00:21:17 <10PleasingFungus> if (fg.MIMIC_INEPT) this.draw_icon(icons.INEPT_MIMIC, x, y, undefined, undefined, img_scale); else if (fg.MIMIC) this.draw_icon(icons.MIMIC, x, y, undefined, undefined, img_scale); else if (fg.MIMIC_RAVEN) this.draw_icon(icons.RAVENOUS_MIMIC, x, y, undefined, undefined, img_scale); this is still in our codebase... 00:26:37 <09gammafunk> it's almost like 00:26:43 <09gammafunk> it would be a good idea 00:26:45 <09gammafunk> to remove.... 00:27:18 <09gammafunk> mimic raven is legit confusing though, what the heck is that 00:27:23 <10PleasingFungus> raven[ous] 00:27:26 <10PleasingFungus> i was confused too 00:27:26 <09gammafunk> hah 00:27:33 <10PleasingFungus> anyway i'm workin on it 00:27:36 <10PleasingFungus> rewriting our icons code 00:27:43 <09gammafunk> yeah duh, it does sort of say that right below 00:52:47 should the blind debuff impact EV as well? 01:11:00 Naruni (L1 MfBe) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:1) 01:11:17 physeK (L27 SpVM) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Depths:1) 01:11:38 judgestillwater (L10 MiBe) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:9) 01:11:49 Qwoki (L22 MiGl) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Depths:4) 01:12:29 judgestillwater (L10 MiBe) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:9) 01:12:34 Rhaal (L8 DrVM) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (D:5) 01:12:42 physeK (L27 SpVM) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Depths:1) 01:14:48 <09gammafunk> uh oh 01:15:24 <10PleasingFungus> cao ded 01:19:00 <09gammafunk> I uh 01:19:04 <09gammafunk> I think I killed it 01:19:07 <09gammafunk> with beem shenanigens 01:19:21 <09gammafunk> cao seems to be working now 01:29:03 03PleasingFungus02 07[fore] * 0.29-a0-530-gbd538c00ab: Store tile icons as a list 10(3 months ago, 13 files, 178+ 354-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bd538c00ab19 02:46:17 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c915 03:31:00 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4719-g50af30713d 06:22:42 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4719-g50af30713d 07:23:08 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus thoughts on Me: Fun! Felt v strong to me, maybe too strong? This is based on one game so don't take it too seriously. Never felt like I was in a "claw for progress" situation like in some cursed combos. 07:23:27 <12ebering> There are some awkward interactions between the zot clock and the branching nature of the dungeon that are unfun. 07:23:44 <12ebering> It's real lame to get touched by zot leaving lair with all three lair runes 10 steps from the stairs. Bad playfeel. 07:24:18 <12ebering> in general I found it hard to reason about how much "transit time" to leave 07:25:05 <12ebering> Also, on the S branches I dove, got the rune, then just "sagged out" clock, lookin around for items and loot until I was low on time. Felt against the spirit of the thing, even if I wasn't getting touched by zot. 07:25:34 <12ebering> I think this feel is the unreconcilable conflict between a tight clock and a branching dungeon 07:35:40 -!- ebering_ is now known as ebering 09:28:33 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering thanks for feedback! 09:28:51 <10PleasingFungus> i’ve been thinking a lot about branching 09:30:06 <10PleasingFungus> i spitballed the wild idea of giving em a ‘starstreak’ innate ability (at xl7?) that locks em in place for 20 turns and then sends em straight to any travelable loc 09:30:18 <10PleasingFungus> and then make G auto use that 09:30:43 <10PleasingFungus> doesn’t solve sagging admittedly 09:31:03 <12ebering> !lg . won -log 09:31:04 <04Cerebot> 121. ebering, XL26 MeWn, T:24240: https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/ebering/morgue-ebering-20220604-102305.txt 09:31:10 <12ebering> If you want to see the dump 09:32:30 <10PleasingFungus> fwiw, it’s not supposed to be cursed :p 09:32:42 <10PleasingFungus> well, maybe mede and meen are slightly cursed 09:32:48 <10PleasingFungus> but not that bad 09:33:26 <10PleasingFungus> i don’t really understand why people are so upset about the glow mut 09:34:16 <12ebering> ? 09:34:38 <12ebering> I’ve been out of the loop on the convo 09:34:55 <10PleasingFungus> oh, various players seem to feel strongly that it cripples the species 09:36:36 <12ebering> lol 09:36:41 <10PleasingFungus> i’m vaguely thinking about moving the stealth penalty out of backlit and into halo, since this is the only species that the distinction matters for 09:37:02 <12ebering> No! The stealth penalty is important for people who mess up their contam management 09:37:10 <10PleasingFungus> lol 09:37:14 <12ebering> And zot traps! 