00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:56 wisps are also pretty annoying currently, wonder if they could be made less about "haha try to even hit me" and more about "hey I'm actually dangerous" 00:01:11 that might be a monster to look at 00:01:28 adding that to todo 00:02:29 !lg * current swamp s=cikiller% 00:02:30 1283 games for * (current swamp): 191x a hydra (14.89%), 145x a thorn hunter (11.30%), 116x a spriggan druid (9.04%), 107x the Lernaean hydra (8.34%), 73x a shambling mangrove (5.69%), 62x a spriggan rider (4.83%), 53x an alligator (4.13%), 51x Nikola (3.98%), 37x a ghost crab (2.88%), 36x (2.81%), 35x a swamp dragon (2.73%), 24x a tyrant leech (1.87%), 23x a swamp worm (1.79%), 18x a bog body (1.... 00:02:35 it's always hydra.... 00:02:45 lol nikola 00:02:54 oh man, I was going to think up some stuff with st elmo's fire and other creepy swamp gases 00:02:59 but then you brought up that query involving ghost crabs 00:03:10 a wheals original 00:03:14 they began in crypt 00:03:18 not a great location for them 00:03:52 !lg * current shoals s=cikiller% 00:03:53 1269 games for * (current shoals): 133x a water nymph (10.48%), 125x a merfolk impaler (9.85%), 100x a merfolk (7.88%), 93x a merfolk javelineer (7.33%), 81x a merfolk aquamancer (6.38%), 72x a satyr (5.67%), 65x an alligator snapping turtle (5.12%), 61x a kraken (4.81%), 53x a snapping turtle (4.18%), 46x Polyphemus (3.62%), 38x a sea snake (2.99%), 35x a harpy (2.76%), 33x a merfolk avatar (2.60... 00:04:14 good ol watermsite 00:04:25 a pretty nice spread too 00:04:54 swamp has hydras, thorn hunters, druids, then runs into a unique 00:05:24 there's a pretty big drop from druids to mangroves 00:05:40 there's a shitload of hydra in swamp, so yeah 00:05:42 whereas for shoals it's more smooth 00:05:53 this could be from lowish sampling 00:06:02 !lg * recent swamp s=cikiller% 00:06:03 4730 games for * (recent swamp): 652x a hydra (13.78%), 532x a thorn hunter (11.25%), 436x a spriggan druid (9.22%), 417x the Lernaean hydra (8.82%), 232x a spriggan rider (4.90%), 221x a shambling mangrove (4.67%), 201x an alligator (4.25%), 188x (3.97%), 164x Nikola (3.47%), 153x a swamp dragon (3.23%), 106x a ghost crab (2.24%), 86x a bog body (1.82%), 68x a hydra simulacrum (1.44%), 67x a play... 00:06:16 haha, nikola 00:06:26 where's jorgrun... 00:06:40 !lg * recent ikiller~~jorgrun 00:06:41 223. therebi the Executioner (L26 FoFi of Okawaru), blasted by Jorgrun (Shatter) on Vaults:4 on 2016-12-23 03:04:21, with 494230 points after 42471 turns and 2:01:19. 00:06:45 !killratio jorgrun * swamp 00:06:47 <|amethyst> !lg * recent cikiller=jorgrun x=br 00:06:48 223. [br=Vaults] therebi the Executioner (L26 FoFi of Okawaru), blasted by Jorgrun (Shatter) on Vaults:4 on 2016-12-23 03:04:21, with 494230 points after 42471 turns and 2:01:19. 00:06:53 <|amethyst> !lg * recent cikiller=jorgrun s=br 00:06:54 223 games for * (recent cikiller=jorgrun): 62x Swamp, 48x Spider, 37x Snake, 26x Shoals, 24x Vaults, 12x Elf, 11x Depths, 2x Crypt, D 00:06:59 <|amethyst> !lg * recent cikiller=nikola s=br 00:07:00 564 games for * (recent cikiller=nikola): 164x Swamp, 100x Snake, 100x Shoals, 95x Spider, 48x Elf, 36x Vaults, 15x Depths, 5x Lair, Orc 00:07:09 100 and 100! 00:07:18 nikola is rigging the stats 00:07:20 jorgrun wins 3.231% of battles against * (swamp). 00:07:27 I guess it's the slow movement in water that makes Swamp so much deadlier 00:07:28 hey, 3% is decent 00:07:36 <|amethyst> I guess Swamp is highest becase people go there first 00:07:40 yes 00:08:18 yeah you'd probably want to look at this with a bit of further filtering, but there is a meta as well to consider 00:08:24 "swamp is easier" is definitely part of that 00:10:04 "DCSS is on its way out of being a roguelike and going to become just some weird fantasy chess that plays itself." 00:10:48 I don't understand how players get this impression, given that nearly every single removal in the past year or so has been focused on making choices more meaningful 00:10:53 Like I can understand being upset about removals 00:11:01 But how in the world is Crawl becoming more automated? 00:11:32 <|amethyst> !lg qw recent / won 00:11:33 88/6126 games for qw (recent): N=88/6126 (1.44%) 00:11:46 lol 00:11:46 <|amethyst> !lg qw current / won 00:11:46 5/591 games for qw (current): N=5/591 (0.85%) 00:11:53 that was in the same sequence of comments that claimed we're going to lose '90% of [our] player base' 00:12:04 the playerbase that's increased every version I guess 00:12:05 <|amethyst> hey, than means 90% less whining! 