01:00:54 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.24-a0-189-g5d897e9 (34) 02:37:59 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-189-g5d897e9 (34) 03:08:19 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-189-g5d897e9 03:38:41 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.22.1-99-g03b37656f9 03:59:37 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-189-g5d897e9 05:16:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 07:05:13 New branch created: pull/1011 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1011 07:05:13 03syranez02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1011 * 0.24-a0-190-g6dd0689: Webserver: Enhance lobby_remove message 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6dd06891a5e0 15:10:24 New branch created: pull/1012 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1012 15:10:24 03Erich Erstu02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1012 * 0.24-a0-171-ga57f18b: Merge pull request #1 from crawl/master 10(7 days ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a57f18b3dba4 15:10:24 03Erich Erstu02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1012 * 0.24-a0-191-ga3a1af2: Merge pull request #2 from crawl/master 10(5 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a3a1af2c3e93 15:10:24 031Hyena02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1012 * 0.24-a0-192-g38950c5: Give a Scroll of Brand Chaos Weapon to Unarmed Chaos Knights 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 28+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/38950c5d251c 15:14:03 I have just made a PR to significantly improve the gaming experience as a chaos knight, please be sure to read its description and leave a thumbs up if you like it :) 15:14:17 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/1012 15:26:00 Hyena: does this make all brand weapon scrolls special in this way, or just this first generated one? 15:26:37 not all, only the ones gifted by Xom 15:28:58 i definitely wanted something like this when i was playing CK 15:33:32 yeah, I've played hundreds of CK games and only once did I find a ranged chaos sling from Shoals, soon after that I got teleported near Tesla with low HP and you can guess what happened next :P so the combo is still pretty nightmarish, but more suitable for lazy players such as myself who likes to spam the f-button and use ranged weapons and who only plays gnoll because I'm too lazy to figure out which skills to train :D 15:44:47 that is pretty unlikely to be merged probably, it's a really extreme level of special-casing 15:46:34 along with adding some completely hidden behaviour, that kind of special-casing at character creation is mostly something we explicitly avoid whenever possible 15:56:26 Hyena here, on another computer . arent deities "an extreme level of special casing" to begin with though? this falls under the category of a particular deity's essence ( Xom gifting scrolls that prioritize the chaos brand, makes perfect sense ) 15:58:50 chaos knights starting out with a chaos branded weapon is the same thing essentially ( a special casing ) 16:02:48 selecting "unarmed" just means you don't get a weapon, it shouldn't mean "you don't get a weapon but instead under one specific background you get an unrelated item that secretly works in a different way than usual" 16:02:50 but if that was really a concern, we could always give such a scroll to the player regardless of their initial weapon choice and remove the chaos brand that is added to the weapon right now. fighters start with a potion of might in their inventory, same thing as CK having that scroll 16:04:04 i don't know if this is a problem that needs to be addressed in the first place but if it is then this is the wrong way to solve it, something more reasonable would be to just make xom more likely to apply chaos brands or whatever 16:06:16 why torture the player with random chance if this can be solved at startup though? if xom was to tilt the chances like that the player who wishes a particular startup setup would simply have to re-enter the dungeon hundreds of times to get what they want 16:07:35 oh absolutely not at startup, i mean as a regular xom act 16:08:49 you wouldnt really need more than one chaos branded weapon during all of ck gameplay, so it would be a waste. imagine having many brand weapon scrolls lying around all of them very likely producing the effect that you really need only once 16:09:41 sure, and i am unconvinced it's an issue that needs to be solved in the first place, currently chaos weapons are pretty rare and ranged chaos weapons even more so, and that's intended and fine imo 16:14:09 “Don’t judge someone until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes.” 16:14:09 try finishing the game as CK, perhaps then you will see the light :) 16:40:26 -!- collin38 is now known as rofl 16:56:24 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 17:26:14 MarvinPA: yeah, just try finishing the game as a CK, I dare you 17:39:09 !won MarvinPA ck 17:39:11 MarvinPA (ck) has won 8 times in 173 games (4.62%): 2xDsCK 1xDDCK 1xGhCK 1xGrCK 1xSECK 1xSpCK 1xTrCK 17:39:23 dang. he really took up that challenge quickly 17:39:54 when your rep is at stake, you must act 17:40:29 i even had to reimplement sludge elves just to prove the point 17:41:06 ??sludge elf 17:41:06 sludge elf[1/2]: Elves that knew kung-fu until they were removed in 0.13 17:41:18 ah, still actually playable online, on CAO at least 17:41:28 but that might be the only server with it these days 17:55:34 Ghosts in ghost vaults with shafts can be shafted out of their vault 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11926 by NormalPerson7 19:29:49 MarvinPA: impressive stats for CK (if you sticked with Xom for the whole time). but the strategy that is advised on the internet forums for CK is to reject Xom and drop the chaos brand weapon for "something better" which makes the whole of CK seem like dead code to begin with, unless we do something about it and provide the option to play as a ranged chaos knight, which I can assure you is a hell lot of more fun than melee CK. Also I 19:29:50 don't see gnoll in the list, which is the only race I play with :) 19:30:23 !lg MarvinPA --ck 19:30:24 173. MarvinPA the Middleweight Champion (L27 GhCK of Xom), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-08-16 14:46:31, with 1800376 points after 62199 turns and 5:02:40. 19:30:52 2016 might explain the lack of a gnoll win 20:01:00 Hyena: it seems like you're trying to make the case for a ranged CK start, but based around your understanding of player consensus of the "optimal" way to win a CK. 20:03:10 The "optimal" (and I put it in scare quotes for a reason) consensus is usually best ignored for design, unless the optimal is drifting into nobrainer territory. 20:03:50 Abandoning Xom and foregoing the early chaos weapon aren't nobrainers, they impose a cost on the character. 20:04:28 However, if your goal is to maximize %wins they're the best move. That isn't the only point of view to approach crawl from, however. 20:14:29 To make a design case for a ranged CK start (independent of implementation details) you'd need to 1) make the case that CK as a background isn't meeting its design goal, and 2) adding a ranged option to the background would address that problem. 20:14:56 And 3) adding a ranged option would not be unbalanced. 20:15:46 Before you try: I'll say this, ranged chaos weapons are fun because they are *very strong*, providing them on D:1 with character selection would be way too strong a start. 20:16:56 yeah, CK is clearly meant specifically to be a special challenge class 20:17:09 well at least that's how it exists now 20:17:35 I'm sure back when CK was created and allowed you choice of chaotic god, flavor considerations where the main aspect 20:17:40 but that's not how we'd think about the class now 22:57:35 ebering: a couple days ago you asked me if I wouldn't mind fixing '+' not working as a pagedown key and submitting that fix along with my "alias last unequipped item" PR 22:57:59 how do we feel about making '+' work but leaving '-' completely broken? 22:58:23 because fixing + really is just adding the missing CASE '+': 22:58:50 but I realized immediately afterwards that - is special cased in wield, quiver, drop and pickup 22:59:46 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 22:59:46 is it worth submitting a patch that fixes one but not the other? I'm sure I can do both, it's just not quite as instant 22:59:52 fixing both would be better if you can do it 23:00:04 I'm about to step out, so I can't look closely at the relevant code at the moment 23:00:10 OK, I think I'll go ahead and do that as a separate PR then 23:00:15 thanks! 23:00:50 no problem! I am... learning a lot about menus 23:00:54 crawl's are really something 23:17:10 -!- collin38 is now known as rofl