00:23:36 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
01:12:16 <runrin> how does finesse work with formicids?
01:12:24 <gammafunk> it works normally
01:12:32 <gammafunk> finesse only affects melee/ranged combat, not movement
01:12:32 <runrin> oh really??
01:12:38 <runrin> huh i see
01:12:48 <runrin> kinda figured it wouldnt work
01:12:50 <runrin> thanks!
03:30:51 <Kelbell> Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3099-g23c1886e29
03:36:11 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac
03:48:34 <Kelbell> Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-2730-gd7cc344eec
06:01:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
06:06:46 -!- aidanh_ is now known as aidanh
06:07:27 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
08:57:11 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac
11:03:31 <advil> ugh
11:03:54 <advil> py27
11:08:55 <advil> I wish I had thought to mass-indent this repo before everyone started work on it
11:16:00 <ebering> looking at scoring
11:18:50 <advil> yeah, scoring also needs a mass indent, but I've been too dependent on blame to do it
11:18:50 <ebering> which repo are you looking at then?
11:18:52 <advil> dcss_tourney?
11:19:04 <ebering> oh that's what I meant by scoring
11:19:09 <ebering> I forget they're separate
11:19:50 <ebering> heh, watching you and gammafunk react to the indentation while I'm just sitting here hacking away trying my best to match the local style
11:20:02 <advil> ah are you working on a branch?
11:20:15 <ebering> new-scoring
11:20:19 <ebering> it's pushed to the main repo
11:20:23 <advil> yeah, I see it now
11:21:37 <advil> I would like to rename the html module for py3 compatibility (better would be to move all the python code out of the main directory, but I think that would be too disruptive given the two large independent patches that now exist), will that cause problems?
11:22:14 <ebering> renaming the html module is fine from where I'm at but it might disrupt alexjurkiewicz workflow
11:22:48 <advil> doesn't look like he has major changes to that file
11:30:24 <advil> though it'll be sort of annoying as it's imported in every mako
11:33:23 <advil> I guess I could just give in and run this with py2 locally
11:39:18 <advil> MySQLdb._exceptions.DataError: (1406, "Data too long for column 'killer' at row 1")
11:39:26 <advil> I suppose one or both of you has a fix for this on a branch somewhere?
11:44:37 <advil> (at least if you're testing on the default testing data settings)
11:52:54 <advil> sort of appears not?
11:54:01 <advil> though it may depend on system-wide sql settings
11:58:52 <ebering> I haven't run into that
12:00:08 <advil> there's a logline in one of the 0.24 milestones that has a 60 char killer (appears to be an animated chaos weapon)
12:00:53 <advil> in any case scoring doubled the width of that field soon after the two codebases diverged, so I suspect 50 is not a safe width in general
12:01:07 <ebering> ah I'm using just cpo data for local testing
12:01:12 <advil> ah
12:01:31 <advil> is it ok if I commit some basic fixes on master?
12:02:38 <ebering> sure
12:02:42 <advil> I'm actually a bit surprised that some of these column width issues have never bit us in a live tournament
12:03:14 <advil> `ghost` is also too narrow
12:13:58 -!- cjm_ is now known as cjm
12:43:45 <advil> ebering should I commit stuff to your branch? not sure what the best way to go about this is. But I have some more basic sql changes relative to your branch
12:43:56 <advil> right now this would include *shock* a merge commit
12:44:22 <ebering> yeah a merge commit is fine
12:44:35 <advil> since I wanted to make sure the stuff in master merged cleanly
12:44:51 <ebering> I'm waiting on my sysadmin pals on my local hosting to update mysql there because I misread the version string yesterday
12:45:05 <advil> ah
12:45:10 <ebering> but I *really* don't want to write the ranking queries by re-implementing window function logic in python
12:45:20 <advil> do you use docker?
12:45:32 <ebering> I have not, but I guess I could learn
12:45:36 <advil> alexjurkiewicz's docker thing will probably make testing against specific versions a *lot* easier
12:45:41 <ebering> yes
12:46:25 <ebering> well Nap'kin installed latest mysql for the crawl user as a user instance so we can have the latest w/o requiring all of cdo to upgrade
12:46:26 <advil> oh nice
12:46:51 <advil> mysql is also not that hard to run locally on a mac fwiw
12:46:59 <ebering> it's just.. even something 2 years old and still under lts in the wold doesn't have features every other sane rdbms has had for more than a decade
12:47:34 <advil> are there sane rdbms?
