01:20:25 03gammafunk02 07* 0.25-a0-737-g26c3a87: Adjust wall selection for Frozen Ramparts (#1330) 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26c3a87c45fb 01:21:23 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-3000-g0d72ed7573 01:32:48 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-737-g26c3a87c45 (34) 02:09:41 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-737-g26c3a87c45 02:45:04 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.25-a0-651-g8c222c7a2b 03:12:12 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.25-a0-737-g26c3a87 (34) 03:31:15 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-3000-g0d72ed7573 09:05:31 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.24] * 0.24.1-2-ga0fcdd1: Don't crash if tornado dismisses a friendly summon 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0fcdd11544a 09:05:31 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.24] * 0.24.1-3-gd9f789e: Make vault epilogues work again 10(3 days ago, 3 files, 25+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9f789e8aabd 09:05:31 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.24] * 0.24.1-4-ge52af88: Fix some demonic rune messaging issues (12232) 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 11+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e52af88ad593 09:23:39 how *do* people feel about marshaling lua code? 09:23:47 it seems bad to me in somewhat nebulous ways 09:23:56 but we definitely can and do do it in a few niche cases 09:24:22 TRJ being one 09:24:43 more specifically, marshaling lua bytecode 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-733-g19c3546: Remove miscasts from Xom effects 10(20 hours ago, 3 files, 1+ 197-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19c35461c29a 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-734-gb555361: fixup! fixup! Decouple distortion unwields from miscasts 10(20 hours ago, 3 files, 39+ 42-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b55536120594 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-735-g4f3b440: fixup! fixup! Decouple distortion unwields from miscasts 10(14 hours ago, 3 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f3b440aa4ed 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-736-g003e601: fixup! fixup! Remove dead code from chaos melee miscasts 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/003e6010f19a 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-737-g44b3d7a: fixup! Remove miscasts from Kiku wrath 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/44b3d7a4f60f 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-738-g071923f: Decouple Zot trap effects from miscasts and revise 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 29+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/071923f1f95a 11:09:00 03ebering02 07[miscast-simplification] * 0.25-a0-739-g77631ef: Refactor and revise miscasts 10(15 hours ago, 11 files, 604+ 3273-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77631ef1ab0d 11:09:08 Branch pull/1341 updated to be equal with miscast-simplification: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1341 11:10:51 advil: marshalling lua bytecode is probably a security risk if the player can do it from clua 11:11:02 it's dlua only 11:11:05 afaik 11:11:31 yeah. I think it means that our lua bytecode version can't go up without a tag major change and that's the only implication 11:12:59 there are some save compat tradeoffs with the more typical crawlcode strategy for callbacks (saving global function names) 11:24:47 well, I think I will rebase this miscast branch and let CI run and then stick it in trunk 11:24:50 oh 11:24:53 I stilll have to do summonings 11:24:54 dang 11:35:11 the new zot trap list looks good but we may want to rethink the possibility of double-zot-trap vestibules with that effect list 11:50:13 anyone know anything about "save file decompression failed: incorrect data check"? 11:50:30 on the face of it it seems to be a zlib error that would result from save file corruption 11:54:25 I can fix the save in a fairly brute-force way it looks like 11:54:47 The build was broken. (miscast-simplification - 77631ef #12993 : Edgar A. Bering IV): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/673805185 13:06:49 -!- Raichvent_ is now known as Raichvent 13:12:21 Stable (0.24) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.24.1-4-ge52af88 13:19:48 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.25-a0-737-g26c3a87 (34) 14:31:27 advil: i would be quite leery of marshalling bytecode, if only due to the incompatibilities it would introduce between binaries compiled with mainline lua vs luajit 14:45:57 regarding double zot traps in Zot, all of those effects were present in the old traps 14:49:02 hrm, seems to have removed the durable summons? 