebot> 1044163. [src=cbr2] rugberta the Grappler (L10 TrFi of Wu Jian), slain by a soul eater (kmap: serial_demonic_f) on D:8 on 2024-08-15 01:17:16, with 4251 points after 6416 turns and 0:19:24. 21:21:09 <09gammafunk> hrm, that one might be gone, sadly 21:21:11 But yeah, I don't remember my account password, and I don't remember which email was assoricated with it. 21:21:12 <09gammafunk> !lm nibiki x=src 21:21:13 <04Cerebot> 130. 2019-12-26 14:17:23 Nibiki the Slicer (L13 OpBr of Dithmenos) reached level 6 of the Lair of Beasts on turn 25853. (Lair:6) 21:21:31 It was a few years ago so I believe it. 21:21:32 <09gammafunk> right, that server was retired and a new server was put in its place, however it's possible the save was transfered 21:22:38 I've tried to register as Nibiki on the NYC server because I thought it was that one, and it's saying my name is already in use. 21:23:02 <09gammafunk> yeah, I used the cbr2 db (which was imported from cbro itself) 21:23:22 <09gammafunk> so I can reset that one if it's an email you still have access to 21:24:26 If it's an email like: nibiki@tigraphics.com or nibiki@protonmail.com I can still get to those. 21:24:42 <09gammafunk> ok, it's the former, will send you the reset link 21:25:07 <09gammafunk> and I can ask Zureal (cbr2 admin) to send you one for cbr2, where your save might still exist 21:29:17 Oh that'd be fun. Like I said I may not want to continue playing him much, kind of like that the idea he's still on his adventure. But if I could check out his gear and such, maybe practice on other characters first. 21:29:58 <09gammafunk> Nibiki: reset link sent for crawl.dcss.io (the NY server I run) and hopefully Zureal can eventually get you one for cbro.berotato.org (the new server that took over the old cbro) 21:30:48 Would it be possible to like acquire his save file? So I could have a local save of him? Maybe reload if he dies? x u x� I know it's not very roguelike but on a local private game it shouldn't bother anybody. 21:31:20 Okay great, thanks! 21:36:46 <09gammafunk> Nibiki: we don't have a way to give out save files, sadly. But looking at that game age, I'd strongly recommend you just start a new OpBr locally and happily save scum that one if you want. Not that we encourage save scumming, since you tend to learn less that way, but you're of course free to do it if you want! 21:37:34 <09gammafunk> It's just that the game has change a ton since 2019 and Dith even got a huge rework in trunk. But to play new dith you'd have to play trunk only or download a recent trunk build (or wait for the 0.32 release at the end of this month) 21:37:48 Yeah indeed. It was just because of the art I did of that guy, little sentimental. :> 21:37:52 <09gammafunk> but even ignoring dith, lots has changed 21:38:14 <09gammafunk> yeah, I think players really like that octopode art; it's one of the most popular species, so they like art depicting them 21:41:19 <09gammafunk> Nibiki: Well, Zureal tells me he's also sent you a reset link for cbr2, so you should get access to both accounts regardless. If you want to talk general dcss stuff, recommend you use the Roguelikes discord (I think you may have joined that?). This is the dev irc channel that we use for development-related discussion specifically 21:41:53 <09gammafunk> but if you do end up playing more dcss and want advice etc, Roguelikes discord is the place to be 21:42:07 I'm glad! You guys have made probably the best roguelike imo. Happy to contribute. And yeah, I've been listening to Dr. Incompetent's beginner guide and it sounds like a lot has changed. No hunger etc, will be interesting to see. 21:42:49 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2103-g414de441e9: Update some ancient documentation links 10(7 seconds ago, 1 file, 16+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/414de441e981 21:42:53 I did, I may see you on there. And thanks a lot for your help. 21:43:00 03regret-index02 07* 0.32-a0-2103-g414de441e9: Update some ancient documentation links 10(17 seconds ago, 1 file, 16+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/414de441e981 21:46:14 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-2104-g34a0b8a54a: Fix typo. 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/34a0b8a54a85 21:47:18 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-2104-g34a0b8a54a: Fix typo. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/34a0b8a54a85 23:05:10 Is that discord channel bridged anywhere that does not require proprietary malware to connect (like IRC)? 23:06:26 Why is the crawl-ref directory called that? What does the "ref" part mean? 23:08:20 <06pleasingfungus> i’m confused, sorry. are you saying irc is proprietary malware? 23:08:28 discord, I think 23:08:37 <06pleasingfungus> hm 23:08:40 irc was an example of something that isn't 23:08:41 <06pleasingfungus> i’m still confused 23:08:52 <06pleasingfungus> we’re talking via the bridge 23:09:16 <06pleasingfungus> is the question if this channel has more bridges than the one to irc? 23:09:21 I understood "that discord channel" to be #dcss 23:09:36 <06pleasingfungus> ahh 23:09:40 <06pleasingfungus> the convo above 23:09:41 <06pleasingfungus> ty 23:09:47 <06pleasingfungus> anyway, no. 23:10:43 <06pleasingfungus> the crawl-ref directory is many decades old . i might have once heard an explanation for its name, but i’ve since forgot it if so… 23:14:04 I suspect only peterb and greensnark know the actual story 23:16:07 <09gammafunk> was this some kind of standard thing for svn? 23:16:17 no 23:17:49 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-2105-gcb2735431a: Add another Xom ring slot message. 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cb2735431a84 23:17:59 <09gammafunk> as far as "ref" in "crawl-ref", I think it just means "reference" in the sense of it being authorative, but we're just not sure why this directory was used in the first place 23:18:15 03dolorous02 07* 0.32-a0-2105-gcb2735431a: Add another Xom ring slot message. 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cb2735431a84 23:18:46 <09gammafunk> I do sort of suspect it was something to do with an initial import to svn, although something about sourceforge is also ringing a bell here 23:19:43 <09gammafunk> It's called "Dungeon Crawl Reference" here, and it could have been something as silly as a name conflict on sourceforge with an existing project called "crawl" 23:19:52 <09gammafunk> we had the same problem initially on github 23:20:55 <09gammafunk> also, bad news everyone, we have some poor source forge reviews 23:20:56 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1273481521365385246/image.png?ex=66bec596&is=66bd7416&hm=18117efd32d9e4259041a501384325b650dd3b0864bbf8de3ea975c2b09203f4& 23:21:44 what doesn't make sense about that is that it's inside the repo 23:23:00 I always typoed that "sourceforget". ironic, considering 23:23:27 <09gammafunk> yeah they pretty much should rename the site to sourceforget.net 23:24:06 these days it's more like sourceforgotten 23:24:42 <09gammafunk> well, I do have to email greensnark about some things soonish possibly, so maybe I can remember to ask him if he remembers the sordid details of the crawl-ref directory 23:25:42 <09gammafunk> apparently we did official release announcements on sourceforget before we had CDO wordpress. These were simpler times 23:25:42 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/1273482726061641728/image.png?ex=66bec6b6&is=66bd7536&hm=37cd87ec8974a63f3154796b7189dd1d8a304c6ae20dbccd84794103a263fd7c& 23:26:24 <09gammafunk> Smarter monsters? I'm all for it 23:27:41 <09gammafunk> ...ooh. We also use the SF bug/patch tracker before we had e.g. mantis, and there's specifically a (very slow loading) feature request tracker https://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/feature-requests/ 23:27:55 <09gammafunk> bet there are some gems in those 26 pages 23:28:23 <09gammafunk> and the patch page has a Grue race implementation, going to merge it 23:29:26 <09gammafunk> > Adds a new race, notable for great close-combat ability, halved vision range, and a bad case of shoutitis. An attempt to help with the effort to further differentiate character races: the vision range change drastically changes how the player feels about ranged monsters (not as scary), exploration (much more food-consuming), and fast monsters (absolutely terrifying). 23:30:05 * geekosaur suspects it's going to be something silly like "had 4.0b26 in crawl-ref and snark and peter's versions beside it, merged stuff into it, realized they'd painted themselves into a corner because they'd lose history if they renamed it" 23:30:25 (only git and pijul handle renames, I think, certainly svn didn't)