00:26:13 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-511-gc95325c: Improve manifold/unrand messaging (dilly) 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 23+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c95325c3827b 00:33:57 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-511-gc95325c382 (34) 00:36:35 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.27-a0-512-g57cc695: Reword Forlorn mut 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/57cc69541000 00:46:53 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-512-g57cc695410 (34) 00:50:15 Ah, the eternal Jew that is Dungeon Crawl 00:51:47 04Build failed for 08master @ 57cc6954 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/616531725 00:51:55 -!- quilel is now known as Quilel 00:52:38 Look at these pathetic nignogs 01:04:29 oops 01:05:07 not sure that'll do much (they had already left) but ugh 01:35:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-512-g57cc695410 (34) 01:56:05 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-512-g57cc695410 02:17:22 03Aliscans02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-513-g46ec449: Don't make a note when the player finds an altar for a god the character can't worship. 10(9 hours ago, 8 files, 31+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/46ec449faf8f 02:23:02 Prompt to ignore useless item 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12532 by Nekoatl 02:45:39 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-513-g46ec449faf (34) 02:46:05 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.27-a0-512-g57cc695410 (34) 02:53:58 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.27-a0-513-g46ec449faf 03:37:58 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3944-gcf420f87c6 03:42:00 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:54:23 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-162-g09b4e489ee 05:40:32 -!- fiddlerwoaroof is now known as edwlan 05:47:55 -!- edwlan is now known as fiddlerwoaroof 05:49:22 -!- fiddlerwoaroof is now known as edwlan 05:49:34 -!- edwlan is now known as fiddlerwoaroof 08:05:17 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 09:15:35 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-514-gfb34250: Mark a vault as transparent 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb3425029c29 09:16:14 <12ebering> %git 544776af236b2f0e 09:16:14 <04Cerebot> advil * 0.26-a0-1026-g544776a: Mark minmay_two_paths as transparent (u/yigaxab397) (3 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/544776af236b 09:16:16 <12ebering> @advil your commit message here is prophetic 09:16:48 yes, at some point I want to change the behavior of @-less vaults 09:17:08 <12ebering> until then I'll content myself with sticking in transparent tags 09:18:10 %git 080276ff0c6a8 09:18:10 07advil02 * 0.26-a0-748-g080276f: Don't by default mask vault exits as opaque 10(4 months ago, 2 files, 25+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/080276ff0c6a 09:18:18 it turns out this commit only worked on explicit @s 09:18:45 even though +s act like @s if there are no @s 09:19:04 I still think the net change for that commit was positive in aggregate, but it has resulted in a whack a mole situation 09:19:35 more thorough, or really any, testing of non-transparent vaults (which is a bit involved to get right) would also help 09:19:48 long term I still dream of making transparent the default 09:20:15 <12ebering> It would probably be fine if the +s that act like @s got the same treatment as @s in 080276f 09:20:44 <12ebering> not sure how possible that is to do easily though 09:20:46 yeah, I am not sure if that is easy though 09:22:16 re spammers in here, if that is going to start happening we could consider making the channel +r; it has largely escaped freenode spam because it's unlisted but I suspect long run it'll be hard to have any irc channels that aren't +r 09:31:59 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-514-gfb3425029c (34) 09:56:52 !source _player_is_gnoll 09:56:52 Can't find _player_is_gnoll. 09:57:05 kind of laughing at this function, as much as I agree with the instinct 09:58:36 well, it has made my current task easier, so I shouldn't laugh 10:09:01 <10PleasingFungus> imo always laugh 10:09:10 <10PleasingFungus> laughter is great 10:09:26 <09gammafunk> but who will have the last one? 10:15:50 gammafunk: re: your point about magic taking more time, I'm admittedly somewhat rusty, but my experience has been that it depends -- magic can save a lot of turns, and depending on how you approach spending/restoring mp, it can offset the time cost. 10:18:02 <09gammafunk> well, I think the stats will show that for a large majority of players, mages do take more turns to win in practice: 10:18:24 <09gammafunk> !lg * won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:18:26 <04Cerebot> 11079 games for * (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=99643.84 10:18:38 <09gammafunk> !lg * won urune=3 warrior !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:18:40 <04Cerebot> 15146 games for * (won urune=3 warrior !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=80134.72 10:18:49 <09gammafunk> just to compare apples to apples 10:20:06 <09gammafunk> there are turncount challenge things in there that skew towards melee, but about 20% longer turn-wise sounds a reasonable estimate 10:20:30 <09gammafunk> obviously there are knobs you can change like mp regen rate to change things, at least to an extent 10:21:09 <09gammafunk> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:21:13 <04Cerebot> 5171 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=94712.15 10:21:15 <09gammafunk> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 warrior !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:21:20 <04Cerebot> 4638 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 warrior !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=80282.21 10:21:24 True. And to be fair, it takes some practice to get fast with magic 10:21:38 <09gammafunk> yeah, spells are more complex 10:22:05 <12ebering> I wonder 10:22:09 <12ebering> !kw positionalmagic 10:22:10 <04Cerebot> No keyword 'positionalmagic' 10:22:12 <12ebering> rip 10:22:17 <09gammafunk> oh yeah 10:22:17 <09gammafunk> well 10:22:21 <09gammafunk> that's a version number right? 10:22:23 <09gammafunk> well, mostly 10:22:25 <09gammafunk> 0.25 10:22:30 <09gammafunk> !kw recent 10:22:31 <04Cerebot> Keyword: recent => cv>=0.25 10:22:36 <09gammafunk> compare recent to !recent I guess 10:22:40 But in any case, you're right that one of the challenges to this type of design is that there's a huge range of possible playstyles and they will not be identical in turncount 10:22:51 <09gammafunk> I wouldn't think turns would change too much between 0.25 and earlier 10:22:55 <09gammafunk> realtime maybe 10:23:03 <09gammafunk> would be neat if it did go down (realtime, that is) 10:23:28 <12ebering> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) !recent 10:23:31 <04Cerebot> 4695 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog !recent): avg(turn)=95020.75 10:23:50 <09gammafunk> Lasty: Just make your clock based on realtime to complement the zot clock and we can cover both basis, a non-scummy crawl you have to win in 5 hours :wfrGold: 10:24:20 <09gammafunk> fr: emotes work in irc through the bridge 10:24:33 <12ebering> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) !recent 10:24:35 <12ebering> oops 10:24:37 <04Cerebot> 4695 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog !recent): avg(turn)=95020.75 10:24:46 <12ebering> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) recent 10:24:49 <04Cerebot> 476 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog recent): avg(turn)=91668.21 10:25:01 <12ebering> taste the savings 10:25:54 <09gammafunk> spells have been buffed 10:25:54 <09gammafunk> it is time to once again nerf casters 10:25:54 <09gammafunk> now I really wonder about realtime with quiver + positional 10:25:54 <08Lasty> !lg Lasty won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:25:54 <04Cerebot> 83 games for Lasty (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=93850.98 10:26:03 <09gammafunk> hey right on average 10:26:10 <08Lasty> !lg lasty won urune=3 warrior !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:26:11 <04Cerebot> 41 games for lasty (won urune=3 warrior !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=78489.41 10:26:12 <06advil> my experience has been that quiver is somewhat faster but for a real casting character I need quiver + macros to get what I have been aiming for 10:26:17 <08Lasty> welp, I'm wrong even about me 10:26:31 <06advil> (*faster realtime) 10:26:40 <09gammafunk> macros? oh, to set quiver? 10:26:46 <06advil> yeah 10:26:53 <09gammafunk> !lg gammafunk won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(turns) 10:26:54 <04Cerebot> 35 games for gammafunk (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog): avg(turn)=104756.94 10:27:01 <09gammafunk> optimal 10:27:17 <08Lasty> 😄 10:27:18 <06advil> I have some plans to add quick-binding stuff to the quiver/spell menus in 0.27 10:27:27 <09gammafunk> cool 10:27:35 <09gammafunk> !streak lasty 10:27:36 <04Cerebot> lasty has 7 consecutive wins (HEHu, MiBr, GrWr, DrBe, TrGl, DDFE, DgIE; HaFE, VpHu, TrNe, MiWn, GrEE, MfGl, DDAr). 10:27:43 <09gammafunk> he's on the map 10:27:51 <08Lasty> I tend to choke on streaks 😗 10:27:54 <08Lasty> er 😦 10:28:11 <09gammafunk> I made it to 19, and hellmonk said if I got 20 he'd do 15 rune batform run 10:28:19 <09gammafunk> but I choked on 20 :yogidaFeels: 10:28:58 <09gammafunk> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(dur) !recent 10:29:01 <04Cerebot> 4695 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog !recent): avg(dur)=7:09:44 10:29:09 <09gammafunk> !lg greaterplayers won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog x=avg(dur) current 10:29:12 <04Cerebot> 143 games for greaterplayers (won urune=3 mage !dd !tr !mi !trog current): avg(dur)=4:14:22 10:29:16 <09gammafunk> dang 10:29:25 <09gammafunk> small sample size though 10:31:42 <06advil> basically a better ui for doing stuff like this https://cbro.berotato.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.26/advil.macro 10:32:17 right 10:35:23 <06advil> I'm sure some other sorts of casting characters might become faster with quivers alone, but with the one I have going now I just found that I wanted to switch what was quivered a lot, and newquivers 1.0 didn't make that easy enough 10:37:30 <08Lasty> @PleasingFungus the new vault changes look great. It seems like the two new spellcasters will need to be clearly messaged to the player how they work, since their abilities create all-or-nothing zones of attack. Will that be done in the monster/spell descriptions? 10:37:30 <12ebering> yeah I spend time fiddling with my letters to get the quiver to cycle well 10:38:45 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-515-gbac44d2: Reduce explicit species checks: gnoll 10(24 minutes ago, 12 files, 65+ 47-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bac44d21f149 10:38:45 03advil02 07* 0.27-a0-516-g4ea69e3: Mark steam resistance as suppressed by forms 10(65 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4ea69e3b2467 10:41:00 <10PleasingFungus> great question! if you take a look at the files changed in the branch, i’ve taken a shot at communicating those areas in the descriptions, though they of course might need a second draft 10:43:10 <08Lasty> The spell and monster for the ice one say "near" and "nearby". I think "next to" or "adjacent to" might be clearer. Alternately, could make the effect scale down with distance to nearest wall. 10:43:16 <10PleasingFungus> in particular, i might want to be more explicit in the thunderguard’s monster description, and i might consider letting it waste time trying and failing to cast it up close 10:43:23 <10PleasingFungus> sure, i can change that 10:45:12 <10PleasingFungus> re the description; i do like it being a hard binary 10:45:12 <10PleasingFungus> easier to understand and play around 10:45:39 <08Lasty> "so enemies that are adjacent or nearly adjacent cannot be struck by this" / "calling down thunder on distant foes" -- yeah, I think this could be clearer. "distant" isn't well-defined in Crawl. 