00:05:52 <10PleasingFungus> yes 00:05:52 <10PleasingFungus> kate was saying that qs oozes didn’t have it initially, when i added them, until she gave them racid 00:08:13 <09hellmonk> pleased to report that zot_springs is almost done, just need to fix some subst logic so it isn't placing dry ground under the monsters at the end 00:08:16 <09hellmonk> volcanochamp 00:10:06 Oh, my bad. 00:10:39 <10PleasingFungus> hm, actually, yermak, since you're the person who's won the most new dj 00:11:45 hellmonk, you sure those slimy passages in your map appear 50% of the time? I got your cave twice, and each time had all 4 passages. 00:11:45 <09hellmonk> it should be using crawl.coinflip to determine if they place, but it either places all or none of them 00:11:45 <10PleasingFungus> pubby had a suggestion: to make it less likely that new spells were already learnable at the moment you got them, increase dj xp apt by 1 (0->1) and decrease spcast by 1 (-2 -> -3) 00:11:45 oh, I see 00:12:05 <09hellmonk> though now that you mention it, placing each one randomly or maybe in sets of two might be more interesting 00:12:07 <10PleasingFungus> (and to make wizardry more useful, etc) 00:12:17 PF, sounds interesting 00:12:17 <09hellmonk> assuming there's enough glyphs to do that 00:12:20 <10PleasingFungus> it sounded like a reasonableish change, but i was curious about what you thought 00:13:09 <10PleasingFungus> i think it's probably a net nerf overall..? 00:13:23 Well, it's a buff for spellless Dj. 00:13:26 <10PleasingFungus> heh 00:13:27 <10PleasingFungus> tru 00:13:37 <10PleasingFungus> maybe i'll push it and see how much people complain 00:13:42 <09hellmonk> djmo overpowered confirmed 00:13:55 <10PleasingFungus> djhu has a 20% winrate! 00:13:56 <10PleasingFungus> absolutely busted 00:14:02 <09hellmonk> I believe it 00:14:29 You just choose xbow at start and then by the time you're out of ammo, you have spells available. 00:14:32 <10PleasingFungus> admittedly, there are like 20 djhu games total 00:16:11 <09gammafunk> wow, secret pubby communications? 00:16:45 <09hellmonk> gfunk, what do you think about updating slime ice cave tunnels to be individual 50% chances rather than all or nothing 00:17:38 <09gammafunk> hrm, totally fine probably, good way to increase variation 00:17:38 <09hellmonk> I can toss it into my upcoming pr 00:42:29 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-1148-ga92136e: Tweak Dj apts (pubby) 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a92136e5f8af 00:42:29 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690: New monster tiles (Sastreii) 10(42 seconds ago, 11 files, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4505690ab097 00:43:11 <10PleasingFungus> huge fan of this! it (and your other recent tiles) are in-game now 🙂 thanks for making them! 00:54:56 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690ab0 (34) 01:21:09 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4135-g7666618ddd 01:34:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690ab0 (34) 01:55:49 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690ab0 02:40:46 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690ab0 (34) 02:51:08 There was always light correlation in Tiles between the size of a tile and how dangerous that monster is. I don't like new black bear tile - it looks scarier than it is. 02:53:54 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690ab0 03:30:48 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4135-g7666618ddd 07:52:33 https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/ql3UqbsA/ 07:58:26 Just not sure if I ever wanted to play a tin can melee djinn. Getting hit = loosing HP/MP - it seems more sensible to kill enemies from a distance, i.e. playing caster or hunter. On the other hand, an Axe Maniac would answer the one achilles heel I found on my two Djinn runs so far: getting swarmed and running out of HP. There even Makhleb was not helping a lot... while Makhleb and Abs.Zero can be cast indefinite. 08:07:13 Is it intentional that the ice block that results from Absolute Zero blocks the tile it is created on? I am asking because it absolutely trivializes Zot:5: freeze a mob in the passage going into one of the lungs - then everything else just piles up behind where you can freeze it with no risk of getting swarmed. 08:07:48 (And if thoughts like these are better shared elsewhere, please tell me.) 09:01:50 I believe that is intentional 10:09:50 Okido. It makes this already very powerful offensive tool even sweeter due to that defensive utitlity, but why not :) 10:12:21 fwiw firestorm has a similar effect from the vortexes that requires very little tactical planning 10:13:53 there's a continual thread of overestimating abs0 (compared to other lvl 9s) because its results are so immediate 10:19:47 Running out of magic with 5 monsters still on the screen immediately comes to mind :) 10:22:10 Feature idea, derived from running around Abyss:3: Could an announcement when you close to rune vault be included? I imagine it triggering when the rune vault is only "distant", like the messages you get on timed portals. I used to play pure ASCII a long time... made finding the vault pretty much an exercise in patience. Now on webtiles, where "that special teal-ish tile" exists... a prompt would be great. 