00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:20 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:55 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:05:58 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:23 |amethyst: I run into this while doing the enum split occasionally (non-deterministic). Do you know which file needs to be updated? http://dpaste.com/1HVFY5A 00:10:08 interesting errors during this process 00:10:09 ghost.cc:808:59: warning: comparison of constant 'NUM_GODS' (26) with 00:10:09 expression of type 'const rod_type' is always false 00:11:11 <|amethyst> alexjurkiewicz: util/cmd-name.pl 00:11:23 <|amethyst> alexjurkiewicz: which reads enum.h 00:12:17 !source ghost.cc:808 00:12:17 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ghost.cc#L808 00:12:36 <|amethyst> alexjurkiewicz: did you change something from 'god_type' to 'rod_type'? 00:12:44 <|amethyst> alexjurkiewicz: in ghost.h 00:12:54 i think clang does it when attempting to 'fail and keep going' 00:13:03 <|amethyst> ah 00:13:26 player.h had a lot of comparisons from player to los_type 00:14:25 that debug function that that is in suggests some past exciting times with ghosts 00:18:40 advil: i had a dream once that there was a video game where you had to convince 8 ghosts to go to a party, then once they were at the party you had to convince all 8 ghosts to take off their trousers 00:19:04 each ghost had its own personality so you had to use different arguments for why they should go to the party 00:22:34 <|amethyst> Wasn't that the plot of _The Exterminating Angel_? 00:31:38 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-700-gbd4582c (34) 00:34:46 i think it's the plot of most japanese visual novels, maybe you fell asleep playing one? 00:35:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 00:42:52 none of the ghosts had neon hair though 00:48:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:40 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:24 up to m 01:04:45 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:13 -!- eb_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:06:21 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:43 to add needles to removed items, would it be OBJ_MISSILE or OBJ_MISSILES? in itemprop.cc 01:07:25 -!- FunkyBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:08:55 only one of those words exists in the codebase :) 01:09:01 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:49 hellcrawl isn't searchable on github for some reason, it's really inconvenient 01:10:12 I'll pop open a new tab and search in crawl/crawl :P 01:12:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:15 you wouldn't happen to know how to ask github to enable text/code searching in hellcrawl, would you? 01:12:30 looks like it's { OBJ_MISSILES, MI_NEEDLE }, also 01:13:25 <|amethyst> github says "Sorry, forked repositories are not currently searchable." 01:13:53 <|amethyst> that seems... wrong 01:14:18 <|amethyst> if original crawl had been on github, DCSS would be unsearchable 01:14:23 especially because, as I understand it, we *could* get around it by deleting hellcrawl, and re uploading it as its own, non-forked thing 01:17:31 !tell hellmonk text searching in hellcrawl might work if you push it as a new, independent repository not forked from crawl/crawl 01:17:32 rumflump: OK, I'll let hellmonk know. 01:18:37 annoyingly, modifying many .h files still requires a near-complete recompile 01:20:13 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-700-gbd4582c (34) 01:20:47 -!- eb has quit [] 01:21:23 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:23:14 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:49 |amethyst, a huge reason why I'm able to be effective is thanks to CSZO's private commit log search 01:24:54 I couldn't imagine trying to do the same thing on github 01:28:47 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:38:51 this enum split saves less time recompiling than i hoped 01:39:14 i guess the real problem is that crawl codebase is spaghetti 01:39:21 highly tangled 01:40:46 pretty sure every file uses item-status-flag-type.h 01:41:46 and that ability.cc includes every header 01:42:54 DONE! 01:44:20 -!- orbisvicis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:52 03alexjurkiewicz02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/461 * 0.20-a0-648-g7d8eff0: Merge pull request #2 from crawl/master 10(5 days ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d8eff0f21f1 01:44:52 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/461 * 0.20-a0-649-g760cead: Split almost all enums out of enum.h 10(3 days ago, 273 files, 5639+ 5137-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/760ceadd5bfc 01:46:06 !tell pleasingfungus would you review 461 now? I think it's 99% complete, except for any bugs that travis finds 01:46:06 alexjurkiewicz: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 01:51:54 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:56:59 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-700-gbd4582c 01:59:47 is there a better way to write this? http://dpaste.com/2Y0YBSZ 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:46 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:13 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:58 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08:36 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:54 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:41 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:04 -!