14:54:21 yes 14:54:25 well, my current list has 14:54:39 I'm not opposed to adding them back in, but summons are hard to scale 14:54:47 the other effects are always tactical multipliers 14:56:07 well, I think rare greater demons will always make reasonable threats, for example 14:56:45 min absdepth of zot trap is 15, where they're certainly very fearsome (but zot traps are pretty rare at that depth) 14:57:39 and then even in zot:5, durably summoned tier 1 is an appropriate foe 14:57:48 if it wasn't, we'd not give ancient liches SGD 14:57:54 true 14:58:02 even the right tier 2 can do a lot of good work 14:58:20 a durably summoned 1 or 2 is an easy enough effect to add 14:58:23 the other "interesting" ones are twisters and eldritch tentacles 14:58:44 twisters are more of a comedy effect probably 14:59:05 they definitely can make a situation go very badly if the situation is right, but it's extremely variable 14:59:14 don't think it has any innate scaling issues 14:59:30 and tentacles are appropriate threat regardless of depths; the only issue is you can just get out of los 14:59:38 but I don't think that's too much of a problem 15:00:50 so my strong vote is for SGD durable summons and it would be nice if we could keep the tentacle (again these probably lower weight) unless you feel strongly that any threat that requires retreating from current position isn't sufficient 15:01:26 I guess twister is kind of like direct damage in some ways? 15:01:55 damage doesn't scale, and it does a good deal of harm to adjacent monsters 15:02:05 s/adjacent/nearby/ 15:02:07 twister was in the direct damage branch of the old trap flowchart 15:02:18 and yeah, twister is kind of a ???? could be good could be bad 15:03:03 well, given those other effects we have in the zot trap list 15:03:03 many of which will be no-ops in a lot of situations 15:03:03 some of which, I should say 15:03:03 twister seems ok to that end ditto with tentacle 15:03:21 if you really want to pair down summon-like effect though, my vote is sgd+tentacle to keep 15:03:40 pair down? 15:03:44 pare down 15:03:44 pare down 15:04:07 I can see twister being ok too 15:04:35 gammafunk: yes, they were present (and I've even incurred some of them, hit banish at least once there), but they were fairly low probability 15:05:01 I'm working on a monster for summoning miscasts (per pfs suggestion it abjures) and without zot traps using twisters I think all sources of them are gone in the miscast revision branch 15:05:06 feel abit bad about that 15:05:22 advil: well, weights for some of the more extreme effects can help 15:05:26 my pref for zot would be that the traps are never the same type 15:05:50 being banished at zot:5 is not really much of an issue 15:05:58 that still leaves a zot/tele difficulty spike 15:06:10 well, I can't say I entirely agree with that 15:07:02 well, if you thought that being banished on zot:5 was a relatively extreme threat, ancient liches can do the same with a LOS range spell 15:07:10 it's guaranteed abyss 5 at that point 15:07:33 that one checks MR, no? 15:07:38 I guess I should ask, what is your concern about the double zot trap? balance? because I don't think it significantly raises the difficulty of zot:5 when you get those 15:07:53 sure, but it can succeed, not every char has a lot of MR 15:08:27 banishment with a zot:5-ready character even to abyss 5 is just not that bad 15:08:27 I ... just think you're wrong about that 15:08:35 I mean, no doubt you're a better player than me, maybe you mean "just not that bad" for you? 15:08:53 yeah, not bad if you're playing well is what I mean 15:10:20 but if you think zot trap banishment is bad if it's, say, 10% chance, surely you think the same of ancient liches 15:10:26 and zot:5 generates like a dozen of those 15:10:42 with typical MR values they have 8% chance or so 15:11:02 there's just a lot more you can do about a mobile enemy where a resist affects the ability, vs. something that in rare circumstances some players have very little choice but to step on 15:11:23 I would prefer the two sides to at least offer a choice, even if zot/tele is one of those choices 15:12:22 well, I think if abyss:5 banishment is really too dangerous for zot:5 15:12:27 then that's what we'd need to address 15:13:22 don't really see how generating 10 monsters with the ability is substantively better/safer than generating two stationary zot traps (and functionally only one guaranteed time you'd need to step on one) 15:13:53 the nice thing about those levels is that they shake up the game a bit 15:13:59 I don't think abyss:5 banishment is really too out of scope for zot 5 in general, but I think being (nearly) forced to step on something with an unmodifiable 10% (or whatever) chance to do that, or various other fairly bad things, with no decisions to make, is not great design 15:14:13 (i realize there's silly stuff you can do with blinking and fog) 15:14:47 yeah, well, that's more a argument against force stepping on zot traps, and not a difficulty argument 15:14:57 that would more suggest a solution of no forced stepping on zot traps 15:15:34 whicch I think is what advil is suggesting: that the lung traps be different on the two sides 15:15:38 that actually sounds reasonable to me (though possibly I feel the same way about tele/tele) 15:15:40 yes 15:15:55 it also applies to tele 15:16:00 zot traps are no special case here 15:19:34 the scope of this change also wasn't about lowering difficulty of zot:5 15:19:40 which I don't think is a thing we want to do! 15:20:54 to that end, if we control the weight of these effects, we can see to it that some of the more