03:12:13 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-255-gd5f3108 (34)
03:46:00 <Kelbell> Experimental (delpal) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-273-ge9c366633b
08:48:43 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-38-g19947cb: Fix some outdated wording in hints mode 10(77 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19947cb4e9f2
09:00:25 <gammafunk> I remember when we broke the tutorial by putting an impassable statue in one of the maps and didn't find out for well over a version
09:01:41 <advil> haha
09:02:03 <advil> fr catch2 tutorial tests
09:03:49 <gammafunk> have qw run through the tutorial, fail the test if it can't finish
09:06:42 <advil> are you still thinking about updating morgues at all?
09:07:43 <advil> er
09:07:46 <advil> bones
09:42:55 <gammafunk> advil: yes, thinking about it, but haven't done anything; my free time is somewhat limit atm. We don't have to delay the point release over that, as I can always do a 0.25.2
09:43:14 <gammafunk> I sort of need to both learn the tools a little bit better and actually contact admins to see what bones we can even get
09:43:23 <gammafunk> for cwz and lld, I'm not sure how this will go
09:43:36 <gammafunk> on that note, do you have a suggestion for what I should ask the admins for?
09:45:03 <gammafunk> I would sort of like to figure out a procedure to follow whenever we want to update this, which I guess ideally would be every release if there's time, but just having a specific set of steps that I can document will be helpful, I think
09:45:35 <gammafunk> if it's as simple as getting a tarball of the 0.25 bones dir, that should be easy for me to ask about
09:46:55 <advil> some of them are web accessible
09:47:05 <advil> the tools aren't very good tbh
09:47:14 <advil> just the minimum that I needed when I first did this
09:47:20 <gammafunk> some of the bones files are web-accessible?
09:47:33 <advil> yeah iirc at least
10:32:00 <Cheibriados> 03Eugene Abramchuk02 {advil} 07* 0.26-a0-256-g6423518: Adjust Sprint III cloud generators 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6423518015f9
10:35:45 <Cheibriados> 03Eugene Abramchuk02 {advil} 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-39-g3943662: Adjust Sprint III cloud generators 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39436629b67d
10:47:07 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-256-g6423518015 (34)
10:57:14 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-40-g79a8b10: Draft changelog for a 0.25.1 release 10(27 seconds ago, 1 file, 21+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/79a8b102a9fe
11:06:52 <aidanh> i'm late to the ttyrec storage discussion, but i remember we were discussing a separate ttyrec server that basically proxies a bunch of backblaze or s3 buckets
11:09:05 <aidanh> if cko and cpo already do something similar, it might be worth making that approach 'official'
11:10:13 <aidanh> presumably cko/cpo serve a redirect to the s3 url for the ttyrec when a request comes in, so this would add a hop through the ttyrec server
11:49:40 <PleasingFungus> ebering: ok i have about 15 minutes before i need to go
11:49:47 <PleasingFungus> so this chat...
11:49:48 <PleasingFungus> is on the clock
12:06:53 <PleasingFungus> ok i'm out of time
12:06:59 <PleasingFungus> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FvO9iwFBX4jQxcK9TJYSUybZpydmSeDOVLrK-GlshfU/edit?usp=sharing
12:16:27 <ebering> ooops
12:16:32 <ebering> I was actually playing the came
12:16:41 <ebering> (a sin I know)
12:16:42 <ebering> *game
12:17:12 <ebering> I'll try to write up my thoughts on the matter once I get a good chunk of charms work or delflavor work done
12:21:06 <advil> !kw doublechunkless vlong>=0.26-a0-250-g75e6479
12:21:07 <Sequell> Defined keyword: doublechunkless => vlong>=0.26-a0-250-g75e6479
12:22:05 <advil> seems to have halted starvation deaths so far
12:55:28 -!- bchar_ is now known as bchar
13:02:17 <Henzell> Stable (0.25) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.25.0-40-g79a8b10
13:08:21 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-256-g6423518 (34)
13:28:09 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-257-g47e9e61: Update credits 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/47e9e6152504
13:28:54 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-41-g26779e2: Update credits 10(81 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26779e291dbb
13:29:25 <ebering> advil: I'm currently working on deflavour to change ghouls to not use CMD_BUTCHER and CMD_EAT and remove the associated apparatus
13:29:43 <ebering> idk if you're currently working on the branch
13:29:49 <advil> not currently working
13:30:15 <advil> what do they do instead?
