00:14:22 alexjurkiewicz: also, https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11688 looks like it might be a CPO-specific bug, but I can't log on to test it 00:51:32 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-184-g0ca621a: Add background to scrollbars 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ca621aceeec 00:51:32 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-185-g2f00525: Fix crash when reducing popup width 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2f00525d27f7 00:51:32 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-186-g3217af6: Fix rare text widget rendering glitch 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3217af623f1c 00:51:32 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-187-g904d0f5: Unparent container widgets' children before destruction 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/904d0f54cc1e 00:51:32 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-188-ge70c5d8: Const-ify some member functions 10(30 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e70c5d850871 00:51:32 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-189-gc87c613: Improve monster description quote display 10(11 minutes ago, 4 files, 149+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c87c613cd2ed 01:10:45 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-189-gc87c613cd2 (34) 02:52:43 Wall jump behaves inconsistently with effects that restrict movement 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11690 by CanOfWorms 02:54:18 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-189-gc87c613 03:16:55 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.23-a0-189-gc87c613 (34) 03:40:10 Prevent spectators with hidden chat from counting in total. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11691 by collin38 03:59:55 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-190-gdcd3064: Don't include hidden spectators in count (#11691, collin38) 10(71 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dcd3064b9151 04:10:42 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-190-gdcd3064b91 (34) 05:35:02 aidanh: yes i migrated cpo to a new server 05:48:32 alexjurkiewicz: any idea why login would fail? I'm reasonably sure that the password is correct, of course 05:54:39 the australians are hacking us 05:55:00 my login seems to still work 05:59:33 oh, seems long passwords have been truncated 08:47:33 !seen buppy 08:47:33 I last saw buppy at Fri Jul 13 04:44:03 2018 UTC (10w 2d 8h 3m 30s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 09:13:13 gammafunk not sure if you've been communicating with pubby directly (maybe that would explain the "numerous attempts at contact", but https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/9i6gh6/disappointed_with_the_devs/ 09:15:14 is mantis working ok for other people right now? I can't seem to get the advanced filters box to show up 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-191-gc5a9599: Switch from LuaDoc to LDoc 10(3 months ago, 5 files, 55+ 769-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c5a959909e80 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-192-ga2dadd3: De-Doxygen-ify 10(3 months ago, 18 files, 2+ 92-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a2dadd3380d1 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-193-g96814a8: Switch over and expand old luadoc 10(3 months ago, 2 files, 432+ 146-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/96814a83a95f 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-194-g49b57b5: Document dlua additions to the crawl module 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 49+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/49b57b546c54 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-195-ga34892a: Stubs for dlua only modules. 10(3 months ago, 21 files, 57+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a34892ab5407 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-196-g7bc873d: Document the rest of clua in ldoc 10(3 months ago, 16 files, 1676+ 106-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7bc873d401b2 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-197-g039bf95: Sort lua api table of contents. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/039bf959b959 09:18:25 03ebering02 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-198-gaba95fd: Clean up internal comments (aidanh) 10(10 weeks ago, 13 files, 14+ 56-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aba95fd1dfbe 09:18:59 advil: yeah, I've not really had any communication with pubby aside from in the dev channel 09:19:44 hmm, I wonder if it would be possible to get travis to generate the lua docs & upload them to a github page 09:21:13 I'm not sure why he's expecting the result to just be a simple yes/no or is setting an aggressive timeframe, he should know that species/gods/big features take a long time to go through 09:21:34 yes, I replied but I didn't even want to get into that 09:22:01 btw, am I hallucinating that you had committed a version of my contribution guide to the main repo? 09:22:12 or updated one of the docs with its content? 