01:41:28 -!- eb_ is now known as eb
02:45:32 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-402-ga933591
06:10:55 -!- johannm is now known as Tungsten_
09:11:27 -!- us17_ is now known as us17
09:11:46 -!- TooLmaN_ is now known as TooLmaN
09:12:09 <advil_> hm
09:12:15 <advil_> I have split fro myself?
09:12:18 <advil_> *from
09:12:59 <advil_> freenode seems toubled
09:13:09 -!- advil_ is now known as advil
09:15:33 <advil> does anyone know how the gnoll viable species list came about?
09:15:36 <advil> it sems kind of odd
09:15:51 <advil> also, I'm not enthralled with the word "viable" there
09:17:17 <advil> it is, sk, tm, wr, am, wn
09:17:27 <advil> !lg * recent gn-- s=class o=% / won
09:17:28 <Sequell> 786/78884 games for * (recent gn--): 13/354x Air Elementalist [3.67%], 35/1142x Venom Mage [3.06%], 20/772x Earth Elementalist [2.59%], 27/1109x Summoner [2.43%], 49/2085x Wizard [2.35%], 14/596x Ice Elementalist [2.35%], 22/948x Berserker [2.32%], 31/1451x Necromancer [2.14%], 31/1515x Arcane Marksman [2.05%], 19/933x Fire Elementalist [2.04%], 13/645x Conjurer [2.02%], 19/952x Chaos Knight [2.00...
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-288-gbf7c31b: Change species generation to python 2.7 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bf7c31b779ee
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-289-g9201aa5: Format/refactor for 80 columns 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 79+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9201aa59e481
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-290-g9ef5112: Don't inherit from dict, use constructor instead of factory function 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 56+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ef5112fbdfa
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-291-ge24a7fb: Make build dependencies more specific 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e24a7fb3aca0
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-292-geca3f6f: Handle empty mutation lists a bit better 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 17+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eca3f6f3564f
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-293-g08ee2c8: Add entry format description to header for species-data.h 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 19+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08ee2c857f5f
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-294-g648d254: Don't set recommended weapons for non-starting species 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 16+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/648d2540c07b
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-295-gd0c7f61: Fix undead type 10(20 hours ago, 3 files, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0c7f61ef533
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-296-g2525d87: Add walk/pray verbs to SP_UNKNOWN and deprecated species 10(20 hours ago, 2 files, 10+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2525d8704819
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/721 * 0.22-a0-297-gd4cb019: Handle demigod stats properly 10(19 hours ago, 3 files, 15+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4cb019f9d34
09:37:35 <Cheibriados> ... and 2 more commits
10:23:07 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v
11:27:54 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-403-gc217a56: Fix loading of paletted images on SDL tiles 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c217a56188f2
11:46:49 <Lightli> ??plan
11:46:49 <Sequell> plan[1/2]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/0.21-Development-and-Release-Plan
12:10:00 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-403-gc217a56188 (34)
13:05:13 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.22-a0-403-gc217a56 (34)
15:14:38 <advil> maybe gn should just have all backgrounds be viable, would be thematic
15:23:22 <gammafunk> advil: I don't think that's a great precedent since you could use flavor justifications to do various other recommendations for species that way
15:23:41 <gammafunk> and the idea was to keep the number of recommendations between species/classes more balanced
15:24:46 <gammafunk> I don't know how many species recommend wizard and if there's another background that gnoll recommends that already has a lot of recommendations
15:25:05 <gammafunk> so that you could just swap things around a bit
15:33:58 <advil> well basically none of the recs make sense, they're all from bultungins (or at least that's what amalloy said on reddit)
15:34:37 <advil> well, they don't *not* make sense but they're definitely not the most viable ones for gn
15:35:18 <advil> also, I doubt that the existing recs for gn really factor into the balancing across species. (I haven't checked the inverse recs)
15:37:42 <gammafunk> the recommendations were never supposed to be the most viable in the sense of the best for winning
15:38:39 <gammafunk> all I mean by pointing out the balance of recommendations is that each class recommendation influences the number of species that recommend that background
15:38:59 <gammafunk> it is true that changing one doesn't have a big impact, but it may be that e.g. wizard is recommended a lot already
15:39:43 <gammafunk> but we obviously don't want to recommend only the most viable things since that will by definition make it impossible to balance those numbers
15:40:13 <|amethys1> gammafunk:  but that was a big part of the reason we moved to asymmetric recommendations
15:40:13 <gammafunk> sorry?