13:31:54 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-257-g47e9e61525 (34)
13:34:11 <ebering> in player reacts if there are corpses nearby they butcher them automatically (flavoured as unholy lust for flesh draws it out) and once per player_reacts chunk heal for a single chunk in los
13:34:59 <ebering> some issues with aut scaling
13:35:09 <ebering> that I need to think through
13:41:07 <advil> well, that would allow removing a lot more infrastructure than I did
13:42:40 <advil> I don't have any more big changes planned besides removing anything more that I have missed; the other kinds of changes I could anticipate are further work on the vaults
13:43:01 <advil> it would be helpful flavorwise to keep chunks as floor items at least :D
13:44:12 <advil> surprising amount of butchery-related vaults
13:50:21 <ebering> yes my plan keeps chunks as items
13:50:24 <ebering> that ghouls can carry
14:31:55 <advil> ah in los includes in inventory?
14:56:47 <elliptic> if ghoul chunkhealing is made fully passive, isn't that pretty close to the Ds mut powered by death?
14:57:35 <elliptic> I feel like keeping chunk items around just for that isn't adding a ton
14:58:09 <elliptic> (also, it's probably a pretty substantial ghoul buff to get free healing compared to what they currently have)
15:01:37 <elliptic> (there's a pretty huge difference between "you sometimes have the option to spend an entire turn to heal 10ish HP" and "you get free healing in the midst of every big battle without spending turns on it"
15:01:38 <elliptic> )
15:12:40 <ebering> yeah, I'm still thinking about the best solution there
15:13:05 <ebering> but keeping eating and chopping just for ghouls also seems bad
15:16:55 <ebering> hm. how about this: corpses that drop for ghouls drop butchered and ghouls have an ability that requires a chunk present to activate chunk heal
15:19:51 <Lightli> goldify chunks!
16:12:59 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07[deflavour] * 0.26-a0-258-gac2051c: Remove butchering and eating 10(42 minutes ago, 138 files, 120+ 2820-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac2051c12732
16:24:56 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08deflavour @ ac2051c1 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/163734083
16:36:04 <travis-ci> The build was broken. (deflavour - ac2051c #13853 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/706658188
17:35:40 <Cheibriados> arrival_aquarium_a and arrival_aquarium_b still have no_submerge tag 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12309 by bcadren
17:43:36 <ebering> .
17:43:42 <ebering> oops
17:48:50 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron
18:00:59 <elliptic> ebering: about ghouls, I'd be in favor of doing something with them that lets eating/chopping/chunk items all be removed
18:01:07 <elliptic> even if that's "delete ghouls"
18:02:27 <elliptic> I don't think the chunkhealing is particularly unique or good gameplay, and it's unclear we need 3 undead species at all (though if someone has a good idea for a 3rd undead species then there would be room for that!)
18:07:56 <elliptic> if we do want an undead species with some sort of healing/regen coming from defeating enemies, I wouldn't try to tie it to the idea of chunks and would instead do some sort of weak healing-on-kills (as provided by makhleb, but much weaker) or some sort of regeneration on kills (as powered by death, but again weaker)
18:09:16 <ebering> elliptic: I'm not in favor of removing chunk items because of OOD/exploding monster flavor
18:09:16 <ebering> but, removing them as something useful to interact with I could get behind
18:09:21 <elliptic> I'm confused
18:09:36 <ebering> it's fun to explode a monster and see chunks fly
18:09:45 <elliptic> you want chunks cluttering up the ground as actual items (even uninteractable) just for flavor?
18:09:52 <elliptic> I thought that's what blood sprays were for
18:10:45 <elliptic> like I was going to ask what the plan was about monster corpses cluttering up the ground now that most characters don't have any use for them
18:11:22 <elliptic> it would be nice to have some sort of toggle so that they just aren't visible anywhere, especially in lists of items
18:12:42 <elliptic> I am strongly against "cosmetic special effects" that interfere with actually interacting with the game
18:14:48 <ebering> re: corpses, that's easy to do. they're already filtered out of ^F and placed on the bottom of stacks. ^x and the map are the remaining places where they show up?