09:22:19 I have a local version with edits but I never finished, I really need to finish that 09:22:23 ahh 09:22:42 maybe I can finish editing that up today or at least by tomorrow 09:22:45 I guess we discussed it and it's just the commit part that I hallucinated 09:23:04 yeah, you weren't going crazy; I definitely based it off your document 09:23:52 it's kind of useful to link to in these situations. It might be worth adding explicitly that major contributions usually do get looked at in sync with versioning 09:25:27 right 09:26:36 I mean it's true that 100 days or whatever is not a fast response (even though there was a response in this channel), I guess in the future we may want to explicitly put a brief comment on PRs that we just aren't going to deal with right away, even if there was also a ##crawl-dev discussion 09:31:07 yeah, it's not a bad idea to do that 09:36:32 gammafunk what was the state of things w.r.t. getting py2.7 + yaml installed on the servers? 09:36:48 pyyaml that is 09:37:07 I think we found that python2.7 was available on all servers...let me check cdo again 09:37:19 yeah, CDO has 2.7 09:37:32 is there any standard practice for committing slightly modified versions of third-party code? 09:37:51 so all should be able to use yaml if 2.7 is the oldest we can support 09:38:04 but of course all need to have yaml installed 09:38:32 ok...I wonder if I should use the `prebuilt` directory for this as a backup 09:38:33 so we just need to notify all admins about this 09:38:41 aidanh depends on the licensing? 09:38:49 and the complexity 09:39:00 what's the third party code? 09:39:13 oh, as in have a yaml module in prebuilt to use as a fallback? 09:39:13 advil: mit in this case; it's the simplebar lib that had the gpl issue 09:39:41 ah, are you going to add a non-minimized version? 09:40:28 I think you just want to add something to LICENSE (which we should have done already), look for the lines beginning with "Certain pieces come with different licenses, all compatible with the GPL." 09:40:39 ideally that would still be in a contrib folder 09:41:04 but I tried to get a contrib folder to work there and there some insane / incomprehensible tornado issues preventing it 09:41:14 *there are 09:41:21 at least as far as I could tell 09:42:14 but if it's in a contrib folder that will simplify packaging issues among other things (checkwhite) 09:44:16 gammafunk I was thinking have some prebuilt header files there, for servers that don't have pyyaml right away 09:44:36 oh, I see 09:44:58 which is a bit silly, but we already do it for the level compiler 09:45:13 I'm also thinking about your deb building issues 09:45:50 though pyyaml seems to often be installed already, so maybe if the python version in the chroot is ok, there won't be an issue with this change 09:46:22 hrm, if there's a debian package for pyyaml in debian stable 09:46:41 then then yeah the deb building solution is to just install that 09:46:59 do we require a specific version of yaml? 09:47:21 I don't think so, but I think that's one of those packages that's in a long term maintenance state? 09:47:36 aidanh re simplebar, I would be explicit on the licensing for all its deps too, there are only like 4 and they are all MIT licensed (I checked) 09:47:47 none of them seemed to have any subdependencies 09:48:46 oh alexjurkiewicz already did something for the debian build 09:48:58 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721/commits/cff353328e55fd69417f3c2c99febcc2383103ee 09:51:29 advil: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/python-yaml looks like current debian stable has it, so I think we'll be ok there 09:52:02 or I'll be fine there, in terms of building debian packages 09:54:09 I don't actually know much about how all of these debian things work, and just pieced together what I could for building the package based on various guides for doing so 09:54:41 ok, that at least is easy to do something about if it fails 09:55:33 I'm still nervous about the servers; adding something to prebuilt is probably a good practical solution, but it doesn't really help towards the goal of making sure all servers can build this part of crawl 09:56:18 right, sounds like we still want to contact each admin and hear back from them (eventually) as to getting the module installed? 09:56:38 yeah...did you already talk to some admins? I have a vague memory that you might have 09:56:55 yes, some have already done...but I'd have to check which for sure 09:56:56 I know I asked johnstein about cbro, and you looked at the servers you have direct access to 09:57:18 and presumably alexjurkiewicz already checked cpo 09:57:47 hong is probably the hardest to reach, but he also only manually merges trunk periodically due to having local patches to apply 09:58:23 I won't be able to do more crawl stuff until later in the evening, but I can go ahead and contact people then 09:59:09 I sometimes wonder if we should have an actual mailing list for server admins 09:59:32 it would be nice, yeah 09:59:44 we sort of used crd for that in the past 09:59:48 ah 10:10:43 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-198-gaba95fd1df (34) 10:17:03 what on earth is http://crawlj.osdn.jp/down_e.html 10:17:21 was that patch part of what led to the dcss tiles implementation? or just something else? 10:17:39 isometric crawl?? http://www.geocities.jp/ita_iluvatar/cr/ice.png 10:17:43 there's a dungeon crawl 3d!? 10:19:40 I really have no idea 10:19:44 that site has a binary though 10:19:57 it seems to be a patch for 4.00b26 10:21:06 also, someone on reddit pointed out that http://dungeoncrawl.org/ is not working; the ftp site is still up but I guess we may want to archive it in case it goes down too 10:23:51 qq: is https://loom.shalott.org/api/sequell/game down? I'm getting a 503 10:24:19 collin38: I seem to remember seeing an isometric 3d screenshot somewhere on tavern 10:24:39 now we need a first person crawl 10:25:05 advil: thanks for the advice; I was planning to commit a pre-built but unminified version 10:25:33 aidanh yeah that sounds good to me 10:25:41 (that screenshot I linked is isometric) 10:26:29 apart from whitespace tweaks, there are some minor changes that are required for the webtiles UI to work as intended 10:26:47 I was concerned about whether/where they should be documented 10:27:57 aidanh I guess you could commit the changes separately to the unminified version? 