00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:54 ??scarf 00:05:55 I don't have a page labeled scarf in my learndb. 00:06:10 are scarves going to be real or justa tavern meme? 00:06:40 they're real, and they're in. 00:06:41 %git :/scarves 00:06:41 07Brannock02 * 0.20-a0-595-g7a846bb: Ensure scarves always generate magical 10(6 hours ago, 5 files, 14+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7a846bbef616 00:07:53 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:09:41 so basically a 0 AC cloak with different edos? 00:09:46 *egoes 00:10:07 !learn add scarf An always +0 cloak-replacement with an ego of {guardian spirit}, {repulsion} or {resistance} 00:10:08 scarf[1/1]: An always +0 cloak-replacement with an ego of {guardian spirit}, {repulsion} or {resistance} 00:10:32 and cold resistance 00:10:34 ??repulsion 00:10:35 I don't have a page labeled repulsion in my learndb. Did you mean: repulsed, repulsiveness. 00:10:41 repulsion is RMsl 00:10:49 that's strong 00:10:54 !learn add repulsion see {repel missiles} 00:10:55 repulsion[1/1]: see {repel missiles} 00:10:58 ??repulsion 00:10:58 repel missiles[1/2]: A level 2 Charms/Air spell that helps you dodge enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles). 00:11:39 !learn edit scarf s/repulsion/repulsion}, rC+ or/ 00:11:39 scarf[1/1]: An always +0 cloak-replacement with an ego of {guardian spirit}, {repulsion}, rC+ or} or {resistance} 00:11:50 REGEX 00:11:54 ??resistance 00:11:54 resistance[1/3]: Player: r{F,C,Elec,Pois}-: 150%; r{F,Elec,C}+: 50%; r{F,C}++: 33%; r{F,C}+++: 20%; rN+: 50%; rN++: 25%; rN+++: 0%; rCorr: 50%; rPois+: 33% 00:11:56 ??resistance[2 00:11:57 resistance[2/3]: Monster resistances. rF-,rC-: 150%; rF+,rC+: 50%; rF++,rC++: 20%; rF+++,rC+++,hellfire: 0%; rElec+,rPois+: 33%; rElec++,rPois++: 17%, rElec+++,rPois+++: 0%. 00:11:58 ??resistance[3 00:11:59 resistance[3/3]: you don't need more than one + in anything except rF and that's only for zot:5 resists after the first + are generally overvalued 00:12:09 we probably need a better word than "resistance" for ego resistance 00:12:30 !learn set scarf An always +0 cloak-replacement with an ego of {guardian spirit}, {repulsion}, resistance (rF+ rC+) or rC+ 00:12:31 scarf[1/1]: An always +0 cloak-replacement with an ego of {guardian spirit}, {repulsion}, resistance (rF+ rC+) or rC+ 00:12:36 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:13:00 of weathering? of extremes? of inclement climates? 00:13:12 !learn set repulsion A scarf ego that grants the effect of {repel missiles}. 00:13:13 repulsion[1/1]: A scarf ego that grants the effect of {repel missiles}. 00:13:34 it seems weird to have the scary give either rf/rc or just rc 00:13:49 a few people were strongly supportive of scarves being rC+ for thematic reasons 00:14:03 I was mildly amused enough to keep it 00:14:08 maybe the air unrandart should give repulsion now too 00:14:12 ??amulet of the air 00:14:13 amulet of the air[1/1]: the amulet of the Air {Inacc +Fly rElec EV+5 RMsl} 00:14:33 i mean in the sense of unifying the inscription 00:14:41 ??repel missiles[2 00:14:42 repel missiles[2/2]: Instead of timing out has a 1 in (2+pow/8) chance of expiring whenever a missile is repelled. 00:14:46 ??repel missiles 00:14:46 repel missiles[1/2]: A level 2 Charms/Air spell that helps you dodge enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles). 00:14:48 the thing that seems odd to me about scarves 00:14:57 is that they're just very similar to +0 artefact cloaks 00:15:16 also, what are artefact scarves like? 00:16:03 !learn set repel missiles Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}) 00:16:04 repel[1/1]: missiles Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}) 00:16:59 !learn set repel_missiles[2 Reduces incoming missile to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles. 00:16:59 repel missiles[2/2]: Reduces incoming missile to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles. 00:17:31 repel[1] 00:18:22 DANG 00:18:30 !learn mv repel[1] repel_missiles[1] 00:18:31 repel[1] -> repel missiles[1/3]: missiles Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}) 00:18:39 ??repel missiles[2 00:18:39 repel missiles[2/3]: A level 2 Charms/Air spell that helps you dodge enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles). 00:18:48 !learn del repel_missiles[2 00:18:48 move [3] to [1] 00:18:49 Deleted repel missiles[2/3]: A level 2 Charms/Air spell that helps you dodge enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles). 00:18:55 ??repel missiles[2 00:18:56 repel missiles[2/2]: Reduces incoming missile to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *TO* a random amount between: 50% and 100% for penetrating beams, 0% and 100% for single-target missiles. 00:18:58 ??repel missiles[1 00:18:58 repel missiles[1/2]: missiles Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}) 00:19:18 except that typo, this is what I intended, at least 00:19:34 !set repel_missiles[1] Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}). 