- scotchmint has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:42 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:41 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:15 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:50:20 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:54 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-689-g860b9ab 02:58:47 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:06 Oh wow, I missed a boatload of IJC naming discussion 03:01:11 Shame I am in a different timezone :) 03:02:03 !tell Brannock I'm really not too fussed about the name. Wu Jian Council sounds great to me (as it was my initial intention) but would need someone with knowledge of the language to tell me about the nuance 03:02:04 SteelNeuron: OK, I'll let brannock know. 03:02:27 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:02:54 !tell Brannock Alternatively, I like Nicolae's idea of just mangling it a bit. Iean Jioh could do, I'd personally go "Ieon Jiah" because I like the cadence of the original vowels 03:02:55 SteelNeuron: OK, I'll let brannock know. 03:04:13 !tell Brannock so I propose "Ieon Jiah", but I remain open. Also, let me know if the Sifu names are an issue, they can be similarly mangled no problem (I would like Gene Jian Bin to remain but nothing is sacred) 03:04:13 SteelNeuron: OK, I'll let brannock know. 03:18:49 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:33 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:55 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:45 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-700-gbd4582c (34) 03:24:28 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:28 -!- lupus83 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:25 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:32:17 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:28 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:53 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:49 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:46 -!- rumflump has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:35 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:58 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:00 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:00 -!- Idolo has quit [] 04:06:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:44 -!- peileppe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:15:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:17:27 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:15 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:46:30 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 04:48:13 -!- Guest48219 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:10 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:41 -!- kobby has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42:31 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:42:48 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:51 !tell ontoclasm the IJC "golden clouds" look a bit like swirls of mustard. now that this god is in trunk, is it worthy of some help from your paintbrush? 06:05:52 rumflump: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 06:07:17 i'll take a look at it 06:07:17 ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:07:40 rock, thanks! 06:09:48 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:13 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:50 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:57 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:10 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:27 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:56 ontoclasm: Speaking of which... I love your ability tiles, to the point that I've reused them through the whole process of developing the god 06:56:24 but they don't really match the current abilities too much (Serpent's Lash, which is about striking quickly, and Heaven on Earth, which is about summoning heavenly clouds) 06:56:52 so it would be great if at some point you (or anyone with better art skills than me) could come up with tiles for these in the same colour scheme :) 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:48 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:08 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:04 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:12:18 -!- Bodrick has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:16:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:32 -!- Basil is now known as Guest81765 07:21:52 -!- Bodrick has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:27 -!