00:00:00 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1026-gc3ddcbd (34)
00:20:13 <Jafet> are bultungin meant to have no species.txt description?
00:20:21 <gammafunk> they were renamed to Gnolls
00:20:28 <gammafunk> ??bultungin
00:20:28 <Sequell> gnoll[1/5]: A fast-learning dog-like species. Their aptitudes start out at +4 in all skills, and after the skill is level 7, quickly decrease to -6 when the skill is level 11.
00:20:41 <gammafunk> hopefully gnolls have a proper description
00:20:52 <gammafunk> in species.txt and elsewhere
00:21:09 <alexjurkiewicz> they appear to
00:21:32 <Jafet> oh I needed to rebuild
00:21:55 <ProzacElf> if it doesn't say "dog-faced jerks" can we really say it's "proper?"
00:22:38 <Jafet> “notorious player-killers”
00:22:49 <ProzacElf> also, was there a fairly recent change to the apts on them?
00:23:04 <ProzacElf> or is the change a lot more sudden than i got to?
00:23:16 <ProzacElf> because i got a couple skills up to 8 or 9 and saw they went down to 0
00:23:22 <ProzacElf> but never got far enough to test it farther
00:29:11 <alexjurkiewicz> it hasn't changed since they were merged
00:29:28 <alexjurkiewicz> it drops 2 aptitudes per skill level above 8(?) iirc
00:29:40 <ProzacElf> just never got any given skill high enough i guess then
00:31:36 <gammafunk> ProzacElf: the current learndb descript is accurage
00:31:39 <gammafunk> *accurate
00:33:39 <ProzacElf> i wasn't accusing it of being wrong, just was wondering if i didn't get any given skill high enough to see the decline all the way down
00:41:58 <Brannock> !seen PleasingFungus
00:41:58 <Sequell> I last saw Pleasingfungus at Wed Apr 12 23:03:10 2017 UTC (1w 5h 38m 47s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.0.2/20170323105023]'.
00:42:40 <Brannock> gammafunk, feature freeze's starting soon, right? iirc we wanted the 0.20 tournament to run juuuust after university finals, though that's complicated because a lot of places stagger finals throughout may/june
00:52:30 <ProzacElf> wow, the tourney is trying to account for people's lives?
00:52:45 <Brannock> yes, there's been complaints that the tournaments tend to run during college finals
00:53:09 <Brannock> a significant portion of the playerbase are college students, or work at universities
00:54:31 <ProzacElf> yeah, i remember the last several tourneys a number of people i know had other commitments
00:54:44 <ProzacElf> i did too for at least one
00:55:02 <ProzacElf> obviously you can't accomodate everyone
00:55:15 <Brannock> we can't, but we can try to lean it towards low-activity periods in the calendar
00:55:21 <ProzacElf> yeah
00:56:18 <ProzacElf> i don't know if it's worth it, but there's also the "junethack" yearly thing
00:56:41 <ProzacElf> by which i mean it's probably not worth scheduling around
00:56:50 <gammafunk> I think we want at least a couple weeks before feature freeze
00:56:53 <Brannock> what is junethack?
00:57:08 <ProzacElf> basically the big nethack tourney involving all of the forks
00:57:32 <ProzacElf> taking up most or all of june
00:57:56 <ProzacElf> i usually get roped into a team and then play like 3 games max
00:58:02 <gammafunk> yeah, we can't be too precise with tourney scheduling
00:58:04 <ProzacElf> because i don't even like nethack that much
00:58:21 <Brannock> valkyrie.. greyswandir.. silver dragon armour..
