00:00:26 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c (34)
00:52:25 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/914 (51 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-22-g51ed125: 3 new zealots 10(11 months ago, 8 files, 93+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/51ed1258f7b9
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-23-g121ecc7: a bunch more backgrounds 10(11 months ago, 10 files, 347+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/121ecc7e9ea0
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-24-g29d30f9: crystal dwarf 10(11 months ago, 9 files, 75+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29d30f931a3b
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-25-gf096d5d: grue 10(11 months ago, 7 files, 67+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f096d5da5218
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-26-gba4c507: angels 10(11 months ago, 9 files, 74+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ba4c5070cef4
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-27-g892d0e8: chaoskin 10(11 months ago, 10 files, 85+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/892d0e86ef22
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-28-g0c32e75: fungoid 10(10 months ago, 11 files, 110+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0c32e7563b8c
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-29-g011bb8f: leprechaun 10(10 months ago, 7 files, 70+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/011bb8fd6d13
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-30-g6e53afb: flan 10(10 months ago, 11 files, 102+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e53afb8607c
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> 03hellmonk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/914 * 0.22-a0-31-g9062a36: profound elf 10(10 months ago, 7 files, 77+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9062a36167e2
00:52:28 <Cheibriados> ... and 41 more commits
01:14:59 <ebering> footv seems to be down
01:27:30 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c (34)
01:58:54 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c
02:58:49 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c
03:00:09 -!- Raimondii is now known as Raimondi
06:16:32 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.23-a0-485-gf9e11c5: Fix and update a scroll loot item definition 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 12+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f9e11c5b9d28
06:16:32 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.23-a0-486-gb50937e: Some loot definitions for auxiliary armour 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b50937ea4716
07:10:39 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-486-gb50937ea47 (34)
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-487-g569a142: Labyrinth portal redesign: description and remove old code 10(4 weeks ago, 27 files, 47+ 1412-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/569a14243036
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-488-g8cc2c2b: Lab arena subvault monster sets 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 268+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8cc2c2b31ddc
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-489-g3b657bf: Lab arena subvault Lua 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 114+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3b657bfc3211
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-490-gf1a7687: Lab arena subvaults 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 263+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f1a768788555
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-491-g28b37ac: Lab arena exit subvault loot function 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28b37acc0a5e
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-492-geb65351: Lab arena exit subvaults 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 250+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb65351c9ccd
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-493-g276f201: Lab arena main map setup Lua 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 50+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/276f20119d4f
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-494-gded574c: A Lab arena main map 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 97+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ded574cdc76e
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-495-g8f303c0: A lab arena map with two long paths 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 85+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8f303c0f4e89
07:10:51 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[labrework] * 0.23-a0-496-g1ce03ef: A lab arena map with a long way and a short way 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 71+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1ce03ef41ce9
08:16:23 <travis-ci> The build was broken. (labrework - 1ce03ef #10655 : gammafunk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/461749076
09:23:52 <ebering> who has access to footv? is that just snark? its refusing connections
09:36:44 <ebering> Gretell
09:46:13 <ebering> !tell gammafunk do you plan on force-pushing to that lab branch much more? I've got some more concrete ideas for layouts
09:46:14 <Sequell> ebering: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
09:47:41 <ebering> !tell gammafunk it looks like, from your commits, that you're committed to 100% perfect information for the player on this project. I think that it could be workable with partial information, I'll show you what I've got later today if it pans out
09:47:42 <Sequell> ebering: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
12:05:52 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-486-gb50937e (34)
12:58:06 <floraline> i'm seeing a lot of 'purging stale lock' in webtiles log, is that normal?
12:58:12 <floraline> this is a sign that somebody lost connection, right?
