00:00:56 <Bcadren> Is that actually what that's doing though? making demons never turn hostile under TSO or is it "they don't turn hostile when you join if you still had some" IE you don't have to wait for your IMP to expire to use a faded altar in case you get a good god.
00:40:11 -!- MakMorn_ is now known as MakMorn
01:05:53 <gammafunk> !tell advil Not sure if you looked at the turns_by_place stuff in trunk yet; PF and I looked over a few and didn't initially find any problems, but someone pointed out this trunk game (no turns_by_place avail): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/krigyl/morgue-krigyl-20200711-221611.txt
01:05:53 <Sequell> gammafunk: OK, I'll let advil know.
01:06:56 <gammafunk> !tell advil It looks like they'd have died between entering Elf:3 and trying to complete Zot:5 (having left Zot:5 for Elf to get more xp/loot). So there was a discussion about the clock in discord if you want to read
01:06:56 <Sequell> gammafunk: OK, I'll let advil know.
01:25:23 <Bcadren> Is & a safe character? like for database lookup and display purposes?
01:35:22 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-379-g5b8897f: Display to-hit in monster xv 10(4 weeks ago, 8 files, 237+ 86-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5b8897f42da4
01:35:26 <Cheibriados> Branch tohitcalc updated to be equal with master: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/tohitcalc
01:35:34 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1464 updated to be equal with master: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1464
01:38:23 <Rotatell> ardl (L25 GnCK) ASSERT(attacker) in 'attack.cc' at line 351 failed. (Vaults:2)
01:38:46 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-378-g7e20f673c0 (34)
01:40:24 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-380-g95eb4fa: Fix a compiler warning 10(72 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/95eb4fa91908
01:40:24 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-381-g96c8680: Give Palentonga charge a to-hit bonus 10(69 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/96c8680b48a1
01:40:49 <travis-ci> The build has errored. (tohitcalc - 5b8897f #14014 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/709875509
01:42:42 <PleasingFungus> hm, i hope that's not me
01:42:47 <PleasingFungus> !crashlog ardl
01:42:48 <Sequell> 2. ardl, XL25 GnCK, T:161715 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ardl/crash-ardl-20200720-053812.txt
01:43:12 <PleasingFungus> great, it's not
01:44:26 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-382-g9031aed: Don't claim Cheibriados slows metabolisms 10(36 seconds ago, 3 files, 5+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9031aedee802
01:46:17 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-383-g9fd5911: Fix another compiler warning 10(24 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9fd5911e232f
01:52:49 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-382-g9031aedee8 (34)
02:01:46 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-383-g9fd5911e23 (34)
02:07:18 -!- johnnyzero is now known as johnny0
02:32:11 <travis-ci> The build passed. (master - 9031aed #14018 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/709877437
03:01:53 <travis-ci> The build passed. (master - 9fd5911 #14019 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/709877771
03:22:50 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-383-g9fd5911 (34)
03:37:29 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3470-gaa44c949d2
05:40:23 -!- toblu2 is now known as toblu
05:58:10 <gammafunk> floraline: do you have a setup that uses apache + nginx, using the latter only for the proxy, or do you use nginx for everything?
05:58:58 <gammafunk> been reading through section 12.5 of https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:server:setting_up_dgamelaunch_and_webtiles and translating a lot of that to nginx configuration is non-trivial
06:04:18 <alexjurkiewicz> gammafunk: i can pastebin my nginx config if you want
06:04:27 <gammafunk> alexjurkiewicz: thx
06:04:50 <gammafunk> I'm not sure how much of that rebuild and save download stuff you're using
06:06:30 <alexjurkiewicz> https://dpaste.com/BPRRRT92G
06:06:30 <alexjurkiewicz> none really
06:08:09 <gammafunk> cool, thanks; this will be helpful
06:22:28 <alexjurkiewicz> !tell pleasingfungus you'll be pleased to know the CPO weekly challenge is a delver and it's going extremely badly (for players): https://crawl.project357.org/#lobby
06:22:29 <Sequell> alexjurkiewicz: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
08:43:34 <ebering> aidanh: question about your direction-chooser widgetification
08:43:49 <ebering> can you point me to the starting point if I wanted to allow the ^x menu from the chooser to pick a target
08:43:54 <ebering> this would be a big accessibility gain
09:00:58 <aidanh> ebering: as in, you enter the direction chooser with x, then hit ^x to list all items/monsters, and the cursor is moved to the selected item's coords?
09:04:07 <aidanh> you would first alter full_describe_view() to return a coord_def, and then add a CMD_TARGET_ entry to the switch statement in direction_chooser::process_command
09:04:41 <aidanh> just calling set_target() should be enough
09:05:04 <aidanh> ...enough to update the cursor, do all necessary redraws, etc
09:06:11 <aidanh> ebering: but doesn't ^x already allow this?
09:12:53 <ebering> this would be a big accessibility gai
09:12:59 <ebering> oops
09:13:24 <ebering> aidanh: yes, ^x does that from the x mode point of view
09:13:32 <ebering> but I'd like to aim a spell using ^x e.g.
09:13:49 <aidanh> gotcha
09:14:26 <aidanh> should be a pretty straight-forward change i reckon
09:18:53 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-384-gb778e2a: Adjust Alistair's Intoxication 10(21 minutes ago, 5 files, 38+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b778e2ae0127
09:19:17 <ebering> cool
09:19:17 <ebering> also, do you have any updates on the two ui prs? I don't want to leave the contributor hanging but I know time waxes and wanes
09:21:11 <aidanh> i remember there were requested changes for the level annotations one
09:22:57 <ebering> They force-pushed since your review
09:24:48 <aidanh> i should probably actually post those requested changes
09:24:48 <aidanh> since i think we only discussed them in irc
09:27:30 <Cheibriados> 03syranez02 {ebering} 07* 0.26-a0-385-g1c8c143: Webserver: Enhance lobby_remove message 10(1 year, 4 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c8c1436e23d
09:32:26 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-385-g1c8c1436e2 (34)
09:33:10 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1122 * 0.24-a0-545-gb3961f7: Delete beam-9bbdfd17.o.tmp 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b3961f769a9e
09:46:25 -!- Yermak_ is now known as Yermak\
09:55:45 <Cheibriados> 03Peter Gerlagh02 {ebering} 07* 0.26-a0-386-g8013e45: Force autopickup with ;; 10(8 weeks ago, 4 files, 12+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8013e45feb81
09:57:46 <ebering> woooo prs back down to one page
10:08:27 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-386-g8013e45feb (34)
10:17:51 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-387-g3d505ba: Update the changelog 10(18 seconds ago, 1 file, 44+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3d505ba2c655
10:32:01 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-387-g3d505ba2c6 (34)
10:50:10 <cebolla> ayyyy alexjurkiewicz that weekly seed has GONG
10:50:10 <Sequell> PANG!
11:19:40 <floraline> gammafunk: nginx only
11:19:40 <Sequell> floraline: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
11:22:41 <advil> all these ck farmers are polluting the data
11:26:48 <floraline> do we still want experimental for 1329
11:32:40 <PleasingFungus> advil: ck farmers are perverse individuals...
11:32:53 <gammafunk> floraline: in that case, can you share with me how you got the various save downloading and rebuild scripts to work in nginx?
11:33:00 <gammafunk> because reading into it, it seems pretty non-trivial
11:33:27 <gammafunk> like passing http auth off to the perl script via env variables for the save downloader script (I guess rebuild does same)
11:33:39 <advil> here's an example of a "slow" game with the table: https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/steves/morgue-steves-20200719-174635.txt
11:33:54 <gammafunk> advil: PF is writing up a new clock proposal that he just sketched out in discord, if you'd like to read that
11:33:57 <advil> showing per level data is more annoying than I had thought by the way
11:34:03 <gammafunk> says he's going to make a pr for it
11:34:29 <gammafunk> yeah, did we look at this one?
11:34:30 <ebering> floraline: yes please
11:34:41 <ebering> (re experimental)
11:34:48 <gammafunk> !pr 1329
11:34:48 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1329
11:34:57 <gammafunk> ah yeah that
11:35:20 <gammafunk> not even sure that really needs an experimental
11:35:25 <gammafunk> but no harm in it I guess
11:35:26 <advil> so much dev discussion on discord :-(
11:36:23 <advil> can I just say, again, that it's really hard to catch up on dev discussion there
11:36:33 <advil> it's fine if you're there and participating when it happens, but otherwise
11:36:51 <gammafunk> advil: sorry, yeah, we never really resolved that whole situation
11:36:58 <gammafunk> anyhow, he's going to make a PR that can be read
11:37:08 <gammafunk> he also did find that particular morgue (alas, discussed on discord)
11:37:52 <ebering> advil: can you turnover the trunk updates pin please? https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/huneq0/trunk_updates_20_july_2020/? for the new
11:38:06 <gammafunk> I'd be happy to make a dev discord, but we'd need people to use it
11:38:11 <gammafunk> I think aidanh is kind of anti-discord
11:38:37 <ebering> it's nice to have a place that has a bit less of a gawking crowd to discuss things
11:38:50 <ebering> harder to get derailed by out of scope swipes here
11:38:55 <advil> the scrollback problem is partly just that there's often other conversations going
11:39:09 <advil> also, tbh I do worry that we're currently overloading what is supposed to be a player channel with dev discussion
11:39:16 <gammafunk> yeah
11:39:38 <gammafunk> not that the channel has ever been terribly concerned with on-topicness (a common thing on that server in general, really)
11:40:40 <gammafunk> oh, and I should mention that there's the question of moderation and moderation rules for any dev discord; I assume this is still open to the public?
11:40:51 <advil> probably
11:40:56 <advil> same rules as here? (whatever they are)
11:41:46 <gammafunk> right, there are just a few past-and-current malcolmrose associates that I have blocked on the discord
11:41:46 <gammafunk> and I do not want to unblock them and generally interact with them
11:42:23 <Pinkbeast> It could maybe be read-only?
11:43:13 <gammafunk> hrm, maybe; devs-only discussion channel, I'm not sure
11:43:14 <advil> I would still want a bot linking this channel
11:43:25 <gammafunk> yeah, the IRC bot
11:43:28 <advil> I think that individual level blocking would be the same as in discord, no?
11:43:35 <advil> *in the other discord
11:43:53 <advil> in terms of server-wide bans, there are people banned from here, seems like they should act as a unit
11:44:10 <gammafunk> yes, definitely
11:44:49 <advil> I guess having an open discord opens us up to ultra-racist spam in a way that this channel doesn't somehow
11:45:39 <gammafunk> it does, although setup can mitigate that fairly well, something I'm ok with taking on
11:45:47 <floraline> gammafunk: i don't know, that sounds like maybe the cgi settings in my config. i'll have to take a look at that
11:45:58 <gammafunk> floraline: thanks, would appreciate that
11:46:08 <floraline> whatever has to be done, it is not very complex iirc
11:46:20 <gammafunk> I think if we have multiple of us act as mods, that should cover the case of discord blocks, so said people can still interact with a mod if that's necessary (or be moderated effectively)
11:47:18 <gammafunk> we can sort of just use whoever has voice here as the mod list initially and expand as necessary
11:47:18 <gammafunk> er who has...what do you call it...ops
11:47:18 <gammafunk> not voice; that's just devs
11:47:26 <advil> can you imagine what the mailing list advocates of yore will think of this
11:47:28 <gammafunk> in any case I can start to set up a server and see if I can get it configured; might not get it rolled out today, but good project
11:47:31 <gammafunk> hehe
11:47:48 <floraline> are we getting rid of this channel?
11:47:53 <advil> I did find out the bridge bot that was being used on another server that I mentioned
11:47:55 <advil> floraline no
11:48:03 <advil> over my dead body :-)
11:48:23 <floraline> thank you :)
11:48:23 <gammafunk> yeah, no; in fact, if we go through with this
11:48:23 <advil> but like I said I do want to run a bridge bot
11:48:37 <gammafunk> hrm...actually..this makes me realise...
11:48:45 <ebering> advil: Content-Type: multipart/tears;
11:48:45 <gammafunk> if we do a bridge, this channel will probably have a lot more traffic
11:49:08 <gammafunk> which might be annoying to some? just something to think about, I guess
11:49:33 <gammafunk> I'm also not super experienced with the caveats of those discord-irc bridges, but I guess we can find out the joys of that together
11:49:33 <advil> maybe? I'm on the brogue ce dev discord and I think in practice there aren't so many randoms that will join as you think
11:49:48 <gammafunk> well, that's good to hear
11:49:48 <ebering> I mean in days gone by this channel produced >100kb day logs
11:50:02 <advil> possibly even fewer than the notalkers in this channel!