10:22:28 Feature idea, derived from running around Abyss:3: Could an announcement when you are close to rune vault be included? I imagine it triggering when the rune vault is only "distant", like the messages you get on timed portals. I used to play pure ASCII a long time... made finding the vault pretty much an exercise in patience. Now on webtiles, where "that special teal-ish tile" exists... a prompt would be great. 10:23:02 Sorry... that was meant to be a correction to the first post (adding "are") - but seems that does not work in IRC. 10:32:29 Immediacy is a big benefit. If you come across a strange new monster, you don't need to know anything about it in order to kill it without any risk. It's not the perfect spell in all situations, but you'll have other spells. 10:37:29 I think that actually might be another case where immediacy, when the tactical situation allows for it, makes it feel better than it is 10:37:46 since for abs 0 you have to come across the strange new monster such that it is the closest monster to you 10:38:58 (personally I'd prefer firestorm for a strange new monster) 10:39:18 anyways, I agree that there's a feel problem here 10:39:39 Is there a special definition behind "closest monster to you"? I just had two monsters right next to me (9 and 4 o'clock), and even though I used the targeter to point abs0 to the monster left to me, the one right/down from me got iced. 10:40:25 it chooses randomly among monsters at the closest distance, you can't change which monster gets targeted (the targeter should just highlight all the ones that might get hit) 10:40:50 The targeter allows me to move around a box, like you could for Lightning Spire pre 0.25. 10:41:16 That is unintuitive with abs0 selecting a random monster - since I can even try to put the targeter on a more distant monster. 10:41:34 yes, you can use that box to look at monsters if you want 10:41:44 all untargeted spells support that now 10:43:23 when a monster is highlighted, it should say something like "Look: an orc" to indicate that you aren't targeting it 10:43:23 Now I get it... the likely target is highlighted, but I get the "x"-ish box to look around, starting with my own tile. Ok... now that you say it, but would never have noticed without the hint. 10:43:23 Hello. I was working on a vault, but something's wrong with it (crashes the game on startup). Nothing I've tried has fixed it. If any of you have some time, could you please take a look at it? Thank you! https://pastebin.com/LuvEDQdd 10:45:05 hm what OS/build are you using? 10:46:15 Win10, dcss 0.26.1 10:48:10 I'm not sure what the right way to do this is (hopefully someone else could advise) but ideally you want to run crawl in a way so that you can see any des syntax errors 10:49:18 in this case it doesn't crash per se but bails on `KITEM: $ = gold / any item`, which I *think* should just be `KITEM: $ = gold / any` 10:49:18 (with an error about the item spec) 10:49:33 on trunk, but iirc not on 0.26.1, there's also an error on leopard geckos, which have been removed 10:50:48 *right way to do this on windows 10:51:36 (maybe you can see them if you run console from the command prompt?) 10:51:48 on other OS the answer is definitely to run crawl from the command line 10:52:38 ah, I'm not a programmer or very knowledgeable so I've just been doing the braindead: use local downloaded tiles dcss, copy/paste vault into one of the vault files, try to run the game, playtest in wizmode (if the game doesn't crash). Lol 10:52:38 But thank you very much! I will check on the KITEM and leopard gecko things! :) 10:53:36 they were removed because they were functionally identical to quokkas so if you want another similar monster there that would be the natural replacement 10:53:56 awesome, thanks 10:55:11 hm I feel like I did add a thing that made these errors visible on windows, but maybe it was only for the console build? 10:55:27 probably only for console. I only play tiles and I don't ever recall seeing an error message before 10:57:56 Hmm.. I just killed a djinn by miscasting a "quite dangerous" spell. Does the game take into account the number of HP you'll lose just by casting a spell? 