13:01:31 <ebering> yes
13:10:06 <floraline> why does the tutorial text have to be dark purple on a black background
13:17:06 <floraline> that's not enough contrast for text that is very important to read
13:20:01 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
16:17:54 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/915 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/915
16:17:54 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/915 * 0.23-a0-487-geb66c86: Don't grant explore piety for certain terrain 10(35 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb66c86496b9
16:17:54 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/915 * 0.23-a0-488-g76d5149: Describe the restrictions on exploration piety 10(16 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/76d5149105d1
16:48:59 <ebering> As I say in the PR I'm not totally happy with how I communicate the piety change suggested in #915
16:49:12 <ebering> so I'm open to suggestions
16:50:23 <switch__> is it possible this significantly affects regular piety gain?
16:51:03 <ebering> what do you mean?
16:51:40 <switch__> there are currently deep water and lava tiles visible in regular vaults that the player encounters during typical gameplay
16:52:06 <switch__> does removing those tiles from the pool of tiles the player gets XP from potentially noticably affect XP gain from normal play?
16:53:26 <switch__> wait
16:53:35 <switch__> exploration peity is from vision, not from stepping on the tiles, right?
16:53:47 <ebering> Yes
16:54:03 <switch__> okay, just making sure my question wasn't *too* stupid
16:54:17 <gammafunk> ebering: did you not modify the religion screen's description of what exploration gods appreciate?
16:54:40 <Pinkbeast> I find scoresd.py chokes every now and then for no obvious reason - is it just me?
16:54:42 <gammafunk> that's probably the single most important thing a player might read (not that they necessarilly would)
16:55:06 <ebering> gammafunk: I believe I did, in the modification of god-conduct.cc;s description snippets
16:55:06 <gammafunk> oh ok may have missed
16:55:07 <ebering> I just don't like what I wrote there
16:55:19 <gammafunk> ah yeah
16:55:38 <gammafunk> you probably need more specific (and a bit less flavorful) language
16:55:51 <gammafunk> but yeah it's a challenge even if you make language more precise
16:56:20 <gammafunk> to be honest, I'm not sure how critical communication actualy is, since most players probably just make some vague assumptions about exploration piety
16:56:56 <ebering> yeah, when I've discussed this before it seems to be a coinflip on whether players assume you do or don't get piety for it in the first place
16:58:03 <switch__> the overall effect is a piety nerf
16:58:25 <switch__> i dunno if the pathological gameplay aspect is even really that much of a concern
16:58:29 <switch__> unless it is
16:58:42 <ebering> switch__: that kind of pathalogical gameplay aspect is what we do here
16:59:14 <ebering> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MGNS39D0B0
17:00:25 <gammafunk> this talk doesn't show any of my characters like amalloy's did
17:00:25 <gammafunk> hence I'm not sure we can trust its conclusions
17:00:29 <switch__> sure, but that's not the end goal of a game developer, is it? i thought the end goal was to make a fun game
17:00:42 <switch__> if the balance changes make the game worse for the average player, that should be taken into account
17:01:01 <ebering> switch__: I don't see how nerfing the player makes the game worse
17:01:28 <switch__> well, in this particular case, if the piety nerf is substantial, it could affect the way those gods are played
17:01:31 <switch__> i don't know if it is
17:02:02 <gammafunk> I don't think posing every possible hypothetical and saying "but I don't know if this is true" is really the way to reason about game dev changes
17:02:02 <ebering> switch__: it really isn't
17:02:23 <ebering> (I mean, a significant piety nerf)
17:02:28 <switch__> it's not every possible hypothetical, it's literally the one thing that's changing
17:02:35 <switch__> oh, well okay then. if it isn't, then no problem
17:02:44 <switch__> but are you sure about that?
17:02:46 <amalloy> switch__: have you watched the talk? if there are unfun ways to play that are optimal, it makes it less fun whether you take the optimal plays or not
17:03:00 <switch__> i don't think *most* people that play and enjoy this game care about optimal gameplay
17:03:32 <gammafunk> I don't undertand this "I don't know about this, but do you? me neither" approach to game changes
17:03:52 <gammafunk> ebering: I was thinking maybe something about habitable squares, but that has its own problems
17:04:03 <gammafunk> it would help solve the language issue a bit
17:04:15 <switch__> if you're making the changes, you should know the effects of those changes. i'm just criticizing them, i'm not the one that made them, it's not for me to be able to pull out the data
17:04:20 <gammafunk> but things like forms exist and having different piety for different species is a bit odd
17:04:36 <gammafunk> this is more or less the problem with exploration piety in general; it's not different from piety on kills in a very interesting way
17:05:15 <switch__> it's essentially passive piety gain from playing the game normally, like piety from kills, definitely
17:05:22 <gammafunk> so one approach is to allow it to be a bit different if that makes the concept a little more clear
17:05:57 <gammafunk> I think overall though it's ok if the wording is a bit vague and you make a best effort to provide some communication
17:06:32 <gammafunk> and we disincentivize making players try to explore over lava/deep water vaults and the like
17:07:56 <switch__> one thing worth considering is that new players will do things that older players won't. for example, i used to explore the temple in full every time, even if i started berserker and had no reason to
17:08:07 <switch__> new players might explore more squares than experienced players
17:08:21 <amalloy> switch__: i think if you're criticising a commit it helps to have a specific problem in mind, even if you don't have data to back ti up. "this results in less piety" is surely a thing ebering already knew and intended, either because the piety reduction is good or because it's not significant enough to matter
17:08:22 <switch__> resulting in a higher-than-average piety from exploration for newer players, whether they're aware of that or not
17:08:48 <switch__> amalloy, is it?
17:08:53 <switch__> if it is then okay
17:09:15 <amalloy> i mean, when you make a commit that says "stop giving piety for X", you know that will result in less piety being given out
17:09:32 <switch__> ... but do you know how much less? if it will matter?
17:09:51 <ebering> switch__: yes, we have objstat runs and gammafunk added dungeon features to objectstat
17:10:28 <switch__> i have no idea what that means, but i'm going to assume it's "yes, we know what this will do and we're okay with it", in which case disregard my concerns
17:10:34 <gammafunk> again, you don't even have anything specific to criticize here, you're just posing random hypotheticals
17:10:38 <gammafunk> which is not helpful
17:10:42 <advil> ebering: "exploraation piety"
17:11:01 <advil> in a docstring
17:11:06 <ebering> advil: something has gotten into my laptop keyboard under the scissor switch for the a key
17:11:19 <ebering> thanks for the eyes :)
17:11:30 <advil> do you have a 2017-18 macbook pro? that is a thing on those - my g key has been doing that
17:11:40 <ebering> I do indeed
17:11:45 <gammafunk> that's exactly why my messages accidentally went into #townhall
17:11:56 <advil> it's super annoying
17:12:09 <ebering> maybe we'll get some sweet cheques from a class-action consumer protection suit
17:12:13 <advil> at first the g key stopped working for a while but then I did some internet fixes and now it just occasionally doubles
17:12:21 <switch__> it's not random, the specific criticism is that this change might negatively affect the power of these gods for average players, due to the passive piety gain from normal play being reduced as a consequence of this change. if that's been considered then that's that
17:13:37 <gammafunk> it was pretty random, you didn't really have any data or reasoning to show that the change was substantial. seemed like more of a knee-jerk reaction than anything
17:14:23 <gammafunk> anyhow, I'm going to try to write up the current issues with the lab redesign in terms of big things that might need to change
17:14:49 <gammafunk> and I will post that here and maybe ask MarvinPA some specific questions about bad-things-I-shouldn't-do
17:15:10 <gammafunk> but assuming no negative reactions on either front, I'll try to merge that portal within the week so we have some time to play-test
17:15:30 <gammafunk> big issues are allowing teleport and the name of the portal (seems like it should get a rename to me)
17:18:31 <gammafunk> there is also the traps branch, which has been getting some more play-testing recently
17:18:33 <ebering> I'm desparately vaultsmithing to save the name over here :P
17:18:39 <gammafunk> haha
17:18:58 <gammafunk> one thing I didn't tell you about ebering was a flavor idea I took from regret-index
17:19:05 <gammafunk> if we call it something like "Arena"
17:19:12 <gammafunk> you can have neutral "spectator" monsters
17:19:16 <gammafunk> cheering from the sidelines
17:19:19 <gammafunk> with flavor speech and whatnot
17:19:37 <switch__> that sounds dope
17:19:40 <gammafunk> would take a bit of work to make it happen but there's lots of room for other kinds of flavor
17:20:03 <ebering> The stone giant says "FATALITY"
17:28:17 <Cheibriados> 03Nikolai Lavsky02 {ebering} 07* 0.23-a0-487-gc625362: Fix messaging when Maurice steals a weapon (Salmon, Stenella) 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 91+ 98-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c6253629db3f
18:10:37 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-487-gc6253629db (34)
18:21:43 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-487-gc6253629db (34)
19:04:17 -!- werekitten is now known as isha
19:28:03 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-488-g5fd82c5: unbrace and don't unbrace deleted files 10(47 seconds ago, 2 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5fd82c5b89cc
19:29:47 <gammafunk> oh thank you
19:29:57 <gammafunk> that was pretty annoying how deleting a file would break pre-commit hooks
19:31:34 <gammafunk> *gasp*
19:31:44 <gammafunk> the robots are taking over
19:31:53 <floraline> there we go
19:31:58 <floraline> i got it to behave
19:32:09 <gammafunk> what prefix does it use? or does it not support any commands
19:32:26 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-488-g5fd82c5b89 (34)
19:32:28 <floraline> i set it to = like you said, but they should all be turned off right now
19:32:28 <gammafunk> the only command that people use is the rc one, I guess
19:32:37 <gammafunk> that's ok
19:32:41 <gammafunk> !cmd !cko
19:32:41 <Sequell> No command !cko
19:32:44 <gammafunk> er
19:33:02 <gammafunk> ah
19:33:05 <gammafunk> !cmd !ckorc
19:33:05 <Sequell> Command: !ckorc => .echo https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-$(replace trunk git ${2:-git})/$(!lm ${1:-.} cko x=name fmt:"${x[0]}" stub:"$(name_fixup $1)").rc
19:33:15 <gammafunk> I've already modified the &rc command to work for cko
19:33:35 <gammafunk> using the approach that bot-less servers have used
19:33:35 <gammafunk> &rc . trunk cko
19:33:40 <Sequell> https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-git/gammafunk.rc
19:33:46 <gammafunk> &versions
19:33:48 <floraline> oh i see, okay that's fine
19:33:51 <floraline> whichever way is preferable
19:34:09 <Sequell> CAO: 0.23-a0-486-gb50937e, CBRO: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c, CDO: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c, CKO: 0.23-a0-487-gc6253629db, CPO: 0.23-a0-487-gc625362, CUE: 0.23-a0-487-gc6253629db, CWZ: 0.23-a0-344-ge122d05, CXC: 0.23-a0-484-g29ba69c, LLD: 0.23-a0-483-g32a748b514
19:34:14 <gammafunk> yeah it's not really necessary to have those commands
19:34:24 <gammafunk> and I think |amethyst added CKO to CAO scoring some time yesterday
19:34:34 <floraline> i just figured i'd turn it all off until the other bot is shut off
19:34:35 <gammafunk> so I believe it's all set up
19:34:51 <gammafunk> oh, not sure if it's in postsequell yet, but that's pretty minor
19:35:05 <floraline> !cko
19:35:05 <Kelbell> DAS2 (L26 @ Depths:5, T:56920), EthnicCake (L22 @ Elf:1, T:65382), Rexfelis (L19 @ Swamp:1, T:47925), Bubsy666 (L16 @ Elf:1, T:31113), lunarplague (L12 @ Lair:4, T:15937), Kalere (L8 @ D:5, T:4539), myname (L8 @ D:6, T:5014), Vilvinran (L7 @ D:7, T:1790), Timbabwe (L6 @ D:4, T:4493), Mael (L3 @ D:1, T:1054), Vitna (L3 @ D:3, T:1281), LynnLen (L1 @ D:1, T:), Tyrellia (L @ , T:)
19:35:43 <gammafunk> oh, do other servers have those commands?
19:35:46 <gammafunk> !cmd cao
19:35:46 <Sequell> No command !cao
19:35:49 <gammafunk> hrm
19:35:49 <floraline> !cbro
19:35:54 <floraline> not sure
19:35:56 <floraline> i saw it in there
19:35:58 <gammafunk> oh I see, that's from the bot
19:36:02 <gammafunk> uh, what's cao
19:36:04 <gammafunk> ??bots
19:36:05 <Sequell> bots[1/3]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Lantell (CUE, $), Rotatell (CBRO, ^), Eksell (CXC, |), Jorgrell (CJR, =); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? & and others)
19:36:13 <gammafunk> =cjr
19:36:17 <floraline> !cjr
19:36:21 <gammafunk> maybe everyone has that turned off
19:36:27 <floraline> all of the commands in there has the prefix except for that one which has !
19:36:36 <floraline> i'll turn it off too then i suppose
19:36:37 <gammafunk> interesting
19:37:01 <gammafunk> what's neat about that is that it's not milestones....or actually is it
19:37:10 <gammafunk> it's whereis info, not sure how that's updated
19:37:12 <floraline> not sure what it's querying
19:37:13 <gammafunk> maybe that is milestone based
19:37:19 <gammafunk> I believe it's same info lobby uses
19:37:29 <gammafunk> there's a file that gets written too
19:37:33 <gammafunk> s/too/to/
19:38:12 <gammafunk> but yeah I don't think the other bots have this enabled and no one really knows about it
19:38:27 <floraline> i'm all for silent bots so everything that can turn off will be turned off
19:39:01 <floraline> all i really want is automatic crash reports so hopefully it does that
19:39:07 <floraline> it should print those and rebuilds in this channel and do nothing else
19:39:21 <gammafunk> I like the lobby layout you have going
19:39:26 <gammafunk> probably less confusing to new players
19:39:28 <floraline> haha thanks
19:39:40 <gammafunk> many get really confused about trunk vs stable with that huge pile of links most servers have
19:39:41 <floraline> yes at some point i started thinking about new players
19:39:49 <floraline> yep that's what i was thinking
19:40:02 <gammafunk> some of those changes might be good to go into the repo, the ones not cko-specific
19:40:09 <floraline> i would have taken off the trunk tutorial as well but i figured its useful for testing trunk changes
19:40:23 <floraline> what changes do you mean?
19:40:39 <gammafunk> previous versions in a ...what do you call that widget
19:40:40 <floraline> i've changed nothing besides the banner and the `separator` value on config.py dictionary
19:40:48 <gammafunk> "Click to see previous versions"
19:40:53 <floraline> that's a html element called <details>
19:41:00 <floraline> i just learned about it, it's very convenient
19:41:27 <floraline> i saw they were doing that expando-dropdown thing on the japanese server, but they were using javascript & i didn't want to use that
19:43:41 <floraline> i've been thinking about accessibility, it's very important that new players understand how to play right away
19:44:55 <floraline> maybe i'll take off the trunk tutorial anyway, if someone needs to test it they can do it locally
19:45:19 <gammafunk> yeah, there's always room for improvement in that regard
19:46:10 <gammafunk> floraline: it can also still actually be playable if someone just knows the link
19:46:15 <gammafunk> so you can simply not list it
19:46:31 <gammafunk> and anyone wanting to play that can just make the direct link
19:46:36 <floraline> i was wondering about that actually, i'm pretty sure the only way to not list it would be to not include it in the ordereddict in config.py
19:46:45 <floraline> but wouldn't that make it unplayable also?