11:50:21 <gammafunk> yes ebering but 90k of that was grunt making puns and me saying nonsense, doesn't count!
11:50:57 <advil> irc idling is something that has always been kind of mysterious to me, I have to admit
11:51:42 <advil> so am I understanding right that the new clock idea is per branch?
11:51:55 <advil> but otherwise similar
11:52:50 <gammafunk> advil: the bank is per-branch overall, but the bank increases by level like PF's current branch
11:52:50 <advil> ah the bank, not the clock
11:52:50 <advil> I couldn't find the exact reasons to drop the global bank, is it just that the variance is too high depending on the branch?
11:53:05 <advil> which, it does seem a bit high in a predictable way
11:53:28 -!- Yermak\ is now known as Yermak
11:53:34 <advil> ah I guess the entering-and-then-leaving case is also weird under a global bank
11:53:35 <gammafunk> well, we found this game where a player went to elf after already having gone though zot:1-5, partially completing 5
11:53:38 <gammafunk> yeah
11:53:43 <advil> which I agree with
11:54:02 <gammafunk> so they got the 5k*3 from elf, but after spending the turns on elf:3 in part and some backtracking to d
11:54:28 <gammafunk> they ultimately would have died before the orb due to the clock unless they dipped into crypt
11:54:50 <advil> right, zot 5 and elf 3 are often done much later which would exacerbate global bank tightness in many games I suspect
11:54:56 <advil> er, I meant vaults 5
11:54:58 <advil> but zot 5 too
11:55:02 <gammafunk> yep
11:56:04 <advil> this seems like an improvement but it does increase the amount of hidden information players might feel like the need to track
11:56:05 <gammafunk> PF's sort of remaining concern for the new proposal is someone who dives through a lot of D, tries to return much much later before winning to clean up levels
11:56:10 <gammafunk> right
11:57:02 <advil> I don't think that necessarily takes a lot of turns if it's just killing the ghosts or something
11:57:09 <gammafunk> yeah I don't either
11:57:34 <gammafunk> it's sort of nice that the turns_by_place data is sort of perfect for looking at this now
11:59:10 <advil> hm, in my t game I did that sort of cleanup before entering zot and it was about 2k turns for 2 misc uniques, 4 ghosts (done in probably a really non-optimal order)
11:59:30 <advil> so that's not nothing
12:00:01 <gammafunk> apparently some dcss repos were selected for this? https://archiveprogram.github.com/
12:00:08 <advil> 86474 was my last marked turn in vaults 5, 88886 was zot 1 entry after the cleanup
12:00:09 <advil> yep
12:00:12 <advil> we should all have a badge
12:00:27 <advil> in fairness I don't think it took much for oss to make the cut
12:00:33 <gammafunk> yeah, probably not
12:00:44 <advil> but crawl and sequel are definitely there
12:00:51 <advil> *sequell
12:07:28 <advil> gammafunk the bridge bot I was mentioning that seems better (feature-wise at least) than whatever roguelikes is using is: https://github.com/reactiflux/discord-irc
12:07:47 <advil> not sure how I feel about it being written in react
12:08:02 <gammafunk> yep, was just looking at that
12:08:33 <gammafunk> is it actually react? I thought that's just for html content generation stuff
12:08:42 <aidanh> how can a bot be written in react? that seems.. unusual
12:08:49 <advil> I can't remember what exact feature we were discussing, but maybe just better handling of @x from the irc side
12:09:29 <gammafunk> I guess you sort of want to pick one side of the bridge to use
12:09:52 <advil> I actually switch back and forth all the time on this other server
12:10:24 <advil> I do wish I had a way for my irc client to not highlight when I type something on the discord side, but that probably is just something where I need to try harder
12:11:03 <advil> aidanh it's running in Node.js
12:11:12 <advil> probably "written in react" is not a good way of phrasing
12:11:58 <gammafunk> aidanh is going to love discord
12:12:00 <gammafunk> just love it
12:13:40 * aidanh groans
12:13:51 <floraline> down with centralization
12:15:36 <advil> tbc my feelings about this are that participating in discord should be strictly optional and everything crucial should somehow appear in this channel, but there is some clear demand (and even I find it more convenient at times) so it's better to accommodate than be restrictive
12:16:06 <gammafunk> sure, that's fine
12:16:30 <aidanh> yeah i'm fine with a discord bridge as long as you don't take my precious irc away
12:16:40 <advil> historically it seems like there was some kind of simmering resentment over email vs irc on the devteam like 10 years ago that probably we should try to head off
12:21:36 <Kelbell> Experimental (kobold-nightstalker) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-357-g09c86f2a93
12:23:20 <gammafunk> The great split of 2020 hapen when we hit the discord dev server 50 emote and I refuse to add ebering's new PullRequestSlayer emote
12:23:25 <gammafunk> *happens
12:25:02 <Kelbell> Webtiles server stopped.
