00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:15 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:45 I need to rebase my secret branch 00:00:59 still on the fence about archery brand removal. I haven' tcome up with good ideas yet for glove egos 00:01:03 and I have a bunch of ohter stuff on my plate right now 00:01:21 iirc mpa was gonna do it 00:01:38 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:29 !tell MarvinPA pass highest judgement on !pr 442, please 00:02:29 Brannock: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 00:02:56 Everything else is still being worked on, or needs a bit of push to get over the hilltop. I'll probably fix up and merge thermic engine tomorrow 00:03:33 you're doing Zot's work 00:04:52 442 is a bit of a meme pr and for that reason i dislike it 00:04:55 trying to decide if slow stair climbing is interesting as a frog mechanic. maybe? 00:04:56 but archery gloves are weird 00:05:05 noooo 00:05:06 I think we can do much better for glove egos 00:05:18 playing with time in dcss sucks 00:05:29 stair climb speed is rather obscured from players 00:05:42 most players don't even know that climb speed is different the second time you climb a stair 00:05:54 into an unknown area, that is 00:05:55 sort of different 00:06:37 i mean, if it was a species effect, we could actually say "you climb stairs more slowly" or such 00:06:48 there's visibility! 00:06:58 give barachian a "Bellowing Croak" ability that lets them ribbit loudly and threatening, which has a chance to frighten enemies, but also is loud enough to draw other enemies to the area to check out what's going on 00:07:03 that's my silly idea for the day 00:07:12 two... abilities? 00:07:19 two escape abilities, even 00:10:00 no spell level restrictions for memorization would be a weird variant on sif. not insanely excited about it, but it's not awful 00:10:01 -!- WalkerBoh has left ##crawl-dev 00:10:11 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-709-gd40821f (34) 00:10:20 reversing: what if they had reduced spell spell slots? 00:10:20 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:06 frogs? 00:11:21 hm 00:11:42 might work better on a species that was more spell-focused 00:11:51 i like the concept 00:11:56 I suppose you could do no spell slots from leveling (have to train spellcasting) and adjust some apts somewhere 00:12:20 not sure if it would turn out well 00:12:48 i like the idea but i think this is not its proper home. 00:13:12 i mean, i guess i could push frogs toward casting... 00:13:18 you're looking for some kind of detriment to offset the stats increase? 00:13:28 i'm just looking for some other gimmick for em 00:13:42 since consensus seems to be that the species is overly bland at present 00:13:46 well you seem to be looking for negative ones specifically 00:14:12 negative ones would let me bump stats, which seems fun and pushes them away from Chei Meme God 00:14:23 but a good positive one would be fine 00:14:51 Pleasingfungus: a race that can cast more easily in heavy armour would also be interesting. I have no idea how to implement it in a reasonable way, but that's what I was brainstorming when I thought about the spell level thing 00:15:06 high-str race, or -ER race 00:15:17 we have a mut for the latter (for both, even!) 00:15:18 Basajaun-era placid magic idea 00:15:20 the ultimate meme, innate sturdy frame 00:15:28 is that a meme 00:15:31 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15:35 nah 00:15:53 i mean, this is a frog, so it's a meme regardless in a certain sense :) 00:16:14 was increased los an idea that was shot down for very good reasons previously? 00:16:17 I want to say yes 00:16:20 but I don't remember why 00:16:21 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:28 it was historically impossible 00:16:28 fr: if you choose a random name for a barachian the game always selects Pepe 00:16:30 with circleLOS 00:16:37 it'd exceed terminal size 00:16:41 these days i believe it's possible 00:16:48 if it were somehow viable, it would interact with the hop/slow 00:16:52 and be largely negative 00:17:17 i can poke at implementing it. here's what you're gonna have to do for me, tho: give me a theme 00:17:24 do the frogs glow in the dark? 00:17:24 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:28 are they flarefrogs? 