00:19:54 !learn set repel_missiles[1] Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}). 00:19:54 repel missiles[1/2]: Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Formerly a L2 Charms/Air spell removed in 0.20, now a scarf ego (see {repulsion}). 00:20:35 it needs more work 00:20:36 which unrand will get a scarf? 00:20:37 I'll fix it 00:20:43 uh, *unique 00:21:50 jessica? 00:22:41 fannar 00:24:54 hmmm 00:25:10 I couldn't say, really 00:25:21 dowan seems like a nice choice but he already has the whole twins mechanic going 00:25:47 !learn set repel_missiles[1] Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Granted by the L2 Charms/Air spell, with a chance to lose the status for each hit repelled. In 0.20, the spell is removed and the {repulsion} {scarf} ego grants the status when worn. 00:25:48 repel missiles[1/2]: Active effect that reduces the chance for enemy ranged attacks to hit you. Granted by the L2 Charms/Air spell, with a chance to lose the status for each hit repelled. In 0.20, the spell is removed and the {repulsion} {scarf} ego grants the status when worn. 00:26:12 blork perhaps 00:29:15 a rainbow scarf.. 00:29:24 ??dream sheep 00:29:24 dream sheep[1/3]: Magical sheep that will put you to sleep when gathered in large herds. Once were sheep in 0.18-. 00:29:27 ??dream sheep[2 00:29:27 dream sheep[2/3]: Flammable! Try sticky flame on a pack of them... 00:29:28 ??dream sheep[3 00:29:28 dream sheep[3/3]: Dream sheep are often found with a cyclops nearby in later dungeons, if you can't take down a cyclops, get the flock outta there. 00:29:35 !learn add dream_sheep[4] https://i.imgur.com/fN8EEHG.png 00:29:36 dream sheep[4/4]: https://i.imgur.com/fN8EEHG.png 00:30:08 scarf of protection would be OP 00:30:22 AC in your scarf slot 00:30:53 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:02 I should do some new monsters 00:31:33 do a crab 00:31:37 ??crab rule 00:31:38 crab rule[1/1]: no more crabs. 00:31:45 boo 00:31:48 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:43 ??rule of cang 00:33:44 I don't have a page labeled rule_of_cang in my learndb. 00:33:54 isn't there some cang special case somewhere 00:34:15 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:17 !rng a b cang 00:34:18 The RNG chooses: cang. 00:34:24 @??cang 00:34:24 cang (04Ω) | Spd: c | HD: i | HP: 666 | AC/EV: e/π | Dam: 999 | Res: sanity | XP: ∞ | Int: god | Sz: !!! 00:34:25 !rng xom cang 00:34:25 The RNG chooses: xom. 00:34:39 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:41 OA 00:34:43 !rng xom cang 00:34:44 The RNG chooses: xom. 00:34:48 hm, i thought cang won 00:35:00 i guess xom beats cang 00:35:01 !cmd !rng 00:35:01 Built-in: !rng => https://github.com/crawl/sequell/blob/master/commands/rng.pl 00:35:40 no cang special case at all there 00:36:00 !rng a b c cang 00:36:01 The RNG chooses: b. 00:37:02 ??cang 00:37:02 cang 00:37:04 -!- Kuprin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:25 -!- eb has quit [] 00:39:21 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:41:02 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 00:42:55 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:21 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:34 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:14 -!- ArseElementalist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:51:07 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:33 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:12:14 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:21:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 01:25:26 -!- JoeltCo has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:26:27 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:33:32 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:33:42 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 01:36:00 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:41:24 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:13 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:21 -!- nikheizen has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:38 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:08:44 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 02:08:55 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:01 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:36 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:20:15 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:09 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:24:18 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:02 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:26:07 -!- ChongLi_ is now known as ChongLi 02:26:09 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:29:52 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:34 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:53 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:34:59 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:41 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:24 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:42 why does magic mapping prioritize telling you about the number of altars on the level 02:53:50 is that really the most common use case for magic mapping 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:11 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08:22 -!