15:40:34 <|amethys1> so that we didn't have to worry so much about having class X be recommended by only so many species
15:41:25 <gammafunk> well, I think we wanted the flexibility to adjust those recommendations so that they were balanced is what I'm saying
15:41:48 <gammafunk> if by only so many species you mean too few species recommend a background, then yes I'd agree that's part of balancing those numbers
15:42:42 <gammafunk> but just to be clear, I think the recommendation is about recommending things that are interesting and have good synergy with a species
15:43:00 <gammafunk> these will often be strong classes but very often they will not be the strongest (hence not the most viable)
15:44:28 <gammafunk> right now Gn recommends: Wn Sk Tm Wr AM
15:44:43 <gammafunk> Wz has six recommendations
15:45:32 <gammafunk> and it looks like most mages have 6, a couple have 5 or 7
15:47:59 <gammafunk> so yeah we could simply add Wz to Gn since it only has 5
15:48:19 <gammafunk> and it does not recommend any other mage start
15:50:00 <advil> Adding wz to gn would make sense, but I'm not sure any of the existing ones make sense, like I said they were apparently constructed for gnolls v.1
15:50:13 <advil> also, "viable" is a really bad name for this kind of recommendation
15:50:52 <gammafunk> yeah, I don't think anything uses that word in the game menu
15:51:00 <advil> it does
15:51:15 <gammafunk> ah I see it
15:51:25 <gammafunk> that's probably because the word is short
15:51:33 <advil> yeah, seems plausible
15:51:38 <gammafunk> "Recommended" might be too long?
15:51:40 <gammafunk> not sure how that menu works
15:51:51 <|amethys1> well, and the old system used to be more about "viable"
15:52:02 <gammafunk> re: v.1, keep in mind that this species is actually similar to the current gnoll
15:52:09 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst
15:52:30 <gammafunk> I believe the warrior mage class recommendations about the fact that gnolls have good spell skill and good melee skills necessarilly
15:53:05 <gammafunk> so I think they definitely sense, but that doesn't mean we have to recommend all of them
15:53:18 <gammafunk> since we want to have some variety in the recommendations
15:53:22 <gammafunk> *definitely make sense
15:53:56 <gammafunk> we recommend 4 out of the 5 warrior mages which does seem high
15:55:11 <advil> one challenge is that once you start picking the regular book starts it's not obvious how to choose among them, so maybe adding wz to the list covers that ground
15:55:47 <gammafunk> right, if another was chosen, probably the best choices would be Ne Su IE
15:56:21 <gammafunk> you just want to think about which books starts are more likely to incorporate a good deal of melee due to having spells that more strongly synergize with this
15:56:34 <gammafunk> but those three I named probably get recommended a lot already
15:56:37 <advil> I don't think gn recommending wz requires wz recommending gn, right? that's what |amethyst was alluding to
15:56:43 <|amethyst> right
15:56:44 <gammafunk> yeah, that's right
15:56:55 <|amethyst> hm
15:57:11 <|amethyst> the newish races don't seem to be recommended by any jobs
15:57:26 <|amethyst> so it would probably be worth tweaking that too, where appropriate
15:57:46 <gammafunk> yes
15:58:07 <gammafunk> Ne only recommends 5
15:58:23 <gammafunk> woah
15:58:31 <gammafunk> I just crashed, now how did I do that
15:58:42 -!- Mindiell_ is now known as Mindiell
16:01:04 <gammafunk> http://dpaste.com/2AHT5JN
16:01:26 <gammafunk> seems to have started a summoner and caused a crash
16:01:26 <gammafunk> let me see if I can recreate
16:01:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
16:02:31 <gammafunk> started a ddsu sort of by accident and it crashed
16:02:43 <advil> huh, I've seen that crash a few times but had no idea it was game beginning like that
16:03:06 <gammafunk> ah
16:03:06 <gammafunk> advil: can you try choosing summoner first then DD?
16:03:06 <gammafunk> I just crashed again
16:03:10 <advil> one sec
16:03:53 <gammafunk> hrm, it's not consistent I guess
16:04:38 <gammafunk> yeah I can't seem to cause it again, but I did get a second crash once
16:05:51 <amalloy> fwiw there are a lot of races recommending Wz already. 9 of them, compared to 4 or 5 for stuff like AM/Sk
16:05:51 <gammafunk> looks like it's the same type of crash the second time
16:06:18 <amalloy> not to say that it's wrong to have yet another race recommending Wz
16:06:45 <advil> haven't gotten it so far...my laptop is a bit behind master
16:06:45 <gammafunk> I can't seem to reliably recreate anyhow
16:07:19 <gammafunk> the best kind of bug, one that only triggers 2% of the time
16:10:47 <gammafunk> ok, crash again, let me see if I can do this
16:11:02 <gammafunk> gosh darn it
16:11:19 <advil> the stack trace makes it look like something that could happen any time you pick up a book, which is guaranteed to happen on turn 0 by a book start
16:12:59 <amalloy> advil: i think ShoppingList::ShoppingList() just doesn't initialize its vector member, and assumes that means it will be nullptr but actually it could be anything
16:13:22 <advil> haha nice
16:13:26 <amalloy> why does it even have a CrawlVector* instead of a CrawlVector?
