00:57:52 I just noticed a minor bug in my fork; might be worth someone with a debug copy of mainline checking if it happens there. Features that are turned into trees by summon forest "miss the memo" to change when TRJ dies in Slime...It's minor since summon forest won't grab many of the tiles that are supposed to change in any position you can normally 00:57:53 cast it and casting in a position that grabs a lot of them requires shatter or fedhas' overgrowth which means...yea it doesn't matter that they didn't get removed since you have a method to remove them yourself. 01:39:02 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.26-a0-201-gb271ac0e06 (34) 03:24:26 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.26-a0-201-gb271ac0 (34) 03:31:33 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3371-g11b60bd51a 03:34:50 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-2826-g970b70d9bc 03:56:24 Draw Four messaging can be hard to parse if there's a lot of events occuring 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12303 by CanOfWorms 04:07:25 Storm card gives limited information about its functionality 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12304 by CanOfWorms 06:51:00 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 09:32:46 cheibrodos_fertilizer needs no trap generation mask in hallway 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12305 by Patashu 10:02:58 kate-: I've been thinking more about the Charms changes I'm aiming to do 10:03:02 (for reference: link https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Charms-Overhaul) 10:04:01 in talking with PF I got some suggestions that are maybe scope-creep, but also some ideas about exploring the "items that grant a magical passive enhanced with skill" space 10:04:13 it seems a bit constraining to restrict it to a single slot 10:04:38 (on the flip side, restricting it to a single slot makes balance easier) 10:08:53 I know you previously had concerns about clarity re: wizardly items vs. item categories 10:28:59 New branch created: refactor-directn-rays (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/refactor-directn-rays 10:28:59 03Aidan Holm02 07[refactor-directn-rays] * 0.26-a0-202-gf08e23c: Render direction chooser rays onto vbuf 10(20 minutes ago, 5 files, 36+ 78-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f08e23c29ac2 10:34:51 ebering: I think battlesphere is a bit different from the other charms you list because it is used on characters for which running out of MP in a battle is a serious concern, and depending on the layout of the battle it can easily be a wasted cast (because it can't reach the enemies) or die before doing much 10:34:51 and then the MP you spent on it is an actual cost 10:35:27 it's different from spectral weapon in that the spectral weapon users aren't going to be using MP after casting spectral weapon regardless, so it's not a cost if the spectral weapon doesn't turn out to be useful in the given fight 10:37:45 wow, is this infusion spell erasure??? 10:40:58 I also don't really understand why excruciating wounds is problematic if song of slaying is not, because their downside is basically identical - there's not much difference between a single noise and continuous noise 10:45:53 stairs 10:45:58 I guess? seems pretty minor to me 10:46:27 Also, that draft is old, I'm editing it as I get back into this, and I'm less sure of SoS being ok :P 10:46:34 like "Bad charms are charms that are optimally cast out of or just before entering combat with no downside other than the mp cost." still mostly does not apply to excruciating wounds 10:46:42 that's fair 10:48:00 btw, if we do cut down to 5ish charms spells then I think we should consider removing the school and tweaking the "good" spells as necessary 10:48:24 e.g. could raise the level of the dual-school spells by 1 if we want them to be similarly hard to get castable 10:48:40 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-202-g6a0ef73: Simplify 10(14 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6a0ef731d2c2 10:49:07 yes, thats where my thinking has been heading, to move some charm effects to magical passives and make the school about enhancing magical passives from items 10:49:11 and probably tweak the ozo's armour power -> AC conversion since I think it is mainly used currently on characters with a bunch of ice and not much charms 10:49:44 I think kate- was talking about also removing the ER restriction and instead scaling the AC granted with ER in some way 10:49:56 that seemed reasonable yes 10:50:32 anyway if you have ideas for new charms spells and think the school will be in a decent place, that's fine 10:51:09 just think SoS/swiftness/ozo's armour/excruciating wounds/ddoor does not sound like a spell school