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For the whole game. Drop your starting shield. 01:39:52 ??mdfi[2 01:39:52 tartakower[2/3]: STATS: Raise Int to 8, then raise Str. SPELLS: Don't cast these. 01:40:04 Int to 8... 01:40:06 ??mdfi[3 01:40:06 tartakower[3/3]: GODS: Okawaru is best (in that order). WEAPONS: Stick with a hand axe until around 10 skill, depending on how comfortable you are with slow attacks. Upgrade to a broad or war axe, then a battleaxe, then an exec axe, as soon as your delay is about 12 or better. 01:40:59 was that back in the days of instant statdeath 01:41:16 that guide seems really bad though 01:41:34 I guess yesterday I thought that blinking was a sensible mutation for a bear spirit 01:41:41 lol 01:41:42 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:18 the nonsense things that slip through when you don't have a design team vetoing everything O.o 01:42:38 you might even remove stairs 01:43:01 hellmonk: I think it's meant partially tongue-in-cheek and partially to help people who want to think as little as possible 01:43:35 yeah, ok 01:43:35 what was their axe apt I wonder 01:44:03 !apt 0.8-md 01:44:04 Could not understand "0.8-md" 01:44:10 worth a shot 01:44:22 sequell only has one checkout of the source, yeah 01:44:32 chei has different versions of monster though 01:44:36 however that won't help for apts 01:44:44 Could not execute monster-0.8: No such file or directory 01:44:44 %0.8?gobling 01:44:46 Could not execute monster-0.8: No such file or directory 01:44:46 %0.8?goblin 01:44:51 goblin (15g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 2-6 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Damage: 4 | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1. 01:44:51 %0.9?goblin 01:44:56 0.9 apparently oldest one 01:45:01 hey, that's cool! 01:45:02 midge (095) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 806(blink) | Flags: 05demonic, fly | Res: 06magic(8), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 13. 01:45:02 %0.9?midge 01:45:09 rip midges 01:45:25 that kind of surprise bonus stuff is exactly why it's a good idea to try any query you can think of 01:45:44 I can't say I agree 01:45:45 very neat, all hail the snark! 01:45:50 however your enthusiasm is heartwarming 01:46:00 that one is all hail the |amethyst 01:46:23 s/snark/amethyst, then 01:46:32 snark runs sequell, |amethyst is the closest we have to monster maintainer (and he actually runs Cheibriados the bot) 01:47:13 not that the greenest snark shouldn't be praised 01:47:54 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:48:59 praise snark three times a day just in case. can't hurt 02:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:09 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:06 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:24 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:10:43 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:14:37 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 02:15:17 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:42 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:50 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:24:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:38:45 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:09 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:48:16 -!- cmcbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:31 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:58:59 -!- Doesnty has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:16 -!- Doesnty has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:43 -!- Idolo has quit [] 03:50:48 ??plan 03:50:48 plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans 03:52:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 04:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:23 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:29 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:34 would it reduce no-brainers, if DD had a very small built in makleb heal? or if mummies had duration reduction or stochastic resistance to confusion? 04:17:02 to widen up the god options 04:18:05 well people don't choose gozag on mummies because of confusion specifically, just because of the potions in general 04:18:56 for DD you have to consider that their current iteration is still brokenly strong 04:19:37 so you'd have to make some other adjustments 04:21:05 is DD scheduled for a nerf? 04:21:53 I used to assume that minotaurs were supposed to be the ceiling for species power, but I must have pulled that out of my butt because I don't see it written anywhere 04:21:53 you're talking about buffing them 04:22:06 well yeah, they'd need a nerf with the buff 04:22:19 I'm curious if they're scheduled for a nerf in general 04:22:21 -!