16:13:37 <advil> what even is a CrawlVector
16:14:14 <amalloy> a vector that tags.cc can automatically serialize, and iirc it has tagged unions for values, rather than being homogenous
16:14:50 <gammafunk> I'm suprised that advil hasn't run into the infamous CrawlVector before
16:15:04 <amalloy> me too
16:15:06 <advil> amalloy: that's a surprisingly reasonable answer
16:15:07 <gammafunk> also glad that amalloy gave that summary because mine would have been terrible
16:15:11 <advil> I think I have, but I forgot about it
16:15:28 <amalloy> it's CrawlHashTable, but indexed by integers
16:16:17 <gammafunk> it wouldn't be CrawlCode without a CrawlVector
16:16:19 <amalloy> let me try to repro the crash locally, and then i'll try a simple fix
16:16:31 <amalloy> we can put a real fix in later. i just have to start a DDSu?
16:16:50 <gammafunk> I seemed to get it by choosing Summoner then Deep Dwarf
16:17:19 <gammafunk> but based on what's been said I doubt order is important
16:17:21 <gammafunk> and it only happens like one time in ten from what I've seen
16:17:39 <advil> I still can't replicate it, but amalloy's hypothesis would probably lead one to expect different behavior on different compilers
16:17:41 <amalloy> cool, repro on the third try
16:19:17 <amalloy> second try after applying my "fix". lovely
16:19:23 <advil> heh
16:19:34 <advil> oh I just got it
16:19:46 <advil> hm, maybe this is different
16:19:59 <advil> I triggered a different ASSERT at least
16:20:23 <advil> and this was a segfault
16:20:39 <amalloy> oh yeah, i'm getting a different assert than gammafunk was too
16:20:47 <amalloy> i'll try it in the debugger
16:20:55 <advil> blah blah SFLAG_UNSET?
16:21:26 <amalloy> yeah
16:21:29 <advil> it's roughly in the same place
16:22:38 <amalloy> oh, and now i get the one gammafunk was getting, while in the debugger
16:26:19 <amalloy> aidanh: you may be interested, as this seems to be code from:
16:26:19 <amalloy> %git 4f8b0bdfded
16:26:19 <Cheibriados> 07Aidan Holm02 * 0.22-a0-382-g4f8b0bd: Clear useless books from $-list after finding spells 10(3 weeks ago, 3 files, 37+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f8b0bdfdedd
16:26:39 <Currency> I was having this issue on the ui-overhaul branch but that was ~ a week ago.  It was happening every time I loaded a char with a level 1 spellbook.
16:29:27 <advil> ok who wrote spells_added_to_library :-P
16:29:49 <advil> also who has the @crawlcode password these days
16:30:27 <advil> if (!thing_is_item(thing)) // ???
16:30:27 <advil> continue;
16:30:34 <advil> is my candidate
16:30:46 <Currency> tip top stuff :D
16:31:40 <advil> though probably this is modeled after something else, maybe cull_identical_items -- at least whoever wrote this added the ???
16:32:16 <amalloy> advil: aidanh added this function in the commit i linked above
16:34:42 <advil> amalloy: was your first hypothesis about `list`?
16:34:51 <amalloy> yes
16:35:10 <gammafunk> what if we had shops where you could buy advice
16:35:20 <amalloy> i think ShoppingList::refresh() is being called when the crash doesn't occur, and is not being called when the crash does occur
16:36:26 <amalloy> further, anecdotally, it seems that the crash occurs when i start a second game of crawl without exiting all the way to the shell. ie, start a game, ^Qyes, then from the menu start another game
16:36:58 <amalloy> there is some leftover stale state from the first game that causes the setup for the second game to break, maybe in you.props
16:37:07 <advil> ah, sounds plausible
16:37:29 <advil> though if refresh fixes it, probably not in you.props
16:37:41 <amalloy> refresh reads from you.props
16:38:31 <advil> yes, but only resets the list if that key doesn't exist
16:38:31 <advil> fwiw I was not reliably getting it when I did ctrl-q to menu, though
16:38:50 <amalloy> yeah, i think i see what you mean. i'll try to figure out what codepath leads to calling refresh and see why it might not go there the second time
16:50:10 <amalloy> well, this seems to fix it but i'm not thrilled, nor am i sure it won't break some other weird case. i'll push my fix but if anyone can find a better place to put this call to refresh i'm happy
16:53:25 -!- pauldub_ is now known as pauldub
16:53:26 -!- neizenel_ is now known as neizenel
16:53:28 -!- bytesighs_ is now known as bytesighs
16:53:47 -!- yaknyasn_ is now known as yaknyasn
16:53:49 -!- mroth_ is now known as mroth
16:54:33 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07* 0.22-a0-404-g35e5176: Fix a crash in game startup 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/35e51767bf18
16:58:14 <amalloy> i see now why ShoppingList::list is a pointer now though. it doesn't actually want to own the vector; it wants to be an alias for you.props[SHOPPING_LIST_KEY] so that edits through ShoppingList are automatically propagaged to you.props, from which they are automatically (de)serialised
16:59:58 <amalloy> i guess that would be more useful as a comment than an IRC message
17:01:26 -!- Rjs- is now known as Rjs
17:01:26 <gammafunk> yeah I guess that's a very common pattern
17:01:51 <gammafunk> using an alias to the prop so that changes remain permanent
17:05:11 <gammafunk> ^status
17:05:11 <Rotatell> 43 Crawlers. CBRO disk usage=99% (135GB) | RAM usage=51% (4GB)| uptime/CPU= 17:05:01 up 120 days, 20:40,  3 users,  load average: 0.68, 0.78, 0.88 (4 Cores) http://status.berotato.org
17:05:14 <gammafunk> johnstein: looks like we're almost full on cbro again
17:05:38 <amalloy> ah, and i understand the cause a little better new. in game setup, we write `you = player();`, which clears the props table. but we haven't cleared the shopping list, and it still refers to the memory that used to hold your shopping list, which might or might not be valid
17:06:52 <advil> hm
17:07:03 <advil> aidanh might have found this already, he was running some stuff through valgrind
17:08:05 <advil> and I remember he found something
17:08:13 <amalloy> this is sorta a questionable use for a prop imo, since there is only one function that ever writes or reads that prop. it's "convenient" to not have to write the tags.cc code, except that actually it wound up causing a bug. i think it would be cleaner for the vector to live inside the shopping list, and persist it by hand in tags.cc
17:09:31 <advil> yeah
17:09:50 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-404-g35e51767bf (34)
17:10:26 <advil> that's not what he found in valgrind btw, or at least not what he mentioned finding
17:12:10 <advil> the shopping list seems like it should be like a vector<whatever> in player
17:12:23 <amalloy> well, there's a lot of stuff in player
17:12:30 <amalloy> i understand not adding more and more fields
17:12:50 <advil> but it's now implciitly a field on player
17:12:55 <advil> because it's in you.props
17:12:59 <advil> *implicitly
17:13:07 <amalloy> but yes, it would be nice if the canonical place were inside of player, or some other useful class, instead of being a top-level singleton
17:14:22 <advil> you.hopes_and_dreams.shopping_list
17:18:06 <amalloy> looks like the shopping list as we know it today was added in 2009, and its storage has been the same ever since: a global singleton object, with a pointer member aliasing you.props
17:22:56 <amalloy> advil: i'm in favour of moving it to a field of player, but i'm not excited about doing it myself. are you interested?
17:23:06 <advil> haha
17:23:13 <advil> I can add it to the list
17:23:59 <advil> it would involve a bunch of tedious worrying about save compat, depending on how we do it
17:24:10 <advil> though I suppose it could just set the prop before serializing
17:53:39 <ebering> what does the dev workflow look like these days; it seems the wiki is no longer used?
18:00:35 <gammafunk> we've been using the github wiki more
18:01:00 <gammafunk> the doku wiki is the public one that you can still sketch proposals on
18:01:25 <gammafunk> or you can make a wiki page on your own fork of the the repo and give us a link (which we can add to planning pages)
18:01:43 <gammafunk> but most changes just happen in local branches and are not planned out via wiki, same as before
18:09:44 <ebering> splendid
18:09:57 <ebering> I'm not sure if I have ideas but I have The Itch again
18:10:34 <Pinkbeas1> I'd see a doctor about that if I were you
18:15:37 <ebering> nah I'll just e-mail patches
18:19:36 <ebering> the secret dream would be an octopus king wizlab but I doubt octopode crushers would be brought back for that
18:20:35 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.22-a0-404-g35e51767bf (34)
18:21:54 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan
18:37:41 <gammafunk> ebering: you must defeat me, the creator of octopode crushers, before you can summon them from the grave
18:37:48 <gammafunk> they answer only to their living master...
