00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:17 yeah i think i'm just going to let that continue to bug me instead of doing anything since any solution would have weird collateral damage 00:00:27 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-656-g9b0dcd9 (34) 00:00:30 the smoke is dirty ice crystals, because they got dirty walking on the ground 00:01:28 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 00:01:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:07:40 hmm, how _do_ I start a non-wizmode character in a debug build? 00:08:38 -!- HeithinnGrasida has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:12 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 00:10:10 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-656-g9b0dcd9 (34) 00:10:36 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:49 advil, you dont 00:11:46 ok 00:25:56 c o m p i l e & b u i l d 00:26:51 or, case CONTROL('Z'): you.wizard = false; Options.wiz_mode = WIZ_NO; redraw_screen(); break; 00:28:34 -!- vinski[BKN] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:18 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:13 :) 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:19 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:08:05 -!- grisha5 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:08:17 -!- grisha5_ is now known as grisha5 01:12:05 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:12:45 -!- grisha5 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:19:18 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:06 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:39 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:19 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:11 !tell PleasingFungus http://www.deviantart.com/art/BOF2-remix-451519729 Draconian, Cyno, Felid, Tengu, Barachian, Vine Stalker, Naga. Clearly all we're missing is an armadillo (Australia!) and monkey (Human..?) species 01:50:11 Brannock: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 01:51:01 actually, now that I consider it I don't think armadillos are Australian 01:51:05 They're just Texan? 01:51:19 Hot, dry, desolate and huuuuge. Easily confused with the outback 01:55:16 ad formerly south american 01:55:23 but not australian apparently 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:23 -!- sneakyness has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:58 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 02:03:56 they're not specifically texan 02:04:06 they're seen through out the southern/central US 02:04:14 and mexico/central america 02:04:25 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04:27 they're rather common in texas though 02:05:09 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:33 -!- grisha5_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:06:05 clearly we need a dropbear species >.> 02:14:06 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 02:18:04 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:31 indeed 02:29:51 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:59 -!- fazisi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:34:17 -!- HeithinnGrasida has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:34:32 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:49 -!- HeithinnGrasida has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:14 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 02:43:16 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:37 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:11 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:51:37 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:07 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:08 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:59 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:05:27 -!- Sose has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:10:11 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:27 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-656-g9b0dcd9 (34) 03:14:32 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:14:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:11 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:05 -!- sneakyness has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:28:14 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:58 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:00 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:58 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:17 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:33 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:49:09 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:50:23 -!- Kramin__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:07 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:06 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:37 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:35 -!- Blazinghbnd has joined ##crawl-dev 04:19:11 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 04:20:29 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:33:44 -!- LTH_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:41:53 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:28 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:33 -!- fazisi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:10:21 -!- eb has quit [] 05:17:36 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:17:53 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:41 -!