- oleum has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:22:35 them being that way just sort of "emerged" from dpeg's design 04:22:44 and they've been around for a while 04:23:34 honestly, I just deleted this early save of frogs 04:23:41 called THEUSLURPER 04:23:49 but I still have absolutely no clue how I got this save 04:23:57 since I don't ever remember naming a character that 04:24:11 good slime knight name 04:24:18 I think my system was hacked 04:24:59 I was mildly worried someone had innocuously messed with my machine yesterday, but I think what actually happened is I fell asleep on the keyboard while editing .basrc 04:25:44 -!- Rewans has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:25:58 every new term session started with "bash: hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhk not found" 04:26:15 -!- Pinkbeas1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:28:10 left the editor open and a cat walked acrossed the keyboard 04:28:50 and accidentally designed a new crawl god 04:29:20 #lowhangingfruit 04:30:57 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:36 New branch created: no_item_transit (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/no_item_transit 04:31:36 03gammafunk02 07[no_item_transit] * 0.20-a0-904-ga917282: Remove item level transit code 10(32 minutes ago, 6 files, 14+ 120-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a91728250d6c 04:32:58 life keeps getting harder for savefile canaries 04:35:11 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:42:51 -!- tarabluh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:48:30 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:31 The build failed. (no_item_transit - a917282 #8113 : gammafunk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/213318898 04:48:31 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 04:50:11 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:51:47 mildly interesting: every single commit on this page is from one person https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commits/e07c2f1a4a 04:52:03 can you guess who without clicking? 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:58 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:15:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:51 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:21:38 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:17 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:22:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:05 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:24 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:11 -!- 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https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc#L764 06:42:32 !source flavour 2 06:42:33 2/5. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc#L584 06:42:36 !source flavour 3 06:42:37 3/5. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc#L406 06:50:01 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:08 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:52:06 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:12 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 06:52:51 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:36 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:55:45 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:06 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:57 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:04:20 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 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Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:05 -!- DarkwingDuck has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:46:11 shucks 09:46:20 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:47:10 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:41 -!- quik has quit [Quit: Preferiste a dormir conmigo pasar las noches sola soñando] 09:52:48 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:53 -!