00:12:10 :) 00:13:02 <|amethyst> hm, looks like swamp still is the least dangerous, though not by a huge amount 00:13:11 <|amethyst> according to highly sophisticated !lm queries 00:13:22 I feel like swamp is missing one more monster to really round out the monster set 00:13:41 maybe spriggan druids need a new ability or something 00:14:14 when I play the other branches I'm like "oh yeah this has everything" and then I play Swamp and it's like "okay I solved the three monsters in this, ez" 00:14:18 exaggeratin 00:15:23 fr: Alligators get "Thrash" that randomly displaces you within 2 tiles of your location 00:15:45 come on, if they're going to thrash they need a distortion guitar 00:15:55 <|amethyst> gammafunk: btw, did you recently say "remove flight & centaurs" 00:16:01 yeah someone quoted that 00:16:06 I couldn't remember ever seeing something like that 00:16:12 <|amethyst> I was wondering where 00:16:13 |amethyst: that was someone taking a discord chat snippet out of context 00:16:16 <|amethyst> because it's not in the logs here 00:16:19 <|amethyst> ah, discord 00:16:21 yeah, not in dev 00:16:39 I did post proof in that that reddit comment though 00:16:55 that kyzrati is going to remove flight! 00:17:46 <|amethyst> btw, someone noticed a badlearndb recently 00:17:52 <|amethyst> ??lesser servant of makhleb[2] 00:17:52 lesser servant[2/2]: The check for hostility looks like this: 1d(20+(your_invocations*3)) > 4. If this is false, the demon will be hostile. The same check applies to {greater servant}. 00:17:57 <|amethyst> ??greater servant of makhleb 00:17:57 greater servant[1/1]: Summons a temporary executioner, green death, blizzard demon, balrug, or cacodemon. Hostility chance is reduced (but never to 0) by invocations skill. Hostile if 1d(20 + Invocations * 3) <= 4 (e.g. 1/5 at 0 skill, 1/11 at 8 skill, 1/17 at 16 skill). 00:18:02 yeah, saw that as well 00:18:11 but didn't know the new formula 00:18:27 <|amethyst> ??invocations 00:18:27 invocations[1/3]: Used by TSO, Beogh, Cheibriados, Dithmenos, Elyvilon, Fedhas, Lugonu, Makhleb, Nemelex Xobeh, Okawaru, Qazlal, Sif Muna, Yredelemnul, Zin. Not used by Ashenzari, Gozag, Jiyva, Kikubaaqudgha, Ru, Trog, Vehumet, Xom. 00:18:29 <|amethyst> ??invocations[2 00:18:29 invocations[2/3]: Jiyva, Trog, and Ashenzari base invoked powers on your piety, Gozag on your gold, Kikubaaqudgha on your Necromancy, Nemelex and Pakellas on your evocations. Xom is Xom. 00:18:30 <|amethyst> ??invocations[3 00:18:30 invocations[3/3]: its confusing, because irl god lets you train invocations skill but it doesn't do anything 00:18:37 <|amethyst> ?/fail 00:18:38 Matching terms (4): fail, failure, failure_rate, spell_failure; entries (53): -mag[1] | abyss[3] | acid[1] | af[1] | amalloy_todo[10] | apportation[3] | badcode[3] | beneficial_mutation[2] | blowgun[1] | boots_of_the_assassin[2] | bow_of_chaos[1] | brain_storm[1] | chaos_brand[4] | confused[1] | crystal_ball_of_energy[1] | degeneration_card[2] | dgl_documentation[1] | disc_of_storms[2] | dithmenos... 00:18:44 <|amethyst> ??failure rate 00:18:44 success rate[1/2]: Spell success rates are coloured according to miscast severity. Grey means less than 0.1% chance of a severity 2+ miscast, yellow means < 0.5%, light red < 2.5%, dark red >= 2.5%. 00:18:47 <|amethyst> ??failure rate[2 00:18:47 chain mail[2/2]: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/BigStickPopham/morgue-BigStickPopham-20150502-154057.txt http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Newgrounder/morgue-Newgrounder-20141001-213251.txt 00:18:49 <|amethyst> bah 00:19:20 good minmay quote 00:20:02 <|amethyst> anyway, it's something like 40 - 5*skill - piety/20 00:20:15 Brannock: on thing that PF has talked about a lot, which is at least partially true, is how it's nice when branches have a mechanical theme 00:20:26 <|amethyst> and 90 - 2*skill - piety/5 for greater servant 00:20:45 so for branch monsters, it's good to dwell on what's the current branch mechanic 00:21:29 <|amethyst> "water"? 00:21:32 Reaching, poison/paralysis, rooting, might-on-death, amphibious, blinking, lifedrain, constriction... 00:21:33 shoals has water with monsters that are both fast in it and have reach, or simply projectiles 00:21:44 Shoals' primary mechanic, imho, is "displacement" 00:21:55 Wind drakes, aquamancers, sirens, avatars 00:22:03 and defensively shoals monsters are not too high hp, but higher evasion 00:22:03 And the general tidal mechanic that forces you to move around 00:22:13 Also prevalence of nets 00:22:29 As well as manticore barbing 00:22:36 I guess "movement restriction" is a better term than displacement 00:22:52 Oh, add "mephitic" to the Swamp mechanics list 00:22:53 I kind of mean more in simpler, higher-level sense, rather than listing specific ones 00:23:04 I'm listing specifics to try to suss out if any jump out at