00:02:28 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-660-g90476cec82 (34) 00:03:27 04Build failed for 08master @ 90476cec 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/656293991 02:17:53 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-660-g90476cec82 (34) 02:20:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:20:38 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:30:42 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4053-g610ae06132 03:39:36 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-188-g1bb4725dbf 05:47:53 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 13:08:08 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-660-g90476ce (34) 13:42:08 split (L22 MiMo) ASSERT(!fail || testbits(abil.flags, abflag::hostile)) in 'ability.cc' at line 1761 failed. (Depths:3) 14:35:39 !crashlog 14:35:41 23455. split, XL22 MiMo, T:53907 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/split/crash-split-20210316-174201.txt 14:49:01 %git 7d0f55a9017a9 14:49:01 07Naruni02 {ebering} * 0.26-a0-588-g7d0f55a: Tweak enslave soul when used on clones (12340) 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d0f55a9017a 14:52:23 hm, also isn't there a potential crash there (the next check considers mons == nullptr)? 15:15:53 someone added a nullptr check since that commit 15:18:08 i think it just needs a fail_check in the case where you're aiming at an illusion 15:18:22 03kate-02 07* 0.27-a0-661-gca034ae: Fix a crash when trying to enslave a Mara clone 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca034ae587ba 15:20:52 i don't see any problems with the nullptr thing, i could be missing something different there though 15:21:36 yeah geekosaur was just looking at the commit I linked, which didn't at the time of commit check for nullptr mons 15:21:50 aha right 15:33:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-661-gca034ae587 (34) 17:38:03 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus you mentioned you were thinking about poison mechanics? 17:38:54 <12ebering> I've started my snake tinkering and wonder if/how/will that interact 17:38:58 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, i was thinking about an usk-like god that turns some damage taken into poison 17:39:09 <12ebering> oh wild 17:39:13 <10PleasingFungus> and then lets you spend that poison as an ability cost 17:39:36 <12ebering> probably will interact badly with my plan to accelerate poison metabolism 17:39:48 <10PleasingFungus> i can make the god slow it down 17:39:55 <10PleasingFungus> like chei 17:39:59 <10PleasingFungus> nbd 17:40:11 <12ebering> the merge conflict cost though 17:40:12 <12ebering> 😉 17:40:17 <10PleasingFungus> lol 17:40:49 <10PleasingFungus> hoping to avoid changing how poison works in general 17:40:55 <10PleasingFungus> we’ll see i guess 17:44:43 <03wheals> dpeg's lost spider god, found at last 17:44:43 <10PleasingFungus> nooo 17:44:53 <10PleasingFungus> it’s actually kimchi’s hydra poison god, after going through a game of telephone 17:45:10 <10PleasingFungus> (i’m not entirely clear on what kimchi’s version does...) 17:45:39 <10PleasingFungus> (apparently it makes you drop poison clouds on yourself? dubious) 17:45:41 <03wheals> that way you can't be accused of stealing their ideas 17:45:48 <10PleasingFungus> exactly! 18:33:56 <08Lasty> The interaction with actual poison might be ungood -- it might be better to use a not-poison that works better so that you can implement it in the way that works best for gameplay. Overloading poison means this god could unhelpfully 1) make player seek/avoid rPois to game the god's powers; 2) encourage the player seek self-poisoning and/or lure poisoning monsters into specific situations; 3) make it 18:33:56 hard to adjust poison mechanics w/o also changing this god's power level. 19:11:50 03mgdelmonte02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1813 * 0.27-a0-675-gf746896: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' 10(6 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f74689674a08 19:23:45 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.27-a0-661-gca034ae587 (34) 19:57:11 <10PleasingFungus> i liked actual poison for ui reasons (the relatively clear display on your hp bar), though you could display it as a flay style number instead. the god would strip all sources of rpois/poison immunity from you, as a conduct 19:58:24 03Aliscans02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1826 * 0.27-a0-639-g39f065e: Sort known artefacts in shops using DESC_QUALNAME. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39f065ee522b 19:58:24 03Aliscans02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1826 * 0.27-a0-640-g7ad96c5: Delete ORDER_TYPE. Change ORDER_DEFAULT to use its label. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ad96c58677b 19:58:41 <10PleasingFungus> (2) is interesting but suspect it’s rarely right to try to take extra damage? idk 19:58:41 <10PleasingFungus> (3) is fair 19:58:41 <08nicolae> god looks at a gargoyle, confused on how to make poison affect it, just decides to go BZT and turn the gargoyle into a real boy 19:58:41 <08nicolae> or girl 19:58:41 <10PleasingFungus> not sure how big a downside special casing this god’s poison mechanism would be 19:59:09 <10PleasingFungus> poison that eats away at stone and dissolves mummified flesh! poison that kills gods... 19:59:50 Isn't there an artefact like that? 20:00:48 <08nicolae> fr ru idea: sacrifice . sacrifice one of your beneficial species mutations. gargoyles can sacrifice rPois or rElec. you can sacrifice a good aptitude. demonspawn can sacrifice their demonspawn mutations. deep dwarves can sac damage shaving. 20:00:58 <08nicolae> i don't know what the something in the ability name should be. 20:01:27 <10PleasingFungus> would definitely simplify things if it wasn’t poison but instead was an extra short term resource you got from taking damage, but it feels a bit less mechanically juicy then... unsure. if it’s damage over time that’s not poison, the ui is very very bad (resting etc) 20:01:50 <10PleasingFungus> aliscans: i think not in mainline 20:01:59 <10PleasingFungus> kimchi has serpent tooth or something 20:03:26 <10PleasingFungus> maybe i should do an actual writeup 20:03:39 <10PleasingFungus> rather than dribbling bits and pieces out here 20:11:52 Sorry, I was confused. Just wondering something, though: If a poison affects stone, does that include stone walls? 20:30:55 <10PleasingFungus> heh 20:31:33 <10PleasingFungus> option (a): yes, but the walls are so thick the damage is purely cosmetic option (b): no, living stone only option (c): the poison eats away at your miiind, man 21:37:27 New branch created: pull/1833 (8 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 21:37:28 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-244-g7bba9a5: Generate job data from yaml files 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 35 files, 1094+ 383-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7bba9a546bb8 21:37:28 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-245-g7055efc: Generate job groups on the character selection screen from yaml files 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 30 files, 139+ 158-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7055efc2cf3a 21:37:28 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-246-g0760d71: Add documentation for background creation using yaml files 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 3 files, 36+ 123-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0760d71e0bc2 21:37:28 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-247-ge9bf5a9: Move weapon_choice and job_def definitions out of job-data.h 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 4 files, 35+ 24-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e9bf5a910527 21:37:28 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-248-g34fa9d0: Convert weapon_choice to an enum class and abstract the yaml field 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 18 files, 41+ 41-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/34fa9d0025d0 21:37:28 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-249-gd90d05a: Move some common functions out of job-gen and species-gen 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 3 files, 85+ 129-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d90d05af00a8 21:37:28 03BlinkOfAEye02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-250-g0fae7c0: Update zlib 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0fae7c072733 21:37:28 03BlinkOfAEye02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1833 * 0.24-a0-251-g8dbc134: Create delver.yaml 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 