12:47:53 <advil> scratch that, I'm pretty sure there isn't sane software of any kind
12:47:56 <ebering> hah
12:48:10 <ebering> ok, replace sane with "to spec with features for more than writing web forums"
12:48:36 <advil> I was helping someone with oracle a few weeks ago, you want to see insane try that
12:49:12 <advil> I mean, maybe it would have your window functions or w/e but other stuff it was doing was just extremely weird
12:49:43 <cebolla> does this look like a good C tutorial? http://cprog.tomsweb.net/cintro.html#2.4
12:49:43 <cebolla> it's from 2004, is why i ask, but i like that it doesn't have annoying social media login requirements
12:52:12 <advil> if the goal is crawlcode there's a lot of stuff there that would be definite red herrings
12:52:37 <advil> For basic C syntax it looks ok on a very quick glance
12:52:51 <advil> but that's about 1/3 of the tutorial at most
12:53:14 <cebolla> thanks for looking.  herrings as in not used in crawl, or herrings as in works wildly different in crawl?
12:55:00 <advil> probably both? that tutorial has a lot of C99 content when discussing standard library calls, which is some combination of those two. Though there are plenty of remnants of pre-C++ things that pop up in an old codebase like this
12:57:22 <advil> I would look for a tutorial that is aimed at C++11 at least, though I'm not sure how easy it is to find something that is both (not-quite) modern and does not presuppose existing knowledge of C/C++
13:02:20 <advil> sections 2,3,4,5,7,8,9,10,13 all look to be things that are basically embedded in C++ and do show up in crawlcode. sec 14 is something that shows up (we use printf-style syntax heavily) but new varargs shouldn't be added. section 12 is useful to understand but completely different in c++, same with sec 11 except that c streams are not really eradicated (we are just extremely inconsistent about whether we use c or c++ style streams)
13:03:57 <advil> skip sec 15,16, refer to sec 6 only as needed (c++ structs are different)
13:04:02 <advil> also, never use goto
13:34:09 <ebering> ugh homebrew deleted python2 because its eol and this broke all my pip installed python2 packages when I ran a brew update? anyway my local python is hosed
13:34:16 <ebering> well
13:34:19 <ebering> python3 is fine
13:39:34 <advil> (except that it doesn't fully work if you have an up-to-date mako package)
13:40:03 <ebering> aaaaahhhhh
13:41:12 <advil> that was why I wanted to rename html.py
13:41:40 <ebering> ok, well pip2 can't install mysql even though I have mysql installed with the development headers
13:41:52 <ebering> how does docker work and how hard is it to get it running on this mac
13:41:58 <ebering> I hate sysadmining
13:42:01 <advil> haha
13:42:07 <advil> docker is easy enough to install
13:43:37 <advil> for managing python versions on a mac my preferred strategy is not to (a) use anaconda (rather than global package managers), and (b) strictly partition conda evns
13:43:38 <advil> *envs
13:43:47 <advil> so I have a conda env that is just python 2
13:44:02 <advil> (though I do still have like 2 other versions of python 2 installed in other places)
13:44:14 <advil> and my main conda env is just python 3
13:44:31 <ebering> my preferred strategy is to not
13:44:42 <ebering> and use python on the csclub systems that I pay a nominal fee for shell access to
13:44:44 <advil> *is now to
13:45:08 <ebering> where it becomes Someone Else's Problem™
14:12:07 <advil> I guess I never answer the "how does docker work"; it is sort of like a vm, but not
14:12:43 <advil> it lets you very quickly spin up minimal linux setups tailored towards a specific purpose (though you can also use it for very full-featured linux setups if you want)
14:14:51 <advil> an 'image' is ~ a complete state for a linux machine intended to serve as a template, and a container is a specific instance of an image; the latter is what you run, and you create them by instantiating an image
14:16:07 <advil> so alexjurkiewicz's commits provide some scripting (in the form of a docker compose file) that builds an image that has the minimal prereqs for running a dcss_tourney instance, and you can start this up as a container, and use it interactively if you want
14:17:22 <advil> that's it in a nutshell for local use, there's a lot more to say about actually creating docker images for outside consumption
14:18:45 <advil> it's not actually a vm because it's using the host kernel
14:19:02 <advil> tbh I have literally no idea how this actually works on a mac running a linux container
14:19:33 <advil> but it does work
14:22:24 <|amethyst> advil:  Apparently it does run a Linux VM in that case: https://www.docker.com/blog/introducing-linuxkit-container-os-toolkit/
14:22:35 <advil> oh heh
14:22:41 <advil> that would do it
14:23:23 <advil> if so it's a *much* better vm than other ones I've used
14:23:44 <advil> maybe just because it's not emulating most aspects of the system
14:27:59 <Rotatell> Midn8 (L9 FoFi) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:6)
14:57:51 <advil> for these harmonic mean-based tables, I wonder if it would be better to list all players in a tie in a single row
15:03:06 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/1419 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1419
15:03:06 <Cheibriados> 03Byrel Mitchell02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1419 * 0.25-a0-1134-gbc4feb5: Fixed terrain change duration not decrementing while off-floor 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bc4feb5f3098
15:03:17 <cebolla> thanks for the C tips
16:08:58 <advil> alexjurkiewicz my instinct is to make those banners somewhat smaller since there's so many of them
16:08:58 <advil> I like the veh kitty
16:09:53 <advil> also not sold on `font-family: monospace;`, though I realize there's a roguelike aesthetic there
16:11:06 <advil> or rather, it does look ok to me for menus and things like that
17:13:17 <ebering> alexjurkiewicz: for formatting currently I'm recording the score as a DECIMAL(8,3); the precision seems to be needed to differentiate players down the scoreboard
17:13:26 <ebering> but that will influence your design decision
17:13:42 <ebering> or might
17:26:13 <ebering> ok new-scoring team, I've added some stuff for overall rank (!)