- LordSloth has quit [Client Quit] 07:24:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:04 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:39 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:09 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:27 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:51 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:27 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:08 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:35:47 -!- SEVEN_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:39:29 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:00 -!- Taraiph has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:47:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:08 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 08:50:41 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:24 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:15 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 09:19:27 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28:28 -!- meatpath has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:57:15 -!- Alcopop has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:59:02 -!- andrew has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:56 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:03:52 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:59 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:08 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:34 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:32 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:34:04 -!- yesno__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:08 I spent 9 hours in the past 2 days rerolling demonspawn characters to get this exact set of mutations. This set of mutations is supposed to make an absolutely unkillable regeneration monster. 10:35:25 After this one, I'm gonna try making an assassin demonspawn. Looking forward to another 9 hours of rolling characters to get Antennae, Thin skeleton, Nightstalker, Foul Stench, and Augmentation 10:35:34 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5v2rzs/what_do_i_need_to_take_to_do_to_take_this_all_the/ 10:36:32 what 10:36:44 <|amethyst> solution: seed the demonspawn mutation RNG with just the day 10:36:46 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:36:51 ok that's a direct quote 10:36:54 You feel especially monstrous today. 10:37:03 i was concerned for a moment 10:47:09 why do they need foul stench on an assassin 10:54:51 -!- Sscchhmueptfter has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:59 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:54 is there a function for "give the player some energy / aut" somewhere that I can look at? 11:18:10 I'm trying to give a species a half-turn refund when they miscast a spell 11:19:52 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:28 -!- andrew has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:36:28 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:45 !tell alexjurkiewicz the can't use stairs part would be the point, surely! 11:36:45 Pleasingfungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:36:46 Pleasingfungus: OK, I'll let alexjurkiewicz know. 11:37:50 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:56 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:38:33 rumflump: the player doesn't have energy, and you can't go back in time 11:39:01 rumflump: but you could set you.time_taken /= 2 or something if you wanted that behaviour 11:40:08 re yesterday's elemental spell school chat: there's some notes on what spell schools are 'supposed to do' in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/spells.txt . partially descriptive, partially aspirational 11:42:19 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:45 -!- kobby has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:46:13 "Air's only access to precise single-target 11:46:13 ok. so put something like you.species=SE, time_taken / 2, somewhere in the spret_fail section of spl_cast.cc? 11:46:14 damage is Airstrike, which is extremely situational." 11:46:38 _extremely_ situational 11:47:20 rumflump: something like that, presumably you'd make it an innate species mutation rather than checking species directly 11:47:38 (although if this is a thing for a PR it's not a good idea imo) 11:47:44 gammafunk: i did say partially aspirational :) 11:48:45 that discussion was a bit more about the notion that the elemental schools each might have their own coherent gameplay, as opposed to just theme (i.e. fire) 11:49:57 yes. that document covers that notion to some extent 11:50:06 talks about which mechanical gimmicks are and aren't allowed in each school 11:50:45 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:52:09 nice, holy spell school is still listed in there 11:52:29 not really related, but I wish the game design community would come up with a better term than "gimmick" to refer to, well, mechanics. the word connotates triviality and lack of depth 11:53:37 so Air magic has a theme of multiple zaps. is that a "gimmick"? does Gell's Gravitas have a "gimmick" of slamming enemies into each other? 