00:06:35 how do you eat your cornbread 00:06:38 butter and honey? 00:06:44 is that what we're talking here 00:08:20 this one was made with green chilis and cheddar cheese baked into it 00:08:20 !dang 00:08:20 ohh dang!!!!! 00:08:39 now taking questions for radical Mu buff 00:14:17 I could see that one getting rejected pretty fast, but I haven't thought about the principles of what is and is not allowed for gods overriding species limitations 00:14:30 My sense is we need these restrictions for something like Ash + Gnolls 00:23:08 yes, I do think some restrictions would be nonsensical to life, Gn+Transfer Knowledge is a big one 00:23:09 and no point gifting ammunition to felids 00:24:07 it could be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but then it's probably going to come down to "is it actually fun/interesting that this limitation is removed" 00:24:33 yeah, and the current set-up is case-by-case already 00:24:33 I guess consistency is pretty desireable but it seems like we need a bunch of exceptions 00:25:11 I think, in general, it's more fun/interesting to have divine abilities bypass species limitations. It's just a matter of if the bypass breaks the game somehow 00:26:08 The other big one raised was Jiyva's mutation gifts. I originally was thinking it would be nonsensical to mutation the undead. But after thinking about it, I'm coming around to the idea being OK. If Jiyva is the only way undead can be mutated, that's sort of cool. And I don't think it makes undead species "more like" living ones 00:26:33 Gn/Transfer Knowledge would be super OP though, so I think from a balance perspective it has to be restricted 00:29:18 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:07:14 aidanh, earlier when you spectate a game, and player opened, say, their inventory, you could intercept the controls and move through it with your Home, End, etc. Nowadays, each time player moves through inventory, your picture changes as well, not allowing you to examine it thoroughly by yourself. 01:07:42 talking about Webtiles here. 01:08:33 alexjurkiewicz: you're missing the big edge cases here: arrow and stone gifts for FeTm/FeEE!!! 01:10:13 Imagine a snake challenge - kill everything with Sticks to Snakes - where player worships Oka and trains bows just to get arrows. 01:10:49 oh yermak, I saw a screenshot of your xl18 game in zot:5 01:10:49 it looked like you dug out the entire upper half of the floor 01:10:52 did you actually do that 01:10:58 err, nope 01:11:33 Though it could be an idea, since I scummed Abyss a lot and had lots of dig charges. 01:11:46 if it's for teleports it won't work 01:11:53 really? 01:11:56 interesting 01:11:56 you can only teleport to tiles that were not walls initially 01:12:10 thank you for letting Me know 01:25:38 CanOfWorms: dang. Although i think oka makes them suffer as-is 01:26:52 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-137-gef0ad6d (34) 01:47:49 I think allowing some God-species abilities for a month or two in trunk will be a good way to appease the "stagnation" bias. 02:02:19 Yermak, iirc spectators can still scroll independently with kb/mouse, it's just that if the player scrolls it always jumps to their scroll position 02:03:37 where previously if a spectator had scrolled, they would no longer follow the players scroll position for that menu instance 02:04:22 Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. 02:04:43 When player scrolls it ruins it. 02:06:03 If I start scrolling by myself, I don't want player to interrupt Me. 02:15:17 fair enough 02:16:09 thing is, for the purpose (provide a way for spectators to independently inspect the inventory) the old way is barely any better 02:16:56 they choose when to open and when to close the inventory 02:17:15 slightly less important is the fact that you can't view item descriptions 02:26:25 I disagree, the old way is much more better. It's hardly interesting to look how player scroll inventory between potions and scrolls deciding which to drop. Freshly joined spectator would rather inspect his artifacts. 02:27:08 you can check thier dump file for that, but often it wont be updated so the layer has to press # 02:27:23 maybe if there was a way for spectators to trigger a dump update? 02:27:42 *the player 02:27:51 There isn't afaik. 02:29:15 If spectator wants to follow exactly what player does to inventory, he just doesn't touch his keys. Otherwise he looks through it by himself. 02:29:56 And it's not only inventory. Ctrl-f results, for example, share the same behaviour, I believe. 02:30:36 I think scrolling the player's inventory while spectating is pretty obscure. I didn't even know you could do that 02:30:43 I agree 02:31:08 right, I understand that, but the menus will still close when the player closes them, even if a spectator was looking themselves 02:31:12 But it's better if it exists even if obscure 02:31:18 sure 02:31:52 that you can't help 02:32:49 I mean it wold be cool if spectators could do actions like look at inventory, check the previous floor or browse through shops. 