19:46:53 <gammafunk> oh, maybe so
19:46:57 <gammafunk> there is still console, I guess
19:47:11 <gammafunk> but yeah I think if you disabled trunk tutorial online that's not the end of the world
19:47:26 <floraline> the benefit of clarity in there only being one button labeled Tutorial would be a big gain
19:53:23 <floraline> somebody is registering a ton of usernames right now
19:53:48 <gammafunk> uh oh
19:53:54 <floraline> great
19:56:01 <floraline> not sure what to do about that
19:57:10 <floraline> oh somebody posted it on reddit
19:57:45 <gammafunk> oh I assumed it was from one IP
19:57:49 <floraline> i guess some of these are legit then but there are still a lot of attempts for various dev names so i'm sure some other names are getting taken
19:58:01 <floraline> i'm just looking at webtiles log which doesn't show that
19:58:10 <floraline> idk how i would correlate that
19:58:30 <gammafunk> for dev accounts specifically?
19:58:40 <gammafunk> I sent an email to the private dev mailing list
19:58:52 <gammafunk> telling all devs about the new server and reminding them to register
19:59:00 <gammafunk> I think e.g. elliptic's registrations are by himself
19:59:10 <gammafunk> I assumed the others I saw some days ago were legitimate as well
19:59:17 <gammafunk> !lg devteam cko s=name
19:59:19 <Sequell> 3 games for devteam (cko): 3x ebering
19:59:28 <gammafunk> imposter spotted!
19:59:47 <floraline> i don't believe that one's an imposter
20:00:07 <floraline> we spoke in-game
20:00:07 <gammafunk> yes, I'm joking :)
20:00:07 <gammafunk> If you see that those accounts dev accounts were registered...
20:00:19 <gammafunk> about a week ago or a little after
20:00:30 <gammafunk> they're probably legitimate ones
20:00:40 <floraline> ok
20:00:43 <gammafunk> I noticed several dev registrations the day after I sent that email
20:01:00 <gammafunk> most reddit users wouldn't really know the names of dev accounts anyhow
20:01:39 <floraline> i'm just seeing a lot of failed attempts to get names that i know were already registered legitimately
20:01:48 <gammafunk> oh I see
20:01:55 <floraline> which suggests to me that some of these successful attempts are impostors
20:02:12 <gammafunk> that is certainly possible; this community has a lot of trolls these days
20:03:02 <floraline> i guess i'll just have to wait and see if anyone complains .. and then try to figure out if the plaintiff is actually the impostor
20:03:57 <gammafunk> well, for devs specifically, they obviously have a valid contact email
20:04:13 <floraline> yeah i'm not worried about devs so much, or anyone else easy to identify
20:04:36 <gammafunk> ah, yeah; we've historically been a sort of "wild west" in that regard
20:04:42 <gammafunk> already happened with minmay
20:05:01 <floraline> if some random user complains, i have no way of figuring out who really "owns" the name
20:05:26 <floraline> i'd have to ask every other server operator to find out the email that controls that name
20:05:32 <gammafunk> yes, historically I think we've just left that up to each server admin
20:05:41 <gammafunk> and that includes how much said admin wants to address the problem
20:06:07 <gammafunk> I'm not sure that any other admins go out of their way to resolve account name conflicts like that
20:06:15 <floraline> i understand why this is such a problem now
20:06:36 <floraline> it's a total pain and/or impossible to resolve conflicts
20:07:17 <gammafunk> we need google signon
20:08:19 <floraline> someone is clearly just mashing the registration form without entering anything
20:10:45 <floraline> what if we did something like battle.net, every user gets a 4 digit code that gives everyone extra uniqueness
20:10:45 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-488-g5fd82c5b89 (34)
20:10:46 <floraline> and they only show that code when it's important
20:18:08 <floraline> oh, i see who took minmay's name
20:18:20 <floraline> they tried to take yours too gammafunk shortly after you did
20:18:44 <floraline> i wonder if the other names at this time are stolen too
20:33:05 <advil> hm do you mean you see who as in you can identify it with another user on the server, or you can identify them more generally?