11:54:15 pretty sure gimmick has been deliberately adopted here in a non-serious way exactly because of that (due to people making silly complaints about things with new mechanics being "gimmicky") 11:54:18 !tell alexjurkiewicz do you mind handling the merge conflicts? if so, i'll deal with it 11:54:19 Pleasingfungus: OK, I'll let alexjurkiewicz know. 11:54:37 MarvinPA: and divinations! 11:54:58 Brannock: part of the problem is that it's really easy to propose new mechanics that just aren't very good 11:54:58 oh nice, i missed that 11:54:58 yeah, which is why I mentioned it wasn't related. I was just reminded of other discussions I've had about game design where the term "gimmick" kept getting used for legitimate mechanics 11:54:58 and that this is the most common state of proposals 11:55:12 just a pet peeve! 11:55:14 so a perjorative term picks up steam fast 11:55:14 the document is very old... when i discovered it, it hadn't been touched in four years 11:55:23 yeah I saw you had updated it 11:55:32 originally written in 0.8, apparently 11:56:56 lots of very good ancient references in there yeah 11:57:06 like the stuff about all earth spells getting tmut! 11:57:28 shouldn't put stuff like that in there 11:57:30 also the summoning bit originally referenced the hypothetical, long-proposed "summon swamp" idea for summoning terrain! and then that actually became a real thing many years later 11:57:37 devs will read it and take it as a personal challenge 11:57:48 heh, thanks N7! 11:57:55 I assume that's the spell you're referring to 11:57:59 yeah 11:58:06 also note the bit about creating lava! 11:58:10 the only good summon spell 11:58:17 along with malign gateway, the other only good summon spell 11:58:19 I thought that was malg.. 11:58:22 haha 11:59:03 we should turn box of beast into a summon spell (cap of one), so there can be three 11:59:27 Summon Beast (Not Hell) 11:59:42 "a beast (boxed)" 12:00:08 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:17 depending on your console size settings, it could be a beast (letterboxed) 12:04:46 -!- dustinm`_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:43 -!- Adeon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:17 -!- Guest81765 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:17 -!- knu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:17 -!- dustinm` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:19 -!- snapek has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:20 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:20 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:29 -!- rumflump has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:15 -!- DrKe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:39 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:39 Brannock: I don't read gimmick as negative. to me, the 'gimmick' is the unique shtick that makes a thing interesting to use. a book of flames without conjure flame would lack a neat gimmick 12:18:19 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:22:11 gimmick is also a really neat NES game 12:25:05 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-700-gbd4582c (34) 12:28:28 -!- Mezriss has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:31:49 -!- Mezriss has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:50 -!- yesno__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:49:29 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:58 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:54 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:16 I'm trying to figure out why travis-ci failed on on these two specific things, and all I can come up with is a timeout: https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/203311608 13:15:00 since all I did was fiddle with a couple numbers since the previous successful build 13:15:34 and it doesn't look like they should cause an error specifically with tourney webtiles and normal tiles on only the clang C++ compiler 13:16:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:17:07 Floodkiller: one build was very short because it failed to update the package database (this happens sometimes) 13:17:42 the other is weird, but I don't think it has anything to do with your code 13:17:56 seems like it just got stuck with some initial setup and failed to proceed 13:22:03 alright, I just wanted to see that I wasn't missing something, because I know some earlier pushes I made were entirely my fault for them breaking 13:25:24 rumflump: inner flame! 13:28:34 also, if anyone has the rights to rebuild on cbro, could they update/rebuild the cyno branch? it would be greatly appreciated 13:30:46 -!- andrew has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:31:08 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:33:01 I think that one is johnstein's server 13:39:49 -!- Surr has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:39:56 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:33 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:58 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:13 -!- lupus83 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49:00 Floodkiller: I can do it 13:49:01 but 13:49:22 I want to hear about gifts 13:51:11 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:51:46 gifts are a form of exchange where you trade tangible goods for self-satisfaction and warm fuzzies. 