me 00:23:50 faster monsters get to you quickly in shoals, getting an attack advantage with reach (the remainder use outright projectile/spell attacks) 00:24:01 and yeah you have limited movement conditioned on your flight ability 00:24:34 in swamp hydra are like this, just sans reach and having a kind of special damage 00:24:45 and alligators are like this as well 00:25:10 <|amethyst> hydra as the big threat in Swamp seems a little weird 00:25:16 it's because there's so many of them. 00:25:17 <|amethyst> because they're also common in Lair 00:25:19 it is kind of odd, yeah 00:25:32 and they're even meaner when you're stumbling around in water 00:25:34 <|amethyst> so by the time you get to Swamp you've dealt with plenty of hydras 00:25:43 hydra just become scarier in water and the other monsters aren't terribly effective 00:25:45 <|amethyst> the water does help make them somewhat different 00:25:51 I think alligators need help though 00:25:53 also worth noting 00:25:54 swiftness isn't enough 00:25:57 @??thorn hunter 00:25:57 thorn hunter (00f) | Spd: 12 (swim: 120%) | HD: 15 | HP: 83-115 | AC/EV: 9/9 | Dam: 27, 23 | 03plant, amphibious, see invisible, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(100), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 2121 | Sp: v.thorns (3d18) [11!AM, 06!sil], w.brambles [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 00:26:02 <|amethyst> Brannock: maybe if they came with a bunch of babies? 00:26:10 also fast in water, so it's similar, and they have a ranged attack 00:26:29 brambles is a thing but it's mostly them getting to you and pouring out a lot of damage 00:26:41 them being innately speed 12 helps this 00:26:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: err? 00:26:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I think that means they're slower in water 00:27:12 @??hydra 00:27:12 hydra (09D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 60-83 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 975 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 00:27:12 oh sorry, right so normal in water, right 00:27:12 <|amethyst> swim at speed 10 effectively 00:27:24 yeah, but their action speed for shooting is 12 00:27:46 so it is a bit weird with them in terms of movement, but again they have a strong ranged attack 00:27:49 <|amethyst> alligators are weird 00:27:55 <|amethyst> @??alligator 00:27:55 alligator (12t) | Spd: 10 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 12 | HP: 60-84 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Dam: 30, 15 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 896 | Sp: sprint [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 00:28:07 there's not too much connecting swamp monsters together in terms of design, it's really quite a menagerie 00:28:27 <|amethyst> ??monstrous menagerie 00:28:27 monstrous menagerie[1/1]: L7 summoning spell (L6 in 0.17-) which summons either a manticore, lindwurm, harpy (multiples at higher power), or a sphinx (much rarer except at high power). 00:28:34 <|amethyst> seems more shoals-y 00:28:39 like there's variation in shoals monster's designs but there's kind of a common base with shoals/snake/spider that there isn't with swamp 00:28:42 I think after I finish my work on postgame then I'll take a look at swamp 00:28:47 and see if I can't massage something unifying out of it 00:29:17 iirc someone is working on swamp worms right now? 00:29:22 not sure 00:29:35 ??plan 00:29:35 plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans 00:29:39 they got a major redesign with losing submergin 00:29:42 g 00:29:53 ah, reverse trample 00:30:19 hrm, well swamp dragons trample you 00:30:33 well if swamp worms get reverse trample then I think thrashing alligators is okay, and Swamp becomes the branch of "pull/push you into the water" 00:30:34 so yeah, perhaps more player-repositioning in general could help give some connection, 00:30:54 whereas Shoals is "stop you from freely moving", Swamp is "actively toss you around" 00:31:14 but I guess octopode crushers were removed for player-tossing not being ideal? 00:31:14 <|amethyst> but avatars and wind drakes, as you pointed out 00:31:33 some overlap is probably okay 00:31:33 player tossing as it was implemented was bad, yeah 00:31:36 <|amethyst> Brannock: I think part of it is that octopode crushers usually threw you to safety 00:31:45 player pulling (like beckoning) is a bit less bad 00:31:54 but still has a repetitive aspect to it 00:31:55 adding these notes to todo 00:32:01 <|amethyst> move wind drakes from shoals to swamp 00:32:09 I wouldn't be against that 00:32:12 they're kind of weird in shoals 00:32:21 feels arbitrarily placed 00:32:24 <|amethyst> not Greek enough 00:32:25 the issue that made player throwing so bad was that you wanted to kill something with this, it threw you, then you got to move in to melee, then it threw you... 00:32:38 with monsters that can beckon you, it's escape that gets taxed in this way 00:32:47 my thrashing for alligator would keep you adjacent to the alligator 00:32:49 which is less onerous 00:32:56 what would it do? 00:33:00 <|amethyst> what about a monster that grabs you and jumps with you 00:33:11 <|amethyst> Spriggan Piledriver 00:33:18 spriggan zangief? 