- fazisi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:17 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:33 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:48 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:59 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52:21 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:52:40 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:58:43 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:33 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:34 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:27 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:46 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:12:19 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:41 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:26 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:46 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:31 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:11 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:02 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:11 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:24 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:29 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:46:11 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:49 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:36 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:56 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:12 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:18 -!- rohan_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:26:57 !tell pleasingfungus Re: jump being the core concept, I think this issue is this: the race is _always_ weak to balance jump, but it can't _always_ be jumping; using it constantly is irritating, using it periodically means you're usually not getting the benefit that offsets your otherwise weak character. Further, because your char is weak, you do often need to jump to recover from the frequent bad situations you get into. 08:26:57 Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 403. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 08:27:05 !tell pleasingfungus Re: jump being the core concept, I think this issue is this: the race is _always_ weak to balance jump, but it can't _always_ be jumping; using it constantly is irritating, using it periodically means you're usually not getting the benefit that offsets your otherwise weak character. 08:27:06 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 08:27:36 !tell pleasingfungus Further, because your char is weak, you do often need to jump to recover from the frequent bad situations you get into, and when jump dicks you over (which it is designed to do) that quickly turns a bad situation into a crisis. 08:27:37 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 08:29:56 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:40 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:40 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:45:57 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:46:47 -!- HeithinnGrasida has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:47:15 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:47:22 -!- HeithinnGrasida has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:55 -!- bgiannan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 08:53:04 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:38 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:55:03 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:08 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 08:55:11 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:55:42 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:40 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:59:10 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:00 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:43 -!- shpingle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:11 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:30 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:51:07 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:30 -!- shpingle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:55:52 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: lates] 10:00:00 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:08 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:00:19 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:28 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:11 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:45 -!- HeithinnGrasida has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:29:03 -!- HeithinnGrasida has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:56 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:33 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:41:23 -!- Yewbacca has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 10:52:40 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:45 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:59 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:58:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:42 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:32 !tell lasty i think your premise is flawed. jump can only 'dick you over' if you assume it's going to land you on/past the destination. it's a matter of expectations. 