18:14:48 <elliptic> (for this corpse visibility toggle, it could work like the autopickup toggle does currently, in that there's some key combination that toggles it but also circumstances can cause the game to toggle it for you - e.g. if you memorize a necromantic spell it could come back on)
18:14:48 <elliptic> I mean, appearing in bottom of stacks is what I'm complaining about
18:14:56 <ebering> ah
18:15:03 <elliptic> and creating item stacks where otherwise there would be nothing
18:15:04 <elliptic> etc
18:15:28 <ebering> yeah I see
18:18:11 <ebering> ok, here's a quick sketch of a solution: under autohide corpses behavior corpses are only shown if you have something corpse using; this behavior can be toggled with a key. leave in an option always_show_corpses for players who don't want this behavior
18:18:43 <elliptic> yeah, something like that sounds good to me as far as corpses go
18:20:56 <elliptic> for chunks, if they are really purely cosmetic then I feel like they probably shouldn't be actual normal items for code cleanliness reasons, but perhaps there could be some sort of cosmetic layer (that people can mute if they want) if blood spatters aren't enough
18:21:19 <ebering> yeah, blood spatters might be enough
18:21:59 <elliptic> i.e. each square in the map has some sort of cosmetic description text that might get modified by events in game
18:23:20 <elliptic> and if you walk over or examine a square, then you see that additional cosmetic description text if some option is on (or off, I don't have a strong feeling about which way should be the default)
18:25:07 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-257-g47e9e61525 (34)
18:30:47 <ebering> well my local ability chunk healing ghouls feel a bit clunky and silly compared to the rest of the experience, I'll try a makh style heal on kill ghoul tomorrow
18:36:53 <elliptic> my concern about a species with innate heal/regen on kills is really that it will end up being too similar to vine stalker if you balance it in the natural way (i.e. low HP)
18:37:06 <elliptic> you definitely can't just give current ghouls healing/regen on kills with no compensation unless you tweak the numbers so low that it won't be that noticeable
18:38:19 <elliptic> well, I guess at least their regen rate would be drastically different even if they were both effectively "hit stuff to stay alive"
18:39:31 <elliptic> and there's still the potion healing difference
18:40:17 <elliptic> so maybe "relatively weak species but does have decent strength healing on kills" would be an interesting experiment
18:40:37 <elliptic> not sure what I would want apts etc to be.. flavor could be basically any sort of undead
18:40:54 <elliptic> healing on kills just a very strong effect though
18:48:06 <alexjurkiewicz> heal-on-attack? it's a little like vine stalker
19:30:11 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-258-gf3d04de: Fix comment typo 10(18 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f3d04de8c179
19:43:03 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[tohitcalc] * 0.26-a0-154-gdab3053: Fix backlight/umbra effects (WiseOldWolf) 10(28 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dab3053c82ef
19:43:10 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1464 updated to be equal with tohitcalc: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1464
19:46:54 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-258-gf3d04de8c1 (34)
19:59:56 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08tohitcalc @ dab3053c 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/163906897
20:22:41 <Lantell> Stable (0.25) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25.0-41-g26779e291d
20:22:57 -!- werekitten is now known as misha
20:43:02 <travis-ci> The build is still failing. (tohitcalc - dab3053 #13855 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/706710804
21:18:39 <jfcaron> write error while saving: No space left on device on CBO
21:24:45 -!- misha is now known as werekitten
21:35:07 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[tohitcalc] * 0.26-a0-155-geefa633: Rejigger halo/umbra hit calc (WiseOldWolf) 10(63 seconds ago, 2 files, 16+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eefa63350fe4
21:35:13 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1464 updated to be equal with tohitcalc: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1464
22:03:01 <dcss-ci> 04Build failed for 08tohitcalc @ eefa6335 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/164005845
22:22:12 <travis-ci> The build is still failing. (tohitcalc - eefa633 #13857 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/706731044
22:37:40 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[tohitcalc] * 0.26-a0-156-g50a83df: WIP 10(29 minutes ago, 8 files, 66+ 48-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/50a83df106d5
22:37:40 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[tohitcalc] * 0.26-a0-157-g6feed80: New approach 10(23 seconds ago, 3 files, 70+ 42-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6feed80eb4a6
22:37:47 <Cheibriados> Branch pull/1464 updated to be equal with tohitcalc: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1464
22:55:18 <alexjurkiewicz> PleasingFungus: how attached are you to the hp loss food clock replacement? I am interested in hacking together a replacement using the durable summon idea based on code from Hellcrawl's doom timer
22:55:29 <alexjurkiewicz> (it fires if you spend more than x turns on a single floor)
22:55:43 <jfcaron> I hate timers.