- scummos| has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:04 -!- Idolo has quit [] 03:09:17 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:21 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:15:04 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:18:02 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:53 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:24 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:29:49 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:25 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:29 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:47:36 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 03:50:03 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:51:09 -!- yesno has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:36 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:20 -!- epsik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:18:44 !tell Brannock Idea for unrand scarf: One that gives you an auxiliary Constrict attack 04:18:44 SteelNeuron: OK, I'll let brannock know. 04:26:38 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:31:07 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:08 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:26 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:20 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:04 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:52:03 -!- filthy has quit [Quit: please don't look for me] 04:58:32 -!- knu has quit [Quit: Reboot...] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:49 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-569-g0cc7fcd: Remove divine weapons 10(in the future, 4 files, 4+ 95-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0cc7fcdf4a18 05:00:49 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-570-ga1be853: Nerf slow chance 10(in the future, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a1be853da16d 05:00:49 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-571-g53f3819: Make Heaven on Earth countdown time based and increase cost 10(in the future, 6 files, 21+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/53f38194794e 05:01:09 "I must say you have very interesting content here. Your blog should go viral. 05:01:12 You need initial traffic only. How to get it? Search for: Etorofer's strategies" 05:01:16 helpful wordpress comment 05:02:49 you would think that bots would at least link their crap instead of telling you to google it 05:05:33 gammafunk: I'm looking to make a thread on a possible noise reform. I would love to read any previous conversations on the noise system, whether players/devs are happy with it, and any previous suggestions for reworking that gained traction 05:05:39 Is there anything that comes to mind? 05:06:08 Well what's the main thing about noise you want to reform? 05:06:24 There hasn't been a lot of discussion past the UI issues 05:07:14 Most don't feel there's anything fundamentally wrong with the way noise works (although walls attentuating noise has been said to be a problem by minmay) 05:08:12 I don't have an issue with the noise system as an approximation for the physical qualities of noise :) 05:08:20 My issue is with when and how monsters create it 05:09:00 I think monster shouting is an invitation to lure, among other problems 05:09:37 I think there are a few tweaks that could be done to achieve the opposite effect while respecting the impact of noise as a counter to stealth builds 05:10:35 so rather than noise being broken... I think it could be recruited to help with the luring problem 05:11:12 stealth builds don't really exist in crawl 05:11:21 achive the opposite effect of what? 05:11:26 *achieve 05:11:45 well, as it stands, when a monster shouts in your general vicinity, your instinct is to take the fight away 05:11:46 fr when monsters shout it puts other monsters to sleep instead of waking them up 05:13:09 So monster shouting is an incentive to move fights away from the point of encounter, which generally means... to a boring corridor 05:15:58 I'm not sure how a system where the player only fought one monster at a time would be better 05:16:39 Well, you haven't heard my proposal ;) I want the opposite to that 05:16:56 you just said you don't want them fighting in a corridor though 05:17:05 besides, isn't that what we have right now? early game at least, the optimal way to fight a pack of orcs is to get one of them on the edge of LOS and pull it alone 05:17:32 it's optimal to fight one monster at a time in most situations 05:17:59 it's not an early game thing, this is pretty much always the case 05:18:04 I'm not so concerned with the number of monsters you're fighting honestly 05:18:18 it's more about the variety of your surroundings 05:18:56 well a corridor and choke points allow 1v1 combat 