01:58:29 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:56:13 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-1913-g96f783d70f 04:24:33 Fork (bloatcrawl2) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-629-gff89137ce5 05:36:34 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 10:08:33 New branch created: wip-nested-format (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/wip-nested-format 10:08:33 03Aidan Holm02 07[wip-nested-format] * 0.25-a0-354-g87c46ea: Encode nested colours in formatted_string 10(4 days ago, 4 files, 108+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/87c46eaf81fc 10:13:57 New branch created: pull/1249 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1249 10:13:57 Branch pull/1249 updated to be equal with wip-nested-format: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1249 11:06:39 The build passed. (wip-nested-format - 87c46ea #12484 : Aidan Holm): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/631904851 11:22:42 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-91-gf373564dc4 12:56:23 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:02:16 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-354-g148cd44: Fix inner flame messages displaying out of LOS (#12168) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/148cd443ae39 13:14:40 New branch created: maggie (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/maggie 13:14:40 03reaverb02 07[maggie] * 0.25-a0-354-g2945aec: New unique: "Maggie" 10(5 months ago, 12 files, 114+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2945aec8abf8 13:14:40 03reaverb02 07[maggie] * 0.25-a0-355-gbf87380: Change Margery's weights 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bf87380d4183 13:15:25 Not sure what the testing process is for uniques. I think that unique's power-level is approximately right, but I biased high since I think it's easier to tell if a unique is overpowered than underpowered. 13:16:21 Hmm, probably should have changed the date on that older commit, I technically did a bit of work on it 5 months ago but most of the work is new. 13:18:57 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-354-g148cd443ae (34) 13:50:06 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-355-g1045be4: Add descriptions for ranged Agony/Dispel Undead (#12148) 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1045be451815 13:50:06 03kate-02 07* 0.25-a0-356-g7c9d860: Add a cast message for harpoon shot (#11454) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c9d860b3b07 13:53:28 -!- tehgeek is now known as Psymania 14:03:15 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.25-a0-356-g7c9d860b3b (34) 14:09:38 looking at the charms magic proposal on the wiki reminded me about removing regeneration spell again, that seems pretty reasonable to just go ahead and do independent of any bigger charms school changes since regen already exists on a lot of items already 14:10:18 and i think it's by far the most straightforwardly boring and powerful charm still around 14:15:15 how is the book of necromancy and the book of battle these days 14:15:18 ??book of necromancy 14:15:18 book of necromancy[1/1]: Pain, Animate Skeleton, Vampiric Draining, Regeneration, Animate Dead, Borgnjor's Vile Clutch. In 0.22, no longer contains Borg's Vile Clutch. 14:15:43 certainly fine to lose it from book of necro given that set of spells 14:15:46 ??book of battle 14:15:46 book of battle[1/1]: Infusion, Shroud of Golubria, Song of Slaying, Spectral Weapon, Regeneration 14:16:06 should be fine as well since spectral is so good at L3 14:16:51 kate-: not sure if kiku gits need adjustment, but that's another thing to look at 14:18:38 gammafunk: Do you remember what testing you did for Asterion? I pushed a new unique to a branch and I'm not sure if I should do some more testing to ask somebody else to look at it before adding it to trunk. 14:19:29 reaverb: well, I think hold off a bit with maggie, since there should be some balance adjustments there (she's too weak for the proposed range) 14:20:06 asterion was merged a really long time ago by a somewhat different set of people; only real testing on the technical level and it went through several adjustements to get to its present (pretty good) state 14:20:38 which is fine for a unique to go through, but for maggie there were some ideas discussed that sounded like they might be decent that we could consider before a merge 14:21:08 The basic concept sounds ok, I don't know if any other devs have strong objections 14:21:16 let me summarize what was proposed in terms of changes 14:21:47 Sure, I'm find with either adjusting the range or Maggie's power level. Is discussion of Maggie happening somewhere else? 14:22:09 just a bit on the roguelikes discord 14:22:36 I made a good table to help with this... 14:22:53 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r5aE9AEz2f0t5f5HrWxVS4xxIg96-D9BaBPHbbpEh1k/edit#gid=0 14:22:59 shows unique placement across levels 14:23:10 should be current since I don't think any other placement changes have happened 14:25:50 The build passed. (maggie - bf87380 #12487 : Seve Monahan): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/631971870 14:26:08 she's sort comparable to harold in terms of melee damage and hp from what I can tell? 14:26:32 she does have a range 6 damage spell that's pretty strong, and mesmerize, which is pretty tough to escape 14:27:05 hellmonk proposed D:8-12, Lair:1-4 ; I think the rationale is that early on she'd be a bit strong and late Lair pretty weak 14:27:57 Sure, that sounds reasonable change. 