01:55:01 03dicedlemming02 {GitHub} 07* 0.27-a0-1502-g47ed6a6988: Update mutation-data.h (#2019) 10(5 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/47ed6a69882b 02:04:26 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1502-g47ed6a6988 (34) 02:17:44 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1502-g47ed6a6988 (34) 03:16:20 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-1503-g3203f140b7: feat: further reduce book spawns 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3203f140b74e 03:34:00 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1503-g3203f140b7 (34) 03:35:11 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4217-g7c68dc2372 03:37:17 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-593-gc0f70b0ec0 08:53:07 -!- rt is now known as robin 09:50:24 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1504-g1715c4e68f: feat: try to map more currency symbols to CMD_LIST_GOLD 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1715c4e68f8d 10:05:27 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1504-g1715c4e68f (34) 10:43:32 kate-: re slime creatures, maybe you already considered, but an alternative that seems less awkward would be to have the prop split with them and not end the duel until they're all dead 11:42:10 <09gammafunk> @ebering Saw you dropped book drops again, the previous commit you mentioned that suggested further drops did mention a possible second reduction, but did you see 96bc1138baa82ce5855 immediately after? It mentions objstat showing spell generation dropping back down to before the change with that commit. 11:42:32 <09gammafunk> Not sure where we are in terms of those levels 11:45:24 <12ebering> I did, I didn’t run the objstat; this was based on observed feel. 11:55:43 <03wheals> in the end lootfeel is what it's all about 12:05:05 <06advil> objstat gets around sample size issues 12:05:51 <06advil> "feel" makes me worry about them 🙂 12:06:32 <09gammafunk> https://script.google.com/macros/s/AKfycbzMgIJyTQS29VbzQMPkBsizw3feJBGmFQVybC4ztw/exec 100 iters of D:1-12,Orc,Lair 12:08:08 <09gammafunk> yeah, I don't discard player feel in any sense, but numbers are nice to have in addition to compare experience to "reality" (assuming no objstat bugs, which I don't think there are!); I haven't actually played with these changes myself, and the subtlety of how it plays out in practice can be different from what the numbers just state, of course 12:13:47 <09gammafunk> probably adding "%" at the end of the chance values was a mistake 12:14:27 <09gammafunk> drop % and call the field PercSeen instead, or something 12:22:46 <09gammafunk> looking at IE I picked as set of viable "progression" spells that were either ice or pure conj and asked what's the chance that you'd find one of these spells before lair (D:1-D:11). Spells were: Freezing Cloud, IMB, Ozo's Refridge, Summon Ice Beast, Metabolic Englaciation, Simulacrum, Battlesphere, Fulminant Prism. Probability came out to about 0.81, so not bad 12:23:19 <09gammafunk> chance of finding any one of those on any one level is from 1-5%, but they add up 12:27:15 <09gammafunk> oh, hrm 12:27:23 <09gammafunk> actually, this might not work so hot with filters 12:32:02 <09gammafunk> huh...you know what, seems that the formulas are smart about realizing what they should skip 12:35:19 <09gammafunk> as I recall when I did this with VM spells, which to be fair had a smaller set of viable progression spells, I got like an 87% chance of finding a progression spell 12:36:12 <09gammafunk> guess I should go do that calculation again to be sure, but seems to confirm that the drop rate decrease is working but not making the chance of getting an upgrade "in time" all that much worse 12:36:48 <09gammafunk> of course it depends on what spells you actually find in terms of how that upgrade feels, and modulo the fact that various portions of our player base think there's one "must have" spell, etc etc 12:39:00 <09hellmonk> Clearly the solution is to add a book vault for each type of book and control generation by weighting the vaults appropriately 12:39:15 <09gammafunk> I think IE is sort of a bad example since it actually has no problem finishing lair with its starting book 12:39:35 <09gammafunk> probably I'd want to extend the levels looked at, but presumably the percentage just gets very high 12:40:40 <10PleasingFungus> fwiw, i'm fine with the re-lowered drops 12:41:33 <10PleasingFungus> it seems like somewhere between a 50% and 100% increase from the original book drop frequency (30) is reasonable, given that # of spells per book used to be 50-100% higher, and we're still in that range 12:41:41 <10PleasingFungus> i haven't re-run objstat, obviously 12:42:13 <09gammafunk> yeah, I linked a new run above, if you want to look, only 100 iters though 12:42:25 <09gammafunk> does seem basically ok, was just worried we might have overshot 12:42:54 <09gammafunk> and if there are torrents of complaints, we still have time to adjust 12:44:49 <10PleasingFungus> shops have a pretty large stabilizing effect, especially in D and Orc 12:45:04 <10PleasingFungus> since these floor drop rates don't affect most shops 12:47:06 <08nicolae> proof that shops are secretly the most important part of crawl and that nicolae shop vaults are basically the only thing keeping crawl together 12:47:41 <10PleasingFungus> checks out 12:55:53 <09gammafunk> yeah 12:56:09 <09gammafunk> did the vm calculation using a slightly more conservative list of viable spells 12:56:50 <09gammafunk> 69% chance (pinging hellmonk) you find one of imb, ignite poison, allistairs, battlesphere, fulminant prism, eringya's by D:11 12:57:20 <08nicolae> quick question re: big vault submissions, i have a bunch of elf vaults and also a bunch of vaults for other files (mini_features, ecumenical, large_abstract, shops, etc.), should i put them in one big pull request or in separate ones 12:58:04 <09gammafunk> always best if seperate pr by type 12:58:15 <09gammafunk> allows you to break up review work and merge more easilly 12:58:36 <08nicolae> what do you mean by type, specifically 12:58:37 <09gammafunk> I assume you meant PR there and not just commit 12:58:44 <08nicolae> yeah 12:58:48 <09gammafunk> well, the types you mentioned! 12:58:57 <08nicolae> like should i make multiple local branches for each file that needs updating 12:58:58 <09gammafunk> they don't have to be exactly those, but that listing actually seemed fine 12:58:59 <08nicolae> gotcha :three_thumbs_up: 12:59:20 <09gammafunk> size can also be a bit of a guide 12:59:29 <08nicolae> got it 12:59:40 <09gammafunk> if it's much past 10 vaults it's taking longer to review etc 12:59:52 <09gammafunk> I mean to reject, of course 12:59:54 <09gammafunk> all will be rejected 12:59:58 <08nicolae> oh, well, i have a lot more than 10 vaults for elf... 13:00:07 <09gammafunk> yeah, and that's fine 13:00:09 <12ebering> you can't reject them now gammafunk nicolae's a dev too 13:00:13 <08nicolae> i'm a dev now i will simply override your rejections 😎 13:00:24 <08nicolae> UNFATHOMABLE POWER 13:00:31 <12ebering> you gotta get ready for the Revert Wars™ 13:00:34 <09gammafunk> I can reject them later, after I merge 13:00:40 <09gammafunk> in unrelated commits 13:00:41 <08nicolae> oh shit, advanced techniques 13:00:48 <09gammafunk> feat: checkwhite 13:01:05 <09gammafunk> oops nicoale alpha shops considered whitespace, nothing I could do 13:01:33 <08nicolae> no... no! 13:01:45 <08nicolae> too late i see the consequences of my hubris 13:01:49 <09gammafunk> if your'e confident that the vault is ok, you can also just merge without review 13:02:14 <09gammafunk> I don't put my vaults up for review usually, but I tend to spend a lot of time on quality control before hand 13:02:49 <08nicolae> i do a lot of quality control also but since i'm not actually a good player sometimes i have a bad sense of monster balance 13:03:14 <09gammafunk> well we've got to fix that 13:03:21 <09gammafunk> nicolae on the tourney clan 13:03:24 <09gammafunk> wheals as your coach 13:03:46 <08nicolae> training montage set to the rocky theme song 13:04:43 <08nicolae> re-tile training dummies to use the old meat ration tile, make a little vault with freezing clouds, 13:05:14 <09gammafunk> neil shouts at nicolae, who's doing situps, "WHEN DO YOU BERSERK?!" nicolae shouts back at the end of each rep "EVERY FIGHT!" 13:05:41 <09hellmonk> Speaking of tourney clan 13:05:42 <08nicolae> i try to look at existing vaults and stuff like monster HD and XP values to get a sense of the difficulty of monsters i've only encountered rarely outside of wizmode 13:06:10 <09hellmonk> need a good clan name 13:06:23 <08nicolae> what kind of clan name are you looking for 13:06:36 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1504-g1715c4e (34) 13:10:54 <08nicolae> maybe it could be something about how you're a dev now 🤔 13:12:48 <09gammafunk> !won nicolae 13:12:49 <04Cerebot> nicolae has not won in 12 games. 