26+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8dbc13425648 21:52:23 <10PleasingFungus> @Lasty https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Poison-God-Proposal i wrote a thing 21:53:19 <08Lasty> Checking it out 21:53:53 <08Lasty> Flavor question: Ithoriphede is a god born from the dreams of things that scuttle and slither in dark places. It transforms its followers' wounds into poison and allows them to use that poison as a resource. Why would the things that scuttle and slither in the darkness want their wounds to turn into poison? Or does it do something else for them? 21:55:12 <10PleasingFungus> they just think about poison way too much 21:55:12 <10PleasingFungus> poison poison poison 21:55:12 <10PleasingFungus> so their god is all about that, whether they like it or not! 21:55:12 <10PleasingFungus> it’s not always fun having a god 21:57:29 <08Lasty> Your points about 0* make sense. I think they make a compelling case for either adding powers to 0* or else starting players at 1*. Will think on that as I read through the rest. 21:58:45 <08Lasty> Maybe the "flagship" ability could move to 0*. It wouldn't give you the ability to use any powers, but at least it would slightly offset the cost of worshipping the god. 21:58:59 <10PleasingFungus> maybe! 22:05:49 <10PleasingFungus> moved 22:10:07 <08Lasty> The power set looks very strong as written: at 1* you get a powerful ranged attack whose cost is that you actually take the damage you already took. At 3* you get on-demand berserk-without-downsides for modest piety. Closest comparisons seem like: Makhleb gives you a weak ranged attack at 1* that scales w/ invo, costs health, and tops out at quite low power; Trog gives unlimited berserk at 1* for no 22:10:07 piety/invo but all the downsides; Oka gives a very strong buff at 1* for some piety and requires a few levels of Invo to last any real time. Qaz dpesm 22:10:35 <10PleasingFungus> and then the 5* is borg's without downside! 22:10:38 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, maybe tuned a little high right now 22:11:22 <08Lasty> nope, 2* 22:11:31 <10PleasingFungus> ? 22:11:38 <08Lasty> sorry re: Qaz 22:11:39 <10PleasingFungus> oh 22:11:47 <10PleasingFungus> i meant re ithoriphede 22:11:49 <10PleasingFungus> sorry 22:12:41 <08Lasty> haha, I got you, I just said my self-correction confusingly 22:12:41 <08Lasty> Anyway, yeah, seems highly tuned. Even the modifiers to basic poison seem potentially baller -- poison tends to be quite good at killing the things it affects already. 22:13:22 <08Lasty> Right now the god feels very well-rounded: offense, defense, strong passives, etc. I think this god should be more opinionated and lean more heavily in a direction. 22:14:02 <10PleasingFungus> certainly lots of dials we could turn to weaken the god. i guess the bigger question for me is about whether we want to use poison or unlink it and make it the god of suffering or decay or something 22:14:50 <08Lasty> Oh, one more note on the current power set: no need to gift a poison brand. They're already super common. I think it's an unnecessary piece of the power set. 22:14:54 <10PleasingFungus> heh, yes, opinions are good, though w a strong conduct your god can be more well rounded 22:15:10 <08Lasty> Yeah, agreed -- then the opinion is the confust 22:15:24 <08Lasty> Chei is a great example there 22:15:52 <08nicolae> make it "can't heal without my say-so" god, it counts the accumulated damage 22:15:53 <10PleasingFungus> are they common on high tier weapons? i just want to see someone excited to venom brand their broad axe 22:16:03 <10PleasingFungus> agreed! 22:16:29 <10PleasingFungus> (or venom brand their double sword or w/e) 22:17:01 <08Lasty> But yeah, I think your question about theme is a key one. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I think having the god tie into poison thematically is great, and creates more interactions, which could be a fun organic design space add. On the other hand, all those interactions make the god much harder to balance / design over time. So, in a sense it depends on how much work you want this design to be. 22:17:33 <08Lasty> Scroll of brand weapon is pretty common and gives venom as a common output 22:18:30 <10PleasingFungus> ??brand weapon 22:18:30 <04Cerebot> scroll of brand weapon[1/2]: Adds a random brand to a non-artefact, non-blowgun weapon (see[2]). Rebranding away from wielded distortion does not cause a distortion unwield effect. 