00:00:12 <checkers> hellmonk: i would be all about weekly things. Especially if you implement them in the game
00:00:25 <hellmonk> what do you mean
00:00:30 <hellmonk> like, cheevos or sth?
00:00:32 <checkers> "this week, all unbranded attacks (yours included) do poison damage. have fun!"
00:00:46 <checkers> no, like unreal tournament mutations
00:00:50 <hellmonk> actually that could be kind of fun
00:00:55 <hellmonk> I'll think about it
00:01:15 <checkers> *mutator
00:02:10 <checkers> let me try to code up a hacky prototype
00:48:18 <checkers> hellmonk: qazlal is the opposite of annoying to play since you can't lure
00:48:33 <hellmonk> you have to stairdance a lot usually
00:48:39 <hellmonk> unless you are super diesel
00:49:00 <checkers> I guess i think more stairdancing is offset by even less luring
00:49:01 <hellmonk> but that chart is obv super subjective and i will probably feel differently in another 20 games
00:49:35 <checkers> i like the implication of the chart that crawl's god design space evenly fills up the chart along both axes. variety!
00:49:39 <gammafunk> I find qaz pretty annoying to play
00:50:02 <gammafunk> not that many players don't enjoy qaz, it's a fairly popular god
00:50:10 <gammafunk> but quite a lot find the god very tedious
00:50:17 <nikheizen> what chart is this
00:50:30 <nikheizen> yeah im not a huge fan of fighting the entire level at once
00:50:41 <checkers> !lg * god!= s=god% o=.
00:50:47 <checkers> !lg * god!= s=god% o=. recent
00:50:48 <hellmonk> yeah tbf to qaz, it is very straightforward and if you are willing to accept some level of risk you can often turbomurder the whole level on a strong enough combo
00:50:55 <hellmonk> so I understand the appeal
00:51:01 <Sequell> 2805523 games for * (god!=): 33811x Zin (1.21%), 81188x Yredelemnul (2.89%), 178179x Xom (6.35%), 168x Wulndraste (0.01%), 558x Wudzu (0.02%), 7839x Wu Jian (0.28%), 188321x Vehumet (6.71%), 19141x Uskayaw (0.68%), 644094x Trog (22.96%), 79709x The Shining One (2.84%), 126854x Sif Muna (4.52%), 40269x Ru (1.44%), 52041x Qazlal (1.85%), 10465x Pakellas (0.37%), 346250x Okawaru (12.34%), 64820x Neme...
00:51:14 <Sequell> 458645 games for * (god!= recent): 2863x Zin (0.62%), 4537x Yredelemnul (0.99%), 21667x Xom (4.72%), 7839x Wu Jian (1.71%), 29109x Vehumet (6.35%), 10839x Uskayaw (2.36%), 94632x Trog (20.63%), 10302x The Shining One (2.25%), 14305x Sif Muna (3.12%), 9368x Ru (2.04%), 11352x Qazlal (2.48%), 8x Pakellas (0.00%), 64177x Okawaru (13.99%), 5773x Nemelex Xobeh (1.26%), 21507x Makhleb (4.69%), 59741x Lu...
00:51:16 <gammafunk> the tactics you use with the god just aren't all that interesting compared to having control over how fights go down
00:51:26 <gammafunk> makes the game less interesting
00:51:29 <checkers> !lg * god!= s=god% recent
00:51:32 <Sequell> 458649 games for * (god!= recent): 94633x Trog (20.63%), 64177x Okawaru (13.99%), 59741x Lugonu (13.03%), 29109x Vehumet (6.35%), 21667x Xom (4.72%), 21507x Makhleb (4.69%), 19145x Cheibriados (4.17%), 14881x Gozag (3.24%), 14305x Sif Muna (3.12%), 13103x Ashenzari (2.86%), 11514x Dithmenos (2.51%), 11352x Qazlal (2.48%), 10839x Uskayaw (2.36%), 10498x Hepliaklqana (2.29%), 10302x The Shining One ...