00:58:25 <ProzacElf> lol
00:58:30 <Brannock> man it's been like a decade since I tried nethack
00:59:01 <ProzacElf> i know a couple of people who are the main devs on one of the forks
00:59:01 <ProzacElf> so i join their team
00:59:11 <ProzacElf> and basically just try to earn a few points for a unique death
00:59:13 <ProzacElf> and call it a day
01:00:41 <Brannock> I have one big thing I want to push before feature freeze and Floodkiller has been working on some gnoll fixes, so a couple weeks sounds good
01:00:49 <Brannock> 'big' not actually being that big (scarf improvements)
01:01:18 <gammafunk> well there are some decisions to be made about wu, gnolls (that might depend on FK's changes)
01:01:40 <Brannock> yeah WJC I think needs more time in the oven
01:01:53 <gammafunk> and probably a few other things, so as long as we all agree on the big things in two weeks, it should be ok
01:19:29 <minmay> what about frogs
01:27:51 <alexjurkiewicz> us-centric
01:28:23 <alexjurkiewicz> merge my zin pr before feature freeze or earn my eternal mild disappointment
02:45:53 <Rotatell> Aer1al (L20 VSAK) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Abyss:1)
02:53:10 -!- Telnaior_ is now known as Telnaior
03:13:06 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1026-gc3ddcbd (34)
03:46:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
04:45:26 <gammafunk> what about frogs? they're just amphibians dude
04:45:40 <gammafunk> no furries, no scalies, no slimies
05:18:34 <Jafet> Sif Muna accepts your kill.  You see here a book of Burglary.  Sif Muna grants you a gift!
05:18:43 <Jafet> is that the right message order?
05:24:42 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
08:00:40 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos
08:27:10 <alexjurkiewicz> Jafet: no but i think it's difficult to fix
08:27:25 <alexjurkiewicz> Jafet: iirc the problem is the code doesn't let you know if a book was created successfully until after it tries
08:38:53 <Jafet> it seems that the message is actually printed by move_item_to_grid, not the book creation code
08:42:24 <Jafet> oh nevermind, you are correct
09:03:46 -!- Silurio_ is now known as Silurio
09:42:47 <TZer0> !messages
09:42:48 <Sequell> (1/1) geekosaur said (14h 13m 29s ago): should cue be reporting milestones in ##crawl? I see none in (largeish) backscroll and someone just noted they had a win that wasn't reported (!lg * won cue 4015)
09:42:59 <TZer0> !tell geekosaur I'll take a look at it in approx. 5 hours.
09:43:00 <Sequell> TZer0: OK, I'll let geekosaur know.
09:44:14 <advil> !crashlog
09:44:15 <Sequell> 17154. Aer1al, XL20 VSAK, T:39249 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Aer1al/crash-Aer1al-20170420-064541.txt
09:49:47 <TZer0> I did a quick restart, I'll see if that helps and then I'll look into it in detail later
09:50:54 <|amethyst> a tentacled starspawn got blunk
09:51:00 <advil> so it did
09:51:19 <|amethyst> and in the process of killing tentacles, something went wrong
09:51:34 <advil> I think the tentacle must have been killed twice?
09:51:47 <advil> this is that same new assert in monster_die
09:54:16 <|amethyst> advil:  this looks suspicious:
09:54:20 <|amethyst> monster* tentacle = mons->type == MONS_ELDRITCH_TENTACLE
09:54:20 <|amethyst> ? mons : monster_by_mid(mons->tentacle_connect);
09:54:47 <|amethyst> oh, never mind, a starspawn isn't an eldritch tentacle
09:54:51 <advil> heh I think all tentacle code looks suspicious to me
09:55:13 <|amethyst> oh, I guess:
09:55:37 <|amethyst> hm
09:55:48 <advil> maybe some of these monster_dies need to check for validity first
09:56:12 <advil> can you tell from the symbols in the crashlog if the main body got blinked?
09:57:10 <|amethyst> it already did, hence the message
09:57:25 <|amethyst> you need to manually set your browser's encoding to UTF-8
09:57:49 <advil> ah
09:57:52 <|amethyst> but the X is in fact several squares away, with just a w (and two clouds) next to the player
09:58:14 <|amethyst> in the gdb dump
09:58:19 <|amethyst> mwhere = {x = 32, y = 48}
09:58:29 <|amethyst> the player is at (31, 46)
09:58:30 <advil> oh yeah the gdb dump says which call it was
09:58:34 <advil> anyways
09:58:39 <|amethyst> so that's just south of the w
09:59:23 <|amethyst> this is in mons_relocated so I don't know
09:59:31 <|amethyst> if this is still part of the original blinking of the monster
09:59:56 <|amethyst> or part of blinking a tentacle that was left over
09:59:57 <advil> if I understand right it's all part of the same call and it's now supposed to be cleaning up tentacles (they should just all die)
10:00:13 <advil> !source teleport.cc:221
10:00:14 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/teleport.cc#L221
10:01:51 <|amethyst> _apply_to_monsters in mon-util.cc doesn't check for validity, just non-nullness
10:02:36 <|amethyst> so either it, or every function that is passed to apply_{monsters_around_square,visible_monsters}, needs that check
10:02:47 <|amethyst> probably there were other bugs lurking
10:03:15 <|amethyst> perhaps more serious than a double-death (which wouldn't have caused any errors before the assert)
10:05:17 <advil> stomping and decks I guess
10:05:28 <advil> these seems like v useful functions that no one knows exist
10:05:46 <|amethyst> affects Usk stomp, Dispersal, bend space, and cards: velocity, shaft, vitriol, pain, elixir, degen
10:06:41 <|amethyst> I guess things like Refrig don't use it because they need to affect the player (and once needed to affect items)
10:07:32 <|amethyst> and they do "hostiles in range" checks and so on so have their own more complicated thing
10:07:59 <advil> yeah, maybe it's just that they're too simple for a lot of cases
10:08:17 <|amethyst> _cast_los_attack_spell is the fancy one
10:09:28 <|amethyst> and also tries to avoid monsters that weren't present when the spell started
10:10:16 <|amethyst> since that has its own problems (whether TRJ spawns are affected depend on which side they ended up on and the direction of the sweep)
10:10:49 <|amethyst> probably that would be a good idea for _apply_to_monsters too?
10:11:05 <|amethyst> I guess TRJ spawn is a fineff
10:11:40 <|amethyst> as would be most relevant things, but it still seems fragile as it is
10:15:36 <advil> I'm still a little hazy on this exact crash
10:17:12 <advil> since it happened inside a monster_iterator loop, not to the argument of mons_relocated
10:18:53 <advil> also that can't possibly be the best way to find all child tentacles can it?
10:19:00 <advil> [he says, hopefully]
10:21:02 <advil> I would have hoped that killing a tentacle with child tentacles will kill all children automatically?
10:27:06 <advil> // Some issue with using monster_die leading to DEAD_MONSTER
10:27:06 <advil> // or w/e. Using hurt seems to cause more problems though.
10:27:43 <advil> despite these optimistic comments I wonder if mons_relocated should be calling destroy_tentacle though
10:28:02 <advil> or destroy_tentacles, for the head
10:30:07 <Jafet> another passing comment: KILLED_BY_STUPIDITY etc. are still in the game, even though stat death is gone
10:30:47 <advil> Jafet: yes, there's a few of those, the code for death by mutation is still there as well
10:32:22 <advil> I considered replacing that with an assert but I was worried about unexpected consequences
10:33:10 <|amethyst> it still needs to exist to some degree
10:33:10 <|amethyst> for the score list
10:33:17 <advil> yeah, that's one thing I wasn't very sure about
10:33:42 <Jafet> I see
10:33:51 <advil> or some weird interaction with sequell that I couldn't predict (though that seems less likely)
10:35:47 <|amethyst> _str_to_kill_method is probably the only thing that cares
10:36:11 <|amethyst> when creating a scorefile_entry object from the scores list
10:36:26 <|amethyst> anyway, must go, have fun bugfixing :)
10:36:38 <advil> heh I'm scared of changing any tentacle code
10:36:40 <advil> later
10:37:57 <advil> I can add that check to _apply_to_monsters though, that seems innocuous
10:38:25 <|amethyst> IMO don't change tentacle code, but fix _apply_to_monsters directly to check either validity or aliveness
10:38:31 <advil> yeah
10:38:44 <advil> I'm just not 100% convinced that that actually triggered this crash
10:38:52 <advil> because the crash was behind a layer of iteration
10:40:35 <advil> oh, but it could be blinking a dead segment maybe
10:40:54 <|amethyst> My theory, and if it's right it should be easy to replicate (maybe half the time): the base got blinked first, and monster_relocate correctly killed the tentacles; then _apply_to_monsters tried killing a tentacle (that's already dead), and when following its children it crashed
10:40:59 <|amethyst> yeah
10:41:02 <|amethyst> anyway, later :)
10:41:12 <advil> later, thanks
10:41:49 <|amethyst> s/tried killing/tried blinking/  # I'm going to make myself late :)
10:42:02 <advil> go go I've got it :)
10:51:52 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer
10:57:14 <advil> well, this code to clean up tentacles in mons_relocate clearly doesn't work right -- but it doesn't crash any more with the validity check either
10:58:43 <advil> oh wait
10:58:44 <advil> I lied
10:58:46 <advil> it still crashes
11:01:13 <advil> I think it's crashing less though
11:13:40 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-1027-g5ae3f2a: Add a validity check to _apply_to_monsters (|amethyst) 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ae3f2a9d260
11:14:20 <advil> figuring out the remaining tentacle+bend space crashing (if in fact it changed) will have to happen later
11:14:50 <espais> elliptic: q regarding the qw rc file...i noticed the god list is only populated by Trog in the current version...is that intentionally singular?
11:17:47 <espais> GOD_LIST = { "Trog", }
11:17:51 <elliptic> that's just the default config
11:17:58 <elliptic> if you want it to use a different god, change it
11:18:13 <espais> and if i toss several in there will it pick whichever shows up first?
11:18:15 <elliptic> yes
11:18:19 <espais> alright, cool
11:18:47 <espais> then last question for now...the FULL_INVENTORY_PANIC flag
11:19:14 <espais> will it just sit there if the inventory is full, or will it trigger the rest action for 1000 turns until it bails or dies?
11:20:45 <elliptic> at the moment it will just stop running and sit there
11:21:14 <elliptic> if you want it to quit then you can change plan_full_inventory_panic (see plan_stuck for how to make it quit)
11:21:30 <elliptic> I haven't seen qw reach full inventory anytime recently though
11:21:48 <espais> gotcha
11:21:57 <espais> my stuff tends to find edge cases like these so i'll keep my eye out
11:22:13 <elliptic> (removing a lot of food types helped)
11:22:19 <espais> ah yea i could see that
11:23:31 <espais> alrighty, thank you
12:09:28 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1027-g5ae3f2a (34)
12:10:42 <Jorgrell> EminenceFront (L15 DsAK) ASSERT(can_reach()) in 'melee-attack.cc' at line 2340 failed. (Orc:1)
12:36:30 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/523 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/523
12:36:30 <Cheibriados> 03yrmvgh02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/523 * 0.20-a0-1028-g3775f13: correct comments that mention Bultungin 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3775f13966ce
12:36:30 <Cheibriados> 03yrmvgh02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/523 * 0.20-a0-1029-g30bc7f3: correct "mock" vault to mock gnoll, not bultungin 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30bc7f3ed688
12:39:46 <Cheibriados> 03yrmvgh02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-1028-g3775f13: correct comments that mention Bultungin 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3775f13966ce
12:39:46 <Cheibriados> 03yrmvgh02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-1029-g30bc7f3: correct "mock" vault to mock gnoll, not bultungin 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30bc7f3ed688
12:39:46 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-1030-g4e41807: Pluralise some gnolls 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4e4180709e20
12:39:46 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-1031-gb3a76b0: Merge pull request #523 from yrmvgh/patch-17 10(9 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b3a76b0017b6
12:47:10 <Cheibriados> 03Jomel Imperio02 07* 0.20-a0-1018-g9cf9c68: Fix Dvorak keyboard binding 10(5 days ago, 2 files, 0+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9cf9c6832e6e
12:47:10 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-1033-g05abe66: Merge pull request #516 from jimperio/master 10(5 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05abe66500bc
13:04:52 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1033-g05abe66 (34)
13:09:24 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1033-g05abe66 (34)
13:10:52 <espais> this might be a silly question, but i can't seem to find it in the documentation
13:11:05 <espais> if i want to override where the saves directory goes, which cmd line argument do i pass to the crawl binary?
13:12:36 <espais> basically i'm trying to run several instances of crawl at once and need to create a separate saves dir per process
13:14:16 <espais> right now i'm basically passing in -rc, -morgue, -name, and -seed
13:14:54 <MarvinPA_> espais: i think you'd do something like "-extra-opt-last save_dir=whatever"
13:14:57 <MarvinPA_> ??options_guide
13:14:57 <Sequell> rcfile[1/4]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt
13:15:31 <MarvinPA_> see 0-b
13:19:20 <espais> seems to work, thanks!
13:29:25 <espais> hmm...actually seems to have issues still
13:29:28 <espais> so this is an example call
13:30:40 <espais> ./crawl-trunk -name trial_15_19 -rc runs/trial_15_19/qw-trial_15_19.rc -morgue runs/qw-trial_15_19 -seed 1 -extra-opt-last save_dir=runs/qw-trial_15_19/saves
13:31:32 <espais> it still creates a 'saves' directory in the root where i kick the applicaiton off from
13:32:01 <espais> for reference, runs is a directory that exists, and runs/qw-trial_x_y gets created at run time
13:42:45 <espais> interestingly when i run it from the command line it seems to work fine
13:42:59 <espais> its when i try to multiprocess using python, creating 4 subshells and calling them in parallel that this issue seems to happen
13:52:48 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
14:59:42 <rumflump> that species-mock overflow altar :P
15:00:24 <rumflump> it adds a surprising amount of extra fiddling as races get added, removed, or changed
15:38:38 <espais> does wand of disintegration no longer break translucent rock walls?
15:39:32 <espais> http://imgur.com/a/OWLrc
15:39:49 <Dracunos> was deemed too interesting
15:40:57 <espais> is that a reply to my comment?
15:43:12 <geekosaur> %git 85f13f0
15:43:12 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-409-g85f13f0: Don't make BEAM_DISINTEGRATION or BEAM_DEVASTATION dig walls 10(4 months ago, 4 files, 5+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85f13f00f281
15:43:12 <Sequell> geekosaur: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
15:43:22 <geekosaur> !messages
15:43:23 <Sequell> (1/1) TZer0 said (6h 23s ago): I'll take a look at it in approx. 5 hours.
15:43:32 <espais> ok, all the documentation then still says it will do it
15:44:01 <espais> ??wand of disintegration
15:44:01 <Sequell> disintegration[1/2]: Wand only. Does resistible damage vs monsters, very effective against low-level enemies. Destroys rock walls one square at a time. Destroys doors and stone statues. Only does damage to monsters and does not destroy anything in trunk.
15:44:08 <espais> ??translucent rock wall
15:44:08 <Sequell> translucent rock wall[1/1]: Exactly what it says on the tin - a translucent, rock wall.
15:46:20 <nikheizen> nice vault with fire dragon, ice dragon, ugly things, and yaktaur on D:7
15:47:11 <nikheizen> for what purpose was this done
15:58:01 <amalloy> nikheizen: that seems a little excessive. do you know what vault it was, or any information that would help find it?
16:02:42 <nikheizen> i have a screenshot and i guess when i die you can check the morgue
16:08:42 <nikheizen> amalloy: http://i.imgur.com/mWFUAaV.png http://i.imgur.com/mWFUAaV.png
16:09:41 <amalloy> that's a nice distinctive shape at least
16:11:19 <nikheizen> i'll email you the vault name when i doops
16:11:29 <amalloy> actually since you're playing on CAO you can probably just send me a save backup, nikheizen
16:12:44 <nikheizen> amalloy: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/saves/nikheizen-crawl-git-05abe66500-170420-1612.tar.bz2
16:14:18 <amalloy> ah
16:15:00 <amalloy> blame minmay, of course
16:15:32 <nikheizen> yes, I'm not surprised
16:18:32 <amalloy> well, it is quite a complicated vault that looks like it is designed to be very hard
16:18:36 <amalloy> but i can't really say for sure
16:18:56 <amalloy> !vault minmay_octo_triangle
16:18:57 <Sequell> Can't find minmay_octo_triangle.
16:19:08 <amalloy> !vault minmay_the_grid_octo_triangle
16:19:09 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/the_grid.des#L846
16:19:29 <amalloy> i don't mind linking you to a vault for an in-progress game because it is incomprehensible anyway
16:20:01 <nikheizen> i mean, i already finished it anyhow
16:20:56 <nikheizen> okay that's completely incomprehensible yes
16:21:00 <amalloy> sounds like the difficulty was just right then, har har
16:34:13 <nikheizen> har har hardly
17:17:52 <Floodkiller> I remember encountering that vault before as well, I think I only beat it because I lured and stairdanced away every single individual enemy in the vault
17:17:52 <Sequell> Floodkiller: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
17:19:56 <nikheizen> i only beat it because I found Umbra really early and had evokable invis plus okawaru melee
17:59:09 <|amethyst> amalloy:  I was watching your hyperrogue videos... did you ever manage to beat it?
17:59:37 <amalloy> |amethyst: i found an orb of yendor, and then got fed up with the quest to unlock it
17:59:49 <|amethyst> yeah, I enjoyed your rants about that :)
17:59:55 <|amethyst> I'm in the same state
18:00:18 <amalloy> you could try for a hyperstone victory
18:00:29 <|amethyst> I thought you needed an orb for that?
18:00:30 <amalloy> substantially harder i think, but not the dumb tedious thing
18:00:36 <amalloy> do you?
18:00:41 <amalloy> maybe so
18:00:59 <|amethyst> in 9.4 I haven't yet managed to get an orb of yendor, because I keep going for new lands rather than heading for Hell after 9
18:01:22 <amalloy> that's more fun anyway
18:01:44 <|amethyst> ah, I was wrong, you don't need the orb to get hyperstones
18:01:46 <amalloy> |amethyst: documentation i can find says that you don't need orbs
18:02:18 <|amethyst> I spent most of my time in 6.6, where there were substantially fewer lands
18:02:52 <amalloy> i like overgrown woods
18:03:45 <|amethyst> I also agree with you in disliking the Warped Coast with the ratlings
18:04:04 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1033-g05abe66 (34)
18:04:06 <|amethyst> that land has led to more meta-checkmates than I care to admit
18:04:26 <|amethyst> (not checkmated, but can't move because any move would put me into checkmate)
18:05:23 <|amethyst> Have you looked at the Yendor challenge?
18:05:32 <rumflump> ##hyperrogue is a fine channel, except for being completely dead outside of updates
18:06:02 <rumflump> not that I have a problem with it being discussed here, just fyi-ing that it exists :)
18:06:07 <|amethyst> it's a special mode (like Sprint kind of) that lets you practice various ways of finding your way back from the key
18:06:30 <|amethyst> rumflump:  maybe we'll add ratlings to 0.21
18:07:26 <amalloy> |amethyst: no, after a couple attempts i decided i wasn't going to let the game make me go for orbs of yendor
18:07:31 <rumflump> my favorite enemy is the jungle trees, where you have to strike at their core
18:07:33 <|amethyst> amalloy:  heh
18:07:41 <amalloy> collecting more treasures was the fun part, so if i ever do win it will be through hyperstones
18:07:51 <|amethyst> rumflump:  have you seen the mutant ivies in newer versions?
18:07:59 <rumflump> it works the way that I used to think krakens worked (hit the body to win, not the tenties)
18:08:03 <amalloy> that's the overgrown woods i was talking about
18:08:06 <amalloy> more advanced jungle
18:08:06 <|amethyst> yeah
18:08:23 <|amethyst> rumflump:  krakens also exist too now
18:08:25 <amalloy> i tried clearing a couple times, which is still more difficult, but i never figured it out
18:08:38 <|amethyst> rumflump:  you have to hit each of the tentacles
18:08:52 <|amethyst> I managed to traipse into that land without Orb of the Fish
18:08:55 <rumflump> I haven't explored hyperrogue much, I had trouble with one of the updates and just never got around to playing again after that
18:09:11 <|amethyst> I found an island, but I was not able to get the timing down to get the odd-numbered tentacles
18:09:31 <|amethyst> and the kraken destroyed my boat, so I had no way off the island as long as it was around
18:09:59 <advil> clearly we need some of these features for our kraken
18:10:50 <|amethyst> apparently the seven-cell kraken is the largest multi-cell creature that is possible in HR
18:11:05 <|amethyst> anything bigger would fall apart as some cells have to move further than others
18:11:34 <|amethyst> moving multi-cell fixed-arrangement creature, that is
18:11:49 <|amethyst> and "widest" I suppose rather than "largest", since worms
18:12:49 <ProzacElf> hyperrogue?
18:12:58 <ProzacElf> boats?
18:13:00 <ProzacElf> islands?
18:13:04 <ProzacElf> intriguing
18:18:46 <amalloy> ProzacElf: hyperrogue is pretty cool. you can watch my videos at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKDpSfFMS1VQCGPz8N7olzvO5L7ETA-94 if you want to see what it's all about
18:20:57 <ProzacElf> neato
18:22:36 <ProzacElf> non-euclidian geometry?
18:25:18 <|amethyst> yes, hyperbolic geometry presented in the Poincar� disk mode.  Someone calculated that, if each edge of a cell is one meter long, a circle of radius 92 would contain more area than the Earth's surface area
18:25:32 <advil> |amethyst: do you happen to know what KILL_MISC vs KILL_RESET means for tentacles?
18:25:40 <amalloy> |amethyst: you can change it from the disk model
18:25:44 <|amethyst> yeah
18:25:55 <ProzacElf> heh
18:26:03 <rumflump> I thought every circle in hyperrogue has infinite circumference. or maybe it was infinite place inside it
18:26:09 <amalloy> rumflump: exponential
18:26:10 <ProzacElf> the yeti would kill you there!
18:26:13 <|amethyst> amalloy:  though I question the usefulness of the conformal spiral model :)
18:26:26 <|amethyst> rumflump:  you're thinking of horocycles
18:26:34 <|amethyst> rumflump:  e.g. the temple of cthulhu
18:26:40 <amalloy> advil: if i had to guess, _reset means "the monster can no longer see the player, so its tentacles must be withdrawn"
18:27:08 <ProzacElf> man
18:27:11 <amalloy> but this is based on zero research, just some thoughts about reasons a tentacle might be destroyed
18:27:12 <|amethyst> advil:  KILL_MISC counts towards your kill numbers while KILL_RESET does not
18:27:16 <ProzacElf> i wouldn't think the elixir of life would be so plentiful
18:27:28 <advil> one option is, they aren't supposed to mean anything different but the do now
18:27:47 <|amethyst> I'm sure there are other differences too
18:27:53 <advil> KILL_MISC doesn't trigger recursion in monster_die
18:28:18 <ProzacElf> oh
18:28:22 <ProzacElf> mine-laying birds
18:28:22 <advil> I'm trying to figure out if there's a reason why this other code used KILL_RESET
18:28:43 <ProzacElf> hyberbolic minesweeper
18:28:47 <ProzacElf> just what i always wante
18:28:48 <ProzacElf> d
18:28:59 <|amethyst> advil:  KILL_RESET also avoids messaging
18:29:20 <|amethyst> it's what &G uses by default (among other things)
18:29:44 <|amethyst> it also never gives XP, but that's not relevant for tentacles
18:29:53 <advil> hmm, maybe that's why
18:30:27 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  that one's actually not all that interesting
18:30:35 <advil> but I think calling monster_die on tentacles with anything but MISC in an iterator is a bad idea because it then calls destroy_tentacle
18:30:42 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  it plays more or less like minesweeper on a grid
18:30:57 <ProzacElf> yeah
18:31:02 <ProzacElf> it appears quite boring in fact
18:31:25 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  after you collect enough eggs, you start getting bomberbirds, who drop mines when killed
18:31:31 <ProzacElf> sweet
18:31:32 <|amethyst> until then, it's pretty boring
18:32:15 <|amethyst> also, if you collect 25 bomberbird eggs once ever, you will in all future games expose surrounding cells when you step on a 0-adjacent-mine cell
18:32:21 <|amethyst> which speeds things up a bit
18:32:28 <ProzacElf> mmmm
18:32:35 <|amethyst> (you get that for the current game after 10 eggs, but 25 enables it permanently)
18:32:35 <ProzacElf> big tasty eggs
18:32:54 <ProzacElf> that are also triangular for some reason
18:33:59 <ProzacElf> this is truly riveting video
18:34:32 <amalloy> we aim to please
18:36:19 <ProzacElf> heh
18:36:32 <ProzacElf> do you just automatically kill anything that's dumb enough to move next to you?
18:37:03 <ProzacElf> assuming you aren't dumb enough to move next to it first
18:37:26 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  no, you have to spend an action
18:37:39 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  meaning you can get trapped if two adjacent monsters chase you into a wall
18:37:47 <ProzacElf> ah
18:37:58 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  there is a web demo btw
18:38:05 <|amethyst> also showing off the power of emscripten
18:38:09 <ProzacElf> interesting
18:38:24 <|amethyst> http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/online.php   it's quite slow though compared to local
18:38:30 <ProzacElf> what, the orb of winter is just temporary?
18:38:45 <|amethyst> since this is C++ + SDL compiled down to javascript + canvas
18:39:00 <|amethyst> all the orbs are temporary except Dead Orbs (which do nothing)
18:39:04 <ProzacElf> ah
18:39:11 <|amethyst> oh, and Orbs of Yendor I guess
18:39:21 <ProzacElf> "you kill the dead ivy"
18:39:40 <ProzacElf> implying that it was less dead than the name would suggest
18:39:57 <|amethyst> hyperrogue doesn't have crawl's "kill"/"destroy" distinction
18:40:16 <ProzacElf> heh
18:41:26 <|amethyst> information on how it's implemented, if you're curious:  http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/dev.php
18:41:34 <advil> how do you even relocate an eldritch tentacle
18:42:05 <ProzacElf> mmmm
18:42:18 <ProzacElf> minkowski was the geometry name that was escaping me
18:42:23 <|amethyst> hm, maybe one of those trap vaults dropping a grate on top of it?
18:42:27 <ProzacElf> although as you and this page both point out
18:42:34 <ProzacElf> it's displayed as poincare
18:42:37 <advil> heh
18:42:51 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  as amalloy pointed out, by default
18:43:08 <ProzacElf> advil: pay the movers extra?
18:44:00 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  see the bottom of this page: http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/gallery.php
18:44:08 <|amethyst> ProzacElf:  (under "Alternative display")
18:44:51 <|amethyst> more info here http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/conformal.php
18:45:15 <ProzacElf> heh
18:45:21 <ProzacElf> the graveyard looks spooooooky
18:46:57 <ProzacElf> the gans model looks user friendly
18:47:27 <ProzacElf> oh neat, an android version
18:59:45 <advil> hmm maybe if you passwall into an malign portal
19:00:55 <advil> no, that just gets blocked
19:01:53 <amalloy> advil: xm in wizmode will move it, if that counts
19:02:39 <advil> that looks like it's using some different way of moving it
19:03:15 <advil> and you get a fun error message
19:03:24 <advil> Tentacle connect failed! What the heck!  severed status 0
19:06:07 <advil> why am I not surprised about who wrote tentacles
19:13:35 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-1034-gb277f92: Standardize tentacle cleanup 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b277f922f754
19:18:52 <Cheibriados> Escape hatch instead of stairs down in W:1 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11024 by Lavandula
19:19:42 <advil> heh
19:19:58 <advil> %git a69911aa251697e01
19:19:58 <Cheibriados> 07gammafunk02 * 0.20-a0-1011-ga69911a: Turn stairs in Tomb into fixed-destination escape hatches (Twitch chat) 10(3 weeks ago, 2 files, 168+ 122-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a69911aa2516
19:21:21 <advil> wonder how much more of that we're going to get
19:23:14 <advil> I have to admit that from the player perspective that escape hatch without knowing anything about what's on the other side (especially relative to old tomb layouts) is terrifying
19:24:06 <amalloy> tomb should be terrifying
19:24:20 <amalloy> it's nice to have the player empathising with the character
19:24:53 <advil> I just mean if you think the old layout is old tomb 2, write off that rune
19:25:37 <advil> is "Instead they can escape back to the previous level through corresponding escape hatch placed somewhere close by, within 12 spaces or so." explained somehow?
19:28:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
19:30:15 <MarvinPA> tomb hatches could probably get a custom name/desc, i think gammafunk suggested that but just didn't end up doing it for the branch's implementation
19:33:08 <advil> sounds reasonable
19:33:29 <|amethyst> could also use some text in the branch description
19:59:31 <alexjurkiewicz> <+amalloy> tomb should be terrifying <-- tomb is also significantly more spoilery now
20:08:18 <Zannick> tomb hatch = coffin lid?
20:08:29 <Zannick> empty grave?
20:08:39 <Zannick> bottomless grave?
20:09:22 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1034-gb277f92 (34)
20:09:47 -!- Silurio is now known as hittemvvvhard
20:11:01 -!- Dracunos is now known as cait
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20:24:50 <minmay> !learn del minmay's useless trivia
20:24:51 <Sequell> Deleted minmay's useless trivia[1/1]: <minqmay> it takes 488 hobgoblins to give as much xp as killing 1 hydra
21:35:25 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
21:42:47 <Floodkiller> Brannock: got your message, you there?
21:43:28 <elliptic> I see I missed ##hyperrogue hour here
21:43:47 <elliptic> (anyone who hasn't tried hyperrogue yet should go try it)
21:44:08 <Brannock> Floodkiller, that was from yesterday evening when you disconnected
21:44:26 <Floodkiller> ah, whoops
21:53:20 <rumflump> there's someone in ##hyperrogue named simply "i"
21:53:31 <rumflump> from what I know of irc, that person is an ancient and deadly hacker
22:24:05 <ProzacElf> lol
22:26:17 <geekosaur> i (agnes@crawl.develz.org)     :p
22:46:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
23:09:46 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
23:34:38 -!- grisha5 is now known as grisha5|AWAY
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