00:00:22 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.24-a0-246-gb963c9a (34) 00:01:50 Stable (0.23) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23.1-49-g05433c6 00:19:10 The build passed. (master - b963c9a #11319 : Nikolai Lavsky): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/519066982 01:09:42 I'm thinking about improving throwables. I've discussed that at GDD, but I'd like to hear your opinion on this. https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=26251 01:14:56 As svendre said, throwables ammo is designed to be a weapon, not a throwables consumable. 01:15:48 And remove the brand of the ammo. Give a unique ability for ranged weapons. 01:17:05 For example, simply giving javelin a penetration chance or a more complex effect. 01:18:35 This will reduce the 22 types of ammunition to six types: stone, needle, Tomahawk, javelin, rock and net. 01:21:34 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:21:35 Ammo uses a method of charging. It's not infinite ammo and it needs to reload. 01:22:34 There were two opinions on charging method. 01:22:50 Way 1: Press the reload button. (A separate button or .button) 01:23:00 Way 2: reload if the enemy is not in your sight 01:25:09 Maybe this is what it looks like. You have pack of javelins(10/10). You can fire after you wear it. 01:27:42 If your javelin is depleted (5/10), it will be reloaded in one of the methods described above. 01:30:08 do something reloading(v button or . button) or To reload if you don't LoS the enemy. 01:31:42 I personally like the second way. It's because you don't have to press the button cumbersomely. 01:33:48 The lastly,The ranged weapon switching turn is 5 in zero skill and 0.5 as the skill level increases. 01:35:49 I think these methods have answered the following questions. 01:36:19 1. Don't you take up a lot of inventory? 01:36:19 2. You do not have to go around to get ammo? 01:37:08 3. Can you throw it over the lava(Can you use it without worrying about losing the ammo?)? 01:37:17 4. Is it useless if you don't train? 01:37:23 5. Is the improved system as useful as it is now? 01:37:48 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-246-gb963c9a (34) 01:39:07 6. Does Merfolk still shoot 5-15 javelins, and the rock giant shoot 3-7 rocks(an amount similar to that of the present)? Namely, Do players and monsters use ammo in the same way? 02:04:35 here and gone again 02:08:58 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-246-gb963c9a 02:59:32 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-246-gb963c9a 03:30:42 Stable (0.23) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23.1-49-g05433c6f1a 04:56:27 New branch created: vaults-transporters-fix (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/vaults-transporters-fix 04:56:27 03Peter Hurst02 07[vaults-transporters-fix] * 0.24-a0-247-g17268e7: Add a tag to set vaults as passable 10(35 seconds ago, 3 files, 20+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/17268e7f9bdc 08:45:00 With respect to my datafiles PR, what's the consensus on preferring enum values (e.g. SP_HILL_ORC and SK_FIGHTING) over more logical strings (say "Hill Orc" and "fighting") for recommended species and starting skills? I note that in the species datafiles, recommended jobs use enum values but skills and some other things don't 08:51:11 !messages 08:51:11 No messages for TZer0. 09:12:19 NP7: here are some considerations beyond obvious readability ones: (i) git grep works uniformly if you go with enum values, (ii) adding *new* more readable strings adds another layer of notation/translation on top of things 09:13:05 NP7: it might be worth reading over the whole original datafiles PR, there was a lot of review feedback on things like that (https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721) 09:17:37 NP7: also it might be worth thinking about how the bugs that slipped through, despite the fairly intense amount of review from multiple eyes, might be avoided 09:19:35 2e5916de82, d38242e6, d21de941a6 09:20:01 well, in that last one ebering blames it on the reviewers but I don't think that's actually the answer ;-) 09:20:22 git grep> and grep, not to be Captain Obvious 09:20:56 there is only git grep 09:21:37 I now accidentally type "git grep" all the time when I am in a dropbox folder or something 09:23:24 not actually the answer in that I spent a really, really large amount of time reviewing (and contributing to) that PR, as did aidanh, and more reviewing effort for something that large has diminishing returns 09:23:45 some kind of automated comparison would be better 09:23:45 Why would Dith care about Me reflecting (via mirror) Mennas? 09:24:04 no idea, what was the message? 09:24:23 Dithmenos forbids your reflecting this monster. 09:24:35 Same goes for Kiku 09:24:46 oh because dith is evil now maybe 09:25:10 well, it's surely that, but I don't know what conduct is exactly being applied 09:25:52 ah 09:25:55 Well, it's kinda weird since Kiku and Dith don't care about using holy weapons. 09:26:10 It's "if (player_will_anger_monster(*victim))" 09:26:15 yeah 09:26:29 I'd prefer message to be like "Mennas wouldn't serve such an evil being as you." or smth in this kind. 09:26:32 so if you create a clone, the clone will immediately go hostile, because you worship an evil god 09:26:40 or that's what this code implies 09:27:09 player_will_anger_monster is misleadingly named. 