- Furril has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:11 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:35 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:08:10 dpeg: what's up? 10:09:00 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:25 Lasty_: there's been talk about merging U and WJC (which I understand to mean: add WJC moves to U). Wanted to ask on your opinion, because you're the godfather of U. 10:15:59 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:22:26 <|amethyst> if you do, the resulting god should start with the letter triple-u 10:23:00 does anyone know why mutclass_innate isn't making permanent mutations? http://dpaste.com/1M9Q835 10:23:13 <|amethyst> because it doesn't 10:23:29 <|amethyst> you need perma_mutate for that, but as you noticed you can't use that with a random mutation 10:23:56 <|amethyst> MUTCLASS_INNATE forces the mutation through, even if you're undead 10:24:47 ahhh, that's what that's for! 10:24:50 <|amethyst> you'll want to call _get_random_mutation(RANDOM_BEAR_MUTATION) (with the appropriate change to that function) then perma_mutate that 10:25:10 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:26 <|amethyst> the change being case RANDOM_BEAR_MUTATION: mt = mutflag::bear; break; or whatever your flag is called 10:25:37 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:57 okay, thanks, I was getting nowhere with perma evolve 10:26:00 <|amethyst> or you could make a separate _get_random_bear_mutation function like the qazlal one just above 10:28:41 oh you know, I did copy that get_random_qaz thing in mutation.cc, but I didn't think to try using it in player.cc, whoops 10:28:49 |amethyst: <3 (on UUU) 10:29:30 Lasty_: and while I think that could be done, I also believe that a god like WJC can stand on its own. 10:29:40 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32:07 <|amethyst> rumflump: well, arguably you should put all this logic into a function gain_bear_mutation in mutation.cc, then call *that* from player.cc 10:32:27 <|amethyst> ooh, ooh 10:32:33 <|amethyst> you could call the function 10:32:38 <|amethyst> bear_witness_to_evolution 10:32:56 lal 10:33:03 <|amethyst> and with that, I'm off. later! 10:33:15 thanks for the boost 10:33:33 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43:33 -!- debo has quit [Quit: o/] 10:45:20 dpeg: The thought of adding those moves to Uskayaw did cross my mind; they would work well and have necessary context on that god. That said, I don't want to steal them and thereby doom WJC. But at this point I'm not certain that WJC is not already doomed. 10:45:45 I just posted on the tavern a message in the merge thread to SteelNeuron. 10:46:39 I do think the moves would work better on Uskayaw, since the context provides significantly better support for them, and we could drop the damage bonuses and statuses 10:47:05 And Usk's built-in piety cost for non-combat moves would help balance wall jump 10:49:29 yes to all of this 10:50:15 what crossed my mind was this: we could have different to approaches here, this is about encouraging attack over defense, and fighting many enemies rather than one 10:50:23 U does this, in a nice and unique way. 10:51:02 but it's safer to gain U piety with a crossbow 10:51:44 WJC could do this in another way. Here's one suggestion: keep the passive damage (whirlwind, lunge), remove the status effects. Add passive *defensive* powers when next to more than enemy. 10:51:54 The last bit is vague, and I have ideas for that, too :) 10:53:24 rumflump: yeah, ranged combat is always a problem. c.f. long-rumored ranged reform. 10:53:52 there's not currently a need to expose yourself to danger on U, just make sure to do damage regularly in the safest way possible. it's thematically a god of jumping in to do aoe, but afaik that's the wrong way to play it? 10:54:11 dpeg: I believe SteelNeuron is firmly opposed to that as well, tho I don't feel that we necessarily have to agree with him. 10:54:11 I do rather enjoy the god though! 10:54:49 The god wasn't intended to force you to jump in, but rather that it would reward you for jumping in more than most. 10:55:01 It's supposed to be a general enough god that you can use it a variety of ways 10:56:13 Using magic with the god is interesting, in that it generally gives you some AOE and range (good), but the god's powers tend to be less effective/too expensive. Ranged weapons are less interesting, for many of the reasons that make them generally uninteresting. 10:56:29 But I'd rather solve that by (eventually) fixing ranged combat than deforming the god. 10:56:54 yeah, that's one of the things I like about it. not a hit with stick god, nor a spell knowledge god, just supports your damage dealing 10:59:58 btw, that 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:23 's why I'd like to try something else before adding WJC moves to Uskayaw: it makes a broad god less broad. 11:00:59 Lasty_: SteelNeuron seems to be very bitter by now. We should try what we can to make the god ready for stable. Sentiments will not help. 11:02:59 yep 11:03:19 By contrast, WJC is very much a melee god, so I aim to build on that. Here is one way how the god could add defensive power: when you're attacked by several monsters at once (this can be technically hard to do!), then the attack with maximal damage proceeds, the others have a chance (going up with piety, up to 90%, say) of not happening. 