00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:22 -!- freechips has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:03:18 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:44 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:04 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:02 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:53 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:31:41 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-820-g557356e (34) 00:36:03 -!- Ystah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:40 -!- tksquared has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:44:39 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:48 -!- jefus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 00:49:59 -!- Perryman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:20 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:57:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:27 -!- rhovland has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:20:07 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-820-g557356e (34) 01:25:32 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 01:26:01 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:31 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:15 -!- twelwe has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:31 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:56 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-820-g557356e 01:58:13 -!- dextur has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:11 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:45 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:22:15 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: 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crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-820-g557356e (34) 03:41:40 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:57 -!- orbisvicis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:36 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:08 -!- eb_ has quit [] 04:11:47 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:13:22 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:10 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:58 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:44 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:47 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:34:10 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:54:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:56 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:45 -!- Chronozari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:57 -!- ig0rb1t has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:53 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:42:24 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:24 -!- rhovland has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:47:06 -!- genericpseudonym has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:48 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 05:55:34 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:16 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:58:12 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:59:21 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:14 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:03:28 -!- genericpseudonym has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:34:06 -!- rumflump has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:33 -!- hittemvvvmobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:47 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:21 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:43:00 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:24 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:45:28 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:13 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:28 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:14 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:20 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:36 -!- AngelaSmythe has quit [] 08:35:16 I guess mesmerize starting must not currently cancel stair climbing 08:35:35 since it is interrupted in the same way as passwall 08:37:41 it seems a bit tricky to get the interruption right 08:37:48 especially including fearmongers 08:39:49 maybe it shouldn't interrupt at all, at least for passwall 08:41:14 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:40 oh I guess canofworm's case was specifically when mesmerize moved you 08:43:47 hm 08:46:16 -!- epsilonhalbe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:46 there's a more basic issue which is that you can use passwall to move in a direction inconsistent with mesmerization 08:50:59 %git 039fe6a59f2a 08:50:59 07MarvinPA02 * 0.19-a0-1422-g039fe6a: Fix various forced movements not interrupting delays (such as Passwall) 10(6 months ago, 6 files, 17+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/039fe6a59f2a 08:51:06 I think this fixed everything but passwall :-) 08:53:51 -!- cxr_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:53:57 -!- hittemvvvhard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:27 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:59:52 hm, really? i think passwall was the only thing i really tested it with 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:14 well, it's possible the check got moved around but I didn't see it there 09:00:15 since passwall + wind drakes or whatever made it easy to repro 09:00:20 ah 09:00:29 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:00:33 right, ok, it does fix passwall 09:00:34 sorry 09:00:44 just not for mesmerize, I was getting myself confused 09:01:16 I'm adding the check for mesmerize 09:01:23 ah ok, it's all very messy and all over the place so i imagine mesmerise just got missed, yeah 09:01:29 since everything needs handling individually :( 09:01:37 it seems bad that passwall can move you away from mesmerize, right? 