00:17:33 yeah, it's not precisely a frog thing, is it 00:17:38 i'm fine with that honestly 00:17:41 theme is the easy part 00:17:44 something about like 00:17:44 I looked at increasing LoS with an unrand, it turned out to be very hard 00:17:48 weird eyeballs? 00:17:54 they're like big saucer eyes 00:18:04 oh, reflective? 00:18:06 and...this is gross...they likc their eyes 00:18:07 big reflective eyes 00:18:08 *lick 00:18:10 lol 00:18:18 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/396 * 0.20-a0-709-g4f57992: Change slow regeneration to a single level mut 10(5 weeks ago, 9 files, 85+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f579920b6a8 00:18:21 not saying it's a bad idea. I really like it! But you're going to have a fun time with all the god that assumes LOS_RANGE = 7 = forever unchanging 00:18:23 s/god/code 00:18:33 true. 00:18:54 yeah, and I was wondering about monsters; I assume this increases each monster's los somehow? 00:18:59 uh 00:19:00 so that it remains symmetric, that is 00:19:02 los is symmetric, yes 00:19:06 hrm 00:19:08 you mean 00:19:10 monsters out of your LOS 00:19:13 how does that work now? 00:19:24 if monsters see each other at a fixed 7 tiles, that's... 00:19:26 hm 00:20:10 !source cell_see_cell 00:20:11 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/losglobal.cc#L116 00:20:27 good ancient dead code 00:20:53 another idea that just popped into my head is rC-, but that's maybe just less interesting version of the Dr thing 00:21:03 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:21:04 wouldn't hurt you too much early game 00:21:06 the anti-mummy 00:21:14 yeah, and not that they have an ice theme 00:21:21 but they could! 00:21:44 they have a minor ice theme 00:22:02 why would ice theme make rC- work better, tho? isn't that backward? 00:22:26 !source LOS_MAX_RANGE 00:22:27 Can't find LOS_MAX_RANGE. 00:22:40 er, yeah I guess that's true isn't it; I suppose I was confusing "ice theme" and the fact that frogs are kind of susceptible to cold 00:22:45 #define LOS_MAX_RANGE LOS_RADIUS 00:23:01 being cold and all 00:23:04 bash-3.2$ git grep LOS_RADIUS | wc -l 00:23:05 er cold-blooded 00:23:05 269 00:23:31 you can make it work, but i'm more interested in the los thing 00:23:33 will poke at it at some point and see how much of a pain it is 00:23:42 also, non-square los geometry 00:23:45 the los thing seemed neat since it plays with both hop and slow 00:23:59 well, I guess that's a bit of a stretch 00:24:06 but seeing more monsters yet you're slower 00:24:20 I guess it doesn't exactly play with hop too much; you just see more stuff where you land 00:24:25 so it does to some extent 00:24:49 it would further cement them as the frog archers they were born to be 00:25:12 aaaagh 00:25:15 now i'm against it 00:25:37 there is magic as well, but yeah ranged users like the extra hits 00:25:54 would current range 7 spells be range 8? 00:25:59 spells have shorter range though, so I guess it doesn't help them so much 00:26:00 oh 00:26:04 that could be interesting maybe 00:26:09 might vary from spell to spell, tbh 00:26:10 yeah. a lot of spells have range = LOS_RADIUS 00:26:13 likewise any los-range abilities 00:26:38 269 lines... 00:26:57 sounds like a non-trivial thing to work out 00:27:08 make them croak when they see monsters 00:27:10 frog shoutitis 00:27:22 croakitis 00:27:24 kill frogs? 00:27:39 croakitis could work 00:28:08 i'm honestly kind of excited about the los thing but croakitis seems reasonable 00:28:08 boring tho 00:28:41 did you like the tongue attack? it can slobber the enemy and silence them 00:28:50 this is an aux? 00:28:52 or an active? 00:29:06 wait, what? frogs are getting actively worse? 00:29:11 ooh, an aux works better maybe 00:29:13 I was originally thinking active, but I never remember active breath attacks, so aux is a good idea! 00:29:13 ProzacElf: i want an excuse to give em more stats 00:29:15 frogs can eat trivial enemies earthbound-style (or, rather, Hydra Form-style) 00:29:17 retaliatory tongue attack 00:29:55 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:23 you could maybe have fun with that idea, but it would be a bit much to balance 00:30:27 and it's another active 00:30:30 Brannock: why not just give em the full devourer? when you kill an edible enemy in melee, you eat it. 00:30:40 problem: encourages weird play for ne? 00:30:45 slash fedhas 00:30:46 once they grab the orb, they have to