00:04:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
01:04:56 -!- Mandevil is now known as Mandevil\splat
01:50:20 <Rotatell> porpoise (L2 DsGl) ASSERT(load_mode != LOAD_VISITOR) in 'files.cc' at line 1348 failed. (D:2)
02:05:17 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/772 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/772
02:05:17 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/772 * 0.22-a0-444-ga9534c3: Player ogre rework 10(10 hours ago, 9 files, 105+ 34-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a9534c36b56b
02:06:39 <alexjurkiewicz> :O
02:20:06 <gammafunk> a cutish idea, a bit too similar to just picking a species like ogre and not worshiping a spell gifting god though
02:20:30 <gammafunk> it would play out pretty similarly since you can't really just go investing lots in a new school every time you find spells, and you only find so many spells
02:22:02 <gammafunk> but the dynamics of those limitations could make it a bit interesting maybe; not really a good fit for ogres I think, but might have a home somewhere
02:22:05 <CanOfWorms> the concept feels more suitable for a god
02:22:07 <gammafunk> yes
02:22:12 <gammafunk> was literaly just about to that!
02:22:15 <CanOfWorms> haha
02:22:49 <gammafunk> vehumet rework?!?!
02:23:04 <gammafunk> new pakellas...
02:23:11 <CanOfWorms> I was actually thinking about something similar for a pakellas rework a while ago, actually
02:23:18 <gammafunk> that's funny
02:23:33 <gammafunk> hrm, were you going to retain the no mp regen thing?
02:23:41 <gammafunk> or any of the evo stuff
02:24:03 <CanOfWorms> just the no mp regen thing
02:24:05 <gammafunk> my idle brainstorming about pakellas was something else entirely but I never really finished the ideas
02:24:38 <CanOfWorms> essentially turns a small subset of spells into a set of evocables
02:24:45 <gammafunk> yeah, maybe if you added that mp limitation it could feel like something pretty fresh
02:25:05 <gammafunk> mikee was mentioning how a rework of sif to make it more like "god of mp" would be more interesting potentially than another "god of spells"
02:25:15 <gammafunk> but may there's a good god idea with something like this stuff
02:25:26 <gammafunk> it's still spell-based I guess
02:25:55 <gammafunk> well old pubby trying to think outside the box a bit, no harm in that
02:26:20 <gammafunk> let me know if you get anywehre further with that god proposal, worms
02:26:51 <CanOfWorms> sure
03:03:02 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/772 * 0.22-a0-445-ga927561: Fix wandered assert. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a927561cbe7c
04:42:52 <Cheibriados> -Recite status shows twice on the status bar. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11488 by NormalPerson7
06:23:26 -!- eb__ is now known as eb
06:30:37 -!- gresshopper is now known as gressup
07:03:34 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.22-a0-444-g9e76084: Make splash_gauntlet patrolling, add bog bodies 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9e76084390b6
08:09:52 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-444-g9e76084390 (34)
09:31:33 -!- bh_ is now known as bh
12:06:19 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.22-a0-445-g8c8ef71: Fix webtiles status artifacts due to custom status light code (11488) 10(10 minutes ago, 7 files, 307+ 302-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c8ef71062e5
13:10:00 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-445-g8c8ef71062 (34)
13:14:04 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.22-a0-445-g8c8ef71 (34)
13:48:34 -!- yesno_ is now known as yesno
14:28:18 <muffindrake> Ah, there was something today
14:29:04 <muffindrake> I believe I had bought out all scrolls of a shop at once. After I hit enter, part of the usual status UI was drawn over the shop screen
14:29:13 <muffindrake> (in ncurses)
14:35:03 <muffindrake> and another ncurses issue which is 100% reproducible: if you have an excessively long hidden spell list in your spell library that allows you to scroll up/down in that menu, go to the Hide menu, scroll down to the bottom, then switch to the Memorise menu
