01:06:50 <Brannock> conversation has passed on but I agree about binary switches not being great
01:16:43 -!- Bammboobies is now known as Bammboo
03:11:42 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-396-ga924934 (34)
03:26:31 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
03:27:55 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
03:31:42 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/623 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/623
03:31:42 <Cheibriados> 03jmart02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/623 * 0.21-a0-397-g015e241: Fix wizmode mutation resistance bug 10(20 minutes ago, 2 files, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/015e241de713
04:22:33 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
05:52:54 <Cheibriados> 03jmart02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/623 * 0.21-a0-398-g4eb401e: Simpler bugfix 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4eb401e1c1c4
09:01:07 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/624 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/624
09:01:07 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/624 * 0.21-a0-397-gf8b9da8: Don't (auto)travel via stairs into exclusions 10(10 minutes ago, 3 files, 34+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8b9da851b9f
09:48:16 <advil> "Looking through the code, the "find_ray" area seems unnecessarily overcomplicated."
09:48:17 <advil> th
09:48:18 <advil> x
09:57:59 <advil> it is true that you can shoot fireballs around walls in a bunch of circumstances that you can't shoot them around monsters, though
10:02:57 <advil> even standing diagonally adjacent to a 1x1 wall, you can shoot around it
10:03:27 <advil> looking at the paths for bolt spells though, I'm not sure we'd want to change this in general
10:10:08 <advil> maybe someone who actually knows things about ray/beam should respond in that issue also
10:58:50 <Cheibriados> 03Jean Martel02 {advil} 07* 0.21-a0-397-g4a2d380: Fix wizmode mutation resistance bug (#623) 10(7 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4a2d38052308
11:21:29 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-397-g4a2d380 (34)
11:40:47 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/626 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/626
11:40:47 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/626 * 0.21-a0-397-g2690a03: Fix tiles message region resize behaviour 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2690a030ddfe
11:50:49 -!- starship is now known as duracrisis
13:04:31 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-397-g4a2d380 (34)
13:10:19 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
14:04:13 <|amethyst> Hm
14:04:58 <|amethyst> aidanh: now when I get an item selection menu and there are both floor and inventory items available, I don't see the menu
14:05:42 <|amethyst> aidanh:  I can still select items, but the only thing that displays on the screen is the "{Read,Identify,...} which item?" line
14:06:04 <|amethyst> aidanh:  this is a webtiles build, being run from console
14:06:50 <|amethyst> aidanh:  not sure it's because of one of your changes, but "Stop drawing current menu page after a MEL_TITLE entry" seems like it might be relevant
14:06:59 <aidanh> |amethyst: I can reproduce this on tiles as well
14:07:14 <aidanh> ...that's probably it
14:07:45 <|amethyst> ah, yeah, the "Inventory Items" and "Floor Items" headers are MEL_TITLE
14:08:48 <|amethyst> and MEL_SUBTITLE is already being used for the object category headings, so it wouldn't work to change it to that
14:09:41 <aidanh> Yeah, reverting that commit fixes it
14:10:14 <|amethyst> could that be narrowed down to some more specific type of menu perhaps?
14:10:24 <|amethyst> is the help stuff a formatted_scroller maybe?
14:10:31 <aidanh> I could add a MEL_SCROLL_BLOCKER
14:10:40 <aidanh> I think it is a formatted_scroller, yeah
14:10:46 <|amethyst> hm, that sounds good
14:11:03 <aidanh> I'm not really sure of the intended semantics of using MEL_TITLE in this way
14:11:06 <|amethyst> MEL_END_OF_SECTION
14:11:09 <aidanh> seemed a bit magical
14:11:27 <aidanh> aka hacky
14:11:33 <aidanh> Ok, that'd do it
14:11:36 <|amethyst> yeah, I think the semantics of MEL_TITLE previously were just "make it bold white"
14:12:58 <|amethyst> maybe there was a bit more than that, but when floor item selection was added, the intent of using MEL_TITLE was just "mark it as a header in a more significant way than MEL_SUBTITLE"
14:13:31 <aidanh> I see
14:14:01 <aidanh> It's only formatted_scroller that has this special behaviour for sections, right?