go through the battletoads level that no one in history ever beat 00:31:03 don't say turbo tunnel, that is very beatable 00:31:05 is that the sewer one? 00:31:27 you're thinking of the ninja turtle game Brannock 00:31:32 turtles in time..! 00:31:36 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-709-gd40821f (34) 00:31:36 i think we've broken through the bad ideas barrier tonight, there've been several ideas that seem viable here 00:32:06 gammafunk: if you haven't beat it on youtube i don't believe it's beatable =p 00:32:15 increased los, rc-, croakitis, devouring... maybe the silencing tongue, though that's kind of stepping on vs more than a bit 00:32:17 I beat it as a kid! 00:32:27 if you get killed with a slicing weapon, you can wait 5000 turns and come back to life. Because frogs can regrow any part of their body!!! 00:32:29 gammafunk: what, and you didn't uppload it? 00:32:39 my modem wasn't fast enough 00:32:53 Pleasingfungus: status-inflicting tongue 00:33:02 gross 00:33:35 what's another good status, i wonder. what statuses exist? 00:33:35 Send all random thoughts, dreams, song requests, recipes, dunks, box wine, rants, fishnets, and 5" floppy disks with shareware to PleasingFungus via !tell as he sleeps on these frog ideas 00:33:51 actually i don't want the fishnets 00:34:13 Pleasingfungus: sounds fishy to me 00:34:14 har 00:34:16 well the sexy barachian unique will want a fishnet to wear 00:34:19 BANNED. 00:34:22 hahaha 00:34:22 both of you! 00:34:45 if i send you box wine will it get me unbanned? 00:34:52 sorry, i don't drink. 00:34:54 SxE 00:35:05 *sXe 00:35:06 fuck 00:35:30 giant african bullfrogs are *really* big 00:35:33 how about a delightful picture with a lot of lsd laced into it? 00:35:43 he said he was straight edge 00:35:47 I doubt acid will sway him 00:35:58 i've never taken acid. this is a true confession 00:36:01 yes, but it will be so delightful he'll handle the picture! 00:36:05 unlike all the other lies which i say all the time 00:36:08 and then he will be my pawn! 00:36:18 i don't think that's how lsd works. 00:36:21 Pleasingfungus: slow has potential synergy with their slowness?? 00:36:32 might be a bit 'give a weakness and take it away' though 00:36:47 you could apply something wacky, like malmutate or vulnerability 00:36:52 https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c4/65/57/c4655712bf36d46d14b0e59af232dd0c.jpg this is a very good picture 00:36:58 mutagenic froggos 00:37:07 Brannock: agreed! 00:37:24 DCSS:CA has a mutation that makes the character more likely to get more (mal)mutated, as in, gets more mutations from any source of mutations 00:37:46 among various other DNA mutations that aren't *that* interseting 00:38:01 could contrast nicely against Halfling rmut 00:38:06 weird idea: ENCH_INSANE 00:38:08 re tongue 00:39:01 or ENCH_PARALYSIS going off the "poison frog" thing 00:39:01 I guess they're both that idea 00:39:15 Insanity has a bit more interaction with monster AI than paralysis 00:39:21 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:29 (assuming this is the effect that Discord causes) 00:39:33 yes 00:39:33 (it might not be) 00:39:36 okay, yeah 00:39:42 ENCH_MAD also exists and is totally unrelated 00:39:46 what does it do? 00:40:02 it's a zin recite effect. i honestly forget what it does 00:40:11 ah, it's confusion 00:40:17 like ENCH_DUMB is para 00:40:26 I think making monsters insane when they're next to you is likely to be really annoying 00:40:27 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:40:27 I wonder if it's worth simplifying that 00:40:39 monster AI or no 00:40:41 gammafunk: also, not very exciting for a hypothetical Caster Frog 00:40:50 yeah 00:40:51 has synergy with hop! 00:40:56 drive a guy insane, hop away 00:41:14 FR: make barachians have an inner bond with cthulhu 00:41:19 well presumably you'd be hopping a lot if you made monsters insane frequently 00:41:23 haha 00:41:26 insanity for all! 00:41:31 lugonu... 00:41:51 random malign gateways at xl 21 00:42:02 the return of abysstouched! 