10:45:50 <08Lasty> I do like the hard binaries on both from a gameplay perspective 10:46:45 <08Lasty> I agree that having sharp positioning to play around is likely to create interesting challenging. 10:46:48 <08Lasty> *challenges 10:47:56 <10PleasingFungus> 🤞 10:48:57 <08Lasty> Since crawl mostly has two positioning modes right now -- things you want to be next to, and things you don't want to be next to -- it's great to have things w/ more nuance. 10:50:10 <10PleasingFungus> as we shorten the game and remove overhead (like the old food system), we can afford to introduce a bit more complexity in terms of monster design without overwhelming the player 11:03:31 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-516-g4ea69e3b24 (34) 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-517-g99d4dfc: WIP Vaults:5 re-layout 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 86+ 66-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/99d4dfc882da 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-518-g8a48f8c: First pass on new V:1-4 spawn tables 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 37+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a48f8c67905 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-519-g17e16ce: Add peacekeepers to Vaults 10(3 days ago, 4 files, 17+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/17e16cef8946 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-520-ga23c8b8: Remove basic centaurs from Vaults 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a23c8b862764 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-521-g0a3726c: Remove chaff orcs from Vaults 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0a3726c6ebc5 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-522-gd882627: Add lindwurm bands to Vaults 10(3 days ago, 3 files, 10+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d88262785a22 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-523-gfdac6d6: Add dire elephant bands to Vaults 10(3 days ago, 3 files, 13+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fdac6d6c3e9f 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-524-g6341b79: New Vaults monster: Icegrip Stalwart 10(3 days ago, 13 files, 138+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6341b799e380 11:21:46 03PleasingFungus02 07[north_star_vault] * 0.27-a0-525-g0274600: New monster: Ironbound Thunderhulk 10(3 days ago, 13 files, 107+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/02746001a23c 11:22:06 Branch pull/1793 updated to be equal with north_star_vault: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1793 11:22:56 <10PleasingFungus> (renamed the new monsters and adjusted their descriptions) 12:14:43 ironbound thunderhulk sounds like it's from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFHlJ2voJHY 12:14:43 not that that's a bad thing 12:15:56 <08nicolae> Space Mutiny portal with all the monsters named things like that 12:24:28 it would be nice if the thunderhulk could show the range gimmick in xv, or at least if you look at the spell description, similar to how hailstorm does 12:26:21 something like (3-5) rather than (5) 12:29:34 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.27-a0-516-g4ea69e3 (34) 12:38:00 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, i should special case ir 12:39:10 <10PleasingFungus> good call 12:49:34 I wonder what the point of you.fishtail is 12:49:34 <12ebering> merfolk someting 12:49:34 discussions about it consist mostly of |amethyst disliking it 12:50:19 afaict you.fishtail is true iff species is merfolk, the player is in water, and the form doesn't change physiology 12:50:53 which is very standard mutation-esque logic but just implemented in a quirky way 12:51:53 oh I found PF complaining about it too 12:52:04 <10PleasingFungus> lol 12:52:07 <10PleasingFungus> sounds like me 12:52:41 <10PleasingFungus> i think it’s just an extreme antiquity 12:53:29 it's sort of useful for tracking melding, I guess 12:54:29 <10PleasingFungus> wow, i swore a lot back then 12:55:22 <10PleasingFungus> rude past pf 12:58:47 