14:35:34 <muffindrake> this will cause the memorise menu to be scrolled down to the same degree that the hide menu was, showing nothing
14:50:43 -!- yesno_ is now known as yesno
14:57:39 <muffindrake> ... this occurs often if you have spells set to hide-by-default and only have a handful in the memorisation list
15:07:01 <aidanh> so the scroll offset isn't reset on show/hide/etc tab change? hm, I guess update_entries() needs a scroll_to_item(0) in there
15:12:35 <muffindrake> I suppose the menu is actually called Show, no matter
15:19:38 <sobieck> Hey there. It looks like I'm encountering a bug from a recent update. I get this error message with returning to a trunk game on akrasiac.org. "lua_marker::read error: ...master/crawl-git-8c8ef71062/data/dat/dlua/fnwrap.lua:30: Could not resolve 'callback.release_the_mummies' to a function"
15:23:51 <amalloy> %git 859395c47d1cee12c4987c4580f80add91c1f4c4
15:23:51 <Cheibriados> 07bh02 * 0.14-a0-943-g859395c: Remove Tomb Raider Vault 10(4 years, 6 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 111-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/859395c47d1c
15:25:03 <amalloy> i don't really know how lua save compat works. i guess the marker persisted but the function it's supposed to call didn't?
15:25:13 <|amethyst> yeah
15:25:56 <|amethyst> usually when removing a lua callback you'd put a dummy into dat/des/variable/compat.des
15:26:30 <|amethyst> (or even a non-dummy, if things would be broken by the function doing nothing)
15:36:36 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac
16:30:30 <muffindrake> So, what is up with morgues not outputting UTF-8?
16:30:39 <muffindrake> http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ShadedKnight/morgue-ShadedKnight-20180504-175758.txt
16:30:48 <geekosaur> that's web server configuration
16:30:55 <muffindrake> Ah.
16:31:16 <geekosaur> text files haveno indicagion of their charset so the web server guesses. out of the box many of them will use iso8859-1
16:32:20 * geekosaur has his browser set to force utf8, so morgues usually work… but some websites that do bad things (mostly sending what is claimed to be iso8859-1 but is really something else) fail
16:33:30 <muffindrake> So the issue here is the web server wrongly sending information about the data
16:34:17 <muffindrake> I'm also able to force utf-8 here manually and a local text editor also correctly recognizes the downloaded  file as utf-8
16:34:39 <muffindrake> as does the file program
16:37:57 <geekosaur> right, it just slaps 'Content-type: iso8859-1' on it because it doesn;t know what else to do. there are ways to override that on the server end
16:38:07 <geekosaur> but web servers don't have built-in 'file' functionality
16:38:17 <geekosaur> (apache probably has a plugin available but it's not stock)
16:38:22 <|amethyst> text editors and `file` have heuristics
16:38:37 <|amethyst> looks like apache isn't slapping any encoding on the content-type
16:38:38 <muffindrake> I'm fully aware
16:39:25 <geekosaur> I don;t even know that server is apache. maybe they changed the default, it used to slap one on and if you didn;t override you got iso-1
16:39:48 <|amethyst> but, yeah, the server needs to be configured that that, in that directory at least, files are served up as UTF-8
16:40:24 <|amethyst> johnstein: any chance of setting AddDefaultCharset to the morgue directories (and maybe others) on cbro?
16:40:32 <|amethyst> s/to/in/
16:40:51 <|amethyst> claims to be Apache/2.2.22
16:41:20 <muffindrake> >Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu)
16:42:31 <muffindrake> For me it's Content-Type: text/plain, which should default to utf-8, as that's my locale default encoding
16:42:37 <muffindrake> but it didn't
16:44:48 <|amethyst> muffindrake:  the HTTP RFC says that, if no charset is specified by the server, the default is ISO-8859-1
16:44:58 <|amethyst> s/server/sender/
16:45:08 <muffindrake> Oh, that's too bad then.