11:03:36 dpeg: I disagree re: god broadness. If the moves give no bonus damage, they're useful for any character rather than forcing an archetype. 11:03:38 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:55 Lasty_: not quite, imo 11:04:12 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:18 (I want to avoid that players keep company of low level monsters. The above model avoids that.) 11:04:28 oh god, my grammar :O 11:07:02 I am driven by the following observation: no matter how much bonus damage you get, it will be better to fight 1 on 1. (I call this the axe effect.) So a purely offensive boost is not going to break the defensive paradigm of Crawl (see what Uksy does to address this). If, on the other hand, you don't become more exposed, then that can change. Needless to say, the defensive power could be arbitrarily 11:07:08 strong. For example, instead of not attacking you, ... 11:07:10 ... those guys could attack each other. 11:07:44 that's very ru 11:08:53 rumflump: design space's getting tight! 11:09:00 better ideas welcome :) 11:09:11 Lasty_: excellent forum posting to Pablo 11:10:07 well, the damage you take could be split equally with them maybe. the post-AC damage 11:10:11 though that's very spiny :( 11:12:45 rumflump: part of the damage they inflict on you goes to each neighbour (same amount, up to 100% at full piety)? 11:12:46 if bonus damage scaled more than linearly with adjacent monster count, couldn't that make it worthwhile to fight multiple things? (not that I'm saying this is a good solution) 11:13:49 G-Flex|: don't know. Two points: (1) that models supports bringing chatter into big battles. (2) You are still encouraged to avoid damage. 11:17:08 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:09 yeah 11:17:11 -!- G-Flex| is now known as G-Flex 11:17:33 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:38 obviously a god needs a martial ability to redirect incoming attacks to adjacent monsters 11:22:14 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:16 just some ideas, I think the very basic concept of WJC (the moves, devoid of special stuff -- except for walljump) can work if coupled with a growing defensive boost 11:26:09 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:28:17 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 11:28:27 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:36 -!- zxc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:00 Here's another idea I wanted to bring up (from SA): what about moving the Monk background from "Warrior" to "Zealot"? 11:33:10 In some regard, that'd fit better. 11:39:51 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:01 it would emphasize its intended advantage 11:40:07 especially now that they get a weapon choice 11:42:56 dpeg: I apologise about being bitter, although I'm sure you can understand why to some degree. 11:43:47 SteelNeuron, you were asking about unrealengine earlier; which version? 11:43:58 Lasty: I just read you bring up that you don't have to agree with me about status effects and martial moves, and that's fine. But I would like to know if you got around to reading my point on feedback loops (especially the last one at SA). I really think that's where the problem is and we haven't talked about it at all 11:44:08 G-Flex: 4 11:44:17 oh, can't help you then, sorry 11:44:33 if you want me to complain about hitboxes in original unreal engine though, I can do that 11:45:28 Every time you have brought up removing the status effects from martial attacks I think you have framed it as a balance issue, but it's not at all 11:47:44 When I say that removing status effects break the god, it's because they remove the incentive to ever consider if you should stop doing what you are currently doing 11:48:25 if you are spamming wall jump, or spamming whirlwind, you have no reason to stop if there's no associated status effect, that's where the "adadadad" meme comes from, and that's what people find tedious 11:49:05 granted, the old whirlwind was guilty of this because it was too damaging, but that's a problem with its damage, not the effect 11:49:10 it is just as spammable now 11:49:28 -!- zxc__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:09 merging with Uskayaw will not do anything to alleviate any of this, will just force you to take some other actions before falling in the mindless loop again 11:50:38 even adding an exhaustion cost to all martial attacks would be a better direction 11:52:37 -!