20:36:52 <floraline> no it's just a guess really, a couple of names registered in quick succession with no other activity nearby
20:37:38 <floraline> it's just the webtiles log which has no IPs or anything to identify such a user
20:38:42 <advil> ah ok
20:38:51 <advil> probably registrations should log ip
20:38:53 <floraline> the first name looks innocuous and then it's a couple of names i recognize and some i don't
20:38:59 <floraline> like someone got their own name then just tried others for fun
20:39:20 <floraline> yeah that would be good actually
20:39:23 <advil> "fun"
20:39:34 <floraline> well.. someone's idea of fun anyway
20:39:37 <advil> yeah
20:39:59 <advil> I guess I shouldn't let it depress me, I'm not actually surprised
20:40:06 <floraline> IP probably would not be reliable over larger spans of time but if someone's just punching in a bunch of names it would probably be useful
20:40:34 <ebering> could you pastebin the conjectural list of names, or possibly send it to one of us privately
20:41:01 <floraline> well again i'm just guessing, i don't want anyone to get in trouble over it
20:41:05 <floraline> there's no way to prove it for sure
20:41:10 <ebering> sure
20:42:18 <floraline> it's only a couple of names
20:42:36 <floraline> i'll send it to you privately
20:47:30 <gammafunk> floraline: hrm, are you sure there are no IPs in webtiles logs? I seem to recall those being shown in webtiles.log
20:47:55 <floraline> just a timestamp
20:48:46 <gammafunk> 2018-11-30 19:48:02,736 INFO: #0     Socket opened from ip ::1 (fd15, compression: on).
20:48:49 <gammafunk> 2018-11-30 19:48:02,743 WARN: #0     Wrong login token for user gammafunk.
20:48:58 <gammafunk> that's when the websocket is first opened, I believe
20:49:03 <Pinkbeast> floraline: Lemme try you. Do you find scoresd.py chokes now and then for no readily apparent reason?
20:49:22 <gammafunk> so while there may not be an IP along with the actual registration, you could trace it back to the websocket
20:49:31 <gammafunk> it may be hard to correlate that, I guess
20:49:31 <floraline> oh..... i'm grepping this file
20:49:37 <floraline> let me look again
20:50:07 <gammafunk> yeah, you should get IPs in there, they just might only be shown when the websocket to the lobby is first opened
20:50:30 <gammafunk> I don't know what that '#0' is, if it's a websocket number
20:50:44 <gammafunk> if it is, then you should be able to match any webtiles log action to the IP
20:51:01 <floraline> oh indeed, i see
20:51:03 <floraline> you're right
20:51:24 <gammafunk> yeah, second socket gets me #1
20:51:34 <gammafunk> so you should be able to track that, albeit it a bit awkwardly
20:57:30 <floraline> i was wrong, the IPs dont line up
20:57:39 <floraline> whoever took minmay's name only tried gammafunk and then quit
20:57:46 <floraline> the others in the log are probably legit
20:57:52 <floraline> good call though i didn't realize that you could track it that way
21:05:07 <floraline> LOL someone took a couple of names, then reset the password on their own account
21:05:52 <floraline> so their email must be the identity of the thief
21:06:19 <floraline> oh well.. i guess i shouldn't worry about it and just figure out what to do when people come forward
21:11:13 <floraline> Pinkbeast: sorry, i forgot to get back to you. i don't actually know what that is
21:50:48 <gammafunk> I think he's askig about the CAO scoring scripts?
21:50:59 <gammafunk> sadly few people have a lot of experience with that
21:54:56 <Pinkbeast> ... oh, hang on, most servers don't do their own scoreboards and cjr did but did it differently because cjr. Sorry, never mind.
22:00:19 <Henzell> BrainTurd (L2 MiFi) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:2)
22:23:32 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
22:46:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy