00:53:49 New branch created: nick.flame_wave (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/nick.flame_wave 00:53:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-317-ga319f34e58: New spell: Scorch (L2 Fire) 10(2 days ago, 10 files, 143+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a319f34e5890 00:53:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-318-gb43a314259: Add Scorch to FE and CA 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b43a314259ab 00:53:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-319-gc546aee728: New Spell: Flame Wave (L4 Fire/Conj) 10(3 days ago, 19 files, 215+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c546aee7282f 00:53:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-320-g909c6f8a6e: Update FE spell list 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/909c6f8a6e9e 01:04:02 New branch created: pull/2106 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2106 01:04:02 Branch pull/2106 updated to be equal with nick.flame_wave: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2106 01:34:35 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-379-gf8c7cfddd9 (34) 01:36:36 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-380-g6a4b6a32f9: feat: downgrade Fighters to a buckler 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6a4b6a32f983 01:37:31 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-381-g937acc2988: fix: clarify Manifold Assault description 10(13 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/937acc298872 01:53:55 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-381-g937acc2988 (34) 01:55:43 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-381-g937acc2988 02:53:50 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-381-g937acc2988 03:01:54 ??rtorm 03:01:55 torment resistance[1/1]: Each level of rN reduces torment's damage by 10%, so at rN+++ you'll only lose 35% of your HP. In addition, demonspawn can get a torment resistance mutation (50% chance of 0 damage), Kiku gives torment resistance (average protection 60%) at high piety, and Statue Form or being a gargoyle reduces torment damage by half. 03:02:21 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-381-g937acc2988 (34) 06:24:47 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4305-g797f4774c3 10:42:17 03ebering02 07* 0.28-a0-382-g33c4956463: fix: further tweak the Manifold Assault desc 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/33c49564636f 11:00:58 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-382-g33c4956463 (34) 11:17:50 I submitted a single vault as a pull request, as part of writing a tutorial for submitting vaults to Crawl. Unsurprisingly, it failed the linting check. Is there a way to run checkwhite on my fork at GitHub, or does it have to be done on my local repository and then pushed? 11:18:42 <12ebering> you could configure github actions for your fork. I do not know how much work this would be, certainly more than running util/checkwhite locally 11:22:17 what is the syntax for running it locally? Move into the util folder and run checkwhite -m filename? 11:23:28 <12ebering> if you cjust run util/checkwhite from the source directory it will do the right thing 11:23:36 OK 11:27:25 Now for the embarrassing part: my hope for this tutorial is that users not need to use local git to contribute. This is to remove the hurdle of learning Git from those who just want to submit a few vaults (and I'm not confident enough with Git yet to write a tutorial that way anyway). The workflow is: 11:27:40 1) Download offline Crawl from https://crawl.develz.org/download.htm 11:27:53 2) Edit local .des file and test locally. 11:28:08 3) Make a fork of crawl/crawl on GitHub 11:28:20 4) edit the same .des file online on your fork 11:28:27 5) make the pull request 11:28:48 <12ebering> that's a fine workflow 11:29:07 <12ebering> imo I wouldn't worry so much about checkwhite (other than mentioning that their tests might fail because of it) 11:29:08 It looks to me that util/checkwhite does use Git, though 11:29:18 <12ebering> yes 11:29:28 <12ebering> util/checkwhite needs the repository, not just an install 11:29:44 <12ebering> but, for your target audience, the devteam is happy to do the source clean up to help onboard new vaults contributors 11:31:34 That is what I was hoping for. I have a section about feedback the devs might give as part of the submission request, so that's a good spot to say that if you get errors about "linting" or "checkwhite", don't worry about them, the Dev Team will clean that up for you 11:33:13 <12ebering> hm: in your workflow, you should add: step 3.5) make a branch in your repo (link to appropriate github), one branch per pull request 11:33:19 <12ebering> and step 4) should be edit the .des file in that branch 11:33:38 <12ebering> and then add a link to https://docs.github.com/en/github/collaborating-with-pull-requests/working-with-forks/syncing-a-fork 11:34:03 <12ebering> and info that for future pull requests, switch to master, sync it, then make the new branch 11:34:37 OK. Yeah in my PR from last night I did the edit in master, though I did see the option to create a new branch when I made the commit. 