14:27:57 d:6-d:9 and lair in generaly doesn't have very high unique coverage 14:28:35 doh, sorry, it's d:9 ; anyhow d:10-12 have significantly higher unique coverage 14:28:52 not that this has to really be a deciding factor 14:29:38 so I guess the coverage isn't too helpful, since if you wanted to improve that, you'd have to restrict her a bit to earlier dungeon and hence nerf her 14:29:45 and then early lair would be out 14:30:38 reaverb: oh, hellmonk did have one other suggestion which sounded nice: "wear a light dragon scale (steam, acid, swamp)" 14:31:19 the lore can be that she upgraded her dragon; the main issue with her dragon armor thing is that she (adult margery) spawns so late that the drop is not relevant 14:31:42 so having her drop ligher scales early when those are more relevant would be neat loot-wise for a fairly dangerous unique 14:32:33 possible to improve the dragon armor that she drops later (and I think margery the adult unique could otherwise be improved a lot as she's just not very dangerous) 14:32:42 but having a connection between the two like that could be neat 14:33:36 Yeah, I'd need to adjust the lore a bit, but changing to a light dragon armor seems like a reasonable change. 14:37:11 kate-: by the way, if you have comments on this, feel free to let me know: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Acquirement-Reform 14:37:27 and applies to any other devs in channel as well; I'm working on the implementation now 14:38:40 I know one of the really old forks did deterministic acquirement. 14:38:40 yeah, quick crawl was it? 14:39:48 I don't recall the name. Maybe it was crawl light? 14:40:50 that sounds about right 14:40:51 ??crawl light 14:40:52 crawl light[1/2]: A fork of Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. https://github.com/dtsund/crawl-light for source, http://inari.aerdan.org/~dtsund/cl_downloads/ for builds. 14:42:35 I remember the implementation of deterministic acquirement being a total hack based on copy-pasting the shop code. Apologize if you were planning to see if you could copy from there >_< 14:44:02 heh, no, I am making the implementation myself, and so it's a bit slow going to figure out how to put all the parts together, but it's going fine 14:44:21 however the shop code and certain things it does menu-wise have been an important source of details/code 15:54:28 !tell reaverb haven't had time to look into the details but I'm excited to see work on the unique progressions 15:54:29 ebering: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 17:10:30 what ebering said! 17:19:46 gammafunk: i imagine there'll still be plenty of scrolls of disappointment with this change, but i like the general idea. i sorta imagine that often there will be one item that's miles ahead of the others, so that there's no real choice in which to pick, but that's still better than the current situation of "you should understand ?acq code very well to make sure you ask for the one thing that will be miles ahead of the rest" 17:21:04 yes, reducing the "scroll of disappointment" effect is nice, but secondary; removing the dependence on spoilers and item identification knowledge is the main thing 17:21:36 it's certainly true that there will still be no-brainer decisions from the scroll, but that's the sort of thing that can be improved over time by better balancing the categories 17:22:32 FWIW i wouldn't call it "deterministic". maybe "transparent"? 17:23:26 it's kinda sad that you have to make it uninterruptible. for example if i'm offered one decent item or a big pile of gold, i'll wish i could check what's available in shops 17:34:56 I don't call it deterministic anywhere; that just might have been what reaverb calls it or what crawl light called it 17:35:37 the interface has a key to check shopping list specifically, but making it fully cancelable presents some issues that might be awkward to overcome 17:36:35 ah, you're right. i mentally mis-attributed that term 17:39:23 i wonder if it would ever be abusable to be able to cancel ?acq and re-run it with the same items later guaranteed 17:39:43 maybe troves? 17:42:59 it would be abuseable 17:43:35 if you got an unrand, you could use it to detect when that unrand generated naturally 17:43:56 well, there are ways around that I guess; we could just generate the unrand fallback 17:44:21 but if you found the unrand naturally, you'd have to update the scroll's items to use the fallback 17:44:47 it's probably a solveable issue, maybe advil should comment though 17:45:48 gammafunk: any thoughts about wizmode acquirement? use the same model, but show a selection from all categories instead of 5? 17:46:33 or just change it in exactly the same way. i don't really know what anyone uses wizmode acq for, so i don't know what behaviour is important 18:12:01 hm, couldn't the ?acq code, if it generates a randart, just mark the randart as "generated for real" until the scroll is resolved 18:12:28 might have some seeding implications either way 18:17:45 does anyone compile crawl without user lua these days? It's an option mentioned in INSTALL.txt but seems vestigial, like cygwin build instructions 18:22:46 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.25-a0-356-g7c9d860b3b (34) 18:46:01 out of curiosity, can anyone recall a time when we made a change from UK-flavoured text to be more NZ-flavoured? i know it happens somewhat regularly that US-flavoured text gets in and we have to convert it, but i am trying to remember cases where the distinction between UK and NZ came up 18:59:54 it's not NZ flavoured, it's AU flavoured!!! 