- zxc_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:56:48 SteelNeuron: afaui, you intended the moves to work in combos, and that's why they have status effects reinforcing each *other* (not themselves) 11:57:49 this sounds really cool, and I was impressed when I saw this; otoh, my games did not really show this (for example, the confusion was always too short to matter). Then again, it wasn't a problem because using the moves themselves was good enough on their own. 11:58:51 Honestly, combos weren't necessarily my goal, but rather making sure that neither of thre three were overcentralising or tempting to spam 11:59:19 I fell short of that, but because whirlwind and wall jump are too damaging on their own 11:59:24 if that was the goal, it didn't really work out, imp 11:59:26 imo 11:59:28 I agree 11:59:40 but it's not a big issue, as long as things are in a flux 11:59:44 But the status effects are helping 11:59:47 it's the damage that isn't 11:59:53 sure, status effects can help here 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:05 you know that I always had problems with fully free walljumps 12:00:43 but did you see that I believe the god should get a proper (=strong, thematic, passive) defensive boost? 12:01:05 I do, but I'm still unsure what exactly is so unpalatable about free walljumps 12:01:14 do you think they are much worse than, say, being a centaur? 12:03:07 there is a major difference: by choosing a centaur, I commit myself to a game full of kiting and (imo) abuse. That's a one-off choice before game start. 12:03:19 The god can be added on to any character. 12:03:36 This is similar to how spells need to be a lot more carefully balanced than consumables. 12:04:02 how about the blink spell? 12:04:39 Alright, I'm not being constructive. Look, I don't want to point fingers at other things that could be "bad design" in order to justify this one 12:04:49 What I'm trying to get at is that we are conflating luring with kiting 12:04:54 luring is an endemic problem in crawl 12:04:56 we have been nerfing space management tools since ever... sometimes new ones pop up (Golubria), but we have an eye on all of these 12:05:15 if you have a tile of distance with an enemy, you can lure it wherever, that's irrespective of your choices in the game unless you are a naga or a chei worshipper 12:05:39 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:42 blaming the tools that allow you to get that initial tile of distance seems a bit excessive 12:05:48 that's why I was excited about your dynamic monsters branch 12:05:49 the bigger problem imo with free walljumps is you can use them to travel 12:05:53 you can lure adjacent enemies 12:06:06 and it is optimal to do so because of piety decay 12:06:06 because it attacked the root of the problem, even if not in an ideal way 12:06:06 yes, but there is no need to equip the new god with a free, extra luring power -- I think it possible to keep walljump and have it mostly be used in the intended sense (the current fix is simple and heavy-handed, others are possible) 12:06:09 rather than using ctrl+g which will not optimize your travel 12:06:22 If so, how about this: 12:06:26 wall jump can be used to land near an enemy 12:06:30 or to jump away from one 12:06:30 movespeed/kiting is such a powerful block of cheese, I would want a kiting god to be "the kiting abuse god" and do little else, if such a thing had to exist. wjc changes the game so that moving around in combat doesn't hurt you, which is awesome even without speed/kiting abuse 12:06:41 SteelNeuron: yes, that was one of things floating around 12:06:50 that is much better I think 12:06:58 because it keeps the interaction between wall jump and lunve 12:07:00 lunge* 12:07:06 which isn't there anymore 12:07:26 if travel over extended distances is really the problem, then that's fine 12:07:30 SteelNeuron: the current version (can only jump to a monster) in principle allows for other cool stuff, tho. Such as a really strong effect, increasing with the number of monsters you jump next to. 12:08:01 but that goes back to what I was saying before, that wall jump and whirlwind should be moving towards being utility, not damage 12:08:08 I just played a few WJCs, and there's still ample lunge opportunities, but you need more than one enemy 12:08:31 if you give wall jump offensive effects that don't give any diminishing returns, once you find yourself in a wall jump spam position, why would you stop 12:08:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:47 If anything, wall jump should retain the distraction and lose all damage 12:09:06 so you can use it to shake up the surroundings and find better opportunities 12:09:59 gotta go soon: SteelNeuron, I will try to keep WJC as a separate god (because I believe the design space is there, and the moves work so well) -- I know you'll be upset by the god's morphing, but hopefully you can still see it as your child, at some point. 