00:10:45 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-171-g5ae17c6e89 (34)
02:49:10 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-171-g5ae17c6
03:11:56 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.23-a0-171-g5ae17c6 (34)
04:20:05 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
05:42:40 <Yermak> Wizard command "load character from a dump file" is very sloppy. It only sets skills to integer(!) values, and drops your current armour pieces and weapon under you. Oh, it also sets Dex (and only Dex). No jewellery, no inventory, no god, no mutations.
05:50:28 <Yermak> It doesn't even set xl.
06:24:07 <aidanh> Yermak, that sounds like a bug; the code for parsing dumps is not great, but it does try to parse and set all stats, god, xl etc
06:33:33 <Yermak> Well, I just tried to load trunk dump in 0.22 version.
06:34:42 <aidanh> I'm not saying you're wrong; that code isn't often updated and I'd be surprised if weren't out of date most of the time
06:40:25 <due> "wots a wizard command precious"
06:43:26 <Yermak> Wow, I just checked 0.22 dump in 0.22 version. God, xl and stats work.
06:51:15 <Yermak> Different question: would a command that saves current character but doesn't quit application (offline play) be worth implementing?
07:46:43 <alexjurkiewicz> There is an option in offline play that returns you to the menu after saving a character, so it already sort of exists
07:47:42 <alexjurkiewicz> restart_after_save = true and restart_after_game = true
07:49:15 <alexjurkiewicz> MarvinPA: any thoughts on the orb run patch? do you like it except the orb guardian levels? I can just drop the orb guardian spawn share and also drop spawn rate, or replace them with something else. I was thinking giving the weight to pan and 3/4 demons
07:59:37 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v
08:31:15 <Yermak> alexjurkiewicz, oh, I see, thx
12:58:27 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:05:19 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-171-g5ae17c6 (34)
14:17:09 <minmay> when did monsters switch to using their melee damage, instead of their HD, for ranged attack damage?
14:17:09 <Sequell> minmay: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
14:17:13 <minmay> !messages
14:17:13 <Sequell> (1/1) due said (2d 16h 46m 42s ago): why hello there
14:19:51 <G-Flex> ??ring of shadows
14:19:51 <Sequell> ring of shadows[1/1]: Unrandart ring with {Umbra +Inv Stlth+}. Surrounds you in a 3-square radius {umbra}, increasing your stealth and reducing the accuracy of everyone (including yourself) attacking in or out of the umbra. Roughly the same as +3-5 EV. Yred/Dith followers, including profane servitors, are immune to the accuracy penalty. Halo and umbra cancel each other on overlapping squares.
14:20:26 <G-Flex> oops, wrong channel
15:13:00 <amalloy> ebering: the previous CSDC allowed you to switch gods without penalty after getting the champion point, whereas your current rules are phrased vaguely enough to read them as prohibiting it
15:13:52 <amalloy> did you intend to allow or forbid this? if allow, i'd change "don't abandon...later" to "haven't abandoned...yet"
18:20:51 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-171-g5ae17c6e89 (34)
18:59:13 <visitor> where's the 0.21.2 release? ;o)
19:00:01 <visitor> are you going to skip it altogether?
19:02:41 <visitor> don't be hypocrites and just say "we won't release it". :)
19:05:06 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
19:16:25 <alexjurkiewicz> why would not releasing it make the dev team hypocrites?
19:22:31 <minmay> so a net trap in this ossuary seems to have created a throwing net that can't be picked up
19:22:55 <minmay> http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/saves/minmay-crawl-git-5ae17c6e89-180912-2322.tar.bz2
19:25:56 <visitor> just be honest about it
19:26:58 <visitor> and why it's so hard to release it since every change have been mentioned on the akrasiac changelog???
19:27:12 <visitor> who screwed up? :)
19:27:42 <visitor> 70 bugfixes etc. but no release available!
19:29:59 <visitor> surely you don't have any incentive to go back to an old point release and release it... but why it's even mentioned on the changelog...
19:32:52 <TAS_2012v> ...
19:36:56 <visitor> <advil> a release happens when the version number gets tagged, which hasn't happened yet
19:37:30 <visitor> that's from last month's log
19:37:44 <visitor> who's responsible for tagging?