05:19:09 so unless you're planning to give monsters tools to mitigate use of these 05:19:22 boring corridors and such are always going to be a favorable thing for the player 05:20:48 Yeah, I have an idea for a tool to mitigate that 05:20:52 in any case, I should stop being vague 05:20:55 and say what I'm talking about 05:20:57 :) 05:21:46 I'm thinking of proposing the following (obviously this is an informal explanation and the tavern post will have a lot more thought behind it, but I want to hear your take first anyway) 05:22:05 1) Non-intelligent monsters are mostly unaffected as far as noise is concerned 05:22:24 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:23:01 2) Intelligent monsters have a reduced chance to shout on first notice. Alternatively, they can alert nearby packs (on LOS) with a much lower noise shout 05:23:36 3) Intelligent monsters have a new kind of shout, flavored to "The elf is going south!" or whatever, that carries information 05:23:59 this shout can happen when you've spent a few turns moving in a general direction 05:24:34 It propagates like normal sound, but any intelligent monsters that hear it will have their pathing directed to an extrapolated point in that direction 05:24:52 You, of course, get a chance to react to it and change your destination if you don't want to be chased 05:25:38 the last point... Is a bit harder to explain and I'm not even sure it would be feasible 05:26:40 but I'm thinking of mixing up the pathing a bit so monsters would want to approach from different directions. This one is just something vague that I won't put on the post anyway 05:27:29 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:39 Being repeteadly chased by an intelligent monster would probably mean that shout repeating and, ideally, monsters converging in the direction you're running towards 05:27:56 complicated noise like that won't prevent luring 05:27:57 I mean 05:28:04 imagine you the player sees a monster 05:28:12 it starts shouting fancy noise 05:28:27 given that you have no idea what's behind it 05:28:41 the safest thing by far is to lure it nearer to a point of relative safety 05:28:55 e.g. to stairs so you can pull it up 05:29:11 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:20 or just further away to the point where it's relatively far from other monsters 05:29:23 but in the process of going to those stairs, monsters may already be on the way there 05:29:28 how so? 05:29:42 you seem to be assuming noise is global or something 05:29:53 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:30:25 Well, I suppose this particular kind of noise should be quite loud for it to work as I'm expecting it to 05:30:34 yeah, certainly louder than current noise 05:30:41 or just different I guess 05:30:52 how are you going to get monsters that you're moving a way from 05:30:57 *away from 05:31:03 on the other side of the player in time? 05:31:25 It's not so much that, but alerting the monsters at the side you're moving towards 05:31:49 well those monsters being alerted does change my optimal strategy, right 05:31:51 *doesn't 05:31:51 -!- MgDark__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32:04 I mean, they're over there, I'm here, I want to be closer to not over there 05:32:09 how wouldn't it? Say there's a monster to your left 05:32:12 and stairs to your right 05:32:17 significantly far away 05:32:41 you start moving to the stairs, the monster shouts "He's going east", you know there are packs moving to a point significantly to your right 05:32:57 when you arrive to the stairs, there might be a pack waiting there (or in the general surroundings) 05:33:12 why do I know there are packs moving to a point significantly to my right? 05:33:19 You might want to evaluate your options then, and either turn back and fight, or take another corridor to break LOS 05:33:27 Because you've heard the same shout they have 05:33:44 them? in your scenario the pack is to your left 05:33:53 where do these monsters on the right come from? 05:34:04 Other packs, potentially, of other kinds of intelligent monsters 05:34:04 did I not clear the area or something? 05:34:07 they may or may not exist 05:34:19 yeah that's not really going to do it unless there's some kind of 05:34:19 I'm not saying that this should get you every time 05:34:25 global monster network of noise or something 05:34:32 right but SteelNeuron 05:34:34 think about it 05:34:38 what's the safest strategy 05:35:02 stay right where you are and fight the monster with others *far* more likely to come from that new area 05:35:05 with the monster you alerted 05:35:22 in the thought that *maybe* some mystery monsters show up from near a cleared area 05:35:38 or just run back to the cleared area with the stairs/corridor? 