12:25:05 <Kelbell> Webtiles server started.
12:27:45 <floraline> gammafunk: https://pastebin.com/iMvbtznU see line 36 fcgiwrap stuff. you'll have to install that
12:30:00 <floraline> and again, everyuthing about my setup i learned from alexjurkiewicz. his stuff is probably made of better stuff
12:34:23 <Cheibriados> New branch created: viewmap-widget (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/viewmap-widget
12:34:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07[viewmap-widget] * 0.26-a0-388-g051a10d: Reimplement the map view as a widget 10(2 months ago, 2 files, 181+ 190-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/051a10d44ec7
12:35:27 <gammafunk> floraline: thanks
12:37:27 <gammafunk> hmmm
12:38:54 <gammafunk> hrm
12:39:11 <gammafunk> I suppose nginx is just automatically passing the environment vars through fastcgi
12:39:18 <gammafunk> in apache this has to be done in a special step
12:40:09 <gammafunk> well done via a RewriteRule flag, I guess
12:41:31 <gammafunk> https://crawl.kelbi.org/goat/
12:41:53 <gammafunk> ^ not a yak
12:51:40 <advil> why don't we have goats
12:51:47 <advil> they seem a lot more likely to attack than yaks
12:52:42 <advil> "Yaks are naturally friendly animals with very few recorded incidents of aggression towards humans. ... They are herbivores and munch on grass, flowers, moss and tubers."
12:53:03 <advil> I suppose the power of zot has driven them crazy, just like the quokkas
12:56:14 <Cheibriados> Telling allies to retreat doesn't work 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12322 by quik
12:58:46 <gammafunk> advil: australian yaks. a whole other ballgame
12:59:22 <aidanh> i can't believe there's not been a pr for kangaroos yet
12:59:41 <gammafunk> I feel that's somehow too obvious
12:59:50 <gammafunk> or stereotypical
12:59:56 <gammafunk> then again, we have boomerangs
13:00:23 <aidanh> next up, geryon's didgeridoo
13:03:59 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07[viewmap-widget] * 0.26-a0-389-g5271665: Fix excessive redraw in prompt_invent_item 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 15+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/52716655ad75
13:04:39 <aidanh> i *think* that works correctly, but it'll need some more testing
13:18:36 <ebering> aidanh: you jest but actually
13:20:07 <travis-ci> The build passed. (viewmap-widget - 051a10d #14024 : Aidan Holm): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/710074633
13:28:25 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-387-g3d505ba (34)
13:51:05 <travis-ci> The build passed. (viewmap-widget - 5271665 #14025 : Aidan Holm): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/710083359
15:13:29 <Nasst> So, I just saw the full-xp on banishment change.
15:14:01 <Nasst> And that + the lack of spell hunger made me think... Is there any chance for the removal of ally-based xp drain?
15:14:42 <Nasst> I know the effect is minor and all, but I can't help myself from meleeing popcorn in my 0.25 caster with summons.
15:16:50 <Mandevil> BTW, this is new problem in trunk console: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23SPj3SCL68
15:17:40 <Nasst> I feel like it has a similar effect that spell hunger had, where the game incentivized myself from doing something other than what my character's good at, in a way that does not make my character significantly less powerful, but makes the gameplay less fun.
15:27:54 <advil> Mandevil yeah someone just made an issue for it
15:27:54 <advil> aidanh ^
15:31:26 <Mandevil> advil: Me.
15:31:43 <advil> oh heh
15:32:01 <Mandevil> I just edited it.
15:32:13 <Mandevil> It does the same thing on CKO which seems to have newer version.