09:37:41 <10PleasingFungus> either way the glow isn’t core to species design, i just thought it was cute 09:37:53 <12ebering> v cute 09:37:55 <10PleasingFungus> so if i needed to i could cut it. but the flavor cost! 09:38:12 <12ebering> I think it works nice at making the stakes of “run into the black to heal” higher 09:38:35 <10PleasingFungus> because of the stealth? 09:39:14 <12ebering> Yeah, if you could be sneaky enough to guarantee a safe ish landing teleporting or otherwise flinging yourself into unexplored turf is a big heal 09:39:36 <12ebering> With a big stealth penalty it’s more of a gamble 09:39:47 <10PleasingFungus> good point i hadn’t considered! 09:40:03 <10PleasingFungus> accidentally stumbled into good design?? 10:54:53 <05kate> the return of portal spell????? 10:55:17 <05kate> (re: meteoran travel ability that PF mentioned earlier, for irc) 10:55:38 <05kate> sounds dangerously like controlled teleport also though, so probably not great on that front 10:56:53 <10PleasingFungus> lol 10:57:09 <10PleasingFungus> yes, Portal was my inspiration 10:57:24 <10PleasingFungus> i saw that spell when i started playing and thought it was So Cool 10:57:36 <10PleasingFungus> teleport across levels?!?!? whoa 10:57:44 <10PleasingFungus> don’t think i ever cast it 10:58:11 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, if it’s only travellable tiles, it seems fine…? 10:58:45 <10PleasingFungus> i guess you could use it to skip hazardous cloud loot vaults 10:58:49 <10PleasingFungus> big shrug 10:58:51 <05kate> how do you determine what's travellable? if you can teleport across a level (past a chokepoint full of enemies) that doesn't sound great 11:00:07 <05kate> even if it's purely going by "could you in theory autotravel to this tile" then that sounds like it would have many of the problems of ctele 11:01:17 <10PleasingFungus> i figured you'd pick a spot & confirm, then normal autotravel would look for a route, then if it found one you'd portal over after a 27 turn delay - so the 2nd thing probably 11:01:30 <10PleasingFungus> which issues did you have in mind? 11:01:53 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i guess that means it's basically mikee teleport..... 11:03:34 <10PleasingFungus> (my main issue with the idea is that it's weird and complicated & a hacky patch on top of the zot clock) 11:03:52 <10PleasingFungus> (but aside from that it sounds great to me!) 11:04:28 <05kate> if it's just going by there being a visible autotravel route then yeah, it'd let you map out tiles and then back off and teleport past things like you would have with cTele (except more reliably since the cost is just a few turns instead of having a chance to drop you in the wrong spot or use up consumables) 11:04:57 <05kate> free easy rune grabs followed by a random teleport out, etc 11:07:58 <10PleasingFungus> ohh, i thought of an even worse idea 11:07:59 <05kate> a version of it that's closer to the actual portal spell (where it just puts you on a staircase or something) sounds a lot safer but i think letting you teleport to arbitrary spots on the map is very risky 11:08:06 <10PleasingFungus> get this 11:08:39 <10PleasingFungus> idea 2: zot clock isn't consumed while autotraveling 11:08:56 <10PleasingFungus> wow the more i think about that the stinkier it is 11:09:03 how would that tie in with a magic map scroll? also does tele chheck landing square to see if it's occupied by a mob? 11:09:14 <05kate> haha yes, i was wondering if there was a second part to that but that seems sort of very bad unfortunately 11:09:15 the ctele part 11:09:48 <10PleasingFungus> in the old days, if ctele would land you on a guy, you'd get a completely random tele instead 11:10:19 <10PleasingFungus> lots of pan/hell rune vaults are still designed to make ctele rune ninjas less reliable 11:10:25 <10PleasingFungus> narrow spaces 11:10:57 <10PleasingFungus> anyway yeah maybe just going to stairs would be better 11:11:15 <05kate> gloorx rune being covered in demonic crawlers so you can't ctele onto it is a good one yeah 11:11:20 <05kate> if that's still a thing 11:11:29 <10PleasingFungus> lol 11:11:42 <10PleasingFungus> i hope so 11:13:12 <05kate> i think it tragically might not be any more, but it definitely was for a long time 11:14:16 Reminds me of Omega letting you cast Hellfire (which burned any monster to a greasy spot) out of LOS 11:14:52 <05kate> !vault evilmike_gloorx_vloq_box 11:14:52 <04Cerebot> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des#L1415 11:14:55 <05kate> it is! 11:15:03 <05kate> (just this one variation of the vault, but still) 11:15:28 !paste 11:16:00 what's the preferred paste service here? 11:16:47 <05kate> whatever works for you i think, don't think there's any standard one 11:17:42 Vehumet get a change in the offer tendencies or is he just being exceptionally spicy this game? https://bpa.st/raw/MOAQ 11:18:38 my