00:42:25 I like devouring, though I'm concerned it's just toned-down PBD 00:42:26 "When I think of the Abyss I touch myseeeeeelf" 00:42:37 but frogs being able to munch through popcorn is interesting 00:42:37 what's Brannock and Gh 00:42:40 -what's 00:42:41 Huh? 00:42:52 yeah 00:42:54 Oh I see what you mean 00:42:58 what IS brannock and gh? 00:43:03 Well Gh need to actively 'e'at which takes turns 00:43:04 the same 00:43:14 !won . gh 00:43:14 Brannock (gh) has won once in 25 games (4.00%): 1xGhFi 00:43:19 poor form 00:43:19 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 00:43:24 anyways before I continue I'll just relink the savefile again if you need it 00:43:37 http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/saves/Lightli-crawl-git-bd4582c47f-170221-0543.tar.bz2 00:43:41 ??hydra form 00:43:41 hydra form[1/4]: Level 6 form that gives you {spellpower}/10 heads (randomly rounded) and cleaving (when heads >= 2). Your heads can be chopped off, grown, and cauterized just like the monster! Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. rPois+, +30% HP. Beware the AC cost... except felids/octopodes. Has swift movement in water. 00:43:59 huh 00:44:11 second I come back I immediately go to level 22 00:44:11 weird 00:44:15 i have always wanted to buff hydra form 00:44:16 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:44:20 thanks, Lightli, updated that Mantis bug with your savefile 00:44:31 it would be a major buff and would require other changes to frogs 00:44:49 also 00:44:53 so, do i need to start a barachian? 00:44:55 well, it would be a significant buff, at least, all that free healing 00:45:03 or are they going to suck less soon? 00:45:04 ProzacElf: no, they're boring right now! wait until i change em 00:45:06 i mean 00:45:08 how come berserk duration takes the sharp drop when using Ieoh Juan's martial attacks 00:45:08 they did get buffed 00:45:11 lol 00:45:11 and i like em 00:45:14 ??gammafunk[3 00:45:14 gammafunk[3/6]: greateroneandwon chars: DEEE DgAs FeFE FoSk HaWr BaWn MfAM MuWz OgAE OpVM TeAK 00:45:19 but no one else does, so don't listen to me! 00:45:19 yes you're moving 00:45:23 but you're also attacking 00:45:43 <|amethyst> IMO you shouldn't get martial moves while berserking 00:45:46 gammafunk should sneak in mfam while the change is hot 00:45:48 !learn edit gammafunk[3 s/BaWn/BaWn (on hold)/ 00:45:48 gammafunk[3/6]: greateroneandwon chars: DEEE DgAs FeFE FoSk HaWr BaWn (on hold) MfAM MuWz OgAE OpVM TeAK 00:45:49 also, how will hopping interact with the moving god? 00:45:58 I don't like AM, worms 00:46:06 all they got is pproj, right? 00:46:16 pfff 00:46:22 that's good enough! 00:46:23 PProj for AM is pretty major imo 00:46:24 i got the best oneandwon 00:46:31 !oneandwon 00:46:35 pretty major for what 00:46:38 for me liking AM? 00:46:39 Chars won first try for ProzacElf: TrNe 00:46:41 if so, I disagree 00:46:46 AM strength in general 00:46:50 I have no opinion on gammafunk's opinions 00:47:01 AM was already strong 00:47:05 they started with a launcher 00:47:15 :) 00:47:16 i have to agree, sadly 00:47:22 it's just I don't like ranged too much 00:47:29 it only took me 3 tries to win with heam 00:47:30 I'm no Dynast 00:47:40 and i also dislike ranged 00:47:52 all in favor of ranged removal? 00:48:18 i don't think i'd miss it 00:48:34 aaa... I'm on the fence about removal. I think it's interesting to just go wholly "magic *is* our ranged" 00:48:36 but you should probably divest yourself from reddit 00:48:39 but it's dramatic and drastic. 00:48:40 and tavern 00:48:45 already done half of that! 00:48:50 also "magic *is* our special ability system" 00:48:53 heh 00:48:59 what about evocations? 00:49:04 evocations is also our ranged 00:49:08 well, i do like evo 00:49:10 people keep asking for special weapon moves and, really, just point them to magic spells 00:49:22 what about invocations? 00:49:22 and evo is already my ranged 00:49:22 invocations is also ranged 00:49:23 ranged is ranged 00:49:23 what about necromancy 00:49:29 throwing, which i consider at least a little different from the rest of ranged, is also ranged 00:49:35 what about conjurations? 00:49:40 what about ranged? 00:49:45 what ABOUT ranged? 00:49:50 would it be mean to have ijc's wrath be barbs + dancing polearms 00:49:56 i'm very sorry, i didn't mean to start a serious discussion about this. 00:50:01 i was just memeing. 00:50:02 throwing is good because of significantly less interface hassle, which is the goal of Lasty's reform anyway 00:50:03 instead of barbs + dagger 00:50:10 why DO we allow players to hurt things that aren't right next to them anyway? 