12:10:24 sometimes kids go off to college 12:10:29 and do a LOT of drugs 12:10:36 dpeg: It's alright. You see, if there is something that irks me the most is that people tiptoe around me as if this was about my designer vision or me protecting "my idea" 12:10:52 It really is not anymore 12:10:59 my idea has floating weapons and weapon stealing 12:11:16 yes ") 12:11:16 erm, :) 12:11:16 I do think that's more fun, I just chose to shut up about it a long time ago and instead implement everyone's good ideas 12:11:42 status effects aside, this iteration belongs to Lasty as much as it does to me 12:12:02 design is so open: a billion ideas, many of them good, but each decision forces follow-ups 12:12:05 so I found it a bit surprising that even though devs have been involved for a while, the climate has suddenly changed from "this is converging to something good" to "this is hopelessly broken, please rework" 12:12:43 I've not been on ##crawl-dev for a bit, didn't notice (only second-hand). 12:13:29 at least you've given SA an eternal mascot (even if they drove me away, once again, haha) 12:15:56 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 12:16:28 SteelNeuron: gotta really go now, kids are waiting: whatever happens to the god (so even in the worst case): you have established these moves, and I am pretty sure they'll be used in Crawl in one way or another. We've been talking about stuff like this for years, and now it exists, thanks to you! 12:16:46 See you later! 12:17:33 bye! 12:17:49 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:20:35 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:23:35 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:04 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:34 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:44 oh, oops 12:42:50 my local changes didn't get commit to the branch 12:43:12 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:57 03gammafunk02 07[no_item_transit] * 0.20-a0-904-gd863c46: Remove item level transit code 10(9 hours ago, 7 files, 14+ 125-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d863c46bfc54 12:48:29 %git 1688c67564 12:48:30 07jpeg02 * 0.4-a0-815-g1688c67: The accuracy of dragon breath is now halved if you're wielding a weapon of dragon slaying (with the somewhat weak reasoning that a dragon will try to avert its eyes from your awful weapon). 10(9 years ago, 6 files, 38+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1688c6756463 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:15 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:07 amazing 13:03:42 -!- zxc__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:09:14 dear god 13:12:25 !remove item level transit code 13:12:25 Dracunos: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:12:26 03Dracunos ⛐ 0.20-a0-2030-g5786276: Remove item level transit code 10(in the future, 46 files, 625+ 961-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5786276 13:13:51 heh, good one 13:14:13 another classic Dracunos joke 13:15:54 what's wrong gammafunk 13:16:24 what's wrong Dracunos 13:16:49 World Hunger 13:19:11 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.0.1/20170316213829]] 13:19:57 -!- Shard1697_ is now known as Shard1697 13:22:04 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:59 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:58 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:05 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:10 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:13 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:34:24 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:43 wow, small logs recently 13:34:43 Brannock: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:34:46 kind of quiet dys 13:36:13 !tell SteelNeuron Sorry I missed you in channel earlier. I think it would be good if we had a chance to chat. 13:36:14 Lasty_: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 13:36:16 |amethyst, have you considered trimming join/quit messages from the logs? or maybe restricting it to people with +v only? they clutter up these logs, especially for slow periods 13:36:33 Lasty_, just messaged you but sorry for the messup on Stomp. Didn't look at the code 13:36:37 Surprised you didn't correct that yet though 13:40:47 Brannock: I wasn't sure if you'd prefer to do it or prefer that I just change it. That small uncertainty plus life meant I didn't do it yet 13:40:54 