22:18:30 <08Lasty> (pretty common as in you often get a few over a 3 rune game) 22:18:30 <10PleasingFungus> ??brand weapon[2 22:18:30 <04Cerebot> scroll of brand weapon[2/2]: Brands melee weapons to: 19.0% flaming, 19.0% freezing, 15.8% vorpal, 12.7% venom, 9.49% drain, 9.49% electrocution, 7.59% protection, 5.06% vampiricism, 1.90% chaos. Ranged weapons: 27.5% flaming, 27.5% freezing, 19.2% venom, 19.2% vorpal, 4.2% electrocution, 2.5% chaos. Reroll if same as current brand or disliked by your god. 22:18:30 <10PleasingFungus> 13% venom not that high... 22:18:30 <08Lasty> Wow, I thought venom was in the most-common tier 22:18:30 <08Lasty> oops 22:19:01 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, not core 22:19:13 <10PleasingFungus> to the design or the discussion 22:19:21 <10PleasingFungus> this is very fair 22:19:23 <08Lasty> The current branding gods give impossible-to-rebrand brands (pain, holy, distortion) 22:19:55 <10PleasingFungus> mm 22:20:00 <10PleasingFungus> fair 22:20:40 <10PleasingFungus> it feels in the 'roguelike spirit' to try to tie into a bunch of other systems, but it's definitely more work - even the basic % damage taken as poison conduct is really tricky with this approach, whereas it'd be very easy with a separate status. my heart is torn 22:21:13 <08Lasty> Yeah. It doesn't help that poison is already a complex, kinda weird system 22:21:39 <10PleasingFungus> re power level and all-around-ness, probably the first things i'd cut would be the poison buffing passives (the damage scaling one first, then the affect poison immune guys after). they have a high potential to distract from the part i'm very excited about, spending poison as a resource, in favor of OTR and venom launcher nonsense 22:22:09 <08Lasty> And a lot of poison-giving sources are bonkers -- poison darts, curare, OTR, etc. Buffing those to hit more monsters and harder may be too much. 22:22:23 <08Lasty> Heck, just removing monster poison immunity makes Mephitic Cloud bonkers 22:22:34 <10PleasingFungus> heh 22:22:36 <08Lasty> Yeah, agreed 22:22:55 <10PleasingFungus> it has a surprisingly high chance to affect our poor friend Antaeus 22:22:58 <10PleasingFungus> meph, that is 22:24:19 <08nicolae> maybe antaeus should have thought of that before becoming titan-lord of cocytus 22:24:29 <08Lasty> I think the most compelling aspects so far are 1) using the damage you take for an offensive burst and 2) using the damage you take for self-buffing (but not healing) 22:25:39 <10PleasingFungus> agreed 22:25:55 <10PleasingFungus> i liked the idea of a superpower that lets you actually heal but maybe that's design space better left unexplored 22:25:57 <08Lasty> In 1), if you keep the poison theme and the offensive bursts are poison-based, you'll still need to figure out how to have that damage be useful enough without trivializing everything with (e.g.) Meph 22:26:08 <10PleasingFungus> parrow??? 22:26:09 <04Cerebot> Level 6 conj/poison spell dealing 70% resistable damage and poisoning even poison-resistant natural creatures. Removed as a player spell in 0.25. 22:26:12 <10PleasingFungus> everyone loved parrow 22:26:42 <08nicolae> heal a tiny bit when a monster dies of your special poison in your los 22:26:58 <10PleasingFungus> heh 22:27:17 <08Lasty> Ok, here's a crazy pitch for a healing burst: the first time you die, you come back to life but permanently transformed. You become some sort of poison lich or something, and the abilities change to be more offensive, less defensive. More glass cannon-y. 22:27:57 <10PleasingFungus> i love crazy pitches 22:28:06 <10PleasingFungus> that sounds like you're trying to design two gods at once 22:28:09 <08Lasty> yeah :p 22:28:41 <10PleasingFungus> i'm reminded of when i was trying to come up with good designs for new super-orcs recently (super-orc-sorcerer and super-orc-high-priest), and hellmonk suggested "just have them summon a new, orc-themed 2" 22:28:51 <08nicolae> tbf a god who immediately kills you and resurrects you as some kind of badass thing would be a really cool hook 22:29:14 <10PleasingFungus> if my problem is that i can't come up with a good new monster design, just require me to come up with a third monster design 22:30:08 <10PleasingFungus> very theme! 