00:01:29 rn I'm thinking just do 7 + random2((pow+6)/6), which seems to keep approx the same average damage if I'm calculating this mess correctly (but the max damage drops by a lot) 00:05:13 |amethyst: oops, I realized hep eventually but not zin 00:06:03 ??random2 00:06:04 random2[1/1]: 1dN - 1 00:06:09 guess I'll try it, not like anyone will notice even if I fuck it up 00:06:34 what's your goal besides making the formula sensible 00:06:56 that's it 00:07:03 shouldn't have said rebalance, mb 00:07:58 hellmonk: here is my extremely dank crawl development gif http://i.imgur.com/bi30vtQ.gif 00:08:10 yeah I saw it 00:08:41 I'm kinda surprised that panlord body is still around tbh 00:08:54 anyway I'm gonna simplify the airstrike damage formula in hellcrawl to gain YET ANOTHER victory over the devil's team 00:08:59 I guess the point of the airstrike formula is to give it sort of a random high damage burst-y feel 00:09:42 ??rnz 00:09:42 rnz[1/1]: http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Rnz 00:09:54 I am not sure that the airstrike formula has a point, but yes, that's what you lose in simplifying it this way 00:10:27 well you don't lose it too badly because you're doing 1dsomething instead of 3dwhatever which a lot of spells have 00:10:31 so I think it'll be fine 00:10:32 one chance in 50 dam *= 2 00:11:01 bursty, yet readable, 00:11:05 * rumflump keeps chewing 00:11:11 and with a chocolatey aftertaste! 00:15:44 I suppose you could use a one_chance_in to model some of the burstiness, but airstrike's burstiness scales with power so you'd want to do it as one_chance_in(whatever) add some power dependent amount, and that starts to look messy again 00:16:18 I got one of those pan lords from Pentagram card, helped me kill an orb of fire 00:16:27 but it had a tentacle head instead of the bird head 00:20:58 hellmonk: damage spikes against monsters are barely visible anyway since monster HP is not visible 00:21:03 and monsters have randomized max HP 00:21:30 damage spikes are visible in hellcrawl, in the sense that you can see the amount of damage you do 00:21:41 though I haven't unrandomized monster maxhp yet 00:31:46 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1109-ge3cd172 (34) 01:20:48 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1109-ge3cd172 (34) 01:59:39 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1109-ge3cd172 02:54:40 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1109-ge3cd172 03:24:41 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1109-ge3cd172 (34) 03:38:42 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0647505517 03:44:02 someone should gift me a copy 03:51:56 man, amazon auto-logs me into my mom's account no matter how many times i tell it not to 03:52:00 at least it wasn't the 50-gallon drum of lube this time 05:05:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 05:51:47 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:55:09 -!- bgiannan_ is now known as bgiannan 08:50:36 -!- Tickenest_ is now known as Tickenest 09:02:55 -!- eviltwin_b is now known as geekosaur 09:51:01 https://xkcd.com/1833/ 10:11:23 -!- Tickenest_ is now known as Tickenest 10:40:19 gammafunk: one solution for the royal jelly situation would be to make them actual monsters but set their XP value to 0 via some other method than making them durable summons. Another would be to have each summon steal a portion of TRJ's XP when it splits off. 10:45:06 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer 10:53:50 !tell floodkiller IMO remove those stats w/o replacement. I don't see why it would be bad to give them worse stats than ghouls. They have way better apts, for one thing. 10:53:51 Lasty_1: OK, I'll let floodkiller know. 10:53:57 -!- Lasty_1 is now known as Lasty_ 11:09:33 gammafunk: tho I suppose that would have implications for monster threat level too, if we weren't careful 12:09:17 -!- SketchFile_ is now known as SketchFile 13:05:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1109-ge3cd172 (34) 13:08:36 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:10:23 FR: remove poisoned needles, in player hands they just lead to loads of kiting and blowbolds with curare would still exist 14:12:24 um 14:12:36 this centaur generated with 2 arrows 14:51:45 item.quantity = 1 + random2(7) + random2(10) + random2(10) + random2(12); 14:51:50 he got lucky 14:51:56 could've generated with 1 arrow 15:05:01 b56 (L18 DsNe) ASSERT(success) in 'mon-cast.cc' at line 2454 failed. (No push space from (52,18)) (Vaults:1) 15:51:05 %git :/minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel 15:51:06 07evilmike02 * 0.10-a0-2838-gb204edd: Fix minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel, de-spoil erik_lair_dragon. 