14:15:58 <|amethyst> I dunno
14:16:34 <|amethyst> yeah
14:16:45 <|amethyst> !tag formatted_scroller::page_down
14:16:46 <Sequell> git tag formatted_scroller::page_down # you're it!
14:17:05 <|amethyst> hm
14:17:11 <|amethyst> what's the command
14:17:41 <amalloy> i dunno, the command you ran seemed to work pretty well depending on your intention
14:17:41 <|amethyst> well, I wanted a web link :)
14:17:47 <amalloy> !source formatted_scroller::page_down
14:17:48 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/menu.cc#L2020
14:17:52 <|amethyst> oh, right, source
14:25:51 <aidanh> |amethyst, fixed in pr 626
14:28:06 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/626 * 0.21-a0-398-gb73d497: Move MEL_TITLE sectioning to MEL_END_OF_SECTION 10(20 minutes ago, 3 files, 18+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b73d49748b86
15:36:07 <Cheibriados> [r]ead scrolls menu nonexistent/unusable 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11263 by Le_Nerd
15:36:25 <advil> guess maybe that's the same thing?
15:36:42 <advil> aidanh: what were the conditions to replicate that?  I tried a bunch after you mentioned it and couldn't
15:37:42 <aidanh> advil: Yeah, probably the same; it's triggered by there being items on the ground that can be chosen
15:38:06 <advil> ahh, the ground items strike again
15:38:27 <advil> by this point I should know to always test with ground items
15:41:21 <aidanh> ground items are a relatively recent addition, right?
15:41:42 <advil> yeah, not too old
15:44:50 <advil> %git 1a704dc0d
15:44:50 <Cheibriados> 07Naruni02 {wheals} * 0.19-a0-354-g1a704dc: Drink and read items on the floor. 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 4 files, 218+ 64-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a704dc0d850
15:46:31 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/627 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/627
15:46:31 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/627 * 0.21-a0-397-ga69fae6: Fix issue orders prompt when not berserk 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a69fae6586da
15:47:18 <advil> aidanh: re mailmap, when you said the same as now, would you rather mailmap list "Aidan Holm", "aidanholm", or "aidanh"?
15:47:37 <aidanh> advil: Aidan Holm, I guess
15:49:35 <advil> (tbh I'm not really sure why it would matter if you're not using a nick, but I thought I'd check)
15:55:32 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-398-g2ec2765: Update mailmap and credits 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ec27657597d
16:01:08 <aidanh> :) thanks
16:22:00 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-398-g2ec2765 (34)
17:27:07 <Napkin> Oh noes, my high elf is gone!?
18:01:46 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-398-g2ec2765 (34)
18:02:51 <rchandra> !isonline cjr console
18:03:01 <Sequell> 3 days, 33 minutes, 50 seconds since last activity (cjr console)
18:51:52 -!- eb__ is now known as eb_
18:56:59 <amalloy> re possible WJC changes, https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/77hj44/i_thought_i_had_made_a_mistake_getting_wu_jian/ showed up on reddit today. if we do change things it sounds like exploding bad guys by hand is fun enough to keep around in some other form
18:57:56 <|amethyst> I haven't been following the conversation, but I'd be happy including WJC as-is
18:59:41 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.21-a0-399-gde6fda0: Fix tiles message region resize behaviour 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de6fda0fe4e2
18:59:41 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.21-a0-400-g417d9d2: Move MEL_TITLE sectioning to MEL_END_OF_SECTION 10(5 hours ago, 3 files, 18+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/417d9d2c4b6e
18:59:53 <|amethyst> aidanh:  thanks for the fix!
19:06:39 <neizenel> which class(es) read the des files?
19:08:21 <neizenel> where does parsing occur?