13:12:56 <09gammafunk> play offline much? 13:27:33 <06advil> MONS_SOUPLING 🤔 13:27:47 <06advil> can we have :gloweye: 13:28:04 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus maybe we'll move to devchat since playerchat is lively with players chatting 13:28:28 <12ebering> I think i was wrong about insisting on uc MA. what are your thoughts about banning uc and lowering it to level 4 13:29:21 <08nicolae> mostly. i just never really got into online roguelikes ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 13:30:02 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i replied over there 13:30:09 <12ebering> yes I saw 13:30:12 <12ebering> oops :d 13:30:17 <10PleasingFungus> uh, i'll copy-paste my thoughts 13:31:14 <10PleasingFungus> - banning UC or applying self-damage on UC MA seems reasonable. former is a bit simpler, latter allows people to do it with UC (which they clearly enjoy) but makes it 'not absurdly better than any other use of the spell' - not sure about lowering it to level 4; think level 5 might still be reasonable 13:31:29 <10PleasingFungus> but unsure 13:31:44 <10PleasingFungus> if people are only really using it with UC right now then level 4 would be right 13:36:52 03advil02 07[game-menu] * 0.27-a0-1422-gf570ada4ca: refactor: simplify game menu code 10(45 minutes ago, 1 file, 30+ 49-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f570ada4ca71 13:36:52 03advil02 07[game-menu] * 0.27-a0-1423-ga8b730a136: feat: add tiles for game menu 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 16+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8b730a136f2 13:37:01 <10PleasingFungus> ooh, tiles 13:38:16 <06advil> our command tiles are a bit ugly 13:39:32 <10PleasingFungus> hm 13:39:40 <10PleasingFungus> is there a button in local tiles to get to the menu? 13:39:45 <10PleasingFungus> it seems like the sort of thing that would make sense 13:39:50 <10PleasingFungus> i mean, a clickable button 13:40:12 <06advil> no, not right now 13:40:22 <06advil> there's a toolbar that has many of the same things on it 13:41:16 <10PleasingFungus> ah 13:42:31 <06advil> though really that toolbar is a bit of a mix, maybe I'll move at least the player tile editor off of it 13:43:19 <12ebering> my sense is that at lvl 5 people are primarily using manass with forms and not with weapons. I def found it pricy on the Dg I was playing with it 13:43:33 <12ebering> (that Dg was trying to use both MA and animate armour and an axe) 13:47:13 <05kate> i don't really have a sense of whether UC MA is a big issue, but if it is i don't think making it cause self-damage would be a great fix, blocking it sounds fine if needed. is it really that much of a problem at L5 plus whatever investment you need to cast a big form plus train a bunch of UC, though? 13:49:51 <10PleasingFungus> it’s definitely very popular 13:50:17 <05kate> sure, but so is worshipping like, chei and casting statue form 13:50:22 <10PleasingFungus> sure 13:50:31 <10PleasingFungus> imo ask lici or someone 13:50:39 <10PleasingFungus> lici is usually sensible 13:55:44 03advil02 07[game-menu] * 0.27-a0-1424-gb67ae2edce: feat: clickable game menu access for local tiles (PleasingFungus) 10(61 seconds ago, 4 files, 26+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b67ae2edce7f 13:57:42 <10PleasingFungus> honestly i should just do the xp math 13:58:07 <10PleasingFungus> to figure out what you give up in uc, dodge or we 13:58:15 <10PleasingFungus> to get manass online 13:59:24 <06advil> how is UC MA different from weapon MA? 13:59:52 <06advil> seems like the tradeoffs wouldn't change 14:00:27 <06advil> maybe just be a bit magnified 14:00:40 <09gammafunk> ??Manifold assault 14:00:41 <04Cerebot> manifold assault[1/1]: L4 Translocations spell that attacks 2-4 random hostile monsters in LOS using your current melee attack. The delay of the action is the same as your weapon delay. Spellpower increases the number of attacks. Certain unrands with AOE that require prompting don't work with this spell. Found in the {book of spatial translocations} and the {book of the warp}. Added in 0.27. 14:02:25 <09gammafunk> I think the primary difference is going to come down to skill required for good success rate, since you might not otherwise train that much translocations 14:03:08 <09gammafunk> in armour you'll probably just need to train more translocations, versus forms where in many cases you cast in robe or far lighter armor 14:03:32 <09gammafunk> blade hands being the one exception to that, but now blade hands isn't in the starting book, so it's not the "default" for high end forms 14:03:38 <10PleasingFungus> armour is the difference, yeah 14:04:20 <09gammafunk> I guess that learndb is out of date and currently MA is L5 14:04:48 <10PleasingFungus> with non uc you’re either wearing lighter armour or training more spell skills to get MA online through the encumbrance 14:05:10 <10PleasingFungus> tmuts also mean you probably have a lil spcast already 14:05:59 <09gammafunk> to