10:28:44 one extreme would be to create a new submodule, but that seems maybe like overkill for this case 10:29:58 collin38 not sure about the sequell api but other stuff on shallot is still working; I guess you may want to ask greensnark 10:31:17 ah, this was the tavern thread: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?t=18808 10:33:40 I did consider that, but I'd prefer not to create buggy intermediary commits; it might be the simplest way though 10:37:23 I think for something like this, the history tracing how it is a derivative work and of what is more important 10:37:50 it's not as if we have a shortage of buggy intermediary commits 12:37:52 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-199-g1502417: Update simplebar.js to 3.0.0-beta5 10(28 minutes ago, 3 files, 3119+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1502417413e9 12:37:52 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-200-g45387a9: Fix webtiles scrollbar visibility and zoom issues 10(25 minutes ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45387a99ae0a 12:37:52 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-201-gb82a549: Fix some webtiles scrollbar update lag 10(24 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b82a549ae1da 12:37:52 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-202-g4d241d0: Add background to webtiles scrollbars 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d241d03a5b1 12:52:19 aidanh: maybe add a list of the included packages to the header comment in simplebar.js too? Though I realize that's probably an autogenerated comment. Otherwise, looks good 12:57:08 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-203-g14233b2: Add list of embedded packages to simplebar.js (advil) 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/14233b2029ad 12:57:19 good thinking; thanks for the suggestions 13:10:43 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-203-g14233b2029 (34) 13:14:23 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.23-a0-204-g3eb00d1: Fix dry fountain tile not showing in ?/F 10(22 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3eb00d1601e7 13:15:59 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-203-g14233b2 (34) 13:46:10 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/829 * 0.23-a0-199-gee226fd: Fix the spell targeter for Gell's Gravitas 10(8 weeks ago, 3 files, 5+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ee226fd26119 13:46:10 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/829 * 0.23-a0-200-gc88caa3: Unify range checks between the targeter and fatal_attraction for Gell's 10(17 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c88caa3b1074 14:10:46 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-204-g3eb00d1601 (34) 14:44:33 Kitties in zigsprint can resurrect somewhere very inconvenient 15:39:55 I really don't know what to make of this pubby thing...I mean, they have dozens of commits including a species in the game already, how does it make any sense that they're having kind of a meltdown about non-communication when they haven't even been in irc in 10 weeks? 15:41:13 I'm going to hold off on responding to the latest post though, if anyone has any ideas feel free 16:45:15 Amulet of the gourmand's message not always appropriate. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11692 by damerell 18:04:21 Wiki is not showing any pictures (on any page, since yesterday) 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11693 by Duran 18:12:34 03NormalPerson702 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-205-g77c8c95: Fix the spell targeter for Gell's Gravitas 10(8 weeks ago, 3 files, 5+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77c8c957c9b0 18:12:34 03NormalPerson702 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-206-g7d5962a: Unify range checks between the targeter and fatal_attraction for Gell's 10(5 hours ago, 3 files, 12+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d5962a1ba82 18:13:50 03NormalPerson702 {advil} 07* 0.23-a0-207-g93a313e: Fix teleport closets in Cigotuvi's Fleshworks (11570) 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 22+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93a313ee0cf9 18:20:55 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-204-g3eb00d1601 (34) 18:54:56 fwiw I feel very similar to pubby. Most of the time when I submit a PR it feels like it vanishes into the ether. Like look at my oldest open PR #576. "Reduce Deep Dwarf HP modifier from +20% to 0%". It was based on a tavern thread with good discussion and I added a relatively long rationale. There has been no response in over a year. For a one line one word change! Like pubby says, even if the response is 18:54:59 "no, I don't think we want this change" I would love to receive ANY response over no response. 