magic skills are literally all spc and ice, not a single offer in ice 11:18:44 <05kate> don't think anything's changed, just unfortunate luck 11:19:07 didn't notice anything in changelog so yeah i guess so 11:19:59 and the last 4 have been fire based so it's like opposite day 11:20:35 <05kate> there's some slight weighting towards giving spells of elemental schools you have trained, but it's not overwhelmingly high iirc (and there's no reduction in weighting for untrained schools) 11:24:06 <10PleasingFungus> i always vaguely worry about making games too consistent/predictable/boring by increasing the weighting 11:24:18 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe it’d be nice? idk 11:26:50 <05kate> i think the low weighting is good, you already get wizardry to help cast things that you're branching out into and it's probably often better to pick up things in a couple of schools than it would be to just learn only fire spells just because you started as a FE 11:29:39 kate: isn't that more of a sif muna type approach? vehumet is supposed to let it end in hellfire! after all 11:30:43 aren't the gods intention is to help characters develop a certain playstyle? they are optional 11:31:02 <05kate> sure, they're still all direct damage spells, that's the playstyle 11:31:08 <12ebering> Veh gives you only spells and support to blaster caster 11:31:18 <05kate> fiery hellfire is just as acceptable to veh as icy hellfire 11:32:26 ebering: did you look at that skill / gift list i posted? I can't do jack all with his offerings. I have a -3 apt in fire 11:33:32 scorch sticky flame sure, ignite poison ok, starburst wtf 11:33:51 <05kate> sticky flame is still sticky flame with a -3 apt in fire. i don't think getting slightly unlucky on one particular character is meaningful in any way here 11:34:16 or maybe i'm looking at this wrong, i did pick a destructive magic god with a race that has terrible apt for elemental schools 11:34:17 <05kate> gods are fickle 11:42:56 <12ebering> Yeah veh is going to give you spells veh likes, expecting you to be a good acolyte 11:51:27 on the subject of portals, I wonder what it'd be like to have a "placeable" portal that you could for instance leave in Lair near your S branches and then use later on after you finish D:15 or whatever. 11:51:58 Something like single-use decent turn count to use so it's used for saving turns in navigation and not for combat stuff or something 11:55:30 <05kate> @PleasingFungus emergent interactions for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/v47fss/poorly_designed_interaction_between_different/ 11:56:04 <10PleasingFungus> lol that rules 11:56:31 <05kate> incredible posting 11:57:42 <10PleasingFungus> unbelievable power level 11:58:34 Account suspended 11:59:21 <10PleasingFungus> rip 12:22:40 Inner Flame best status effect 12:24:26 <06advil> neil is on a roll in that thread 12:29:39 The fact that you /can/ kill yourself with no enemies on the screen is great! :P 12:43:08 <10PleasingFungus> @Sastreii if you want another project, would you like to make some new monster status icons? existing ones are in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/misc/icons . each one is up to 11px wide and 11px high (though most are 6x11). thinner is better, since otherwise we run out of space on the tile to show all statuses. the statuses that i'd like are: - weak (does 2/3rds melee damage) - concentrated 12:43:09 venom (does asphyxiating curare damage instead of normal poison) - fire vulnerable (rF-) - waterlogged (throat full of water, can't cast) - simulacrumed (soul frozen, will turn into simulacrae on death) - dazed (1/4 chance to skip its turn) - antimagicked (variable chance to skip its turn) - repel missiles (halves accuracy of ranged attacks against it) - partially/fully charged (floating eye charging up to use paralysis) - injury bond (damage to allies 12:43:09 goes to it instead) - still winds (disabling all clouds) if you're interested, lmk! otherwise i'll do em myself - i've done a few before, in my typical style 😛 12:45:33 You can tell a floating eye is charging up?! 12:45:51 <10PleasingFungus> if you read the text, yeah 12:46:04 <10PleasingFungus> i want, uh, maybe a lil orb with a lightning bolt in it 12:46:11 <10PleasingFungus> like a half orb for partial charge and a full orb for full charge 12:50:26 <10PleasingFungus> like this?? 12:50:26 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/982687787209879663/charge-big.png 12:50:27 <10PleasingFungus> idk 12:51:43 <13Sastreii> Oh wow some of them may be really ticky to do Despite the fact that i’d like to see some pf art, ill give it a shot anyway 😜 12:52:02 <10PleasingFungus> thanks! yes, agree they're super tricky in the space 12:52:14 <10PleasingFungus> if you want to see PF art, check out, uh 12:52:44 <10PleasingFungus> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/misc/icons/fire_champ.png https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/misc/icons/anguish.png https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/misc/icons/slowly_dying.png 12:55:14 <13Sastreii> Ooooh so the wither icon is yours! 