some extent you can just sort of say universally that hybrid spells will always be a "forms thing" but that play style is geared towards its 14:06:24 <06advil> so is the idea that there's an extra uc+forms+MA synergy that goes too far? 14:07:19 <12ebering> the idea is that the forms+uc characters have a doubly easier time to get MA useful relative to an armour+melee weapon character 14:07:43 <06advil> they still have to be training for the forms though, no? 14:07:55 <06advil> does seem like some xp math would be helpful here 14:07:58 <12ebering> they have lower encumbrance, and have already prioritized spcst and int 14:08:07 <12ebering> yeah, xp math might point out that actually its fine 14:08:14 <10PleasingFungus> my understanding is that uc + ma is currently quite powerful and that non-uc + ma is a bit marginal, and it’s tricky to improve the latter w/o making the former utterly absurd 14:08:18 <10PleasingFungus> but yes 14:08:21 <10PleasingFungus> need to do math 14:08:26 <09gammafunk> ??quite powerful 14:08:26 <04Cerebot> quite powerful[1/11]: 0.8 mummy 14:08:29 <10PleasingFungus> and am currently holding a baby 14:08:37 <06advil> doesn't seem obvious that uc + ma without forms is particularly powerful 14:08:41 <08nicolae> a baby?! 14:08:49 <09gammafunk> a little Hu-- 14:08:50 <10PleasingFungus> oh, definitely not, but 14:09:03 <06advil> oh yeah, contratulations on that 🙂 14:09:07 <10PleasingFungus> uc without forms doesn’t really exist 14:09:09 <10PleasingFungus> ty! 14:09:11 <08nicolae> congrats on your baby! 14:09:12 <06advil> I have to admit it took me a while to realize that the baby was not just a metaphor for manufactoria 14:09:16 <10PleasingFungus> lol 14:09:17 <08nicolae> if it is not your baby then you should give it back 14:09:29 <08nicolae> unless you're babysitting 14:09:34 <08nicolae> hm, i need to think about this some more 14:09:53 <10PleasingFungus> deep thought 14:10:15 04Build failed for 08game-menu @ b67ae2ed 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1012570921 14:14:40 03advil02 07[game-menu] * 0.27-a0-1425-g3f5b94d29d: fix: adjust header vs defines 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f5b94d29d00 14:24:53 New branch created: pull/2021 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2021 14:24:53 03dilly02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2021 * 0.27-a0-1501-gcde910795b: guarded_vault for elemental staff 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 89+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cde910795bd4 14:32:36 <10PleasingFungus> demo character 14:32:37 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/862763117464125460/unknown.png 14:32:38 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/862763122908856320/unknown.png 14:32:47 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/862763162910064690/unknown.png 14:33:43 <10PleasingFungus> somewhere around tloc 9 or 10, manifold becomes reasonable to use (6-4% fail chance) 14:35:08 <10PleasingFungus> that's about 6 orbs of fire worth of xp 14:35:16 <10PleasingFungus> with that same amount of xp, i could get... 14:35:49 <10PleasingFungus> fighting from 15 to 17 14:36:35 <10PleasingFungus> or UC from 20 to 21 14:37:13 <10PleasingFungus> seems like trading 1 level of UC for manifold assault is a very good trade? 14:37:18 <10PleasingFungus> (plus blink and pog and so on) 14:37:40 <10PleasingFungus> if anyone wants me to try a character with a different statset, please let me know 14:38:24 advil, the € button works properly and I can see the shopping list. 14:38:38 ah cool 14:38:57 is this webtiles? 14:40:03 <10PleasingFungus> a character with the same stats needs to get tloc to about 15-16 to get manifold assault castable in chain mail 14:40:15 yes, at CKO. It is the only place that has recent enough trunk version to do that. 14:41:46 <05kate> but also has all the xp that was in tmut free to do so, right? or to have additional armour skill? 14:42:27 <10PleasingFungus> tmut character probably doesn’t need to train much armour either 🙂 14:42:46 <05kate> right but that helps towards casting 14:43:34 <10PleasingFungus> fair 14:43:43 <05kate> i'm going to assume that not training 18 levels of tmut lets you train tloc from 10 to 16 instead and still have a pretty good amount to spare elsewhere 14:44:09 <12ebering> I'm convinced 14:44:39 <05kate> it does all get a bit weird at very high levels since yeah, for lots of characters you can probably do stuff like pick up any given mid-level spell instead of training something from 20->21 or whatever 14:45:31 <10PleasingFungus> i sort of suspect that the skill xp cost goes way too high past 20ish 14:45:42 <10PleasingFungus> as noted in that PR 14:45:49 <10PleasingFungus> not sure how to smooth it without breaking everything, though 14:45:53 <10PleasingFungus> don't want to just cut off the top really 14:46:13 <05kate> yeah, seems like a big project although definitely would be good to try 14:46:35 <05kate> can do it alongside huge cuts to branch lengths to reduce overall game XP and make it even more difficult to balance out 14:46:41 <10PleasingFungus> lol 14:48:54 <08nicolae> make a variant that's a cross between regular crawl and sprint. each branch is one level. 