11:37:11 Online vs local branches is still a topic I'm fuzzy on. Pinkbeast's suggestion to read Pro Git was really fruitful. I have a good grasp I think on how branching works locally. I think I want to make a parallel branch structure at origin and then push from local branch to same origin branch. 11:37:50 then checkout the origin branch to make the PR 11:38:55 <12ebering> yes, you can do thaat 11:39:04 <12ebering> or, if you first make the local branch 11:39:12 <12ebering> when you push to origin the first time 11:39:30 <12ebering> you can, with the git push command, cause the remote (origin) to create a branch with the same name 11:39:40 <12ebering> and this will appear in the github web ui for you to make a pull request with 11:40:03 <12ebering> (this is for your enlightenment, not for your guide which I understand is aimed at helping people contribute without local git) 11:40:37 <12ebering> oh, also, in the workflow, they should download the latest trunk build of offline crawl 11:40:45 <12ebering> and update that frequently 11:40:47 Yes I appreciate this and am on the same page with the two audiences. 11:41:43 Oh good call on the trunk download. But then I'd need to teach how to compile, right? IF we are only editing data files, isn't downloading the latest stable doable? 11:42:11 <12ebering> no, there are trunk binaries available for download 11:42:26 <12ebering> and we wouldn't want to deprive them of new monsters etc! 11:42:34 Oh, I didn't know that. 11:42:48 <12ebering> https://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ 11:43:26 oh that's great. I only knew of the /download.htm page 11:43:48 <12ebering> we should probably update the links on that page 11:44:00 <12ebering> at minimum to not point at sourceforge 11:44:24 Down at the bottom near the links to source would be the place to advertise the trunk binaries 11:46:05 Well I need to get to work. I'm thankful for your advice and your support of my tutorial. Here is a link to it: https://www.overleaf.com/read/vrygjmvjrgbx (I wanted to learn Beamer so I used that) 11:47:00 -!- MakMorn_ is now known as MakMorn 11:53:46 <10PleasingFungus> mainiacjoe: down at the bottom near the links to source is where we advertise them! 11:53:52 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/882654498328305724/unknown.png 11:54:20 03ebering02 07[dexterswizlab] * 0.28-a0-339-ga4a0bcb135: fix: tweak degenerations console colour 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a4a0bcb135cd 11:54:22 Branch pull/2072 updated to be equal with dexterswizlab: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2072 12:10:56 04Build failed for 08dexterswizlab @ a4a0bcb1 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1190877589 12:53:25 PleasingFungus: I see the link to the Trunk Builds now, silly me. I was all the way down at the bottom, "Source Code to compile DCSS yourself" 13:16:15 <10PleasingFungus> ahh 13:16:28 <10PleasingFungus> there are many links on that page 13:23:48 Yes, and I didn't read carefully 13:31:41 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-382-g33c4956 (34) 13:31:56 <08nicolae> that's how they get ya. the dcss devs are always trying to get you to read. not me, though 13:44:04 <06advil> we have too many links and bits of info 13:44:19 <06advil> I was stamping out references to freenode for weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if there are still some somewhere 14:00:04 One of the things I wanted to contribute this version was adjustng Wanderer so that in addition to reporting starting equipemnt and spells in the morgue, it also report starting stats and skills levels. Now that Hellmonk is working on a Wn overhaul, what is the best way to ask him to consider making this change also (seeing how it would take me a 14:00:04 lot more work to figure out how to do it). Woudl leaving a comment on his PR be appropriate, or a DM somehow? 14:01:34 <12ebering> pr comment is fine 14:01:34 <12ebering> but! It shouldn't be to hard 14:01:34 <12ebering> you just need to find where ng-wanderer.cc uses the function take_note and extend it appropriately 14:01:34 <12ebering> since by the time the note is taken the skills and stats are settled too 14:04:27 well all the C I know is from code diving Crawl and piecing things together, so that's the how taking a bit of time. The other missing piece is which objects to inspect e.g. I can pseudocode "player.strength" but what it actually is, that takes me a while to track down. or which 14:05:39 but just now I learned "take_note" so that's another bit learned 14:38:37 03ebering02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-321-g4e84af8a0c: fix: add flame wave to all of the wait plumbing 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e84af8a0cb4 14:38:38 Branch pull/2106 updated to be equal with nick.flame_wave: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2106 14:41:51 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering ty for fixes! will respond to your thoughtful scorch feedback in a bit 14:41:52 <12ebering> I told you I had a chart! 14:41:56 <10PleasingFungus> haha 14:44:01 <05kate> messing a bit with flame wave, it looks pretty neat but fireball-level damage feels probably a bit too high, fireball's already very efficient damage for L5. i think it'd also be much better to make the channeling cost 1 per turn and balance around that 14:45:13 <05kate> since otherwise channeling starts getting increasingly arbitrary (and it makes brilliance more complicated by now affecting things other than up-front spell costs), 1 mp per turn/instance is consistent across searing ray, pproj and dragoncall at least 14:50:18 <05kate> i think it's probably also a case where it'd be better not to have veh affect range, like with hailstorm where it's not really comparable to a normal range increase 14:52:57 <10PleasingFungus> agreed that fball damage is too high 14:53:03 <10PleasingFungus> i kept going back and forth on it 14:53:36 <10PleasingFungus> was thinking of pulling back to ignition damage (10 + pow/3 instead of +pow/2) 14:53:50 <10PleasingFungus> could also try a lower base 14:54:28 <10PleasingFungus> it felt a bit odd since fulminant prism and hailstorm both do more damage than fball at around 40 power (as other 2-school L4 spells), but they both have other constraints that are maybe worse than flame wave's? 14:55:25 <10PleasingFungus> i was worried that 1 mp/turn wouldn't be a significant enough channeling cost; agreed about the complexity concerns (and brilliance affecting it is a very unnecessary flourish even if we did go with 2 mp...) 14:56:16 <10PleasingFungus> i think this is the ignition damage version 14:56:17 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/882700405321125898/unknown.png 14:56:44 <10PleasingFungus> hm, maybe i changed it to ignition damage and forgot to update the commit desc? 14:57:23 <05kate> i think it's still at fireball levels in the PR 14:57:25 <10PleasingFungus> yeah 14:57:29 <10PleasingFungus> just must've been an old build or something 14:57:53 <05kate> but yeah, i think it is a pretty strict targeting constraint so probably fine for it to stay fairly efficient 14:59:15 <05kate> but nudging it down a bit would hopefully push you more into wanting to start casting it with monsters already next to you to get as much as possible out of it, which seems like a good thing to encourage 14:59:42 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-322-gc6ad74fc02: Tweak flame wave damage down somewhat 10(39 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c6ad74fc02bf 14:59:44 Branch pull/2106 updated to be equal with nick.flame_wave: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2106 15:00:00 <10PleasingFungus> vaguely think higher channeling costs also encourage that? 15:01:00 <05kate> possibly, i just think it'd be better to go with simplicity there and use the other balance knobs instead 15:01:13 <10PleasingFungus> hm 15:01:23 <10PleasingFungus> i also would like to keep veh range extension 15:01:41 <10PleasingFungus> it's sort of unfortunate that many of our new spells are unaffected by veh 15:02:09 <10PleasingFungus> and having to channel for several turns beforehand to get the extra range seems like it makes the effect less powerful than it would be for hailstorm 15:02:20 how unreasonable would it be, for you to be able to start channeling other spells while channeling, and then they both tick? 15:02:30 <10PleasingFungus> pretty unreasonable 😛 15:03:03 <05kate> i guess veh does work on stuff like dazzling flash and IMB, so it's not a huge break in terms of consistency, more just the duration change that'd be a new thing 15:03:06 <10PleasingFungus> makes the behavior much more complicated (you must hit . or cast one of these specific other spells) and makes them much more powerful 15:03:37 <10PleasingFungus> i was thinking of having something in the spell description describe how it worked if you followed veh (& had the passive) 15:03:54 <05kate> and agreed that it's probably not really a balance issue like it would be for hailstorm, so probably it's reasonable yeah 15:03:59 <10PleasingFungus> automatically added if those conditions held, i guess 15:04:21 <10PleasingFungus> it's nice in that the range thing is an implicit/emergent effect rather than something explicitly specified 15:04:34 <10PleasingFungus> anyway i can also cut the brilliance effect on mp channel cost but am still torn on cutting it to 1 mp 15:04:40 <10PleasingFungus> simplicity and consistency are good 15:05:20 <10PleasingFungus> but other goals (wanting to discourage people spending too much time channeling it against max range enemies, since that's kind of fiddly; making veh range extension not too strong) are helped with higher channel mp costs 15:05:27 <10PleasingFungus> could i guess have something where the wider waves are weaker...? 15:05:43 <10PleasingFungus> so you start with closer to fireball damage and drop down as it gets wider..? 15:08:20 could have veh just boost the range of the second dose of flame wave, instead of adding a bonus third dose 15:10:01 <05kate> i feel like it'd still be fairly inefficient to cast against max range enemies a bunch at 1mp per channel, you'd be throwing away a big majority of the mp investment to do nothing 15:11:03 <05kate> maybe you'd want to do that if like, a group is approaching you and you want to hit a bunch of things? but would it really be that effective to pre-emptively flame wave over like, scorching twice against a single enemy? 15:16:50 -!- Guest99 is now known as wreck_ 15:39:59 -!- bgiannan4 is now known as bgiannan 15:43:08 <10PleasingFungus> throwing away a majority feels like the wrong way to think about it 15:44:30 <10PleasingFungus> is it worth spending 6 mp and 3 turns to get one solid hit? 15:44:42 <10PleasingFungus> idk 15:45:35 <10PleasingFungus> maybe not 15:45:47 <10PleasingFungus> 8 vs 6 mp also not a huge difference 16:01:13 -!- ProzacElf is now known as DealsElf 17:13:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-323-gc357e4ff38: Cut channel cost to 1 (kate) 10(17 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c357e4ff383d 17:13:40 Branch pull/2106 updated to be equal with nick.flame_wave: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2106 18:14:21 <05kate> hmm, i wonder if flame wave addition would also be a good time to remove bolt of magma, as one of the last leftover bolts? since fire is already pretty heavy on L4-6 damage spells (sticky flame, fireball, bolt of magma, starburst, plus flame wave) - which fits fine for the school but i think even with one of those gone it'd have more than any other element 18:14:31 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.28-a0-383-g08d601b168: New spell: Scorch (L2 Fire) 10(3 days ago, 10 files, 143+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08d601b16828 18:14:31 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.28-a0-384-g9e0c098162: Add Scorch to FE and CA 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9e0c098162dd 18:14:34 Branch pull/2098 updated to be equal with master: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2098 18:14:35 <05kate> and earth magic has the much cooler BVC in that slot, too 18:16:06 <05kate> also nice, excited to test those out properly in trunk 18:19:17 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-385-g6e761fd89a: New Spell: Flame Wave (L4 Fire/Conj) 10(4 days ago, 20 files, 217+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e761fd89a57 18:19:17 03PleasingFungus02 07[nick.flame_wave] * 0.28-a0-386-g7f507ee5f2: Update FE spell list 10(17 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7f507ee5f2f2 18:23:39 <10PleasingFungus> flame wave not going in quite yet, still want to poke it slightly more and get a little more feedback 18:23:45 <10PleasingFungus> but pretty soon 18:23:47 <10PleasingFungus> i expect 18:24:06 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-382-g33c4956463 (34) 18:24:26 <10PleasingFungus> hm, where's that leave earth? 18:24:32 <10PleasingFungus> iron shot at 6, LRD at 5 18:24:40 <10PleasingFungus> probably fine then 18:24:52 <10PleasingFungus> sad to remove magma after all those buffs 18:24:59 <10PleasingFungus> and two different races that are actually good with it! 18:28:16 <05kate> yeah, i think between iron shot, lrd and BVC earth would be fine 18:29:02 PF: dennys and which other species? 18:29:16 <10PleasingFungus> grassy knolls! 18:29:31 <10PleasingFungus> i assume that dennys are gin rummies 18:29:39 <05kate> i've always been a defender of bolt of magma in terms of like, it being a perfectly good power level and a reasonable thing to pick up, but i don't think it competes with all the neat positional stuff in terms of design, and lightning bolt seems like the case where that kind of bolt spell was being more intentionally kept around 18:29:44 <10PleasingFungus> fair 18:29:53 <10PleasingFungus> bolt of magma... the forgotten stepchild 18:31:24 oh right gnolls 19:01:39 04Build failed for 08nick.flame_wave @ 7f507ee5 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1192018823 19:17:00 <08nicolae> what about something else of magma 19:17:25 <08nicolae> what if it actually created magma... 19:18:18 <09hellmonk> lee's rapid deconstruction of magma 19:19:07 <09hellmonk> tbh I like, conceptually, the idea of having an earth/fire spell. seems good to have school crossover stuff like that 19:19:31 <09hellmonk> so clearly the solution is to make flame wave level 4 fire/earth and do magma damage 19:20:32 It would be nice to have something below level 9 with magma damage, as I like having a fire spell I can kill molten gargoyles with. 19:21:46 <08nicolae> magma flow. creates temporary puddles of lava that flow towards a given target pyroclastic bolt. choose a wall and then choose a monster within LOS of that wall. the wall shoots a bolt of magma at the monster on your behalf. get around monsters/statues in the way of LOS 19:29:20 <09gammafunk> fire using characters are nearly always training conj, so they typically have another spell to kill things like molten gargoyles 19:30:34 <08nicolae> 19:45:35 you wouldn't dare 19:50:20 <08nicolae> q: encompass vaults for Hells:1-6 have to fit within the 40x35 size, right 20:36:06 Can scrolls of acquirement be mimics? I feel like I've never seen items as mimics, and that might be funny for an early-game vault on any of those rare consumables. 20:37:28 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-384-g9e0c098162 (34) 21:08:06 <08nicolae> item mimics used to exist but i don't think they do anymore 21:09:12 <08nicolae> oh, they still do 21:09:32 <08nicolae> i think these days item mimics only get used for runes 21:09:43 <10PleasingFungus> and funny vaults 21:09:51 <08nicolae> yes 21:10:03 <08nicolae> sadly you can't put item mimics in shops :pensibr: 21:10:06 <10PleasingFungus> funny vaults are the most important thing in crawl 21:10:07 <10PleasingFungus> lol 21:10:14 <10PleasingFungus> that’s depraved 21:10:21 <08nicolae> i know! they should let me do that 21:10:44 <10PleasingFungus> a vault with low greed, 5 mimics & one real item? 21:11:00 <08nicolae> reverse of russian roulette... 21:11:02 <10PleasingFungus> nicolae did you see my lava mimic vault? 21:11:11 <08nicolae> the leap of faith one? yes! not in person 21:11:24 <10PleasingFungus> never heard from anyone getting it 21:11:28 <10PleasingFungus> v proud tho 21:11:31 <08nicolae> it's a good 'un 21:12:34 <08nicolae> i'll make a room where everything is a mimic - features, walls, doors - except for the xom vault in the middle 21:13:55 <10PleasingFungus> wow 21:14:35 I love funny vaults 21:15:23 Hmm... should boots of rampaging when used to move towards a monster from two spaces away (e.g., two blank squares between you and them) give you a WJC lunge? 21:15:49 Currently if you rampage with WJC at that distance you move adjacent to the monster in one turn, but they get a free hit 21:32:49 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2104 * 0.28-a0-386-gb6833c0850: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(73 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b6833c0850e8 21:40:05 <10PleasingFungus> perryprog: currently that’s an intentional no 21:40:24 <10PleasingFungus> iirc discussion on the original pr 21:40:35 OP movement basically? 21:41:02 <10PleasingFungus> that was the feeling, though i’m unconvinced 21:42:01 I mean, WJC survivability is pretty "meh" from what I've experienced, but there are good benefits in there too—it just seems weird that rampage would give a direct downside if you don't have something like acrobat to protect from being hit while moving 21:45:58 <10PleasingFungus> is there that much rampage? is wu that strong? etc 21:46:46 <10PleasingFungus> the problem with this idea is you obviously have to rename the spell to ‘volcanic eruption’ and then it can’t be a L4 spell 21:47:11 I don't follow 21:47:20 <09hellmonk> can only be cast on shafts, can upgrade to cast on wall like lrd 21:47:37 ah 21:48:37 <08nicolae> Lava Burp 21:49:02 <10PleasingFungus> perry: sorry, was replying to hellmonk (doesn’t show up across the irc bridge) 21:49:23 <10PleasingFungus> lol @ both suggestions 21:50:25 I second Lava Burp 21:51:09 PF: Wouldn't have this problem if you used IRC like a normal hippe 21:51:16 hippie* 21:52:28 <09gammafunk> > WJC survivability is pretty "meh" from what I've experienced this isn't accurate, serpent's lash is a strong escape ability, and heavenly storm creates clouds on demand, also useful for stopping various ranged attacks. Wu's current strength is better than pre-duel Okawaru 21:52:49 <09gammafunk> I wonder about BoM removal 21:53:26 <10PleasingFungus> you wonder? 21:53:42 <09gammafunk> I just...wonder.... 21:54:10 <08nicolae> Burst of Magma. make it smite targeted and have a chance to make temp. lava under the target and adjacent squares. it's three schools 21:54:40 <09gammafunk> can we get a 4th school? 21:54:44 <08nicolae> tmut 21:55:22 gammafunk—the issue is that heavenly storm is the only ability that actually offers the survivability for moving out in the open (what WJC encourages), and even then, you're constantly going to be peppered with damage. I feel like it encourages fighting and moving in the open, but the reward is "more damage" not "more surviving" and that's exemplified the longer you spend out in the open. 21:55:24 <08nicolae> Fire/Ice/Earth/Air spell, Elemental Medley, does all kinds of shit 21:55:33 <09hellmonk> summon active volcano (l5 sum/tloc/earth/fire/conj) 21:57:38 <09gammafunk> generally when people talk about something like "surviveabilty" they mean "does this god help you stay alive", not how does it help you fight in a certain way (e.g. "out in the open). serpent's lash is also good when fighting out in the open because you get increased martial move damage and you get to make hits without taking damage. But on the note of just "surviving", the god does give you that 21:58:18 <09gammafunk> The concern about lunge w/rampage is about overall strength of the god (would it make it too strong, giving too much easy damage) as well as clarity of player expectation and design 21:58:46 I mean it encourages you to fight in a certain way that /requires/ survivability due to being out in the open, yet WJC gives very little of that for sustained fights in the open 21:58:47 <09gammafunk> as far as the combat playstyle, including "big open fights", the god currently achieves that well 21:59:00 <08nicolae> Air/Conj/Earth/Fire/Hex/Ice/Necro/Pois/Summ/Tloc/Tmut. The Kitchen Sink. everything in los gets blasted with all kinds of elemental damage, a half dozen hexes, anything that dies comes back as a zombie, and you summon a malign tentacle 21:59:09 <09gammafunk> the key is to use serpent's lash liberally (like you use oka's hero) and heavenly storm when you need it 21:59:11 And for the record, WJC is by far my favorite god. I think they're /really/ well designed. :) 21:59:26 Fair enough. I think there's also an aspect of me gitting gud. 21:59:29 (I am not) 22:00:48 <09gammafunk> oh dang 22:00:50 <09gammafunk> is it happening 22:02:13 Huh, just realized acrobat doesn't trigger if a retaliate effects fires (e.g., horns)—is this intentional to prevent being able to get ridiculously high EV and be able to wait until you horn someone to death, or was it an oversight? 22:03:55 so fire users don't need BoM cuz they can use OoD, and earth users simply don't come up against a resistance problem? 22:06:43 <09gammafunk> it's not only ood, but any pure conj spell, and they can use, say, earth/conj spells as well if they want. extremely common for FE to train a little earth for some iron shot, but it works for something like stone arrow if that was the best option found 22:07:17 <09gammafunk> it's just that because so many fire spells also use conj, they are more likely to have any outside-school either fully (pure conj) or partly (Other/Conj) trained 22:14:52 <09gammafunk> oh interesting, branch gets marked as merged but it's only partially merged 22:16:07 <10PleasingFungus> huh? 22:17:50 gdb seems to be hanging much more often after my upgrade to buster 22:24:05 never mind, I see, the L2 branch was fully merged, but what confused me is that the L4 PR seems to have been closed despite a lack of merge 22:24:28 I suppose that's...because the PR was trying to merged into the L2 spell's branch, and not master? 22:24:50 the PR vs branch state is just a bit confusing 22:51:08 New branch created: delightfullyreddevilish (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/delightfullyreddevilish 22:51:08 03hellmonk02 07[delightfullyreddevilish] * 0.28-a0-385-g0ad3c213c0: feat: rework red devils 10(10 minutes ago, 6 files, 42+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ad3c213c0cd 22:56:16 New branch created: pull/2110 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2110 22:56:16 Branch pull/2110 updated to be equal with delightfullyreddevilish: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2110 23:33:52 <10PleasingFungus> gammafunk: the flame wave pr closed because it was based on the scorch branch, and i deleted that branch 23:34:01 <10PleasingFungus> it’s a slightly annoying github behavior 23:34:35 <09gammafunk> yeah I finally sort of pieced together that this was probably what happened 23:34:51 <09gammafunk> I got ready to hype the L4 spell when I saw the PR for that one was closed, but alas false alarm 23:38:45 <09gammafunk> for the hype vid, do you want the soundtrack to be darude - sandstorm, Party Rock, or Billy Joel (thematic option) 23:45:51 <08nicolae> for Flame Wave? 23:53:31 <09gammafunk> Flame Wave is my favorite megaman weapon