19:01:46 is it? i don't think that's right 19:02:49 well, maybe you're right. linley is from australia. i wonder where i got the idea that it was NZ 20:11:05 this is awkward, I need to return the item index (i.e. item::index()) of an item I make with copy_item_to_grid() 20:11:22 my item def used for copy_item_to_grid() can't tell me the new mitm index directly 20:12:34 so to get this item index it seems I have to go through the item stack at the new position and find it by some kind of comparison to my original item_def 20:19:12 gammafunk: why do you need its index? not having thought very hard about it, i would have assumed you can just put the new item on the ground and forget about it, like a shopkeeper dropping something you can't fit in your pack 20:32:22 New branch created: pull/1250 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 20:32:22 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 * 0.25-a0-357-g40572e7: Rewrite INSTALL 10(16 hours ago, 2 files, 466+ 572-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/40572e7215a4 20:32:22 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 * 0.25-a0-358-g7426ed1: Update license information 10(17 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7426ed1a4c1d 20:32:22 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 * 0.25-a0-359-gc8be920: Update community links 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c8be92060945 20:33:11 big rewrite of INSTALL, keen on feedback 20:33:28 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/40572e7215a4159b309bf2a1e8b1b8773f747abd/crawl-ref/INSTALL.md 20:33:43 (current: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt ) 20:37:08 I think you should keep most of the details in the first section about getting crawl to run, including probably the slightly friendlier section title ("Getting crawl to run") 20:37:53 it's a bit awkward that the document name says that it's about installing when it's really specifically about compilation, but we should some basic info in that section so long as this is the case 20:38:40 for that section, the help with the filenames is pretty useful, as is the bit about saves, although I'm not sure if we've gotten more robust to that issue 20:39:08 also the pointers help on freenode or tavern; obviously we don't need the reference to usenet 20:46:10 03reaverb02 07[maggie] * 0.25-a0-356-g6fe068b: Adjust Maggie's range (hellmonk) 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6fe068ba789b 20:46:10 03reaverb02 07[maggie] * 0.25-a0-357-gbd124de: Adjust the armour Maggie and Margery spawn with. (hellmonk) 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bd124decb4cb 20:46:10 03reaverb02 07[maggie] * 0.25-a0-358-g30ae7c0: Tweak Maggie description to explain her dragon armour 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30ae7c058674 20:46:10 03reaverb02 07[maggie] * 0.25-a0-359-gf49526b: Give Maggie and Margery a 1% chance of carrying Wyrmbane 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f49526bf64fe 20:46:43 gammafunk: ah yeah, i think i had not been a huge fan of that method of ?acquirement as implemented in crawl light in the past because it would feel like it'd be obvious which item would be best when offering so a bunch of guaranteed options 20:46:57 but narrowing it down to a smaller set of options does sound like it might work better 20:52:15 the help about filenames, you mean about which version to download if you're on mac/windows/etc? 20:52:30 I figured that table had been adequately translated to https://crawl.develz.org/download.htm 20:53:16 I figure downloads of the source zipfiles is pretty low these days 21:03:27 reaverb: big fan of maggie 21:07:12 alexjurkiewicz: people opening INSTALL maybe have experienced some sort of a problem running crawl, so giving them some basic pointers in that section is a good idea; I suppose the download page does cover the file details, but we could mention that they need to check that they did get the right file 21:07:42 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 * 0.25-a0-360-g922f3da: INSTALL improvements (gammafunk) 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/922f3dab8a72 21:07:42 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 * 0.25-a0-361-geddd775: Simplify language 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eddd7754bbe0 21:18:35 do you think? I figure people having issues running a pre-compiled version would go back to the place they got it from to look for help (so probably the website). Finding the INSTALL file would involve browsing the app's files, which seems like an advanced move 21:19:49 let me know what you think about 922f3dab8a72 gammafunk 21:25:52 well, we can point them to that INSTALL file from the website; INSTALL has the advantage of being far easier for other devs to update 21:26:04 however pointers could certainly reside on the download page itself 21:28:38 I'll just have to do a pass over it myself at some point when I have a chance 21:34:40 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:39:52 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1250 * 0.25-a0-362-g55984b8: typo (amalloy) 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/55984b836e0b 21:52:23 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy