00:00:26 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-303-gfcac5de (34)
02:49:04 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-303-gfcac5de
03:12:18 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.23-a0-303-gfcac5de (34)
04:24:50 <bgiannan> Hi there. Do you guys have some acceptance tests ? Something that starts a game and interacts with it like a real user to test things out ?
06:49:34 <aidanh> bgiannan: I don't know if I'd refer to them as acceptance tests, but there are some tests of that nature, yes
09:06:16 <advil> well, and there's a limit to how much the tests interact like a "real user", there's no way to test most ui stuff like that
09:06:59 <advil> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master/crawl-ref/source/test
11:38:31 <hayenne> Is Abyss teleport considered a valid reason to block recalling the Heplia ancestor?
13:55:57 <Yermak> You know this bailey? I found a way to get this axe! No jokes!
13:55:58 <Yermak> https://imgur.com/a/dr5SF56
14:01:21 <gammafunk> Yermak: teleport?
14:02:05 <Yermak> no, it's no_tele_into, it's the first idea that comes to mind
14:07:30 <gammafunk> lucy doesn't move permarock, does she?
14:07:44 <Yermak> rightm she doesn't
14:11:56 <Yermak> The plan is really devious, you have to perform 12(!) consecutive instructions, some of them are really nontrivial.
14:12:13 <Yermak> Gonna make a tavern post.
14:14:16 <gammafunk> that's great
14:14:41 <Yermak> Hmm, would it be better to let people try to solve this riddle and give the answer some time later?
14:17:52 <gammafunk> Yermak: well, it'd be good if you made it available to devs so we can fix it!
14:17:57 <gammafunk> sounds like you found quite the bug
14:18:22 <Yermak> No, I really-really doubt someone is gonna follow my instructions.
14:19:00 <Yermak> Wait, actually, the axe that's outside bailey is easily accessible.
14:19:27 <Yermak> Well, not easily, but I can see people getting it.
14:19:45 <Yermak> Ok, gimme some time to make a post.
14:28:25 <ebering> does it involve teleport other on an ally followed by recall?
14:28:25 <ebering> oh, he's gone
14:32:02 <gammafunk> you think the ally is picking up the axe?
14:32:11 <gammafunk> I don't think they can do that at all now
14:36:42 <gammafunk> minmay mentioned xom swap
14:37:00 <Pinkbeast> Die on a kitty with astonishing good fortune?
14:37:24 <gammafunk> I think tele other and kitty death both check no_tele_into
14:37:56 <gammafunk> maybe xom spawns followed by swap
14:39:12 <Yermak> So, here is the pastebin with instructions: https://pastebin.com/F5m0WwTn
14:39:20 <Pinkbeast> Oh! That reminds me, zigsprint interacts badly with kitty death
14:39:55 <Yermak> The one that's outside bailey needs only Fedhas shenanigans.
14:41:49 <Yermak> The main idea is that when you return from Abyss after being banished over deep water (or lava, I guess), you're positioned into the closest walkable tile (or one of those if there are several).
14:43:01 <gammafunk> haha
14:43:51 <Yermak> The problem inside bailey is that empty arch of ancient stone. It's always closer than the axe spots. So you need Lugonu to get rid of it.
14:47:47 <gammafunk> yeah that's a great detail
14:48:05 <Yermak> This recipe is pretty viable for getting axes from the entry vault. Should I leak this into forum at all?
14:49:33 <Yermak> *until this is fixed
14:50:12 <gammafunk> I don't see a problem with posting it, since as you say it's just incredibly hard to exploit
14:50:18 <gammafunk> and the only reward is a nice weapon
14:51:09 <Yermak> Well, if you're already worshiping Fedhas all you need is disto weapon, source of flight and ability to survive in Abyss.
14:55:38 <gammafunk> Yermak: minmay and ebering point out that depending on order of cleanup of temporary terrain, you could possibly make lava/deep water with qaz or air miscasts, go to abyss, return
14:55:55 <gammafunk> if temporary terrain cleanup happens after location of player choice
14:56:05 <gammafunk> which would prevent need of a god switch
14:56:26 <gammafunk> but maybe the terrain is cleaned up before your return position in the bailey is determined
14:56:38 <gammafunk> if not though, air miscasts would prevent need for a god switch
14:57:16 <gammafunk> oh and yeah, you're saying that the entrance weapons are more easilly obtained
14:57:53 <gammafunk> it seems the fundamental big is just that you can find paths into these permarock wall areas at all
14:58:50 <gammafunk> to some extent the best fix is to remove permarock from use in vaults in this manner, either letting it be used only for level border or at least only when absolutely needed for special vault structure like zot:5
14:59:11 <gammafunk> and then don't try to have these decorative items like this
14:59:33 <ebering> yeah, just replace them with G's (possibly flavor texted and with cool tiles)
15:00:19 <gammafunk> minmay mentions that it seems temp terrain remains when you return from abyss
15:00:43 <gammafunk> which makes this a bit more achievable as you can use air miscasts
15:01:35 <gammafunk> it took me a minute of staring at "replace them with G's" to understand what you meant
15:01:52 <gammafunk> you'd think that would have been immediately apparent to someone who's made as many vaults as I have
15:04:11 <gammafunk> s/fundamental big/fundamental bug/
15:04:32 <Yermak> Qaz seems to fail in affecting the empty arch with temp terrain.
15:15:56 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/859 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/859
15:15:56 <Cheibriados> 03biasface02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/859 * 0.23-a0-304-g070aabe: Adjust minmay_gold_behind_fungi 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/070aabe61172
15:37:03 <Cheibriados> 03biasface02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/859 * 0.23-a0-305-g04a2054: More adjustments per gammafunk 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/04a205417ad6
15:37:46 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.23-a0-304-g26e74f2: Make the gold in a loot vault more accessible (biasface) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/26e74f26148d
16:10:42 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-304-g26e74f2614 (34)
18:17:11 <alexjurkiewicz> players can probably return to deep water with emergency flight now
18:21:44 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-304-g26e74f2614 (34)
18:48:06 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/754 * 0.23-a0-210-g40af94f: unbrace 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/40af94ff46c3
18:58:41 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/847 * 0.23-a0-144-g125d971: Upgrade orb run spawns 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/125d971e7f2b
19:03:58 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/848 * 0.23-a0-144-g9486a7f: Wake up the player if paralysed/petrified 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9486a7fb53f3
19:05:13 <alexjurkiewicz> these three PRs are ready for a re-review 👍
19:41:00 <gammafunk> alexjurkiewicz: thanks, we can probably get to those soon
19:41:00 <gammafunk> for the datafiles thing, we're still waiting for yaml on cbro I think
19:41:00 <gammafunk> ??yaml
19:41:00 <Sequell> yaml[1/1]: Servers with pyyaml installed as reported by admins: CAO, CXC, LLD, CPO, CJR, CUE, CDO
19:41:09 <alexjurkiewicz> johnstein: !!!
19:41:26 <gammafunk> alexjurkiewicz: also, in https://crawl.project357.org/ttyrec/YTcomUltraviolent4/ the files at the top are listed without .xz at the end
19:41:37 <gammafunk> but those files exist only in that form
19:41:49 <gammafunk> the urls from the listing don't work, but they do if I add .xz
19:41:53 <alexjurkiewicz> cache invalidation strikes again
19:42:02 <gammafunk> furthermore the script seems to repeat output multiple times?
19:42:13 <alexjurkiewicz> the ttyrec listing is cached for a day, since I generate it dynamically by querying the S3 API
19:42:34 <gammafunk> hrm, ok
19:42:40 <alexjurkiewicz> if you mean files are listed both locally and remote, that's because I disabled the local ttyrec deletion until I'm sure things are working post-migration
19:42:54 <gammafunk> well I just mean the files listed at the top specifically
19:43:26 <alexjurkiewicz> oh the entire document is repeated
19:43:29 <gammafunk> yes
19:43:32 <alexjurkiewicz> that's probably a bug :)
19:44:02 <gammafunk> and in some instances it's listed under remote with the correct suffix, but maybe that's the non-deletion you're referring to
19:44:09 <gammafunk> but those listings don't seem to all agree with each other
19:44:34 <gammafunk> that filename occurs 4 times, but it's not listed the same way each time
19:44:38 <alexjurkiewicz> it seems like after the cache data gets a day old, a new run just appends to it without wiping the old data
19:44:47 <gammafunk> right
19:45:02 <gammafunk> that's possibly going to confuse sequell
19:45:19 <gammafunk> anyhow footv is loading the wrong ttyrecs from cpo right now
19:45:35 <gammafunk> but I found the file I need at least
19:45:46 <alexjurkiewicz> fixed that bug just now, and deleted all dir list cache entries
19:46:17 <alexjurkiewicz> I think there's still a race condition if multiple people request a ttyrec at the same time
19:46:17 <alexjurkiewicz> *request the same uncached listing
19:46:31 <alexjurkiewicz> anyway,that example account looks right now
19:46:40 <gammafunk> yeah looks better, thanks
19:46:59 <gammafunk> !lm uv4 csdc br.end=zot -ttyrec
19:47:00 <Sequell> 1. YTcomUltraviolent4, XL23 HuWn, T:38655 (milestone): http://dcss-cpo-ttyrecs.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/YTcomUltraviolent4/2018-10-04.16:18:26.ttyrec.xz
19:47:08 <alexjurkiewicz> the other bugs I probably won't solve anytime soon, because that listing is a shell script CGI file and doing it properly would be much more involved
19:47:35 <gammafunk> hrm, the wrong file still
19:47:43 <gammafunk> maybe footv has a cache or something
19:47:46 <alexjurkiewicz> probably a local database of the s3 contents which gets updated every time I push files there
19:48:17 <alexjurkiewicz> speaking of other PRs, I have an older PR for an abyss rebalance. Interested in any thoughts on that one
19:49:13 <gammafunk> I didn't like the premise that abyss needs to have the same difficulty at all points of the game, this is something that elliptic also disagreed with
19:49:31 <gammafunk> wrt making later abyssing a bit harder, ebering's change was one way to somewhat address that
19:49:53 <alexjurkiewicz> hm which change was that? I haven't been keeping up the past few days
19:49:58 <gammafunk> this was in 0.22
19:50:07 <gammafunk> the abyss pulling you deeper upon shift (based on a chance)
19:50:11 <alexjurkiewicz> ah yes
19:51:10 <gammafunk> but I think the idea of making abyss easier earlier on is probably not the best one; it makes the effect distinctive compared to other nasty hexes that basicall present the same difficulty throughout the game
19:51:18 <Cheibriados> Typo in Sif description 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11703 by damerell
19:51:45 <gammafunk> it meaning the fact that early on the banishment is scarier
19:52:41 <gammafunk> especially given how it's pretty hard to get banished early, so it's nice as a kind of "holy crap!" effect
19:53:22 <gammafunk> the abyss is always in a weird place due to the different things it's doing, like having a starting area, being a special sort of player death prison, and being a rune branch as well
19:54:52 <gammafunk> what I've just said is fairly general, if there's to be some kind of larger rework I think it should really identify the biggest problems the abyss/banishment actually has
19:55:28 <gammafunk> like the fact that banishment via spell  happens from edge of los is one potential fixable thing, I suppose another might be its difficulty (still) later on
19:55:52 <gammafunk> but it's already a dangerous third rune and you do get pulled pretty deep these days when you get banished
19:57:31 <gammafunk> and some of your PR does make later abyss a bit harder but it's not really clear to me that the abyss fundamnetally lacks in danger
19:58:02 <gammafunk> you can get mutated a lot even if you escape, and you can end up using some important consumables, you can end up even on abyss:5 pretty easilly
20:00:30 <gammafunk> other than elliptic disapproving of the idea of making early banish easier to deal with, and my general concern that the abyss lacks any fundamental problem with difficulty that requires a lot of rebalancing, I'm not sure what other devs think there
20:01:37 <gammafunk> eventually if we buff the late abyss we'll make it sort of like getting cast into a hell branch or a zig
20:01:51 <gammafunk> *buff late abyss enough
20:03:50 <gammafunk> seems like right for late-game players it's going for a modest threat that might tax the player's consumables and occassionally seriously threaten them
20:44:34 <ebering> To the extent that I think the abyss' danger level needs to be targeted at player level its that it needs to be tougher for endgame players while also having less of the aimless wandering on A:1
20:44:54 <ebering> which, over the longer view it definitely has moved in that direction
20:45:06 <ebering> but I think that A:1 is in a good place for an early banishment
20:57:23 -!- Tiobot is now known as Guest84612
21:56:44 <advil> johnstein: fyi something is wrong with console spectating on cbro, when you hit w it disconnects you
21:57:47 <advil> johnstein: in fact, hitting w from any menu disconnects you?
21:58:22 <advil> ok, not the Advanced menu
21:58:41 <advil> but the version-specific menus too, for some reason
21:59:50 <advil> oh, that's just because w is supposed to work from the version-specific menus too, even if they don't show it
22:00:23 <advil> seems server-specific, or at least, everything is fine on cao
22:18:13 <alexjurkiewicz> gammafunk: thanks for the abyss feedback
22:35:10 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.23-a0-305-g7ffd15e: Replace permanent teleport traps with zot traps in a maze (Engine) 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ffd15e76701
23:08:07 <johnstein> advil: probably the stupid shared memory issue thing... again. sometimes I can fix it. sometimes I can’t
23:10:47 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-305-g7ffd15e767 (34)
23:13:59 <advil> ebering: stupid csdc question, there's no constraint that you have to play all weeks is there?
23:14:10 <ebering> no
23:14:20 <ebering> but you do have to sign up in week 1
23:14:22 <advil> ah
23:14:33 <advil> ok that was what I was wondering really
23:14:39 <advil> can I sign up and not play?
23:14:59 <advil> (is there a reason for that constraint?)
23:15:34 <advil> sign up and not play this week that is
23:16:12 <ebering> yes you can sign up and not play
23:16:22 <advil> ok thanks
23:16:24 <ebering> and as for the reason for requiring people to sign up in the first week
23:16:40 <ebering> it's mostly a symbolic act to try to get commitment out of the players
23:19:10 <advil> I was thinking more of people who might not even realize it's going on until after week 1 (which was almost me), or who can't play any time soon (like me) but might be able to in 4 weeks or whatever
23:24:01 <alexjurkiewicz> how manual is csdc? Are you generating the characters and challenges by hand?
23:33:26 <ebering> in principle characters could be generated automatically
23:33:30 <ebering> but I pre-rolled the lot and picked challenges
23:33:41 <ebering> since I wanted a uniform representative dist of chars
23:33:55 <ebering> and didn't want random clumping to give me a bunch of power melee combos
23:34:11 <ebering> the challenges are picked to be a mix of synergistic and anti synergistc ones with the char/god rolls
23:34:14 <alexjurkiewicz> !tell gammafunk johnstein reports python-yaml available on cbro
23:34:14 <Sequell> alexjurkiewicz: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
23:34:16 <ebering> this week was synergistic
23:34:40 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah. I was thinking about running csdc forever as "daily challenge"
23:36:23 <alexjurkiewicz> maybe after this season completes we can chat about it?
23:36:43 <ebering> sure
23:36:54 <ebering> I remember someone ran like a 'casual league' on tavern
23:37:15 <ebering> imo having a definite endpoint with a winner crowned is preferable to a continuous thing
23:43:02 <ebering> advil: hm I should post a reminder that sign-ups will close and you'd better get on it
23:52:54 <johnstein> !tell gammafunk python-yaml is on the host. sounds like that's where I need it, rather than on the chroot, right?
23:52:54 <Sequell> johnstein: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
23:58:28 <johnstein> advil: I did the ipcs -m and ipcrm -M 0xXXXXX fix that |amethyst told me about years ago, but like last time I tried it, it doesn't fix 'watching' like it used to. I don't know what to try next since I don't understand how that shared memory stuff works
23:59:50 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-305-g7ffd15e (34)