09:01:49 well, it's a neat trick if you know about it 09:01:55 but spoilery and inconsistent seeming 09:02:21 I'm working on a fix for mesmerize 09:02:53 heh, also, you are still mesmerized once you get to the other side 09:03:25 i don't see a problem with allowing passwall necessarily 09:03:34 it's all sort of a mess though 09:04:28 i assume you can go through passages of golubria to get further away, for example 09:04:55 probably, unless it uses _move_player 09:05:07 since that's the only place where mesmerize movement is checked that I spotted 09:05:24 oh you can't enter passages with when mesmerised, what a mess 09:05:34 ah right it probably does 09:05:36 you can walk into them normally just fine 09:05:42 oh 09:05:43 hm 09:06:09 they probably just get caught by an assumption that you're trying to leave the level or something 09:06:12 yeah 09:06:29 as a result you can't shop while mesmerised 09:06:35 lol 09:06:39 or pray, probably 09:06:51 I'm sort of inclined to block the passwall case? 09:07:20 I already wrote some code to centralize the messaging so it could be used for other cases 09:07:50 also can't pray or shop while a tree, or while in a net 09:08:19 those seem legit 09:08:26 I am also unable to shop while being a tree 09:08:37 praying less so 09:08:39 well, you could pray while a tree when it used p 09:08:42 -!- flow has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:09:17 in general they're not movement actions and this is specifically for preventing movement actions, i think best to just not block any of them 09:09:35 ok 09:09:44 <|amethyst> if mesmerise doesn't block passwall, why should it block blinking? 09:10:00 I guess my thinking was that you do pick a direction when you decide to passwall 09:10:19 cblink I don't know 09:10:28 i'd tend towards saying that it shouldn't block blinking really, since you're either using up a scroll or casting a l8 spell there 09:10:45 <|amethyst> or casting an L2 spell and rolling the dice 09:11:11 random blink already lets you blink further away 09:11:16 <|amethyst> oh, it does? 09:11:22 yeah 09:11:30 oh it does block cblink 09:12:14 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:02 for passage with regular movement, it seems like it should work if you are normally permitted move towards the passage opening, which is the current behavior except for <> 09:15:54 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:46 so if passwall is ok then the bug is that mesmerize isn't canceled until 1 turn after you leave los 09:18:39 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:20:13 this is more complicated than it seemed an hour ago 09:21:13 & the messaging is done in like 5 different places 09:21:16 blocks power leap too 09:22:39 -!- Chronozari has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:30 and shadow step, and hop (since it uses cblink handling), although that's another weird one since you can still end up hopping further away anyway as with random blink 09:27:08 I'm going to just commit the delay fix for now since that is one line and simple 09:27:42 it seems like there are two options: (i) prevent everything, (ii) prevent nothing except ordinary movement 09:27:49 (ii) is more interesting tactically 09:29:44 well, I'll commit it assuming I don't screw up the repository I'm working in 09:29:46 i feel like 2 is also clearer, since under 1 it's not obvious how randomised sources of movement (random blink, hop etc) work without looking it up 09:30:00 yeah I'm coming to agree 09:30:18 I do still feel like the passwall case will be counterintuitive because of the way it uses movement cases, but (ii) is just more consistent 09:30:19 and the special-cased things it blocks currently do have real costs to using, for the most part 09:30:32 *movement keys 09:31:35 <|amethyst> okay, what about (1) wall-jumping away from the mesmeriser by "moving" towards-ish it, and (2) the reverse ? 09:31:43 heh 09:31:48 right now wall-jump seems to be exempt 09:31:57 though I just looked at the code, didn't test it carefully 09:31:58 i think currently you can't do 2 09:32:29 not due to anything intentional, just as a consequence of how it's implemented 09:32:46 oh I misread 09:32:58 it's "if (beholder && !attacking && !can_wall_jump)" 09:33:06 which I think is just to get the messaging straight 09:37:47 another issue is should mesmerize & fear have the same properties with respect to all these 09:45:19 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:48 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:54:35 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:54 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-821-g8f2c41c: Cancel passwall on forced movement from mesmerize (CanOfWorms) 10(32 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8f2c41c6ec48 09:55:04 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:55:18 :) 09:57:06 I spent like 10 minutes try to test that before realizing that only avatars force you to move 09:59:09 lol 09:59:13 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:10 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:35 -!- snux has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:08:23 are there any branches where someone has coded monsters to follow you when you take the stairs? 