00:33:58 pull you into the water, if already in water then do extra damage and reposition you into another water tile. I haven't really thought it through yet as it's Christmas Eve and I'm drinking some delicious wine I got as a gift 00:34:17 but I've identified alligator as a potential for improvement 00:34:19 Maybe it'll be another mechanic 00:34:20 |amethyst: jumps with could work I guess, but the issue is in part constant repositioning; maybe if it has a cooldown 00:34:54 Brannock: yeah water strike kind of covers that "do extra damage over water" thing 00:34:58 ah, good point 00:35:26 pulling into water alone could be ok, but there's going to be a kind of dance you'll keep doing 00:35:34 move out of water, pulled back in, move out of water, ... 00:35:41 I think at some point players will realize "Just fight it there" 00:35:50 also makes !flight (more) valuable in Swamp 00:35:54 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:36:04 I use flight all the time in Swamp to help cure positioning issues in Swamp, but I doubt other players do 00:36:07 yeah, flight is somewhat limited, and they probably can't use this to fight literally every alligator 00:36:15 and fighting in water is outright dangerous 00:36:32 I'm not sure, there might be a workable idea 00:36:41 Brannock: do you remember old (Forest) water nymphs 00:36:46 I'll do a seance and commune with Grunt's soul 00:36:50 vaguely 00:36:53 that was kind of an extreme version 00:36:55 I only played Forest once before it was removed 00:37:01 just straight pulled you all the way to the nearest water 00:37:04 oh yeah 00:37:04 plopped you in 00:37:05 I remember now 00:37:16 it was very disorienting the first time that happened to me 00:37:18 <|amethyst> melaleuca trees 00:37:21 But then I adjusted once I realized what it was doing 00:37:30 I kind of liked it, but it was weird 00:37:30 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:33 <|amethyst> they regrow shortly after a forest fire 00:37:37 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:37:37 dangit, dropping more botany terms 00:37:43 I only just got ok with sporulate 00:38:02 oh that's it, forest fires 00:38:06 -!- Zxpr1jk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:10 heh, that's hard to make work 00:38:13 one of my very favorite experiences ever was going kayaking in some swamp in southern Florida. It *probably* wasn't the Everglades, but it was extremely watery and had a ton of beautiful scenery 00:38:27 Just the sheer *amount* of green everywhere 00:38:57 yeah I've never been properly kayaking, just messing around in a bay near berkeley 00:39:23 I imagine it's pretty relaxing/fun if you go on a nice trip 00:39:28 that isn't into rapids or something 00:39:44 also, fr: river rapids branch 00:39:56 screw this water trample crap, lets really go push the player around 00:40:03 lol 00:40:13 also a minecart-rail branch 00:40:22 god, I just briefly considered as a joke porting DF water to Crawl 00:40:27 then I shuddered 00:41:27 <|amethyst> bah, DF water isn't simulationist enough 00:41:42 <|amethyst> I mean, it teleports around 00:41:50 remove food and replace it with a morale clock 00:41:52 <|amethyst> need to actually model the fluid dynamics 00:41:52 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:56 player has to regularly stand near waterfalls and admire it 00:42:01 navier-stokes? 00:42:16 <|amethyst> Shoals, Swamp, Stokes 00:42:44 Stokes unique, does multivariate calculus to open a dimensional portal 00:42:44 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:04 Also seeing 'simulationist' made me think of the phrase "young earth simulationist" for some reason 00:43:23 I'm sure someone in CS/geology has made that joke 00:43:25 <|amethyst> Brannock: I had a fort where some dwarves got a sleeping sickness from forgotten beast dust 00:43:39 merry christmas Lasty 00:44:00 <|amethyst> Brannock: one of them wandered onto and fell asleep on a trap and was cut into bits 00:44:05 <|amethyst> Brannock: but 00:44:08 Is Santa bringing us ranged reform? Were we a good dev team? 00:44:27 <|amethyst> Brannock: it was an *adamantine spinning blade trap* 00:44:41 <|amethyst> Brannock: so the witnesses were not upset at all 00:44:43 haha 00:45:05 "it works! beautifully!" 