00:01:34 I think casting Ozocubu's Fridge is the only exception (where you get exposed to an element NOT after taking damage). 00:07:01 It also looks like the way it's done leads to a lot of redundant calls to expose to element which may make odds of melting enchantments etc. unintended amounts. 00:08:55 Bcadren: I'm surprised you havent yet realized that if you have a question like this about the codebase the answer is one of the following: 1. historical reasons lost to time but maybe findable with git blame and irc or mailing list archives 2. correct messaging order 3. subtle special cases that might just be a simulationist relic (again possibly sort-outable from archives) 00:10:35 Yea fair on messaging order. I'm seeing on melee hit from a flaming weapon you're exposed to element, you take damage, then you are exposed to element again; which seems weird to me. 00:19:35 It wasn't a question; btw. it was a suggestion. Makes sense to call from hurt/ouch due to how often its called "if foo is alive" after a hit. 00:20:42 Bcadren: crawlcode is best when refactors come as patches ;) 00:30:51 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-403-g5864c69: Fix some volitile state in direction_chooser 10(63 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5864c69260aa 00:31:33 New branch created: ctrl-x-directn (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/ctrl-x-directn 00:31:33 03ebering02 07[ctrl-x-directn] * 0.26-a0-404-g8cb0138: Allow ^x in the targeter and use it to select a target 10(6 hours ago, 5 files, 21+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8cb013873936 00:31:33 03ebering02 07[ctrl-x-directn] * 0.26-a0-405-g6b3fb13: Make ^x in the targeter context sensitive 10(3 hours ago, 3 files, 122+ 58-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b3fb13d7673 00:31:33 03ebering02 07[ctrl-x-directn] * 0.26-a0-406-g59047a2: New regex list option monster_item_view_features 10(3 minutes ago, 5 files, 50+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59047a217dca 00:32:01 aidanh: I believe this is all good to go but I'll be honest I cargo culted the redraw calls and I would appreciate your eyes before I merge it 00:32:12 aidanh: (this being the ctrl-x-directn branch) 00:47:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-403-g5864c69260 (34) 01:55:13 The build passed. (ctrl-x-directn - 59047a2 #14045 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/710978224 02:00:32 -!- aidanh_ is now known as aidanh 03:12:31 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-403-g5864c69 (34) 03:40:52 In colours there are definitions for unused colours, like LIGHTYELLOW and DARKYELLOW; is there a reason we are limited to 16 colours? old "used to store in very small size" or something? 03:41:34 terminal historically only supports 16 colours 03:41:41 and dcss aims for maximum backwards compatibility 03:42:20 O_O; that seems excessive in this case; since who is going to be trying to play on a computer that old, but alright 03:43:17 There's this note right below the colour defines 03:43:18 / Many, MANY places currently hard-code this to 8 bits, but we need to 03:45:24 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-2866-g0f8d49525b 03:45:24 I guess it maintains a certain "classical look" even if the backwards compatibility bit isn't that important. Still be nice to free up those colours for rare use (maybe using version flagging so console can opt in/out). 04:58:29 alexjurkiewicz All text (on local including tiles) appears to be rendered using a classic library that assumes that the foreground colour and background colour are stored as a union inside of one uint_32...having more colours would require either using a different library or completely refactoring it. That's the real reason. (just gave myself a 04:58:30 headache by trying to allow more colours quickly). 05:05:04 Not sure if it's the same on webtiles/web console or not (I'm guessing it likely is)...but I'd have to setup a testing server to really test. 06:12:35 famously, putty on windows only supports 8 colours 06:12:57 i think most other terminals support at least 256 if not full 24-bit colour 06:14:00 the way to display "extended" colours is different to how the base 8 colours are drawn, btw. At least in terms of terminal codes. I'm not really sure what ncurses API is like 06:17:07 Uh, putty does the usual 16 and has options for xterm 256-colour mode and 24-bit colours (on by default) 06:18:25 https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/bold-font-default.html was very annoying but was fixed 7 years ago 06:36:46 oh! 06:37:28 It's hung about like a bad smell because if you installed PuTTY for the first time as 0.63, it has faithfully kept your default settings. 07:01:09 -!