18:38:13 <advil> iron giants with an octopus tile?
18:38:26 <gammafunk> they predate iron giants!!!!
18:38:34 <gammafunk> well, in main crawl they do
18:38:53 <gammafunk> iron giants were/are a sprint monster before grunt created them
18:39:11 <gammafunk> I'm pretty happy with the harpoon shot thing since it solves most of the problem that the throw thing did
18:39:30 <gammafunk> and it's a vastly simpler implementation to boot
18:39:43 <gammafunk> although I think much of that code, much refactored by PleasingFungus and wheals, lives on with robin's throw ability
18:39:52 <gammafunk> oh and iron giants can still throw monsters
18:40:08 <gammafunk> .harpoon
18:40:10 <Sequell> 57. Kairos the Cleaver (L11 VSFi of Okawaru), slain by a swamp worm (kmap: worms_lemuel) on Lair:1 on 2018-05-07 15:43:49, with 7682 points after 6538 turns and 0:18:08.
18:40:14 <gammafunk> .harpoon cikiller=iron_giant
18:40:16 <Sequell> 2. TheAlmightyOne the Bringer of Light (L27 HOMo of The Shining One), blasted by an iron giant (iron shot) on Dis:7 (iron_city_of_dis; dis_wall_7) on 2018-04-07 23:44:30, with 865522 points after 70685 turns and 6:16:59.
18:40:32 <gammafunk> so far only two harpoon-based iron giant kills, and I don't think that was a major factor in either death
18:40:39 <gammafunk> .harpoon s=ckaux
18:40:40 <Sequell> 57 games for * (harpoon cikiller=swamp_worm|iron_giant): 36x, 19x harpoon shot, iron shot, some deep water
18:40:45 <gammafunk> nice
18:40:50 <gammafunk> a collision death
18:41:00 <gammafunk> .harpoon ckaux=some_deep_water
18:41:01 <Sequell> 1. Steelmeadow the Spry (L17 HaAs of Dithmenos), collided with some deep water caused by a swamp worm on Swamp:4 on 2018-05-05 02:28:51, with 131006 points after 45952 turns and 2:47:47.
18:41:07 <gammafunk> .harpoon ckaux=some_deep_water -tv
18:41:08 <Sequell> 1. Steelmeadow, XL17 HaAs, T:45952 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
18:41:19 <ebering> harpoon shot spooked me playing earlier today
18:41:36 <gammafunk> haha, wow
18:41:38 <gammafunk> good tele
18:41:44 <ebering> ya
18:41:49 <gammafunk> oh wow
18:41:52 <gammafunk> another good tele
18:42:17 <gammafunk> yeah it's pretty spooky, I'm sure it'll cause a lot of collateral kills that won't be easy to find with queries
18:42:36 <gammafunk> I've cleared swamp a few times with them and I had one dangerous incident that cost me a blink scroll
18:42:46 <gammafunk> but I didn't actually come close to dying
18:42:50 <ebering> so the player doesn't get thrown anymore though :(
18:42:56 <gammafunk> yes
18:43:36 <gammafunk> but the reason why I like pull better than push is that the push introduces this silly thing where if you're trying to melee the monster, you have to sort of keep trying
18:43:51 <gammafunk> which it wasn't very safe to melee monsters that had this, but it was particularly annoying
18:44:10 <gammafunk> and the throw effect had a lot of randomness inherent to it that made any kind of planning a reaction difficult
18:44:49 <gammafunk> the pull mechanic is more predictable and still a reasonably strong effect that works normally in terms of dodging and blocking
18:45:17 <gammafunk> also ebering, players don't get thrown but they can collide with things!
18:45:25 <gammafunk> mostly deep water or lava if they're not flying
18:45:45 <gammafunk> but possibly monsters if a shot misses one of your allies and hits you, obviously that's a corner case
18:46:14 <gammafunk> and I like that there's this tradeoff with flying to prevent said collisions
18:46:23 <gammafunk> if you fly, you'll get pulled further but take no collision damage
18:46:52 <gammafunk> assume e.g. the swamp worm is in deep water
18:47:03 <gammafunk> wouldn't be too relevant for iron giants
18:47:16 <ebering> it would if they were octopodes
18:47:26 <ebering> !