16:45:28 <|amethyst> (probably because it's 19 years old)
16:45:33 <geekosaur> right, firefox at least lets you override that. not seeing it in chrome
16:46:28 <muffindrake> Sure, but it should choose utf-8 _by_default_ here, as that is what it's set to (fallback text encoding: default for locale), because I specified it to
16:46:32 <|amethyst> there's an extension for that
16:46:49 <muffindrake> And yet it forces me to manually switch it every time
16:46:56 <|amethyst> hm
16:47:08 <|amethyst> that sounds like a problem in your user-agent then
16:47:19 <|amethyst> I can verify that the header doesn't specify a charset
16:47:26 <|amethyst> s/header/response header/
16:48:05 <muffindrake> this is not a useragent problem, this is a browser issue
16:48:07 <geekosaur> badly behaved proxy server or something?
16:48:14 <muffindrake> a setting not doing what it says
16:48:23 <|amethyst> that's what I meant by "user-agent"
16:49:27 <|amethyst> muffindrake:  which browser?
16:49:55 <muffindrake> firefox
16:50:20 <|amethyst> muffindrake:  hm, this page claims that the intl.charset.default preference no longer exists: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/Localizations_and_character_encodings
16:51:47 <|amethyst> hm
16:52:14 <|amethyst> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=967981#c4 implies there is a new option, but also that a value of "UTF-8" is ignored
16:52:24 <muffindrake> Under font settings, there is an option to set text encoding for "legacy content that fails to declare its encoding"
16:52:29 <muffindrake> Yes, that's what I'm getting at
16:53:01 <|amethyst> time to recompile your own version of firefox :)
16:53:19 <|amethyst> anyway, hopefully johnstein sees my message and fixes it server-side, which is where it should be fixed
16:53:59 <|amethyst> since right now the server is implying latin1 even if it doesn't explicitly state it
16:54:06 <muffindrake> I have already compiled firefox myself, but I don't feel like patching mozilla's byzantine river of despair is a good use of my time
16:54:19 <|amethyst> probably not :)
16:54:48 <|amethyst> also, I'll have to remember "byzantine river of despair"
16:55:34 <|amethyst> maybe set that as the "name" of @crawlcode
16:55:35 <muffindrake> in any case, chromium does what the RFC suggest to do by default, which is wrong in this specific case
16:55:38 <muffindrake> and yes, it should be fixed
17:02:35 <muffindrake> hexaflexagon tested this on other servers as well and finds that cjr, cue and cwz have the same misconfiguration
17:02:46 <muffindrake> ??cjr
17:02:47 <Sequell> cjr[1/2]: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks:8081/ Hosted in Montreal by Zibudo (admin@jorgrun.rocks) and Gramm. SSH login info: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/console.html.
17:02:48 <muffindrake> ??cue
17:02:49 <Sequell> cue[1/4]: European Crawl server, located in Amsterdam, Netherlands. http://underhound.eu:8080/ or underhound.eu, port 23, username: terminal, key: http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key.ppk See {putty} for Windows users. Runs 0.10-trunk (DCSS, Zot, Sprint, Tut). Formely known as CLAN.
17:05:19 <wheals> ah yeah i noticed this behavior ages ago but always forgot to ask the server admins about it
18:14:49 <SkeggAtHeart> Howdy! After finishing my first 15 rune run where I spent 1/3 of my total turns (80k of 240k) scumming the Abyss to prepare for extended, I'm curious if abyss scumming is seen as a problem we want to prevent. It was miserable, not fun, and while I can understand the argument of 'you brought this on yourself', it feels out of character for the general DCSS design philosophy
18:15:22 <SkeggAtHeart> If I was to submit a PR that stopped food from spawning in the Abyss, and minisculely increased droprates in other areas (to keep total amount of food for a 'normal' run consistent), do you think it would have a chance of being accepted?
18:15:33 <SkeggAtHeart> Or would a more creative design find a better chance?