17:26:40 <ebering> thinking a bit more about the db design the player_ranks table should just be columns in the players table
17:26:47 <ebering> and overall score could be a generated column
17:27:04 <ebering> but I think I've just spent a bit too long looking at db documentation and am getting feature happy
17:38:54 <alexjurkiewicz> morning
17:39:21 <alexjurkiewicz> I will get a docker branch ready from my giant branch so it can be merged
17:39:26 <ebering> sweet
17:39:38 <alexjurkiewicz> be a couple of hours
17:39:45 <ebering> no worries
17:40:22 <alexjurkiewicz> I'll have a think about the scoring precision. I don't really want to be showing three dp everywhere
17:40:43 <ebering> replace 10,000 with 100,000
17:40:56 <ebering> and then I'm only asking for 2dp :P
17:41:10 <alexjurkiewicz> i'm also not really sold on monospace. But I was reacting to ebering's concern about the new pages looking too "new" for a 20 year old game (which is a fair criticism, I think)
17:41:59 <alexjurkiewicz> A lot of existing dcss webpages have really tiny fonts and don't work on mobile. Larger / newer appearance will to some extent be a byproduct of fixing those. But we don't have to go all in on white minimalism
17:42:32 <ebering> we can do zot grey-on-zot-magenta a la csdc :P
17:43:10 <alexjurkiewicz> i watched this interesting video about purple last night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L51xc6iqeaU
17:43:45 <alexjurkiewicz> i liked the magenta/yellow scheme. It was very zany and hit that "20yo game" mark
17:45:02 <|amethyst> I watched a video on brown a week or two ago
17:45:05 <|amethyst> not in video games
17:46:32 <ebering> hm, setting it to 0dp of precision makes more ties at the low end but maybe its ok
17:48:19 <ebering> let's run it on more than just cpo data and see
17:48:36 <alexjurkiewicz> IMO as a low ranking non-competitor, ties below 50th place sound fine
17:51:18 <alexjurkiewicz> hm, syntax error in the CREATE TABLE games sql line??
17:52:57 <ebering> ??
17:52:57 <ebering> seems to be working here
17:53:08 <advil> alexjurkiewicz does your parser handle comments not on a different line?
17:54:30 <alexjurkiewicz> hm that'd be it
17:54:37 <alexjurkiewicz> you flatter me by calling it a "parser"
17:54:39 <advil> this is why I was thinking it might be easier to just call `mysql` as a subprocess :-)
17:54:42 <advil> haha
17:55:38 <alexjurkiewicz> i'll just adjust that comment for now
17:55:44 <advil> it wouldn't be a big deal to just move that comment ofc, I just pasted that line in from the `scoring` version of this file
17:56:59 <gammafunk> ebering: another thing that will need updating at some point is blacklist-player-db.sh and blacklist_player.sql
17:57:06 <gammafunk> based on your changes to db structure
17:57:20 <gammafunk> not important now, but if you do finally any new db, we should update that
17:57:42 <ebering> put it on the project board! https://github.com/crawl/dcss_tourney/projects/1
17:58:26 <gammafunk> oh, seems to be there already
17:58:26 <gammafunk> unless you literally just added
17:58:26 <ebering> I did
17:59:05 <gammafunk> does the conversion to views mean that lest is permanently stored and more is calculated on the fly?
