01:34:40 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1529-g1e82c303ef (34) 01:55:54 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1529-g1e82c303ef 02:20:42 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1529-g1e82c303ef (34) 02:54:00 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1529-g1e82c303ef 03:31:24 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4217-g7c68dc2372 10:13:48 <06advil> That should be basically fine as long as the number of items is the same, though I'm not entirely certain 10:15:30 <06advil> a way to check would be to force this vault to place on D:1 and run the seed stability test with a lot of iters 12:46:24 <09gammafunk> ok 13:06:20 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1529-g1e82c30 (34) 13:06:31 <09gammafunk> I tried to read through the rng guide to see if that would be a problem, so maybe if it does turn out to be one, can put that in an example of what not to do 13:07:10 <09gammafunk> i suppose we know for sure that doing a condition like that and making a random result that does involve making a different number of samples between the condition would cause a problem 13:07:20 <09gammafunk> so maybe I could add that to the examples either way 13:08:00 <09gammafunk> hrm, actually, how does that work for vaults that veto based on you.unrand checks? 13:08:18 <09gammafunk> ah, that's not relevant with pregen 13:08:51 <09gammafunk> pregen solves all the issues like that where player decision could influence vault palcement 13:10:14 <09gammafunk> hrm, but then doesn't that imply that those types of conditions are essentially useless? 13:12:49 <09gammafunk> I suppose they're not in that they're valid during pregeneration, but then they don't quite do what the vault author probably intended either. The vault author is assuming that the player won't see a vault that veto conditions on you.uniques if the condition is met, but this isn't the case. Oh, but never mind, the player can't actually acquire an item that generated during pregen as a result of one 13:12:49 of those conditions 13:14:10 <09gammafunk> It does sort of assume that the unrand checked in the condition is actually placed by the map checking the condition. If the map just checked for an unrand but didn't actually place it, like if it for some reason didn't want to place a vault if ignorance shield had generated, but that vault didn't place ignorance shield, then the vault's assumptions wouldn't be met 13:14:18 <09gammafunk> But that would be a weird type of vault to exist 15:36:32 03kate-02 07[single_combat] * 0.27-a0-1509-g3e8f6ef9d8: Don't allow Duel to identify Mara/rakshasa clones for free 10(41 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3e8f6ef9d8b7 15:36:32 03kate-02 07[single_combat] * 0.27-a0-1510-ge93c85a71a: Fix Duel handling when other monsters in the Arena die 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e93c85a71a52 15:36:32 03kate-02 07[single_combat] * 0.27-a0-1511-gbe1243e8ad: Require killing bennus permanently for a duel victory 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 20+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be1243e8ad22 15:44:00 <05kate> current known issues list is approximately "aaaagh slime creatures and also starcursed masses" 15:44:54 <05kate> i think probably the correct behaviour is to let them split and require killing all targets to win but i'm not looking forward to figuring out how to make that work 15:47:13 <10PleasingFungus> props to you! 15:51:14 yeah I really want to rework TRJ to use a sane splitting mechanic like that used by starcursed masses and/or slime creatures 15:51:30 so we don't have to have the weird no-xp-kill situation 17:54:47 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 18:22:53 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-1529-g1e82c303ef (34) 18:27:27 kate-, I have a question. You recently commited_"Prevent repeating Nemelex Stack Five and Triple Draw". I still tried repeating it: "You fail to use your ability. _You fail to use your ability. _You can't repeat Stack Five." The first repeat command happily failed. The second result in "can't repeat". If I get it right, I rolled a success there. So the question is: if I use Stack Five manually now, do I have 100% chance of success? 18:27:28 I.e. does "can't repeat" cancel my successful roll or not? 18:30:20 <05kate> there's no state that gets saved between attempts, so trying again would just be a fresh roll 18:30:46 I see 19:28:29 03kate-02 07[single_combat] * 0.27-a0-1512-gfbadeae3ba: Fix Duel handling against merging/splitting monsters 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 24+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fbadeae3bad1 20:01:23 03kate-02 07[single_combat] * 0.27-a0-1513-g66f05e184f: Let multiple targets chase after abandoning a duel 10(4 minutes ago, 4 files, 20+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66f05e184f91 20:01:44 <05kate> currently feeling exceedingly powerful for noticing this absurd edge case 20:04:18 <10PleasingFungus> lol 20:04:19 <10PleasingFungus> excellent 20:04:42 <10PleasingFungus> you are the champion… my friend 20:06:41 <06advil> I don’t think there should be any remaining vaults that do this? Right now placing an unrand should be viewed as a request, and a fallback randart may replace it for all sorts of reasons 20:08:26 <09gammafunk> yeah, you're right, there's none that vetoes, but there is minmay_shop_mayhem, which modifies its shop contents based no you.unrands 20:10:51 <09gammafunk> I'm not sure how shop content lists differ from something like item or monster equipment defs in terms of seed stability, but that shop vault is a somewhat similar idea to what I'm doing. However I notice that it doesn't try to place the same number of items regardless of the condition, so possibly that vault could cause an issue? 