13:52:36 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-701-g576ffe5: Clarify Fighting description (Yewbacca) 10(21 seconds ago, 2 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/576ffe5d53d9 13:52:50 the heck can I sell warm fuzzies for profit?! 13:54:02 grammar.about.com/od/classicessays/a/emersongifts.htm 13:59:42 -!- Adeon_ is now known as Adeon 14:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:01 how about 19% of russian oil profits? 14:01:10 19.5%, wasn't it? 14:01:17 or was the 0.5% the transaction fee? 14:01:27 I don't remember the specifics 14:03:54 Experimental (cyno-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-555-g2849729 14:04:12 Floodkiller: I've decided my gift should be you dunking Pleasingfungus in the SA thread 14:04:23 it's the only thing that will make me happy 14:04:36 and it's rebuilt 14:04:37 is there a deadline on it, or can I save the dunking to be a surprise? 14:04:42 also, thanks 14:05:01 I guess you can save it but you have to let me know when you do 14:05:38 sure thing 14:05:38 yeah I felt that the old apt scaling wasn't sufficient to limit skilling 14:05:45 so that's probably a good change you made 14:05:53 not having looked closely at the new specifics 14:06:00 I wrote out a big numbers post in the SA thread, so you can scan that there 14:06:08 will do 14:06:25 it's not entirely detailed for every skill level, but it's decent enough imo 14:06:41 does this dog species also secretly implement your other project, unified accounts? 14:07:04 unfortunately no 14:09:00 I also forget exactly where I put it down last, so I should open it up again and take a look 14:09:08 probably somewhere in input validation hell 14:09:29 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-701-g576ffe5 (34) 14:10:07 hrm, I worry even with these apts it's not a super effective limit 14:10:46 the whole scaling thing seems extremely complicated to me 14:11:06 complicated in code, or in concept design? 14:11:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:19 the latter, i've not looked at the code 14:11:29 I haven't looked at the code at all but the way he described it is you lose 4 aptitude levels in the skill every time you hit a breakpoint level 14:11:36 you don't think that -N per M levels is pretty simple, MarvinPA? 14:11:36 seemed straightforward to me 14:11:47 where N is the aptitude 14:11:52 oh i assumed it scaled gradually 14:11:59 changing at breakpoints is also bad though! 14:12:19 ah, yeah this is a bit weird tbf 14:12:34 having a ton of hard skill breakpoints is something that has been explicitly moved away from as much as possible 14:12:35 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:49 so building a species on that sounds not good 14:13:12 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:25 gammafunk: it's not nice to promise something you'll never be able to deliver 14:13:28 if the scaling is too gradual, the player may not notice it is happening 14:13:30 no, Floodkiller is oging to deliver it 14:13:32 *going 14:13:41 I don't have to deliver anything, that's the beauty of it 14:13:51 wow... 14:14:19 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:47 in a similar vein, having the breakpoints also allows the user to actually enjoy the aptitude for a length of time before it changes, compared to a shallower or gradual scale where it might as well have just been a static aptitude 14:16:03 Floodkiller: right, i'm not really arguing for it to be gradual since that's how i thought it worked at first and that sounds complicated and messy to communicate well 14:16:15 just that it being breakpoint-based is also bad, separately 14:16:57 the static skill cap was definitely easier to communicate, for sure 14:17:05 (and that as a result that design might just be flawed) 14:18:56 currently it displays the aptitude in the skill menu, you can pull up the skill cost option for more specifics, and it gives a message to the player when the aptitude raises/lowers using mutation text color 14:20:03 but I would like to find a way to inform the player about when these changes occur before they happen 14:20:32 which is probably the only part of the system that isn't fully communicated 14:22:30 hmm does anyone know sequell-fu 14:22:34 !nwon 14:22:39 Subcommand $(=currentgames.inprogress BaAE|BaAr|BaAs|BaCK|BaEE|BaEn|BaFE|BaGl|BaHu|BaIE|BaMo|BaNe|BaSk|BaSu|BaTm|BaVM|BaWn|BaWr|BaWz|CeIE 12 ) failed: No keyword 'BaAE' in $(replace ), ) $(=currentga... in $(split $(replace ), ) $(... in $(length ${xs}) in $(= $(length ${xs}) 0) in $(null? ${xs}) in $(if $(null? ${xs}) ${z} $(c... in $(foldr annotate_combo $(rep... in $(if $(= ${1} x) x $(fold... 14:23:05 oh 14:23:08 your time has come, gammafunk 14:23:10 oh is it just dying because sequell doesn't know about Ba yet? 14:23:11 your powers are needed 14:23:13 yes 14:23:34 I can take a look 14:24:28 Floodkiller, insane off the wall idea: what if it was reliant on XL? Reduce aptitudes as you gain experience levels? Actually no, that'd be very bad, it'd make players feel bad about leveling up. 14:24:34 gammafunk: in terms of not being effective enough of a skill cap yet, I tentatively agree, but I don't want to hypertweak the species into being unplayable for casual players, so I'm fine with these current numbers until there is a larger sample size for comparison/feedback 14:25:26 well, xl seems less fundamentally flawed as a thing to use as a breakpoint at least 14:26:07 3-tiered mutation, one tier at say 6, 15, 24? 