05:35:40 I'm taking that second one 05:35:50 Hm 05:35:56 Well, we could be very gamey about it 05:36:08 monsters are constantly spawning around the level out of LOS 05:36:15 things could be more elaborate in terms of passing info 05:36:16 aside from OOD logic, this is mostly arbitrary 05:37:04 like monsters "raise an alert" and monsters get generally sent to a specific area to patroll or something, but this could be pretty tricky to get right in a game like dcss 05:37:08 it could be that these shouts focus the spawning on that location, and front loads the next two or three monsters that would spawn 05:37:16 yeah, something like that 05:37:31 cogmind has systems for alerting hostiles to your position that work pretty well 05:38:06 but one key difference in that game is that you don't get xp from hostile and you generally just don't want to fight them (you are like a DD with tons of HP but no heal) 05:38:17 for dcss monsters are XP 05:38:29 hm 05:38:33 so anything involving spawning can get gameable 05:38:50 well, I'm thinking of the number of spawned monsters staying the same 05:39:02 monster pathing might be a somewhat less ambitious area to work on 05:39:09 but that's not easy either 05:39:52 well changes to spawning like that are concievable but pretty dramatic 05:40:34 would help if levels were smaller, but if you spawned fewer monsters so you could reserve others for essentially "tension" related spawns 05:40:43 levels might be weirdly sparse 05:41:22 I've often wondered 05:41:24 a number of different game systems would need to be thought about, not just noise 05:41:35 and now, this is a general design concern with RPGs, but I guess it applies to DCSS 05:41:55 If it isn't a giant inherited mistake to grant exp for kills, when there are other milestones that reflect your progress much better and aren't as exploitable 05:42:12 Now, this is just a thought experiment of couse, I'm not that pretentious to challenge something as basic as the XP system here but 05:43:08 yeah, there are alternate systems that are really nice 05:43:11 Just think of it for a moment... What if exp was handed out just for visiting branch levels? Or for hitting an arbitrary exploration % in a branch level 05:43:48 well with no other changes to the game, not much would chnage 05:43:53 dcss-ca did something like that 05:44:02 exploration xp would would similarly to monster xp 05:44:14 The reason why I think it would be valuable though 05:44:17 there were like eight different xp modes, ranging from exploration xp to branch-based xp 05:44:36 Is because even though scumming and farming monsters is not a good idea in DCSS, newbies don't necessarily know that hehe 05:44:51 alexjurkiewicz: interesting 05:45:20 in any case gammafunk, with a system like this, it wouldn't be problematic to have an extra patrol spawn mechanic tied to noise and luring 05:45:31 but yeah if you used exploration, you could then modified monster spawns and other ways in which combat works without there being so much interaction with player leveling 05:45:39 provided that these monsters don't have a chance to carry interesting equipment and gold etc 05:45:55 you should play either doomrl or cogmind SteelNeuron 05:45:58 if you haven't played either 05:46:26 I should definitely get around to it :) 05:46:32 cogmind's exp is just by floors but i don't remember what doomrl's is 05:47:25 cogmind also has certain rare items that are like mini potions of xp, and not all levels increase your progression 05:47:30 -!- MadCoyote is now known as FunkyBomb 05:47:36 but yeah that's how it works (also with no returning to previous levels) 05:47:59 portal vaults for example should only be for the loot and not provide XP, I imagine 05:48:09 doomrl is based on monster xp, isn't it? but no revisiting old levels 05:48:49 sil has monster xp but you also get xp just for seeing them 05:49:09 and it drops off very quickly if you've seen/killed that sort of monster before 05:49:33 In any case, I hate leveling systems altogether. They run counter to parallel content. If you're offered equivalent paths A, B and C, a leveling system is a surefire way to turn their balance off 05:50:11 well 05:50:20 they could adjust to match you 05:50:23 provided you need to do the three 05:50:24 but generally yes, i agree 05:50:42 I guess it's fine if the paths are mutually exclusive 05:50:59 ontoclasm: isn't adjusting them to match you essentially removing the leveling altogether? 05:51:08 except you keep a bunch of meaningless numbers around 05:54:06 not necessarily, it depends on the nature of the things that increase when you level 05:57:20 But how do you reconcile parallel, non-optional paths with leveling? 