00:50:12 .echo $(range 1 27) 00:50:12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 00:50:18 ^ ranged 00:50:23 range_ranged 00:50:29 ProzacElf: there's a perfectly good game design that doesn't allow that 00:50:30 ranged is number 1??? 00:50:54 super mario bros? 00:51:00 ranged is definitely a big ol #2. ha ha ha ha ha 00:51:01 oh wait 00:51:05 it has fireballs 00:51:20 damnation is cool 00:51:22 I had an idea for a god once, that had a "cowardly conduct", that gave you piety for killing things that *weren't* adjacent to you (or for killing confused/paralysed/sleeping enemies, even if they were adjacent) 00:51:23 hunt the wampus? 00:51:25 I like that launcher 00:51:30 I couldn't figure out what would be good powers for it though 00:52:18 sounds annoying, tbh 00:52:19 I like the idea of a god that's afraid of everything 00:52:23 just thematically 00:52:33 the annoyance factor was a big problem for me to surmount, yeah. I couldn't surmount it 00:52:37 and yeah I love the idea of a fear conduct 00:52:40 to go alongside our slow conduct 00:52:50 I think divine conducts are some of the more interesting parts of crawl 00:52:55 sure 00:53:03 gozag, ashenzari, chei are all fantastic with their conducts 00:53:10 I absolutely adore conducts 00:53:18 like the one where you can't worship any other god <3 00:53:27 oh, and ru 00:53:30 is it ettin race time??? 00:53:31 frankly I like ru sacrifices more than ru powers 00:53:34 -!- Barfbag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:53:37 i think everyone does 00:53:45 that's where most of the god is, yeah 00:53:48 there are some cute ones 00:53:54 Sacrifice Eye 00:54:07 hand is the big thematic one, of course 00:54:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:32 yeah 00:54:36 sac xl is cool 00:54:41 sack experience (the apt lowering one, whatever it's called) reminds me of doggos now 00:54:42 and I would love to make a god with a fear conduct work but every time I try to tackle it, seems impossible to come up with a satisfying and non-annoying design for it 00:55:08 we're running out of space for gods anyway :) 00:55:12 two spots left! 00:55:20 rip P 00:55:23 re could remove nemelex 00:55:29 no, that's quite impossible. 00:55:29 removelex xobeh 00:55:30 and by remove I mean rework each card 00:55:38 again? 00:55:45 lol 00:55:46 How many news are we on newnewnewnewnemelex or whatever 00:55:51 exactly that many. 00:55:59 nemelex will never be old 00:56:05 the thing about "no piety for adjacent kills" is less punitive than it is incentive, and it also enables casters/ranged fighters/polearms 00:56:06 i was thinking about adding a new nem card that included my sightjacking idea 00:56:11 and stabbers 00:56:15 sightjacking? 00:56:27 los increase? 00:56:28 "see through a monster's eyes for an instant" 00:56:31 oh 00:56:33 Eye of Kilrogg?! 00:56:38 lol 00:56:42 hrm 00:56:52 is it a random monster? seems like it'd seldom be useful 00:56:56 i still like that idea, it's just really bad as a spell 00:57:03 very divinations 00:57:06 no piety for adjacent kills? so a god that really hates weapons that aren't polearms/raned 00:57:07 in the worst way 00:57:26 Eye of Kilrogg?! <-- <3 00:57:30 more like, god of using blink and delay tricks to manuever yourself just out of melee with guys before finishing em 00:57:31 if you could spam it, it would be bad, but on the other side I'd worry that one use would be very underwhelming 00:57:37 -!- HeithinnGrasida has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:40 Lightli, right, the god is cowardly and infects you with her fear. so you get rewarded for killing things that weren't able to actually get near you to 'scare' you. 00:57:42 and yeah 00:57:47 there's so many cheese kite strategies 00:57:50 it'd just end up annoying 00:57:55 i think it'd be fine as a xom effect 00:57:58 but that's a very low bar 00:57:59 which is very disappointing since I like the idea of a fear conduct 00:58:07 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:58:27 could be some kind of limited evocable... more items??? 00:58:34 I don't have the stomach to see through a god design, anyway 00:58:35 I got it 00:58:39 a thing, don't care how you use it 00:58:45 I'd rather make controversial tweaks 00:59:00 where you become invincible and stationary...and you control a monsters for some number of turns!!!!! 00:59:14 isn't that just enslavement but worse 00:59:30 no because you get all the monster's stuff 00:59:42 hmm 00:59:42