22:55:54 <alexjurkiewicz> too bad!
22:55:59 <jfcaron> yep =\
22:56:11 <jfcaron> The timed portals are bad enough, and spotting the Abyssal rune is super stressful.
22:57:22 <jfcaron> But thats just me.  I am happy in 0.25 that food isn't an issue at all.
22:57:56 <elliptic> as I've said here before, I think whatever the "food clock replacement" is should be something that is invisible in "normal" play
22:58:43 <elliptic> anything else is just going to be some combination of annoying and unpleasant to players
22:59:01 <ebering> elliptic: PF's draft clock is still vague but a guiding principle of its outline is in alignment with what you've said
22:59:25 <jfcaron> Players are already punished for taking too many turns in the final score.
23:00:04 <ebering> alexjurkiewicz: so to that end imo a permanent maxhp penalty that starts kicking in aaround the 10k turns without "progress" (tiles or kills) is in the right direction
23:00:04 <ebering> the "10k turns without progress" needs some specific defining (aut scaling &c.)
23:00:10 <elliptic> I glanced at it and it looked pretty much the same as the idea I've said multiple times before except with a lot of time spent thinking about display
23:00:17 <ebering> yes
23:00:37 <elliptic> was it actually a permanent mhp penalty?
23:00:59 <elliptic> anything permanent sounds way too harsh to me
23:01:06 <ebering> the exact penalty (rot vs perm mhp) was tbd
23:01:53 <jfcaron> So I'll have to pre-emptively gather my enchant armour & weapon scrolls so I don't accidentally spend 10k turns gathering them after I find my endgame armour.
23:01:56 <elliptic> well, the question is whether you get it back automatically if the game lets you know "stop resting for 20k turns for no reason" and you go "sure, I'll go play normally for a bit"
23:02:19 <elliptic> and IMO you should
23:02:44 <elliptic> if you are just down 5 MHP for the rest of the game, that's just a gotcha
23:02:53 <elliptic> we don't need that sort of thing
23:03:23 <alexjurkiewicz> ebering: my proposal was changing the penalty frmo max hp to "durable summons spawn around you like orb spawns"
23:03:28 <elliptic> jfcaron: I mean, I would include that (ctrl-fing around the map a few times) as part of "normal" play
23:04:00 <advil> 10k is a lot of turns
23:04:01 <elliptic> so IMO you shouldn't have to do that and shouldn't notice a thing
23:04:09 <jfcaron> I usually do a big hoovering up of enchant scrolls, mutation potions, and buying all consumables from shops before entering Zot 1.
23:04:13 <PleasingFungus> elliptic: my proposal was that you'd be warned well before any penalty
23:04:22 <elliptic> yeah, grabbing enchant armour/weapon doesn't actually take 10k
23:04:37 <elliptic> PleasingFungus: well, I want even the warnings not to happen if people are just playing normally
23:04:42 <PleasingFungus> yes, i agree!
23:04:45 <PleasingFungus> i say exactly that in the doc
23:04:51 <elliptic> okay, sounds good
23:05:35 <PleasingFungus> also i'm sort of leaning away from my "get more time for exploration" plan and toward "get more time per levels seen"
23:05:35 <PleasingFungus> since it's a bit harder and more costly to 'stash' levels than to 'stash' parts of levels
23:05:35 <jfcaron> What are we trying to prevent anyways?
23:05:35 <PleasingFungus> people sitting on stairs for 5k turns until monsters wander away, etc
23:05:37 <elliptic> no
23:05:39 <PleasingFungus> no?