18:57:52 The way crawl PR process makes me feel is disheartened and ignored. I submit PRs expecting them to be ignored or given a cursory response and then ignored. Some of my contributions (like datafiles) have taken me months of real world time to complete, and have had presumably hours of contribution from dev team. But they too just... vanish 18:58:37 I also think it's unfair to say "well pubby hasn't been in here for months". I have never been proactively spoken with about a PR. The only responses I get are immediately after opening a PR or asking for an update 19:10:42 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-207-g93a313ee0c (34) 19:24:36 even a cursory comment on the PR like "We are preparing to release 0.22 and will not be adding new species at this time, once we start 0.23 developement we will have some discussion." 19:24:43 would have helped a lot 19:28:10 also being on irc shouldn't really be a requirement, the github platform itself works for discussion, and importantly keeps that discussion visible for new contributers to look at. 19:28:41 so they can see old ideas and the reasons why they didn't make it in the game for example 19:29:03 anyway, my 2 cents 19:33:14 tbh some of that is likely to be fear of an ever-growing backlog half of which isn't even applicable any more. 19:36:21 give ebering or alex commit access 19:36:23 or both :) 19:43:36 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/754 * 0.23-a0-210-g66fb848: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into travis-unbrace 10(5 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66fb8489242b 19:43:36 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/754 * 0.23-a0-211-g8ca6ba2: checkwhite 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8ca6ba2635a1 19:48:20 aidanh: about your user account -- do you mean you have a long password and you now have to truncate it? What length truncation? I think it's some dgl compatibility doing that which I might have inadvertently added/removed during the migration 20:46:53 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/754 * 0.23-a0-208-gdc62643: Add unbrace and checkwhite to Travis 10(5 months ago, 3 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dc62643a4b00 20:46:53 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/754 * 0.23-a0-209-g8297984: checkwhite 10(66 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/82979847c808 20:50:52 The pubby thing in terms of how he handled that was just very silly 20:51:11 definitely doesn't make me excited to collaborate with them much in the future 20:57:27 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/842 * 0.22-a0-875-g06d8813: Order background screen by initial difficulty 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 39+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/06d8813c4522 21:00:23 boy someone sure has an interesting idea of what's a weak start 21:06:49 like I said in the PR, it's pretty random. I'm not that fussed by what the ultimate order is. I just like the idea of sorting by difficulty rather than thematically 21:09:19 well it's not purely thematically, the current ordering; book with weapon/launcher, book with no weapon/launcher, start with a god, start with higher-quality weapon + other gear, and basically "other" 21:09:33 ok 21:09:37 it's really more a specific classification by equipment 21:09:51 but I think there's this issue that we never really decided how we'd actually like to order species 21:10:09 that's not by difficulty yet we'd do classes by difficulty? The problem was there wasn't quite a consensus 21:10:47 MarvinPA: btw, how do you feel about the current species ordering in terms of how well it works; there's a PR to attempt to order the classes by difficulty, but this would actually be inconsistend with how we order species 21:11:03 which is a sort of "learning curve" ordering I think 21:11:13 at least I believe that was the intent 21:12:09 but yeah, there is functionality to the current class groupings, it's just that they don't really give the player a sense of difficulty 21:12:19 the intent of the PR is to use the same metric/heuristic for backgrounds too 21:12:30 no, you state the opposite in your PR 21:13:17 As was done for the species selection screen, divide the backgrounds 21:13:17 into three groups. Rather than "difficulty for a new player to learn", 21:13:17 use "initial difficulty", based on the power of the background in the 21:13:17 first few Dungeon levels (say until D:9 or so). For new players, this is 21:13:17 probably more useful than overall 3-rune game difficulty or anything 21:13:26 You explicitely say (unless I'm interpreting this wrong) that this is not learning curve 21:13:33 sorry, perhaps my explanation was unclear. The goal is for players to understand that the first item in the list is easiest for them and the last item is the hardest 21:14:06 learning curve is not the same as difficulty in what I'm describing 21:14:16 I'm saying that the current species ordering is more close to learning curve 21:14:23 it's not a difficulty grouping 21:15:07 you could argue that the current species listing isn't even learning curve really but it's absolutely not a grouping by difficulty (just how hard it is to win with this species if you know what you're doing) 21:15:34 learning curve is how hard the thing is to learn, difficulty is how hard the thing is if you've already learned 21:16:35 alright, I've pushed an update which tries to clarify my intent. The background groupings use the same headings as Species, and