01:21:09 <Lantell> Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-3570-gb561bb485a
03:26:16 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
03:30:51 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3570-gb561bb485a
03:31:53 <Kelbell> Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-3019-g27142891ee
03:34:35 -!- jilles_ is now known as jilles
05:01:42 <alexjurkiewicz> ??br
05:01:42 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled br in my learndb. Did you mean: ar, b, ba, bar, be, bh, bro, bu, cr, dr, er, fr, gr, jr, mr, pr, r, rr, tr, wr.
05:01:44 <alexjurkiewicz> ??brigand
05:01:44 <Sequell> Brigand[1/1]: Same as Assassin, renamed in 0.26.
05:01:58 <alexjurkiewicz> !learn add br see {brigand}
05:01:58 <Sequell> br[1/1]: see {brigand}
05:02:00 <alexjurkiewicz> ??assassin
05:02:00 <Sequell> assassin[1/1]: A background that starts with an enchanted dagger, a cloak, and a blowgun with two curare needles and eight poison needles.
05:02:08 <alexjurkiewicz> !learn mv assassin brigand
05:02:08 <Sequell> brigand exists, cannot overwrite it.
05:02:13 <alexjurkiewicz> !learn rm brigand
05:02:13 <Sequell> Deleted Brigand[1/1]: Same as Assassin, renamed in 0.26.
05:02:15 <alexjurkiewicz> !learn mv assassin brigand
05:02:15 <Sequell> assassin -> brigand[1/1]: A background that starts with an enchanted dagger, a cloak, and a blowgun with two curare needles and eight poison needles.
05:02:32 <alexjurkiewicz> !learn add assassin What the brigand background was called before 0.26
05:02:32 <Sequell> assassin[1/1]: What the brigand background was called before 0.26
05:02:34 <alexjurkiewicz> ??br
05:02:35 <Sequell> brigand[1/1]: A background that starts with an enchanted dagger, a cloak, and a blowgun with two curare needles and eight poison needles.
06:05:52 * Aliscans looks at the commit message for the "brigand" change, and is amazed that no-one thought of "Rogue".
06:07:52 <Aliscans> Oh, by the way. It's not a big thing, but the manual still refers to book burning in its description of the =D inscription.
06:21:47 <ZureaL> cbr2 has been restarted to address the incorrect morgue links and also introduces the "save info thing" from Advil :)
06:22:34 <ZureaL> oh, also allows the use of seeded sessions
07:24:14 <Marvel> Hey, devs! What do you think about allowing ghouls to regenerate health when monsters are visible? Ghouls cannot bring meat chunks to a fight anymore and don't have speed advantages over most of enemies. The mutation makes running from enemies annoying.
08:07:38 <Discord|> <12e​bering> Ghouls heal on kills now. If you get into a fight where you can't easily kill something, well, it's just like being a ghoul who ran out of chunks.
09:10:16 <Marvel> .. on kills living enemies in one-to-many fights. What about other options?
10:08:04 <gammafunk> ZureaL: I transfered all beem subscriptions for cbro over to cbro2, so hopefully that will help for users who had the subscription on the old server
10:08:57 <gammafunk> And there's the usual thing where if they had a subscription on neither server, they'll need to find someone with beem and type !subscribe in chat (and they can spectate themselves a few times to draw beem as well)
10:09:09 <ZureaL> oh right on, thank you
10:09:39 <gammafunk> I do plan on adding an http server to beem that will allow you to request the bot over to your chat for a bit so you can subscribe
10:10:11 <gammafunk> advil: I'm not sure if you have opinions on this, but you're probably the other person who's around who understands the dgl scripts to some degree, so I thought I'd ask
10:11:17 <gammafunk> advil: I'd like to automate setting up an experimental, so I wanted to modify install-stable.sh (the dgl subcommand) and have it use some simple dgl menu templates and use the new config directory functionality for inserting a new webtiles config
10:11:51 <advil> dgl-config will need some tweaking to support config directories in the first place
10:12:01 <advil> i.e. it'll need to allow for templating them
10:12:01 <gammafunk> advil: Is doing that magic through the dgl script in the most 'obvious' way (using shell commands with simple substitutions for command-line args) the best way?