10:09:30 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-821-g8f2c41c (34) 10:11:36 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:39 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:28 -!- jefus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:16:52 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:33 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:17:34 rumflump: ? 10:17:40 like, even if they aren't initially next to you? 10:17:55 yeah 10:17:57 either crawl alternative or crawl light did that 10:17:59 i forget which 10:18:03 apparently it didn't work out very well 10:18:40 everything in LOS, or everything that's aware of you. whichever is easier to get working tbh, but I think aware of you / knows where you are would be my preference 10:18:44 just made it easier to deal with stairdancing situations, since you could lure enemies away from a nasty stair situation and over to somewhere easier to fight them (and break up their groups in the progress) 10:18:45 I'lll look at those, thanks 10:19:05 keep in mind that both are very very old, so the amount of code you'll be able to reuse is minimal 10:19:06 ah, it was even worse than regular stairdancing? 10:19:19 so i'm told. haven't tried it myself 10:19:38 brogue is a different game and things work differently there :) 10:20:02 hellcrawl takes a different approach to this (that I thought was more clever), getting hit simply interrupts stair movement 10:20:08 anyway, i don't want to discourage you from experimenting 10:20:09 at least that's what I saw in a changelog 10:20:34 ya 10:20:38 horrifying 10:20:55 he's removing up-stairs in the next version anyway, so you've got a limited time to steal :) 10:20:59 heh 10:21:16 but git is magic 10:21:26 ya that wasn't actually true 10:21:32 i was lying. 10:21:37 (about having limited time) 10:21:45 I just hate how easy it is to get monsters off your tail, especially when it splits a group 10:22:28 there've been a few suggestions to improve that 10:22:58 remove energy cost from monster swapping, make monster actions ordered from those closest to the player to those furthest away 10:23:13 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:23:45 would that bring the whole group? 10:23:54 I have no idea how energy really works 10:24:02 it's witchcraft 10:24:06 or let the whole group attack while you climb? 10:24:23 don't think that's relevant 10:25:32 wow, wnat an entry vault, looks like a thrilling siege - better bring them up 2 at a time and fight them in my ogre-skeleton-arena 10:25:59 that sort of thing 10:26:16 that's crawl, bb 10:26:20 -!- Ystah has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28:05 yeah. it is very "roguey" to split their groups and pick them off one at a time, at least ;) 10:30:31 it's not like those cool overwhelming entries were designed with the *expectation* that people would fight them head-on 10:30:36 or that they'd do so successfully, anyway 10:30:42 like, that one vaults entry with the ring of humans 10:30:55 the expectation there is that you leave or you die 10:31:34 (pity that ell*ptic ruined that vault a while back... #neverforget) 10:32:09 huh, player_reacts isn't triggered at the end of a delay apparently? 10:32:20 that's gonna cause all sorts of weird passwall interactions 10:33:45 that no one will ever notice because they're so rare 10:33:57 nice 10:35:40 like, you can passwall adjacent to a slime wall and it won't damage you (confirmed) 10:36:26 is that a problem 10:36:28 heh 10:36:34 no idea? 10:36:47 imagine if you died by passwalling next to a previously-unknown slmie wall.. 10:36:47 you're meditating on the slime so 10:36:57 for a brief few moments, you are one with the slime 10:37:04 Pleasingfungus: ah, maybe that would be the rationale for this 10:37:09 probably not 10:37:11 it cannot hurt you, for you are one with the slime wall (plus the whole universe) 10:37:14 since it sounds like it's a more general thing 10:37:34 not calling player-reacts would also mean that no durations would decrement or trigger over-time effects 10:37:51 right...it does trigger on other turns of the delay though 10:37:53 just not the last 10:38:21 so some stuff will just advance but miss a turn 10:38:37 nice 10:39:25 this is where fearmongers/beholders update also, that's what I was looking into 10:40:32 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:40:48 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:42:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:52 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:53 The build has errored. (master - 8f2c41c #8019 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/207688188 10:42:53 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 10:42:54 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:47 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:11 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:50:01 ok, I see the issue -- the turn where you arrive on the other side of the rock is sort of a fake turn, I assume in order to prevent stuff like monsters having time to hit you 10:50:23 and so therefore turn_is_over isn't set, and end-of-turn stuff doesn't happen at all 10:50:51 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:10 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:52:05 another fun one: if you passwall while singing (assuming that is possible, haven't checked) into a silenced region, your song won't end immediately 10:52:11 laa 10:54:03 feels sort of like stuff needs to be moved from "happens at end of turn" to "happens when moving into a new place"... or moved into some function called from both, i guess 10:55:25 yeah 10:56:20 right now calling player_reacts from the delay finish seems like a bad idea, most of the stuff here would be ok but probably not all 10:56:55 and some of this is checked elsewhere in addition (constriction) 10:59:34 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:59:41 the ordering of these makes that refactoring idea kind of non-trivial though 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:15 are there still mimics? 