18:48:23 <ebering> def. harpoon shot is very cool and produces an effect similar to but more fun than player throw
18:49:59 <gammafunk> ebering: you could make an octopode unique
18:50:48 <gammafunk> I don't think we want to make too many "one-off" species monsters since those end up being hard to make fit into the regular game in a meaningful way and just start from a flavor basis
18:50:52 <gammafunk> but uniques can be more exceptional
18:51:16 <gammafunk> people have spitballed some kind of "ring master" unique but I'm not sure I've ever heard a good proposal for an op unique yet
18:53:13 <ebering> yeah I'm not sure I have any good ideas
18:54:39 <ebering> the joke one is an op w/malign gateway and a throw attack that sends the player to next to the tentacle but that seems too mean to fight
18:57:02 <ebering> and also my memory is that MG isn't that scary as a monster spell, I've seen it on some liches and you can just walk away
18:58:07 <gammafunk> ebering: the op throws the MG portal near the player, like it's a summon bomb
18:58:16 <gammafunk> (that's a silly idea)
18:58:56 <gammafunk> I'm not too keen on reviving throw attack in general since it was really complicated for not great gameplay
18:59:08 <gammafunk> it even has to have its own ktype because it does damage so differently
18:59:17 <gammafunk> s/has/had/
19:17:57 <amalloy> TIL about harpoon shot. cool spell
19:19:35 <gammafunk> it allowed us to finally stop swamp worms from submerging
19:19:41 <gammafunk> but I think we have to remove that submerging code
19:19:54 <amalloy> you'll never find it. it's submerged
19:19:54 <gammafunk> kraken tentacles are the only thing doing this currently, and they don't need it
19:20:01 <gammafunk> .....i don't get.....
19:36:35 <Sergeek> Hello to anyone who is on board! I have another question about species editin. I want to make it so that my dude gains +1 to two stats every other level, rather than one. Can I simply tweak around the syntax in species-data or do I need to code such thing from scratc, like with demigods ad their double chosen stat?
19:38:46 <Pinkbeas1> It doesn't look like there's anything you can do in species-data.h to that effect
19:41:33 <Sergeek> Aw jeez, that's a pity - will leech from demigod statgain then
19:43:51 -!- Pinkbeas1 is now known as Pinkbeast
19:44:02 <Sergeek> Another one - is there a cap on experience aptitude? Jugding from Gnolls - there is no for skill aptitudes, but what if I set the experience to more than 1? Will it even matter? Didn't notice much difference when cranked it up to 3.
19:44:44 <hellmonk> you might get weird behavior at extremely high/low values, depending on how that stuff is actually set up (too lazy to check)
19:45:35 <hellmonk> the current range among crawl species is only from +1 to -2, I'd imagine that you can get quite a bit outside that before running into any problems
19:49:10 <Sergeek> I see, thank you
19:49:42 <Sergeek> Are you that hellmonk who does hellcrawl fork?
19:49:54 <hellmonk> yes
19:51:21 <Sergeek> Nice! Trying to get around dcss tinkering precisely because I had a great time with your fork and now want to do some modding myself. Thanks
19:59:41 <amalloy> Sergeek: you can confirm that your experience aptitude is working by playing around in wizmode. start a HuFi, create a golden dragon, and kill it. see what level you get to, and then try again with your new XXFi
20:00:19 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.22-a0-405-g6463fda: Handle startup preferences (esp. name) better when restarting 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6463fda370fe
20:00:36 <advil> I still haven't replicated those crashes on my home computer (they must just be rarer on mac for some reason) but I did find some other bugs
20:02:38 <advil> oh haha amalloy already fixed it
20:03:43 <amalloy> like hellmonk, i would expect it to basically work
20:09:52 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-405-g6463fda370 (34)
20:32:40 <aidanh> urgh, yeah, that shopping list code is a mess
20:35:04 <aidanh> I guess I'll have to add valgrinding multiple games in a row to my pre-push checklist
20:36:17 <aidanh> the valgrind bug I found before was a write() of uninitialized memory while saving chunks, but I was never able to figure that one out
20:37:50 <aidanh> Currency, if you have any feedback on the ui-overhaul branch changes, I'm all ears
20:47:44 <Currency> aidanh: I just ran into that bug before.  Didn't mean to give offense.  I was referring to the silly boolean expression naming rather than the bug itself but I get that's probably not clear.
20:52:15 <aidanh> No offense taken at all! I ask because you're the only person who's mentioned testing that branch out :)
20:54:22 <aidanh> Yeah, thing_is_item() is pretty bad; I threw it in for save compat reasons, but it's be better to redo shopping list storage entirely as others discussed
20:55:09 <Currency> Oh.  My apologies then.  Sure.  I've been playing with it a lot.  My personal pet peeve I've been trying to crack is getting CMD-Q to function with it on OSX.