19:11:26 <amalloy> it looks like it's mostly in maps.cc
19:15:00 <|amethyst> the parsing itself is in util/levcomp.ypp
19:15:38 <|amethyst> which turns it into a bunch of lua calls, which are implemented in l-dgn.cc
19:16:43 <|amethyst> which in turn call C++ code, mostly in mapdef.cc
19:17:26 <|amethyst> but probably also in maps.cc and dungeon.cc
19:18:35 <|amethyst> I guess some of those lua calls might be in other l-* files, but most of the .des ones are in l-dgn
19:21:45 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-400-g417d9d2 (34)
19:32:22 <neizenel> jeez
19:33:15 <neizenel> cpp -> bison -> lua -> cpp ?
19:35:08 <gammafunk> I think the current plan is to remove Wu and move heaven on earth to Usk
19:35:24 <gammafunk> And maybe look for something we could do with lunge, although what that would be is a bit less clear
19:36:27 <gammafunk> as for exploding bad guys, check out usks grand finale, already in the game!
19:45:49 <alexjurkiewicz> god with grand finale AND heaven on earth?
20:35:46 <advil> !source player::adjusted_shield_penalty
20:35:46 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.cc#L5688
20:36:02 <advil> does that return formula make any sense?
20:36:28 <advil> are the parenthesis right?
20:38:51 <amalloy> advil: it doesn't seem totally nonsensical, but to say if it's right we'd have to know what the intent is
20:39:58 <amalloy> it is strange that the * 10 and / 10 don't seem to cancel out
20:40:18 <advil> yeah, that's what's puzzling me (well among the general wtfness of ev calculation)
20:40:24 <amalloy> but so much of crawl's number-crunching is so arbitrary that i can't say for sure that it's wrong
20:40:58 <amalloy> i guess if they did cancel out it would make even less sense
20:41:08 <amalloy> since foo*10/10 is not doing anything clever
20:42:03 <advil> well, you might do something like that (though not that) to avoid precision loss
20:44:26 <amalloy> yes, you might write (foo + (bar * 10)) / 10 to achieve (foo/10 + bar)
20:44:48 <amalloy> which seems sorta like what it's doing here
20:46:05 <advil> hmm maybe
20:46:20 <advil> also I have no idea why that function has to be part of actor and monster
20:46:26 <alexjurkiewicz> hellmonk: speedrun mode reveals timed portals
20:49:12 <hellmonk> alexjurkiewicz: yes, I'm aware
20:49:12 <Sequell> hellmonk: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
20:56:20 <alexjurkiewicz> really enjoying speedrun mode in general though,
20:56:27 <alexjurkiewicz> (eom)
20:58:48 <gammafunk> ug
20:58:58 <gammafunk> why not just make formicids large
20:59:11 <gammafunk> player_shield_racial_factor() seems a bad thing to have exist
20:59:28 <gammafunk> rather the formicid-only adjustment does
21:01:39 <amalloy> because bugs are small, gammafunk
21:01:53 <gammafunk> they're not! they're huge and gross!!!
21:02:31 <amalloy> don't remind me. i woke up this weekend with a huge-ass spider on my hand, but it turned out to be just a remnant of some dream
21:02:31 <gammafunk> I don't think that would even put any weird restrictions on Fo if we did that
21:02:48 <gammafunk> thank goodness, it could have been the trans-dimensional hellspider
21:09:36 <gammafunk> MarvinPA: do you think the formicid exception for player_shield_racial_factor() is a problem? It seems to me that Fo could either not get a bonus or could just be made a large species.
21:09:54 <gammafunk> !apt fo
21:09:54 <Sequell> Fo: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: 1, Bows: -2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 3, Shields: 2, UC: 0, Splcast: 0, Conj: -1, Hexes: 2, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: 3, Inv: 2, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: 0, MP: 0
21:10:39 <gammafunk> they already have a very good shield apt and are incentivized to train shields for other reasons
21:11:02 <Floodkiller> if Fo gets made a large species, you bring back the issue from their introduction where most Fo just went with GSCs instead of bothering with shields
21:11:13 <gammafunk> no
21:11:21 <gammafunk> large species does not imply ability to use GC/GSC
21:11:26 <gammafunk> naga and centaurs are large
21:12:12 <Floodkiller> oh, whoops
21:12:17 <Floodkiller> well, do they still take an EV hit?'