02:33:13 I just don't think it's user friendly; I would rather have an independent way for spectators to inspect that stuff 02:34:33 That's for sure. But before this is implemented, old behaviour is a cheap replacement. 02:35:12 alexjurkiewicz, did you know you could look through minimap while spectating by using right mouse button? 02:37:32 huh, I didn't 02:37:33 i did notice that 02:40:31 Yermak, well, I don't have any real objection to reinstating the old behavior, other than having too many other things to do 02:41:13 PRs welcome though; I think it'd be a pretty minor change to menu.js only 02:42:46 Wrt independent game inspection, that'd take a fair amount of work; I'm not sure what other online games do here, might be worth researching a bit 02:43:39 simplest and easiest fix is, as mentioned, to add a way to get a chardump as a spectator 02:46:11 a unified window for the player that combines all the hard-to-learn-about status windows would be cool 02:46:31 alexjurkiewicz, seen the newgame-menus branch yet? 02:46:33 showing data from E, @, %, ^, ^O, \, etc 02:46:38 aidanh: !!!! 02:46:48 don't tell me this is already in progress 02:47:25 ah 02:47:39 oh wow. you made all these background tiles? 02:48:08 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/275ce28f8d0e1100c02e4d013ebb7ee0833eeadc/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/gui/backgrounds/Tr.png -> Tm.png :) 02:51:09 hm, looking at this code, maybe dealing with UI stuff is within my limited technical grasp 02:57:56 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-137-gef0ad6d 03:02:54 alexjurkiewicz, yeah, the background tiles are very much a work in progress; mostly butchered variants of existing tiles 03:03:49 there's also tiles for sprint maps, tutorial lessons, hints mode characters, and for your character before the game starts 03:05:35 but the background tiles really need someone like roctavian, ontoclasm, etc who's actually good at this pixel art stuff 03:09:02 oh, I'll have a look at these 03:09:33 what is the context for these? 03:10:24 they show up on the newgame menu when choosing a background 03:11:12 oh I see, it's not in 0.22 yet 03:12:02 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.23-a0-137-gef0ad6d (34) 03:15:01 I think for most of these you can use the skill icon in the skillinng menu 03:15:32 ohh that's not a bad idea 03:16:18 the ones that'll need new icons are going to be AM, As, Wn since their focus isn't a normal icon 03:16:29 and possibly Mo, Be and CK will need icons 03:17:19 for the mage backgrounds the spell school should work 03:17:26 wizard can use spellcasting 03:17:32 fighter will want shields 03:17:48 gladiator maybe helmet or one of the weapons 03:18:10 spear maybe 03:18:12 AK can use Lugonu's invocations icon which is shaped like the abyss portal 03:18:58 Ar uses Evo and Hu uses Bows 03:19:02 there's no shortage of invocation icons; one will probably work for monk 03:19:03 AM could use bows 03:19:07 yeah the spear looks good 03:19:14 well the Hu uses Bows :v 03:19:22 then crossbows :P 03:20:02 for AM we want an modified bow with something that suggests magic to remind the player that it gets a book 03:20:10 As gets stealth of course, just to rub in the incorrect understanding 03:20:21 monk could use the ecumenical altar tile 03:20:21 oh actually there's a generic ankh invocation icon for monk 03:20:32 at least I think it's an invocations tile 03:20:45 yeah, I was thinking of the ankh 03:20:52 Wn can get a custom ? 03:20:53 wanderer is hard. The question mark 'unknown monster tile' tile could do it 03:21:06 although perhaps a nice big ^ would be better for mo 03:21:12 heh 03:21:25 we could modify the beogh one with a ^ instead of a circle 03:21:32 nah, that's the error tile; it looks really out of place everywhere 03:22:37 there's a few smaller question mark tiles that could be recoloured though 03:22:59 yeah, it shouldn't be too much work to make a ? tile that looks like the skill tile 03:23:50 CK I'm thinking either a jester hat or something like https://thumb9.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/2582560/226143865/stock-vector-flat-designed-theater-happy-mask-icon-226143865.jpg 03:24:03 well, should be mostly straight forward; in retrospect it's such an obvious idea that I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it myself 03:24:09 haha 03:26:26 any brilliant ideas for the sprint map tiles? 03:26:54 I wonder if it's too on the nose to use axes for Be 03:27:02 they all look fine on their own, but the visual inconsistency isn't great 03:27:09 I'm less familiar with most of the sprint maps, let me see 03:27:32 I only have familiarity with meatsprint and linesprint 03:28:26 pipepipepipepipe...