19:39:41 <visitor> tags should happen in chronological order :)
19:44:25 <alexjurkiewicz> what is chronological order, when it comes to multi-version release strategy?
19:45:28 <alexjurkiewicz> there is branch for crawl 0.22.x, and a separate branch for 0.23.x, and a third branch for development. They all receive changes independently. Developers can choose to make the same change in multiple branches, but it requires work
19:46:07 <alexjurkiewicz> Do you personally still play 0.22 and don't want to upgrade to 0.23?
19:46:20 <alexjurkiewicz> I think the number of people in that group would be small
19:46:27 <visitor> ehh
19:46:42 <visitor> there's no "stable" 0.23 yet
19:47:21 <visitor> i very much disliked the ghost change in 0.22 and that's why i would prefer 0.21.2
19:48:31 <alexjurkiewicz> I see. you can check out the stone_soup-0.21 branch and build it yourself, to get the very latest changes against 0.21
19:51:18 <gammafunk> visitor: I suggest you relax, bringing a lot of hostility like that isn't welcome here
19:52:11 <gammafunk> The release will be tagged and built when we have time to do that, and if you find the timeframe unacceptable then I suggest you learn how to make a build yourself
19:54:06 <visitor> i thought you only maintain one branch at a time, freezing the old one... and that's what i referring by chronological order. :)
19:54:58 <visitor> in plain english, 0.21.2 before 0.22 etc...
19:56:08 <gammafunk> well that is not how those branches work at all; they are essentially independent of each other after they are created
19:56:38 <gammafunk> the branches only exist to facilitate changes/bugfixes/releases, not to establish some kind of strict ordering
19:59:38 <visitor> i remember that every release has been strictly ordered until now... i have followed the development for years. :)
20:00:08 <gammafunk> that is entirely untrue, it seems you haven't been following development as closely as you think
20:00:34 <gammafunk> anyhow it's not a negotiation, we'll tag/build that release when we have time to do it
20:01:18 <gammafunk> it will be soon but not according to anyone's demands, so please don't make a habit of making demands here
20:02:14 <geekosaur> often btu not always, a point release of an older branch goes along with a newer release, mostly because they're collecting and documenting bugs at that point anyway. but they may also be released independently if there's a particularly bad (e.g. crash) bug found
20:04:24 <visitor> the unconditional ghost feature is very bad and breaks the old tradition of roguelikes...
20:05:09 <visitor> it's really a deal breaker for me.
20:06:09 <geekosaur> crawl has never been much for the "old tradition" in my experience
20:06:16 <visitor> hehe
20:06:42 <visitor> yeah, you have a chaotic development process. everything changes suddenly. :o)
20:07:40 <visitor> some people like me prefer more stability. :)
20:08:34 <geekosaur> (I'm not a dev; I sued to do some of the release builds.)
20:10:30 <visitor> it's a long way to 1.0 release. ;)
20:29:26 <alexjurkiewicz> I wonder what unconditional ghost feature means?
20:29:41 <alexjurkiewicz> You can't opt out of the change? Wonder what about every other change
20:35:40 <geekosaur> I do't get it either; the point is that they *are* conditionalnow, you can ignore the ghos vaultinstead of getting trapped into a fight
21:12:48 <gammafunk> you actually could easilly make your local install not have ghosts
21:12:53 <gammafunk> edit dat/dlua/ghost.lua
21:13:13 <gammafunk> and change that GHOST_VAULT_PERCENT variable (or whatever it's called) from 10 to 0
21:13:23 <gammafunk> then no ghost vault will ever place
21:14:26 <gammafunk> if you just don't want to see ghosts at all ever, it's still annoying to see the vault generate since you're going to have motivation to clear them at least some of the time
21:17:50 <alexjurkiewicz> I think that person wanted wandering ghosts back
21:21:54 <gammafunk> well he called it "unconditional ghost feature"
21:22:09 <gammafunk> implying that they didn't want ghosts
21:22:33 <gammafunk> but perhaps wandering ghosts are what they wanted, and yeah that's not so easy to roll back
21:22:57 <gammafunk> maybe some day in the future crawl will have more game mode settings
21:25:28 <Pinkbeast> Also, 0.21.2 is _there_, it's just untagged (and we've had a conversation where that was pointed out with visitor already)
21:53:16 <advil> "who screwed up? :)" wtf
21:53:25 <advil> way to encourage people volunteering their time to do something for you
21:54:36 <advil> I guess I'm probably the one who "screwed up" by cherry-picking the 0.21.2 provisional changelog into a 0.22 branch or whatever it is
21:54:40 <advil> that they were  complaining about
21:57:05 <gammafunk> I posted about it as well in the tournament writeup, but yeah I guess they read the changelog
21:57:19 <gammafunk> actually, on that note, are we all ready to do 0.22.1 (and 0.21.2)?