00:45:12 "that adamantine is *soo* efficient!" 00:45:46 so we could have an adamantine blade that prevents Horr if you worship Ru 00:45:53 and have that sacrifice 00:56:02 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:18 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:40 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:17 gammafunk: yes, i just finished the traditional jewish christmas eve chinese dinner tonight! well, i guess technically that's the jewish christian celebration, not the hannukah celebration... but they're the same time this year, so let's split the difference. 01:09:17 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:11:00 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: that has always been weird to me... do people really think Chinese restaurants keep the pork away from everything else? 01:11:20 i'm fairly certain that the really observant jews do not practice this ritual. 01:11:25 not that i know any. 01:11:36 <|amethyst> I suppose that's likely 01:12:12 I just realized I haven't had Hanukkah gelt for years 01:12:20 I loved unwrapping theset hings 01:12:33 they're very good. 01:15:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:16:35 -!- Shard1697_ is now known as Shard1697 01:17:41 <|amethyst> over here we're celebrating atheist kids get presents day 01:17:45 <|amethyst> but no kids, so it's cheap 01:17:56 i imagine. 01:18:04 I got a gift card for Culver's in tonight's gift exchange. It was very German 01:18:16 Someone stole my cheese-and-salami sampler from me in the exchange 01:22:57 you could go into wizard mode in DCSS and eat a beef jerky 01:23:03 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 01:23:03 that's kind of like eating salami 01:23:04 haha 01:23:07 I eat plenty of jerky as is 01:23:18 <|amethyst> and royal jelly is kind of like cheese 01:23:19 <|amethyst> bee cheese 01:23:24 I wish this city was big enough that we had Christmas markets. We follow nearly every other German tradition other than that 01:23:29 comfort food 01:23:32 maybe when I get a job in an actual city 01:24:22 hot tip: venison jerky is actually very good 01:24:27 cheap, too, since deer are so plentiful 01:24:35 what I really like, though, is venison chili 01:24:54 the gaminess accompanies nearly perfectly the spiciness and the savoriness of the meat/beans 01:34:41 when I was a child, a friend's dad made deer jerky a lot, but I don't know that I've had it since then 01:37:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:41:14 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:06 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:58 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:55 -!- purge has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:03:56 eating PF, how grotesque 02:04:36 sadly not many good chinese restaurants around here 02:09:46 tomorrow is christmas event #4 for me 02:19:53 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:15 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:19 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 02:52:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:47 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:05:22 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:27 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:23:54 Experimental (councilgod-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-546-gea1e955 03:41:56 -!- concrocotta has quit [Quit: Ciao] 03:42:14 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:42:35 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:47:13 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:50:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:47 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:26 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:26:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:27:34 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 04:27:47 -!- arcanemastermind has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:13 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:18 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:31:43 -!- Furril has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:56 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:45:14 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 04:47:26 -!- Ragnor has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:49:52 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:52:48 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 04:57:20 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:58:53 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 05:00:05 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:51 -!