- toblu3 is now known as toblu 07:54:11 ikjuyhgtrf (L16 HOFi) ERROR: range check error (20 / 20) (D (Sprint)) 08:14:32 03ebering02 07[ctrl-x-directn] * 0.26-a0-405-gd40c178: Make ^x in the targeter context sensitive 10(11 hours ago, 3 files, 123+ 60-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d40c1785c550 08:14:32 03ebering02 07[ctrl-x-directn] * 0.26-a0-406-gd382e80: New regex list option monster_item_view_features 10(8 hours ago, 5 files, 50+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d382e80fa435 08:15:09 aidanh: I think I understand when to call the redraws a bit better, that was force pushed wwith a tweak 09:17:21 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-404-g7c001a5: New option: travel_one_unsafe_move 10(10 minutes ago, 6 files, 32+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c001a520f68 09:17:21 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-405-g9bf6f14: Remove some vestigal eating options 10(27 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9bf6f1401de0 09:46:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-405-g9bf6f1401d (34) 10:03:23 ebering, cursor moving would be show_cursor_at 10:06:57 I'll try to take a closer look tomorrow, but that all looks pretty good 10:11:48 ok, I'll go ahead and merge it then 10:12:15 as long as there aren't any major oopses I feel pretty good about it 10:12:24 (and want to use it) 10:13:21 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-406-g59fe67c: Allow ^x in the targeter and use it to select a target 10(16 hours ago, 5 files, 21+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59fe67cabcb8 10:13:21 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-407-ge0a2d2f: Make ^x in the targeter context sensitive 10(13 hours ago, 3 files, 123+ 60-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e0a2d2f65e99 10:13:21 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-408-g89fe4bc: New regex list option monster_item_view_features 10(10 hours ago, 5 files, 50+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/89fe4bc6bca0 10:15:10 awesome 10:18:35 very excited about the future widgetification of the main viewport 10:19:38 hm, does anyone know where was PF's earlier design doc for clocks? 10:19:46 for some reason I thought it was on the wiki but it is not 10:24:49 also do we have a policy statement on tedious but optimal behavior that can be used instead of rehashing this question *every* *single* *time* 10:30:21 it's in the design philosophy doc 10:30:21 I can just linke PF's talk too 10:31:10 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-408-g89fe4bc6bc (34) 10:35:53 the peanut gallery comments are definitely cementing my feeling that this clock has a PR issue though 10:36:19 so far people are apparently seeing "clock" and "death" and reacting to some imagined version of it rather than what it does 10:36:42 stealth commit it 10:37:27 re-write all the commit messages as accessibility commits 10:38:21 "decrease difficulty for players with OCD" 10:40:37 also someone tell me if I'm being a jerk in these PR responses 10:40:52 I'll keep an eye on it 10:42:07 advil: no the response you gave was good 10:43:37 I do think the progression from "this clock is probably just about xom/traps" to "well this clock would kill you unless you won in 35k turns" to "well why not just allow tedious play" is pretty funny in that conversation 10:44:18 people just like to pull every random argument out of the air, throw it at the wall, see what sticks 10:44:53 do be aware that hayanne (the commenter) comes in here 10:44:56 yep 10:45:04 I've had positive interactions with them before 10:45:09 I do think it's also just that it is challenging to convey what this clock does 10:45:10 it's fine, I've had plenty of conversations with hayanne 10:45:52 and would happily tell them the same in discord; he's not going to get offended 10:46:56 and so as much as I get impatient with rehashing old discussions I do think the fact that someone who has even contributed to dcss before has this kind of immediate reaction is a sign of how people will react & what we should aim to mitigate whenever a clock gets merged 10:46:56 I don't think the gist of what the clock does is actually that hard to convey, but players do want to believe that it imposes some unstated limitation 10:47:14 I think if we had foodless crawl now and proposed the food system we just reverted, we'd likely see the same arguments 10:47:15 yeah 10:47:26 there's some gap between the description and expectations 10:47:28 s/reverted/removed/ 10:47:29 although 35k is pretty funny, at that turncount you're almost in shouting distance of the top 100 games 10:47:56 maybe crawl would be good if we forced you to win in 35k turns, who knows, let's try it 10:48:27 if we ever do your difficulty modes thing a steep clock of some kind might be interesting to consider actually 10:49:12 yep; there would be a lot of fun knobs to enable, but I won't pretend implementing a good difficult system is trivial, since you have to get a good collection of settings 10:49:17 like I'm super slow but I have occasionally tried to self-enforce fast-ish play and it was kind of fun (just aiming for 50k turns personally, which I have never yet broken still) 10:49:54 yeah, turncount is sort of maximum variance, which is its own fun, but it's also the curse of frequent restarts; despite the restart frustration, the sheer challenge is fairly enjoyable 10:49:56 so a clock that gave you nudges towards 50k 3 runes or even a but faster could be cool 10:50:05 yeah 10:50:18 my usual playstyle is definitely in the "winscumming at the cost of speed" category 10:50:43 slay the spire's trick of making each difficulty setting a "cheevo" is pretty cute and successful, but it's really granular and become tedious as you play the other characters (since you have to unlock them in order even though you have much more advanced knowledge) 10:50:52 yeah my games also very slow 10:51:08 playing for winrate, playing plenty of 'casters' or just a hard character in general 10:51:32 !lg . won recent urune=3 x=avg(turns),avg(dur) 10:51:33 4 games for gammafunk (won recent urune=3): avg(turn)=102046.25; avg(dur)=8:03:20 10:51:51 !lg . won recentishish urune=3 x=avg(turns),avg(dur) 10:51:52 22 games for gammafunk (won recentishish urune=3): avg(turn)=102245.14; avg(dur)=8:31:37 10:52:28 !lg . won recentishish urune=3 x=avg(turns),avg(dur) 10:52:28 3 games for advil (won recentishish urune=3): avg(turn)=125543.67; avg(dur)=13:32:13 10:52:28 I won :D 10:52:28 !lg @devteamnp won recentishish urune=3 x=avg(turns),avg(dur) 10:52:28 138 games for @devteamnp (won recentishish urune=3): avg(turn)=85458.54; avg(dur)=5:58:05 10:52:40 too bad elliptic is in there... 10:56:03 ok, I just marked that review comment thread as resolved so people will stop replying to it 10:56:41 heh 10:56:51 I don't think that does what you hope 10:57:18 maybe a reddit thread about the clock would be good for that type of discussion 12:34:39 clocks are also like an infinite source of bikeshedding 13:28:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-408-g89fe4bc (34) 13:42:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-409-g030cb20: Make ^x consistent when accessed via x instead of directly 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/030cb20a1859 13:42:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-410-g330158a: Reveal pile contents in los 10(33 minutes ago, 4 files, 76+ 149-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/330158afa59c 13:52:40 ebering: does that make it so that autoexplore will no longer travel to piles of items that you haven't yet looked at? i feel like that makes the interface worse if anything 13:53:53 being able to look through item piles quickly while continuing autoexplore is a lot more convenient than manually examining every stack 13:54:36 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-410-g330158afa5 (34) 14:01:16 kate 14:01:22 oops 14:01:34 kate-: it might, I didn't test that. It should be an easy fix 14:04:56 it looks like it does, yeah. i guess ctrl+x would also do the trick for that similar purpose of scanning through lots of things, but autoexploring to stacks is pretty convenient so would be good to be able to keep around too 14:19:52 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-411-g1bdd5c9: Visit all stashes with greedy_explore (kate-) 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1bdd5c971120 14:20:16 kate-: done 14:20:37 thanks! 14:35:56 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-411-g1bdd5c9711 (34) 14:45:55 -!- Yermak_ is now known as Yermak 16:01:48 gammafunk is napkin just @napkin on discord? 16:13:17 well, if so, I just asked about installing mingw 16:47:53 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-411-g1bdd5c9711 16:48:39 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-412-ga3d1f51: Add missing `static`s 10(24 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a3d1f51b8006 17:02:05 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-412-ga3d1f51b80 (34) 17:08:11 cdo trunk builds are fixed 17:08:30 just had to remember that "indices" is the plural of "index" 17:08:50 and it's now running on standartd mingw 17:17:58 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron 18:24:55 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-412-ga3d1f51b80 (34) 19:40:28 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-412-ga3d1f51b80 21:36:54 advil: cool, thanks re: cdo build fixes