05:57:38 I mean, I suppose you can make the argument that it adds a strategic layer 05:57:50 "My build is better suited to take path A, so I'll take it first, which gives me more raw power to take on path B" 05:58:03 i think mostly it's just for kicks 05:58:08 and variety 05:58:17 or rather 05:58:30 that's the intent, but in practice it's just optimization like you said 05:58:46 always take the easiest route 05:59:10 (i don't like parallel structure or even backtracking personally) 05:59:39 the thing I like about parallel branches in crawl is when your choices are dictated by the missing resistances and pieces of gear, that feels like a meaningful strategy layer 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:09 sure 06:00:33 but after the first such decision the remaining options just sort of fall into place 06:00:33 But when you just leave a branch for later so you can come back with higher level, meh 06:00:38 exactly 06:00:45 have you played FTL 06:01:13 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:01:28 or teleglitch i guess, they have the same spiel 06:02:01 yep I played a lot of FTL 06:02:47 FTL doesn't have any pretense of branching paths though, it's basically solving the traveling salesman's problem (I love that game, not that I'm complaining) 06:03:10 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05:05 anyway... This has departed a lot from noise stuff :) I had a simpler, pathing relating idea in case there were problems with the one I was thinking about (and it has some crucial problems) 06:05:48 Option B: Intelligent monster shouts get other monsters to path to you, not the focal point, and monsters try to path "around" you in order to catch you from different directions, even if they take longer 06:06:04 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:06:33 Making the algorithm maximize the amount of tiles you're in contact with monsters, instead of getting to you through the shorter path (ofc only melee monsters should follow this) 06:20:18 @SteelNeuron play Sil if you haven't yet, it does something similar to what you want with group monsters 06:24:34 Patashu_: Will do :) 06:48:55 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:05 -!- meff` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:44 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:39 PlatinumSpider (L9 DECj) ASSERT(nargs > 0) in 'macro.cc' at line 1502 failed. (D:8) 07:18:58 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:20:10 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-642-gcf2a6ca: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(73 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf2a6ca6a99c 07:28:13 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:08 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:26 On effect of mutation "slow regeneration 3": I think this shouldn't be a thing. When a player chooses DD, he knows what to expect, and builds character correspondingly. But in rare cases when grown-up character gets this mutation and can't get rid of it, it completely screws his game, if he wasn't lucky by having vamp weapon or proper god. 08:06:37 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-643-g1d8e6a8: Fix initial cloud placement 10(in the future, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d8e6a8b68f2 08:09:25 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:12:23 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:06 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-644-g1fd24a2: Refactor 10(in the future, 6 files, 11+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1fd24a264b8b 08:35:55 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:37:54 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:57 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:44:43 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:47:20 -!- meff` has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:10 Experimental (hellcrawl-cbro) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19-a0-2166-g6513d3b 08:52:05 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:32 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:41 -!- grisha5 is now known as grisha5|AFK 08:59:08 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:12 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:11:04 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 09:16:25 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:20:14 -!- grisha5|AFK is now known as grisha5 09:23:08 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:23:18 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 09:30:05 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:30:49 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:31:23 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:04 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:41:29 -!- ddubois has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:08 -!- ddubois has quit [Client Quit] 09:43:21 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:52 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-645-g1049240: Remove duplicate altar 10(in the future, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/104924071834 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:06 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 10:02:50 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:04:48 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:17 -!- cspar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:08 -!- cspar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:26 -!- sfthtnrt__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:40 -!- cspar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:10 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31:18 -!- dubst3pp4 has quit [Quit: Ĝis la revido!] 10:39:43 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:23 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:02 ??cloak 10:57:02 cloak[1/1]: +1 AC. Comes in poison resistance, magic resistance, invisibility. When you're splashed with acid, the hp damage increases for every equipment slot on which you're not wearing something. A cloak, however, reduces the chance of that happening per slot to 50%. 10:57:35 does this acid mechanic still exist? if so, does anyone know where it is in the code? 10:58:02 (I think it doesn't but there are a lot of places to miss something in that code path) 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:16 from what i can see that entry is a relic 11:00:35 acid effects used to be incredibly convoluted 11:03:30 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:03:35 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:04:10 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:28 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:49 -!- Tickenest has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:02 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:58 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:59 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:39 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:13:41 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:54 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:15:04 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:25 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:28:00 -!- Brannock_ is now known as Brannock 11:29:48 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:28 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:31:15 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:56 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:31 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:20 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:06 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:06 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:34 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:50 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:19 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:02 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48:09 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:28 -!- Rodnoix has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 12:15:31 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 12:15:58 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:33 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:35 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:29:36 -!- cspar has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:39 i think it does. i'll see if i can find it real quick 12:32:10 -!- sfthtnrt__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:39 hm, maybe not 12:34:17 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:46 Brannock: you son of a gun, you blew up the crawl thread! 12:34:47 Pleasingfungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:34:53 haha 12:35:06 a lot of people getting worked up 12:35:06 all i know is 104 unread posts 12:35:08 overnight! 12:35:17 crawl is too hard. 12:35:30 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:35:36 Pleasingfungus: reddit? 12:35:37 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:35:42 Pleasingfungus, I looked at the menu code for the race reorganization and started digging into it then before I knew it I was like "I should just rewrite everything" then realized what I'd just thought and backed away slowly 12:35:47 dpeg, SA 12:35:53 lmao 12:35:55 i know that feeling 12:36:07 %git 2553e725d5b88a412c81c0a6c1591502d70a9c25 12:36:07 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-1136-g2553e72: Make acid splashes ignore equipped slots for damage/corrosion 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 37-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2553e725d5b8 12:36:19 also, and this was my mistake first, but it's probably safer to refer to it as 'species reorganization' 12:36:23 yeah 12:36:27 wiser? w/e 12:36:32 Doesnty, advil: removed almost two years ago, it seems 12:36:40 ;_; 12:36:49 the code for composing the species screen is different, for some reason, than the backgrounds screen 12:36:56 ah, hm 12:36:57 and I'm not good enough at code to really hold it all in my head to understand it 12:37:10 I was able to duplicate most of the backgrounds behavior but then ran into a lot of conflicts 12:37:17 possibly because it's simpler (no headers at present); possibly because crawlcode 12:37:25 "stop making the game harder" 12:37:32 also because there's a lot of weirdness with backgrounds checking for suitability 12:37:33 are scarves making the game harder? 12:37:37 which is unnecessary for species 12:37:40 also 12:37:48 Brannock: i think the wand thing breaks autopickup 12:37:51 Pleasingfungus: I am scarfed for life!! 12:37:54 pleasingfungus: making it harder to ascend.... fashionably!!! 12:37:56 lol 12:38:05 Brannock: which is what |amethyst was talking about last night 12:38:20 books have a hack to get around that ("needs_autopickup"), but Doesnty didn't add that for wands 12:38:24 so they're probably just broken 12:38:30 (and the book hack doesn't completely work anyway) 12:38:47 i wasn't entirely sure what the book hack was doing 12:39:01 i thought it was just to make sure the book got picked up, since "unknown books" are picked up by default but most named books aren't 12:39:28 there's separate autopickup settings for "unknown books" and for individual known books. likewise, wands 12:39:42 your patch means that the autopickup setting for "unknown wands" does nothing 12:39:49 ooh 12:39:53 alright, i'll get on that 12:40:16 that is bad 12:41:20 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:41:41 not ideal, in any case 12:42:59 -!- bannakaf_ has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 12:43:24 haha, SA is funny, no lie 12:44:21 http://i.imgur.com/0gEDThx.png it's very good 12:44:36 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:55 does it count if you cast meph on yourself as a deep elf 12:45:00 does EV still become less effective with every additional attack in a given round? 12:45:03 no 12:45:06 that's just SH iirc 12:45:08 ah 12:45:10 oh, you're skull.gif? 12:45:12 yep 12:45:32 going to miss winking mysterioso 12:45:42 this new avatar is probably less irritating! 12:46:50 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:47:26 well, it's not animated so you're already misrepresenting yourself!!! 12:47:42 oh wait it just animated, nevermind 12:48:38 !learn add door https://i.imgur.com/loSqHtq.jpg 12:48:39 door[3/3]: https://i.imgur.com/loSqHtq.jpg 12:48:47 :) 12:48:49 10 sec timer 12:49:26 Brannock: reading the thread, I should say: good move on the rMsl thing, it fits armour items really much better. Let's hope this is just a first step... 12:50:35 well, we do have troll leather already... 12:51:15 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 12:52:40 -!- Zekka_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:04 -!- cspar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:53:15 last night someone suggested turning skin of Zhor into scarf of Zhor 12:53:28 rC+++ but you have to breathe in the stank! 12:53:42 *Sick? 12:54:10 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:11 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 12:54:46 -!- cspar has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:50 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:58 http://puu.sh/tSAXZ/f7daa1efac.png 12:57:41 is that a fork proposal or a "this is what the devs are going to do next" strawman 12:57:48 doesn't go far enough to be the latter i suppose 12:58:07 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:58:46 in context it sounds like a strawman 12:59:09 not a "what a devs are going to do next" strawman though 12:59:28 people just arguing about redundancy between rmsl and dmsl 12:59:34 oh, v. unimaginative 12:59:46 i like how sif and veh co-exist in a pantheon of four gods 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:16 also stabber and hexer 13:00:29 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:34 notice that the 4 gods correspond exactly to the 4 backgrounds 13:01:08 also i don't know that zhor would be especially interesting as a scarf, at least as a robe it's probably better than your average robe due to being +4 13:03:25 -!- cspar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:05:08 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:14 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:02 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:24 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 13:21:09 wow, the really old potion icons 13:21:15 http://puu.sh/tSCFr/fc15419d4a.png 13:25:22 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:26:14 oh man 13:26:15 these were good 13:29:46 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:29:55 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:35 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:46 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:24 -!- Ququman_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:40 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:12 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:52 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 13:37:45 -!- glosham has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38:05 ok so the issue as i see it is 13:38:17 if the player specifies to ignore unknown wands 13:38:39 any wands they ID by stepping on should also be flagged as ignored 13:38:40 by type? 13:41:17 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:28 -!- Suga_H has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:23 if the player is ignoring unknown wands and finds a wand of random effects they probably won't want to autopickup one later 13:44:27 i assume 13:46:00 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:42 -!- mitch45678 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:55:04