11:12:33 Pleasingfungus: OK, I'll let lasty know. 11:14:10 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:23 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:05 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:15:16 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:18 !tell hellmonk I'm finally trying out hellcrawl. Currently on d:5, and so far no food has been nice. No ID/curses has been interesting too, but I'm not certain how I feel about it overall. It definitely streamlines things. Hopefully I'll get to see some new Zot monsters this run. <.< >.> 11:18:19 Lasty_: OK, I'll let hellmonk know. 11:18:57 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 11:19:26 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:21:34 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:15 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:24 New branch created: pull/459 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/459 11:24:25 03Glenn Matthews02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/459 * 0.20-a0-648-gfab0829: Barbs affect more movement methods. More restrictions on hopping. 10(22 hours ago, 6 files, 96+ 42-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fab08298a0b7 11:24:33 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:56 not bad 11:26:28 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:26:44 -!- HeithinnGrasida has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:30 -!- HeithinnGrasida has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:00 imo: bad 11:31:38 "barbs damage you if you take one of these n arbitrary actions" does not seem like any kind of improvement on "barbs damage you if you make a movement action" 11:31:43 yeah 11:32:00 also "can't hop if exhaustion but hop otherwise never sets exhaustion" 11:32:13 hop literally has a -hop status of its own 11:32:31 however exh itself is kind of this problematic thing whose definition has expanded a lot recently 11:32:41 so I can understand the confusion/tendency to expand it further 11:33:54 has it? the only recent change is ru, surely 11:34:07 is that all. I swear there's another one! 11:34:33 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:35:01 I guess it is only Ru stuff 11:35:04 don't think so, i had been considering merging breath into exh though, i think that might still be reasonable 11:36:00 well, it's not totally unreasonable 11:36:15 but mark my words, that futher opens the door for more exhaustion-tied mechanics! 11:36:46 I suppose it's not really any major kind of problem if exh is a check on a specific set of things 11:37:45 *further 11:38:06 it'd still be a fairly short list (berserk, breath weapons, recite, ddoor, ru) 11:38:06 -!- geeko55 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:38:43 seems very weird to have two distinct "timer" durations split across that list, although maybe it'd also be fine to go the other way and have ability-specific cooldowns 11:39:32 since those aren't uncommon elsewhere (tornado, dcall, etc) 11:39:37 yeah 11:39:38 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:39:43 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:58 and opens the door for fun "how many statuses can I get" cheevos 11:40:37 fwiw what I like about that PR is that it makes hop much less abstract, even if it increases arbitrariness 11:40:58 Barachian suffer from overabstraction right now compared to the other species 11:41:05 hopping while netted doesn't make much sense 11:41:41 as for -breath going into exh, I think simplification is good, but at the same time unsure about disincentivizing Trog/Ru/Zin for draconians 11:42:05 Ability-specific cooldowns are fine IMO -- just concerned about running out of space on the UI 11:42:56 Hop using exhaustion seems really bad since the ability doesn't set exhausion; it has a special cooldown designed for that purpose 11:43:17 Yeah, I think I'd probably cut that from the PR 11:43:24 Also probably cut the liquefication 11:46:05 why block it under roots but not liquefaction, that seems like a whole extra level of arbitrary 11:47:55 roots, like nets, are physically restraining the frog from jumping. frogs can jump in water, soggy ground seems like no problem. 11:48:35 frogs can't cast flight while liquefied, same as everyone else 11:48:47 likewise while rooted 11:48:54 huh, okay 11:49:08 now that I think about it I don't think i've ever actually seen a monster cast LL in my play 11:50:46 monsters don't cast it, except maybe ghosts 11:51:27 what about the barbs part of that PR? 11:51:36 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 11:52:22 that was the bit i initially objected to, much more so than the hop bit (which i still don't really like) 11:52:43 yeah, simpler rules for the player to think about for something like that are better 11:53:06 crawl doesn't have a way of communicating "no, this is really just physical movement" 11:53:28 CLOUD_DUST! 11:54:04 well, at minimum I'm okay with restricting Hop if rooted/netted. The rest I don't feel as strongly about (thus initial noncommittal "not bad") 11:54:04 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:54:51 i think hop currently makes escape attempts against the net 11:55:09 hrm 11:55:12 or maybe that's vs constrict 11:55:28 i always get those mixed up 11:56:34 anyway, cool to go from 'this species-defining ability should be powerful and fun' to 'let's add a bunch of arbitrary flavor-based restrictions' 11:56:44 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:58:06 like fuzzing?! 