00:24:48 minmay: yeah it's better if Dg remains Dg but we have precendent for dealing with species renames in all relevant places, so it's not The Worst 00:26:23 checkers: I for real do think the dissonance between player golem and every golem monster is gonna be kind of awkward 00:27:09 not a big enough deal for me to think definitely dont rename it but I think it would be worth bikeshedding it a little longer 00:27:09 yeah 00:27:16 rename them frankensteins 00:27:24 i agree. Maybe Flesh Golem or something is better 00:27:28 n1: frankensteins should be undead 00:27:46 no, "Its alive" is an important line in many frankenstein movies 00:27:49 should they? I think frankenstein('s monster) was brought back to life 00:28:04 I mean, you can do it that way I guess 00:28:05 !makewords Fr 00:28:13 FrAE FrAK FrAM FrAr FrAs FrBe FrCK FrCj FrEE FrEn FrFE FrFi FrGl FrHu FrIE FrMo FrNe FrSk FrSu FrTm FrVM FrWn FrWr FrWz 00:29:40 rereanimated dead guy is pretty close to a zombie and its often portrayed similarly in various media though 00:30:16 FrEE is pretty good, maybe worth 00:30:39 so I can streak TrIE FrEE TeEn KoCK 00:31:04 that would be the case 00:31:21 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-104-g7b58145 (34) 00:33:01 name them euphorics, give them fedora mutation 00:33:08 !makewords Eu 00:33:16 EuAE EuAK EuAM EuAr EuAs EuBe EuCK EuCj EuEE EuEn EuFE EuFi EuGl EuHu EuIE EuMo EuNe EuSk EuSu EuTm EuVM EuWn EuWr EuWz 00:36:01 I don't even understand what problem would be solved by renaming them 00:36:41 People will always complain that they don't have enough gimmicks regardless of renaming 00:36:41 gammafunk: a bunch of people will get mad about it 00:36:56 the problem is people not being mad 00:36:57 Seems like if the "being of your status worships no god" line isn't convincing that line should be made better 00:37:25 idea: put your character name again where god goes 00:37:30 or put of yourself 00:37:46 gammafunk the dgsu of gammafunk ****** 00:38:14 whatstostopmefrombecomingagodboys 00:39:14 (I'm aware that this would probably fuck up queries really bad) 00:45:33 if we rename dg to go we get "the gogls do nothing" 00:46:00 that's it 00:46:12 you're not allowed to even have an opinion on dg rename, or dg at all 00:46:16 unless you've won dgwn 00:46:18 that's the new rule 00:46:39 aight give me a couple days and i'll get back to u 00:46:40 crawl as directed by the japanese...? 00:46:48 w/ a fresh new take on the current scenario 00:47:01 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 00:47:37 wait... what if we call them demigolems 00:47:50 then we can explain away all discrepancies with regular golems 00:48:04 and the abbreviation stays the same...!!! 00:48:22 i have won dgwn and i say either dont rename them or rename them something that starts with deg 00:48:22 golemtaur, its bottom half is a atheist golem and its top half is a human 00:48:39 deep golem 00:48:48 dank golem 00:49:10 they start with foul stench 00:49:12 gods are like the man or w/e and they arent down with that 00:49:14 420 00:49:19 blaze it 00:49:22 actually i changed my mind, anything d.*g.* is fine 00:49:28 so dag or ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) would both work 00:49:29 2 the dungeon ceiling 00:50:12 I guess Weedl0rd would have to be abandoned though, rip 00:50:20 !lg * won dgwn s=name 00:50:21 108 games for * (won dgwn): 3x MackTheKnife, 2x NicuTudor, 2x bupper, 2x minmay, 2x ksagri, 2x rax, 2x Kellhus, 2x MrPlanck, 2x bazoo, PurpleRed, WeiSong, wheals, Yermak, yobbo, Zalbag, zkyp, Zooty, 4Hooves2Appendages, bh, bicci, BirdoPrey, Blakmane, bmfx, busb, caco, casual, Charmandara, Chudface, circular, clouded, cobra, comborobin, damdam, dck, Demise, Demo, dgwnrobin, Doesnt, ducks72, fazisi,... 