- Rast has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:02:44 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:08:56 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:09 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:14 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:44:12 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:49:07 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:54:07 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:38 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:01:05 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:44 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:14:54 !messages 06:14:54 No messages for SteelNeuron. 06:16:15 -!- Tiltorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:16:17 -!- Tiltorax_ is now known as Tiltorax 06:16:26 -!- dondy1 is now known as dondy 06:22:24 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-547-gbd547dd: Fully remove buggy ability 10(in the future, 4 files, 0+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bd547dd96c8b 06:22:24 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-548-gad3071d: Remove spoilery interaction with inscriptions 10(in the future, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ad3071deef06 06:36:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:53 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:41 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 06:48:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:50:05 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:53:28 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:59:04 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:59 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:37 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:34:51 -!- Tiltorax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:54 -!- dondy has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:02 uhhm, are there any notes on building crawl on OpenBSD? the version in ports is (0.18) and 07:44:12 kinda broken 07:51:11 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:30 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:59 the build of trunk (non-tiles) fails because g++(GCC 4.2.1) doesn't recognize -std=c++11, is that really a necessary option? 08:11:55 i believe so 08:12:08 ??install 08:12:08 install[1/1]: See the following for installation and compilation: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt 08:12:14 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:12:14 "The only officially supported compilers are gcc (4.7 or newer) and clang (3.4 or newer)." 08:15:08 quick question 08:15:11 just tried around a bit, and it does quite seem so :< 08:15:19 how come unseen areas on console are dark blue instead of dark grey 08:16:32 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:22:03 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:26:31 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:29 !greatplayer 08:32:36 Unwon species for Tiltorax: Demigod, Felid, Formicid, Ghoul, Human, Kobold, Octopode, Tengu, Vine Stalker 08:32:40 oops wrong chat. 08:32:52 that makefile is pretty hard to read :< 08:32:53 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:47:07 can somebody point me to where the GCC / GXX variables are set "later" for a OpenBSD target? 08:48:09 i tried using FORCE_CC but that fails a little later (gcc v4.9.4) 08:53:44 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:03 what are you trying to do? 08:56:23 ovveride the default cc? 08:56:25 alexjurkiewicz: building crawl trunk on openbsd 08:56:33 yah D: 08:58:04 i think just set CC=g++-4.9 or whatever 08:59:18 or maybe CXX or GCC or GXX 08:59:18 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:44 same thing as FORCE_CC, it seems to fall back to g++ later, which doesn't know -std=c++11 09:03:08 ah, i think it's because of rltiles/Makefile :s 09:15:31 where and why does it execute or set "cc1plus"? 09:16:09 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:16:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:16:50 grep doesn't find anything :s 09:16:52 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:47 ok, i give up, that build system is too smart for me :/ 09:22:57 -!- dondy has left ##crawl-dev 09:42:22 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:31 Killer's weapon identified as felid 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10862 by damerell 09:59:43 aww, that bug isn't as exciting as I thought it was by the title 10:00:02 "You were slain by a gnoll wielding a +2 felid" 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:32 quick question 10:04:43 quick answer 10:04:43 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:05:06 how do I make it so that on console out of LOS tiles (i.e. walls and ground) are dark grey instead of dark blue 10:05:24 there was a conversation about that a few days ago in the dev logs 10:05:33 I didn't pay attention to it, as I am not a console player. 