11:58:14 but yeah, hmm 11:58:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:59:39 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:38 i don't think fuzzing the destination (a thing that pretty much defines it as a distinct thing from cblink and kinda has no flavour either way and noticeably applies to every single use of the ability) is really comparable to a bunch of very rare, specific restrictions 12:00:38 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:03:34 anyway! i don't have strong opinions on ba other than vaguely agreeing with the idea that they're not super exciting and also that this PR isn't an improvement to them 12:04:15 hm 12:04:20 I was being facetious about fuzzing 12:04:20 give them heat aura 12:04:34 Brannock: you failed your joke roll. i'm sorry 12:04:37 damn it! 12:04:57 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-656-g9b0dcd9 (34) 12:06:23 i have a hard time wrt improving hop, since i personally enjoy it, so it's hard to respond to lasty etc finding it annoying to use. but i do agree that the species is a little simple overall, so that's something i can try to work on 12:06:39 will keep it on the back of my mind for a bit, see if i can come up with a good idea before release 12:07:09 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:40 Okay, commented on that PR with the results/summary of this discussion 12:10:47 make them hairy frogs 12:10:58 then merge them with felids 12:10:59 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_frog 12:11:39 oh, is this what was mentioned last night with bone spurs 12:12:40 looks like it 12:12:53 David Cannatella, a herpetologist at the University of Texas, Austin, questions whether the bony protrusions are meant for fighting. They could allow a frog's feet "to get a better grip on whatever rocky habitat they might be in," he says. 12:12:56 player clinging!!! 12:13:43 !learn add animal_rule No more animals. 12:13:44 animal rule[1/1]: No more animals. 12:13:57 next species must be a prokaryote 12:14:27 Volvoxi 12:14:28 !learn add rule_rule No more rules. 12:14:29 rule rule[2/2]: No more rules. 12:14:33 ??rule rule 12:14:33 rule rule[1/2]: no more rules 12:14:35 fuck! 12:14:38 rekt 12:14:39 !learn del rule_rule[2 12:14:39 Deleted rule rule[2/2]: No more rules. 12:14:47 ironic... 12:15:36 I wonder if a player species that used TRJ spawning rules would be good. Upon taking damage, spawn very temporary allies 12:16:08 Some sort of living colony, kinda like Vine Stalker 12:16:15 slime creature... 12:16:17 that's already a J effect 12:16:19 it's going to feel very redundant with summons spells/god abilities/evocables 12:16:20 fwiw 12:16:33 unless it has rather special rules about how these allies behave 12:16:49 oh speaking of evocables 12:16:51 like if they're just some free summons I don't think it would be good 12:16:59 idk, 'take damage to spawn allies' plays pretty differently from 'cast a spell to spawn allies' 12:17:18 even if the allies are the same once you get em 12:17:55 it's just pretty redundant with all the other ways you can make simple allies: here's another way for some free ally damage 12:18:14 I think you might be able to do something interesting if they're quite special in some way 12:18:16 do you think the j effect should be removed 12:18:24 since, again, this already exists 12:18:34 Well for Jiyva it's concordant with a bunch of other stuff the god does 12:18:49 I'm almost done with a branch that has ?recharge able to recharge XP evokers, but I can't figure out this bug that sprouted up. ?recharge now looks at the entire inventory at prompt instead of only eligible items. 12:18:58 gammafunk reminded me by mentioning evocables 12:18:59 yeah I don't think the existance of a single god passive is the same as the core concept of a species 12:19:00 sounds like you're using the wrong OSEL 12:19:05 possibly 12:19:09 lemme get a pastebin up 12:19:28 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:54 http://pastebin.com/PYQqASmx 12:21:17 the diff is weird because of moving code around 12:21:28 if it's too unreadable I'll just put up the branch 12:21:49 but item_is_rechargeable is where I think whatever is going wrong is 12:30:37 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:31:03 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 12:32:12 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:48 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:37:53 hm 12:38:00 + && !is_xp_evoker) 12:38:28 yeah that line is weird 12:38:34 should be is_xp_evoker(it)? 12:38:41 line 166 12:38:49 166 in the pastebin 12:39:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:14 !source is_xp_evoker 12:40:14 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/item-prop.cc#L3023 12:40:30 damn 12:40:58 looks like you're checking "is the function pointer is_xp_evoker non-null?" 12:41:08 which a good compiler would warn about, i think 12:41:58 btw Pleasingfungus, whatever happened to PleasingFungus? i miss that guy 12:42:06 i hate him 12:47:38 fwiw i think the whole function is a lot easier to read if the maze of if x return y expressions is untangled into a boolean expression: https://gist.github.com/amalloy/671bd7400fc37c4bc2daabd34132da66 12:48:17 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 12:48:23 that's awful 12:48:27 please no 12:48:31 i mean. no offense 12:48:53 but that's a tangling, not an untangling 12:48:55 an item is rechargable if it is of a rechargable base type, and either we don't care about being full or it's not full 12:49:09 it would help if your indentation was better, i guess 12:49:18 everything after the 'return' needs to be one indentation level deeper 12:50:00 i can't really figure out the crawlcode style for indenting multiline expressions 12:51:42 the multi-statement version requires careful reading to figure out which way the short-circuiting is being done at each step - return false doesn't look that different from return true. with && and || everyone already knows how they behave and a single english sentence is an easy explanation of what it does 12:51:48 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:52 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:26 -!