00:50:30 oh 00:50:36 i guess i have to step up my dgwn win count 00:50:39 !makewords ma 00:50:47 maAE maAK maAM maAr maAs maBe maCK maCj maEE maEn maFE maFi maGl maHu maIE maMo maNe maSk maSu maTm maVM maWn maWr maWz 00:51:33 gammafunk: I asked MPA something similar earlier, but do you know where a write-up or breakdown of the dev perspective on Dg might be? 00:51:50 mane mask mack maam 00:52:03 mask is really good, the others are ok 00:52:06 notbad 00:52:25 high quality words boys 00:52:34 mask would be ideal if nyarlathotep was a god 00:52:51 "a mask of nyarlathotep" 00:53:05 just don't rename them 00:53:14 I think the gist of it is simply that playing as a strong race but without a god ends up being different and an interesting limitation 00:53:15 I'm mad at the PR 00:53:25 it's a really shitty PR, yes 00:53:56 thank u 00:54:00 as opposed to simply giving demigods some kind of gimmick that feels flavorful but generally doesn't achieve any new gameplay 00:54:21 I think I like them a bit more each time I play them 00:54:21 i would expect nothing less from the great alex jurkiewecz (sp) 00:54:37 you're welcome nicko 00:54:48 stalin did nothing wrong 00:55:03 jurkiewecz's patches jumped the shark when he nerfed putting goblin brains in walls 00:55:07 (you can post that in the rlg thread to prove im a communist) 00:55:15 without brain-in-walls tech there was no meaningful decisions left 00:55:21 and yeah I'm gonna say it 00:55:27 it lead to a lot of no-brainers 00:55:40 for that joke my friend you get 20 years gulag 00:55:57 hellmonk i know you're a drumpfer lad 00:56:02 lol 00:56:03 hellmonk: do you want to talk about the weekly challenge idea 00:56:16 not rn, I'm too busy being lazy and listening to bad music 00:56:20 kk 00:56:30 plus I need to get hellcrawl back on cbro before I do anything with it 00:56:44 what happened to your meme channel on irc 00:56:47 crawl-forks 00:56:48 i can't believe you abandon CPO as your spiritual home just because of trivial concerns like latency 00:57:02 have to follow my playerbase man 00:57:03 or was it something like crawl-knives 00:57:20 crawl-forks still exists as the hottest no activity crawl channel on irc in 2017 00:57:40 remember that person who was going to create the greatest fork 00:57:42 rip circus animals 00:57:44 hellcrawl is still up to date on gnollcrawl.tk 00:57:46 and started with a discord server 00:57:58 checkers: yeah and then he didnt do anything and gave up 00:58:03 !makewords Fl 00:58:09 fucking lol 00:58:11 FlAE FlAK FlAM FlAr FlAs FlBe FlCK FlCj FlEE FlEn FlFE FlFi FlGl FlHu FlIE FlMo FlNe FlSk FlSu FlTm FlVM FlWn FlWr FlWz 00:58:28 dcss-ca has some legitimately worthwhile ideas but the actual gameplay from what I've heard is garbage 00:58:38 learn add advice FlEE 00:58:49 btw wandstacking for 0.21 is a good and noble design goal 00:59:13 Florida Man Gladiator 00:59:34 hellmonk: depending on the difficulty and xp mode, you could reach XL34 by lair 00:59:39 (not a joke) 00:59:56 I just remember hearing about wild magic halflings oneshotting everything with magic dart 01:00:19 yeah, all spells had 999 spell power cap and the max skill level was removed 01:00:20 or maybe it was oneshotting everything with some highlevel spell and doing like 40 damage with magic dart, point is thats fucking stupid 01:01:47 it had some cool ideas. There was an XP mode which gave you XP only for entering a new level 01:02:02 yeah, like I said, it had some good stuff in there 01:02:20 damage interrupting stair usage, wand stacking 01:02:39 I lifted a lot of code for both of those things into hellcrawl 01:02:57 do you have a master readme of the top changes from vanilla to hell btw? 01:02:57 it also had pseudo-euclidean movement, which was a great way to show why euclidean movement sucks 01:03:09 CanOfWorms: that was removed p. quick 01:03:19 ??dcss-ca 01:03:19 dcss-ca ~ dcssca[1/4]: Fork of Crawl maintained by jeremygurr. Features include 9-lived felids, the return of djinni, and 104 inventory slots. Try it out at https://crawl.project357.org/ 01:03:24 ??dcss-ca[2 01:03:24 dcss-ca ~ dcssca[2/4]: https://github.com/jeremygurr/dcssca 01:03:29 not really, I have the thread op and then my individual update posts 01:03:37 hellmonk: i was wondering how much work it would take to reimplement hellcrawl on top of the latest crawl version 01:03:39 I should prob throw something better together 01:03:47 at least the important 80% 01:04:18 checkers: prob a lot because I don't merge everything and my