11:03:42 rune mimics, I've seen 11:03:51 I haven't seen one in ages 11:03:56 in shoals 4, and xom does altar mimics 11:04:13 it looks like an overflow vault but surprise, it's a xom vault! 11:05:16 -!- wasd64 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:06:42 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:07 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:26:53 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:30:39 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:52 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:34 -!- fiyawerx_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:35:15 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:35:37 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:27 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:24 the shoals:4 mimics are my fault 11:46:27 i'm very proud of them 11:52:15 -!- freechips has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 11:53:31 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:56:46 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:18 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-822-g9aa82c1: Check for mesmerizers after passwall 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9aa82c1928f6 11:59:49 oops, forgot to mention the bug report in that one 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:09 sorry, CanOfWorms 12:05:40 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 12:05:43 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:24 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-822-g9aa82c1 (34) 12:09:35 -!- frd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:11:53 -!- fiyawerx has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:13:07 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-823-gdec668e: Allow shopping and praying while immobile/netted/mesmerised 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 23+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dec668e4305f 12:14:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:16:13 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:00 hop behaves super weirdly with mesmerize 12:17:21 mesmeri[zs]e 12:18:45 it's semi-disallowed based on the blink targeter 12:18:49 I think 12:24:24 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-822-g9aa82c1 (34) 12:39:32 -!- meatpath has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:59 -!- flow has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:41:12 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:31 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:43:46 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:48:02 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:50:54 -!- exant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:33 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:23 -!- Dracunos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:01 -!- Dracunos has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:11 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:22 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-823-gdec668e (34) 13:09:40 -!- twelwe has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:15 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:38 advil: yeah, you aren' 13:15:52 t currently allowed to hop away from a mesemerizer, but the targeter doesn't display that correctly 13:16:01 one of those things shouldn't be true 13:16:46 thats fake, fake. its working brilliantly, well done 13:17:56 :) 13:17:58 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 13:19:48 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:12 fr: rare xom effect to quadruple robin`s goblin pack 13:44:29 -!- sooheon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:04 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:06 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:56:27 !lg * 13:56:27 6917548. rast the Fighter (L9 OpGl of Gozag), mangled by Duvessa (a +0 short sword) on D:4 on 2017-03-04 18:55:43, with 2587 points after 10338 turns and 0:21:54. 13:56:28 -!- hittemvvvmobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:05 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:48 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:15:45 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:18:17 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:18:49 -!- wasd644 is now known as wasd64 14:20:28 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:24:57 -!- Bammboo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:00 -!- Bammboobies is now known as Bammboo 14:29:56 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:22 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:45 !tell pleasingfungus https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=23228 (for the fanart tumblr!) 14:41:45 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 14:42:10 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:48:01 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/426 * 0.20-a0-835-g220cc03: Merge branch 'upstream/master' into cynos 10(6 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/220cc03de9bb 14:58:24 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:47 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:16:43 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:17:08 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:33 -!