14:26:22 Can't teach an old dog new tricks..! 14:26:36 yeah, tying a species mutation to the breakpoints could probably work 14:27:03 Actually two tiers might be better 14:27:09 So you could go like +3 to +0 to -3? 14:27:11 but the problem again is that it might discourage leveling up 14:27:28 Well how are they going to get experience for their skills if they're avoiding leveling up? 14:29:04 !nwon 14:29:25 20 combos won at most 9 times: BaAE BaAr BaAs BaCK BaEE(glosham) BaEn BaFE(Train) BaGl(FunFrog,MorganLeah,Roshnak) BaHu BaIE(bureaucrat,herbaltea) BaMo(MrPlanck,Sar) BaNe BaSk BaSu BaTm BaVM BaWn BaWr BaWz(Berder) CeIE 14:29:26 this might be countins basajaun wins 14:29:27 it also cuts out the flexibilty aspect more, as with that system it becomes more important than ever to hyperfocus something while you have the good aptitudes for it 14:29:48 What if you brought back the flat skill caps? 14:29:51 Increase the cap with each mutation 14:29:56 But slow down aptitudes with the cap increases 14:29:59 !lg * bane won s=crace 14:29:59 3 games for * (bane won): 2x Barachian, Basajaun 14:30:25 !nwon crace!=basajuan 14:30:25 Subcommand $(=nwon.list crace!=basajuan ) failed: Broken query near 'crace!=basajuan' in $(= ${x} x) in $(if $(= ${x} x) All combos ... 14:30:27 So a cap of 9 with mutation 1, 18 with mutation 2, 27 with mutation 3 14:30:31 (imaginary numbers) 14:30:36 !nwon 28 crace!=basajaun 14:30:42 Subcommand $(=currentgames.inprogress BaAE|BaAr|BaAs|BaBe|BaCK|BaEE|BaEn|BaFE|BaFi|BaGl|BaHu|BaIE|BaMo|BaNe|BaSk|BaSu|BaTm|BaVM|BaWn|BaWr|BaWz|CeAE|CeAr|CeAs|CeCj|CeEE|CeEn|CeFE|CeIE|CeNe|CeSk|CeSu|CeTm|CeVM|CeWz|DDAE|DDAK|DDAM|DDCj|DDEn|DDIE|DDSk|DDSu|DDVM|DDWr|DDWz|DEAK|DEAM|DEAr|DEAs|DECK|DEFi|DEGl|DEHu|DESk|DETm|DEWn|DEWr|DgAM|DgAs|DgEn|DgHu|DgSu|DgWr|DrAM|FeAE|FeAK|FeAr|FeNe|FeWr|FoAE|FoCj|Fo... 14:30:46 good 14:30:56 what was broken, gammafunk? 14:31:00 anyhow it might be working 14:32:27 -!- thurin has quit [Changing host] 14:33:01 -!- thurin has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:33:45 can breakpoints really be judged bad on the fact that they're breakpoints alone? one of the things crawl does well is take a thing that's "bad" (-Tele, slow movement, roleplaying a person who won't chop corpses, other KoL/nethack conducts) and build a race or god partially around that bad thing 14:34:38 -tele and slow movement are bad from a player perspective 14:34:52 not from a design perspective 14:36:01 whereas skill breakpoints are the latter (even though a bunch still exist!) 14:36:34 shields, mindelay, anything else? 14:36:50 spellpower 14:36:59 Brannock: I did an implementation that increased the skill cap before (although not based on XL/mutations), and the issue was that it encouraged the player to go micromanage the skill menu a bunch of times each time the cap increased to bump everything they find essential back up to the new skill cap 14:37:00 -!- Rast- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:40 I like micromanaging skills, personally. But yeah that seems a bit of a problem 14:37:52 I think the race's core idea is workable, just need to find a good design that conveys it 14:39:15 Asmomeus's tile is not completely darkened 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10945 by lampshaded 14:39:37 that's an old one 14:40:31 shields and mindelay are the two big ones, some day galehar will return in glory and finish that ancient mindelay-removal branch... 14:40:45 if that was even ever a branch, maybe it was just a bunch of graphs on the devwiki 14:40:52 spell slots, also 14:40:59 oh man, I remember these graphs 14:43:41 MarvinPA: would there be any problem with !nwon just ignoring experimental games? 14:44:14 seems like it would be better for it to do so, if anything 14:44:25 yes 14:45:02 there was a guy in the crawl thread a while back who argued in favor of breakpoints 14:45:19 for being Good Playerfeel ("I maxed out the thing!"), something like that 14:45:20 !nwon 14:45:26 iirc he was a wow dev? but i didn't know that at the time 14:45:44 17 combos won at most 9 times: BaAr BaAs BaCK BaEn BaFE(Train) BaGl(FunFrog,MorganLeah,Roshnak) BaHu BaIE(bureaucrat,herbaltea) BaMo(MrPlanck,Sar) BaNe BaSk BaSu BaTm BaVM BaWn BaWr CeIE 14:46:05 !lg * basu won 14:46:06 3. Lasty the Slayer (L27 BaSu of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-02-16 01:11:03, with 1588744 points after 76320 turns and 5:23:54. 14:46:09 it can be pleasing to hit a number and have that be a decision point where you either forge on ahead or branch out. a mini achievement, like you say 14:46:10 lasty........ 