10:59:33 sounds quite plausible that no one has implemented that yet 11:06:59 <10PleasingFungus> i did not implement it 11:48:10 <09hellmonk> I definitely do not see error messages from des file stuff in local tiles. They do show up in console though 11:49:40 <08nicolae> i run crawl from the command line so if there's an error loading my des files i get the error message 12:16:45 %git 186425167757 12:16:45 07advil02 * 0.23-a0-35-g1864251: Various changes to smooth out / improve error messaging 10(2 years, 9 months ago, 18 files, 215+ 94-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/186425167757 12:17:40 it's possible that some or all des errors happen too early in the startup process 12:19:24 <08nicolae> fr: a way to reload the map files without having to close and restart crawl, love nicolae 12:22:31 Hey all 12:33:12 <10PleasingFungus> hello 12:58:50 Btw, the problem with my vault did end up being the KITEM thing. So thanks again for your help, advil. Think I'll try testing on console in the future as well. 13:19:47 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690 (34) 14:29:52 <13Sastreii> i'm starting to look at wizlabs, and despite i love all of them and the idea behind, i feel that they could need some revamp. i already did moon troll, but the wall tiles from the moonbase are way too blue imo. i made some adjustments for a more "moony" feeling. 14:29:52 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/842106318211121183/Schermata_2021-05-12_alle_20.09.13.png 14:30:19 <13Sastreii> reference 14:30:20 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/842106433688567848/moonbasee.png 14:31:05 <13Sastreii> if you think they're ok i'll upload the tiles scaled correctly 14:32:59 <13Sastreii> ah, almost forgot, i slightly corrected Murray's jaw. 14:32:59 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/842106916557029386/murray2.png 14:32:59 <10PleasingFungus> nice! i approve of moonier tiles 🙂 14:33:15 <10PleasingFungus> what was wrong with murray? 14:36:50 <13Sastreii> his jaw it's slightly off and disproportionate. 14:36:51 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/842108074159243324/Schermata_2021-05-12_alle_20.35.13.png 14:37:38 <13Sastreii> btw you want the moonbase tiles divided one by one or all attached in a row? 14:42:35 <10PleasingFungus> separately, please 14:42:55 <10PleasingFungus> ideally named something like wall_moon0, wall_moon1 etc 14:43:04 <10PleasingFungus> (but i can rename them, so don't worry too much about that 14:46:41 <13Sastreii> No problem, i can do that. I’ll provide them zipped 14:52:13 <13Sastreii> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/842111946644127784/moonbase.zip 18:21:06 <09gammafunk> @Sastreii that's a nice palette change, and we can use these for moon base. Some food for thought about these wall tiles. They are actually a color change of the "red rock" tiles we use for volcano. This means the player first sees this wall tile set as red rock (hence diggable) tiles, later sees the same tile used with a color change and it's blue stone (not diggable). We don't want the moon 18:21:07 base walls to be diggable, so we cane make them rock. So in an ideal world the texture of moon base would convey "stone" better. I could have just used the existing stone tiles and do a color change, but they look too much like "building stone" and didn't seem exotic enough for moon base. I don't really recommend working on this now unless you find it interesting, but if at some point you wanted to make an 18:21:07 alternative stone tile set that seemed good for moon base and general enough to be used in other places, that would be valuable. Another area where the current stone tiles look a bit out of place and alternates might be good is Swamp. 18:23:01 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-1149-g4505690ab0 (34) 18:26:07 <10PleasingFungus> hm 18:26:18 <10PleasingFungus> presumably it'd have more of a 'moon base' theme than a 'moon rock' theme 18:26:28 <10PleasingFungus> since we usually have stone be worked stone, as opposed to raw rock 18:42:09 <13Sastreii> swamp stone tile you say? i'll check it out, i have never noticed. (since i can barely clear lair before dying lol) in the meantime i was wandering with wizmode in all the wizlabs (there's an option to choose a specific one or i have to explore them one by one? the key is alt-5 and then 8 but it seems i can't really choose), and i saw some oldies like flesh golem, Zonguldrok (which is called Antiqu 18:42:10 lich), the hellbinder and all the statues in the wucad-mu lab (those are so old that they're still using the old draconian tile) 18:44:10 <09gammafunk> @Sastreii in wizardmode you can do &P and then enter a map name, so for wizlabs these are all of the form wizlab_FOO where FOO is the name of the wizard, so wizlab_lehudib for moon base. If you want to see the list of map names: 18:44:21 <09gammafunk> !lg * recentish wizlab s=map 18:44:22 <04Cerebot> 659 games for * (recentish wizlab): 126x wizlab_cloud, 103x wizlab_demon, 99x wizlab_lehudib, 86x wizlab_doroklohe, 71x wizlab_cigotuvi, 63x wizlab_iskenderun, 61x wizlab_wucad, 25x wizlab_zonguldrok, 25x wizlab_golubria 18:44:31 <09gammafunk> all those names you see there 18:44:50 <09gammafunk> so &P then enter wizlab_golubra to place golubria, etc 18:46:14 <13Sastreii> whoa that's really time saving, thanks! 