14:49:07 <10PleasingFungus> it's been discussed! 14:49:14 <10PleasingFungus> well 14:49:25 <10PleasingFungus> perhaps not to a high degree of rigor 14:50:55 03advil02 07[game-menu] * 0.27-a0-1505-g97433f2c34: feat: add a game menu 10(25 hours ago, 6 files, 99+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/97433f2c341f 14:50:55 03advil02 07[game-menu] * 0.27-a0-1506-g6a8ace0863: feat: clickable game menu access for local tiles (PleasingFungus) 10(56 minutes ago, 4 files, 29+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6a8ace086368 14:51:28 <06advil> quickcrawl was like that 14:52:16 Branch master updated to be equal with game-menu: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master 14:52:29 namnharef (L27 HOFi) ASSERT(item.props.exists(ARTEFACT_PROPS_KEY) || is_unrandom_artefact(item)) in 'artefact.cc' at line 1036 failed. (D:17) 14:52:36 <10PleasingFungus> oh no 14:52:39 namnharef (L27 HOFi) ASSERT(item.props.exists(ARTEFACT_PROPS_KEY) || is_unrandom_artefact(item)) in 'artefact.cc' at line 1036 failed. (D:17) 14:52:46 !crashlog 14:52:47 23833. hydragon, XL15 DjFE, T:44557 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/trunk/hydragon/crash-hydragon-20210708-172006.txt 14:52:58 !crashlog namnharef 14:52:59 1. namnharef, XL4 HEFE, T:1256 (milestone): https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/namnharef/crash-namnharef-20161102-083517.txt 14:53:08 hm 14:53:19 namnharef (L27 HOFi) ASSERT(item.props.exists(ARTEFACT_PROPS_KEY) || is_unrandom_artefact(item)) in 'artefact.cc' at line 1036 failed. (D:17) 14:53:22 !lm namnharef 14:53:23 6482. [2021-07-08 18:52:39] namnharef the Axe Maniac (L27 HOFi of The Shining One) ASSERT(item.props.exists(ARTEFACT PROPS KEY) || is unrandom artefact(item)) in 'artefact.cc' at line 1036 failed on turn 105732. (D:17) 14:53:28 !lm namnharef -log 14:53:29 6482. namnharef, XL27 HOFi, T:105732 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/namnharef/crash-namnharef-20210708-185239.txt 14:54:16 <06advil> Version history: Missing version history before: 0.18-a0-1348-g32b6e23 0.27-a0-1501-g9d6fb14e67 14:54:24 <12ebering> ohgod 14:54:34 <12ebering> tag major 35 in 0.28 14:56:04 <05kate> incredible 14:56:43 <10PleasingFungus> i love it frankly 14:57:11 <10PleasingFungus> Zapping: s - a wand of heal wounds (4) Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - you You feel much better. This wand has 3 charges left. 14:57:13 <10PleasingFungus> Eat which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit) Mmm - a full handful of sultanas! 14:57:46 <10PleasingFungus> Drop what? 52/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a ring of obsoleteness. Drop what? 51/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a removed rod. x2 Drop what? 49/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) Okay, then. Cast which spell? (? or * to list) Okay, then. Your library has no spells. Drop what? 49/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) 14:57:46 You drop a ring of teleport control. Drop what? 48/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a ring of teleportation. 14:57:56 <10PleasingFungus> Drop what? 46/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a ring of sustain attributes. Unknown command. Unknown command. Drop what? 45/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit) You drop a wand of removedness (3). You drop a wand of removedness. You drop a wand of removedness (9). You drop a wand of removedness (1). Drop what? 41/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to 14:57:57 quit) You drop 10 potions of degeneration. You drop 2 removed foods. You drop 21 removed foods. You drop 9 scrolls of removedness. You drop a phial of floods. You drop a removed stone of tremors. You drop 7 scrolls of removedness. 14:58:14 <10PleasingFungus> we have to support this person's game 14:58:19 <10PleasingFungus> they are my hero 14:59:24 <08nicolae> if i'm reading this correctly, this person has managed to keep all of these obsolete items from since 0.18 up to modern crawl? 