13:00:19 <10PleasingFungus> yeah lol 13:50:45 i just had to look at the key command list to see what '&' was. well done amethyst 14:00:37 another thing i've noticed with the changes of weapon types and which stat they get bonuses from. MF have +3 apt in polearms, which get bonus from str. however they have -3 arm so that's really hard to build an armored spear dude. they have +3 dodge, but that's based on dex. is this something to consider in the design or is there a better way to build a MF? (been trying to get my first MF win) 14:16:44 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 14:36:09 <10PleasingFungus> that’s been true forever, right? 14:36:40 <10PleasingFungus> like recent stat changes haven’t affected any of that 14:40:43 <13Sastreii> done 14:40:44 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/982715541531803688/Schermata_2022-06-04_alle_20.35.19.png 14:40:44 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/982715541741535333/status_icons.zip 14:59:02 <10PleasingFungus> wow, fast! 14:59:09 <10PleasingFungus> thank you! 14:59:46 <10PleasingFungus> these rule. love simulac and rf- especially 15:00:02 <10PleasingFungus> injury mirror is neat 16:28:09 FIQ (L14 DjCj) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 234: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Lair:4) 16:52:15 <10PleasingFungus> oops 16:52:15 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/982748641389334539/unknown.png 16:56:12 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-543-g05c506a3cf: Store tile icons as a list 10(3 months ago, 13 files, 178+ 354-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05c506a3cf96 16:56:12 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-544-g10a518f58f: Add many new status icons (Sastreii) 10(82 seconds ago, 16 files, 48+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/10a518f58f80 17:07:40 good feature imo 17:10:38 <10PleasingFungus> 🙂 17:16:49 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-544-g10a518f58f (34) 17:19:15 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-545-g1c0eb391a4: Fix sprint combo bans 10(50 seconds ago, 2 files, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c0eb391a42f 17:22:20 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-546-g3a238a73d9: End the terror of tentacle segment zombies 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3a238a73d9fa 17:22:52 <10PleasingFungus> make: *** No rule to make target 'tile-status-icons.h.cc', needed by 'tile-status-icons.h.o'. Stop. 17:22:53 <10PleasingFungus> hm 17:24:09 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-547-g8f12ed8835: Fix the build 10(10 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8f12ed883557 17:28:14 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-548-g32f4ba3753: Turn off explore_auto_rest for Meteorans 10(49 seconds ago, 2 files, 5+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/32f4ba37535f 17:29:33 <06advil> it might be better to change the default, rather than force it? 17:33:17 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-548-g32f4ba3753 (34) 17:34:06 <10PleasingFungus> i considered that but wasn't sure about the right way to implement it, and also figured that, worst case, people can just rest like they used to 17:34:13 <10PleasingFungus> it wasn't that hard! whippersnappers 17:35:22 <06advil> one clean approach would be to make it a true/auto/false option with auto as the default 17:35:28 <06advil> possibly overkill for this one case 17:36:04 <06advil> otherwise you can check whether the option has been explicitly set or not, it's a bit annoying to do right now 17:36:09 <06advil> maybe this is fine 17:36:46 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, you'd want true/auto/false, but i'm vaguely concerned about people setting it incorrectly... maybe that's fine 17:37:05 <10PleasingFungus> like, setting it true with other species in minds 17:37:17 <06advil> possibly some rc files explicitly set it from back before the default was changed, but caveat emptor 17:37:49 <06advil> you know I should have crashlogs print what rc include commands were used 17:37:58 <12ebering> why not do this with lua conditioned on species in dat/defaults/misc.txt 17:37:59 <12ebering> ? 