- chewymouse has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:54:04 it's also so long that you can forget what is already known to be true by the time you get to the end. eg, there was an unnecessary repeated check for is_xp_evoker that was guaranteed to be true 12:54:35 that did trip me up when I was initially working on that code 12:54:39 I had to read it over a few times 12:55:48 as someone who had trouble with the previous version, what do you think of my suggestion, Brannock? 12:56:03 I agree about the indentation. Let me look at this again 12:56:27 amalloy: i have the same problem about forgetting what's known to be true by the time i get to the end with your version 12:56:42 It still reads slowly but it's more sequential and not spread out 12:56:44 the longer version works better for me because it's easier to compartmentalize and break it down into pieces mentally 12:57:06 that might just be me! 12:58:29 New branch created: recharge (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/recharge 12:58:29 03Brannock02 07[recharge] * 0.20-a0-657-g829ecf6: Rename recharge_wand to recharge_item 10(7 days ago, 4 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/829ecf67511b 12:58:29 03Brannock02 07[recharge] * 0.20-a0-658-g5c0391c: Allow ?recharging to work on XP evokers 10(7 days ago, 2 files, 59+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5c0391c18122 12:58:31 i think you are right if you want to think about it as a sequence of checks to be performed imperatively. i'd rather think of it as an expression about what conditions need to be met, in which case it's already nicely compartmentalized by the parentheses 12:58:57 oh also i think i forgot to invert one of the checks 12:59:07 the >= should be < 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:25 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:46 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:23 i don't really see that making ?recharge work on xp evokers is a good feature, feels again like making it do a multiple arbitrary different things 13:13:37 moving away from that with rod removal was a big improvement imo 13:13:48 s/do a/do/ 13:14:12 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:45 -!- Surr has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:15:21 with rods it made them stronger and made them charge faster. with evokers, it gives you another charge, like how with wands it gives you another few charges. 13:15:33 but I accept the criticism of not wanting it to do different things based on item type 13:16:04 MarvinPA, my concern was actually that this would be too powerful -- remember stacking evokers? 13:16:16 bring back recharging weapons of elec 13:16:16 i think really, having a consumable that turns another consumable into more of that consumable just isn't that great a thing (on the wand side) 13:16:17 but I think staggering it with turns in between would help 13:16:47 minmay: was that equivalent to enchant weapon? i forget 13:16:49 MarvinPA, I actually agree, which was part of the motivation towards expanding ?recharge a bit 13:16:59 so it's not just "you get more wands, the scroll" 13:17:07 i don't think making it do something else in addition to that is really an improvement to that problem though 13:17:08 I think it was equivalent to 2 scrolls of enchant weapon II 13:17:56 now that's flavour... 13:18:15 if only there had been an Electric Weapon spell. imagine the possibilities 13:18:50 you could get a temp elec brand with the blade card! possibly, i don't know if that existed at the same time as the recharge/elec interaction did 13:19:31 might have happened after that was already removed 13:20:38 I think that the interaction between XP evokers recharging naturally and the limited availability of ?recharge makes the decision on whether or not to use it more interesting. Right now ?recharge is "did I run out of charges on a good wand? if yes, recharge it." With this branch it would be "do I think I need another cast of phial/fan of gales *right now*? Or can I wait it out and let it recharge naturally? Should I keep a few 13:20:38 spares handy just in case, or use them on my wands right now?" 13:21:24 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:21:30 in general mixing tactical/strategic uses on a single item probably isn't great, it's not worked for similar things in the past 13:21:50 arguably they're both tactical 13:22:09 very reminiscent of old !restore abilities 13:22:34 is "three more iceblasts" fundamentally different from "another lamp of fire right now"? idk 13:22:43 speaking as a player, I would use ?recharge on fan of gales in particular, especially during stuff like the Orb run, Hell diving, or stair escaping 13:23:47 right, currently the xp cooldowns work pretty well and i'm not sure that is a good thing to enable a bunch more frequently 13:23:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:21 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:31 12.73 ?recharge in a full-clear of a 3 rune game. Most players will find 7-9 probably. 