14:46:24 that lonely ceie 14:46:46 !nwon 3 28 14:47:09 12 combos won at most 3 times: BaAs BaCK BaEn BaFE BaHu BaMo BaNe BaSu BaTm BaVM BaWn BaWr 14:47:15 !nwon 1 28 14:47:35 3 combos won at most 1 times: BaEn BaHu BaWr 14:48:03 PF really messed up the nwon number, how will we ever make it back to 9?! 14:48:17 anyway mostly i just wanted to know what nwon was actually at but i guess Ba has ruined that! 14:48:32 it seems to be still 9 for non-ba 14:48:47 but due to just one combo, ceie 14:49:11 MarvinPA: ruined, huh? worried that I'm stepping on your turf? huh? huh? 14:49:16 * Pleasingfungus flexes 14:49:39 ruined by adding a thing, the worst kind of ruining! 14:49:53 lol 14:49:58 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 14:51:22 hey, remove ce and we can call it even 14:52:28 hmm, !unwon also seems broken 14:53:13 !lg * !experimental playable s=char / won ?: N=0 14:53:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:20 i think that's what it should be, except i forget how to do formatting 14:53:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:33 203 games for * (!experimental playable): 0/11x BaEE [0.00%], 0/21x BaCj [0.00%], 0/22x BaAM [0.00%], 0/22x BaAE [0.00%], 0/24x BaWz [0.00%], 0/103x BaAK [0.00%] 14:53:47 !unwon 14:53:48 Broken query near ' ?: N=0' 14:54:02 !hs * baak 14:54:03 105. emikaela the Barachian Blade (L21 BaAK of Lugonu), shot by a yaktaur (bolt) (led by a vault warden) on Vaults:3 on 2017-02-13 02:20:21, with 332832 points after 71398 turns and 3:53:17. 14:54:34 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:46 seems like something must've changed with how formatting worked there, since !unwon's just pretty simple otherwise 14:55:09 yeah I can try to fix that 14:55:24 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:34 did you see my tell the other day about barachians / '-potion after potion'? 14:55:36 -!- eb_mobile is now known as eb 14:56:09 i guess maybe it's okay if they just have another mechanic that's vaguely froggish thematically, even if it's not necessarily tied into the hop or the slow move 14:56:20 03Brannock02 07[warper] * 0.20-a0-702-gea68139: Swap Gravitas and Portal Projectile 10(27 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea6813923d3f 14:56:20 03Brannock02 07[warper] * 0.20-a0-703-g16b016f: Make Gell's Gravitas use Tloc only 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/16b016fdabde 14:56:20 03Brannock02 07[warper] * 0.20-a0-704-gbbd08f1: Make Portal Projectile use Hexes 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bbd08f1b7cbe 14:56:21 okay, cleaned up some stuff and added commit messagse 14:56:21 I'm ready to push this, just want a sanity check from others 14:56:32 gammafunk was favorable yesterday, I think? 14:56:37 -potion after potion still doesn't seem that great to me. i was brainstorming a little more last night... best idea i came up with was "slow stair-climbing" 14:57:06 Brannock: i might squash it into one commit, but that's a matter of taste 14:57:11 i saw it yeah, i wouldn't say i'm super enthused about the -potion thing either necessarily 14:57:17 just that i prefer it to messing with delays maybe 14:57:30 The PProj commit is the one I was unsure about, and having it separate means easy revert 14:57:35 delays are spooky and complicated 14:57:38 i mean 14:57:41 it doesn't use delay code 14:57:49 i'm not sure if you realized that? 14:58:01 Brannock: any thought on adjusting spell levels? 14:58:11 GG to 4 maybe..? 14:58:21 I think PP is fine at 3, especiallyw ith the second spell school 14:58:41 right, i mean just in the sense of being a delayed action 14:58:43 i'm not sure either. 14:58:47 MarvinPA: ok, just checking 14:59:12 i also had the brilliant idea of Fast Potion-Drinking, but i don't know that it's very exciting at all 14:59:13 delays with delay code are especially spooky and complicated, for sure! 14:59:15 haha 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:16 heh, CYC notes that Zin's temple in Holy Pan now has a bunch of !mut 15:00:28 damn it, I thought I caught all the Zin exceptions 15:00:40 oh, it'd be in pan.des wouldn't it, so I must have overlooked it 15:00:55 CYC demands that rMut items be added as replacements 15:01:09 and by CYC i mean that one very prolific cyc poster 15:01:13 who seems to think it's gdd lite 15:01:15 also that tloc stuff looks vaguely reasonable to me, single school L3 gravitas sounds ok at least 15:01:31 since it's fairly power-dependent anyway 15:01:34 yeah 15:02:02 I wish tavern would be reorganized, it's weird to have very ilttle actual crawl discussion in DCA, most "general" discussion in the joke forum, and GDD is idea proposal: the forum 15:02:12 best of all would be to somehow make the AM book not have a million different spell schools in it but that's Hard 15:04:02 the new book looks okay to me, actually, since it has a clear split between "spells that stop monsters from getting to me" and "spells that help me shoot them" 15:04:04 3 and 3 of each 15:04:15 still a lot of spells, of coures! 