17:38:27 <12ebering> like auto eat for ghouls used to be done 17:39:06 <06advil> well, I hate that that file exists so I would never recommend it, but I guess since it does that would be a good way to do it 17:39:29 <10PleasingFungus> sure, could do 17:39:31 <10PleasingFungus> also lol 17:51:55 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i guess the difference is that this approach still autorests for barbs 17:51:58 <10PleasingFungus> which seems reasonableish 17:59:22 03advil02 07* 0.29-a0-549-ge87547aa71: fix: move a bunch of option defaults out of dat/defaults 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e87547aa71c4 17:59:22 03advil02 07* 0.29-a0-550-g81e455f4c2: fix: prioritize non-removed species for species::from_str_loose 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 18+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/81e455f4c22b 18:02:34 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-550-g81e455f4c2 (34) 18:22:45 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.29-a0-550-g81e455f4c2 (34) 19:36:26 <10PleasingFungus> i'm fixing monster descriptions 19:48:00 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-551-gffc1d7fb78: Fix webtiles monster descriptions 10(8 minutes ago, 4 files, 16+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ffc1d7fb78b5 19:55:14 <06advil> Hm why did that break? I would have just expected it to do nothing 19:59:33 <10PleasingFungus> icons undefined 19:59:37 <10PleasingFungus> js error 19:59:54 <10PleasingFungus> in draw foreground 20:07:35 <10PleasingFungus> &versions 20:07:44 <04Cerebot> CAO: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c, CBR2: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c915, CDO: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c915, CKO: 0.29-a0-550-g81e455f4c2, CPO: 0.29-a0-550-g81e455f, CUE: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c915, CWZ: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c915, CXC: 0.29-a0-542-g075992c915, LLD: 0.28.0-53-g5a82cb258f 20:11:03 no too much breakage, it seems 20:11:09 just the usual fast rebuild servers 20:12:10 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-551-gffc1d7fb78 (34) 20:15:19 <10PleasingFungus> yep 21:38:35 <10PleasingFungus> proposal: - new concept of "item type sets". eg wands of para/charm/mindburst: in any given game, only one type will spawn (incl in vaults) - new alternates for existing types: /acid alternates with /light (damage + blinding) and /disruption (damage + daze); /iceblast alternates with /magma, etc 21:40:29 <10PleasingFungus> vaguely concerned about this messing with artificer start too much 22:18:41 I like that. The giant collection of wands has often felt weird to me (though maybe that's just because I don't know when to use certain wands situationally? E.g., I found out not too long ago that you're "supposed" to use fire wands for electric eels.) 22:31:33 <10PleasingFungus> emergent uses! 23:00:57 <09gammafunk> IA uses a similar system for scrolls (in IA scrolls cast the spell at a higher power and for free, but also memorize the spell for you to cast with your magic point), with the modification that it instead greatly downweights the out-of-set spells to a low weight, making it still possible but unlikely you'd find, at least for a given out-of-set scroll 23:01:27 <09gammafunk> I'm surprised you didn't mention evocable items first, since they almost seem a better candidate for this, but I guess there are not quite as many of those 23:01:38 <09gammafunk> evocable items as in non-wands 23:03:31 <09gammafunk> if there are alternates though, like if we get to the point of actually making those, they should be as different as they can be from their counterpart while doing the same general function. I think you were getting at that with your proposal of /acid | /light 23:03:52 <09gammafunk> hrm, in some sense having the alternates may default the goal here 23:04:10 <09gammafunk> I guess it depends on how these sets work 23:05:47 <09gammafunk> presumably though we'd not want the set to be that you get e.g. either iceblast or magma, since that probably achieves little in terms of limiting "inventory bloat" or interesting decisions 23:16:39 <10PleasingFungus> i forgot about evocables 23:16:53 <10PleasingFungus> fair point about those 23:16:57 <10PleasingFungus> i don't quite understand your last sentence 23:18:19 <10PleasingFungus> are you saying magma wouldn't be meaningfully different from iceblast? i think that's fair, unless there's some way for it to target differently - maybe it targets walls and does a magma explosion out of them, or something 23:18:33 <10PleasingFungus> i was also vaguely considering some kind of sticky flame effect as an alternate 23:35:15 I like the different evocables since they do vastly different things. Wands are just "shoot blob of stuff at thing" in comparison. 23:45:32 <09gammafunk> yeah, the premise being that iceblast and magma might be too similar to each other, but as you say one could design alternates to achieve different things