21:00:17 <Currency> I tried to send you a private message about bug reports for the branch/help with it at one point but I suppose you never got it.  I figured manits was cluttered enough without feature branch issues.
21:05:38 <aidanh> I'm afraid not; if you tried to send it over Irc it's possible my bouncer lost it
21:06:45 <aidanh> if you mention me here in crawl-dev I'll see it though
21:07:05 <Currency> Ah ok.  I did ./msg
21:07:52 <aidanh> any chance your client logged it? eager for bug reports here :)
21:08:33 <aidanh> also, is the cmd-q thing specific to the ui-overhaul branch?
21:10:08 <gammafunk> %git 7aac3cfdd960
21:10:08 <Cheibriados> 07wheals02 * 0.18-a0-1763-g7aac3cf: Fix autofight if you remap keys (#5634). 10(2 years, 1 month ago, 2 files, 102+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7aac3cfdd960
21:10:15 <Currency> Yeah.  The normal game handles it and saves the game.
21:11:47 <Currency> It's not clear to me how yet.  I'm really unfamiliar with how C++ does os level stuff like this beyond basic atexit()
21:14:15 <gammafunk> hrm, both autofight and automagic use a delta_to_cmd (formerly delta_to_vi) that they define themselves
21:14:31 <gammafunk> seems like something that could really be an appropriate clua lib
21:14:49 <gammafunk> er, not formerly, since I have a patch to rename it
21:19:02 <aidanh> Currency, thanks, I'll look into that; crawl uses SDL2 for windowing stuff like that, so it's probably an error with quit event handling
21:30:35 <gammafunk> can you modify e.g. the crawl lua metatable from a lua file?
21:31:00 <gammafunk> I'd like to put delta_to_vi (soon to be delta_to_cmd) in that metatable but I don't really want to rewrite it in C++
21:31:09 <gammafunk> since it seems fine to have as lua
21:32:36 <gammafunk> I guess there's the question still of where I'd modify it from in terms of a lua file
21:32:54 <aidanh> iirc you should be able to get the metatable and modify it, but not assign a new one to crawl
21:33:29 <aidanh> unless your metatable has a metametatable preventing modification, of course
21:33:53 <gammafunk> yeah, sounds reasonable, although I realise that this makes things a bit weird in terms of where I'd put this modification
21:34:15 <gammafunk> right now we load a bunch of files in dat/clua at game start at some point
21:34:46 <gammafunk> they are loaded in order, so I could this in e.g. the first file in the list, but this introduces an order dependency
21:34:46 <gammafunk> which isn't presently there
21:35:00 <gammafunk> !source initfile.cc:1571
21:35:00 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/initfile.cc#L1571
21:35:21 <gammafunk> alternately I could simply put this in a lua file and not add this to the list
21:35:22 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:35:31 <gammafunk> and then have the relevant lua files load it
21:36:55 <gammafunk> perhaps this is how dlua stuff is already basically handled
21:37:13 <gammafunk> only explicitly load a few files and have other files in the same dir that are sourced by said files
21:37:49 <twelwe> alternatively, yeah, it might work, but would you be proud of the work?
21:39:06 <gammafunk> I'll be proud when I send a DMCA notice to take down pizza tornado
21:42:13 <aidanh> the way luakit does it is to have a core c library and then additional helper libraries written in lua that can be require()-ed in
21:42:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  when you say "modify the metatable", do you mean that you want this to be crawl.delta_to_vi instead of just delta_to_vi ?
21:42:42 <gammafunk> |amethyst: yeah that's what I was thinking
21:42:46 <gammafunk> maybe that's just not necessary
21:42:50 <aidanh> but then crawl seems to have disabled a lot of builtin lua stuff like require, so I'm not sure if that'd work
21:43:21 <gammafunk> aidanh: yeah looking at dlua.cc, dlua just loads dungeon.lua specifically and that starts a chain of includes for all the other files
21:43:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  that part's easy enough ignoring the dependency issues:   crawl.delta_to_vi = function(dx, dy) ...