- ajsh_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:08 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/426 * 0.20-a0-836-gd24620d: Fix irregular code formatting. 10(9 minutes ago, 3 files, 10+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d24620dd68b8 15:31:20 -!- wasd64 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:12 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:42:08 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:15 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:04 -!- cxr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:52:31 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:53:13 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:26 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:59:17 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:10 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:25 -!- hellmonk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:23 -!- demok_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:19 -!- krischan has quit [*.net *.split] 16:13:19 -!- sooheon has quit [*.net *.split] 16:13:19 -!- waat has quit [*.net 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timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:10 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:23 "Cynos are humanoids with the heads of dogs. They can quickly train the basics of any skill, but their short attention span makes them worse at training the higher a skill's level gets." -this probably conveys the cyno skill system better for the species description to unfamiliar players, but is this too wordy/is there a better way to phrase it? 17:35:53 lol 17:36:20 for new players seems decent 17:39:40 "Cynos are humonids with the heads of dogs. They are quick to train the basics of any skill, but struggle to master any." is the current description, for reference 17:44:10 I like that better than this new one 17:44:16 also it should be "learn" instead of "train" imo 17:46:22 (...sounds cynocal...) 17:54:19 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:38 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-823-gdec668e (34) 18:13:36 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:17:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 18:23:53 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 18:28:41 -!- Snarwin has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:29:55 i like how there is a SPELL_POISON_CLOUD and a SPELL_POISONOUS_CLOUD 18:30:10 and the former is unused and causes the game to crash if a monster gets it because it has no data 18:35:13 if I ^z a build, can I pick up where I left off later? 18:35:20 or is make a sensitive and fragile thing 18:35:49 yes 18:35:52 to the former 18:36:07 hot llama, thanks 18:36:45 <|amethyst> I mean, don't ctrl-z, change header files, and resume 18:36:57 <|amethyst> it won't go back and rebuild things it already built 18:38:13 yeah, but sometimes you can see it hasn't reached (thing you suddenly remember that want to edit) yet 18:38:24 s/want/you want 18:38:29 <|amethyst> yeah, if it's a .cc file that's fine 18:39:02 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:21 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:24 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:43 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:10 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:23 -!- Lavandula has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:54:21 -!- scummos| has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:03 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:21 proposal: remove the resistances from dragon form, since fire dragons are no longer called "dragon" and the spell isn't a fire spell. replace fire breath with a new ability: vore 19:10:41 vore is a melee attack that does less damage than a normal one, but if it kills the monster and the monster is smaller than you, it restores some of your HP 19:11:38 are you also going to suggest removing hydra form? :o 19:11:56 dragons are NOT for sexual 19:12:18 im serious about the non-vore part of the suggestion 19:21:44 Fire Dragon Form 19:22:29 replace fire breath with dragon breath 19:22:38 you breathe dragons 19:26:38 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:47 reminds me of starbound, with guns that shoot demon pigs, or guns that shoot guns that shoot 19:28:49 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:57 my extremely niche question of the evening: should power leap work in fungus form? 19:29:04 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 19:29:07 (It does right now) 19:29:37 I wonder what a fungusform wjc char can do 19:31:08 it works both when monsters are/not visible? 19:31:21 yeah, I mean when monsters are visible 19:31:23 it does 19:32:39 can you bend space in fungus form 19:33:11 probably 19:33:15 there aren't a lot of checks for it 19:33:24 bend space seems ok tho 19:33:32 if a formicid can do it, why not fungus 19:33:47 bend space is fine, yeah 19:33:56 spells don't work just because you can't cast 19:34:08 I lean towards not allowing power leap to work in fungus-monstervisible but I do not have strong opinions on this 19:34:21 it might not come up a lot 19:34:39 does being rooted disabled power leap? 19:35:09 treeform blocks it if that's what you mean 19:35:16 there's also Treant grasping roots 19:35:18 right 19:35:35 I have to admit I've never quite understood what that status does, except that it's bad 19:35:41 ??grasping roots 19:35:41 I don't have a page labeled grasping_roots in my learndb. 