13:25:36 according to objstat 13:26:09 if you're changing what it does, of course, you could change the frequency. 13:26:28 I'd probably tune it down a bit, as this is an increase in scroll power 13:26:48 honestly, I'd probably tune it down anyway 13:26:52 for the reasons MPA described earlier 13:26:56 right now it's just "more wandS" 13:27:35 well i don't think "more wands" is an interesting thing for it to do at any level of rarity, in particular 13:28:45 one other idea I had bouncing around was to make ?recharge do a full recharge of the wand, but to halve max charges each time. You'd have to find new wands instead of continually recharging the same wand. Unsure how interesting that would actually be, which is why I haven't coded it yet 13:29:10 Also mildly incentivizes using ?acq for evokables 13:41:08 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:31 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:59 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 13:52:31 on the topic of breath/exhaustion, I think merging them seems fine. Trog, Ru, and Draconians are all strong enough to take the small nerf. It probably is more noticeable in making Zin worshippers have a harder time berserking, but I don't know that it's significant there either. 13:53:50 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:09 i'm vaguely tending towards thinking that separating all the things that use breath/exh into their own cooldowns might even be better, now 13:54:15 i think the balance effects are pretty much inconsequential either way around 13:54:44 and merging them all requires doing something about *rage (probably allowing it to trigger unintentional berserks even while exhausted) 13:54:50 Pleasingfungus: re: hop, I did have some further thoughts: if you could balance it with another periodically-relevant tactical restriction rather than the always-releveant slow movement and low stats, I think it would play better; since you're not constantly paying for an ability you can only sometimes use (and sometimes fails) you wouldn't need to lean on the ability quite so hard to make up the difference. 13:55:06 low stats? 13:55:08 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:11 what low stats?? 13:55:12 might still merge them all first anyway since that seems like an improvement over status quo still 13:55:40 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:47 Lasty_: yeah, that seems reasonable. 13:56:10 don't suppose you have any particular thoughts wrt periodically-relevant tactical restrictions? 13:56:30 unconsidered idea: could give them Mesmeritis 13:57:09 I agree with MPA about separating them all into their own cooldowns. No opinion on how to get there, though 13:57:12 Pleasingfungus: did the low stats change? 13:57:15 Yes, last night 13:57:17 oh 13:57:18 Up from 18 to 24 13:57:20 Human level 13:57:21 %git 13:57:21 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-656-g9b0dcd9: Increase Barachian stats to human levels 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9b0dcd9656c5 13:57:23 just in time for me to miss it :p 13:57:24 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57:31 ya. i didn't expect you'd have seen em 13:57:33 i'm just a "troll" 13:57:51 twisted....... 13:58:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:16 Brannock: doesn't seem like it'd have to be that big a deal, could be one commit even 13:58:22 wrt splitting cooldowns 13:58:25 Pleasingfungus: unfortunately, the tactical restrictions that came to my mind are already in use on Formicids. I'll try to come up with something better/different. 13:59:11 mesmeritis would be a weird effect. does fit well with their barbarous/bloodthirsty flavour 13:59:21 how would it trigger? 13:59:25 on hit? on sight? 13:59:36 i was thinking same as obsaxe, so probably on sight 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:21 would you be allowed to hop away, or only hop towards? 14:00:36 -!- n_crm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:45 i'd allow hopping away 14:01:18 so you'd have a limited innate mesm-breaking resource (limited by the -hop effect) 14:01:46 seems weird that hopping would be allowed to break it, but cblink wouldn't 14:01:52 true 14:02:05 -!- eb has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:11 might be hard to avoid letting hop break it, given the fuzz 14:02:23 What about delayed consumables: blurry vision / blurry drinking? 14:02:36 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:37 The build passed. (recharge - 5c0391c #7835 : Isaac Sloat): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/202340831 14:02:37 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 14:02:55 i'm not sure i understand the connection 14:03:02 just brainstorming random unrelated restrictions? 