10:06:34 16:35:25 <|amethyst> Go to settings, select the Window -> Colours tab, then in the scroll menu you can find ANSI blue; select that and click Modify 10:06:39 if you're using putty, Lightli 10:06:53 16:35:53 <|amethyst> you'll probably want to save your settings (under session, click once on "Default Settings" then Save 10:06:53 16:36:23 <|amethyst> while you're at it, also make sure you have selected "Indicate bolded text by changing" -> The colour 10:06:58 thanks 10:07:54 this seems to not be an uncommon request, I wonder if the default should be changed again for that? 10:19:00 what was the commit that changed it anyways 10:24:33 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:39 !messages 10:24:39 No messages for SteelNeuron. 10:31:19 %git curse 10:31:19 Could not find commit curse (git returned 128) 10:31:57 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git&a=search&h=HEAD&st=commit&s=curses lightli 10:32:01 happened over multiple commits 10:34:45 <|amethyst> what you need is the setting bold_brightens_foreground = true 10:34:58 <|amethyst> also that stuff in Putty, but I believe those are the defaults now 10:35:22 <|amethyst> %gif ffe185b4 10:35:26 <|amethyst> %git ffe185b4 10:35:26 07johnny002 * 0.19-a0-1739-gffe185b: Allow control over curses color rendering assumptions. 10(3 months ago, 6 files, 581+ 114-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ffe185b45b88 10:35:38 <|amethyst> that wasn't the only one, but it's relevant 10:35:53 I don't recall what the reason was for the change 10:35:59 there was something about terminal compatibility 10:36:02 Is it posible to play the frog race online already? 10:36:10 SteelNeuron, soon I hope! 10:36:15 PF still has to adjust a couple things 10:36:17 Cool :) 10:36:28 I really want to give that one a go 10:36:30 I'm very excited for it 10:36:53 <|amethyst> Brannock: because some people have terminals where the settings default to showing "bold black" as bold black rather than as darkgrey 10:37:02 <|amethyst> Brannock: making it invisible on a black background 10:37:06 Ah yeah, I remember now 10:38:28 <|amethyst> Implementation of MD and HE in 11 lines of Lua: https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5k8gme/ 10:38:44 lol 10:38:58 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Changing host] 10:38:58 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:42 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:31 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:31 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:32 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:49 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:26 Brannock: i guess my main frog concern right now is about ranged characters. the hop seems reasonably fun as an escape tool, from playtesting, but using it to kite might be annoying 11:20:29 going to start a test run now 11:22:31 Pleasingfungus: are you planning on having it cause exhaust? 11:22:37 no. 11:22:47 that didn't work out 11:22:55 Too similar to Ru leap? 11:23:27 there were a couple of issues, including 'hypothetically optimal' travel techniques. 11:23:32 hopping your way across the dungeon... 11:23:44 though tbf, i wonder why no one objects to that with ru? 11:24:20 search the logs for 'exhaust', there was a lot of talk about it a couple of days ago. 11:24:27 'kay 11:29:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:06 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:42 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:43 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:22 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:52:16 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:41 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:57:21 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:41 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:18 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:02:04 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:23 hop is definitely a lot more powerful than slow movement 1 (as expected!) 