18:47:08 <09gammafunk> @PleasingFungus yes, that's what I was saying; the current tile is basically "moon rock" because it was based on rock tile, at at minimum we'd like it to convey "moon stone". It could be something vaguely futuristic, but it might be good to have some general idea we could reuse in other places for alternate stone. However I'm not sure what that would be, exactly. 18:48:40 <13Sastreii> also doroklohe's tomb doesn't have a proper boss, right? 18:48:53 <13Sastreii> i think it's the only one who doesn't 18:49:02 <09gammafunk> it has a greater mummy "boss" or an elec golem "boss", yeah, but these are not unique monsters 18:49:24 <09gammafunk> @Sastreii golubria also doesn't have a unique boss, just the tentacle 18:49:45 <09gammafunk> if you just mean boss as in "strongest monster", yes, doroklohe does, either royal mummy or elec golem 18:49:54 <09gammafunk> I called it greater mummy above but it's called royal mummy now 18:49:58 <13Sastreii> yeah i ment an unique one 18:50:10 <09gammafunk> right, golubria and doroklohe don't 18:50:33 <09gammafunk> nor iskenderun 18:51:53 <09gammafunk> it does depend on what you mean by "unique" 18:51:53 <09gammafunk> unique as in named monsters like sigmund etc? none of those are actually uniques in that sense 18:51:53 <10PleasingFungus> this is a profound lack of respect for THE HELLBINDER 18:51:58 <09gammafunk> unique as in "can only be found in this map"? most do have a map-unique monster as a boss, but not all 18:52:00 <10PleasingFungus> to say nothing of the cloud mage 18:52:10 <09gammafunk> yeah, those aren't even crawl uniques iirc 18:52:14 <09gammafunk> don't generate a milestone 18:52:24 <09gammafunk> but they are unique to the map 18:53:09 <09gammafunk> so in terms of unique "boss" tiles, you can't really make one for: dorklohe, golubria, iskenderun 18:53:41 <13Sastreii> yeah unfotunately i'm aware of that 18:58:04 <10PleasingFungus> we could change the maps....................... 18:58:16 <10PleasingFungus> iskenderun in particular is not a very good map 18:58:22 <10PleasingFungus> golubria's fine. 19:02:13 <09gammafunk> there's definitely been talk of revamping iskenderun 19:02:31 <09gammafunk> but I mean, I don't think the problem with that map is its lack of a boss 19:03:39 <09gammafunk> dorklohe's two sets is kind of nice for variety, but it does perhaps clash a bit with the theme, and I'm not sure what a unique boss monster would do for that map per se 19:09:32 <13Sastreii> lol it works but makes the game crash 19:10:17 <13Sastreii> wow apparently it corrupts the save file too 19:14:21 <13Sastreii> ok it can be done with &L 19:16:11 <09gammafunk> oh ok 19:16:18 <09gammafunk> yeah it's possible you need to do that for encompass maps 19:16:31 <09gammafunk> I seem to recall using it with &P, hrm 19:16:47 <09gammafunk> yeah &P works for me 19:17:09 <09gammafunk> but &L seems to work fine as well 19:25:43 <09hellmonk> golubria's end fight is not amazing either tbh 19:25:56 <09hellmonk> it's trivial if you have a way to hit the tentacle from out of its range 19:27:13 <09hellmonk> rest of the map is good though 19:34:42 <09gammafunk> I have some other problems with that map in terms of its monster set and overall challenge, but yeah that's partly related to the boss fight 19:34:53 <09gammafunk> the other part is the monster set in the rooms is just a bit too weak in general 19:35:39 <09gammafunk> the tentacle fight is a neat idea that'd be fun to try to improve somehow 19:36:06 <09gammafunk> the awkward part is the whole "you do not want to melee monsters with af_chaos" but it kind of works since the tentacle has this huge hit area you can safely go after 19:36:16 <09gammafunk> or relatively safely 19:36:38 <09gammafunk> maybe it's just a bit too safe, but I like the concept of "avoid the tentacle end" 19:37:01 <09gammafunk> makes me sort of think that it's possibly the only cool potential aspect of tentacle monster design 22:52:53 03mgdelmonte02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1922 * 0.27-a0-1065-ge8b7f44: bugfix 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8b7f445496b 23:04:39 New branch created: pull/1949 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1949 23:04:39 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1949 * 0.27-a0-1141-g728fcf1: New volcano map: zot springs 10(73 minutes ago, 1 file, 59+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/728fcf1807eb 23:04:39 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1949 * 0.27-a0-1142-g656b0b5: Deep elf pyromancer volcano. 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 37+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/656b0b5101dc 23:04:39 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1949 * 0.27-a0-1143-g1c465f3: Fix an incorrect glyph in hellmonk_smoking_crater 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c465f39deb7