code is hot garbage 01:04:26 lol 01:05:16 back on dcss-ca chat, if I ever force myself to start permabuffs I'm going to lift some of the summons costing max mp to sustain code for that 01:05:21 there's a lot of random stuff that'd be super hard, but it might be possible to implement linear dungeon as a patchset on top of vanilla 01:05:38 my implementation for linear dungeon is really hacky 01:05:54 there is probably a "right way" to do it 01:06:11 w/o butchering a bunch of des files 01:08:52 I guess if you cut the shortcuts and branching it's probably not that bad 01:11:42 you could definitely do about 120 damage a shot with magic dart 01:12:34 g.f.: So I guess the general stance is "win a few Dg-- not just one-- and then we can have a discussion" because the interesting thing Dg have going "can't be explained, only experienced". 01:12:39 Maybe I have more trouble getting a feel for this because I play Xom so much, which is about 2/3rds like playing without a god, but more dangerous. 01:12:54 01:13:18 There is some bitterness, but I would appreciate it if you ignore that, as it should fade. 01:13:41 Nivim: well I don't recall making any statement that someone need to play N games of Dg or anything like that 01:13:48 You didn't! 01:14:49 But I'm not sure if you can get the experience of "liking Dg more each time you play them" without winning more than one. 01:15:24 right, but that was simply describing my experience when playing Dg 01:15:36 when you asked for a description of why some devs like Dg 01:15:49 my response was "because I liked them more each time I play them" 01:16:01 it was that bit I said about them being strong but having an interesting limitation 01:16:22 sorry, my response *wasn't* "because I liked them more each time I play them" 01:17:03 as in that was not given as the reason why people tend to like Dg; it's not some masochism thing or anything like that 01:17:20 just that you get a strong species with a pretty profound limitation 01:17:20 (I'm trying to work out how this conflicts with any previous thing; give me a few minutes, please?) 01:18:12 there's no time limit on discussion, Nivim, just respond when you are able 01:18:21 Thank you. 01:18:37 anyhow, Dg have been in the game for quite a long time, and yeah experienced players have won them a bunch and find that they're pretty good 01:19:03 but obviously it's not universal sentiment or anything 01:33:51 checkers: for your vault, I think it might be improved if you never put the mask right next to the entry transporter 01:34:33 it's possible for it to place 3 tiles from the entry landing site 01:35:06 yeah. i can shuffle it to always be on the other side to the entrance 01:35:26 also I think this shuffle is wrong 01:37:35 this shuffle will have the entry transporter placed inside the vault 01:38:06 since P<>Q and then S<>R 01:38:45 so the entry transporter gets placed where Q is on the map and the exit destination gets place wherever R gets randomized to 01:38:51 but that's not what you'd want 01:39:35 I think you want just SHUFFLE: PS 01:40:03 if I understand what you're trying to do, which I think is to place the entrance transporter sometimes on P and sometimes on S 01:40:22 basically flipping on which side is the entry transporter and which is the exit transporter destination 01:40:42 maybe I gave you the wrong shuffle earlier when you asked about it 01:41:10 yes that's what i'm trying 01:41:14 the shuffle seems to work in testing 01:41:43 hrm, it shouldn't let me try 01:41:56 oh no 01:41:58 you're right 01:42:13 yeah it would place the entrance transporter inside the vault 01:42:25 which is deliciously cruel, but not great for gameplay 01:42:41 what those group shuffles do is 01:42:44 50% do nothing 01:42:52 50% of time swap P with Q and swap S with R 01:42:59 ohhhhh 01:43:16 i think i misread syntax.txt 01:43:22 so order of appearence of the glyph in each group matters 01:43:28 but yeah the shuffle you need is simpler 01:43:43 simply shuffle: PS 01:43:44 50% of time do nothing, 50% of time swap P and S 01:44:04 but then the place you arrive in the vault never changes, which I liked 01:44:26 you like it changing? 