the commit message body is updated 21:17:02 ok, if you were just going for what I'm calling learning curve, then that would be more consistent with what species are doing 21:17:40 just seemed based on your description that you were really aiming to group them by how strong they are in early dungeon 21:18:06 anyhow I think we do need to get some consensus on just what we want these listings to be 21:18:31 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/842 * 0.22-a0-875-g7b1369d: Order background screen by initial difficulty 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 39+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7b1369d27efa 21:19:37 another possibility that's been brought up in the past is to offer background selection first, which might be more helpful for new players 21:28:08 !lg * won s=role 21:28:09 78153 games for * (won): 14713x Fighter, 9409x Berserker, 5579x Gladiator, 4678x Monk, 3159x Wanderer, 3120x Hunter, 3068x Fire Elementalist, 2583x Wizard, 2480x Earth Elementalist, 2436x Enchanter, 2377x Transmuter, 2355x Conjurer, 2113x Assassin, 1979x Chaos Knight, 1872x Ice Elementalist, 1840x Skald, 1829x Artificer, 1783x Necromancer, 1656x Abyssal Knight, 1468x Warper, 1467x Venom Mage, 1459... 21:28:28 ^ theres your difficulty ordering, easy 21:29:06 (yes I know the stats are 'wrong' but it doesn't really matter) 21:29:10 oh, you were serious? 21:29:13 I thought it was a joke 21:29:31 yes I'm serious, this a decent difficulty list 21:29:35 chaos knight is easier than artificer? 21:29:44 eh, we can live with it 21:29:52 that's not a good list for difficulty 21:29:52 lol 21:30:01 maybe it can have some tweaks 21:30:46 I think we could tweak it right into /dev/null 21:30:49 but for a new player CK is 'simpler' than Ar 21:30:53 and more fun seaming 21:31:02 which leads to the high popularity? 21:31:18 telling players to play Monk or Wanderer is not going to give them a smooth learning experience 21:31:37 yeah monk and wanderer are pretty out of place 21:31:57 and Tm and CK and Skald...it's just not a good ranking 21:32:09 look you can argue all day about tierlists 21:32:34 jsut need to find a metric and use it 21:32:46 no, we don't need to use a metric to do this 21:32:46 maybe popularity isn't the best 21:33:05 it can just be a rough consensus, no queries to sequell are really necessary here 21:33:21 heh sure 21:58:22 could also keep the existing categories and jsut re-order them so simpler/easier roles appear near the top 21:58:37 maybe move monk to "Adventurer" 22:49:39 re crawl patch process 22:49:55 I started submitting patches before the gitorius -> github push when patches were submitted via mantis 22:50:15 at the time it felt like submitting an article to a journal: pick a handling editor and work directly with them to fix up your patch 22:52:15 then I took a break and came back and it still feels somewhat like that, though the PR workflow as it's currently used makes it harder to tell 22:52:21 I guess the assignee feature is there 23:31:49 alexjurkiewicz: my password was 32 characters, and got truncated to 21 chars 23:32:09 dang. How the heck did you discover that?? 23:33:15 it's actually a common enough problem when you use long, randomly generated passwords :) 23:35:48 I need to upgrade from 16 character random passwords, clearly I'm being outcompeted 23:37:31 if you can send your password in a twitter post its too short 23:37:38 yeah it's been like that since I was a contributor/dev; obviously how quickly things get responded to depend on how active various people are, but it's never been a fast process 23:37:52 I was just dilligent about patiently pinging people every now and again 23:44:48 the other surprisingly common problem is websites which accept a 32 character password during registration, but then have a maxlength=20 on their login form 23:49:59 alexjurkiewicz, https://xkcd.com/936/ 23:50:49 random word generator 23:53:06 alexjurkiewicz: re discussion above, I'm very sympathetic to the plight of the underappreciated contributor; it's definitely an area where we need to provide more indication that something is at least happening with people's work 23:55:54 right. I mean, I would be sad if you (crawl devs) go through the PR backlog and close most of my contributions as "no thanks". But if they won't be merged, I'd rather know, and it will give me signals about what sort of contributions are good going forward 23:57:05 I still think it's best if you make strike up a conversation with some of the usual suspects 23:57:07 and most devs get into the dev team because they were submitting their own changes. There are (and historically have been) very few devs who aren't primarily code contributors, rather than eg code reviewers 23:57:33 so I am sympathetic to "I didn't sign up for this" 23:58:20 There really isn't anything like a code reviewer, not because of "I didn't sign up for this" so much as because I don't think the concept works as well for a project like this 23:58:36 but there is also the fact that, yes, you can't really assign people to do work in the first place 23:59:20 gammafunk: I've tried that, and I get more feedback, but often the PR still sits there and it seems like I just annoyed some dev by picking on them rather than did something positive 23:59:55 an example of that is https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/581 "Rework strength damage modifier" which we talked about a fair bit but has just been sitting in limbo for a year