-sprint 03:29:09 hmm, for sprint map tiles do you mean having a tile for each individual map? 03:29:18 yup 03:29:21 I think in that case you can use an tile associated with the actual sprint 03:29:26 most of them have something iconic 03:29:32 that's basically what I did 03:29:54 I don't think I've ever seen the pits so I don't know what's actually associated with that 03:32:01 excuse to use some sprint unique tiles 03:33:34 well, red Sonja uses Sonja, and the menkaure one likewise 03:34:35 the main problem is that the tiles are not consistently sized, and that some take up the full 32x32 px, making the menu items look cramped 03:35:44 well they are all designed to fit in a 32x32 box so maybe you can draw a light border around the box 03:36:16 I think linesprint is the only sprint whose theme is specifically in the map layout from what I can tell 03:52:38 if the box drawing thing doesn't look good then an alternative is to just crop them so they're roughly the same size 03:55:29 hmm, the only issue with cropping is some of the ideal icons (axe of woe, quad damage) are already 32x32 and could look weird cropped 04:00:09 they could perhaps be reedited to make them slightly smaller 04:00:41 maybe 04:00:52 can you link a screenshot of how it looks currently? 04:15:40 https://ptpb.pw/GlTB 04:19:27 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:22:36 guys, is there any explanation as of why would purple smoke fill my entire Sprint map? Even closing the doors would not extinguish it. Any creature generating it? 05:13:39 hayenne, which map? iirc there's one map where that's intentional 05:18:24 III, 10-rune challenge 05:19:04 I fully completed it several years ago, but cannot remember such a thing. I wondered if something changed since then 07:10:45 hayenne: there shouldn't be that 07:13:43 the savegame: http://crawl.develz.org/saves/dumps/hayenne-sprint-ef0ad6d-180829-1112.cs, dump: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hayenne/hayenne.txt (you can see the dungeon overflown with the clouds in the dump too) 08:15:22 %git 646ff71b4c4 08:15:22 07advil02 * 0.22-a0-364-g646ff71: Fog spread rate simplification 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/646ff71b4c43 08:15:38 I suspect it's that, probably III was using non-spreading fog for cosmetic effect 08:16:07 (I don't see it in the entire sprint map per se, but it's definitely a bit out of control in that sprint now) 08:18:35 it probably actually makes that map slightly easier 08:18:42 though it also makes world_reacts really chug 08:41:44 It makes it harder for me since I rely heavily on Fire Storm 08:42:05 I had to cast it twice on me to kill Ereshkigal :D 08:42:44 on unrelated note, finishing the tunnel sprint now, it seems its rune count message it glitched - https://pastebin.com/pg1dP0m4 08:43:52 it seems the game still considers 15 runes maximum, while I hold 16 08:46:16 oh haha I see what's happening here 08:46:29 I think it is because I had all Shoals, Snake and Spider in the game at once 08:46:43 it's using fog machines, and because some fog types didn't used to spread, it gives them some crazy values 08:47:29 maybe to force them to spread a bit 08:49:24 got 17th rune, "go and win" again :) do you guys want me to raise an issue? 08:50:39 be interesting to see how the ten rune sprint handles that 09:04:52 Duplicate message "now go and win" on picking up runes 16 and 17 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11655 by hayenne 09:18:06 I wonder if spread_rate even does anything in lua fog machines 09:28:39 ohh, this used to be gloom 09:29:29 03advil02 07[ghost_fixes] * 0.23-a0-132-g57e3ce3: Tone down some blue/purple fog machines (hayenne) 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/57e3ce3997b3 09:29:57 I am just incapable of putting anything on the right branch 09:30:55 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-138-g286b84b: Tone down some blue/purple fog machines (hayenne) 10(7 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/286b84bf81cc 10:10:37 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-138-g286b84bf81 (34) 13:06:05 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-138-g286b84b (34) 13:40:46 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:42:33 it turns out there is a set_max_runes function exposed to lua, which sprint maps are supposed to use to tell crawl how many runes they're placing 13:42:59 sprint_mu is the only sprint that uses it, setting the max to 10 13:44:58 huh, linesprint places an "elven rune of zot"? that's kinda funny. that rune exists but is (apparently incorrectly) commented as // unused in the enum rune_type 13:46:47 the orcish rune 13:48:08 there is also some kind of forest rune which actually does not exist 13:48:18 or no, is that mossy? 13:48:52 elven rune is from a couple of sprints and zot defence (rip) iirc 13:49:10 right 13:57:45 hah, good comment from a sprint map: -- XXX: Zin is overpowered. 