19:35:46 ??shambling mangrove 19:35:46 shambling mangrove[1/1]: Slow moving but strong plants. They have a 20% chance of containing a band of yellow or red wasps or ravens (they don't count as summons), which will only be released after the shambling mangrove has taken enough damage. They can also use entangling {roots}. 19:35:48 stops flight and makes you a little slower 19:35:49 ??roots 19:35:49 roots[1/1]: Status caused by shambling mangroves which cancels flying, reduces EV, slows your movement speed (but not action speed). Flying over or swimming or floating in deep water prevents and removes this. 19:35:53 and probably does some other weird stuff 19:36:03 wow it reduces ev 19:36:18 mangroves are a pretty lame monster 19:36:21 imo 19:36:34 I've been wanting to do a pass on Swamp monsters for a while now 19:36:44 my alligator improvement wasn't received well though 19:36:58 they don't really do anything most of the time unless you are in a really bad spot already 19:37:01 mangroves are scary 19:37:07 GoodWood 19:37:12 they hit hard and i tend to not realize they're there 19:37:16 !lg * ikiller~~shambling_mangrove 19:37:17 922. Geoffrax the Fencer (L16 DgGl), demolished by a shambling mangrove on Swamp:4 (swamp) on 2017-03-04 02:15:11, with 177475 points after 34171 turns and 1:33:28. 19:37:28 bog monsters can be randomly scary, maybe they have a low-frequency good spell or two? 19:37:49 @? bog monster 19:37:49 unknown monster: "bog monster" 19:37:56 well most monsters can be randomly scary 19:37:59 I have literally never felt threatened by a bog body but I guess if you're rc- they could do respectable damage 19:37:59 @? bog body 19:37:59 bog body (03n) | Spd: 10 (swim: 140%) | HD: 6 | HP: 33-46 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 25, 412(cold:6-17) | 07undead, 10doors, amphibious, evil, spellcaster, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire, 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 262 | Sp: b.cold (3d14), slow | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 19:38:14 slow is sometimes relevant 19:38:15 being consistently scary is the hard part 19:38:16 but same 19:38:32 yeah I think I tend to be rC0 due to FDA, and sometimes rC- without realizing it 19:38:48 their hd is very low, you're unlikely to actually eat a slow from them, though yeah it can be bad if you're trying to tab hydras or sth and get slowed 19:39:20 @?orc wizard 19:39:20 orc wizard (06o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-18 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 38 | Sp: cantrip, magic dart (3d4), throw frost (3d5), throw flame (3d5), haste, invisibility [04emergency] / magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / magic dart (3d4), throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 19:39:24 my goal for monsters, in general, is that they become scary when certain combinations show up 19:39:25 the standards for undead monsters are pretty low 19:39:38 so bog bodies are actually above average in that respect 19:40:00 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:03 !lg * recent swamp urune=0 xl>=14 xl<=18 s=cikiller% 19:40:05 4682 games for * (recent swamp urune=0 xl>=14 xl<=18): 635x a hydra (13.56%), 532x a thorn hunter (11.36%), 416x a spriggan druid (8.89%), 385x the Lernaean hydra (8.22%), 236x a shambling mangrove (5.04%), 226x a spriggan rider (4.83%), 199x an alligator (4.25%), 178x Nikola (3.80%), 167x a swamp dragon (3.57%), 161x (3.44%), 109x a ghost crab (2.33%), 86x a bog body (1.84%), 70x a hydra simulacr... 19:40:12 so much early exp if you get the bog body ossuary on a decent char ;D 19:40:20 branches need solo threat monsters if you want them to be challenging for good players 19:40:20 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:44 good point, monko 19:40:54 your "certain combinations" are just gonna get lured and split 19:42:04 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/426 * 0.20-a0-837-g493d0e6: Modify Cyno species description. (minmay) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/493d0e60e094 19:42:07 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:29 shambling mangroves aren't the worst swamp monster in the world or anything 19:42:35 its reasonable to have monsters that explicitly punish bad play imo, but you just have to drop some things that can potentially 1v1 the player 19:42:36 they're not especially strong solo 19:42:55 the root thing can trip you up (haha) in fights with groups though 19:42:57 it's entirely possibly to run into bad combinations even with good play 19:43:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:12 @??shambling mangrove 19:43:12 shambling mangrove (04f) | Spd: 8 | HD: 13 | HP: 74-106 | AC/EV: 13/3 | Dam: 41 | 03plant, amphibious, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(100), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 676 | Sz: Big | Int: human. 19:43:16 yeah you do have to think about how monsters interact with other monsters 19:43:21 they can get high rolls 19:43:48 -!- snux has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:50 it is, but it's pretty rare 19:43:55 they're actually killing players about as much as spriggan riders 19:44:01 my go-to example are torpor snails, catoblepas, dream sheep, and basilisks. on their own none of them are scary, but they make otherwise unthreatening Lair packs suddenly something worth consideration 19:44:06 they really pull Lair together as a branch 19:44:18 dream sheep are scary on their own 19:44:21 also see: vault guardians 19:44:33 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:47 the go-to response to most of those is just pack split and/or lure as usual though 19:44:59 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:14 they are much more of a problem to a player already in a bad position but imo they usually aren't that bad if I'm in a good one 19:45:19 I really like catoblepas. because they make you pay a tiny bit of attention, but they also obey that "symmetrical fair play" thing that roguelikes usually have, their trap can be used on other monsters 19:45:21 that's fine :) 19:45:40 i actually hate catoblepas because of how carefully you have to press keys 19:45:45 well, I think for "branch reform" 19:45:56 since there is no warning for not moving out of breath immediately 19:45:59 it's not a question of "are solo monsters good or are 'support' monsters good" 19:46:06 it's just "what is the branch actually missing" 19:46:08 you need a forcemore for it maybe? 