23:05:41 <elliptic> we can't prevent that
23:05:54 <elliptic> see: discussion I had with here the other day with people
23:06:02 <PleasingFungus> i read that but i guess i need to re-read it
23:06:09 <PleasingFungus> i think i disagreed with some parts of it but i forget which
23:06:25 <elliptic> it's not going to be possible to tweak numbers to rule out that sort of thing, at least to some extent, without also being an issue for stashing, backtracking, etc
23:06:33 <PleasingFungus> alexjurkiewicz: i'm not particularly attached to the hp punishment, that's the part of the plan i've thought about least. i do wonder how much spawns are like the old OOD clock
23:07:12 <elliptic> I don't particularly care about the punishment either
23:07:24 <elliptic> basically anything will do I think
23:07:42 <PleasingFungus> elliptic: ah, yeah, agree. i'm mostly hoping to prevent scumming being a trivially repeatable tactic rather than prevent it entirely... don't think we can do better in a backtracking world
23:07:44 <PleasingFungus> as you say
23:08:41 <elliptic> as I said then, I suspect "scumming" like that isn't actually optimal very often and I doubt people would do it much at all even if we removed food today
23:08:43 <elliptic> but sure
23:09:03 <PleasingFungus> i mean, mummies and vampires exist
23:09:05 <elliptic> I agree that the clock can prevent the most egregious resting like that
23:09:13 <PleasingFungus> so it seems like we should already know the answer to this question
23:09:14 <elliptic> yes, and people don't do it right now either
23:09:16 <elliptic> yeah
23:09:26 <elliptic> anyway to me that's not really the goal of the clock
23:09:33 <PleasingFungus> what's the goal of the clock?
23:10:11 <elliptic> the goal is primarily "discourage people from holding down 5 with a shiny cloud generator in sight"
23:11:07 <jfcaron> Have cloud generators run out.
23:11:07 <elliptic> with a minor amount of discouraging xomscumming probably being good
23:11:07 <PleasingFungus> ?
23:11:07 <PleasingFungus> are we talking about mut clouds?
23:11:09 <elliptic> no
23:11:17 <elliptic> I'm talking about harmless clouds hammering the cpu
23:11:19 <PleasingFungus> oh
23:11:50 <PleasingFungus> idk. i feel defeated
23:11:57 <PleasingFungus> probably i will return to my pangolins
23:12:01 <elliptic> e.g. if there's no clock then people might decide it's fun to just hold down 5 in desolation and see what happens
23:12:08 <advil> even just people trying to do apocalypse runs is quite bad actually
23:12:13 <advil> no clouds needed
23:12:13 <elliptic> yeah
23:12:27 <jfcaron> apocalypse runs?
23:12:28 <elliptic> the clouds just make it more fun!
23:12:34 <PleasingFungus> apocalypserobin??
23:12:35 <Sequell> !lg apocalypserobin 11 -tv:<0.1
23:12:35 <elliptic> ??apocalypserobin
23:12:35 <Sequell> apocalypserobin[1/2]: !lg apocalypserobin 11 -tv:<0.1
23:12:40 <PleasingFungus> o/
23:12:49 <advil> wait until the turn count variable reaches its max value
23:12:57 <PleasingFungus> (do not do this)
23:13:05 <jfcaron> oh
23:13:10 <PleasingFungus> (it's been done)
23:13:16 <elliptic> PleasingFungus: anyway a good summary of my current thoughts about clocks is that I don't think they are very important
23:13:19 <jfcaron> Is it 64-bit unsigned int?
23:13:23 <PleasingFungus> yes, i got that :)
23:13:27 <PleasingFungus> it's 200 million turns
23:13:51 <jfcaron> So this is for CPU concerns on the web servers?
23:14:02 <elliptic> that's not to say I dislike the idea of having an unobtrusive clock, and what I know of your proposal sounds reasonable to me
23:14:27 <advil> yes, and disk (since those produce giant ttyrecs also)
23:14:30 <elliptic> I just don't think it's a showstopper and I'd err on the side of it not doing anything
23:14:58 <elliptic> rather than potentially annoying people
23:15:08 <jfcaron> I feel like that should be handled outside of the game by the webtiles somehow...like kick the player out and ban 'em for 5 minutes if they '5' for more than 10k turns in a row or something.
23:15:23 <jfcaron> If thgey wanna hammer their home CPU then let 'em.