14:03:41 Pleasingfungus: I'm trying to brainstorm things that might result in good gameplay, not worrying about theme yet 14:03:47 i'm not talking about theme 14:04:00 i'm talking about mechanical interactions with the existing frog mechanic(s) ("frogchanics") 14:04:00 those don't result in good gameplay imo! as evidenced by current blurry vision and its weird messy prompts 14:04:07 MarvinPA: true 14:04:10 that's a problem 14:04:32 my issue with blurry vision is that it confuses players about how action timing works 14:04:34 wonder if blurry vision should just change to be more like ru's -scroll 14:04:39 though i guess stairs are bad enough in that way 14:04:47 Pleasingfungus: slow consumables would mean you can't safely use them up close, and hop would allow you to get space to use them potentially 14:04:49 with different/rarer trigger conditions or something 14:04:58 MarvinPA: I'd be fine with that 14:05:10 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:14 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:19 idk 14:05:33 Pleasingfungus: fair, I'm just pitching anyway 14:05:43 i'll put it on the list 14:05:50 for proper brainstorming, i shouldn't be filtering at all at this stage 14:05:57 Speaking of stairs, I like the plan from Hellcrawl to stop stair climbs when the player takes damage 14:06:14 reminds me of vault wardens 14:06:16 people loved those 14:06:22 back when they could lock stairs you were climbing 14:06:24 I love vault wardens. 14:06:26 except this would be everywhere, forever 14:06:26 oof 14:06:27 haha 14:06:41 well, vault wardens have to be in LOS, most monsters would have to be at melee range 14:06:48 no 14:07:02 how long does stair-climbing take these days... 14:07:02 We'd probably have to try harder to prevent monsters from spawning right next to stairs if we did that 14:07:09 ??stairs 14:07:09 stairs[1/9]: Taking the stairs has two parts. The 'leaving' is implemented as a 'delay' - it can be interrupted. It lasts 1.0 turns. The 'entering' lasts 0.75 turns (if you've never been here before) or 1.5 turns (if you have) and is simply waited out on the other side. Haste/slow will change these durations. 14:07:13 IIRC 10 aut on-floor, 5 aut on next floor 14:07:31 yeah, quite a lot of monsters would be able to swing at you from even a tile away, even pretending that ranged monsters don't exist 14:07:32 oh, 10/15? 14:07:34 dang 14:07:39 it used to be shorter 14:07:45 mpa ruined it when he buffed something else, iirc 14:07:53 (<3 mpa) 14:08:01 Pleasingfungus: sure, but I'm okay with those monsters being scary. You could also limit the effect to monsters actually hitting you in melee while you climb. 14:08:25 If we felt ranged/spells were unfair 14:08:40 mm 14:08:43 it wasn't my commit but yeah 14:08:44 %git a75ee9761a89626fe171cf83823357b1ab0daba3 14:08:44 07Emily02 {MarvinPA} * 0.19-a0-1142-ga75ee97: Remove the EV penalty for taking stairs 10(8 months ago, 3 files, 3+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a75ee9761a89 14:08:57 it said "remove", so i assumed! 14:09:06 a safe bet! 14:09:10 :P 14:09:18 idk. would be a huge change, for sure 14:09:22 the damage interrupting stairs thing 14:09:28 yes, definitely 14:09:36 could wait until hellcrawl implements it and see how it plays there 14:09:39 slothful approach 14:09:46 hellcrawl already has it 14:09:51 o 14:09:57 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:57 I've got a character going on it right now] 14:10:09 weird to describe it as "the plan from hellcrawl" 14:10:32 imo hellcrawl is a great proving ground for big ideas 14:10:57 hellcrawl players enjoy suffering, so there's no harm in dumping bad mechanics on em anyway 14:11:23 hm, obsaxe should probably have a *Mesm inscription 14:12:31 unless the suffering is called food 14:12:33 oh since there was discussion about blurry vision earlier 14:12:38 I have a a very good blurry vision death to report 14:12:44 looks like hop already respects mesm, but the targeter doesn't correctly display that 14:12:51 https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/SaltCity/morgue-SaltCity-20170214-221303.txt 14:12:52 only shows up when you hit enter to confirm the target 14:12:54 courtesy of demise 14:12:57 SaltCity, huh 14:13:13 ??blurry vision 14:13:13 blurry vision[1/1]: When reading a scroll, there is a delay of 0.5/1/2 turns before the scroll takes effect. 14:13:24 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:13:28 hey, the game warned him three times! 14:13:48 !learn add blurry_vision Really read with blurry vision while enemies are nearby? The dream sheep shake their wool and sparkle. You feel drowsy... You fall asleep. The two-headed hydra bites you!! Ouch! That really hurt! You die... 14:13:48 blurry vision[2/2]: Really read with blurry vision while enemies are nearby? The dream sheep shake their wool and sparkle. You feel drowsy... You fall asleep. The two-headed hydra bites you!! Ouch! That really hurt! You die... 14:14:34 iirc it was a full health kill by the hydra 14:14:46 excellent emergent player death 14:14:52 it was not 14:14:59 dream sheep doing what they do best 14:15:03 The two-headed hydra bites you!! You wake up. The two-headed hydra bites you! 14:15:07 immediately before that in the log 14:15:37 ah, half health then 14:15:41 still very good 14:16:34 the best part is that demise goaded the hydra instead of walking away 14:16:45 https://youtu.be/USwj6v2_v-k?t=1794 14:17:01 Brannock: got any further plans for scarves in the near future? 14:17:21 oh this isn't lair 14:17:22 one or two new egos, maybe an unrand 14:17:38 lol 14:17:40 lol 14:17:41 he played too fast and fucked up 14:17:50 bad player 14:17:54 Lasty_, thoughts on ?recharge working on evokers? we had a discussion earlier about it 14:18:11 if he'd read ?blink earlier, he wouldn't have been in LOS of those sheep 14:18:13 but he didn't 14:18:15 so he dide 14:18:17 *died 14:20:20 apparently reddit thinks that ilsuiw is the toughest monster in shoals 14:20:26 I saw that comment 14:20:28 it was amusing 14:21:13 another person posited that shops explain differences in players' ability to survive lair branches 14:21:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:51 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:02 it might be nice if swamp was a little harder 14:25:08 and if swamp worms weren't bad and broken 14:25:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:31 add shops to swamp, but sometimes the shops are really shop worms 14:26:39 -!- PKrockin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:48 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:35:20 I have some ideas for buffing swamp monsters!! 14:39:36 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:32 sorry, i already like gammafunk's idea more 14:40:45 it's settled. pushing now 14:47:03 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:10 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:55:38 could some of the rC scarves be rC++? 14:55:46 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:56:07 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:13 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:24 -!- mobydollar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:28 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 15:03:05 Brannock: you mean elemental evokers? 15:03:25 Brannock: I have no strong feelings. ?recharging is weaker now than it's ever been, but it's still pretty strong 15:03:33 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/compare/recharge 15:03:38 yeah,the elemental evokers 15:03:54 rumflump: some of them are rc+ rf+. does that count? 15:06:39 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:25 Brannock: I've got a few ideas I'd like to push on you: 1) remove jewellery versions of every scarf ego; 2) move rF+ to scarves and remove rings of rF+; 3) add a static ego to scarves that sometimes deals lightning damage to a random monster in LOS when you hurt a monster; 15:07:44 haha, that static ego idea is cute 15:08:02 4) unrands: The Lightning Spire, a scarf-slot item that periodically shoots lightning at random targets (but cannot hurt you) and makes a ton of noise; Gozag's White Collar: 10% chance to take damage from gold instead of HP, some big penalty on unequip 15:08:26 adding to todo 15:09:08 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:23 (re: the lightning spire, the description should make it clear that it's basically a lightning spire that you strap to your back) 15:09:27 that static ego encourages dragging high-hp low-damage monsters around with you instead of killing them, so that when you run into something scary you can get a shot or two at it 15:09:56 or even just trivial monsters in general. go back to d:1 to find a goblin 15:10:31 amalloy: since the effect targets a random monster, it might well just shoot the monster you hit; since the effect isn't guaranteed, you may get no benefit from it. I think this falls into the realm of "things people could do that might feel helpful but aren't" 15:10:34 could be a single-target discharge, ala shock serpents, rather than a full piercing bolt 15:10:40 I mean, you can drag a newt with you all game to block centaur arrows 15:10:46 also, what lasty said 15:12:01 could just constrain distance so there's less chance of getting a free shot at something across the screen, too 15:12:05 within 3 tiles, maybe 15:12:22 again, like shock serpents! scarf of the shock serpent 15:12:30 shockingly serpentine scarf 15:13:07 except that their effect is on-hit retaliation, so maybe not my name after all 15:13:10 sad 15:15:25 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 15:16:07 I'm perfectly okay with moving rC and rF onto scarves with one major concern 15:16:19 scarves are rather rare 15:17:02 though I guess rC/rF isn't exactly uncommon on non-jewelry 15:17:02 shock serpent-scale scarf 15:17:05 Dropping spirit shield from amulets... 15:17:17 Amulet choice needs a bit of help if that'll happen 15:17:34 Brannock: I like the idea of making rC+/rF+ somewhat more rare. It's pretty common right now. 15:18:33 Other scribble ideas I had for scarves: Temporary boost to EV when struck, Unbreathing & Cloud Immunity, MR+++ while hexed 15:18:34 all artefacts + two types of rings + shields + body armor + sometimes cloaks/boots/gloves (ice cave/volcano) can have them 15:19:00 Brannock: I like all of those except MR+++ while hexed. That's not gonna do much. 15:19:29 Unbreathing + cloud immunity will be weak, but I think people will like it 15:19:31 -!- orbisvicis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:19:39 ??clouds 15:19:40 clouds[1/7]: Flame, freezing vapour, mephitic ({mephitic cloud}; AKA noxious fumes or stinking), poison, black/grey/purple/blue smoke, steam, foul pestilence ({miasma}), mist (swamp water), and occasionally bugginess. Of these, the smokes and mist are harmless, and they plus steam can block LOS as per {scroll of fog}. Also, there's the {book of clouds}. 15:19:48 ??book of clouds 15:19:48 book of clouds[1/1]: Mephitic Cloud, Conjure Flame, Poisonous Cloud, Freezing Cloud, Ring of Flames 15:19:53 rip 15:20:05 Ring of Flames already doesn't damage yourself, so it's really just Freezing Cloud that it interacts with 15:20:20 imo you have to be able to list what unbreathing actually does without looking it up before adding it to anything 15:20:23