18:16:35 <SkeggAtHeart> Notably I was at maximum Zin piety, which allowed me to do this for zero cost - I gained 6 skills zero to max level, countless artefacts, gear, and gold, netted +20-30 rations (which was critical for my journey in Hell that ate more than that), and was never once in risk of dying.
18:16:43 <CanOfWorms> someone is currently working on a patch that drags higher level players to lower levels of the abyss which effectively increases the danger level
18:16:47 <hellmonk> it'd be good for abyss to have no items and no exp if this is actually a problem ("actually a problem" meaning "increases your chance of winning")
18:17:00 <SkeggAtHeart> It VASTLY increased my chances of winning. I cakewalked the entire extended because of it.
18:17:06 <SkeggAtHeart> As a first try, sight unseen.
18:17:06 <hellmonk> idk if the abyss level draw thing will work or not, doesn't it only happen on teleport
18:17:23 <SkeggAtHeart> I think that abyss draw is a good thing, but I don't think it solves the problem.
18:17:24 <CanOfWorms> I thought it also happened when you initially enter the abyss, I'll have to check the commits
18:17:28 <SkeggAtHeart> I actually went to abyss 5 for fun at times.
18:17:43 <SkeggAtHeart> And you can always escape/reset your abyss level while doing this farming.
18:17:54 <SkeggAtHeart> If you wanted to play 'optimally', even with that I'd prob take first escape I saw on abyss 2 each time.
18:18:23 <SkeggAtHeart> I think the normal downside is the Abyss will malmutate the fuck out of you, but Zin stops that normal cost from mattering.
18:19:20 <hellmonk> abyss doesn't even have that much malmutate tbh, it's mostly temporary muts from wretched stars
18:19:31 <SkeggAtHeart> While it's possible that I would've had just as easy of a time in extended without it, going from a zero spellcasting berserker to simultaneous Tornado/Fire Storm/Shatter in crystal plate with 1% failure seems...helpful.
18:19:49 <hellmonk> I don't usually scum abyss because if I can survive abyss I can just win and it takes less time, but I also hate extended so whatever
18:20:06 <SkeggAtHeart> Oh I forgot those were temporary because of Zin. Plenty of Neqoxec though
18:20:36 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.22-a0-445-g8c8ef71062 (34)
18:20:45 <SkeggAtHeart> Like to be clear on the process here, I just macro'd autofight/autoexplore and held down the key for about 5 hours.
18:21:15 <hellmonk> yeah, "infinite levels" are bad for crawl in general imo
18:21:16 <SkeggAtHeart> (To be fair, if that let starcursed mass split to 10+ masses I took back control for a shatter)
18:21:18 <SkeggAtHeart> Agreed
18:21:27 <SkeggAtHeart> I think that the simplest change is just to remove food.
18:21:36 <SkeggAtHeart> There are a host of possible fixes here.
18:22:00 <SkeggAtHeart> But making it so there is an unavoidable drain on a critical (if plentiful) resource in the Abyss fixes the underlying issue
18:22:02 <hellmonk> well if you just remove food you can still scum for like 40k turns or whatever, if this is actually a problem that seems kind of bad still
18:22:09 <SkeggAtHeart> ...fair.
18:22:12 <advil> if you have shatter online (and didn't compromise the character to get it), I'm not sure that abyss farming is changing your odds of winning
18:22:12 <CanOfWorms> removing food doesn't stop the problem because you can just necromutate
18:22:20 <SkeggAtHeart> I got shatter online while farming abyss
18:22:26 <SkeggAtHeart> I was just a melee berserker up until my time there.
18:22:47 <advil> ok, what was your starcursed mass strat before that, then?
18:22:50 <SkeggAtHeart> Ah. Thank you Can. I haven't come across that yet (only been playing a few weeks) so good to know.
18:22:58 <SkeggAtHeart> Run :p?