in a good place for continued existence :P 10:51:24 I agree 10:51:30 well, ebering's draft has it affecting items beyond those things 10:51:34 and aside from SoS needing a new school, the others could easily be single-school 10:52:19 oh, I see... I think if that is the plan then it should still just not be a spell school 10:52:41 but also it doesn't sound like enough for a skill to me 10:52:58 I'd rather just turn the cool charm spell effects into neat amulets/scarves etc 10:53:13 and not have them scale based on an actual skill 10:54:35 it would be pretty weird IMO to have a skill that does nothing other than scale the effects of a handful of items that you might use in your amulet slot 10:54:35 and having it do that plus be a spell school for 5 random spells with not much connection to each other also seems weird to me 10:56:35 I'm definitely onboard there wrt if it exsits as a skill it's an item interaction skill 10:56:57 IMO we already have an item interaction skill 10:57:08 and should use that for effects that really need to scale with a skill 10:57:14 (evocations) 10:59:17 hm. 11:00:06 the idea was that charms would be for passives (with the skill and those items hated by trog) while evo is for actives (and trog's cool with that) 11:00:21 a berserker with spectral weapon seems like it would be over powered 11:00:50 that just feels like not enough stuff to support a skill 11:00:51 trog could hate anything with an intrinsic mp cost 11:01:00 also I don't think trog should be a specific concern 11:01:13 why is trog + spectral weapon more of an issue than oka + spectral weapon or whatever? 11:01:26 it's likely that if spectral weapon is overpowered with trog, it is overpowered with lots of characters 11:01:42 plenty of non-trog characters don't currently do much with MP 11:02:05 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-202-g6a0ef731d2 (34) 11:03:42 if we want to have some sort of spectral weapon item, some random ideas that might not be overpowered: finite-use consumable, ego that only appears on specific weapon types (e.g. short blades or qstaves), limit it to a single fixedart 11:05:43 in general there are lots of ways of implementing effects somewhere in the game, and I think there's not really a compelling reason to make all the current-charms effects still work the same way as each other 11:06:14 it's basically a coincidence that the current-charms are spells in the same spell school 11:07:40 if we do want to have a second "item interaction skill", I'd propose that the distinction be that evocations is for non-equipment and the new skill is for equipment (both actives and passives) 11:08:15 so e.g. scarf of invisibility activation would be handled by the new skill 11:09:19 but again I'm not sure it's really needed to have a second skill 11:10:37 Ice Beast and Sky Beast are still listed in I instead of Y in dc-mons.txt 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=12306 by bcadren 11:11:07 (my main reason for this division is that I think "applies to a small subset of equipment options" is already going to be quite specialized as skills go, and should be as broad as possible) 11:12:37 I 11:12:51 oops 11:13:15 I like that direction and I'll give it some more thought before diving into implementation 11:17:04 another random thought: HP costs instead of MP costs for some effects could be interesting if we want them to be more universally costs 11:17:29 e.g. spectral weapon costs 10% of your HP 11:26:51 I guess that is similar to harm, though arguably harm would be a more interesting item if it gave some sort of passive spectral weapon instead of what it currently does? 11:27:49 yeah, spectral weapon is sort of a similar idea to harm 11:33:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-203-g0bf9a7b: Remove an archaic variable 10(16 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0bf9a7b5349c 11:36:36 elliptic: what do you think about making equipment effects all "passives" in the sense that they grant their effects by being equipped or used in normal melee or ranged combat 11:37:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-204-gc3c9feb: Fix a copy-paste error 10(14 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c3c9feb471cb 11:50:43 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-204-gc3c9feb471 (34) 11:53:11 ebering: I think having some actives is fine 11:53:53 passives are better in some ways for sure but I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with having some actives too 11:54:59 mainly you just want to avoid actives that people are using literally all the time 11:55:16 as an example, I think +Blink and +Inv work fine 12:04:05 Uhh...so I made a new monster for my fork Giraffe; but for some reason crawl code has decided the plural of Giraffe is Girafves...I'm not actually sure where to look for the solution to this. 12:17:40 Bcadren: english.cc, search for "fe", including the quotes 12:17:47 that's likely a simple hack for knife -> knives 12:18:32 Bcadren: did your sewer have a different tileset? I was considering merging that into mainline crawl 12:22:08 aidanh yea...I don't remember exactly what I did...I'm going to look at it for a minute and see if I remember... 