10:12:05 <gammafunk> yeah
10:12:28 <gammafunk> I was sort of wondering if we should *not* be going down this route and using container stuff (which I'm much less knowledgeable about)
10:13:40 <gammafunk> I guess if we have no immediate plans to make webtiles+dgl require a container setup, that couldn't be reasonable, but before I went down this rabbit hole I wanted a sanity check
10:13:45 <ZureaL> container here meaning Docker or just a chroot?
10:13:48 <advil> I suspect noone is going to have the bandwidth to really work out a container setup that fully replaces dgl-config any time soon
10:13:58 <gammafunk> right
10:14:03 <advil> so as long as dgl-config is partially used, it's better to be consistent about it imo
10:14:29 <advil> (I do have on my list for 0.26 getting config directories to work, but I'm not sure when I'll get to that)
10:14:30 <gammafunk> ZureaL: a docker setup; advil made a simple test one that's part of the dgl scripts repository
10:14:59 <advil> yeah, I think a real docker setup for a live server would look somewhat different than that
10:15:00 <gammafunk> someone did go through a lot of effort making something more systematic with...now I forget the tool they used
10:15:05 <ZureaL> oh, that could be fun. I've been playing around with K8s and Rancher on top of Docker
10:15:32 <gammafunk> advil's setup is nice for testing dgl without having to rig your system around what the dgl scripts/setup require
10:15:33 <advil> there's links to the docker/ansible stuff from the dgl-config docker readme, at the end of the file
10:15:40 <gammafunk> ansible, yes, that was it
10:15:55 <advil> iirc the only one on the devteam who has experience with docker in production is aidanh and his reaction was, paraphrasing, "I hate it"
10:16:04 <gammafunk> heh
10:16:09 <ZureaL> I need to set up ansible to help automate my damn ssl certs that are shared amongst all my systems
10:19:16 <gammafunk> my favorite thing about all I know how to do with ssl, which is follow the letsencrypt setup instructions:
10:19:19 <gammafunk> root test -x /usr/bin/certbot -a \! -d /run/systemd/system && perl -e 'sleep int(rand(43200))' && certbot -q renew
10:19:40 <gammafunk> the call to perl's int(rand()) that's part of the daily cron job for checking cert renewal
10:20:02 <gammafunk> it's because ssl cert renewal is a roguelike, and you need procedural generation
10:20:13 <ZureaL> haha
10:20:30 <ZureaL> I'm doing a wildcard cert, so I have to play DNS games in order for them to renew my cert
10:20:53 <ZureaL> they require a TXT entry in order to validate, yes, I own the domain
10:21:44 <ZureaL> I literally have a 52 step document to get my wildcard cert to each of my running services and another 12 step doc to replace cbr2's
10:21:54 <gammafunk> good thing I didn't need anything like that, since I don't own the domain I use
10:22:00 <gammafunk> wow
10:39:54 <advil> I just press buttons in my host's panel and it somehow all works
11:47:50 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> aliscans: I did think of rogue! rogue is an evocative name suggesting sneaking and stabbing, just like assassin, meaning that it has the exact same problem
11:47:58 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> possibly that should be a !tell, idk
11:53:37 <gammafunk> ha! you can't use !tell from discord! you filthy swine!
11:54:28 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> wow
11:54:28 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> this is discrimination
11:54:53 <PleasingFungus> !tell aliscans I did think of rogue! rogue is an evocative name suggesting sneaking and stabbing, just like assassin, meaning that it has the exact same problem :)
11:54:54 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let aliscans know.
12:14:32 <twelwe> fr: expand -cast into specific schools, make it more common
12:33:47 <Aliscans> PleasingFungus: Sorry, that was just the first thing I thought of when I saw the commit message.
12:33:47 <Sequell> Aliscans: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
12:33:54 <Aliscans> Really, though, I think the subtleties of the background name will escape most new players.
12:34:08 <Aliscans> If you're familiar with other roguelikes, you might see the dagger and the poison, and expect a Crawl version of the class you know. If you're coming from D&D, you've probably already noticed that classes don't match up.
12:40:48 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i’m not basing this on a comparison to other games
12:41:11 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i’ve seen many, many new players get confused by the ‘assassin’ name
12:41:37 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> jury is still out on brigand, certainly
12:45:40 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> but i’m really not sure how many players are coming from d&d or from other roguelikes, or how much it’d matter if they did
12:45:53 <gammafunk> Brigand starts with a Steal ability, right? I can steal potions and monster gold?
12:46:04 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> you really love the theft meme
12:46:16 <gammafunk> Can I roleplay as Locke from FF6 or just no?
12:46:44 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> even if players thought that, they would learn otherwise extremely quickly
12:47:09 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> whereas the ‘stabber’ playstyle suggested by assassin is a much subtler error
12:51:38 <n1> it's a good change. Lots of people want to follow an imagined archetype based on character name. Unfortunately there aren't words ending in br.
12:52:00 <gammafunk> Assassin (アサシン, Asashin?) is a recurring job in the Final Fantasy series that focuses on taking out the target as quickly and efficiently as possible, sacrificing Defense for movement, strength, and powerful debilitating abilities. In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance they can also strike from afar with bows.
12:52:12 <gammafunk> ^ for reference, this is exactly how assassin played
12:52:35 <gammafunk> *especially* striking from afar with bows
12:52:38 <n1> Imagine finding out your character is not focused on taking out the target as quickly and efficiently as possible
12:54:32 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> s m d h
12:56:35 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i thought they were like the assassins from hit game assassin’s creed (アサシンクリード Asashinkurīdo), and attacked by jumping on enemies from above
12:56:56 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> strategic piles of hay scattered throughout the dungeon
13:06:44 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-652-gafc20e3: Extremely vane tiles (canofworms) 10(2 minutes ago, 5 files, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/afc20e36207e
13:25:57 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-652-gafc20e3620 (34)
14:12:42 <Aliscans> PleasingFungus: I only referred to other games because, to me, the everyday meaning for "rogue" is pretty generic. It could easily refer to a pickpocket, a highwayman or a statesman.
14:12:44 <Aliscans> The manual doesn't mention brigands at the moment, but that seems like the best place to say what someone with some stealth, poison and a dagger is actually good at.
14:16:50 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> do players read the manual?
14:17:58 <ZureaL> there's a manual for Crawl?
14:18:13 <Aliscans> Maybe after they've killed a few assassins and are scratching their heads, trying to work out what they're doing wrong.
14:19:16 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i think at that point they switch to fighter, or perhaps to spelunky 2
14:19:25 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> just guessing tho 🙂
14:21:46 <Aliscans> I was going to say to use the text you get when you're selecting a background, but that didn't tell you much about them even when they were called assassins.
14:24:32 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> i agree there could be room for improvement in that text! suggestions welcomed
14:26:24 <Aliscans> I haven't played an assassin since b26, so I can't help you with that, sorry.
14:27:47 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> lol
14:27:53 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> fair enough
14:28:07 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> they’re basically the same as gladiators, if that helps 🙂
14:28:33 <Aliscans> Gladiators who don't start with a huge axe?
14:29:51 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> since when do gladiators start w a huge axe?
14:35:23 <Aliscans> I believe they look pretty big if someone's swinging one at you.
14:47:51 <Discord|> <10P​leasingFungus> very true
18:24:43 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-652-gafc20e3620 (34)
18:56:07 <ZureaL> anyone here intimately familiar with the sizzell IRC bot?  I have registered the bot's nick with Nickserv and it appears to auth and it can join ##crawl-dev, but will not join ##crawl.
20:43:45 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[targeted-commands] * 0.26-a0-661-g5505b7a: Simplify launching? 10(18 minutes ago, 21 files, 333+ 148-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5505b7a59f22
21:16:32 <Henzell> Bei0000 (L12 MiAK) Crash caused by signal #6: Aborted (Lair:1)
21:35:27 <ZureaL> anyone here intimately familiar with the sizzell IRC bot?  I have registered the bot's nick with Nickserv and it appears to auth and it can join ##crawl-dev, but will not join ##crawl.
21:35:36 <ZureaL> oops, sorry about that
21:56:14 <Discord|> <03w​heals> nothing like a commit name that ends with a question mark
22:36:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
23:04:46 <n1> I think ice magic is too strong and I wrote up my thoughts about it here https://termbin.com/skds