18:22:59 <hellmonk> oh yeah, you can also get your level 8 dual school transmutation to shut off the food clock to continue scumming
18:23:03 <hellmonk> actually forgot about that
18:23:03 <SkeggAtHeart> Or just don't autofight/explore
18:23:14 <CanOfWorms> your highest chance of winning probably occured when you mollified trog
18:23:17 <SkeggAtHeart> At the beginning of the abyss scumming it was much more manual.
18:23:45 <Pinkbeast> SkeggAtHeart: This does raise the question of whether it would have been harder to win by getting Shatter online in Pan.
18:23:49 <SkeggAtHeart> Well specifically I did the scumming to prepare for extended. I've got several 3rune wins and just wanted to see the rest of it.
18:23:59 <hellmonk> you can probably do the same thing with hell spawns if you really wanted to, I guess it's slightly riskier but you can camp an upstair in good terrain
18:24:26 <hellmonk> basically my point is if infinite exp is a problem then the infinite exp needs to be removed everywhere
18:24:28 <SkeggAtHeart> Hrm. Necromutate isn't compatible with zin, but you are still immune to mutations like that eh
18:24:34 <Pinkbeast> Pan> having got abyssal, slimy runes
18:24:34 <SkeggAtHeart> I'm aligned with that approach.
18:24:38 <SkeggAtHeart> It's just a much bigger change.
18:24:46 <hellmonk> that means no exp abyss, finite pan, no exp hell spawns
18:24:51 <SkeggAtHeart> I'm also now aligned that removing food only increases the difficulty.
18:24:53 <hellmonk> ideally no items in abyss either
18:25:11 <CanOfWorms> the only items in the abyss are manuals you can't use
18:25:14 <SkeggAtHeart> No xp/items in abyss does solve for that. There's no infinite gains then.
18:25:30 <SkeggAtHeart> Does make it far less attractive a choice for a 3 runer
18:26:03 <SkeggAtHeart> I'll spin up a design doc on the subject if you think it useful.
18:26:16 <Pinkbeast> It's already not a very attractive choice for a 3-runer
18:26:53 <SkeggAtHeart> Ah. Again, my lack of knowledge shows. That was my first win ><
18:26:58 <SkeggAtHeart> (With abyss)
18:27:55 <hellmonk> it's ok sometimes
18:28:15 <hellmonk> I do abyss third on spriggans usually
18:29:09 <Pinkbeast> I did it 3rd of 3 on VSFI but I'm pretty sure in retrospect that was a bad decision
18:29:39 <hellmonk> actually, no exp abyss is a huge buff to my ruthless efficiency spriggan strat because I'll be able to kill stuff without getting exp
18:30:31 <CanOfWorms> haha
18:31:42 <hellmonk> just remove the summons halving exp thing in the same version to nerf it
18:33:15 <SkeggAtHeart> I am confused by what that is hellmonk
18:33:22 <SkeggAtHeart> Why is not getting XP a buff?
18:33:30 <hellmonk> oh, it's just a silly tournament challenge
18:33:34 <hellmonk> to win below xl 19
18:40:08 <SkeggAtHeart> Ah! Thanks, god it.
18:44:52 <SkeggAtHeart> Started the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1htv1E_w6pl3zc4KM1pYVu80SUR5AccPgJRTA8URtR5w/edit#
18:44:58 <SkeggAtHeart> Adding in the proposals now
18:53:00 <SkeggAtHeart> Oh hey, mummies don't need food either.
19:00:53 <SkeggAtHeart> hellmonk: Pinkbeast CanOfWorms advil (and any others with thoughts on this): please feel free to edit/comment/add additional proposals to bit.ly/scumabyss
19:27:20 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/772 * 0.22-a0-446-g5a2bd3f: Improve wanderer assert (NormalPerson7) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5a2bd3f43c9f
19:27:20 <Cheibriados> 03pubby02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/772 * 0.22-a0-447-g91b1733: Fix starting spells not appearing. 10(88 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/91b1733950eb