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:57 haha, well 13:41:00 you know more about Usk than I do! 13:41:10 plus, I've been away. 13:41:14 ditto 13:41:18 tritto 13:41:28 I didn't want to assume I knew what your goal was in the rephrasing 13:41:46 my goal was mostly to clean up the language, I got the actual mechanics wrong 13:42:59 the WJC changes are very unpopular I see. I'm a little disappointed that Slow was stripped without a replacement ready to keep the three martial moves system functioning. As SN has been explaining, removing that broke the unity between the three. I understand it's a work-in-progress, though 13:43:29 I just want to express a word of caution, because I've seen this happen before: removing things and planning to replace them in the future usually ends up with the replacement never coming 13:43:36 well I don't know about "very unpopular" 13:44:10 I haven't caught up with 4chan/tavern yet and there's not a peep on r/dcss as far as I can tell 13:44:20 I've certainly heard from players that the old system was annoying 13:44:24 ditto 13:44:45 IMO the goal of the pre-change design is bad: that you should want to continuously be cycling martial commands 13:44:56 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:57 The build was fixed. (no_item_transit - d863c46 #8114 : gammafunk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/213484290 13:44:57 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 13:45:02 i certainly didn't have any particular plans to replace slow with anything, i think removing it is a perfectly good standalone change 13:45:02 but SA is rather upset about it, and SN has expressed some very thorough explanations for why it broke the god. I agree that the pre-change design wasn't ideal 13:45:03 yeah, if that's to mean you want to be doing that most of the time 13:45:25 I believe that it slows down the game without adding meaningful complexity. I find it tiring, and I believe that many players will tire of it quickly. 13:45:27 MarvinPA, maybe I misread some of the exchanges a few days ago but I thought there was talk about extending the Distraction mechanic? 13:45:41 he did extend the duration already 13:45:44 if I misread then my bad and I retract the couple of sentences above about the replacement 13:45:57 %git :/[Dd]istract 13:45:57 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-899-g09a9bfb: Adjust WJC distraction 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/09a9bfb583aa 13:45:57 sorry, extending it as in to the other actions, not just WJ 13:46:12 oh 13:46:15 reworking distraction would be a separate good thing, but not related to the whirlwind stuff 13:46:17 I would strongly prefer a design where you use the move that's good in your situation or tab if no move is better than tab. That's sharply at odds with SteelNeuron's goals. 13:46:27 it still needs changing after that commit, that was just a minor cleanup 13:46:33 I see, oaky 13:46:36 also okay 13:48:50 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:49:04 I'm not sure what this merge of WJC into Uskayaw would look like. Martial arts, Line Pass, Pain Bond, Grand Finale? 13:49:18 that was my vague thought on seeing the suggestion, yeah 13:49:18 No bonus damage/statuses on the martial arts, I think 13:49:25 martial arts minus walljump probably, since linepass does that 13:49:39 one thing with usk I found was 13:49:44 I didn't use linepass much at all 13:49:50 Yeah, IMO it would basically be Usk w/o Stomp, gaining martial arts at *, gaining walljump at 3-4* or not at all. 13:49:53 I think getting rid of Stomp is a good idea. I've told Lasty a few times in the past that Stomp is just really really strong and not in a terribly interesting way 13:50:02 It's incredibly reliable and requires a lot of 'aa' 13:50:04 would this new god give more reason to use that? 13:50:04 And yeah, no damage or statuses on martial arts 13:50:16 I agree that Stomp is the weakest element on Usk 13:50:30 gammafunk: I use line pass pretty often 13:50:36 IMO it's pretty solid 13:50:38 perhaps I was underusing it some 13:50:42 !log . uskayaw won 13:50:43 2. brannock, XL27 DsVM, T:89950: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/morgue/brannock/morgue-brannock-20161118-200655.txt 13:50:51 I used it a few times early on 13:50:53 312 stomp, 4 grand finale, 0 line pass 13:51:06 !log . uskayaw won -2 13:51:06 1/2. brannock, XL27 DsEn, T:112902: https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/morgue/brannock/morgue-brannock-20161114-163448.txt 13:51:06 Pretty much any time you think "I wish I was in a different place relative to the monsters" and there's a monster next to you, it's a good option 13:51:06 later when I figured out how the passives worked 13:51:09 I stopped using stomp so much 13:51:11 157 stomp, 3 line pass, 22 grand finale 13:51:16 using stomp was less optimal than just getting your piety up 13:51:21 and letting the passives do work 13:51:23 yeah 13:51:24 !lg lasty won usk -log 13:51:25 4. Lasty, XL26 DsAr, T:54934: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Lasty/morgue-Lasty-20161128-142451.txt 13:51:25 especially later on 13:51:28 right 13:51:35 i never really found line pass useful for positioning 13:51:38 stomp is great for killer bee packs though :P 13:51:41 just for the confusion 13:51:53 Stomp: 30, Line Pass: 31, Grand Finale: 33 13:51:57 very balanced 13:52:04 clearly fake news! 13:52:07 I tend to underuse god powers a bit 13:52:22 I think I underused grand finale 13:52:31 so much so that you had to design a god who passively uses god powers on your behalf 13:52:32 it can be easy to forget due the the "limit break" thing 13:52:41 amalloy: you know it! 13:52:52 Lasty.rc is just another passive win bot 13:52:52 two, even! 13:52:54 amalloy: there's a reason both the gods I made have strong passives and sometimes-use actives 13:53:01 gammafunk: that's slander! 13:53:08 Lasty.rc is a passive splatbot 13:53:09 !lg devteamnp recent won s=name 13:53:10 189 games for devteamnp (recent won): 57x Lasty, 24x elliptic, 20x Brannock, 19x gammafunk, 17x Medar, 13x MarvinPA, 12x amalloy, 11x dpeg, 7x itsmu, 5x PleasingFungus, 2x doy, wheals, wormsofcan 13:53:20 look at that outlier, clearly a bot 13:53:21 is advil on that yet? 13:53:25 oh 13:53:27 !lg lasty recent !won zot:5 13:53:28 3. Lasty the Ecstatic (L26 GrVM of Uskayaw), splashed by an ancient lich's acid (kmap: hall_of_Zot) on Zot:5 on 2017-02-01 01:03:52, with 563143 points after 65585 turns and 4:48:17. 13:53:30 !nick devteamnp advil 13:53:31 Mapping devteamnp => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu marvinpa evilmike sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm bh frogbotherer samb dracoomega mumra medar hangedman sage wheals gammafunk pleasingfungus 78291 lasty reaver amalloy brannock wormsofcan advil 13:53:37 !nick devteam advil 13:53:38 Mapping devteam => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rax rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu greensnark marvinpa evilmike sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm bh frogbotherer napkin samb dracoomega mumra medar hangedman sage wheals gammafunk pleasingfungus 78291 lasty reaver amalloy brannock wormsofcan advil 13:53:38 oh wait, that last splat was on the orb run] 13:53:39 sounds like dev_checklist.txt is missing the most important step 13:53:44 yes! 13:53:56 wow, wheals comes back to troll about my work 13:53:58 I see how it is 13:54:21 next I'll get a !tell from Grunt with a dunk 13:54:22 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:25 i like to think it's an important contribution 13:54:33 i'm surprised i have a recent win 13:54:34 Lasty_: actually i don't really put ru in that category. the passives are okay but not great, and the god powers are there to be leaned on heavily 13:54:39 !lg devteamnp recent won s=name 13:54:40 194 games for devteamnp (recent won): 57x Lasty, 24x elliptic, 20x Brannock, 19x gammafunk, 17x Medar, 13x MarvinPA, 12x amalloy, 11x dpeg, 7x itsmu, 5x PleasingFungus, 5x advil, 2x doy, wheals, wormsofcan 13:54:49 so you do 13:54:54 !lg devteamnp current trunk won s=name 13:54:55 37 games for devteamnp (current trunk won): 28x Lasty, 3x gammafunk, 2x advil, 2x itsmu, dpeg, brannock 13:55:02 !lg . trunk 13:55:03 3001. wheals the Conjurer (L4 MuCj), blasted by an orc wizard (puff of flame) on D:3 on 2016-07-07 20:02:19, with 95 points after 2831 turns and 0:04:00. 13:55:03 Ru's passive aura contributes a *lot* of damage reduction over time 13:55:04 devs confirmed to hate trunk 13:55:10 it's been 10,000 years 13:55:19 tabstorm told me in stream that online crawl is in decline 13:55:21 this confirms 13:55:45 wow I had no idea Lasty had been so active winning games lately 13:55:45 Lasty_: btw did you see 13:55:50 !lg mikee won dith 13:55:51 No games for mikee (won dith). 13:55:54 hrm 13:55:55 !nick mikee 13:55:56 Mapping mikee => mikee hypermikee 13:56:05 dunno why he doesn't have his other account there 13:56:16 !lg tartakower won dith 13:56:16 1. tartakower the Grand Master (L27 DsVM of Dithmenos), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-02-25 10:58:30, with 1607500 points after 78255 turns and 10:15:44. 13:56:20 Lasty_: mikee finally won dith 13:56:59 Ru's damage reduction is, on average, about +15% hp 13:57:17 Brannock: 13:57:21 hrm, which passive does this refer to 13:57:21 !streak lasty mu 13:57:22