23:15:32 <advil> I've looked into various ways of throttling / etc when this last came up
23:15:50 <ebering> jfcaron: I think you're missing something very important here, there is not presently a dev consensus and different people with commit access have different goals
23:15:56 <elliptic> some sort of throttling might be good regardless yeah
23:16:02 <advil> it's technically extremely hard to come up with something very good as part of the crawl infrastructure
23:16:38 <jfcaron> yar
23:16:38 <alexjurkiewicz> people hitting 5 in vision of clouds is nbd, I think. Because it's no worse than hitting 5 in temple as a mummy
23:16:38 <elliptic> that's unfortunate
23:16:38 <advil> something like cgroups would work but it's a bit hard to set up (pretty much impossible on cao)
23:16:57 <jfcaron> Kinda weird to see in-game mechanisms for dealing with CPU load and log files, lol.
23:17:03 <elliptic> alexjurkiewicz: really mummies/vampires of gods without piety decay already existing is some sort of evidence that none of this is a huge deal
23:17:04 <PleasingFungus> i mean, that wasn't my goal
23:17:20 <advil> (cloud generators also used to have a bug where they ran a factor of 100 more than they needed to or so, possible that is why elliptic is mentioning them?)
23:17:32 <jfcaron> It's like Diablo doing extra damage cuz your email inbox is full. =p
23:17:45 <PleasingFungus> and if we think the only effect is to discourage people mashing 5, then i'm not really interested in pursuing it further
23:17:45 <alexjurkiewicz> the real huge deal is that if you remove food without a replaement clock, ultraviolent4 will make a video where he uses some ultra-tedious strategy to win the game and show up the dev team
23:17:51 <PleasingFungus> terrible
23:17:57 <elliptic> that could be, I know resting in desolation in particular used to be noticeably laggy but I think it's fine now
23:18:15 <PleasingFungus> i'm still pleased by finding the 'cloud generators run on load' bug
23:18:32 <elliptic> !lg stabwound max=turn
23:18:33 <Sequell> 760. Stabwound the Farming Skullcrusher (L27 MuSu of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 111 runes on 2008-03-10 02:42:21, with 9425283 points after 92568259 turns and 5d+8:15:16.
23:18:50 <elliptic> already done :P
23:18:57 <PleasingFungus> seems like a lot of turns
23:19:14 <elliptic> !lg stabwound max=turn x=str,int,dex
23:19:15 <Sequell> 760. [str=48;int=1;dex=1] Stabwound the Farming Skullcrusher (L27 MuSu of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 111 runes on 2008-03-10 02:42:21, with 9425283 points after 92568259 turns and 5d+8:15:16.
23:19:26 <alexjurkiewicz> !lg * max=turn -100
23:19:33 <Sequell> 12007128/12007227. dirtyxomscummer the Farming Englaciator (L27 VpCK of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2020-04-15 01:40:42, with 1027605 points after 866735 turns and 6:08:27.
23:19:54 <jfcaron> After 100 turns passed, make it pause 1s per turn. =p
23:19:54 <alexjurkiewicz> !lg * max=turn thisyear
23:19:56 <Sequell> 701485. Zorot the Farming Skirmisher (L5 MuAr of Gozag), quit the game in the Temple (minmay_crystal_snake_temple) on 2020-05-18 17:25:20, with 253 points after 10058216 turns and 1:08:23.
23:20:07 <jfcaron> 253 points nice
23:20:40 <advil> %git a9b13e7d511
23:20:40 <Cheibriados> 07advil02 * 0.24-a0-481-ga9b13e7: Handle delay 0 values correctly in lm_trig.lua 10(1 year ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9b13e7d511b
23:20:51 <advil> "Consequently, each fog machine in desolation ran 200 times per turn."
23:21:23 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah, well maybe just remove the food clock for a while and see what happens
23:22:09 <ebering> deflavour branch is making progress!
23:22:09 <PleasingFungus> :)
23:22:17 <PleasingFungus> boy, it takes a while for monsters to get distracted
23:24:05 <PleasingFungus> so here's a question: why does _monster_forget exist?
23:26:04 <advil> I wouldn't want to answer for what the ai would do without that
23:26:11 <PleasingFungus> hm?
23:26:18 <advil> maybe just wait at the stairs forever though
23:26:19 <PleasingFungus> in other words, if monsters didn't forget about the player after they've been off-level for hundreds/thousands of turns, would the game be worse?
23:26:45 <PleasingFungus> i think they'd just wait at the stairs, yeah
23:26:50 <PleasingFungus> i'll test
23:27:41 <elliptic> I think that's fairly important for making monster location less predictable yeah
23:28:27 <elliptic> it's not really that long, right?
23:28:33 <PleasingFungus> depends on intelligence
23:28:39 <PleasingFungus> !source _mon_forgetfulness_time
23:28:40 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/timed-effects.cc#L516
23:28:54 <travis-ci> The build was fixed. (tohitcalc - 6feed80 #13859 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/706741061
23:29:01 <PleasingFungus> per the comments, they have a 95% chance of forgetting after 4 * forgetfullness_time
23:30:03 <elliptic> hm, are those numbers aut...
23:30:16 <PleasingFungus> no, turns
23:30:24 <PleasingFungus> specifically monster turns, not player turns
23:30:31 <PleasingFungus> so fast monsters forget faster
23:30:39 <elliptic> hm, that is pretty large
23:30:56 <elliptic> maybe it isn't actually important and I'm just thinking of the separate weirdness with ranged monsters
23:31:04 <PleasingFungus> ranged monsters have their own thing yeah
23:31:28 <PleasingFungus> i think this forgetfulness thing only comes up if you (a) go do another branch for a while or (b) are scumming
23:31:34 <PleasingFungus> i kind of really want to delete it
23:32:14 <jfcaron> I mean it matters when you park Sigmund and go back for him after Lair...you gotta find him again on the level.
23:32:23 <elliptic> deleting it is probably fine
23:32:31 <PleasingFungus> jfcaron: you're not making a case for it!
23:32:38 <alexjurkiewicz> 💥
23:33:12 <PleasingFungus> 💣
23:33:12 <elliptic> I think maybe there should be some randomness about non-ranged monster location when you leave the level and come back
23:33:12 <elliptic> but this probably isn't doing a good job of it
23:33:12 <PleasingFungus> sure, i like the idea of adding something
23:33:24 <jfcaron> Do monsters ever go back to sleep?
23:33:29 <elliptic> no
23:33:41 <PleasingFungus> iirc they did in old versions of crawl
23:33:42 <jfcaron> I guess if they did then people would definitely wait forever.
23:33:49 <PleasingFungus> ??mummystabbing
23:33:49 <Sequell> muen guide[1/2]: <N78291> go upstairs -> hit 5 until they fall asleep -> stab
23:33:58 <PleasingFungus> good guess
23:34:06 <PleasingFungus> !gamesby N78291
23:34:07 <Sequell> N78291 has played 6704 games, between 2007-09-23 02:46:23 and 2014-12-03 19:33:50, won 469 (7.0%), high score 33336361, total score 1473450743, total turns 140787276, play-time/day 2:53:12, total time 316d+5:23:04.
23:34:12 <elliptic> yeah, now they just forget about you and become wandering
23:34:17 <jfcaron> It's a more realistic way to stab things though. =p
23:34:17 <PleasingFungus> still stabbable!
23:34:45 <jfcaron> If I had to stab someone I would probably wait until they fell asleep.
23:34:52 <jfcaron> lol
23:35:03 <PleasingFungus> Would you climb up some stairs that your enemies magically couldn't follow you through?
23:35:04 <elliptic> it's fairly important that they become unaware of the player after some time on the level out of sight of the player and that code works fairly well I think
23:35:14 <PleasingFungus> sure
23:35:18 <elliptic> but this offlevel stuff is different
23:37:21 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-259-g1effd00: Make offlevel monsters less forgetful 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 55-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1effd001a970
23:37:45 <jfcaron> I should get into coding for DCSS.
23:37:45 <PleasingFungus> you should!
23:37:45 <jfcaron> I know C++.
23:37:45 <PleasingFungus> it's fun, imo
23:38:00 <jfcaron> I'm not very good at git though.
23:38:20 <PleasingFungus> you don't have to be
23:38:30 <PleasingFungus> we don't do any fancy git magic
23:38:48 <jfcaron> I guess I'd have to come up with a project for myself..like a goal, even if it's a dumb fork that doesn't go anywhere.
23:39:01 <PleasingFungus> yep! i have a long list of ideas if you want any
23:39:32 <PleasingFungus> fun starter projects: monsters, unrand artefacts, bugfixes
23:39:47 <PleasingFungus> or vaults, though that's not coding per se usually
23:39:53 <jfcaron> I tried requesting an account for the community wiki thing...no response, lol.
