01:34:33 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-906-g0a00ce863d (34) 01:55:36 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-906-g0a00ce863d 02:53:49 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-906-g0a00ce863d 02:58:30 <09gammafunk> sorry yall, looks like bridge was since yesterday early morning, but it's back up 02:58:59 <09gammafunk> not sure why, no errors on bot output side, other than an irc connection 03:30:42 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4135-g7666618ddd 04:30:17 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 10:24:57 <10PleasingFungus> heh 10:25:10 <10PleasingFungus> i hadn’t realized that was what you meant 10:25:30 <10PleasingFungus> sounds amusing when things go wrong, but... is it still a l9 spell? 10:25:59 <10PleasingFungus> (one option is to do whatever we think makes it interesting and lower its level if needed, btw) 10:26:38 <06advil> oh I guess that explains why it was only irc chatting I saw yesterday 10:32:51 <06advil> still not fully convinced that a0 needs a nerf, I've enjoyed reading this reddit discussion because it's interesting how opinions can be so divergent, but it's become clear that a lot of the complaining is driven by specific people having knives out for the devs rather than clear thinking about the spell, and also theorycrafting 10:33:06 <06advil> I do agree that it has an anticlimactic playfeel, but I just don't know if a nerf is the solution to that 10:33:17 <06advil> (re the discord-only discussion yesterday) 10:44:12 -!- tiobot is now known as Guest5867 10:51:55 New branch created: pull/1882 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1882 10:51:55 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1882 * 0.27-a0-907-ga064533: Allow detransforming over water if flying 10(38 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0645336f6f8 10:51:55 New branch created: pull/1883 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1883 10:51:55 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1883 * 0.27-a0-907-gdf21076: Unmeld statueform merfolk boots when leaving water 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/df21076ccbdc 11:02:47 <10PleasingFungus> feels like some kind of lateral shift might be better 11:02:49 <10PleasingFungus> buff, nerf. nerf, buff 11:03:53 <10PleasingFungus> eg maybe it doesn't make huge noise anymore if we go with ebering's channeling suggestion 11:03:53 <10PleasingFungus> (it still makes big noise, right?) 11:03:53 <10PleasingFungus> spellpower could reduce channel time instead 11:03:53 <12ebering> yeah, my suggestion as written included the big noise 11:05:26 <10PleasingFungus> feels less necessary with channelerf 11:05:32 yeah, probably 11:06:38 I do think the people determined to hate it are largely ignoring the impact of the noise (which was kind of unexpectedly interesting in my playing experience) 11:09:44 <10PleasingFungus> does seem like an interesting combo between 'spell that works great 1:1' and 'spell side effect that makes it much more likely that you'll fight many : 1' 11:10:23 <10PleasingFungus> maybe the existence of fridge makes that less relevant tho 11:10:28 yeah, I'm pretty sure the people who are saying it trivializes pan haven't actually tried casting it in pan very much, where if you aren't tactically prepared for it the noise seemed hugely impactful to me (definitely got swarmed with ds at times when I tried to use it carelessly) 11:11:24 or they're just narrowing their definition of what "trivializes" means, that definitely has been going on a lot in these discussions 11:11:38 <10PleasingFungus> trivial optimal 11:11:48 <12ebering> There's definitely a fair number of goalpost shifts where "assuming you use tactics" gets put in deeper down 11:12:09 right, and then that assumption is never applied back to other L9s 11:12:38 also btw I thought the ice pillar thing was also extremely tactically interesting where I expected going in for it to be pure flavor 11:12:52 <10PleasingFungus> ??curvature 11:12:52 <04Cerebot> curvature[1/2]: WHY DO YOU KEEP TRYING TO PUT CONES IN CRAWL'S GEOMETRY, THEY DON'T AND CAN'T WORK ON A CHEBYSHEV GRID, AND WHAT ON EARTH IS THE POINT OF THE BLOCKS OF ICE 11:13:31 I mean sometimes it just amounted to flavor, but a lot of times it could be used in interesting ways to control enemy pathing 11:17:34 <12ebering> anyway, the playfeel issue I think is that most of the tactics happen without monsters in los under the current spell (escape path planning, distance to the black, corner positions, noise mitigation), which means while they must be done they don't feel like they're a part of the "fight". The preparatory moving done, the "fight" happens and its anticlimactic because the preparatory work isn't 11:17:35 connected with the fight with the particular monster. 11:18:04 <12ebering> and I think this playfeel issue is there even when you dull the knives and put all the tactics in plain sight 11:18:25 yeah, I agree with the playfeel issue 11:18:48 <12ebering> the other L9 spells have their own noise and location considerations (esp if you're hitting out of los with your firestorms) but also at least have some tit-for-tat with the baddy on screen often enough 11:19:07 <08nicolae> perhaps if you did both a nerf and a buff, that would be a nuff for the complainers 11:19:21 <10PleasingFungus> !!!!!!! 11:19:22 lol 11:23:11 hm also even though I said I wasn't sure about nerfs here's a really simple nerf idea, what if it did randomly 33-133% (slightly made up numbers) of the enemy's maxhp damage, noise proportional to damage 11:23:38 where instakill triggers the ice pillar effect 11:24:35 that would get the potential for exchange of damage that people seem to want, also give summoners a chance to protect themselves. Not sure if it's an L9 effect though 11:26:11 maybe on that scheme the %s would scale with spellpower too 11:28:56 <08nicolae> Relative Zero 11:28:57 ice singularity -> l9, abs 0 is now abs 1 and l8 11:30:58 <12ebering> hm. that makes it closer to a traditional damage spell just with the target random nearest; 11:33:10 yep, it might even be worse than something like LCS at that scheme, not sure 11:33:51 but my thinking was something like "guarantee instakill within 1-n casts", as an alternative to "guarantee instakill within 1-n aut" 12:50:12 it could be an extremely localized snowstorm over their head, that does enough damage to ice most things in 1-2 turns and panlords in 3-4 12:50:21 mockup: https://imgur.com/Ol0BmdC.png 14:05:11 <10PleasingFungus> dang 14:32:01 03Aliscans02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-907-g9722c47: Remove Maud from montitle.txt. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9722c47da732 14:35:28 <08nicolae> leave it in as a joke for anyone reading through the montitle file 14:35:45 <10PleasingFungus> too late! 14:41:11 <12ebering> forgot that would be funny rip 14:43:11 <03wheals> Who? 14:47:00 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-907-g9722c47da7 (34) 17:02:05 03ukdong9002 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-908-g3444a67: Just one Gnrine 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 26+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3444a674c5c4 17:02:05 03Shapermc02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-909-g0721f30: New ecumenical altar vaults 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 110+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0721f309d17f 17:16:55 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-909-g0721f309d1 (34) 17:35:53 advil: I watched that game jam link you posted using crawl tiles. The last game was awesome. Basically Doom with crawl graphics. Shows what the 32x32 pixel tiles look like when applied in 3d. Very 'retro' 17:49:51 yeah, it was surprising to me how well 32x32 did 17:55:06 New branch created: pull/1884 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1884 17:55:06 03Aliscans02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1884 * 0.27-a0-902-g0f51a07: Let the player create both Maggie and Margery in wizard mode. 10(7 minutes ago, 6 files, 25+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f51a07797dc 18:22:49 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-909-g0721f309d1 (34) 21:38:23 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:55:17 <08nicolae> just to double check: quad damages do not belong in any real-game shops, c/d 23:41:05 <10PleasingFungus> lmao 23:44:52 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_