14:08:53 03amalloy02 07* 0.23-a0-139-ga22e90c: Fix announcements for collecting runes in Sprints (hayenne, #11655) 10(27 seconds ago, 5 files, 10+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a22e90c45fa2 14:09:11 iirc because picking up basically any gold at all gives you max piety 14:09:29 i imagine also because sanctuary is very strong in thunderdome, where you just have to survive 14:09:49 ah yeah, that makes sense too 14:56:10 don't you need to kill a certain amount of stuff to get arena points? 14:56:29 or am I mixing up my sprints 14:58:29 according to the comments in that file, the points you get for killing stuff don't matter, and are just for style 14:58:48 the gold you get is what actually matters for buying stuff, and that doesn't depend on killing things 15:10:21 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-139-ga22e90c45f (34) 15:40:24 advil: amalloy: I appreciate your fast response guys 15:40:51 game was practically unplayable! 15:41:29 development effort has been continually impressing me for years, the game still keeps on one's toes ;) 15:48:27 thanks hayenne 15:48:51 also I thought the fog thing was my fault (it was maybe PF's tho) 15:51:12 well, we can both share the blame equally 15:51:44 oh haha also that was MarvinPA not PF 15:53:34 not that I actually tested it with gloom, now that I look at this I suspect it would have just gloomed the whole sprint map once you opened the door 15:54:24 what the heck is gloom 15:54:24 yeah, it was quite a corner case 15:54:52 gloom is an old type of pseudo-fog, I think 15:55:20 gloom is very atmospheric though. and always reduces LOS to two, I think 15:55:32 %git a0ae0798b3ff79286ab4b7f6d0629adea15b2396 15:55:32 07MarvinPA02 * 0.13-a0-2434-ga0ae079: Remove gloom 10(5 years ago, 11 files, 32+ 66-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0ae0798b3ff 15:55:52 the bug was that there was a fog machine, originally set to gloom, that had size 1000 power 1000 15:56:18 good thing I played in trunk then ;) 15:56:28 I might yet win with that poor mummy 15:57:44 hmmm aren't my creatures supposed to attack enemies in sight once I tell them to guard area? my summons wander cluelessly just a few tiles away from an awake visible enemy who occasionally even fires at them 16:20:10 I've never really been sure what guard mode does 16:26:00 Ghost vault and trove portal spawned very close together. Ghost vault was broken by trove room. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11656 by falconhit 16:42:15 i think guard is just what used to be called "wait", and it sets the monsters to wandering. my understanding is they're supposed to behave basically like monsters that haven't spotted you yet, except that instead of you they're looking for enemies 16:42:25 but in practice i cannot predict how it will actually act 16:47:29 til that miasma is also a beam 16:48:01 it's kind of a weird one, it does some damage and applies the cloud effects (which are just flat effects) in case it does any damage 16:48:21 nice bug 18:20:53 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-139-ga22e90c45f (34) 18:59:01 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:40:24 The @ glyph for vaults seems to not be working properly 19:40:50 minmay_chopped_fan generated on this level but one of the @s is not connected to anything 19:43:14 here's a screenshot with the vault highlighted https://i.imgur.com/JjdVTiu.png 20:48:21 but are you sure there's not just a disconnected level area in that unmapped area of the vault? 20:48:53 some layouts can generate areas like that, so it might not be a problem with @ per se 20:51:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 20:58:44 how did you highlight the vault with purple? 21:01:13 probably just gimp 21:01:26 select an area, color replace 21:02:08 I guess you could use exclusions too 21:02:20 but that seems tedious 21:13:27 I forgot what was the problem with making cao page streak rules the same as tourney streak rules? 21:24:46 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:33:38 Yermak: someone's desire to update CAO scoring code 21:46:15 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 21:54:23 it's not necessarilly that clear cut 21:54:43 for instance sequell uses the same rules and that would be easy to update 21:54:51 it's more that those streak rules are more convenient 21:54:59 but for a tournament you probably want stricter rules 21:57:41 also changing those rules would invalidate old streaks 22:15:17 !seen twelwe 22:15:18 I last saw twelwe at Tue Jul 31 02:49:28 2018 UTC (4w 1d 23h 25m 49s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 22:31:02 I used exclusions to highlight it 22:31:41 we do need to get 0.22 into CAO scoring still 22:31:47 I read "This point will be connected to the rest of the level" as meaning it would be reachable from stairs 23:58:45 Positive travel_delay screws Firefox spectators. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11657 by Yermak 23:59:38 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-139-ga22e90c (34)