00:01:53 <Cheibriados> 03johnstein02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/615 * 0.21-a0-276-g27c248f: Remove an unused parameter from a function. 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/27c248faea64
00:01:53 <Cheibriados> 03johnstein02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/615 * 0.21-a0-277-gf2c8659: Invert and simplify logic for a function 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2c8659ebf86
02:09:51 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
02:45:37 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-273-g0785366
03:11:34 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-273-g0785366 (34)
03:46:18 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos
11:36:16 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
12:23:20 <Pinkbeast> I just killed Duvessa and heard a "distant wail of despair", but Dowan was in LOS. I wonder if this is expected behaviour? Dowan was at the very edge of froggo LOS and I thought this might be a factor.
12:23:54 <Pinkbeast> Err. Ignore this last, I confused myself.
12:24:01 <Pinkbeast> Sorry.
12:44:22 -!- Tarara is now known as Taraiph
13:04:51 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-273-g0785366 (34)
14:07:20 <minmay> Pinkbeast: that was me
14:18:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
14:18:42 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
15:48:54 <Yermak_> "Annotate level on other end of current stairs?"
15:48:55 <Yermak_> In my opinion this is interface screw. I found myself pressing 'n' much more often than 'Y'.
15:58:12 <gammafunk> I wouldn't call that an interface screw (which is when the game does something like mara's old mislead), but maybe just a UI problem
15:58:20 <gammafunk> The game is actually trying to be helpful there
15:58:59 <gammafunk> I also tend to want to annotation the current level, but I suppose that was added because going back up the stairs to annotation a bad level you just escaped is also pretty common
16:07:13 <ProzacElf> fwiw, i think the way it is done currently is the "safer" way to do it
16:07:15 <ProzacElf> rather than forcing the player to go back to the dangerous level to annotate it
16:07:41 <ProzacElf> although i frequently wind up just going back to a level when i was like "oh, i should annotate that"
16:07:51 <ProzacElf> and then i have to deal with the prompt either way
16:11:33 <gammafunk> ProzacElf: you're not actually force though
16:11:42 <gammafunk> X then ] will take you to the level below in map mode
16:11:47 <gammafunk> there you can annotate with !
16:11:54 <gammafunk> a lot of players don't know about that though
16:11:58 <ProzacElf> oh, i didn't know you could annotate that way
16:12:08 <ProzacElf> i knew how to do map mode that way
16:12:26 <gammafunk> yeah you can visit any level in the game and annotate it from map mode
16:12:30 <ProzacElf> good to know
16:12:46 <ProzacElf> but if i didn't know you could annotate it, it's probably a majority of players that also don't know
16:12:57 <ProzacElf> probably a lot don't even know you can look at other levels that way
16:13:10 <gammafunk> yes I suspect most players don't even know about X ]/[
16:14:56 <elliptic> I like the current annotation interface
16:15:25 <gammafunk> it is very easy to just move off the stair
16:15:44 <gammafunk> well, I guess it's also easy to just say 'N' to the prompt as well
16:15:52 <gammafunk> but if you're used to it, you can move off stair before annotating
16:16:04 <elliptic> I know about X[/] and even XG to annotate and I use them too, but it is pretty convenient to not have to do that in this situation
16:17:06 <gammafunk> gozag bribing also works similarly, asking if you want to bribe the branch at the stair destination
16:17:18 <gammafunk> One game I mashed through that prompt without realizing for some reason
16:17:39 <gammafunk> Didn't realize until a bit later in the orb run that I had given the draconians free gold
16:17:59 <elliptic> I didn't know that gozag bribe works like that, IMO that is bad
16:18:16 <gammafunk> It does prompty you, as I recall
16:18:16 <Yermak_> Players not willing to learn game commands isn't an excuse for bad UI.
16:18:21 <gammafunk> I just didn't pay attention :(
16:18:27 <elliptic> Yermak_: it's good UI though
16:18:31 <elliptic> saves a lot of keypresses
16:18:36 <Yermak_> How?
16:19:15 <Yermak_> Using 'X' '[' '!' instead of '!' 'y' is one press more.
16:19:22 <Yermak_> And it can be used not from staires.
16:19:26 <Yermak_> stairs*
16:19:27 <elliptic> you also have to get out of the X menu iirc
16:19:38 <Yermak_> ok, true, 2 more
16:19:40 <elliptic> but one keypress is still one keypress saved
16:19:54 <Yermak_> You also can annotate the dangerous floor while you're there
16:20:08 <elliptic> yes, but often people are more busy surviving it
16:20:15 <Yermak_> And it's one more keypress in case you want to annotate this floor and standing on stairs!
16:20:18 <Yermak_> which is important
16:20:25 <elliptic> there's no actual gain from annotating it while you are on it
16:20:36 <elliptic> since it will only prompt you when you try to re-enter it
16:20:47 <Yermak_> I find myself doing the last thing much much more often then the former.
16:20:52 <elliptic> I think it is pretty rare I want to annotate the current floor while standing on stairs
16:21:09 <elliptic> and much more common that I leave and then decide to annotate
16:21:31 <elliptic> but when I do want to annotate the current floor while standing on stairs, it is literally one extra keypress
16:22:18 <Yermak_> After I've done exploring the floor, I often annotate it there are monsters left (excluded) or runed doors.
16:22:20 <elliptic> perhaps I've simply trained myself to leave levels before annotating them but I think that isn't a bad thing
16:22:31 <Yermak_> if there are*
16:22:52 <elliptic> Yermak_: and how often are you randomly standing on stairs at the end of autoexplore?
16:23:14 <Yermak_> usually I go to stairs and only then do it.
16:23:21 <Yermak_> Bad habit I guess
16:23:28 <gammafunk> Perhaps the problem is that levels are just too dangerous and we shouldn't need an annotation system!
16:23:44 <elliptic> if the current behavior really bothers you, it should be possible to automatically say no to the prompt via lua
16:24:00 <Yermak_> yes, I guess it is possible
16:24:27 <Yermak_> But when I started this conversation I thought about curing the bad UI, not helping myself
16:24:52 <elliptic> (by adding a "c_answer_prompt(prompt)" function in your rcfile that returns false if prompt is the prompt in question)
16:25:02 <Yermak_> Now, when it's not obvious that it's bad I guess I'll do it, thanks.
16:25:10 <gammafunk> _There is a gate to the Realm of Zot here.
16:25:10 <gammafunk> Use which ability? (? or * to list)
16:25:10 <gammafunk> Do you want to bribe the denizens of the Realm of Zot?
16:25:10 <gammafunk> Do you want to bribe the denizens of the Depths?
16:25:19 <gammafunk> It does a serial prompt
16:25:25 <gammafunk> or however you'd call that
16:25:39 <gammafunk> That probably is just a bad UI
16:25:42 <elliptic> gammafunk: I don't like it in this case because it is a functional change
16:25:55 <elliptic> and nobody would ever know about it unless they try the ability on branch stairs
16:26:00 <gammafunk> right
16:26:06 <ProzacElf> i think my only complaint about the annotation UI is sometimes i get in a hurry and press the wrong one
16:26:10 <gammafunk> it has gameplay relevance but it's not obvious you can do it
16:26:18 <ProzacElf> which is a problem easily solvable by "me reading what the prompt actually says"
16:26:29 <ProzacElf> instead of just mashing keys
16:26:31 <ProzacElf> as per my usual
16:26:46 <gammafunk> my biggest annotation gripe is that you can't tie them to specific locations on the map, like sif altars
16:27:01 <gammafunk> so it's weird when I enter the level and it says sif <3 <3 <3 XOXOXOXOXOX :)
16:27:09 <gammafunk> but I don't see the altar, it's not as immersive
16:27:21 <Yermak_> Something that is bad initially because of people's habits but is good eventually should be done, imo.
16:28:35 <Yermak_> Btw, are there any punctuation marks missing in my last statement? I feel like it is hard to read without them.
16:29:22 <gammafunk> I didn't quite understand your meaning
16:29:38 <gammafunk> But I don't think it was due to punctuation
16:30:45 <gammafunk> Are you saying something about how the UI should accommodate people's habits more?
16:31:11 <Yermak_> If you hesitate to do a good change because it will screw people's habits, you shouldn't, just do it.
16:31:36 <geekosaur> I'd set off 'but is good generally' fwiw </grammar nerd>
16:31:50 <Yermak_> thank you
16:52:42 <completenoob> hey, i'm trying to build crawl (tiles) w/ msys2/mingw64 but i keep getting this error when trying to make. https://pastebin.com/tbr8ZnCf
16:53:08 <completenoob> building the terminal version worked fine.
17:02:23 <geekosaur> https://stackoverflow.com/questi
17:02:24 <geekosaur> er
17:02:38 <geekosaur> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42560435/is-the-current-version-of-mingw64-incompatible-with-the-sdl-libraries-compiler
17:03:13 <geekosaur> apparently recent mingw broke something
17:09:49 <Cheibriados> Uskayaw's Line Pass is in fact Controlled Blink 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11228 by Yermak
17:09:56 <Yermak_> This is really cheat ^
17:10:04 <gammafunk> hah
17:10:39 -!- Yermak_ is now known as Yermak
17:11:28 <Yermak> When Usk was launched, I tried stuff like this and was denied to.
17:13:25 <elliptic> yeah that definitely didn't work originally
17:13:37 <elliptic> I wonder when it broke
17:21:37 <completenoob> i got tiles to compile now. thanks for help!
17:57:25 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
18:25:21 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
18:42:38 <advil> wow, line pass is pretty broken
19:35:56 <Cheibriados> Aborting "Really passwall" costs a turn. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11229 by Yermak
20:37:25 <johnstein> ooh that one sounds like it might be simple
20:42:24 <|amethyst> johnstein:  hm
20:42:32 <|amethyst> johnstein:  what might be a problem
20:43:01 <|amethyst> johnstein:  I haven't tested the behaviour, but I think there's a reason for it taking a turn
20:43:07 <|amethyst> should test what happens when:
20:43:32 <|amethyst> @#?#.   where ? is unknown and . is excluded
20:43:53 <|amethyst> my concern is that it might reveal that ? is in fact wall and not floor
20:44:01 <|amethyst> in which case it shouldn't be free
20:44:12 <|amethyst> of course
20:44:15 <|amethyst> that's the usual case
20:44:20 <|amethyst> because you can't see through walls
20:44:41 <|amethyst> but in some small fraction of cases there might or might not be a passage there
20:44:43 <johnstein> ah so really the player is getting a free scan
20:45:10 <|amethyst> I'm not sure how big a deal it is, since it does require rather specific geometry
20:46:24 <johnstein> I suppose I'll work on the next newbie/simple one on mantis.
20:46:30 <johnstein> !bug 10633
20:46:31 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10633
20:48:12 <|amethyst> you could work on that implementable I posted about purple chunks
20:48:27 <|amethyst> I didn't flag it "simple", but it's simpler than some of the ones you have fixed
20:48:59 <|amethyst> !BUG 11226
20:48:59 <Sequell> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11226
21:28:49 <johnstein> |amethyst: that one looks interesting. I'll take a stab at it