15:33:26 <Mandevil> There's also additional glitch, probably not related to ranged combat that causes elements of the UI to disappear.
15:33:26 <advil> yeah, I think there are some recent ui changes that are candidates for causing this, but aidanh will know better
15:50:59 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-388-gf3277c4: Track time taken per level 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 36+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f3277c49690d
16:05:15 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-388-gf3277c4969 (34)
16:53:50 <Kelbell> Vladislav (L26 MfFi) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1702 failed. (Vaults:5)
17:09:27 <advil> !crashlog
17:09:29 <Sequell> 22382. Vladislav, XL26 MfFi, T:82188 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Vladislav/crash-Vladislav-20200720-205339.txt
17:17:34 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-388-gf3277c4 (34)
17:23:18 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-388-gf3277c4 (34)
17:55:21 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron
18:24:24 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-388-gf3277c4969 (34)
18:37:43 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] is now known as RonJeremy
18:40:52 <CanOfWorms> so I noticed wand pricing is pretty outdated
18:41:30 <CanOfWorms> the calculation is BASE_PRICE + CHARGES*scaling_factor where (for some reason) scaling_factor is lower if the wand is "good"
18:42:49 <CanOfWorms> the BASE_PRICE component is a leftover from when wands of recharging existed and empty  wands had value
18:44:25 <CanOfWorms> oh the scaling factor might not be lower for good wands, it's just coded in a way to reduce line count
18:46:16 <CanOfWorms> balance wise enslavement is priced the same as paralysis/polymorph even though it's stronger, and it's also cheaper than disintegration/iceblast
18:49:36 <CanOfWorms> in any case it might be good to review how wands are priced
18:59:47 <twelwe> just keep in mind i dont discord or any disco derivatives
20:04:47 <Lightli> is cko lagging for anyone else or is it on my end
20:10:37 <PleasingFungus> !tell Nasst we've wanted to remove the 'ally XP penalty" for a very long time. i don't know if it'll happen in 0.26 (i don't think we have concrete plans), but I do hope it'll happen one day!
20:10:38 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let nasst know.
20:23:16 -!- Taxido is now known as RonJeremy
20:23:54 <twelwe> wow nice sex offender nick
21:13:48 <advil> PleasingFungus wait, we have? That's literally on the infamous wontdo list
21:13:55 <PleasingFungus> huh
21:14:05 <PleasingFungus> is it
21:14:27 <PleasingFungus> i know there's been a lot of discussion lately
21:14:45 <advil> (I don't really have a strong opinion about it myself, in that I don't feel like I even understand whether it has an impact)
21:15:10 <PleasingFungus> >  More numerical feedback, for stealth or MR or piety or damage dealt to monsters.
21:15:26 <PleasingFungus> >  Make Regeneration non-Necromancy
21:15:30 <PleasingFungus> these are a lot of good won't dos
21:15:45 <advil> also, last modified 2017
21:18:47 <PleasingFungus> i think it's finally time we make weapons of venom create poisoned chunks
21:18:51 <PleasingFungus> i think we should take it all full circle.