01:44:37 yeah in that case you can do a group shuffle 01:44:51 i just transposed 01:46:51 checkers: thing about that is the landing site is not visible 01:46:55 for some locations of R 01:47:08 which is a good thing to have 01:47:36 originally I wanted the exit to not be visible, but i guess an unknown entrance is good too 01:47:45 only the r that's midway between P and S would be visible 01:47:52 yep 01:48:11 yeah it's true you don't have to show it 01:48:19 so you can have a situation where you enter, walk around the corner and only see the exit once you get next to the artifact 01:48:21 the thing about that to realize is that they will use magic map to see it 01:48:29 the landing site, I mean 01:48:55 that'd be nice. I'd take "uses consumables" as a form of "upgraded lethality" 01:49:01 sure, well sounds like you know how to fix it either way 01:51:31 ok I give up. finally found visual studio 2012 on the older versions download page, but after logging in, it says it can't find any downloads for me. anyone recentely set up a dev environment on windows? 01:51:36 i added some screenshots to the PR to show what it looks like now 01:52:14 should transporter landing places be visible through magic mapping? 01:52:22 oh, my branch won't have those latest changes 01:52:27 yeah they should 01:52:37 wow...console screenshots 01:52:41 this is big 01:53:09 "Visual Studio 2012 is no longer available for download without an MSDN subscription." I suppose I missed out on all the fun. 01:54:03 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/567 * 0.21-a0-90-ga8d01dd: Fix a shuffle (gammafunk) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8d01dd46733 01:54:32 I generally do all my testing in console 01:54:33 trying to compile in visual studio? 01:54:43 trying to develop on my windows machine 01:54:48 mostly because I forget how to build tiles 01:54:58 make tiles or TILES=yes or hmm.... 01:56:13 gammafunk, I don't have to use visual studio. I assumed it would be a decent IDE to use. maybe I'll try the msysgit option 01:56:30 hrm 01:56:37 yeah I guess it would depend on what you wanted to develop 01:56:50 if it's crawl-related things then msysgit is nice 01:57:06 partly I just wanted a good IDE so I could jump through the code easier 01:57:52 I tried setting up cscope and ctags a few years ago and it just seemed super confusing and although I eventually got it to work I never got it so it would stay up to date 01:58:21 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-104-g7b58145 01:59:28 and yea, just crawl related things for now 02:01:57 well, if you're willing to learn vim, certainly that's good 02:02:07 I'm sure a lot of people use things like eclipse 02:02:16 I'm not sure what the best windows IDE for more general code editing is 02:02:56 atom 02:03:27 gammafunk, I know vim 02:03:35 I actually kinda like it 02:03:43 maybe I just need to learn to use vim better 02:12:36 (Hm, tried unpacking my whole thought process; result too long for public irc. I will /msg it, even if that has the consequence of causing a ping.) 02:12:49 pastebin is your friend 02:13:47 Limited ability to copy from terminal IRC client to websites, but I'll try that? 02:14:12 it would probably be better to post to somewhere like tavern 02:14:16 oh you wrote it out in the little box, nice 02:14:23 where you can get a discussion going and hear from other experienced players 02:16:32 johnstein use the t command 02:16:37 and use shift + * 02:16:39 become a vim pro 02:17:26 suomi: the one I really miss in other editors is being able to delete lines with d 02:17:47 most IDEs have vim bindings, and those always support d 02:17:58 often ^k 02:18:44 I'm looking at a random vim cheatsheet and I don't see your fancy commands 02:18:54 yeah, they will make you a pro 02:19:12 shift + * will go to any instances of whatever word your cursor is over 02:19:30 t is "up to this character", so for example dt_ will delete up to an underscore 02:19:39 ah 02:24:41 Not so sure about making a tavern account or attempting to post there; the example threads of seen there have been generally bad, and I wouldn't want to start a worse one because I couldn't figure out a topic myself. 02:24:52 Looks shorter outside the the little box; https://pastebin.com/BU16MSe0 02:25:18 s/of/I've/ 02:25:35 s/ide the/ide/ 02:28:01 checkers: do you prefer the Q landing site to be so close to the wall? 02:28:14 it might be nice to make it centered since monsters will inevitably congregate at that wall 02:28:32 it does sort of make the vault nastier to have it near the wall like that 02:29:11 there's also no randomization of numbers of monsters 02:30:14 the monster count is ok overall, but it might be nice to move one placement off each type of dragon 02:30:35 and then use something like NSUBST: - = 3:1 / 3:2 / 3:3 / 3:4 / 3:5 / *:. 02:30:37 er 02:30:38 oops 02:31:29 NSUBST: - = 2:1 / 2:2 / 2:3 / 6:123... / 3:4 / 3:5 / *:. 02:32:13 this is simple enough where you could do simple binomial for each type of dragon, which would make minmay happy, but I like having a reasonable minimum of things place 02:32:16 *placed 02:32:24 and you could obviously do variations like 02:32:51 NSUBST: - = 3:1 / 3:2 / 3:3 / 4:123... / 3:4 / 3:5 / 2:45.. / *:. 02:33:08 that one has the same min number of dragons, placing 0-4 extra, doing the same thing with the moths 02:33:17 but placing 0-2 extra of those 02:33:40 but 3 ghost moths is more than enough probably; the moths don't really need to be more present in the vault 02:33:52 oh and oops 02:33:55 that should be 02:34:11 NSUBST: - = 2:1 / 2:2 / 2:3 / 6=123... / 3:4 / 3:5 / *:. 02:34:15 or 02:34:27 NSUBST: - = 3:1 / 3:2 / 3:3 / 4=123... / 3:4 / 3:5 / 2=45.. / *:. 02:34:48 important do use = for that nsubst clauses for the randomized placement so that each one is independent 02:35:38 since 6:123... would mean chose any of 1 2 3 or . (50% .) and replace 6 instances with that specific choice 02:35:53 but you want it do be done independently for each of the 6, so use 6=123... 02:36:27 and of course you can use different weightings like 123...... to make it a lower chance that a dragon places etc 02:36:37 anyhow let me know what you think about any of that 02:54:38 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-104-g7b58145 03:02:03 gammafunk: i would prefer centered landing site but I wanted to move the mask further away 03:03:43 i am ambivalent about the monster density. I want the vault to be consistently difficult since you have good vision inside with two windows. Since the density is relatively high making the numbers variable doesn't seem that useful 03:05:11 well the mask being effectively a few tiles closer is going to be a lot less relevant than transporting directly into the center of 6 dragons 03:06:03 which is what happens if the landing site is adjacent to the wall 03:06:20 but the landing site is visible to the player in that case, so they're asking for it, I guess 03:06:47 it would probably play a bit better with a landing site that was way from the wall 03:06:47 s/way/away 03:07:04 yeah, I agree 03:07:26 and yeah the density change is a way of making it sometimes harder still, for the most part, but if you're happy with the monster count being fixed, that's fine 03:07:48 my happiness is proportional to the vault's kill rate 03:08:20 then I say leave the base monsters the same and add that 4=123... clause like I mentioned 03:08:43 actually, even moving the teleport landing one square off the wall is good, because monsters will see the player through the glass and move towards the window, making them definitely appear between the player and the wall 03:08:51 what happens if the transporter destination has a monster? 03:09:07 the monster is moved to a habitable square nearby 03:09:26 disappointed there's no telefrag 03:09:26 it is possible to place a transporter in such a way that this can't be done, in which case the player can't teleport 03:09:40 but you have to try to make a bad destination for this to happen 03:09:44 and vault makers shouldn't do that 03:10:00 s/teleport/use the transporter until the monster somehow moves off/ 03:10:42 checkers: you can also use something like draconian monk, draconian knight 03:11:00 for monsters in this vault 03:11:26 the current iteration has them. But I thought they were too easy 03:11:39 well monks are horrifying when they berserk 03:11:46 knights wouldn't do too much, it's true 03:11:58 @?draconian monk 03:11:58 red draconian monk (02q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 103-140 | AC/EV: 7/20 | Dam: 35, 20, 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire | XP: 1943 | Sp: searing breath (3d20) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 03:12:11 I had 'nonbase draconian' but I could get more specific 03:12:21 give them polearms for example might be scary with this density 03:12:37 can't think of a thematic reason for polearms though... 03:12:43 yeah I wouldn't use polearms 03:12:48 you have all sorts of breath attacks in there 03:12:54 maybe drac monks would be cool 03:12:58 fits the slaying theme 03:13:13 they can be yellow sometimes, which can be nasty 03:13:50 but yeah, if you want some more kills, whatever you do, maybe keep those base numbers but use 4 or 6 placements 03:13:59 for something like "50% of these become a dragon-like thing" 03:14:26 will increase the average a bit but put a nice range on the numbers 03:14:43 yellow drac monks would be pretty mean 03:14:53 but those stop using breath when they berserk, of course 03:14:56 @?golden dragon 03:14:56 golden dragon (08D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 86-126 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Dam: 40, 2009(claw), 2007(trample) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(180), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 4178 | Sp: b.fire (3d27) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], b.cold (3d27) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], poisonous cloud (3d11) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 03:15:30 they're not much different than a golden dragon in terms of melee, just more HP, less AC, and a different breath mechanic 03:15:36 so perhaps they're not actually all that interesting 03:16:30 fill all other tiles with toenail golems, the player can't move 03:17:11 it'd be cool if golden dragons had acidic breath 03:17:25 really confuse all those players who think poison magic includes acid 03:18:00 I play tested 50/50 moth of wrath/golden dragon 03:18:26 it was "can you carve a path through moths of wrath before your berserk wears off" 03:22:21 h, now I'm worried the destinatino portals in the corners are too defensible 03:22:21 only exposed to two tiles 03:23:21 let me come back to this tomorrow 09:34:26 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 09:51:27 maxonian (L17 KoHu) (Snake:1) 13:48:52 -!- jean__ is now known as Poroing 18:16:10 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-104-g7b58145 (34) 19:41:16 I hope I haven't made tavern mad about monster spellpower now 19:43:21 this would be different from normal how? 19:47:26 well you might get someone saying "HOW COME SATYRS HAVE 648 POWER CAUSE FEAR, IT ISN'T FAIR" 19:52:39 how much power does sentinel's mark have 20:11:31 satyrs are scary 20:26:31 -!- papa is now known as Guest48344 20:27:23 -!- Guest48344 is now known as mothman 20:33:36 hello 20:34:14 I was making a vault, but it doesn't work. I narrowed down the problem to this line: 20:34:28 MONS: kobold demonologist name:kobold_necromancer name_replace name_definite spells:cantrip;animate_dead;blink 20:34:38 anyone know what I did wrong? 20:35:21 spell spec is more complex now, I think. spell_name.rate.type ? 20:35:57 oh, damn :( no clue how to do it then 20:37:26 @??spec:hellbinder 20:37:26 Not a vault monster: hellbinder 20:37:33 oh, right... 20:38:16 @??spec:lunar statue 20:38:16 lunar statue: orange crystal statue name:lunar_statue n_rpl n_des spells:brain_feed.24.magical;draining_gaze.24.magical;lehudib's_crystal_spear.24.magical;shadow_creatures.48.magical col:lightmagenta tile:mons_zot_statue 20:40:27 @??spec:orc wizard 20:40:28 Not a vault monster: orc wizard 20:40:52 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt#L937 20:41:07 and it only shows it for vaults that use overrides like that, not for normal monsters 20:41:52 @??kobold demonologist name:kobold_necromancer name_definite spells:cantrip.25.wizard;animate_dead.50.wizard;blink.25.wizard 20:41:52 nice 20:41:52 kobold necromancer (06K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 32-45 | AC/EV: 4/13 | Dam: 4 | natural, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 369 | Sp: cantrip, animate dead, blink | Sz: small | Int: human. 20:41:58 thank you very much! 20:42:11 also while it is possible to rename monsters in vaults and redefine your spell sets, you shouldn't actually do it in vaults for the main game 20:42:12 thanks to you both 20:42:21 oh? 20:43:33 portal vaults (e.g. wizlabs) are pretty much anything goes; general vaults should not 'invent' new monsters 20:43:47 oh :( 20:43:51 vault monsters are generally ill-received and are gradually being removed from the main game 20:43:57 using them in Sprint maps is ok 20:44:16 ok, thanks for letting me know 20:44:21 a few of them survive in wizlabs (not other portal vaults) but that is mostly because of seniority 20:44:40 and yes, over time those special monsters are being changed into normal ones (as with my first attempt at the Hellbinder, which is now a normal monster) 20:45:08 if you'd like to suggest a new monster to add to the game, by all means do so of course - but make it a real, unique monster instead of a renamed vault monster 20:45:09 there goes my idea for a vault of Kiku Kobolds, I guess 20:45:11 haha 20:45:11 also, it's not just that, it's that renamed mosters behave somewhat oddly 20:45:15 would be my suggestion 20:45:35 gameguard (L21 DsWn) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Depths:3) 20:45:42 it interacts badly with corpses and derived undead, for example 20:45:59 (especially relevant in a necro vault!) 20:46:06 :o 20:46:19 definitely won't do it then 20:46:27 last time I checked, it also puts the monster's name over the monster's head in tiles, as if it were a unique, which is quite the eyesore 20:46:46 and yeah, one of the reasons not to do it is that it's not completely implemented 20:46:48 guess I'll settle for Makh Kobolds, though that's not as snappy 20:46:51 @??moon troll 20:46:51 moon troll (11T) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 75-117 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Dam: 35, 2509(claw), 2509(claw) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(140), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison | XP: 2743 | Sp: b.corrosive (3d21) | Sz: Big | Int: human. 20:47:36 here is a monster that was added just for a vault; you could do the same thing (although adding a new early-game monster, particularly one with a spell that monsters are no longer supposed to have, would probably be met with a lot of opposition) 20:48:00 mhm 20:48:40 if you do, at least give it bind souls instead of animate dead 20:49:20 thanks for the explanations 20:49:26 I'll just stick to making vaults with existing monsters 21:18:57 Wander: you could probably imply the kiku theme without needing to change the monsters 21:19:11 eg loads of corpses and a kiku altar 21:24:34 Yeah, I might do that 21:25:07 I was thinking about putting in a couple shadow imps, but... do they no longer cast animate dead? 21:25:40 I spawned one in wizmode but it just has pain 21:25:48 monsters never cast animate dead anymore, i think 21:25:56 gammafunk: next iteration of dragon vault is up 21:25:58 it was problematic as a monster spell 21:26:03 :( 21:26:37 you could add some perma zombies/skeletons/simulacrums 21:26:49 true 21:27:24 there's lots of ways to creatively hint at theme without custom monsters. like the minotaur beef jerky vault (what happened to that with the removal of beef jerky, anyway?) 21:27:37 !vault evilmike_butchery 21:27:37 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des#L3095 21:27:49 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/567 * 0.21-a0-91-g218a4ac: Various fixes 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/218a4ac7cfb0 21:27:52 sensible 21:28:16 or the indiana jones snake/hat/whip vault 21:28:24 we didn't need an archaeologist skeleton 21:29:24