01:21:56 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4135-g7666618ddd
01:34:36 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1065-ge809cff456 (34)
01:53:35 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1065-ge809cff456
02:53:19 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1065-ge809cff456
03:30:42 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4135-g7666618ddd
03:31:53 <Kelbell> Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-258-gb5f9d521f8
06:31:43 <Nivim> How hard would it be to just make ?ID stop spawning (instances replaced with nothing, if you're worried about loot distribution) once a character has identified all items?
06:46:17 <jilles> they could also become greyed out as permanently useless
07:46:50 <Yermak> Was evilmike_arrival_come_back made as the trap for adventurous formicids who likes to dig right from the start?
10:16:45 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> it's not particularly hard to mark ID useless once everything's ID'd, it's also just not quite trivial (I took a quick look at it a few weeks ago)
10:17:04 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> think it's a reasonable move to make if we're happy with the current ID system otherwise (no idea if we are?)
10:28:26 <advil> I think marking them useless is better than stopping spawning, w.r.t stable seeding
10:29:15 <advil> there are hacks you could do for seed stability like just make them vanish later, but it's probably not worth it
12:11:31 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> agree
13:44:36 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> Unrand ideas from korean community, translated courtesy of sdynet: https://github.com/sdynet/crawl/wiki/Unrand-Idea
13:46:06 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> lear's hauberk suggestion is funny
13:47:40 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> as is autumn katana
14:11:08 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> heh, i like the katana idea, yeah
14:11:08 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> feels very edgy
14:11:08 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> the cutlass casting auto-tukima’s is a fun idea
14:11:45 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> lol @ the morg suggestion
14:12:41 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i wish crawl's loot system supported 'early game unrands'
14:13:10 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> something that was interesting early on but didn't have to be powerful enough for 'endgame'
14:13:24 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> by 'supported' i guess i mean 'could consistently deliver to the player at a relevant time'
14:13:29 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> oh, yeah
14:13:32 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> could do something funny with vaults, maybe
14:13:36 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> you could
14:13:41 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> think that's basically how to do it
14:13:47 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> early guarded unrand vaults
14:13:59 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> and maybe mark them as no_gen otherwise
14:14:01 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> or w/e the syntax is
14:14:57 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> although I'm not sure how interesting those really art; feels like you'd have a pretty strong tension between designing interesting effects that did in fact end up being strong nearly all game on one hand and making it truly an unrand that was only good in a limited portion of the game on the other
14:15:07 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> but maybe there could be something there
14:15:39 <Discord|> <09g​ammafunk> I guess if you controlled their distribution carefully enough there's not much concern about "flooding" the game with pretty good early weapons
14:31:52 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i think lear’s is a good example of a design that works
14:31:58 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> as an early game unrand
14:33:34 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> plausible to me there’s more good design space there
14:49:38 <advil> I could imagine something slightly more elaborate where unrands can come with a depth distribution/spec like monsters or vaults
14:52:22 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> ooh
14:58:03 <advil> probably would be best used sparingly but I could imagine other fun applications, e.g. branch themed unrands or something
14:59:17 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> fancy
15:08:12 <advil> is there still a way to get sick?
15:08:19 <advil> I'm not seeing one
15:08:35 <Discord|> <05k​ate> ancient zymes in abyss are the only one i think
15:09:47 <advil> ah, maybe that one doesn't use you.disease?
15:09:49 <advil> oh nm found it
15:10:19 <Discord|> <05k​ate> yeah, it's weird because disease has a ton of old implementation baggage from when it was widespread i think
15:12:03 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i'd been meaning to rework it somehow to make zymes apply a new -regen status (that can be dispelled normally) and remove all the disease-specific code, so that it's not this weird one-off late thing that can be healed with !curing
15:50:28 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-909-gdcb2423: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dcb2423ea090
15:50:28 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-910-g93f24e9: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93f24e9e812f
15:50:28 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-911-g4167f0c: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4167f0cf071c
15:50:28 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-912-geaaa2fa: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(79 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eaaa2fa14411
15:50:28 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-913-ga0f04f5: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(52 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0f04f563b51
15:56:22 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-914-g0ce3d62: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ce3d628a7f2
15:56:22 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-915-g187544d: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/187544d0eb2b
15:56:22 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-916-gf6ce825: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f6ce825f9886
16:03:44 <advil> it might be a good idea to do stuff like this locally and batch the commits
16:04:34 <advil> every individual commit triggers a notification for people on the project (e.g. emails for people who have them turned on)
16:04:41 <advil> unless they are batched
16:04:53 <advil> (those all could be one commit though I think)
16:05:23 <advil> I guess they might not be in the chat right now so I'm sort of talking to myself
16:05:56 <advil> really wish github had like a digest setting
16:08:07 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-917-gb8b8d34: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b8b8d3480f56
16:08:07 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-918-g43d8897: Update crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/43d88975a6d0
16:08:32 <Discord|> <12e​bering> Or the web UI suggested batching review comments by default
16:10:46 <advil> oh, I see, is this them a result of accepting your suggested changes?