19:46:17 I set a force-more in my personal rcfile 19:46:19 that perhaps could be a default 19:46:29 a lot of this depends on what the intended difficulty of crawl is though, if you want good players to be able to win with very high consistency then keeping crawl at the current difficulty is fine 19:46:36 is the branch missing a major top-tier threat (that you usually go out of your way to fight solo) 19:46:47 or is it missing monsters that buff the relatively weak monsters in the branch 19:46:52 Brannock: improvements to the global rc file are always a good idea 19:47:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:13 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/426 * 0.20-a0-838-g8195ad9: Modify long Cyno species description in Crawl manual. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8195ad9669d1 19:47:16 yeah I don't think changing swamp difficulty is at all about "well let's address crawl's overall difficulty" 19:47:18 it's simply "let's make swamp more on part to the other branchers" 19:47:24 s/part/par/ 19:47:25 yeah, and I support that 19:47:31 I think I posted about that once 19:47:32 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:47:37 on the tavern 19:47:43 tavern?! 19:48:05 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:07 tbh if you want to make sbranches more consistent in difficulty you'd want to make shoals:$ easier as well 19:48:21 ah, but that's the second shadow rule 19:48:24 you can only make crawl harder 19:48:26 never easier 19:48:29 everything needs to be as hard as shoals 19:48:31 since that floor ranges from harder than V:1-V:4 to harder than U depending on how it's layed out 19:48:42 the goal is to get worm's splatratio to 50% 19:48:44 that's our metric 19:48:48 lol 19:48:52 .splat 19:48:54 shoals is weird because it's super easy if you have fireball, or a couple other winbuttons 19:49:10 yeah, a noisy spell is exactly what I look for in shoals 19:49:14 http://i.imgur.com/SxTxJbn.png I feel like something went wrong here with text wrap 19:49:14 I'm not sure that's correct.... 19:49:15 !splatratio 19:49:16 % of xl17 chars killed recentish: 12/37x wormsofcant [32.43%] 19:49:35 wow we're getting there 19:49:41 what happened to wormsofcan though 19:49:43 no games 19:49:46 rip 19:49:52 my heae is still from 0.19a 19:49:53 !splatratio 19:49:54 % of xl17 chars killed recentish: 8/31x Brannock [25.81%] 19:49:59 been getting sloppy 19:50:02 dang 19:50:07 !lg Brannock splat 19:50:08 46. brannock the Fencer (L25 DgWn), blasted by Xydei the pandemonium lord (great blast of fire) on Depths:5 on 2016-11-03 23:33:54, with 689329 points after 93659 turns and 4:53:19. 19:50:10 god 19:50:11 daaang 19:50:12 that one still annoys me 19:50:17 he followed me out of the zig 19:50:22 nice 19:50:23 oh right, I remember 19:50:34 is that better or worse than a ascent kill 19:50:41 I have an ascent splat too 19:50:42 serious swamp fr: make tmons more common there 19:50:48 ma bois 19:50:52 swamp tmons are cool but you like never see them 19:51:01 what about very ugly packs 19:51:12 well, I don't want to steal too much from vaults/depths 19:51:16 !lg Brannock mfgl killer~~hell_sentinel 19:51:17 1. Brannock the Bringer of Light (L27 MfGl of The Shining One), slain by a Hell Sentinel on D:5 on 2014-04-26 22:38:47, with 1340699 points after 134624 turns and 10:35:38. 19:51:22 swamp already steals a lot of stuff, doesn't it? 19:51:25 there are too many ugly things in the game already but if you want to remove them from U and put them in swamp that would be ok 19:51:27 spriggans, very uglies, tmons 19:51:41 very uglies are not normal spawns 19:51:43 I like having ugly things in U because it's a source of mutagen 19:51:44 just in certain vaults 19:51:46 or are they? 19:51:47 spriggan air mage would also be better in swamp than U for difficulty 19:51:49 they might be rare spawns 19:51:50 i'm not sure 19:51:54 you might be right 19:51:59 they can show in swamp with very low rate iirc 19:51:59 !source pop_swamp 19:51:59 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick-data.h#L260 19:52:05 I should make that spriggan air mage ending for shoals 19:52:09 yep 19:52:10 they are 19:52:11 just like tmons 19:52:15 heh 19:52:26 only very uglies 19:52:26 oh nm 19:52:26 there are uglies as well 19:52:31 huh 19:52:32 everything is ugly 19:52:36 they're pretty rare though 19:52:44 man, tmons really were a victim of power creep 19:52:55 i dunno 19:52:55 also remove tmons from zot already 19:53:02 I think they're okay in Swamp and it does play into the general theme of movement disruption 19:53:09 they're kind of horribly terrifying in swamp 19:53:20 @?tentacled monstrosity 19:53:20 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 96-149 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(160), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 2966 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 19:53:27 nice 19:53:29 amphibious 19:53:34 hrm 19:53:36 @??hydra 19:53:36