03Ebonnov02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-517-gd5a6684: Make Vampiric Draining a zap and a beam 10(4 weeks ago, 10 files, 102+ 148-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d5a6684c9000 12:58:47 03Ebonnov02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-518-gc0d12b3: Remove selfench flag from Vampiric Draining 10(3 weeks ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c0d12b3c5cf8 12:58:47 03Ebonnov02 {ebering} 07* 0.27-a0-519-g10c448b: Targeter describes if monster is susceptible to Vampiric Draining 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 17+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/10c448b48d0b 12:58:47 03ebering02 07* 0.27-a0-520-gb83adbd: Add a monster info bit for susceptibility to vampirism 10(46 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b83adbd1c99a 13:01:02 @nicolae nicolae_vehumet_altar_sigil does some defs for the C glyph but never uses it. Are those defs just unecessary? 13:02:00 <08nicolae> yeah, that seems like an evolutionary vestige from an earlier version of the vault 13:05:16 btw, I think you're aware of this, but you don't need to KFEAT a glyph to . if it's not predefined, that's the default feature 13:08:18 @nicolae ah, we can't do lightblue for walls as that's the color of iron grates. ditto lightcyan is transparent wall. alternate color choice? 13:08:36 for floor you have more leeway, but predefined wall types use certain colors all on # glyph 13:08:55 <08nicolae> is regular cyan open 13:09:03 regular cyan is...metal? 13:09:21 <08nicolae> dang 13:09:22 yeah, that's taken by metal 13:09:26 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus flavour wise (and also glyph saving wise) what do you think about moving the desolation ps to g 13:09:40 green is crystal, so also taken (although you could just use crystal walls) 13:09:46 yeah, and if you want to use metal walls instead 13:09:56 then that'd be fine obviously, you could just have it be metal 13:11:03 console coloring is sort of a pain this way, at least for walls 13:11:03 <12ebering> that way there's plenty of 'p's for stalwart, thunderer, and beastmaster 13:11:03 and NO ONE make a derogatory comment about console 13:11:03 <08nicolae> hmmm, vehumet already has an existing motif of using crystal walls too, so i guess the walls can be crystal instead of stone 13:11:03 <08nicolae> i would never 13:11:03 yeah, that'd be green; that's ok? 13:11:03 <08nicolae> sure 13:11:03 will do 13:12:09 <08nicolae> is there a list of console colors for walls somewhere 13:12:51 @nicolae one more thing, you set two different floor tiles for the _ glyph (altar). Which did you actually want? 13:13:34 <08nicolae> lol, way to go nicolae 13:13:39 <10PleasingFungus> hm, what species would you make them? 13:13:56 <12ebering> I would make them salt dwarves 13:14:00 <10PleasingFungus> hrm 13:14:13 <10PleasingFungus> well, i certainly wouldn’t make them salt anything 13:14:20 <08nicolae> do later FTILE declarations override earlier ones? if so then go with the second one, since that's the one that would have shown up during testing and the one i would have approved 13:14:23 <08nicolae> floor_pebble_lightgreen i think 13:14:25 <12ebering> or some other kind of dwarf 13:14:29 ok, will do 13:14:37 I'll show you a screenshot when done 13:14:38 <10PleasingFungus> they’re rag-tag survivors of an ancient and proud evil empire 13:14:48 because you TILES people ONLY understand those 13:15:01 <08nicolae> oh i can't understand screenshots either 13:15:07 <10PleasingFungus> humans and elves are the natural fits there, though ofc both glyphs are quite busy 13:15:20 ??glyph 13:15:20 glyph ~ glyphs[1/3]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html — Generated with the script http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 13:15:33 <12ebering> g is pretty busy too 13:15:36 <10PleasingFungus> dwarves might work, but it feels a bit less resonant to me 13:15:46 <08nicolae> aha, i was just about to ask for that glyph page again, danke 13:15:58 <10PleasingFungus> one option would be to make ironwhip beastmasters ogres 13:16:00 dwarves on g, til 13:16:52 <10PleasingFungus> following thunderhulks 13:16:52 <12ebering> yeah, lots of room on O 13:16:52 <10PleasingFungus> big ogre with a whip is fun 13:16:52 <08nicolae> question: how many places where console is played can handle utf-8 13:16:52 <08nicolae> or like extended ascii 13:16:52 oh that's also out of date 13:16:52 <12ebering> all of the servers 13:16:55 guess we need to regenerate it 13:17:02 <12ebering> I use a lot of unicode in my rc 13:17:04 only matters for bugs probably 13:17:07 <12ebering> ??ebering[glyph 13:17:07 <04Cerebot> ebering[1/2]: Cool unicode glyph set http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~ebering/crawl/glyphs.txt 13:17:27 yeah, you can use non-wide unicode 13:17:36 <08nicolae> what if the glyph set was expanded to use, like, ö and stuff 13:17:38 if you try to use the wide chars it doesn't work so well 13:17:59 <12ebering> officially crawl supports platforms that only handle 7-bit ascii 13:18:03 well, then we'd be droping support for ascii, yeah 13:18:09 <08nicolae> ah, gotcha 13:18:19 <08nicolae> i figured that might theoretically be the case 13:18:26 <12ebering> gotta support the mainframe players on vt100 or whatever 13:18:26 we're not really out of glyphs 13:18:32 we could use more colors though 13:18:35 but similar problem there 13:18:38 <12ebering> yes but we're out of flavour glyphs!! 13:18:47 <12ebering> vaults wants humans and p is crowded 13:18:54 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.27-a0-520-gb83adbd1c9 (34) 13:18:55 <08nicolae> there's too much p 13:18:56 there's like 13:18:58 this one glyph 13:19:01 that's pretty free right now 13:19:02 which is it 13:19:05 <12ebering> 'a 13:19:12 <12ebering> a is totally empty 13:19:22 <10PleasingFungus> i know what kate would say (and what i’m surprised gamma isn’t saying) 13:19:24 we have like arachnids on a? 13:19:24 <10PleasingFungus> which is 13:19:35 <10PleasingFungus> there’s one way to clear up glyph space... 13:19:35 <08nicolae> spiders are on s i think 13:19:37 <12ebering> nope! spiders are on s 13:19:49 removing monsters, PF? 13:20:11 <10PleasingFungus> 😉 13:20:40 R if you want to go for a demonic sort of thing that's not a proper demon 13:20:42 pretty open 13:20:53 <10PleasingFungus> also: what if we merged P into f ((f)lora) and used P for extra scary ps, or something? 13:20:57 a spirit, if you will 13:21:13 the deal with f was that is was mobile 13:21:17 vs P stationary 13:21:20 <10PleasingFungus> ah 13:21:22 <10PleasingFungus> hm 13:21:22 fairly important distinction 13:21:35 huh 13:21:37 warlocks are on L 13:21:41 they're undead? 13:21:45 I know they have BoD 13:21:46 <12ebering> ok what if the desolation p's became ogres 13:21:47 <10PleasingFungus> they’re lichen! 13:21:50 I see 13:22:41 <10PleasingFungus> i would accept the desolation ps being vaguely demonic 13:22:41 <08nicolae> make them E and turn them into various salt elementals 13:22:41 <08nicolae> the spirits of the ancient civilization, who incarnated themselves into the ambient salt 13:22:41 <12ebering> you see here a himalayan pink elemental 13:22:44 <10PleasingFungus> heh 13:22:50 <12ebering> demons don't like salt 13:22:57 <08nicolae> neither do slugs 13:22:58 <12ebering> haven't you all ever placed a salt circle while summoning! 13:23:01 <08nicolae> therefore demons = slugs 13:23:14 <08nicolae> i never use salt circles when summoning. i rely on my fists 13:23:16 <10PleasingFungus> that’s why it sucks so much for them to be in the desolation of salt! 13:23:49 <08nicolae> 9 is gargoyles, right, maybe you could make all the desolation of salt 8 and 9, various constructs 13:23:56 they did have some cool demons in mesopotamia 13:24:23 <10PleasingFungus> would have some significant mechanical implications 13:24:32 <08nicolae> oh right, they got the guys who blow up constructs, etc 13:24:47 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, and peacekeepers 13:24:53 those are H? 13:25:02 <10PleasingFungus> H?? 13:25:03 <04Cerebot> h moves one square to the left. H moves in this direction until an encounter (monster or floor item). h (monster glyph) represents a hound-type or hog-type monster (see h[2]). H (monster glyph) represents a legendary-hybrid-type monster (see H[3]). 