00:52:01 <checkers> now redo your chart but scale the altar size by popularity
00:52:01 <nikheizen> what chart
00:52:01 <gammafunk> keep in mind the q is pretty much not taken on many mage starts
00:52:05 <checkers> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&p=315909#p315909
00:52:10 <gammafunk> !lg * god!= s=god% mage recent
00:52:13 <Sequell> 67307 games for * (god!= mage recent): 26975x Vehumet (40.08%), 11453x Sif Muna (17.02%), 4330x Ashenzari (6.43%), 3757x Kikubaaqudgha (5.58%), 2980x Okawaru (4.43%), 2578x Cheibriados (3.83%), 2083x Gozag (3.09%), 2047x Makhleb (3.04%), 1856x Hepliaklqana (2.76%), 1150x Dithmenos (1.71%), 1130x Qazlal (1.68%), 1058x Ru (1.57%), 821x Nemelex Xobeh (1.22%), 742x Yredelemnul (1.10%), 669x Uskayaw (0...
00:52:13 <nikheizen> checkers: thanks
00:52:23 <gammafunk> so the popularity thing depends a lot on your class
00:52:47 <amalloy> also replace all the altar tiles with letters so console players have any idea what you're talking about :P
00:53:08 <nikheizen> i mean i assume the drum is usk
00:53:11 <hellmonk> tbh I think the big factors in god popularity for new players are having intuitive, easy to understand abilities and "obviously fitting" a particular playstyle
00:53:27 <hellmonk> that is why you see so much vehumet and sif on magic starts even though they arent that good
00:53:48 <nikheizen> i think veh is kinda good
00:54:08 <gammafunk> convenience is also big
00:54:33 <gammafunk> I mean those gods are also very high in the win list as well
00:54:36 <hellmonk> yeah I guess more broadly than intuitive abilities is intuitive to play
00:55:17 <gammafunk> playing another dg, it does feel like they're kind of a pain but also kind of closer to playing a better game
00:55:38 <hellmonk> and that includes things like "I will get a bunch of spells to be better at what I'm already doing"
00:55:42 <gammafunk> Linley: Gods were a mistake
00:55:59 <gammafunk> that is a direct quote from my tiles chat, would you believe it?
00:56:04 <gammafunk> he came into my tiles chat to tell me that
00:56:06 <hellmonk> which is v easy to understand and also doesnt require as much game knowledge as "hold up while I tell you about mushrooms"
00:56:34 <gammafunk> also a bunch of stuff like "gammafunk, you are the chosen one among the devs, the true prophet of my grand vision..." etc
00:56:39 <gammafunk> but I won't bore you with details like that
00:56:51 <hellmonk> how much lsd did you do before this conversation
00:57:12 <gammafunk> I just wish I had turned on chat notes for the morgue
00:57:12 <gammafunk> then I would have evidence
01:02:35 <hellmonk> actually now that I think about it tso should be lower and zin higher on the annoying axis
01:03:07 <hellmonk> zin has that really stupid corpse butchering conduct and now some of the really dumb tso conducts are gone
01:05:05 <gammafunk> !lg * warrior|warriormage|adventurer won recent urune<=5 s=god%
01:05:08 <Sequell> 4294 games for * (((warrior || warriormage || adventurer)) won recent urune<=5): 1210x Okawaru (28.18%), 430x Makhleb (10.01%), 333x Gozag (7.76%), 209x Cheibriados (4.87%), 209x Qazlal (4.87%), 208x Ru (4.84%), 174x Uskayaw (4.05%), 160x Trog (3.73%), 149x Yredelemnul (3.47%), 148x Hepliaklqana (3.45%), 139x Dithmenos (3.24%), 138x Wu Jian (3.21%), 135x Ashenzari (3.14%), 102x The Shining One (2....
01:53:28 <checkers> !lg * god=marduk
01:53:29 <Sequell> No games for * (god=marduk).
01:57:53 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-88-g13b9641
02:17:37 <kenran> hey guys, could you have a look at why the travis build of my latest PR didn't go through? only one job failed, and it doesn't look like it has anything to do with the actual code, but rather with aptitude not being able to run properly
02:17:50 <kenran> this is the job that failed: https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/jobs/246909981
02:19:46 <kenran> the same job ran fine with clang instead of gcc
02:28:20 <gammafunk> usually if one job failed it's a false alarm
02:28:45 <gammafunk> travis can have various errors with getting packages installed, or the make test can take too long
02:29:08 <amalloy> yeah, that build error looks bogus as heck
02:29:20 <gammafunk> that build was just due to it failing to install packages, so not your fault
02:32:03 <checkers> !tell hellmonk proof of concept http://dpaste.com/29FYXW3
02:32:03 <Sequell> checkers: OK, I'll let hellmonk know.