14:59:55 <09gammafunk> well, they likely haven't played the game for long intervals 15:00:00 <09gammafunk> !kw eternalnaga 15:00:01 <04Cerebot> Keyword: eternalnaga => gid=MarvinPA:cdo:20130118213330S 15:00:02 <08nicolae> oh yeah, that'll do it 15:00:15 <09gammafunk> !lm * eternalnaga 1 x=vlong 15:00:16 <04Cerebot> 1/1893. 2013-02-18 21:36:05 MarvinPA the Digger (L3 NaEE of Vehumet) became a worshipper of Vehumet on turn 1061. (D:2) 15:00:26 <09gammafunk> this char predates vlong as a field, wonderful 15:00:31 <09gammafunk> !lm * eternalnaga 1 x=cv 15:00:33 <04Cerebot> 1/1893. 2013-02-18 21:36:05 MarvinPA the Digger (L3 NaEE of Vehumet) became a worshipper of Vehumet on turn 1061. (D:2) 15:00:40 <09gammafunk> character running since 0.12-a 15:00:53 <08nicolae> golly 15:00:54 <05kate> maybe i should see if it loads 15:01:11 <05kate> i don't remember when i last checked in on it 15:01:16 <09gammafunk> !lm * eternalnaga 1 x=cv,src 15:01:17 <04Cerebot> 1/1893. 2013-02-18 21:36:05 MarvinPA the Digger (L3 NaEE of Vehumet) became a worshipper of Vehumet on turn 1061. (D:2) 15:01:27 <09gammafunk> do you mind if I copy the save to check it out? 15:01:42 <09gammafunk> kind of neat to have a live copy for historical purposes 15:01:49 <05kate> go for it, i think there are some save copies up on mantis already too from when i was trying to debug the crashes 15:01:58 <09gammafunk> oh, true 15:02:05 <06advil> they upgraded from something earlier (before we stored version history like that) to 0.18-a to 0.27-a 15:02:19 <06advil> all the upgrade msgs should be in the log 15:03:58 <06advil> though there isn't a log for that game right now 15:05:45 <09gammafunk> !lm * eternalnaga x=vlong 15:05:46 <04Cerebot> 1893. 2016-12-31 17:12:19 MarvinPA the Farming Plane Slider (L27 NaEE of Makhleb) escaped from the Abyss! (Abyss:1) 15:10:34 <09gammafunk> > Your Charms skill lost 2 levels and is now at level 25! > You feel omnipotent. We're off to a good start! 15:10:44 <09gammafunk> I'm here, on D:22, where I belong 15:11:29 <09gammafunk> with my removed crystal ball and my removed fan of gales 15:12:37 <09gammafunk> wow, travel seems to take a very long time 15:12:56 <09gammafunk> > applying delayed action: reclaim decks 15:13:05 <09gammafunk> no idea if that's the culprit, but nice 15:13:05 <05kate> haha, nice 15:13:47 <05kate> i know at one point it was extremely slow because of delayed actions counting all the gold generated on every level to calculate gozag's fee, after gozag got added 15:14:08 <09gammafunk> it does indeed still crash on lair:2 15:14:24 <05kate> oh wow, it crashes for you locally? i could never get it to crash locally, only on cdo 15:14:32 <09gammafunk> yeah 15:14:35 <09gammafunk> > ASSERT(item.props.exists(ARTEFACT_PROPS_KEY) || is_unrandom_artefact(item)) in 'artefact.cc' at line 1036 failed. 15:14:50 <09gammafunk> could be something related to OS 15:14:54 <09gammafunk> I'm linux, like CDO 15:15:11 ah, that's the same crash we just saw 15:15:15 so you could debug it! 15:15:19 <05kate> i think i've tried it on multiple operating systems at this point but i forget 15:15:52 <09gammafunk> I could, maybe I'll take a look later 15:15:57 <09gammafunk> would like to check out this Lair:2 15:16:05 my first guess from that assert is that there's some fixup/save compat code that no longer exists 15:16:17 but would be useful just to know what even that item is 15:16:53 <09gammafunk> http://dpaste.com/D28BSTBTP 15:16:55 <09gammafunk> if that helps 15:16:58 <05kate> the progress i made in the past when i debugged it was: "Looking at the save locally, there is an artefact plate mail with the SustAb property in the Lair:2 stash, which shouldn't be possible at all (before 48ad150 it's a plate of {rC+ Dex+3}, afterwards it's {rC+ Dex+3 SustAb}). But I still can't get the save to actually crash locally with any combination of optimised/debug/whatever builds, so I'm not 15:16:59 sure if that's actually the issue or not." 15:18:04 <05kate> and a couple of other people got similar crashes and their saves also had artefacts with sustab on them where it shouldn't be 15:20:14 <09gammafunk> @advil and save is on CDO at /home/services/dgamelaunch/crawl-svn-34d46f0a3f/saves/MarvinPA.cs if you want to poke at it 15:35:11 <06advil> I think this is a new crash, it's crashing on any randart book 15:36:15 <12ebering> hm! this is related to a mantis ticket I closed 15:36:54 <12ebering> I thought the only codepath to trip that assert was via calling clua on a randart book, so I made clua not do that 15:38:19 <12ebering> %git b642d533b815287 15:38:19 <04Cerebot> ebering * 0.27-a0-1472-gb642d533b8: fix: don't clua crash on randbooks (12508) (2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b642d533b815 15:38:22 <12ebering> !bug 12508 15:38:23 <04Cerebot> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12508 15:50:48 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1506-g6a8ace0863 (34) 16:08:26 07advil02 * 0.25-a0-111-gca9b790695: Clean up some heavy-handed artefact code 10(1 year, 8 months ago, 6 files, 71+ 66-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca9b790695f0 16:08:26 %git ca9b790695f0bee3 16:10:32 that's the same ASSERT being tripped but I think something must have been previously guarding it, because in kate's save that is simply happening on level load fixup 16:20:52 03Zhang Kai02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-1507-gf492b14eaa: Update cards.txt 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 149+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f492b14eaabf 16:20:52 03Zhang Kai02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-1508-gd2886d99c2: Update species.txt 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 30+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d2886d99c2a8 16:20:52 03Zhang Kai02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-1509-gbfabb6706f: Create clouds.txt 10(9 weeks ago, 1 file, 158+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bfabb6706f80 16:20:52 03Zhang Kai02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-1510-g8a69ca93ff: Update unident.txt 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a69ca93ffbf 16:20:52 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-1511-g29bd1443cf: docs: update credits 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29bd1443cf6a 16:34:32 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1511-g29bd1443cf (34) 17:10:35 oh haha this is very simple, the relevant code is only triggered on fairly ancient upgrades 17:20:52 <10PleasingFungus> simple is good 17:25:33 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1512-g99fd57bada: fix: avoid a crash on upgrading randbooks after ca9b790695f0 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/99fd57badaaa 17:27:01 kate-: fwiw the plate armour when I upgrade that save on mac console doesn't have SustAb 17:35:31 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1512-g99fd57bada (34) 17:35:41 probably we should set up ci to load lair 2 on that save every once in a while 17:36:15 fr: artefact props for randbooks 17:52:20 <10PleasingFungus> lol 17:52:26 <10PleasingFungus> that would be an extremely good CI test 18:19:58 <05kate> currently using duel to pull swamp worms out of water so i can fight them without stumbling 18:20:17 <05kate> extremely powerful tech for my first real outing with it 18:22:40 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-1512-g99fd57bada (34) 18:29:19 <10PleasingFungus> honorable duel 18:29:23 <10PleasingFungus> who will win 18:29:30 <10PleasingFungus> a champion of the great god of battle, Okawaru 18:29:31 <10PleasingFungus> or 18:29:33 <10PleasingFungus> a worm 18:33:04 is there any flavor for if your enemy has religion too? 18:38:00 <05kate> not currently, i guess oka doesn't particularly care about enemy religion like beogh does but it could be possible to add some speech or something there maybe 18:39:16 <10PleasingFungus> finally would be possible to reveal to players the 1/7 chance of abyss angels following xom, or w/e it is 19:01:46 <09gammafunk> > 38126 semitonal the Severer (level 14, -20/121 HPs) > Began as a Hill Orc Monk on July 8, 2021. > Was a High Priest of Okawaru. > Killed from afar by a hellephant (83 damage) > ... with a blast of flame > ... on level 3 of the Abyss. Did someone not use duel secret tech to avoid banishment?! 19:01:59 <09gammafunk> good hellephant damage 19:02:37 <09gammafunk> ooh, that makes me wonder....what if you dueled..well, let me just try it 19:04:03 <09gammafunk> > _Aim: a kraken (water, asleep) > _You cannot duel that! Extreme sad 19:04:41 <05kate> ambushed by a skeletal warrior with distortion yeah, very rude 19:04:50 <05kate> and yeah, doesn't work on water/lava-only monsters 19:05:09 <09gammafunk> ooh I have another great monster to test 19:06:01 <05kate> hah, nice 19:06:17 <05kate> i assume it can't dig through permarock at least 19:06:55 <05kate> oh right, they have the weird thing where they banish themselves for some reason??? 19:06:59 <05kate> but it can't do that here 19:07:10 <09gammafunk> yes 19:07:13 <06advil> is this spatial vortices or something? 