23:40:00 <PleasingFungus> yeah i don't know what their deal is.
23:43:30 <PleasingFungus> !tell ebering re charms: if new!charms was its own skill rather than being folded into evo, would you want it to be a 'playstyle skill' (like the weapon skills or most of the magic skills) or an 'auxiliary skill' (invo, evo, armour, dodging...)? It sounds like the latter, but I'd like to be clear
23:43:31 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let ebering know.
23:43:56 <PleasingFungus> oh, is there a way to comment on this post directly
23:47:04 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-259-g1effd001a9 (34)
23:48:48 <PleasingFungus> !tell ebering agree re infusion, shroud, spectral weapon, ring of flames. Think it's ok to just remove song of slaying - we can revisit that design space in some other way another time.
23:48:48 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let ebering know.
23:48:55 <jfcaron> aw I like Song of Slaying.
23:49:47 <PleasingFungus> i do too
23:50:06 <PleasingFungus> i think it's a fun effect, and i think it'll reappear somewhere someday
23:50:32 <jfcaron> evocable mp3 player of slaying
23:50:34 <PleasingFungus> an evocable, a racial ability, a god ability, an unrand, an ego...
23:51:09 <PleasingFungus> a summon... (summon inspiring bard???)
23:51:15 <jfcaron> I really think there should be scrolls of animate dead.
23:51:26 <jfcaron> That make permanent undead like Yred.
23:51:31 <PleasingFungus> Why do you think that?
23:52:22 <ebering> PleasingFungus: re a new!charms skill, based on what unfolded as I meditated on dispersing the effects, it seems like a new skill isn't needed
23:52:23 <Sequell> ebering: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
23:52:37 <ebering> hm only two pf tells I wonder what the third message is
23:52:39 <PleasingFungus> yeah, as i re-read the page, that became clear
23:52:43 <PleasingFungus> ooh, mystery tell!
23:53:29 <ebering> oh it's from 20 weeks ago re potion of potency!
23:53:37 <PleasingFungus> wow
23:54:18 <PleasingFungus> battlesphere as pure conj could work; you could also retheme it and make conj/something. what other school would really use b.sphere these days?
23:54:18 <PleasingFungus> earth?
23:54:23 <ebering> earth
23:54:38 <PleasingFungus> could also make it another summon/conj spell, i suppose
23:54:43 <ebering> re song of slaying I've got some good tmut flavour for it
23:54:44 <PleasingFungus> but that feels awkward
23:54:56 <PleasingFungus> ooh, as a form or as something else?
23:55:01 <ebering> (secret plan remove s2s and replace it with that in the starting book)
23:55:11 <PleasingFungus> rip slithery bois
23:55:24 <jfcaron> You could put song of slaying in conjuration or summoning and you summon a floating musical instrument.
23:55:56 <jfcaron> Re: scroll of Animate Dead (durable), it just seems like the right power level for a semi-rare scroll.
23:56:06 <ebering> ($animal)heart, transmute your innards to the spirit of a growling/roaring $animal quickening your blood and giving you a lust to kill &c. &c.
23:56:14 <PleasingFungus> sick
23:56:25 <PleasingFungus> is it a buff that stacks with forms, as now?
23:56:30 <ebering> yes
23:56:34 <PleasingFungus> also, can mummies and gargoyles cast it?
23:56:36 <ebering> no
23:56:39 <PleasingFungus> lol
23:56:43 <PleasingFungus> tmut'd again
23:57:36 <PleasingFungus> jfcaron: do you think it would be a fun effect to have a consumable source of undead allies available to any character? we already have quite a lot of ways to get undead allies
23:58:00 <jfcaron> Yes, I can imagine situations where you could be clever with it.
23:58:26 <jfcaron> Like if you're a melee tank type, you run into a big baddie, so you go back to a previous slaughter and animate them for the upcoming fight.
23:58:43 <jfcaron> Or midway through a fight you need a bit of a boost, so you animate the stuff you've already killed.
23:58:50 <jfcaron> Or to run away.
23:59:50 <jfcaron> All the other sources of undead allies are basically unlimited cuz they are spells or god abilities, this would be consumable (hence the durable undead).
23:59:55 <PleasingFungus> we do have things like scroll of silence, so it's not prima facie absurd to duplicate a spell with a scroll