02:32:45 <kenran> do you usually rerun those, or just let it be?
02:33:52 <Lightli> ??plan
02:33:52 <Sequell> plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans
02:33:54 <checkers> probably worth just making a comment to that effect in the gh page so that others aren't tricked
02:39:17 <kenran> ok done
02:53:33 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-88-g13b9641
03:28:56 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
09:38:09 <rax> Does anyone know how password changes work on CAO now? |amethyst maybe?
09:55:14 <|amethyst> rax:  cd /home/crawl-dev/dgamelaunch-config  then   sudo ./bin/dgl passwd <username>
09:55:35 <|amethyst> rax:  you might want to   sudo ./bin/dgl ls-users | grep -i <username>   to make sure you have the case right
12:14:27 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:03:36 <Cheibriados> useless 'stop flying' option present in dragon form while wearing ring of flight 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11124 by andreas
14:00:41 <rax> |amethyst: oh wow thank you that's way easier
14:44:38 <johnstein> !lairratio speedstein
14:46:09 <Sequell> 90s limit exceeded: killed !lairratio speedstein
14:46:39 <johnstein> wonder why that keeps happening. sometimes it's fast
14:47:49 <Fixer_> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11122 is resolved and can be closed. thanks
14:51:25 <LexAckson_> Just got the dark Maul. It tells me 'This weapon's minimum attack delay (1.6) is reached at skill level 28.'
14:53:56 <johnstein> ??dark maul
14:53:56 <Sequell> dark maul[1/2]: +10 great mace of crushing with altered stats: 52 dam / -2 acc / 3.0 base delay / 1.65 min delay (with 27 m&f)
14:56:04 <advil> !cmd !lairratio
14:56:05 <Sequell> Command: !lairratio => .echo $(let (x (!lm ${1:-.} $* br.enter=lair ktyp!= x=cdist(gid) fmt:"${x}" stub:"0") y (!lg ${1:-.} $* fmt:"${n}" stub:"0") player (name_fixup $1)) "${player}$(if "${*}" " (${*})" "") has reached Lair in $x of $y attempts: $(int (+ 0.5 (/ (* 100.0 $x) $y)))%")
14:58:09 <LexAckson_> Don't know why it thinks skill level 28. Is that a bug?
14:58:21 <Fixer_> your mantis seems to be hugely outdated
14:58:24 <advil> !lm speedstein br.enter=lair ktyp!= x=cdist(gid)
14:58:28 <Sequell> 10 milestones for speedstein (br.enter=lair ktyp!=): cdist(game_key)=10
14:59:16 <johnstein> !gamesby speedstein
14:59:17 <Sequell> speedstein has played 26 games, between 2017-06-21 04:02:25 and 2017-06-26 06:26:12, won 0, high score 198961, total score 781708, total turns 192336, play-time/day 2:03:38, total time 12:21:49.
14:59:31 <johnstein> !calc 10/26
14:59:32 <Sequell> 0
14:59:32 <advil> Fixer_: I haven't closed it yet because I was doing various other stuff related to that bug
14:59:35 <amalloy> LexAckson_: if you get to skill level 27, it swings at 1.6 half the time, and 1.7 half the time
14:59:42 <johnstein> !calc 10.0/26.0
14:59:44 <Sequell> 0.38
14:59:44 <LexAckson_> ahh okay
14:59:47 <amalloy> so saying that level 27 is mindelay would not be correct
15:00:05 <amalloy> you can't ever reach level 28, but if you could, then that would get it to 1.6 every time
15:01:21 <Fixer_> advil: ok thanks, you are free to close when it is done
15:09:39 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer
16:00:00 <Cheibriados> Monsters stop being bribed without any obvious reason 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11125 by Lavandula
16:10:41 -!- tiro is now known as tiro_
16:10:45 -!- tiro_ is now known as tiro
19:48:40 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
20:02:19 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
20:21:32 -!- bh_ is now known as bh
20:23:12 <minmay> %git 180b2db3797d8d443777c9e30add912d119ed666
20:23:12 <Cheibriados> 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-68-g180b2db: Adjust ranged weapons slightly 10(2 years, 11 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/180b2db3797d
20:23:42 <minmay> %git cfb61905c56eeeb599c04d43f7be9efdaad15e89
20:23:42 <Cheibriados> 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-2057-gcfb6190: Rebalance crossbows 10(3 years ago, 54 files, 178+ 105-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cfb61905c56e
20:25:18 <amalloy> i always get excited to see what weird awful thing we're going to learn about when minmay starts an archaeology expedition
20:25:45 <minmay> Just finding out when hand crossbows were buffed, for Lasty
20:26:07 <n1> I can't believe I got gammadunked
20:26:07 <minmay> so I'll have to disappoint, unless you consider ranged combat a weird awful thing
20:26:08 * geekosaur tempted to dig out the original hand crossbow :p
20:26:32 <geekosaur> well, it is Lasty... :p
20:28:07 <minmay> imo don't dig it out
20:28:33 <geekosaur> actually I was considering pointing to the commit that removed it as the buff
20:30:31 <gammafunk> n1: no one really gets dunked on cyc
20:30:47 <n1> did you see the guy who said they don't like superhero movies though
20:30:54 <n1> no one else does, I agree
20:31:26 <n1> by the way, which dev is isloat
20:32:03 <gammafunk> Brannock
20:32:10 <n1> thanks
22:14:56 <minmay> I have never watched a superhero movie all the way through
22:15:21 <minmay> Some spider-man movie was on tv once and my mom said I could stay up late to watch it if I wanted
22:15:36 <minmay> and I wanted to stay up late, so I watched it for some 30 minutes
22:15:45 <minmay> but then decided that it was so boring that I'd rather go to bed
22:36:36 <checkers> I wrote a wall of text about mutation mechanics https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/563
22:39:30 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/563 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/563
22:39:30 <Cheibriados> 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/563 * 0.21-a0-89-g0309d5a: Rebalance potion of mutation 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0309d5a2b6d5
22:39:42 <minmay> oh, that reminds me to say: I think berserkitis is almost entirely beneficial
22:42:43 <minmay> it only triggers when I hit something in melee, and if I'm hitting something in melee I probably want to continue hitting it in melee until it's dead, and berserking is very nice for that
22:44:07 <minmay> re: 'mutation level' I think it's a reasonable solution to the problem I talked about on tavern, but I think this version of !mut is so bad to quaff that it is basically like not having !mut in the game at all
22:44:44 <minmay> but being unable to reliably cure mutations solves all the scumming problems very well
22:45:01 <hellmonk> mut chunks should still be removed as part of food removal btw
22:50:00 <gammafunk> sorry
22:50:50 <gammafunk> airstrike damage reform is as close to the sun as you'll ever fly, hellicarus
22:51:33 <gammafunk> we are creating an inepentrable firewall to defend against food removal
22:51:39 <gammafunk> and it's made entirely of greasy meat
22:52:28 <hellmonk> i will get fedhas reformed too, you cannot stop my tavern meme power
22:52:38 <hellmonk> no more plantgod free wins ahahahahahaha
22:52:40 <Floodkiller> what happens if food becomes flavor? which side will the devs take?
22:55:35 <gammafunk> minmay: seems like that patch might be better if the random bad mutation relacing the random good mutation wasn't in the patch
22:55:53 <gammafunk> maybe if it didn't try to explicitly add either like that
22:56:01 <gammafunk> but I haven't really thought about it too much
23:07:51 <minmay> gammafunk: ultimately making it both A. good to mutate intentionally, and B. not trivial to get rid of bad mutations, is very hard
23:09:23 <minmay> and picking either A or B instead of both could be fine, but A shouldn't involve butchering dozens of ugly things and shapeshifters every game
23:09:53 <checkers> I think the biggest problem with current mutation potion is that it moves your 'mutation level' towards a near-zero point
23:10:13 <checkers> and when you're near that point, it essentially shuffles all your mutations
23:13:43 <checkers> fr: make mp-powered wands not improve wands, so it's just unambiguously bad
23:17:47 <minmay> I feel mp-powered wands doesn't have much of a place with the yellow wands gone
23:19:59 <minmay> hard to find yourself in a position where being able to zap some attack wand is a life or death thing, unless you get the mutation on d:2 somehow
23:22:39 <minmay> maybe replace it with a mutation that makes you unable to zap wands altogether?
23:22:58 <minmay> kind of steps on sac artifice though...
23:27:19 <checkers> 'reduced wand power'
23:27:57 <minmay> the most important wand is digging so I don't think that would be noticeable
23:28:29 <checkers> remove digging