13:25:23 <10PleasingFungus> nah they’re 8s 13:25:24 ah, 8 13:25:33 oh 13:25:44 <10PleasingFungus> you could argue for H too i guess 13:25:48 huh, and silly old me thought 8 meant imobile statue monster 13:25:58 guess that's not been true really ever 13:26:13 <08nicolae> iirc 8 is constructs, so it's statue monsters but also, like, spellforged servitors 13:26:20 <08nicolae> according to that glyph chart at least 13:26:28 <08nicolae> i do not know many console glyphs, as a degenerate tiles player 13:26:33 would be sort of nice to have a glyph for stationary constructs vs mobile ones 13:26:39 but that's an aside 13:27:02 <08nicolae> there's always utf-8... 13:27:13 <10PleasingFungus> good voice 13:27:20 <08nicolae> thank you i've been practicing 13:28:28 <08nicolae> wouldst thou like the taste of better glyphs? 13:28:28 <10PleasingFungus> just make some desolation ps elemental colours 13:28:28 <10PleasingFungus> es 13:28:28 <08nicolae> wouldst thou like to make console look... deliciously... 13:28:28 if we don't fully support running DCSS on a pdp-11 built in 1972 13:28:28 well, I'll remove crawl from my tape drive 13:28:28 <08nicolae> do all the systems that crawl supports handle colors, though 13:28:44 yes, 16 console colours 13:28:49 <08nicolae> ah 13:29:24 <08nicolae> i figured some old systems would just do monochrome but i may have been getting it confused with nethack's long-standing policy of running on punch cards and oscilloscopes 13:30:43 <12ebering> that reminds me 13:30:47 <12ebering> !commit fix the build on amiga 13:30:49 <04Cerebot> ebering ⛐ 0.27-a0-2045-g0292a42: fix the build on amiga (in the future, 29 files, 615+ 576-) http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0292a42 13:32:39 <08nicolae> @gammafunk also did you have any thoughts on the revised sif muna vault 13:34:16 <09gammafunk> I saw the summary, seems fine, let me take a look at the details 13:34:16 <12ebering> hm, maybe these beastmasters can be palentongas 13:34:16 <08nicolae> cool 13:34:19 <08nicolae> imo i think the randbooks don't need ident:all anymore, it's sufficient that they're obviously spellbooks i think 13:34:25 <12ebering> since I plan to give them a new ability "Goad" which gives all beasts that can see them bonus energy (as if they'd rolled random energy) 13:34:35 <08nicolae> but i didn't come to that conclusion until after i'd uploaded 13:34:38 <08nicolae> 🤷‍♂️ 13:34:44 * geekosaur misreads "…can be paleontologists" 13:35:22 <12ebering> is it time.. to bring back ankuses as a weapon base type??!??! 13:35:26 is that not just haste, ebering? 13:35:33 <12ebering> well it's 1-turn haste 13:35:46 <12ebering> instead of a lasting enchant 13:35:51 so los-wide? 13:35:58 <08nicolae> "rolled" random energy, i see what you did there 13:36:27 I guess that's sufficiently different, although not sure how differently it will play 13:36:43 probably closest thing is actually torpor aura 13:37:17 functionally similar to a weaker version of that, in that it's not every turn and only applies to certain monsters 13:38:00 @nicolae I think that works pretty well, what you did 13:38:11 <08nicolae> cool 13:38:34 I guess you could add some decorations in the library? but it's a bit hard to do that in an especially thematic way 13:38:37 <08nicolae> like with the gozag vault, i tried not to fiddle too much with the underlying layout, so it's still glass with 3 books 13:38:46 <08nicolae> yeah, sif's decorations are "make everything blue" 13:39:02 my "library" transporter vault has more space to work with; has sort of little "stalls" for monsters to hang out in and "read" 13:39:12 and just some nice trees/fountains on one side 13:40:05 fr: ability to make everything blue 13:40:07 powerful if you wear all blue equipment, since you become invisible 13:40:39 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus did you mean for thunderhulks to hit almost as hard in melee as a warden (35 vs 36 base damage)? 