21:57:22 <advil> I think it was that the 0.22 changelog automatically gets posted on one of the servers
21:57:43 <advil> yeah probably
21:57:54 <advil> I'm not sure I'll have time to do builds until early next week though
21:58:23 <gammafunk> I can hold off on tagging until later this weekend then
21:59:17 <alexjurkiewicz> just get in that final `+ let GHOST_VAULT_PERCENT = 100` diff
21:59:53 <gammafunk> which gives time for any further bugfixes to potentially slip in
21:59:53 <gammafunk> right, and to make a commit that replaces all runed doors with floor
22:00:00 <gammafunk> door_vault suddenly a lot more interesting
22:00:20 <gammafunk> that honestly sounds like something that could have been a xom effect at one point
22:01:47 <alexjurkiewicz> xom does toggle doors. Runed doors are sort of a weird fourth-wall-breaking conceit though, so Xom touching those might be weird
22:03:02 <gammafunk> believe me I wasn't entertaining it as a possible feature
22:03:12 <gammafunk> just saying that it's the sort of thing that could have existed in the past
22:04:21 <alexjurkiewicz> :D
22:07:16 <advil> I had an idea recently of a runed floor feature that monsters can't cross, but that could be broken (+any contiguous runes) by stepping on, sort of like an iron grate (probably letting more things through) but without digging involved
22:07:23 <advil> it seems like it could be interesting
22:12:17 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 {advil} 07[stone_soup-0.21] * 0.21.1-78-g6b88cea: Fix X> leaking location of portals (silenth. #11629) 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b88cea6339d
22:12:17 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 {advil} 07[stone_soup-0.21] * 0.21.1-79-g58141ec: Fix double-space in Ash dancing weapon warning (Pekkekke, #11603) 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/58141ec3b057
22:12:17 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.21] * 0.21.1-80-g3f11df4: Fix a grammar issue with flying corrosive monster bits 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f11df41585a
22:12:17 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 {advil} 07[stone_soup-0.21] * 0.21.1-81-g021617b: Fix announcements for collecting runes in Sprints (hayenne, #11655) 10(2 weeks ago, 5 files, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/021617bff55c
22:12:17 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.21] * 0.21.1-82-gafb53d1: Add cross-compiling to travis 10(6 days ago, 4 files, 16+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/afb53d11738e
22:12:19 <advil> just to blow visitor's mind:
22:12:19 <alexjurkiewicz> so monsters can only step on runed floor if players are on a connected runed floor?
22:12:50 <alexjurkiewicz> you fool. You've disordered the beautiful chronological ordering of Crawl versions! we're doomed!
22:12:51 <advil> the idea was that if the player steps on any runed floor, all connected runes go away and monsters can move freely
22:13:14 <gammafunk> seems like the main use might be for flying monsters, how we can pin non-flying monsters with deep water/lava
22:13:17 <alexjurkiewicz> gotcha, so like a transparent multi-tile runed door
22:13:31 <gammafunk> which I'm not sure is so necessary to have just for those
22:13:41 <alexjurkiewicz> or is shooting over the runed floor allowed?
22:13:41 <gammafunk> but I don't know how you intend this feature to be used
22:13:42 <advil> yes, basically lets projectiles/spells through
22:13:54 <alexjurkiewicz> either way sounds like a good tool for vault makers to invent devious things
22:14:01 <advil> it might be
22:14:35 <gammafunk> yeah, but that's sort of the problem, you can do this already for non-flying monsters
22:14:49 <gammafunk> so I'm not sure there's a benefit beyond doing the same thing with flying ones
22:15:06 <gammafunk> I guess that somewhat useful, but you're adding a new feature mostly just for that
22:15:10 <advil> well the monsters can't get free if you're doing it with water/lava
22:15:11 <minmay> wouldn't a big transparent runed door work?