20:12:04 <09gammafunk> Regarding my original musings, though, I guess we in practice just wouldn't veto on a condition like that and would try to design all vaults to use the fallback 20:13:51 <06advil> yeah, there used to be some that vetoed that way but I changed them, around when I improved fallback artefact generation 20:15:09 <06advil> iirc shops are isolated from rng so that they shouldn't affect the overall state (except by potentially generating unrands); I did tweak a bunch around then too and yeah there was this one shop that I didn't manage to fix 20:15:30 <06advil> also, single items are isolated so as long as the same number of items is in a list like that, it should leave the rng in the same state 20:15:47 <06advil> "isolated" means that they do the same number of draws from the levelgen rng 20:16:43 <06advil> it could be good to have some syntax for specifying a custom fallback 20:17:11 <06advil> !git 38a37b7ff7ab3 20:17:12 <04Cerebot> advil * 0.24-a0-560-g38a37b7ff7: Isolate shop rolls from levelgen (2 years, 1 month ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38a37b7ff7ab 20:17:21 <06advil> haha yeah, that commit msg mentions minmay_shop_mayhem 20:18:11 <06advil> !git 7e99aecb7ec6 20:18:12 <04Cerebot> advil * 0.24-a0-559-g7e99aecb7e: Use fallback randarts for minmay_shop_chei (2 years, 1 month ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7e99aecb7ec6 20:19:19 <06advil> ah this commit msg has some useful discussion: 20:19:23 <06advil> !git a46ea00baf 20:19:25 <04Cerebot> advil * 0.24-a0-556-ga46ea00baf: Remove almost all instances of you.unrands (2 years, 2 months ago, 18 files, 293+ 179-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a46ea00bafb0 20:21:48 Gauntlet Minotaur monster has no weapon 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12615 by jejorda2 20:24:27 <10PleasingFungus> heh 20:26:11 <09gammafunk> that minotaur was just very picky 20:26:47 <10PleasingFungus> probably there just wasn’t a weapon in the set 20:27:17 <09gammafunk> no, I prefer my explanation 20:28:42 <09gammafunk> @advil I see, thanks. I'll probably try some of those seed tests you mention to be sure 20:28:43 <09gammafunk> hrm 20:28:45 <09gammafunk> *??nikola 20:28:45 <04Cerebot> Nikola (@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 158-216 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 20 | weapons, items, doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: will(120) | Corpse | XP: 4082 | Sp: b.lightning (3d22), chain lightning (3d45), blink | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 20:28:55 <09gammafunk> ok, so nikola uses chain light without relec 20:35:08 <10PleasingFungus> it’s allowed! 20:42:41 <09gammafunk> !zap PleasingFungus 20:42:42 <04Cerebot> (∩ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)⊃━☆ﾟ. o ･｡ﾟ PleasingFungus 21:28:09 <06advil> @gammafunk when you have a moment, could you update the freenode reference on https://crawl.dcss.io/#lobby 21:28:18 <06advil> some day we'll get them all 21:28:29 <06advil> I think oldreddit might still have one, gotta remember how one edits that 21:43:24 <09gammafunk> @advil will do; also, regarding that and reddit, someone referred to your "How to post a Morgue" post, which also references freenode 21:43:52 <09gammafunk> might be a good idea to add said post as a link on reddit 21:46:00 <06advil> ah, forgot about that one, I've updated it 21:46:07 <06advil> if you mean the how to post a morgue post, it's already linked 21:46:12 <06advil> was somewhat confused by that 21:46:56 <06advil> maybe oldreddit doesn't have that either, but I don't use oldreddit so 🤷 21:49:37 <09gammafunk> ah, yeah someone linked it in a post, which is how I saw it in the first place, and said "don't know why this isn't linked on the reddit" 21:49:39 <09gammafunk> I should have checked 21:50:03 <09gammafunk> oh cool, it's a wiki 21:50:10 <09gammafunk> did not know we had this 21:50:58 <09gammafunk> random question, but has anyone heard from /u/cww? 21:51:05 <09gammafunk> seems he hasn't posted for many years 21:51:16 <06advil> nope 21:51:28 <06advil> I believe the reddit wiki consists entirely of that "how to post a morgue" thing 21:51:59 <09gammafunk> I was going to suggest we maybe move it to wordpress, but that seems a more natural place for it 21:52:19 <06advil> if we ever make tavern 2.0 I plan to put a version of it there 21:53:07 <06advil> but that wiki basically exists to be linked from the pinned questions threads (which it also is)