16:11:19 <advil> haven't seen this feature in action before, but I did notice the "co-author" thing in the commit
16:12:04 <advil> looks like there is an "add suggestion to batch" thing that they could use, but yeah it might seem easier to click on the "commit suggestion" button
16:15:06 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1066-g29160ea: Mark diamond obelisks as not a threat 10(14 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29160eaed211
16:18:05 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1066-g29160eaed2 (34)
17:14:08 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-919-g58854b7: Reorder vaults by altar count 10(77 seconds ago, 1 file, 801+ 803-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/58854b70caa9
17:20:00 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-920-g6f9777b: Fix catwalk vault 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f9777b63d92
17:26:17 <advil> hm, should travel_key_stop apply to rest delays? It currently seems to, intentionally; but one factor in lici's uncontrollable death in 12569 recently was almost certainly that that prevented them from ending the infinite rest delay
17:27:45 <advil> kinda wonder why this setting is ever a good idea
17:29:10 <advil> setting it to be false, that is
17:43:26 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-921-g6786b3c: Remove surrounding walls and add transparent tag 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 83+ 96-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6786b3ce3389
17:43:26 <Cheibriados> 03mainiacjoe02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1858 * 0.27-a0-922-g239fa8e: Open up overflow_paths 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/239fa8ecfc7d
18:00:08 <advil> huh...can it possibly be true that force more isn't checked unless there is a message interrupt??
18:01:19 <advil> I'm definitely seeing this in my testing and it seems really bad
18:01:48 <advil> because travel on its default setting doesn't let messages interrupt it
18:02:12 <advil> so for example zot clock msgs won't stop travel (though I'm about to fix this particular case in a way that gets around this issue)
18:02:37 <advil> by default at least
18:03:18 <Yermak> Is there any real case where forcemore not stopping travel is something you want?
18:03:29 <advil> maybe this is rc dependent
18:03:53 <Yermak> hmm?
18:04:21 <advil> I deleted a bunch of the rc I was using and force mores started working again
18:07:10 <Yermak> All? Do you mean any force_more is designed to stop travel unless rc screws it?
18:08:01 <advil> right now, under some settings that I haven't pinned down, force more is not stopping travel
18:11:14 <advil> ok, this isn't settings related, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't
18:12:08 <Yermak> My force_more on form ending also doesn't stop travel.
18:14:05 <advil> it is something about the delay top, because rest delays very consistently are stopped
18:14:19 <advil> *delay type
18:16:57 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> Ah, going from ‘why doesn’t this work’ to ‘how did anything ever work?’
18:17:08 <advil> pretty much
18:17:25 <advil> I think what I am sometimes seeing is that if something independently interrupts the travel delay on the same turn, the force more triggers a more
18:17:58 <advil> this lici bug is a pretty impressive confluence of issues though
18:18:59 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i don't think force more is intended to stop travel ever? that's what runrest interrupt is for
18:20:22 <Discord|> <05k​ate> runrest_stop_message that is
18:22:05 <Discord|> <05k​ate> i could see the argument that adding something to force_more_message should also add it to runrest_stop_message, that would save a bunch of rc duplication, but currently they're implemented as separate things
18:22:25 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-1066-g29160eaed2 (34)
18:23:27 <advil> well that certainly describes the current behavior, this doesn't seem to be documented
18:25:11 <advil> they aren't even in the same file in dat/defaults
18:28:55 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1067-g8b38eeb: Force-interrupt all delays on zot clock messages 10(39 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8b38eeb0f3be
18:28:55 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1068-g1d5596e: Add zot clock alerts to default runrest_ignore 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d5596e97f6e
18:28:55 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1069-g97754ad: Add portal alerts to default runrest_ignore 10(52 seconds ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/97754add85f5
18:29:54 <advil> er, that should have been runrest_stop
18:30:01 <advil> in the commit title
18:30:47 <Yermak> Oh, the last one is really nice.
18:31:12 <advil> there's probably other stuff that's out of sync, these files look really dissimilar (though there's plenty of force more things that aren't relevant to travel)
18:32:18 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1069-g97754add85 (34)
19:01:19 <advil> in case anyone cares, I just dismissed that dependabot alert, I think it's irrelevant to us (it's just a dependency that is only used for CI tests)
19:05:54 <gammafunk> can we convert to C++20 now? So I can use string::starts_with and string::ends_with()
19:06:37 <advil> our homegrown versions aren't good enough for you? :-P
19:07:17 <gammafunk> we have some?!
19:07:24 <gammafunk> I was going to use string::find
19:07:29 <gammafunk> but if we have some, happy to use
19:07:32 <gammafunk> I have a string
19:07:34 <advil> !source stringutil.h
19:07:34 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/stringutil.h
19:07:40 <advil> starts_with and ends_with in there
19:07:59 <gammafunk> very cool, thanks
19:08:59 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1070-ge4650c3: refactor: remove some more hunger references 10(4 minutes ago, 7 files, 2+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e4650c3cbe2f
19:16:22 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-1071-ga85bd95: docs: Document force_more_message vs runrest_stop_message 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a85bd9520d00
19:19:32 <Yermak> standard_colours.txt still has some food-related stuff
19:33:35 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1070-ge4650c3cbe (34)
19:40:52 <Nivim> Any reason for Isk's Mystic Blast causing a prompt around Ancestors even though they still dodge it fine? (Can they get pushed back even if they dodge at higher power?)
19:43:47 <gammafunk> this is also a problem for fedhas allies
19:44:06 <gammafunk> I've been meaning to look into that; they get similar prompting, and I'm not sure if they actually get angry and/or get moved or not
19:44:23 <gammafunk> ideally they'd be ignored
19:46:24 <Nivim> The ancestor at least doesn't get moved at low power.
19:46:54 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-1071-ga85bd9520d (34)