17:59:15 <gammafunk> s/lest/less/
17:59:16 <ebering> yes
17:59:29 <ebering> well, "yes"
17:59:42 <ebering> the things that I moved to views were dynamic queries already
17:59:57 <ebering> but I wanted to be able to select RANK() OVER them
18:00:37 -!- jfcaron_ is now known as jfcaron
18:03:13 <alexjurkiewicz> should have known a mathemagician would get really excited about exotic sql features
18:04:04 <ebering> I like declarative programming
18:04:24 <gammafunk> ok, so probably won't be an impact on CDO's ability to calculate these in realtime
18:04:34 <ebering> yes
18:04:44 <gammafunk> but I'm eagre to actually test any redesign with test data similar to that of tournaments
18:04:49 <gammafunk> so we can test that CDO can keep up
18:05:12 <gammafunk> previous state of affairs was that it was fine handling data on the fly, but not ok with a full DB rebuild
18:05:19 <alexjurkiewicz> how big is the entire 0.24 tourney database?
18:05:26 <alexjurkiewicz> it might fit in ram
18:05:45 <gammafunk> CDO isn't running only this mysql instance
18:06:05 <gammafunk> it's definitely substantial
18:06:07 <alexjurkiewicz> how big is it compared to mysql's rsz
18:06:12 <gammafunk> how do I check db size?
18:06:21 <gammafunk> in mysql client, that is
18:06:38 <alexjurkiewicz> um there's something in information schema i guess. It should be there in 5.5
18:07:07 <alexjurkiewicz> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1733507/how-to-get-size-of-mysql-database
18:10:54 <gammafunk> interesting, the system mysql client doesn't want to run any more
18:13:32 <gammafunk> well, I can't actually check size, but raw size of input logfile/milestone files ~400 mb
18:13:43 <gammafunk> for games over entire 0.24 tournament period
18:15:45 <advil> for my local db it's about 167M, but do the scripts actually stop reading 0.24 milestones by time?
18:15:55 <advil> if not that might be all 0.24 milestones
18:16:16 <ebering> they do stop reading milestones by time
18:16:55 <gammafunk> yeah, and we turned off the scripts at time of tournament end
18:17:31 <gammafunk> I guess the test I have in mind is just running it from trunk logfiles/milestone files for any tournament server starting from games the time of test
18:17:50 <gammafunk> this will be less data than an actual start of tournament, but hopefully that test will go well
18:18:07 <gammafunk> we do this every tournament anyhow, but at that point we'll hopefully just see that it's chugging along fine
18:23:29 <ebering> in terms of timing, I thinnk June 5 for a start is a lot more comfy than May 29
18:24:15 <gammafunk> yeah that seems fine
18:34:07 <gammafunk> we don't even have finalized scripts yet, and May 29 is about a week away
19:04:10 <cebolla> any chance it could be pushed back to june 12?  junethack occupies the whole month, but because of its length, there's usually a "mid-tournament slump" where activity drops a lot
19:04:19 <cebolla> june 5, there'll still be a lotta nethack activity (for those who play both games at least)
19:47:29 <alexjurkiewicz> advil: https://github.com/crawl/dcss_tourney/compare/new-scoring...alexjurkiewicz:new-scoring-docker
19:49:19 <alexjurkiewicz> This is based off a selective cherry-pick from my rework branch, follow the readme instructions and it should work immediately
21:12:36 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
22:11:48 <kate--> nice, you can dig through gauntlet walls with fedhas
22:13:27 <kate--> i suppose other stuff like shatter and corruption would also work if you somehow have those, not sure if they should be permarock or if it's just fine if you happen to have access to those abilities?
22:14:13 <kate--> probably there's other vaults that use veto_shatter where you shouldn't be able to dig through with fedhas, though, so maybe there needs to be a new veto tag anyway
22:17:24 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
22:52:05 <alexjurkiewicz> there is also veto_dig apparently
22:52:19 <alexjurkiewicz> I wonder if they should be collapsed/renamed into veto_player_dig and veto_monster_dig
22:52:30 <alexjurkiewicz> and then veto_dig is union
22:53:15 <gammafunk> kate--: yeah, it was intentional that those abilities be allowed to work for gauntlets
22:54:01 <kate--> i remember looking into the veto tags a while ago and there's nothing that uses only a subset of the various tags yeah, they should probably be collapsed into a single thing
22:54:02 <gammafunk> I feel that since you have to fight whatever's inside the rooms, it's not too bad to allow them
22:54:36 -!- kate-- is now known as kate-
22:55:34 <gammafunk> Don't think it would be great to use permarock there, as that's making it harder for us to move to not having permarock except as level border
23:03:00 <gammafunk> !lm semitonal gauntlet
23:03:54 <Sequell> 4. [2020-04-21 19:10:23] semitonal the Thaumaturge (L13 GnSk of Uskayaw) entered a Gauntlet on turn 22264. (Lair:4)