01:57:08 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-50-g941c862 02:52:25 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-50-g941c862 03:12:27 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-50-g941c862 (34) 03:35:23 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:36:58 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 04:45:38 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:28:31 !tell gammafunk if you enter a disconnected part of a level and finish autoexploring that part, you get a message about an unvisited transporter even if you haven't seen the portion of the level it's on. not sure if that's information that's supposed to be leaked or not 05:28:32 ProzacElf: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 05:31:31 oh, yeah, someone said there was a bug like this 05:31:31 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:31:56 perhaps I'm missing a "seen this square" check 05:31:59 thanks, I'll look into that 07:24:36 Not to ask a hardy perennial, but do we know what's going on with CDO getting 0.20 ? 07:35:15 yes, the server admin was busy before the release and not able to get it in time for tournament 07:35:37 he'll be able to get 0.20 installed on CDO soon, but after the tourney 07:35:47 Oh, brilliant, thanks. 07:36:35 I'll just have to get as much mileage out of Confusing Touch as I can over the next few days 10:01:30 hmm, can't log in to cbro ssh, is it just me? 10:01:54 advil: I can just now 10:02:11 authenticated in dgl as well 10:02:21 webtiles is ok for me, ssh just hangs 10:03:46 yeah ssh is fine to me for cbro 10:03:52 works on my machine 10:07:42 hm it's just this one computer, my laptop works 10:08:24 advil: Pastebinning the output of ssh -v might be informative 10:09:29 well, it works now 11:02:36 New branch created: pull/548 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/548 11:02:36 03Elan Morin Tedronai02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/548 * 0.21-a0-51-ga92a685: Transporter vault: Trog's Sanctum. 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 84+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a92a68589ba8 11:07:47 New branch created: pull/549 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/549 11:07:47 03Elan Morin Tedronai02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/549 * 0.21-a0-50-gb7b5ded: Altar overflow vault: Okawaru's Leap of Faith. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 27+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7b5ded21542 11:07:47 03Elan Morin Tedronai02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/549 * 0.21-a0-51-g4cce568: okawaru_leap_of_faith adjustments. 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4cce568fad7a 12:34:46 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:04:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-50-g941c862 (34) 15:23:56 Hey, I see that tile.cc seems to be declaring an array whose length is a variable. Line 461 says "png_bytep row_pointers[h]; 15:23:56 " 15:24:26 ...where h is a png_uint_32 declared on line 416 and (presumably) populated on line 418. 15:24:51 That's not standard C++, is it? I'm trying to build this in Visual Studio and it's erroring. 15:28:33 It's a G++ extension because legal in C 15:28:59 -!- Warrigal is now known as t_swett 15:30:26 then again visual c is infamous for implementingh only half of a standard and then doing the rest years later 15:56:27 I see there's this log of someone known as svendre working through all the same issues I'm looking at: https://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20160429.lg 15:57:02 * bh pokes Sequell 16:05:43 !tstats 16:06:05 Stats after 16 days (t): 2997 players, 1062 runers, 543 winners, 1685 wins, 73356 games, winrate 2.30%, total player time 4y+187d+2:02:23. 16:06:08 !tstats t0.19 16:06:13 Stats after t0.19 days (t): 0 players, 0 runers, 0 winners, 0 wins, 0 games, winrate NaN, total player time 0. 16:06:18 !tstats 16 t0.19 16:07:49 90s limit exceeded: killed !tstats 16 t0.19 16:07:52 come on 16:07:53 !tstats 16 t0.19 16:09:01 Stats after 16 days (t0.19): 3159 players, 1014 runers, 528 winners, 1423 wins, 79391 games, winrate 1.79%, total player time 4y+129d+8:36:16. 16:10:09 elliptic: can you push the tournament reminder revert? 16:10:18 oh, sure 16:10:25 thanks for reminding me 16:12:08 03elliptic02 07* 0.21-a0-51-gea492e9: Revert "0.20 tournament reminder." 10(54 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea492e930d02 16:12:28 I can run the rebuilds 16:12:30 ??rebuild 16:12:31 rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/rebuild/ Bug |amethyst or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 16:13:51 t_swett: imo what |amethyst said in that log is right, it would be much better as `vector row_pointers(h)`. I guess no one has done that yet. 16:14:55 There's a lot about C++ I don't know. Does a vector automatically delete its storage when it goes out of scope or something? 16:15:11 oh, I don't have admin on CJR so someone else had to do that one 16:15:51 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-51-gea492e9 (34) 16:16:21 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-51-gea492e9 (34) 16:16:37 t_swett: It may be more down to meaning a runtime-defined length is fine 16:17:04 t_swett: they both should do that, but (at least relative to my poor c++ knowledge) is a much better way to do length at runtime 16:17:26 *arbitrary length 16:17:39 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-51-gea492e9 (34) 16:17:41 *nod* 16:17:43 it would probably work in msvc too 16:17:56 I'm used to C and C#. 16:18:22 I know how totally manual memory management works. I also know how garbage collection works. I don't know about the stuff in between. 16:19:57 t_swett: most C++ memory management is done through destructors. when a vector's lifetime ends (eg because it has gone out of scope), its destructor is called, which is responsible for cleaning up any memory it allocated 16:20:37 yeah, explicit memory management is fairly rare in crawlcode, it mostly puts things on the stack 16:21:03 !tell TZer0 FYI rebuilding CUE doesn't show messages in real time, because it's using gzip content-encoding. Doesn't really matter in practice I guess. 16:21:04 Medar: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 16:21:10 whether it actually allocated any memory or not is not actually of interest to us, because the destructor promises to deallocate any memory, and we know the destructor will be called when we're done with it 16:21:59 here's a pithy SO answer summarizing: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/76796/general-guidelines-to-avoid-memory-leaks-in-c/78019#78019 16:23:37 hm, I don't have CJR admin either 16:25:53 ??cjr 16:25:54 cjr[1/2]: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks:8081/ Hosted in Montreal by Zibudo (admin@jorgrun.rocks) and Gramm. SSH login info: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/console.html. 16:27:01 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-51-gea492e9 (34) 16:35:55 . o ( why am I trying to get Crawl to work, when I could be doing my actual job instead--it's literally the same thing ) 16:47:55 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 17:09:17 Letter adjustment mis-reports c, i 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11097 by Mattlistener 17:09:50 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-51-gea492e9 (34) 17:23:22 gammafunk: I killed the tourney script, in case you are wondering why it is off 18:11:32 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 18:35:15 elliptic: thanks 19:23:52 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 20:28:27 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:23:34 ??plan 23:23:35 plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans 23:25:30 wow, so soon Lightli? 23:26:07 we might have to get to some of those important items under "General todo" 23:27:51 also, rip steam 23:28:08 wasn't chequers going to do that 23:28:37 well stream greenlight is gone as of June 6 23:28:54 now you have to pay to get listed 23:29:08 I have a suggestion for 0.21, change the airstrike damage formula to something that makes sense so that we can quit mocking it in irc and move on to mocking some other formula instead 23:29:26 oh right yeah 23:29:33 (finally tbh) 23:29:34 at this point, hellmonk, we're keeping the formula specifically to troll hellcrawl dev 23:29:45 lol 23:30:06 For steam there would have to be some kind of legit organization that had valid tax info even if the money issue were addressed 23:32:13 hellmonk: grats on running a great clan btw, you guys really had my teammates gunning for it close to the end 23:32:33 gammafunk the puppet master 23:33:02 ty, in the end we could not overcome the demise + manman + ultraviolent power combo 23:33:09 no it was more UV4 coordinating points with help from ManMan/Demise, and those three earning a lot 23:33:11 but it was fun 23:33:38 i'm pissed because team awbw had our best tourney ever 23:33:40 and ended up 5th 23:33:46 it was nuts at the top this year 23:33:53 I did my share and more than the designated "meme slot" would be expected (esp given we had a teammate who found they couldn't really play much after t started) 23:33:53 i thought 0.20 was supposed to be harder 23:34:10 yeah did you guys ever figure out why winrate was up 23:34:26 but I only set out to get 4 wins; I do wish I'd gone for 5 but I did a lot of tournament twitch streams on top of all the other stuff 23:34:33 we did not really 23:34:36 only a few leads 23:34:46 I cant think of any earlygame change that should have a ~25% increase on winrate or w/e it was 23:35:07 but it's deffo up about 25%, even a bit higher if you look at non-goodplayers defined respective to 0.19 and 0.20 23:35:08 WalkerBoh: sorry for stealing your mfcj nchoice points 23:35:12 was the tournament lairratio up as well 23:35:17 haha nikheizen, you bastard! 23:35:21 winrate up like 35% for them too 23:35:24 i came home from work and was very upset with you! 23:35:30 :3c 23:35:34 well elliptic found that the winrate increase was concentrated I think between xl9 and xl18? 23:36:07 how did he determine that? 23:36:09 weird 23:36:23 looking at death ratios for different milestones? 23:36:55 i guess that's when you have the most consumables but before you can become diesel? 23:36:59 well it's a pretty simple query I think, although perhaps he didn't do it this way 23:37:03 and consumables are *really* good now 23:37:19 !lg !bot t / xl>=9 23:37:26 20989/78336 games for bot (t): N=20989/78336 (26.79%) 23:37:32 !lg !bot t0.19 / xl>=9 23:37:49 21485/85406 games for bot (t0.19): N=21485/85406 (25.16%) 23:37:57 yeah note how those are pretty similar 23:38:27 !lg !bot t xl>=9 / xl>=18 23:38:31 3850/20989 games for bot (t xl>=9): N=3850/20989 (18.34%) 23:38:33 !lg !bot t0.19 xl>=9 / xl>=18 23:39:16 3358/21485 games for bot (t0.19 xl>=9): N=3358/21485 (15.63%) 23:39:29 !calc 18.34 / 15.63 23:39:30 1.17 23:39:43 !lg !bot t xl>=18 / won 23:39:43 that's % of those which reached xl 9 which also reached xl 18? 23:39:45 1684/3850 games for bot (t xl>=18): N=1684/3850 (43.74%) 23:39:49 yes 23:39:59 !lg !bot t0.19 xl>=18 / won 23:40:02 1420/3358 games for bot (t0.19 xl>=18): N=1420/3358 (42.29%) 23:40:17 but see how those percentages are not as different 23:40:32 so it does seem to be a bit more concentrated in "mid game" 23:40:41 maybe elliptic had a more sophisticated query than what I did there though 23:41:14 hm 23:41:14 the global difference is like 25% so even the xl9-xl18 thing I did doesn't seem to capture it all really 23:41:33 not really sure what would cause that, did you guys accidentally re-add all the removed lair exp and then add even more lair exp or something 23:41:35 [20:39:27] WalkerBoh !lg !bot tall recentish xl>=9 s=cv / xl>=18 o=cv 23:41:36 [20:39:41] Sequell 13591/78174 games for bot (tall recentish xl>=9): 3738/20257x 0.20 [18.45%], 112/732x 0.20-a [15.30%], 3321/21279x 0.19 [15.61%], 37/206x 0.19-a [17.96%], 3197/17964x 0.18 [17.80%], 3186/17736x 0.17 [17.96%] 23:41:53 seems like 0.19 is the outlier in that regard 23:42:01 you have to be careful there WalkerBoh 23:42:10 you need to include -a versions in many of those tournaments 23:42:19 since some servers were running those during tourneys 23:42:23 and which server did changed 23:42:32 what does -a do? 23:42:44 -a means 0.19-a 0.20-a etc 23:42:46 like this 23:42:47 oh i see 23:42:53 !lg * t s=src,cv 23:42:55 80365 games for * (t): 23417x cao (21333x 0.20, 2084x 0.20-a), 22822x cbro (22822x 0.20), 10105x cxc (10105x 0.20), 9958x cue (9958x 0.20), 7246x cjr (7246x 0.20), 3268x cwz (3268x 0.20), 2840x cpo (2754x 0.20, 86x 0.20-a), 709x lld (376x 0.20-a, 333x 0.20) 23:42:57 !lg . won 1 x=cv 23:42:58 1/41. [cv=0.16] nikheizen the Conqueror (L27 OgHu of Fedhas), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2015-03-15 01:15:36, with 2396766 points after 69254 turns and 13:43:41. 23:43:32 like cwz and lld see a lot more deaths due to how players on those servers tend to play (going for 15 runes a lot being one factor) 23:43:48 we often due something like s=regexp_replace(cv, "-a", "") 23:44:03 0.16 was meleebug right 23:44:08 yes, and there's that 23:44:17 so 0.16 will look weird 23:44:23 doesn't get counted in recentish at least 23:44:28 doesn't look like -a games make a big difference at this point 23:44:35 that's what i'm thinking too 23:44:52 that's cool, just something to be aware of when looking at these queries 23:45:10 yeah thanks, i wasn't aware of that 23:45:27 oh, and if you look at games outside of the tournament, be careful since cjr has a ton of duplicated games :( 23:45:33 !lg . won s=gid 23:45:34 80 games for gammafunk (won): 2x gammafunk:cjr:20160919060927S, 2x gammafunk:cjr:20160808042537S, 2x gammafunk:cjr:20160702012553S, 2x gammafunk:cjr:20160616004628S, 2x gammafunk:cjr:20160605010515S, 2x gammafunk:cjr:20160427010803S, gammafunk:cszo:20150107233802S, gammafunk:cbro:20160327043629S, gammafunk:cbro:20160401023904S, gammafunk:cbro:20160408191516S, gammafunk:cbro:20160907002915S, gammaf... 23:45:39 i noticed that on cao too 23:45:41 WalkerBoh: I was just comparing 0.19 and 0.20 tourneys when I decided that the bulk of the difference was between XL 9 and XL 18 23:45:51 gammafunk: oh never mind, maybe my duplicate games are on cjr 23:45:59 yeah I'm not aware of duplication from cao 23:46:05 0.18 not entirely relevant if we are just looking at differences between 0.19 and 0.20 23:46:25 elliptic: i agree, i was just trying to get a sense of the normal variation 23:46:38 !lg !bot t xl>=9 / xl>=13 23:46:42 8642/20989 games for bot (t xl>=9): N=8642/20989 (41.17%) 23:46:42 !lg !bot t0.19 xl>=9 / xl>=13 23:46:51 elliptic: because i'm not aware of any major shifts in win rate outside of 0.16 23:46:55 8141/21485 games for bot (t0.19 xl>=9): N=8141/21485 (37.89%) 23:47:13 !lg !bot t xl>=13 / xl>=18 23:47:17 !lg !bot t0.19 xl>=13 / xl>=18 23:47:19 3850/8642 games for bot (t xl>=13): N=3850/8642 (44.55%) 23:47:26 3358/8141 games for bot (t0.19 xl>=13): N=3358/8141 (41.25%) 23:47:58 btw should probably put !boring on all these queries 23:48:08 yeah 23:48:11 doesn't make a big difference but we traditionally do that in case Sebi played 23:48:41 is it possible that the mix of players in this tournament is just more skilled? 23:48:50 like, % of games played by "vets" is higher? 23:48:52 well we did some queries for non-goodplayers 23:48:53 WalkerBoh: that would be a pretty large shift 23:49:10 based defining those before respective tourneys 23:49:12 agreed 23:49:29 !lg !bot !boring !@goodplayerspre20 / won 23:49:33 er 23:49:36 !lg !bot !boring !@goodplayerspre20 t / won 23:49:42 in fairness, there were a similar number of players winning games this tournament compared to 0.19 - 529 vs. 544 23:49:45 !lg !bot !boring !@goodplayerspre19 t0.19 / won 23:49:55 but the # of won games shot from 1428 to 1710 23:50:01 so wins / player went way up 23:50:05 but # of players winning did not 23:50:07 and the winrate difference is even higher for those groups between 0.20 and 0.19 23:50:35 however I think we say that 0.20-a didn't really show a winrate shift until possibly quite late in the dev cycle 23:50:55 and the shift didn't seem too dramatic, so it's possible that it was simply "more competitiveness" 23:50:59 (when all the top guys starting training for the tourney?) 23:51:00 90s limit exceeded: killed !lg !bot !boring !@goodplayerspre20 / won 23:51:05 sequell no 23:51:14 oh that was the bad query anyhow 23:51:26 570/59088 games for bot (!boring !@goodplayerspre20 t): N=570/59088 (0.96%) 23:52:08 441/62953 games for bot (!boring !@goodplayerspre19 t0.19): N=441/62953 (0.70%) 23:52:22 WalkerBoh: I guess I'm just skeptical of that sort of explanation because nothing so drastic has been visible in any past tourney 23:52:41 and yeah, gammafunk's query shows the winrate effect is still there for players who had fewer than 10 wins pre-tourney 23:52:51 yeah, that's a fairly compelling stat 23:52:55 goodplayer is 10 wins? 23:52:59 yeah 23:53:18 you could look at smaller numbers of pre-tournament wins but the numerator is getting pretty small already 23:53:46 it's also a bit weird given that looking at the changelog it feels like things should have gotten a bit harder 23:53:47 I guess you said that earlier 23:54:22 qualitatively, i think the game is harder now than previously - i had more trouble with weaker characters than i thought i should 23:54:39 but it also seemed to me that the top 50 players was way more competitive than previously 23:55:49 50th place was only about 100 more tourney points than last year 23:56:02 3151 vs 3043 23:56:25 hm okay 23:56:34 and actually if we throw away bots it was 3108 vs 3043 :P 23:56:39 so maybe it's much more top heavy than top 50 23:56:45 i bet you're really proud of that! 23:56:48 qw is getting good 23:57:16 still sad qw didn't beat minmay, that was my goal for most of the tourney 23:57:25 at least he beat me 23:57:26 mainly because he was usually only a place or two ahead 23:57:28 that would've been great 23:57:39 by one spot, i think? 23:57:51 yes qw is sandwiched between you and minmay 23:57:55 nikheizen: if you guys had had a team that was 6 deep you would've beat us for sure 23:58:06 i should have played less and got 27th! 23:58:27 WalkerBoh: yeah, i'm still happy that we could field a top ten team this year 23:58:57 could have gotten top 3 if everyone had worked at least as hard as implo 23:58:57 you guys gave us a bit of pressure, although we were focused on top 4 most of the time 23:59:57 yeah you guys had a much more balanced team