22:15:40 <gammafunk> yeah, but the monster can't get free with the runed floor either
22:15:48 <gammafunk> you'd have to step on it to release the monster, no?
22:15:53 <advil> yes, that's the idea
22:16:05 <gammafunk> so you can use flight to "release" those monsters currently as well
22:16:16 <alexjurkiewicz> reminds me of the bailey where kobolds with tomahawks are on either side of a moat
22:16:39 <minmay> reminds me of this throwing net that I can't pick up
22:16:58 <advil> I have in mind more the draconians in cages in zot
22:17:08 <advil> throwing nets always mulching is on my list
22:17:35 <advil> it just turns out you have to rewrite throwing nets altogether for it to work, otherwise I would've done it in 0.22
22:17:35 <gammafunk> yeah, but I think that vault is intending to be as much of a hassle as possible
22:17:41 <gammafunk> you could recreate that vault to simply use deep water or lava
22:17:44 <gammafunk> and the right drac colors
22:17:50 <gammafunk> if you wanted to make the vault a bit less annoying
22:17:52 <alexjurkiewicz> oh man, that vault! it is annoying
22:18:06 <alexjurkiewicz> but it's annoying like the xom burning sheep one. Rare enough to be alright
22:18:31 <gammafunk> you don't really need a special feature for that if you want to prevent reliance on digging or smite targetted attacks
22:18:54 <advil> I'm not really sure why water/lava is comparable, but maybe I haven't described what I have in mind very well
22:19:01 <gammafunk> only the black draconians fly, so you just have to not use that color and replace grates with lava
22:19:11 <gammafunk> right, just talking about that vault in particular
22:19:20 <minmay> advil, I think this one might have fallen onto the ground from a net trap, instead of having been thrown
22:19:38 <gammafunk> but that vault is a good illustration probably of how you can basically already get this effect if you just use a non-flying monster in the first place
22:19:44 <minmay> well I know it wasn't thrown
22:19:53 <minmay> but not whether it fell straight onto the ground or whether it trapped a mummy first
22:19:55 <advil> minmay oh this is a net in a current game? what happens?
22:20:04 <minmay> it's a throwing net and I can't pick it up
22:20:05 <gammafunk> maybe there are some other interesting cases for a feature like that though; just would really want to know what those are before adding it
22:20:09 <minmay> I linked my save above
22:20:32 <minmay> http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/saves/minmay-crawl-git-5ae17c6e89-180912-2322.tar.bz2
22:20:43 <minmay> I suppose removing net traps would probably also fix this bug :P
22:22:52 <advil> You see here a throwing net.
22:22:52 <advil> There are no objects that can be picked up here.
22:22:52 <advil> _a throwing net
22:22:52 <advil> nice
22:23:39 <advil> yeah I think it's a bugged trapping net
22:23:50 <advil> if you drop multiple items it describes as "a throwing net (holding you)"
22:26:09 <minmay> neat
22:26:16 <minmay> and thanks
22:27:34 <minmay> just to satisfy my curiosity, if it's convenient, can you try apporting it
22:28:08 <advil> heh, that works, it becomes normal
22:28:23 <alexjurkiewicz> spawn a minotaur on top of it :D
22:28:36 <advil> oh wait
22:29:09 <minmay> right, so, this is why i'm mad that Warper doesn't start with apportation anymore
22:29:14 <minmay> i could have had one more net
22:29:16 <advil> ok yes, apport does work, I just tested it on the wrong net
22:29:23 <advil> the first time
22:29:54 <advil> taking the stairs might fix it to, but that won't do you much good
22:33:00 <minmay> I'm just happy to have another opportunity to complain about mechanical traps
22:33:24 <Cheibriados> Ctrl-f does not identify Shaft 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11673 by RoGGa
22:57:21 <advil> so I believe the net bug was triggered by pulling a mummy out of a net using gell's
23:09:50 <Jorgrell> Stable (0.21) branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21.1-82-gafb53d1173
23:55:39 <minmay> huh yeah, that was it
23:57:50 <Eksell> Stable (0.21) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21.1-82-gafb53d1