extreme effects don't happen much more than they used to 15:21:13 flat weighting is probably not going to work very well unless we make all the effects feel comparable 15:21:13 yes, I agree that zot 5 doesn't need a buff 15:21:51 yeah, I don't think increasing difficulty (especially through this particular way) is in the scope either 15:22:40 ug 15:23:02 for example if zot/tele had a similar weight to current zot/zot + tele/tele + zot/tele, that seems similar-ish to the current situation, but just with a hint of a choice 15:24:45 though I have to admit the one time I got that trap layout I tried to take the tele trap out, and I then randomly teleported into the exact same lung like 10 times in a row 15:24:47 I think I ended up just going back round the other way and walking over the zot trap 15:24:55 I just don't think this change to make them mixed is really necessary 15:25:12 you can survive banishment and random teleports both with any character that could survive zot:5 15:25:44 if we really did think that wasn't the case, we'd not have those effects on that level 15:28:09 hrm, can you even see banishments from zot traps as milestones? 15:32:11 ok, found it 15:32:13 !lm * abyss oplace=zot:5 current milestone~~power_of_zot / lg:place=abyss:5 15:32:15 2/196 milestones for * (abyss oplace=zot:5 current milestone~~power_of_zot): N=2/196 (1.02%) 15:32:35 1% of people who get banished by a zot trap on zot:5 actually die in abyss 15:33:58 I should also bring up, since people list this as a really annoying part of zot traps anyhow, that we could remove the banishment effect from zot traps 15:34:32 I'm not particularly beholden to that specific effect; it's not very dangerous in practice and a bunch of monsters have the banishment spell 15:34:43 and distortion melee is pretty common 15:34:56 (also got buffed in terms of chance of banishment recently!) 15:35:42 and nicely enough, banishment is well represented on zot:5 as it is, thanks to ancient liches and killer klowns 15:38:30 yeah, the current table in the branch is more placeholder to start a conversaation than a final version 15:38:49 I wasn't sure what weights i wanted but I was sure how I was going to re-write the code to not use two (2) gotos anymore 15:39:25 ah, but your honor 15:39:30 I submit the following as evidence: 15:39:45 well, I think I will rebase this miscast branch and let CI run and then stick it in trunk 15:45:36 trunk isn't release 15:45:53 I want to give the effects a fighting chance to prove they can kill players :P 16:17:06 killing players with mp drain? big if true 16:48:28 Someone compiling under msys2 is getting an error seemingly related to the app icon: https://pastebin.com/xk3sgQRZ 16:49:11 not sure about that line under the make line about executing the icon.o target 16:49:36 but apparently compilation is otherwise succeeding until those very final steps 17:18:53 i'm looking at cleaning up some WJC stuff still, does anyone have opinions on whether whirlwind pinning should be replaced with something else? i'm currently tending towards just removing it with no replacement, since whirlwind still lets you attack multiple things while moving even if the damage is reduced 17:20:35 my other thought was maybe letting it apply like, a short-duration debuff to accuracy to give it a defensive effect still, but i think i'd prefer to mostly just simplify WJC stuff right down as much as possible to start with 17:25:09 can't really say that pin is worth keeping; movement cleaving is interesting enough on its own, the only issue is how it's just not wise to use unless you're pairing it with serpent's lash or heavenly storm 17:25:21 but having pin or not doesn't really change this 17:25:55 it is sort of just doubling up the ability so that it does two things, AOE and escape 17:29:45 yeah, i really dislike the escape aspect (especially because currently not only does your attack not need to hit to apply it, you don't even need to attack at all - it still applies if your attack speed is too slow) 18:14:13 I don't like pin either, my first reaction is that wjc may feel slightly [more] thin without a small replacement? 18:14:45 but I haven't played wjc in a long time, maybe that's off base 18:19:36 gammafunk do you know if that was windows 10 & an up-to-date msys2? 18:19:51 I don't, but I can probably find out 18:22:11 I just asked; they did mention that they were just going through the directions in INSTALL.txt, so it's probably a fresh MSYS2 setup 18:22:30 will let you know about the windows version when they get back to me 18:24:28 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-737-g26c3a87c45 (34) 19:22:55 Stable (0.24) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.24.1-4-ge52af88ad5 20:31:52 ^status 20:31:52 7 Crawlers. CBRO disk usage=100% (135GB) | RAM usage=24% (4GB)| uptime/CPU= 20:31:52 up 136 days, 18:03, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.07, 0.05 (4 Cores) http://status.berotato.org 20:32:07 I pinged johnstein on discord about CBRO disk being full 20:39:18 ^status 20:39:18 10 Crawlers. CBRO disk usage=94% (135GB) | RAM usage=12% (4GB)| uptime/CPU= 20:39:18 up 136 days, 18:10, 2 users, load average: 0.64, 0.44, 0.23 (4 Cores) http://status.berotato.org