19:07:15 <09gammafunk> that's what I was remembering 19:07:17 <09gammafunk> maelstrom 19:07:19 <05kate> yeah 19:07:21 <09gammafunk> because they can dig walls 19:07:30 <09gammafunk> they have this thing that prevents them from existing for long outside of abyss 19:07:34 <05kate> oh right, just to stop you from kiting them around 19:07:58 <09gammafunk> nice, so it's monster banishment protection in arena preventing that? 19:08:12 <09gammafunk> I guess that makes total sense 19:08:15 <05kate> yeah, it's trying to banish itself but players and monsters are both protected from banishment 19:09:04 <09gammafunk> I got super confused at first since I saw it got damaged and I thought "oh, it's working, it's killing itself!" 19:09:11 <09gammafunk> then I realized it my my plut sword ripostes 19:09:31 <05kate> hah 19:14:22 03kate-02 07[single_combat] * 0.27-a0-1508-g28b086c9dd: Make Pikel's lemures more grateful under Okawaru 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28b086c9dde1 19:14:51 <10PleasingFungus> very important fix 19:14:54 <10PleasingFungus> i approve 19:19:19 <05kate> oh! also now that i died on the oka branch i can look up what the completely ridiculous d:2 vault i got is 19:20:58 <10PleasingFungus> ridiculous in what way? 19:21:33 <05kate> !vault dat/des/variable/float.des:8012 19:21:34 <04Cerebot> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des#L8012 19:21:46 <05kate> ridiculous in that it was kennysheep_big_flooded_room but with all the water replaced with statues 19:21:48 <09gammafunk> yes 19:21:59 <09gammafunk> that is a longstanding problem with kennysheep vaults 19:22:09 <09gammafunk> they have this "increase kennysheep variety" function 19:22:17 <09gammafunk> ks_random_setup() 19:22:37 <09gammafunk> it's used by a bunch of his vaults so I haven't gone in to try to mess with it 19:22:44 <09gammafunk> but it's very wholesale with replacement like that 19:22:45 <05kate> maybe it's fine to just not let water reroll into stuff other than more water or lava? 19:23:02 <05kate> or floor 19:23:27 <09gammafunk> yeah, feel free to make a sensible adjustment, since I think he sort of went "well let's try all the different things" 19:23:44 <09gammafunk> without necessarilly considering whether that would make sense for all vaults where he uses it 19:24:17 <09gammafunk> would kind of like to simplify it and/or reorganize but I'd have to look at all his vaults 19:24:59 <08nicolae> maybe we're just unfairly biased against big zones full of statues 19:25:27 <05kate> yeah, it looks like this is doing a lot of heavy lifting, can also turn all the trees into fountains maybe? or various kinds of walls/glass 19:26:55 <05kate> it's probably just statues and fountains specifically that shouldn't be substituted into without it being more deliberate, the rest of the options are fairly reasonable for a mass replacement 21:30:52 03hellmonk02 07[shoals_encompass] * 0.27-a0-1289-g38991d07fe: Various shoals encompass adjustments (Gammafunk) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 42+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38991d07feaa 21:30:52 03hellmonk02 07[shoals_encompass] * 0.27-a0-1290-g0be2c92b99: Fix a shoals lua test 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0be2c92b9999 21:30:52 03hellmonk02 07[shoals_encompass] * 0.27-a0-1291-g0c589614ff: Increase shoals encompass weights 10(51 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0c589614ff35 21:30:54 Branch pull/2003 updated to be equal with shoals_encompass: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2003 21:31:52 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-1513-g2aaa0cc67b: Adjust randomisation in some kennysheep vaults 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2aaa0cc67b65 21:47:20 03hellmonk02 07[shoals_encompass] * 0.27-a0-1292-gd60b33e1c4: Really fix shoals hut lua test 10(75 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d60b33e1c432 21:47:22 Branch pull/2003 updated to be equal with shoals_encompass: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2003 21:50:06 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1513-g2aaa0cc67b (34) 22:14:26 04Build failed for 08shoals_encompass @ 0c589614 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1013635547 22:14:30 04Build failed for 08shoals_encompass @ d60b33e1 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1013662564 23:05:45 03hellmonk02 07[shoals_encompass] * 0.27-a0-1293-gbb81f706e5: Really really fix shoals hut lua 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bb81f706e5d7 23:05:47 Branch pull/2003 updated to be equal with shoals_encompass: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2003 23:21:19 04Build failed for 08shoals_encompass @ bb81f706 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1013818095