22:31:10 <08nicolae> god who lets you change your species, maybe even include removed species for people who want to set a centaur record or something 22:31:47 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:32:19 <10PleasingFungus> god of mountain dwares 22:32:42 <08nicolae> exactly 22:32:51 <08nicolae> get real weird with it 22:33:08 <08nicolae> randspecies god 22:39:10 <08Lasty> Let me give a very rough pitch for this. All abilities deal non-typed damage. 0: damage into poison 1: toggle-able ability that spends your stacked poison as an irradiate-type short-range AOE when you hit an enemy in melee. Scales from light to moderate damage based on Invo, no piety cost. 2: active ability: pull enemy near you and stun it, take some self-damage, light piety cost. 3: active 22:39:11 ability: Current 1* ability. 4: poison damage procs half as fast on you. 5: transform if you die. On death, come back as poison lich. Can no longer drink or read. Health is reduced by 30%. 1: AOE range goes to 2, damage scales from moderate to heavy. 2: stun length and self-damage doubled. 3: damage increased, piety cost increased. 4: poison damage procs 1/4th as fast on you. 5*: passive: when damaged by an 22:39:12 enemy, deal damage proportional to current poison level to all enemies in LOS. 22:40:41 <08Lasty> I'm not at all sure this is a good idea, but here's my draft attempt at what something that wild could look like. 22:42:50 <08Lasty> (in this design, there are good odds you'd get lethal poisoning for a while and also be unable to fix it by drinking anything. Perhaps there could be a heal-on-kill for the poison lich form, tho that steps on Makhleb . . . also, regen might be nuts here) 22:43:49 <08nicolae> we have one god of death that lets you create undead, we have a second god of death that helps you with necromancy magic... here's an idea for a third god of death: as soon as you join them, you die. game over. 22:59:16 <10PleasingFungus> hm, does your piety also reset when you die? 22:59:16 <10PleasingFungus> it's definitely wild 22:59:16 <10PleasingFungus> having a hard time figuring out how to evaluate this 23:01:46 <10PleasingFungus> your suggested 1* is interesting 23:02:15 <10PleasingFungus> (also i'd recommend using triple backtick (```) block formatting for big posts like that? otherwise discord thinks your *s are markup) 23:02:39 <10PleasingFungus> not sure how i feel about this being a melee-directed god... i was sort of aiming with my abilities to be more melee/casting agnostic 23:02:50 <10PleasingFungus> but the idea of spending poison more passively might be interesting 23:36:19 <08Lasty> My thinking was that if one of the big abilities is a powerful ranged attack, this is most likely going to be a god that appeals to chars that need solid ranged attacks. We could instead make it trigger in some other way or do a different approach. 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-662-gf8ad8ab: Allow shop placement on D:1-3 10(31 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8ad8ab24528 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-663-gc2beb70: Legalize early rare scrolls. 10(31 hours ago, 1 file, 12+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2beb70d1432 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-664-g0dccfbd: Allow earlier book, manual, and staff generation. 10(31 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0dccfbd8cf2e 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-665-g69cf137: Adjust weapon subtype selection. 10(29 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69cf137300fa 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-666-g9dbe433: increase ball python melee damage by 1 10(28 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9dbe4339e496 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-667-g87fe7d4: reduce item generation in early dungeon 10(28 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/87fe7d4a8f97 23:36:49 03hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.27-a0-668-gb5737ff: Allow quokkas on D:1. 10(27 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5737ff2c0e6 23:38:22 <10PleasingFungus> that's fair 23:38:33 <08nicolae> arrival shops! 23:41:19 <10PleasingFungus> nice to have something to look forward to 🙂 23:47:16 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-668-gb5737ff2c0 (34) 23:51:49 04Build failed for 08master @ b5737ff2 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/659790230