10(5 years ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b204edd26ab9 15:52:14 okay, I can't find the commit easily, but someone changed minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel to use NSUBST instead of binomial probability 15:52:37 they also multiplied the number of plants in the vault by approximately 2.5; it's completely filled with plants now 15:53:03 !vault minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel 15:53:04 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des#L446 15:53:12 it also has an inexplicable lava vein???? 15:54:28 anyway 160 plants is a lot, it could easily lead to hitting the monster limit which is not something that should be happening outside of megazigs 15:54:46 if some other lots-of-monsters vault generates 16:00:14 %git 621994a2034cf1de855b549695fc5045c78d49d3 16:00:14 07regret-index02 * 0.20-a0-60-g621994a: Exhaustive vault review: lair.des 10(6 months ago, 1 file, 789+ 849-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/621994a2034c 16:00:14 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:01:40 oh wow yes it's just literally all plants 16:03:21 submitting a bug report now 16:05:02 minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel has too many plants, bizarre lava vein 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11052 by minmay 16:05:02 That explains all the plants but not the lava 16:06:15 MAX_MONSTERS was increased from 240 to 700 so it actually doesn't introduce a technical problem anymore but still...160 plants... 16:06:45 Oops, I forgot that mantis does not in fact show descriptions in monospace 16:07:02 i think there's some tag for it but i forget what 16:09:17 looks like the lava is there in the initial commit of it 16:09:47 %git fcb9865274c248f885bf08b5e5802d2309f76703 16:09:47 07dpeg02 * 0.8.0-a0-95-gfcb9865: minmay's Lair vaults, including one ending. 10(7 years ago, 1 file, 121+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fcb9865274c2 16:10:13 and had the hatch added in r-i's commit above 16:10:54 The lava is definitely not in the original submission of it: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1872 16:11:00 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=731&type=bug 16:11:48 yeah i saw that, dpeg mentioned he edited some of them in one of the comments so i guess that's where it appeared from 16:11:57 !messages 16:11:57 (1/1) Lasty_1 said (5h 18m 6s ago): IMO remove those stats w/o replacement. I don't see why it would be bad to give them worse stats than ghouls. They have way better apts, for one thing. 16:16:59 <|amethyst> minmay: I edited it to use

16:17:27 <|amethyst> minmay:  (which is how you do that, for future reference... it doesn't support full HTML though
16:17:31 <|amethyst> )
16:18:11  thx
16:20:17  03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-1110-g6411727: Adjust minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel (#11052) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6411727637bf
16:28:48  Lasty: if the stats and stat growth are going to be intentionally worse than ghouls to that level (ghouls even have their high stat and slow stat growth focused on strength which is useful), then they absolutely need something else because I think that would be miserable to play non-chei
16:35:21  Floodkiller: miserable how?
16:35:22  Lasty: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
16:35:56  Lasty: spell hunger still exists and is still obnoxious
16:36:28  minmay: true. Tho that really points to removing spell hunger as being the solution
16:36:39  yes, I think if you removed spell hunger there would be no problem with low stats
16:36:42  but their int even after tehse changes won't be awful
16:36:49  note that ghouls basically don't have spell hunger
16:36:49  their strength will tho
16:36:53  and trolls
16:37:00  and mummies
16:39:44  03Lasty02 07* 0.20-a0-1111-g4e342e6: Remove a vile lie about Whirlwind slowing. 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e342e6793a8
16:46:47  well, for one, background choice for stats becomes incredibly important if you don't want to gimp yourself or go chei, especially with the skill system preventing you from maxing a skill to offset a low stat
16:48:03  but isn't this essentially your goal?
16:50:16  to wed yourself completely to your background choice from turn 0? not really
16:50:36  that doesn't sound like a race good at adapting and learning new things
16:51:29  *continues to aggressively endorse locked-stat, constant high-apt gn*
16:51:35  Floodkiller: your starting stats would matter, but I don't see why you think it would wed you completely to it
16:51:57  it would heavily inform your armor choice, sure
16:52:01  also background stats should probably be looked at in the first place
16:52:04  minmay: almost done developing it on my local branch to test it this weekend
16:52:17  since they significantly affect your character literally forever unless you go jiyva
16:52:29  and backgrounds...aren't really sold as being supposed to do that
16:52:35  minmay: would you prefer to start all backgrounds w/ same species?
16:52:38  er same stas
16:52:40  stats
16:52:41  Floodkiller: I think it would be good to try in trunk
16:53:04  Lasty: I think that would work fine; you could adjust species stats to be more extreme to compensate
16:53:39  I do too from messing around with it in a wizmode char, but I need to make a bugless functional version first to push
16:53:49  more species differentiation late-game seems preferable to more background differentiation late-game
16:54:23  I don't think the manual mentions how much stats a background gives you either
16:54:50  I can't find species stats either
16:55:35  yeah, neither one is specified
16:55:41  so both are something you have to code dive to know, which becomes important if your starting stats are actually important as well
16:55:49  or start scum, I guess
16:55:52  also this makes the sequell !stats command a lot easier!
16:59:03  Is there a good way to express an array and pull an index from it in a c++ expression? I'm looking to do something like return {DARKGREY, RED}[you.num_turns % 2]; where the {} bit is an array and the [] is the index of that array.
16:59:45 <|amethyst> Lasty:  make it a variable and that's fine
17:01:27  |amethyst: aw, I wanted to avoid that. So something like:
17:01:27  int var[2] = {DARKGREY, RED};
17:01:28  return var[you.num_turns % 2];
17:01:33 <|amethyst> COLORS blah[] = { DARKGREY, RED }; return colors[you.num_turns % 2];
17:01:34 <|amethyst> yeah
17:01:42  awrighty, thanks
17:01:46 <|amethyst> s/colors/blah/
17:01:55  that just make this so much uglier :D
17:02:22 <|amethyst> if it's only two elements
17:02:29  said the guy who mostly codes in PHP
17:02:33  sometimes it's >2
17:02:37 <|amethyst> return you.num_turns % 2 ? DARKGREY : RED;
17:02:55  yeah, ternaries would be nice in that case
17:03:08 <|amethyst> you could make a template
17:03:17 <|amethyst> 
17:03:26  oh yeah, haha
17:03:49  
17:04:50  is there a good example template I can crib from
17:05:05 <|amethyst> random_choose probably
17:05:17 <|amethyst> you'd just prepend an integer to use instead of random2
17:05:49 <|amethyst> !source random.h:42..52
17:05:50  Can't find random.h:42..52.
17:05:52 <|amethyst> !source random.h:42,52
17:05:53  Can't find random.h:42,52.
17:05:54 <|amethyst> !source random.h:42
17:05:55  https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/random.h#L42
17:06:04 <|amethyst> !source random.h:42...52
17:06:05  Can't find random.h:42...52.
17:06:07 <|amethyst> FR
17:06:22 <|amethyst> (since github supports highlighting a range of lines
17:06:24 <|amethyst> )
17:08:33 <|amethyst> you'd probably want an  ASSERT(n < sizeof...(rest));
17:09:14 <|amethyst> err
17:09:24 <|amethyst> 1 + sizeof...(rest)  of course
17:09:35  Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1111-g4e342e6 (34)
17:12:35 <|amethyst> FR: someone should write a proof for our variadic random_choose_weighted template
17:12:42  trying it!
17:12:57  by it I do not mean the proof :p
17:13:38  what's n in your assert above?
17:13:49  the chosen index?
17:13:52 <|amethyst> yeah
17:14:48  I'm trying this:
17:14:48  template 
17:14:48  T ordered_choose(T first, Ts... rest)
17:14:48  {
17:14:48  const T elts[] = { first, rest... };
17:14:48  int n = you.num_turns % sizeof...(rest);
17:14:48  ASSERT(n < 1 + sizeof...(rest));
17:14:49  return elts[n];
17:14:49  }
17:15:27 <|amethyst> Lasty:  oh, always num_turns
17:15:55 <|amethyst> I guess that simplifies things, and you don't need an ASSERT
17:16:12 <|amethyst> since that expression is mathematically guaranteed
17:16:19  yeah, this is for things that should change every round
17:16:31  I wasn't sure the assert was necessary, but decided to roll with it
17:16:32  haha
17:17:38 <|amethyst> and in that case you can simplify it to just two lines
17:17:49  yeah
17:17:52 <|amethyst> the array declaration as you have it, then return elts[...]
17:18:05 <|amethyst> (not literally ..., I guess that's confusing here, sorry)
17:18:06  sounds good to me
17:18:20  Any preference on where I put it?
17:18:39 <|amethyst> it's only used by colours?
17:18:58  so far, and probably for the forseeable future
17:19:07 <|amethyst> colour.h maybe; otherwise, timed-effects.h perhaps
17:19:48  religion.cc sadly uses neither. I was hoping that would make the decision for me. I'll go w/ colour.h.
17:19:48 <|amethyst> I do think cycling is a good idea for most etc colours
17:20:03 <|amethyst> unless they're explicitly supposed to be "twinkling"
17:20:06  yeah
17:20:17  Xom shouldn't cycle I assume
17:20:36 <|amethyst> it means you are guaranteed to be able to determine what it is after pressing esc two or three times
17:21:17 <|amethyst> !rng cycle_×om don't_cycle_xom
17:21:17  The RNG chooses: don't_cycle_xom.
17:21:50  lol
17:22:08 <|amethyst> The cards are rigged!
17:22:15 -!- gressup_ is now known as gressup
17:22:16  esc doesn't change turncount, so these colors won't change with esc
17:22:20  Xom should have a mimic altar that pretends to be another god until you choose to worship
17:22:34 <|amethyst> FR: after merging Usk and WJC (or not), merge Xom and Nemelex
17:23:53 <|amethyst> merger of wjc and usk should have a piety bar as usual, but it should "fill up" by parts of it changing colour as you do tricks
17:23:57  are veh and makh altars supposed to twinkle?
17:24:08  |amethyst: haha
17:25:04 <|amethyst> Makh/fire: red yellow lightred in equal quantities so I'd say not
17:25:18 <|amethyst> this should be not just altars, also clouds, monsters, etc
17:25:40 <|amethyst> veh is also three colours equally, so can cycle
17:26:06 <|amethyst> by "twinkle" i mean like ETC_SHIMMER_BLUE
17:26:15 <|amethyst> or ETC_SILVER
17:26:28 <|amethyst> 90-30 or such
17:26:37 <|amethyst> actually
17:26:41 <|amethyst> those could cycle too
17:27:35 <|amethyst> just make them e.g. (blue, blue, lightblue, blue, blue, cyan)
17:28:11 <|amethyst> or maybe  blue blue blue lightblue blue cyan   would be more soothing, I dunno
17:28:31 <|amethyst> FR: turn Shoals into a rhythm game
17:31:50  think of the potential for disco pan
17:37:09  |amethyst: gotcha
17:37:23 <|amethyst> hmm
17:37:33 <|amethyst> one problem is that everything on the screen would be in sync
17:37:47 <|amethyst> if there are lots of flame clouds or elemental monsters
17:38:52 <|amethyst> then again, if it's a 50/50 color the best you can do is blink them back and forth, so maybe that's fine
17:39:56 <|amethyst> could use a combination of position and turns
17:40:05 <|amethyst> so you get waves of colour
17:40:18 <|amethyst> but that requires passing in position
17:40:23  a bunch of existing etc_ things use that i think
17:40:33 <|amethyst> yeah
17:40:34  or at least like, one? disjunction i think
17:40:38 <|amethyst> so maybe it's not so bad
17:40:39 <|amethyst> orb
17:40:45 <|amethyst> elf tile
17:41:12 <|amethyst> err, elf brick that is
17:45:29 -!- kramin is now known as Kramin
18:01:55  03Lasty02 07* 0.20-a0-1112-g3634aa3: Make altars cycle colors instead of randomly shifting (minmay) 10(41 seconds ago, 2 files, 27+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3634aa33d67a
18:02:47  MarvinPA: tornado too
18:04:13  Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1111-g4e342e6 (34)
18:07:40  Lasty: uh...if they don't change on non-turn changing redraws then that just makes this even worse, since I can't even differentiate them by moving the cursor around now
18:08:05  I guess I should have clarified that when I first suggested this
18:08:10  |amethyst, Lasty: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3634aa33d67a#diff-891786bf086213d8f144936d25a2adfaR135 should be % (sizeof...(rest) + 1), no? since rest is all but one of the args
18:08:32 <|amethyst> yes
18:08:52 <|amethyst> or 1 + sizeof...(rest) is a little more of a clue I think
18:08:55  whoops
18:09:21  minmay: ah, hmm. I suppose we'd need to find something else to increment on every keypress...
18:09:31  and then prevent it from overflowing
18:09:37 <|amethyst> Lasty:  also, those aren't used for the altars themselved
18:09:43 <|amethyst> s/d$/s/
18:09:52  |amethyst: oops.
18:10:05 <|amethyst> !source feature-data.h
18:10:05  https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/feature-data.h
18:10:14  this is what I get for not testing. For some reason console doesn't like to compile for me
18:10:29 <|amethyst> and you'd need to introduce new colours
18:10:43 <|amethyst> possibly a problem with your ncurses?  what's the error?
18:10:59  I don't recall. i'll have to check
18:11:18  I'm afraid I have to head out shortly -- I'll roll this back for now and try to fix it up later
18:12:31  03Lasty02 07* 0.20-a0-1113-g3e41d78: Revert "Make altars cycle colors instead of randomly shifting (minmay)" 10(52 seconds ago, 2 files, 16+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3e41d78dfad8
19:09:35  Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1113-g3e41d78 (34)
20:02:45 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
20:09:12 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
20:09:31  should monsters with /polymorph zap them at player ghouls/mummies?
20:17:42  to be fair, if they're supposed to be as ignorant as a new player, they should
20:17:56  i don't know what the official stance on that is though
20:18:16  maybe they met up with their undead buddies one night to have some fun with the poly wand
20:39:03 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
20:39:11  !crashlog
20:39:12  17252. PublicChat, XL1 TrCK, T:1 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/0.19/PublicChat/crash-PublicChat-20170505-200001.txt
20:39:37  !crashlog b56
20:39:39  1. b56, XL18 DsNe, T:33762 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/b56/crash-b56-20170505-190500.txt
20:43:02  hm
20:43:12  there was literally no push space
20:43:20  not sure crashing in that scenario is the right answer
21:06:03  03Lasty02 07* 0.20-a0-1114-g33edf32: Revert "Remove a vile lie about Whirlwind slowing." 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/33edf325c0d3
21:08:01  wow, all the lasty reverts
21:14:03  the worst lie
21:25:15  gammafunk: I should spend more time committing and then reverting code
22:09:25  Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1114-g33edf32 (34)
23:34:42  rip thanks: Fatal error: Class 'messenger' not found in /var/www/crawl.develz.org/htdocs/tavern/includes/functions_thanks.php on line 511
23:36:25  noooo
23:36:53  yeah that happens every now and then
23:37:19  it probably still thanked the post, but if not you can just try again
23:50:23  ??barachi
23:50:24  barachi[1/4]: New frog-like species in trunk. Has a Hop ability letting the player choose a spot up to 4 tiles away, landing them randomly in a 5x5 area. Range upgrades to 6 at XL13. Barachians have Slow 1 (move 1.2, faster than Na), are amphibious, and have average stats and apts (see barachian[2]). In addition, they have +1 LOS for a total of 8.
23:59:58  Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1114-g33edf32 (34)