09:27:35 It checks if you anger the monster for SAC_LOVE, but otherwise it is a check to see if your god likes the monster, not if the monster likes you. 09:29:31 ... except that player_angers_monster then angers the monster if you somehow manage to do it anyway, so I guess dislike is kind of reciprocal here 09:48:56 Hmm I mean I could diff the old version of job-data.h against the autogenerated version... that still requires a lot of manual processing though because datafiles makes a bunch of lines >80 characters 09:52:07 Something I was maybe thinking of in the long term (especially if there was ever a wish to datify monster definitions) was creating a script to convert the xxxxx-data.h structs into yaml 09:52:42 not really sure of any other ways to guarantee no mistakes 09:53:57 what I will say though is travis caught a typo the other day in an equipment line of one of my yaml files, because job-data.h is checked as one of the FULLDEBUG tests, so that makes me slightly more confident 09:54:22 yes, as part of the review process I did a ton of manual inspections of diffs and found somee stuff that way 09:54:41 and any reviewer of this PR will have to do the same thing 09:55:50 so if there are any tricks you can think of to simplify / automate that process, that would help 09:56:15 I guess splitting into 80-char-width lines would help 09:56:17 in retrospect I should have pushed for (or just tried to do) that in the original PR 09:58:27 Regarding the enum thing, I'm going to avoid changing enum names to more logical strings for now 09:59:04 there is definitely no way to guarantee *no* mistakes, but some of the ones that slipped through could have been caught if someone had done even more manual reviewing of diffs than I did 10:02:15 though tbh I had definitely reached the limits of what time/energy I was willing/able to devote to that PR 10:15:04 sdynet: /win 2 10:15:06 oops 10:51:09 any opinions on whether /enslavement should respect alignments, as phantom mirror does? 10:51:21 currently it doesn't care 10:51:30 (also, haha, it totally works just fine with sac lovee) 10:51:36 *love 10:51:41 stupid macbook keyboard 10:52:32 Well, if it really is "monster hates you", then don't respect it; if it's secretly "god hates monster", do. The second would be simpler because presumably in the former one still has to check for some god cases - Fedhas won't tolerate you enslaving a corpse-violator. 10:54:07 despite the way it is implemented, the intent is definitely about reciprocal hate 10:54:40 I don't think there's a fed check in wand of enslavement either 10:54:46 for other cases there is 10:56:58 yeah, if you cast animate dead, the zombie will immediately go hostile, but wand of enslavement works 10:57:30 "The orc zombie is revulsed by your support of nature!" 11:06:05 currently if you enslave a monster that casts spells under trog, the monster sometimes snaps out of the enslavement with a message like "[monster] becomes enraged by your god's hate for magic" 11:06:34 presumably it snaps out when it tries to cast a spell 11:06:56 I'd say it should probably just stop you enslaving that monster in the first place 11:07:01 (I haven't tested other gods) 11:11:45 %git 706f6395352a6b75e646a3e1decc06c6e2553e3a 11:11:45 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-148-g706f639: Don't ban enslaving god-hated mons (minmay) 10(2 years, 11 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/706f6395352a 11:11:47 for reference 11:13:36 i think this came up the other week? imo if it can be reimplemented in such a way that you can't waste turns trying it, that's probably fine? 11:13:42 but i don't know if that's possible currently without info leaks 11:17:39 ah thanks 11:18:00 definitely need to fix the sac love case in any case, which also needs to not waste turns 11:18:53 though in that case the wand is grayed out so there's already ui pressure not to bother 11:20:45 hm maybe it would be simplest if you just can't evoke the wand at all 11:20:51 for sac love 11:22:56 Stable (0.23) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23.1-49-g05433c6f1a 11:23:27 MarvinPA: what do you have in mind as an info leak? 11:23:50 monsters with multiple spell sets mainly, where some of them might be evil and some aren't 11:23:54 just invis monsters? 11:23:56 oh I see 11:38:30 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.24-a0-247-g369f6e7: Improve description of protection brand 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/369f6e7680be 11:47:44 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-247-g369f6e7680 (34) 11:55:16 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 12:01:32 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 12:26:23 03advil02 07* 0.24-a0-248-ge44751f: Better messaging for when phantom mirror fails (Yermak) 10(78 minutes ago, 3 files, 31+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e44751f50656 12:26:23 03advil02 07* 0.24-a0-249-g2af7e83: Prevent wand of enslavement from being used under sac love 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 29+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2af7e837d0e8 12:28:01 I wonder if that bug has existed basically since the spell was removed 12:40:14 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-249-g2af7e837d0 (34) 13:02:13 Stable (0.23) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23.1-49-g05433c6 13:14:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.24-a0-249-g2af7e83 (34) 13:38:16 ebering: did you see that apple will now repair some mbp keyboards? 