21:24:47 <twelwe> ideas of pure ownage currently duscussed
21:29:45 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-389-g5bc9781: Tweak time per level formatting 10(28 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5bc978101036
21:30:38 <Cheibriados> New branch created: zot_branch_bank (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/zot_branch_bank
21:30:38 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[zot_branch_bank] * 0.26-a0-341-g2128016: Remove unused statuses 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2128016e8d2e
21:30:38 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[zot_branch_bank] * 0.26-a0-342-g29f5a7c: Invoke the malevolent chronology of Zot 10(4 days ago, 20 files, 192+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29f5a7c16b5c
21:32:25 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-389-g5bc9781010 (34)
21:32:41 <PleasingFungus> advil: here's another clock
21:34:01 <PleasingFungus> it's pretty much what i described in the infamous discord chat. the only thing i sort of want to add is a warning before taking stairs back to a level that you're known to be bezotted in
21:34:44 <advil> huh yeah I guess you can get soft-locked out of a branch
21:35:33 <PleasingFungus> yes
21:35:38 <PleasingFungus> that was one of my Three Concerned Bullet Points
21:36:12 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/1493 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1493
21:36:12 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1493 updated to be equal with zot_branch_bank: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1493
21:36:23 <twelwe> i dare you to post your special points on SA
21:36:31 <PleasingFungus> (1) getting locked out of a branch if you spend insanely long there (2) you can scum individual branches sort of safely sometimes (3) if someone really dives D and then goes back to try to clear it later, they'll have trouble
21:36:39 <PleasingFungus> twelwe: that sounds awful
21:36:57 <twelwe> ill defend you
21:37:23 <twelwe> man delvers are just screwed more and more huh
21:37:32 <PleasingFungus> nah
21:37:37 <PleasingFungus> they get special secret extra clock
21:37:40 <twelwe> poor minmay, he has to go to d:5 just to have fun at clvl1
21:37:42 <PleasingFungus> i love delvers. they're my babies
21:37:53 <advil> btw I had an amusing but bad idea as a death alternative: you start getting, at greater and greater rates, orb guardians that hit with a distortion effect and are also allowed to spawn in abyss
21:38:25 <PleasingFungus> lots of ways to do durable summons, sure
21:38:40 <PleasingFungus> but then we couldn't add snozzcumber death messages
21:38:43 <advil> fair
21:40:24 <twelwe> PF lightly deserves some kind of unique named centuar that self shafts at 20%HP for making CeDe 100% winrate
21:40:57 <twelwe> a unique you cannot kill unless its at the bottom of a branch
21:41:08 <advil> I guess adding more and more special casing is bad because it makes the system more spoilery, but it does seem odd that the branch bank for D and e.g. crypt are the same size
21:41:55 <advil> another spoilery thing to do would be to give branch ends an extra 1k turns
21:41:55 <twelwe> can spawn on any level, scales to that level, and re-scales to the level it shafts to
21:41:55 <PleasingFungus> i don't think you need either of those things really
21:41:55 <twelwe> please do this
21:42:01 <PleasingFungus> since you still get per-floor time
21:42:06 <Gretell> svalbard (L9 OpDe) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:255)
21:42:09 <PleasingFungus> (so crypt has way less time)
21:42:33 <twelwe> go the spelunky ghost route
21:42:46 <twelwe> 5x5 instakilling slow moving ghost
21:42:51 <PleasingFungus> isn't the spelunky ghost the one you're supposed to lure everywhere to turn things into diamonds
21:43:02 <twelwe> no benefit lik that of course
21:43:31 <twelwe> its the core level clock that has a fringe benefit for high score schievers
21:43:47 <advil> I do think that any durable summons people would take as a challenge, xp or no
21:49:32 <PleasingFungus> maybe? idk
21:50:26 <twelwe> any change to mana regen with this clock?
22:16:43 <advil> another probably bad idea that occurred to me was to make getting the rune lower the clock a bit
22:16:47 <advil> *a rune
22:17:52 <advil> if bezotting kicks in when someone is in e.g. vaults 5 are they going to have issues getting out?
22:22:19 <twelwe> what is bezotting supposed to be?
22:30:44 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[zot_branch_bank] * 0.26-a0-343-g71d6689: CR comments 10(22 seconds ago, 5 files, 30+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/71d66898fa94
22:30:50 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1493 updated to be equal with zot_branch_bank: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1493
22:31:35 <advil> PleasingFungus re delvers, I was thinking it might work to just give them one extra level's worth, to soak up a bit of travel time + the need for extremely careful play
22:31:38 <advil> none might be fine too
22:32:27 <advil> perhaps data will tell us the answer
22:32:33 <alexjurkiewicz> I wonder if it would be useful to give the player messages like "Welcome back to the snake pit. There are two unvisited floors in this branch you can lose the attention of Zot with."
22:32:33 <Sequell> alexjurkiewicz: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
22:32:57 <advil> I think the idea is to mostly not draw attention to it under normal circumstances
22:33:10 <advil> although I guess you have in mind if they are already bezotted?
22:33:39 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah, I was thinking about the "oh no I'm under attack" case. But you can check ctrl-o for this info I've realised
22:34:48 <alexjurkiewicz> and yeah. I think the clock is quite complex to explain and most of this info is not required in the 99% case. So better to have a paragraph in the manual and status light help and leave it as that
22:39:15 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-389-g5bc9781 (34)
22:41:19 <advil> PleasingFungus this is most likely something you're already aware of but just in case not: store.cc objects are serialized to arbitrary degrees of recursion and all you need to do to create one in props is call `get_table()` on the key
22:41:47 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[zot_branch_bank] * 0.26-a0-344-g4c73595: Hash things out 10(25 seconds ago, 3 files, 13+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4c73595e8bf9
22:41:53 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1493 updated to be equal with zot_branch_bank: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1493
22:42:05 <advil> well, on you.props[key]
22:42:05 <PleasingFungus> i stole it from your commit tbh
22:42:05 <advil> heh
22:42:05 <advil> yeah I just did exactly this
22:42:05 <PleasingFungus> it was very convenient
22:42:11 <PleasingFungus> (i considered using your numbers, but i wanted to keep fuzzing things in my way)
22:42:16 <PleasingFungus> also found a good bug there
22:42:27 <PleasingFungus> which was that you entered every new branch at a full clock bank. not intended!
22:42:34 <twelwe> yo for real what is bezotting
22:42:49 <PleasingFungus> the dark entity 'ZOT' becomes aware of you and leeches away your pizza energies
22:42:54 <PleasingFungus> at the end you are a mere husk of crust
22:43:22 <twelwe> to some the crust is the best part
22:43:37 <PleasingFungus> i was once such a soul...
22:43:49 <alexjurkiewicz> You`re pizza tornado grinds to a halt.... the oregano reserves are empty, the journey is over little one
22:43:55 <twelwe> no one pizzas it up like the hut, and they do a toasted parm crust, its like what magic is thought of
22:45:04 <twelwe> cmon i dont rally troll this channel anymore what is bezotting for real
22:45:19 <advil> that descriptionn wasn't too far off
22:45:49 <advil> it's the bad effect in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1493
22:46:27 <advil> "You have spent too much time in one branch, allowing the malevolent entity Zot to
22:46:27 <advil> notice you. You will be repeatedly drained as Zot brings its full attention to bear,
22:46:27 <advil> after which it will kill you instantly."
22:46:43 <twelwe> oh man i hate drain its super bad
22:46:49 <PleasingFungus> how do you feel about dying
22:46:52 <twelwe> i will avoid this and only play melee
22:47:02 <twelwe> how you gonna regen mana
22:47:37 <PleasingFungus> do your non melee characters spend 5000 turns per floor
22:47:37 <twelwe> probably, im not that good, like 2.5% win
22:47:37 <PleasingFungus> !lg twelwe max=turns x=turns
22:47:37 <Sequell> 1403. [turn=147347] twelwe the Petrodigitator (L27 GrEE of Fedhas), blasted by a sphinx (divine providence) on Tomb:1 (tomb_1) on 2014-03-31 18:27:48, with 762366 points after 147347 turns and 16:31:04.
22:47:40 <PleasingFungus> no
22:47:51 <PleasingFungus> that looks like about 2k per floor, maybe less
22:48:05 <twelwe> wtf
22:48:12 <twelwe> that bot always scares the fuck out of me
22:48:22 <PleasingFungus> like seeing your own grave
22:48:29 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08zot_branch_bank @ 71d66898 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/176515893
22:48:47 <twelwe> lmao i played a gargoyle of fedhas?
22:50:33 <twelwe> that cant account for trunk games like my formicids where i just dig and sit endlessly
22:50:33 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-389-g5bc9781 (34)
22:53:42 <travis-ci> The build passed. (zot_branch_bank - 29f5a7c #14028 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/710216176
23:00:45 <twelwe> also whoever came up with frozen ramparts, i love love love you
23:02:08 <PleasingFungus> i think that was gammafunk?
23:02:32 <twelwe> its a formicid dream come true
23:03:31 <twelwe> you can make these 5x1 wall sections, cast in the middle, affecting all five walls, and just run circles for free damage
23:04:19 <twelwe> it should probably should not have a radius of 2
23:04:41 <twelwe> and i should not be advocating a nerf, loving it this much
23:24:56 <travis-ci> The build failed. (zot_branch_bank - 71d6689 #14029 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/710226607
23:48:25 <Bcadren> Was there ever a fork or a PR with dpeg's randomized god concept?
23:53:06 <travis-ci> The build passed. (zot_branch_bank - 4c73595 #14030 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/710228412