21:43:27 <aidanh> crawl.delta_to_vi would be better for namespacing purposes at least
21:43:41 <gammafunk> ok
21:43:50 <gammafunk> so I'll probably just make a lua file in clua
21:43:59 <gammafunk> and not add it to the initfile.cc load list
21:44:07 <gammafunk> and have autofight and automagic er..no
21:44:10 <gammafunk> I don't need to do that
21:44:17 <gammafunk> I'll just define it into crawl.delta_to_cmd
21:44:30 <gammafunk> and then modify those files to call that
21:44:42 <gammafunk> at least I hope the crawl lib is defined by the time those are loaded
21:45:15 <|amethyst> it doesn't have to be defined before the users are defined
21:45:15 <|amethyst> just before they are run
21:45:17 <gammafunk> gotcha
21:45:25 <gammafunk> I didn't think about how lua does scoping
21:45:55 <gammafunk> lexical? I've already forgotten that bit of CS
21:46:25 <|amethyst> it's still lexical scoping, but it doesn't check for undefined variables at compile time
21:46:35 <|amethyst> python e.g. is similar
21:55:44 <gammafunk> hrm, I guess I do want to add this to the initfile list
21:55:49 <gammafunk> since it would be weird to include it twice
21:56:11 <gammafunk> as it's modifying the crawl table
21:57:00 <|amethyst> could put it into userbase.lua
21:58:10 <|amethyst> (it's in the dlua directory, but is loaded automatically into the clua interpreter, see CLua::init_lua
21:58:13 <|amethyst> )
21:58:28 <gammafunk> that sounds good, yeah
21:58:45 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
22:01:18 <gammafunk> well, it looks like my plan is temporarily thwarted by the fact that I actually have to rewrite part of automagic
22:01:45 <gammafunk> since this new delta_to_vi function works differently
22:02:00 <gammafunk> so I'll just push this rename patch for autofight for now and look to clean that up later
22:08:47 <Floodkiller> it's like 7 hours late for the discussion on it, but all the Gn recommendations were placeholders and I never got around to fixing them
22:09:04 <Floodkiller> I brought it up a couple times, but nobody seemed to want to discuss it so I just forgot about it
22:12:24 <hellmonk> just rec them every mage bg tbh
22:16:41 <gammafunk> yeah I don't think recommending warrior-mages is bad, those classes make sense for Gn, but probably we don't need to recommend quite so many
22:17:34 <gammafunk> Ar would make sense to me, obviously Wz, could add in something like Ne or IE
22:18:35 <Floodkiller> I think they were originally recommended Wz, but some people complained (Gn v1.0) so I swapped it to Wn in spite
22:18:37 <gammafunk> and it could lose one or two of the warrior mages
22:18:42 <gammafunk> haha
22:18:57 <gammafunk> Wn is still good, so we wouldn't change that one
22:19:49 <gammafunk> elliptic: by the way, if you have any opinions on what classes Gn should recommend or which classes Gn recommend, we'd value your input since you did still the current idea from mikee
22:19:53 <Floodkiller> also, I think I forgot to any recommendations the other way around: picking a class first will never recommend Gn
22:19:55 <gammafunk> s/still/steal/
22:20:02 <gammafunk> right, also a problem for Ba?
22:20:24 <Floodkiller> probably
22:39:51 <ebering> it seems like the webpage "live games" listing is only cbro and cpo these days?
22:47:07 <advil> !bug 11403
22:47:07 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11403
22:47:25 <advil> gammafunk: while you're at it, you might as well merge the patch in 11403
22:47:46 <advil> I would have done that already but I forgot about it because it's in mantis
22:56:54 <gammafunk> advil: that's exactly what I'm merging, yeah
22:57:32 <gammafunk> I am just making a commiter's note about the automagic issue and I will ping w h e a l s about it after I push in case he wants to fix automagic himself
23:02:55 <advil> ah ok
23:03:58 <Cheibriados> 03Poroing02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.22-a0-406-g9ff8d77: Fix obsolete function name. 10(2 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ff8d774c118
23:05:03 <gammafunk> wheals: I made a note about in the message of 9ff8d77 about updating automagic to have the same kind of change to the (former) delta_to_vi() function you made for autofight a long time ago.
23:05:36 <gammafunk> wheals: if you wanted to update automagic since you might understand the relevant code still, please feel free, otherwise I can take a look at that later
23:07:22 <gammafunk> oh woah, splash screen request
23:07:33 <gammafunk> ah yeah, this is from dynast
23:08:02 <gammafunk> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=7634&type=bug
23:09:26 <gammafunk> oh right, there are still some code issues for using all of roctavians tile variants
23:10:29 <gammafunk> advil: is the bug mentioned in https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11268 fully fixed by now?
23:10:49 <gammafunk> I guess there's still an open PR on our sdl contrib, maybe two
23:11:03 <gammafunk> oh no there's just one PR
23:11:18 <advil> oh I never even saw tha tPR
23:11:42 <advil> I merged something very similar
23:12:56 <gammafunk> free bug report fixing credit if you want to resolve that one
23:16:32 <advil> I'm not 100% sure if his change covers the same cases
23:59:36 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.22-a0-406-g9ff8d77 (34)