15:04:29 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-702-gea68139: Swap Gravitas and Portal Projectile 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea6813923d3f 15:04:29 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-703-g16b016f: Make Gell's Gravitas use Tloc only 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/16b016fdabde 15:04:29 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-704-gbbd08f1: Make Portal Projectile use Hexes 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bbd08f1b7cbe 15:04:54 you don't *have* to use all of them :) 15:05:19 !learn set book_of_debilitation Corona, Slow, Inner Flame, Portal Projectile, Cause Fear, Leda's Liquefaction 15:05:19 book of debilitation[1/1]: Corona, Slow, Inner Flame, Portal Projectile, Cause Fear, Leda's Liquefaction 15:05:57 !learn set book_of_spatial_translocations Blink, Shroud of Golubria, Lesser Beckoning, Gell's Gravitas, Teleport Other, Passage of Golubria 15:05:57 book of spatial translocations[1/1]: Blink, Shroud of Golubria, Lesser Beckoning, Gell's Gravitas, Teleport Other, Passage of Golubria 15:05:58 retheme leda's to be some kind of weird repulsion field so it can be hex/tloc, that's one school down! then just need to make inner flame hex/tloc somehow 15:06:03 !unwon 15:06:23 203 games for * (!experimental playable): 0/11x BaEE [0.00%], 0/21x BaCj [0.00%], 0/22x BaAM [0.00%], 0/22x BaAE [0.00%], 0/24x BaWz [0.00%], 0/103x BaAK [0.00%] 15:06:25 Leda's Liquefication -> Gravity Field, surely 15:06:38 MarvinPA: fixed, although that command is sort of wierd 15:06:41 *weird 15:06:42 That also solves the flight thing 15:06:51 if you use any arguments, that is 15:07:05 cool, cheers 15:07:44 all your work to of course be obsoleted either way when they're all won soon, but still :P 15:08:03 +1 for gravity field 15:08:06 -!- sametbh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:19 that's when we'll add the next race 15:08:28 the return of plutonians... 15:08:34 i never really understood what their deal was 15:08:46 they exploded a lot. which was bad... or good? 15:08:47 mutations? or contam or something 15:08:49 something something contamination 15:08:55 ??plutonian 15:08:55 plutonian[1/2]: Ancient experimental species. Gets contam instead of hunger but loses contam on killing things. Their MP and HP regeneration are faster the higher their contam is. 15:09:09 very djinn-era 15:09:11 also 'ancient', wow 15:09:27 !lg * pl 1 x=cv 15:09:30 1/589. [cv=0.15-a] cbrotest the Skirmisher (L2 PlBe of Trog), slain by an adder on D:2 on 2014-05-18 06:56:46, with 16 points after 765 turns and 0:06:29. 15:09:36 basically the dark ages 15:09:45 i honestly like the sound of that design 15:09:54 ??plutonian[2 15:09:54 plutonian[2/2]: Instead of mutating at high contam, they get an extra large explosion. 15:10:17 kind of sad that [3] isn't 15:10:27 "instead of doing damage, explosions heal them" 15:10:46 wow, that [2 15:11:37 %git plutonian 15:11:37 Could not find commit plutonian (git returned 128) 15:11:42 reminds me of when Yermak invised so hard, that he underflowed the invis duration 15:11:47 that was great 15:11:50 and basically became a spriggan plutonian 15:11:51 that was a chaos cloud in a zig, right? 15:11:53 yeah 15:12:09 er, not a zig 15:12:10 in the abyss 15:12:22 just an apoc crab 15:13:36 Pleasingfungus, my friend found the Fencer's Gloves on a long blade IJC worshipper and is talking about how cool the artefact is and how strong it feels 15:14:05 :) 15:14:12 I had a run with it too 15:14:17 forget what weapon I used it with 15:14:19 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:40 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:41 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:45 dark maul, obviously 15:16:02 I was going to suggest it would be nice in meat sprint, but probably monster there don't miss you much 15:16:31 IJC seems like a hit 15:16:42 more like... a racist hit 15:16:53 for racists 15:17:00 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:24 I can't tell if being ironic 15:18:05 lil bit 15:18:21 there was a whole argument about whether the god was racist or not, yesterday 15:19:25 probably my phrasing was not constructive. 15:19:40 for that Holy Pan vault, how about potions of cancellation? 15:19:43 ijc does seem well-liked! which is nice 15:19:45 Brannock: sure 15:19:49 powerful... 15:20:05 -!- Perryman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:41 you don't have to replace with potions 15:20:47 you could branch out to other thematic loot 15:21:00 cancellation is pretty thematic. what else would fit, though? 15:21:01 cure mutation was just an especially zin-relavant thing 15:21:02 I'm open to ideas 15:21:12 !source evilmike_holy_pan 15:21:12 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des#L3925 15:21:15 I suppose it does lower contam 15:21:25 just anything that feels vaguely zin-like? 15:21:31 lajatangs of order 15:21:34 laj of or...yeah 15:21:36 just all of 'em 15:21:38 everywhere 15:21:40 zin's broom closet 15:21:50 zin likes gold 15:21:59 gold and/or acquire? 15:22:07 dunno, just mentioning that it doesn't have to be a potion 15:22:24 I should code up purloining/awareness today just so we have some more rare stuff to reward for vaults, because exp/acq is getting a bit overloaded here 15:22:55 a special artefact food, Mana 15:23:01 eat it once, never lose satiation 15:23:05 divine jellies? 15:23:16