13:38:27 mine is getting worse, it's super annoying 13:58:03 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:00:21 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 14:00:50 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:30:27 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 15:42:35 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 17:21:14 FR: add an option that upon pressing tab casts magic if enemy isn't adjacent and melee fight otherwise. 17:44:39 I have a magic-related tab overhaul coming up 17:44:56 it's more ambitious than that 17:47:00 basically I want to try the following: allow anything with targeting to be "quiverable", and allow swapping tab between melee and and quiver quickly, like how ' works. What you're asking hasn't really been on my radar but it should be possible to integrate with that 17:47:33 by "coming up" to be clear I mean that I haven't started on the implementation and it will take some work :) 17:51:25 Optional automatic switching just based on proximity? 17:51:27 i think that specific request is probably pretty easy to add to the existing automagic.lua 17:53:08 it already can resort to melee when you're out of MP, just add another check for being adjacent to your target i guess 17:59:56 That doesn't wield/unwield launchers 18:05:30 he's responding to Yermak's specific request 18:22:09 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.24-a0-249-g2af7e837d0 (34) 18:36:59 advil, I really like how autofight_throw works - it doesn't require you to catch a moment when monster comes close to press ' key. 18:45:51 Tho' not to be Capt Obvious an autofight_launcher necessarily will either be swapping for you with monsters in melee range, or preemptively swap and get caught out - just as a human player does 18:51:03 I tried to say that it's easier not to track the moment when you need to press the other button. 20:37:26 is there a way to use a plain text file to create a dccs character? 20:37:35 *dcss 21:09:47 freelikegnu: Yes; wizard mode can read a morgue file (with moderate success), which is a plain text file (and could be constructed by hand or edited) 21:10:28 cool I'll look that up 21:10:31 thank you! 21:11:09 Well, it's just in the list of wizmode commands in &?, there's not much _to_ look up except I forget if it looks in the current directory or the morgue directory or what 21:11:52 I think you can also specify most of it in an init.txt file? 21:12:55 Ah, yes. I am answering "can I create a character who's XL 13, has these stats, a +3 falchion of frogs, etc"; geekosaur is addressing "can I start a game as a TrBe?" 21:13:21 right 21:13:40 since yours is, well, kinda specific 21:14:03 I think I'm looking for something like geekosaur's query 21:15:06 can that and player name be done on the command line? 21:15:07 There are -species and -background command-line options to select those, too 21:15:14 -name 21:15:15 oh cool! 21:15:43 Dunno that initial weapon selection can be done on the command line. (I think if we had some idea of the end goal here we might be able to help more.) 21:17:24 well I'd like to make a list of character requests (name, spec, br and whatever else they can customize) and queue them up to be run by a bot (like qw) 21:18:15 I'd do that by writing something that edits qw's .crawlrc and invokes it 21:18:45 ah that makes sense 21:31:57 freelikegnu: what are you trying to do exactly, in terms of the motivation for creating a dcss character like this? 21:33:15 making a lua script might be a more direct way to do this 21:33:27 you can see the make tests we do, which use the dlua interpreter to programatically set character details in e.g. 21:33:33 well I have a silly site showing the qw bot to its thing, but I thought it might be fun for a user to customize the bot a little and add it to a queue to run a dungeon 21:33:40 !source mut_species.lua 21:33:40 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/test/mut_species.lua 21:34:11 http://freelikegnu.org:13377/ 21:35:01 depending on what you want to customize, like if it's just species, class, starting weapon, that you could just do via an rc you made based on their input 21:35:15 and I imagine that'd be all you'd want in terms of qw 21:35:43 if you wanted to set fancier details, you'd probably to do programming things through dlua in lua 21:36:01 yep just basic starting options and name 21:36:27 right, definitely use the RC options; I guess dynamically update the RC file based on user input 21:36:54 you can also specify most of that in command-line args 21:38:08 the -species and -background args, and you could use -extra-opt-first to get the weapon choice (forget the name of that arg) 21:40:11 man everything about crawl is magically awesome :D 21:41:11 I hade a much harder time doing this project with other RLs 21:59:02 advil: aaree they doing it for free? 21:59:12 (observe the damage) 21:59:15 heh 21:59:19 oddly only on vowel keys! 21:59:19 apparently! 21:59:28 well then 21:59:28 mine is now e and space 21:59:44 not sure how long they need the computer 22:00:33 also, it's only 2017 and earlier, though I've heard that 2018 computers still have issues 22:00:33 https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/ 22:00:33 mine is on the list 22:02:26 this is a 2018 I think; aat least I bought it in 2018 22:02:59 oh, it's a 2017 22:03:01 excellent! 22:14:01 got'em, my macbook's too old to be affected 22:15:24 argh. now . is repeating sometimes which makes using vim an experience 22:17:57 one thing I've had some success doing is taking a piece of paper and sliding it around under affected keys 22:19:18 I have also but currently I'm in an airport and all I have paper-wise are bar napkins