21:12:17 <gammafunk> large is just a size factor use for evasion/shield penalties and melee in water
21:12:26 <advil> til that entropy weavers are formicids
21:12:28 <gammafunk> they would take an EV hit if we made them large, yes
21:12:36 <gammafunk> advil: no! they used to be though
21:12:40 <gammafunk> that was reverted
21:12:47 <advil> oh heh
21:12:58 <advil> I was just scanning through old commit messages, guess I missed the revert
21:12:59 <gammafunk> is there some reference in the source to that still?
21:13:01 <gammafunk> ah, yeah
21:13:14 <advil> %git 9a20582491d1faf1c514505fb416b674ec8ee87f
21:13:14 <Cheibriados> 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-3273-g9a20582: Remove Formicid giant club wielding, reduce shield penalties, apt tweaks 10(3 years, 7 months ago, 5 files, 19+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9a20582491d1
21:13:25 <gammafunk> %git 30c882ec26c6ee
21:13:25 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.19-a0-1087-g30c882e: Don't flavour entropy weavers as being formicids 10(1 year, 2 months ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30c882ec26c6
21:13:53 <advil> there must be some other stuff that making them large would do
21:14:00 <gammafunk> ??large
21:14:01 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled large in my learndb.
21:14:02 <gammafunk> ??size
21:14:03 <Sequell> size factor[1/2]: For evasion purposes: spider form and bat form are tiny (factor 6), spriggans and felids are little (factor 4), halflings and kobolds are small (factor 2), trolls ogres centaurs and nagas are large (factor -2), hydraform is big (-4), and dragonform is huge (factor -8).
21:14:07 <gammafunk> ??size[2
21:14:08 <Sequell> size[2/7]: The following weapons are 1-handed for all species: Club, whip, mace, flail, demon whip, holy scourge, dagger, quick blade, short sword, rapier, falchion
21:14:26 <geekosaur> huh, I missed that one too. (weavers not being formicids any more)
21:14:36 <gammafunk> the main effects are the hit to EV, the reduction in shield penalty, and the ability to melee in water without penalty
21:14:45 <gammafunk> I'm not aware of any other gameplay effects
21:14:46 <advil> yeah, it does impact ev
21:15:21 <gammafunk> so their losing some EV would be significant, but that tends to have the most effect early on
21:15:22 <advil> !source _player_evasion_size_factor
21:15:23 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.cc#L2044
21:15:28 <gammafunk> when they haven't trained dodge and possibly don't have a shield
21:15:28 <elliptic> also protection from constriction from some enemies I think?
21:15:33 <gammafunk> right, that's true
21:15:48 <gammafunk> but obviously that's a pretty minor effect
21:15:48 <elliptic> yes
21:17:09 <elliptic> less minor than the water-meleeing thing after we remove water though! (weren't you talking about removing water the other day?)
21:17:18 <gammafunk> me?!
21:17:36 <gammafunk> I would never remove interesting dungeon features for exciting vaults
21:17:48 <elliptic> yes, I'm pretty sure you agreed to remove water if I said the magic words
21:17:55 <gammafunk> ah, that may be
21:17:57 <gammafunk> but you wouldn't do that
21:18:29 <elliptic> no, removing water would only make the game about 1.6 times better, not the full 2x better
21:19:05 <gammafunk> right, if it's not at least a full integer value of improvement, it would be a bad change
21:19:11 <elliptic> anyway I can't think of any serious issues with making Fo large but maybe there is something
21:19:34 <elliptic> I know this was discussed at some point in the past, possibly the flavor police just disliked it
21:19:55 <gammafunk> I imagine the EV hit would be noticeable early on? but that's when Fo are pretty strong
21:19:57 <elliptic> I don't mind the current situation personally though
21:20:29 <elliptic> players don't know how any of this stuff works regardless
21:21:09 <gammafunk> hrm, I suppose the player's actual size isn't really shown in-game is it
21:21:51 <gammafunk> how are players even supposed to know about no melee penalties in water...or skill levels for shield penalties for that matter
21:22:11 <gammafunk> ok, shield penalties are shown in the item desc
21:22:14 <elliptic> yes
21:22:56 <elliptic> the thing about size is that we have multiple different types of size
21:23:11 <elliptic> and it is sort of confusing and also not that exciting
21:23:18 <gammafunk> you mean monster size vs. player size?
21:23:28 <gammafunk> Those well-adapted to water can swim
21:23:28 <gammafunk> through it; other creatures can wade through it slowly. Non-swimmers will
21:23:28 <gammafunk> occasionally fail to attack in melee when wading through shallow water,
21:23:29 <gammafunk> although large creatures are able to keep their balance and avoid fumbling.
21:23:41 <elliptic> no, I mean torso size vs body size or whatever it is
21:24:08 <elliptic> monster size is even worse since it affects very few things, I wish it didn't exist at all
21:24:13 <gammafunk> oh, does torso size just dictate whether you have deformed body?
21:24:45 <elliptic> possibly? I get confused by which types of size affect which things
21:24:55 <elliptic> there's also whatever determines which weapons you can wield
21:25:15 <elliptic> and which ones are 2-handed
21:25:22 <gammafunk> ah, torso size influences weapons, yes
21:25:42 <Yermak> oh, size discussion. Related bug: large monsters don't get movement penalty in water, while large player species do.
21:26:22 <elliptic> are you sure they are the same "large"?
21:26:39 <gammafunk> @?naga
21:26:39 <Gretell> naga (03N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 5 | HP: 23-32 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 303(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 161 | Sp: spit poison (d10) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Large | Int: human.
21:26:49 <Yermak> Ogre monsters move throguh water with no delay.
21:26:53 <elliptic> @?ogre
21:26:53 <Gretell> ogre (07O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 23-32 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Dam: 17 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 119 | Sz: Large | Int: human.
21:26:57 <elliptic> @?stone giant
21:26:58 <Gretell> stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-102 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 1422 | Sz: Giant | Int: human.
21:27:10 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:27:11 <gammafunk> right, large player species still get slow water movement
21:27:17 <elliptic> yeah
21:27:33 <elliptic> sounds inconsistent but monsters cheat in a bunch of ways anyway
21:27:48 <Yermak> I once tried to get rid of ogre on my back by luring it into shallow water.
21:28:32 <gammafunk> ok, I see
21:28:58 <gammafunk> I was thinking attacking with water caused added delay (like how it adds delay to movement)
21:29:05 <gammafunk> but it doesn't do that, it causes fumbling
21:29:17 <gammafunk> since that has a message, I guess that's how we communicate the effect to players
21:29:42 <gammafunk> we do tell them that "large species" won't have the penalty but we don't tell them if their species is large
21:30:40 <gammafunk> so I guess the formicid shield thing is not so terrible as long as these size issues are not all that well communicated or sane in the first place
22:30:55 <tcsc> are github PRs the best way to submit patches? i wrote one that adds an init.txt option for you to not auto-butcher if you have more than some number of chunks in your inventory
22:31:28 <alexjurkiewicz> yep, and then hang out here in case people want to chat. most traffic is USTZ daylight/prime
22:31:55 <tcsc> sgtm
22:34:21 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
22:39:25 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/628 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/628
22:39:25 <Cheibriados> 03zuurr02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/628 * 0.21-a0-401-g9cd03b9: Add auto_butcher_max_chunks option 10(14 minutes ago, 3 files, 13+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9cd03b9ca609
22:56:32 -!- illusion is now known as Guest98778
23:23:22 <gammafunk> amalloy: advil: I was thinking of deleting this https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/77j568/does_anyone_else_have_a_strong_sexual_attraction/
23:23:58 <gammafunk> I'm not sure how we've handled user moderation on the reddit historically (rules are looser than on tavern)
23:24:14 <gammafunk> but at a minimum that post should probably be removed
23:25:41 <gammafunk> I've removed the post, but if we wanted to warn the user or anything like that, wanted to check with others first
23:51:35 -!- WalkerBoh is now known as Walker
23:52:44 <Brannock> I'd only warn if he kept doing it
23:52:57 <Brannock> But yeah that definitely is a post that should be gone