12:31:57 The murky water is a complete resprite. The Stone is edited from Temple and Snake Rock. The floor and rock are already in mainline, but are color variants that aren't used (Cyan version of lair rock) and green version of volcano's floor...and the metal is green version of standard metal...there's also an edited version of "Endless Sea" (Endless 12:31:58 Sludge) used as the outside barrier. https://i.imgur.com/TKCpTiO.jpg How much of that did you want? 12:34:20 I also used the new murky water in Swamp: https://i.imgur.com/Tl4H5Oi.jpg 12:36:02 My warning about the murky water is it being so different than normal water makes some minor vault bugs more obvious...(crawl uses GREEN/LIGHTGREEN as a code word to use that tile outside of sewer...and the pool cleanup code likes to drop the color and a few other things) 12:36:07 aidanh 12:38:39 thanks, that looks good 12:39:15 i did search your repo for modified tiles, but i don't see any; it's possible i'm just on the wrong branch 12:39:52 New branch created: no-spell-hunger (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/no-spell-hunger 12:39:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-203-g13535de: Remove spell hunger 10(52 minutes ago, 21 files, 9+ 150-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/13535de21dc0 12:39:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-204-g3bbebf2: Remove chunk eating for most species 10(14 minutes ago, 11 files, 20+ 56-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3bbebf22cf8a 12:41:30 aidanh fwiw not a huge fan of those tiles 12:42:05 they seem different to what i saw in some other screenshots 12:42:20 not sure if i'm just imagining it 12:44:24 Here's one of the commits; rest should be near there: https://github.com/Bcadren/crawl/commit/7765f7326fb038a3359aa0b49123d484265c8465#diff-bfe2b44fe78b6a02021ad3f9e0aae8b9 12:46:46 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ 3bbebf22 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158433305 12:48:25 thanks, that's probably enough for me to go with for now 12:49:41 while I think more about charms, somethinng to consider 12:51:04 New branch created: pull/1475 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 12:51:04 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 12:52:07 while I think more about charms, somethinng to consider 12:52:13 oops 12:54:32 I wrote a plan for charms for my fork; but haven't gotten around to it yet. IDK if it's anything mainline would consider; but feel free to look. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KPOJUaJo6iwLadw7sU1Tiqu3axuzyZeuGI1jvhYjKI0/edit 13:01:37 New branch created: slowamu (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/slowamu 13:01:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[slowamu] * 0.26-a0-205-g315dddb: Split up some ring equip code 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 136+ 86-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/315dddb2da42 13:01:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[slowamu] * 0.26-a0-206-g062ec70: Add delay on amulet removal 10(48 minutes ago, 3 files, 36+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/062ec704e7d2 13:01:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[slowamu] * 0.26-a0-207-ga48507e: Make amulets armour-slow 10(9 minutes ago, 4 files, 45+ 65-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a48507efb62d 13:01:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[slowamu] * 0.26-a0-208-g48b4e92: Remove some amulet attunement 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 10+ 56-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/48b4e923ac41 13:05:47 The build failed. (no-spell-hunger - 3bbebf2 #13760 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705155335 13:07:17 New branch created: pull/1476 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1476 13:07:17 Branch pull/1476 updated to be equal with slowamu: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1476 13:10:40 -!- Tux[Qyou] is now known as Socks 13:17:40 04Build failed for 08slowamu @ 48b4e923 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158443093 13:30:40 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26-a0-204-gc3c9feb (34) 13:58:06 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-205-g5555618: Remove a dubious string::reserve call in websockets 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/55556182f229 14:00:50 I think that may result in pretty substantial speedup for spectators joining, it does with clang at least 14:02:01 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-205-g55556182f2 (34) 14:08:45 heh, that old code was doing a realloc on every single append 14:09:32 not surprising it was slow 14:10:47 The build failed. (slowamu - 48b4e92 #13762 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705159131 14:10:53 yep, and that function is used constantly 14:13:17 though one might imagine that a good stdlib (apparently not the one on a mac) wouldn't be quite so terrible as my profiling was showing 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-27-g41cfd50: Try to fix flash + input interactions once and for all (12292) 10(5 days ago, 5 files, 92+ 65-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/41cfd50a78a6 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-28-g4c3574d: Set cursor region on fakecursorxy 10(4 days ago, 3 files, 10+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4c3574d69b73 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-29-gd4dcacb: Use a smarter cprintf in output.cc 10(4 days ago, 5 files, 97+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4dcacb7790f 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-30-gf1bef44: Quick fix for crashing map view in webtiles 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f1bef44b5087 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-31-gdfc2177: Save cursor position before clrscr 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dfc2177b4f57 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-32-g45cbda6: Explicitly set the cursor region to GOTO_CRT for map view 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45cbda66518e 14:19:10 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.25] * 0.25.0-33-gff14898: Remove a dubious string::reserve call in websockets 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ff1489849188 14:25:20 -!- operand_ is now known as operand 14:51:02 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-205-g1f4c4b6: fixup! Remove chunk eating for most species 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1f4c4b67a4de 14:51:02 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-206-gcda51dc: Simplify eating related code and interface 10(7 minutes ago, 20 files, 102+ 661-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cda51dc60621 14:51:12 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 14:56:55 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ cda51dc6 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158507418 15:12:12 the other major bottleneck for spectators joining is client side (_send_everything sends everything to everyone and every client rerenders), which requires a bit more thought 15:14:42 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-207-gd5170a5: fixup! Simplify eating related code and interface 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d5170a5cae1d 15:14:42 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-208-g74ef8fc: Uncouple Ghoul rotting from hunger state 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/74ef8fc7c0f5 15:14:53 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 15:18:38 i have a wip commit somewhere that pulls that json stuff into a separate JsonBuffer class 15:19:10 with that, all that would be needed is to first construct a buffer containing 'everything', and then send it to the one client that needs it 15:22:05 aidanh I just wanted to say; all my fork stuff seems overly simple compared to your core work. O_O; 15:24:42 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:26:07 ebering: hmm, i guess i'd tend to agree with elliptic in terms of the charms stuff yeah, in that i'm not sure how well it'd support a new skill but definitely moving bad charms off into new places (whether that's amulets/scarves/unrands/consumables) sounds good of course 15:29:15 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ 74ef8fc7 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158524370 15:29:36 Visual Studio crashed on me and I had to restart O_O; there's a first time for everything. 15:33:07 03gammafunk02 07* 0.26-a0-206-g826ad36: Have traps require LOS_NO_TRANS 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/826ad36590f6 15:33:07 03gammafunk02 07* 0.26-a0-207-g4630968: Rework vaults with trap effects through glass 10(12 hours ago, 4 files, 20+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4630968f2793 15:33:07 03gammafunk02 07* 0.26-a0-208-g06cef45: Remove the 'known' trap designation 10(14 hours ago, 32 files, 95+ 103-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/06cef45bd2c9 15:33:07 03gammafunk02 07* 0.26-a0-209-gaf96a14: Refactor DES 10(12 hours ago, 11 files, 104+ 103-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/af96a1410fe8 15:37:55 elliptic: there you go, trap spam reduced (from 826ad36) 15:38:14 didn't even have to remove any vaults, since the only two that required teleport traps behind glass work fine with iron grates instead 15:39:02 ebering: in a chunkless/spell-hungerless world, it doesn't seem like hydra form should get to eat monsters still 15:40:27 imagining some weird nightmare hypothetical character that dips into the abyss as a hydra to fill up on food after running out of rations 15:40:50 heh 15:41:08 can't believe devs hate such emergent gameplay 15:41:25 I wonder if we should buff food acquirement a bit 15:41:46 if so, probably not by that much 15:42:00 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-209-g5f2ec9a: Remove eating related options 10(23 minutes ago, 5 files, 7+ 55-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f2ec9a3ae1b 15:42:11 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 15:42:41 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-210-g5530ec3: Remove spell hunger 10(4 hours ago, 21 files, 9+ 150-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5530ec33b96f 15:42:41 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-211-g5ea7c31: Remove chunk eating for most species 10(3 hours ago, 11 files, 21+ 57-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ea7c316c790 15:42:41 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-212-g85ece6b: Simplify eating related code and interface 10(59 minutes ago, 21 files, 104+ 665-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85ece6b0e6c8 15:42:41 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-213-g5ddc46d: Uncouple Ghoul rotting from hunger state 10(32 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ddc46d9611e 15:42:41 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-214-g866e0f1: Remove eating related options 10(24 minutes ago, 5 files, 7+ 55-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/866e0f19392f 15:42:51 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 15:43:48 kate-: dang good hypothetical optimal 15:46:28 Most abyss stuff is non-chunk-giving anyways. Only Raiju out of Abyss-unique things give something. But...*shrug* do whatever. 15:47:14 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-209-gaf96a1410f (34) 15:47:38 i guess i'm curious if the goal here is to remove food costs generally and have the food clock just be a function of time spent vs rations generated 15:48:00 kate 15:48:34 oops 15:48:37 kate-: the goal is to move the food clock in that direction yes 15:49:02 spells are the biggest hungering factor that differentiates hunger costs among characters 15:49:04 which seems like a thing that could work and be more consistent, probably berserk is the main other notable non-spell food cost? 15:49:08 The build has errored. (no-spell-hunger - 74ef8fc #13768 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705185039 15:49:29 maybe also pacify? 15:49:55 Disagree? I mean it is -a- big factor; but invocations and berserking can be similarly high. Especially with like Ru, where the invocation only costs Drain and Hunger, without a Piety cost. 15:51:39 what? no ru abilities cost any hunger 15:52:07 kate-: re hydra form devour, are you suggesting no more devour (sad loss of flavour) or no nutrition from devour (what I'm leaning towards) 15:52:25 anyway yeah pacify i guess might also be slightly notable, outside of that there's a few individual abilities with high hunger costs but not that would be used very frequently 15:52:52 Nevermind; I thought they did, there are several god invocations that are that way...how's banish? 15:53:15 I'd have to straight up go look at the ability definitions to remember. 15:54:05 Yred's Animate Remains is used about as often as a normal Necro spell. 15:54:05 i think as a hydra-form mechanic it's always been sort of weird so i wouldn't miss it, but just removing the nutrition would work yeah 15:55:01 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-215-g1e07743: Don't grant nutrition for hydra form devours (kate-) 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1e07743bd397 15:55:11 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 15:55:23 I think that going to hungerless invocations is def. something to look at in 0.26, but I don't have a good feel for it 15:55:42 because the impact of invocation hunger is significantly less than spell hunger (on the number of chunks eaten) 15:57:18 hm, ghoul butchering could be moved to an `a`bility (plus auto_butcher) freeing the c key! 15:57:47 The often spammed invocations might be an exception to that though; Pacify, Banish, Animate Remains, Recite. (IDK what their hunger costs are offhand tho) 15:58:38 Bcadren: if you're trying to help be accurate, Recite doesn't cost hunger 15:59:09 wow, freeing up a key would be quite the historic occasion 16:00:00 Bcadren: I wonder if it would be an idea to look them up first 16:00:03 i'm not sure i can remember any change that's done that since i started playing 16:00:14 Well p hasn't found a new use since 'p'rayer was removed has it? (I guess user macros potentially, but otherwise). 16:01:10 Prayer being removed was the last time. (It printed a god-specific flavor message; generally, on a couple gods it used what's now their first ability (or a removed ability for like Nemelex/Ely and a few others)). 16:01:24 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ 5f2ec9a3 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158536873 16:02:15 ah not an exciting new frontier after all yeah, nevermind 16:02:40 It used to be the key to make a sacrifice on gods that were "piety from sacrificing items" (Nemelex and Elyvilon) but that mechanic was removed completely. 16:03:08 03PleasingFungus02 07[delver] * 0.26-a0-210-g0f281f0: Add Initiate 10(2 weeks ago, 15 files, 85+ 45-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f281f033653 16:03:08 03PleasingFungus02 07[delver] * 0.26-a0-211-g9253f63: Initiate -> Delver 10(2 weeks ago, 16 files, 71+ 78-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9253f6340981 16:03:08 03PleasingFungus02 07[delver] * 0.26-a0-212-g0b06360: Replace delver !inv with ?fear 10(71 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b063608c997 16:03:23 Branch pull/1468 updated to be equal with delver: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1468 16:04:10 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ 866e0f19 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158537141 16:06:08 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-216-g2b6615a: fixup! Simplify eating related code and interface 10(15 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2b6615a39f0e 16:06:18 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 16:10:04 In terms of removing `c` and looking at ability hunger 16:10:25 I'd like to see how this plays out before doing either of those things, if it ends up bad that's less to revert 16:10:55 (I don't think it will end up bad but, you know, the crawlcode cost &c.) 16:11:12 so I think once I get ci passing I'll land this unless there are other big hangons 16:11:19 I feel a mite peckish after reading all these commits 16:12:25 Pinkbeast is a Tengu, confirmed. 16:13:59 i love seeing how active the changelog is 16:16:07 And while ci runs, lunch! 16:24:54 oh, one thing is i think preventing spellcasting while starving would still be fine 16:25:12 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ 1e07743b 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158542566 16:26:33 since it's more like a deliberate restriction of "you can't do a bunch of stuff while starving", hungerless abilities also can't generally be used 16:27:54 yes, I haven't changed that 16:27:58 rip net split 16:33:14 -!- krator44-- is now known as krator44 16:38:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-217-gc090c8b: fixup! fixup! Simplify eating related code and interface 10(21 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c090c8bcadc0 16:39:03 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 16:41:10 The build failed. (no-spell-hunger - 1e07743 #13775 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705191902 16:54:37 04Build failed for 08no-spell-hunger @ 2b6615a3 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158550539 17:01:40 ok, the ci has passed 17:01:48 farewell to spell hunger 17:02:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-212-ga69f94b: Simplify eating related code and interface 10(2 hours ago, 23 files, 106+ 667-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a69f94b37aa3 17:02:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-213-g8c33d26: Uncouple Ghoul rotting from hunger state 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c33d26e5745 17:02:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-214-g7084942: Remove eating related options 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 7+ 55-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7084942c328a 17:02:52 03ebering02 07[no-spell-hunger] * 0.26-a0-215-g1b87330: Don't grant nutrition for hydra form devours (kate-) 10(75 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1b87330c0f8a 17:03:02 Branch pull/1475 updated to be equal with no-spell-hunger: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1475 17:03:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-210-g5530ec3: Remove spell hunger 10(5 hours ago, 21 files, 9+ 150-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5530ec33b96f 17:03:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-211-g5ea7c31: Remove chunk eating for most species 10(5 hours ago, 11 files, 21+ 57-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ea7c316c790 17:03:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-212-ga69f94b: Simplify eating related code and interface 10(2 hours ago, 23 files, 106+ 667-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a69f94b37aa3 17:03:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-213-g8c33d26: Uncouple Ghoul rotting from hunger state 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c33d26e5745 17:03:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-214-g7084942: Remove eating related options 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 7+ 55-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7084942c328a 17:03:26 03ebering02 07* 0.26-a0-215-g1b87330: Don't grant nutrition for hydra form devours (kate-) 10(76 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1b87330c0f8a 17:32:48 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-215-g1b87330c0f (34) 18:23:46 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.26-a0-215-g1b87330c0f (34) 18:39:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] is now known as Socks 18:53:26 !kw nochunkeating cv>=0.26-a0-215-g1b87330 18:53:27 Defined keyword: nochunkeating => cv>=0.26-a0-215-g1b87330 18:53:32 !lg * starved nochunkeating 18:53:33 No games for * (starved nochunkeating). 18:54:10 !kw nochunkeating vlong>=0.26-a0-215-g1b87330 18:54:10 Defined keyword: nochunkeating => vlong>=0.26-a0-215-g1b87330 18:54:10 !lg * starved nochunkeating 18:54:10 1. Silurio the Grappler (L10 TrFi of Okawaru), starved to death on D:8 on 2020-07-05 22:31:33, with 4071 points after 6813 turns and 0:17:47. 18:54:10 should have put that in -sequell oops 18:57:28 The build was fixed. (no-spell-hunger - 1b87330 #13782 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705202055 18:58:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-216-gb2248e6: Split up some ring equip code 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 136+ 86-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2248e6a10f6 18:58:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-217-gbad5f93: Add delay on amulet removal 10(7 hours ago, 3 files, 36+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bad5f93c065d 18:58:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-218-g5e5ef3f: Make amulets armour-slow 10(6 hours ago, 4 files, 45+ 65-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e5ef3fa746d 18:58:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-219-ga7dbce9: Remove some amulet attunement 10(6 hours ago, 4 files, 10+ 56-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a7dbce93e49d 18:58:52 Branch slowamu updated to be equal with master: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/slowamu 18:59:00 Branch pull/1476 updated to be equal with master: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1476 18:59:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-220-g523353d: Lint 10(31 seconds ago, 2 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/523353da42c7 19:07:42 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-220-g523353da42 (34) 19:13:08 good crawl dev day 19:23:30 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-221-gf798f81: Remove hungry ghosts 10(3 minutes ago, 20 files, 40+ 79-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f798f8152999 19:24:17 (minor nerf to player haunt and buff to monster haunt) 19:29:38 The build has errored. (slowamu - a7dbce9 #13785 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705223556 19:30:12 04Build failed for 08slowamu @ a7dbce93 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158644434 19:34:02 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.26-a0-222-g790f60d: Remove unused AF_HUNGER (vt) 10(27 seconds ago, 6 files, 3+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/790f60d8505d 19:46:17 04Build failed for 08master @ a7dbce93 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/158644446 19:48:08 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-221-gf798f81529 (34) 19:59:29 playing weekly challenge on CPO is failing with an assert error 19:59:51 I disabled it during the tourney, so not sure exactly when it started breaking 19:59:57 ERR: ASSERT(you.on_current_level) in 'files.cc' at line 2308 failed. 20:00:53 I think it's a bad interaction with -pregen. gdb is running forever (5mins already) so can't get a crash file 20:06:10 yep, i can replicate with `❯ ./crawl -pregen -name chequers -species Sp -background Wz` against trunk 20:07:32 %git 93d59993c00 20:07:32 07advil02 * 0.26-a0-114-g93d5999: Crash when trying to save the game during a level excursion 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93d59993c006 20:07:44 advil: 93d59993c00 breaks with -pregen 20:17:06 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-222-g790f60d850 (34) 20:22:51 Stable (0.25) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25.0-33-gff14898491 20:37:23 The build passed. (master - 790f60d #13790 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/705229168 20:46:07 PleasingFungus, so now we can carry gspirit around to get 'healing' at the cost of 10 turns, can't we? 22:14:56 Yermak: what do you mean? 22:15:50 > "gspirit doesn't need to drain mp, either 22:16:13 Sure. Can you explain what you mean about getting "healing" from gspirit? 22:16:36 It's certainly possible that I missed something, I'm just not sure what exactly you mean. 22:17:30 If in a dire situation you manage to get 10 turns to swap amulets you can gain extra hp by equipping "gspirit. 22:19:00 Also, on '"regen and "mpreg probably don't need the attunement logic either': all armour with Regen was recently changed to attune at full hp. To keep this consistent, you shouldn't remove attunement from amulet either. 22:19:55 I'm quite confused. What kind of dire situation gives you 10 turns to spend doing nothing but changing amulets? 22:20:06 Easy: close the door into corridor, blink, ?fog. 22:21:27 Main point is I wouldn't want to keep gspirit in inventory for this unusual situation. 22:21:53 That sounds to me like you've already escaped. 22:22:14 Why are you spending 10 turns changing amulets instead of heading for some stairs? 22:23:03 Maybe it's a dead end. 22:24:48 Ok, another example: statues were made to be able to regenerate. Both you and statue are with a sliver of hp. If you retreat and start healing, it will heal up, too. This is when you swap to gspirit and finish it. 22:24:51 So it's a dead end, and you're guaranteed ten turns until enemies catch up to you, and you don't want to teleport or buff up or do anything but swap amulets? 22:25:26 statues are bad enemies and i have no interest in optimizing game design for them 22:25:26 there are really just countless dumb things you can do with statues 22:25:26 regardless of whether you have gspirit or not 22:25:46 The same stands for normal enemy wher you managed to change levels. 22:26:51 so you and the enemy are both low on health, and it's better to re-enter the fight with basically only gspirit for health rather than literally go anywhere else? 22:27:51 It's a viable option that can make you want carrying gspirit. 22:28:27 But not actually using gspirit, because you have another amulet that you'd rather use in any situation except when you and an enemy are both close to death. 22:29:18 Your main choice of maulet can very well be something else. 22:30:57 Sure. 22:31:06 I see where you're coming from, and I think you may well be right and I may have to revert that part of the change. 22:31:16 I'm just hopeful, for the sake of simplicity, that it's too much of a corner case to actually need to worry about. 22:31:29 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-223-ga02c8d4: Fix full pregeneration (alexjurkiewicz) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a02c8d403073 22:32:03 What if we try this for now, and see if issues actually crop up? 22:32:07 Yes, as a player I'd be happy not need to rest every time I put on gspirit. 22:32:24 Yes, that's a good point as well. 22:32:30 oh that commit probably doesn't do what I want it to 22:33:26 it seems a bit ominous 22:35:05 03advil02 07* 0.26-a0-224-g2964c8c: Conditionalize you.on_current_level in load_level 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2964c8cf5080 22:36:02 alexjurkiewicz btw I'm not sure there's quite so many reasons to use full pregen for that monthly challenge mode any more, unless you really want the exact unrands or something 22:39:19 or maybe were you generating the dungeon once for everyone 22:46:54 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26-a0-224-g2964c8cf50 (34) 22:52:55 advil: I was going to try to make a palendonger-delver experimental on CAO with both branches now; do you think we should hold off on that? I'll defer to your judgement there 22:53:35 floraline: not sure if you saw this question, but PleasingFungus wanted experimentals for palendonger and delver for cko 23:01:04 it's probably fine, I don't really forsee it causing any problems, it's just that cao has so much going on and is kind of overloaded 23:01:15 you may need to tweak the lobby a bit 23:03:04 also, I'm not sure cao has ever had an experimental, so there may be some setup that's not entirely obvious 23:03:04 yeah, maybe I'll just hold off; worried about the load problem 23:07:53 solution: merge into master