13:40:44 <08nicolae> some of the gods have much easier flavor than others, which is one reason i made the vehumet sigil vault, i was trying to find a visual/design space for vehumet that wasn't just "crystal, explosions, fire" 13:41:00 sif does have a new tile? have you seen that? 13:41:04 pretty nice one by canofworms 13:41:14 <08nicolae> the altar? yeah, it's got the little clouds coming off 13:41:23 yep, and you made a magical condensation vault 13:41:26 so I guess that's covered 13:41:27 <08nicolae> i think it may have inspired that vault 13:42:46 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/816742415662710864/unknown.png 13:42:58 <09gammafunk> little hard to see the pattern in the floor, I guess 13:43:09 <09gammafunk> but not much you can do about that 13:43:25 <08nicolae> it showed up okay on my consoles but i guess that depends on everybody's individual settings 13:43:28 <08nicolae> yeah 13:43:43 <08nicolae> oh, how did you do the thing where it tells you what vault you saw, is that a wizmode option 13:44:29 <09gammafunk> probably a full debug build thing 13:44:36 <09gammafunk> spits out a lot of extra info 13:44:38 <08nicolae> ah, right 13:47:21 <02|amethyst> & 13:47:51 <08nicolae> that lists the vaults in the current level but it doesn't do the thing in gammafunk's screenshot where it goes "vault whatever (x,y)-(x,y) seen." 13:47:53 <09gammafunk> that works too 13:47:57 <08nicolae> yeah 13:48:09 <08nicolae> &^E super useful for me, big fan of that lil guy 13:48:13 <02|amethyst> ah, yeah, I don't know if there's a way to get that without fulldebug or diagnostics 13:48:20 <09gammafunk> @nicolae did the floor coloring work in tiles for you? 13:48:26 <09gammafunk> for me it's all getting the same floor color 13:48:53 <08nicolae> yeah, but iirc it ran into one old bug where after you save and reload it doesn't remember the floor colorings 13:49:03 <08nicolae> i let it slide because that problem is not on my end 😛 13:49:24 <09gammafunk> yeah, I've seen that sort of bug in some of my vaults 13:49:35 <09gammafunk> but I'm not getting the initial coloring working at all in tiles 13:49:47 <09gammafunk> # It's part of the design from the Vehumet altar tile. NAME: nicolae_vehumet_altar_sigil TAGS: temple_overflow_vehumet temple_overflow_1 transparent decor DEPTH: D:2- KFEAT: _ = altar_vehumet COLOUR: . = white COLOUR: D+ = green COLOUR: E = lightgreen FTILE: .DE+ = floor_pebble FTILE: _ = floor_pebble_lightgreen : interest_check(_G) MAP bbb+bbb bb..E..bb b..DDD..b b.D.E.D.b +EDE_EDE+ 13:49:47 b.D.E.D.b b..DDD..b bb..E..bb bbb+bbb ENDMAP 13:50:18 <08nicolae> so here's a weird question: does it work if you put the FTILE before the COLOUR? 13:50:33 <09gammafunk> aha 13:50:38 <09gammafunk> yeah statement order 13:50:44 <09gammafunk> colour first as I posted there works 13:50:48 <09gammafunk> I needed to save reload 13:51:42 <08nicolae> aha 13:51:42 <09gammafunk> save and restart I mean 13:51:42 <08nicolae> i would give twenty dollars to whichever of you wonderful devs implemented a feature that would reload the maps files without having to restart the game 13:52:42 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/816744912803987466/unknown.png 13:53:09 <08nicolae> i think the circle is still supposed to be light blue, since it's floor it's okay to be blue 13:53:19 <09gammafunk> yeah, can do that 13:53:30 <09gammafunk> hrm 13:54:04 <08nicolae> admittedly the colors are a little dark 13:55:59 <08nicolae> i think a lot of the brighter floor tiles don't have the same color variations and also iirc they were a little garish 13:56:38 <09gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/816745905428234260/unknown.png 13:57:30 <09gammafunk> to my eye the green matches the altar better, this seems more sif colors 13:57:30 <09gammafunk> but green also feels foresty, so 13:57:30 <08nicolae> the cross is light green, the circle is light blue! it's supposed to mimic the design on the altar tile 13:57:40 <09gammafunk> ok, so one more time 13:57:55 <09gammafunk> oh but, is that actually the color on the altar tile? 13:57:58 <09gammafunk> looks all green to me 13:58:16 <08nicolae> i had to zoom in but yeah the circle is a light blueish 13:58:28