12:07:47 mp exists, so it doesn't feel like there's that much incentive to hop-kite, at least early on; you're gonna run out of mp first most of the time! 12:08:03 ah, that's with a cj. ranged weapons might be more annoying 12:08:07 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:22 but probably no worse than existing fast movement characters. i'm sure lasty's ranged reform will fix all of that, anyway 12:08:24 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 12:09:02 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 12:10:51 also, this run has a d:7 temple with 21 altars, so i'm sure if i was gammafunk i'd have quit it already. 12:10:55 TERRIBLE turncount! 12:11:52 -!- Nattefrost1 is now known as Nattefrost 12:15:30 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:15:42 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:06 Pleasingfungus: Is kiting supposed to be the strong point of the race? 12:16:14 not really, no. 12:16:40 that's a niche that's well filled already :) 12:16:53 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:20:16 as long as you get to lair/orc by ~2.5k it's fine 12:20:42 take any longer and Sapher shows up and makes disapproving smileys 12:24:08 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:25:12 http://i.imgur.com/8eGymZf.png 12:25:32 lair also running a little late. 12:27:25 You had Makhleb. You were a Frog. ...how could you fail? 12:28:52 -!- robotcentaur has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:30:09 wait, where is this chat? 12:30:35 oh he only talks to speedrunners like me 12:30:49 heh, thinking Sapher would talk to you 12:30:52 that's rich, man 12:30:58 hmmmmmm..... 12:31:05 and who said anything about makh? 12:31:14 well that's what he had to assume 12:32:28 if this species ever goes anywhere, it's going to be another chei magnet 12:32:54 Pleasingfungus: actually, chei (the player) was commenting how the low stats thing is pretty awful in practice if you try to do much more than melee 12:33:07 heh 12:33:07 which I agree with. Are you attached to that? 12:33:07 it seemed to be going fine as a cj 12:33:09 tbh 12:33:34 there is the xp apt and flat apts, what's the diff in starting int? 12:33:40 my summoner also felt pretty good, though that was with 6/8/6 stats... doubt the 2 int made that much of a difference 12:33:41 like two? 12:33:43 yeah 12:34:04 summoners are not int intensive, but you do feel that as much as other mages at the begginning 12:34:14 but yeah maybe it won't be too bad 12:34:21 %git frogs~3 12:34:21 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-350-ga83eecc: De-duplicate duplication messages 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a83eecc95f2c 12:34:26 hrm 12:34:28 %git frogs 12:34:28 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-353-g63bd08e: Replace Hop exhaustion with -Hop status 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 21+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/63bd08ec0508 12:34:31 %git frogs~4 12:34:31 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-349-g200756e: Visually mark awakened trees in tiles 10(3 days ago, 6 files, 14+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/200756e5dd54 12:34:36 %git frogs~2 12:34:36 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-351-ge6dfa78: New race: Frogs* 10(3 days ago, 7 files, 75+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6dfa7886a9f 12:35:14 i think ghouls' problem isn't just their overall low stats, it's that all of their stats are in str 12:35:24 !source species-data.h 12:35:24 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/species-data.h 12:35:31 11/3/4 12:36:16 Pleasingfungus: well it's cumulative 12:36:26 I mean how much int are you getting, for instance, from sid/5 12:36:34 one point something 12:36:59 1.7, i guess 12:37:24 I think it's the combo of gh apts and lower starting int that makes mages pretty painful, not just the starting int 12:37:24 1.666... 12:37:26 the /3 level ups are gonna dominate 12:37:36 Tiltorax: yeah, but that takes longer to type 12:37:49 I mean, if you made them i/5 that would be a huge diff 12:38:05 but sid/5 is not going to be too different from s/5 for purposes of spellpower 12:38:28 but yeah Fr have flatter apts, not Gh apts, which will help 12:38:29 !apt gh 12:38:30 Gh: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: -1, Polearms: -1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: -1, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 2, Shields: -1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -2, Conj: -2, Hexes: -2, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: 0, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -1, Fire: -2, Ice: 1, Air: -2, Earth: 1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: -1, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: -1* 12:38:49 their apts aren't even all that bad, but -2 conj and -2 sc 12:39:15 agreed re sid/5 and s/5 12:40:26 I'm going to do a thing 12:41:40 ! 12:41:45 are you sure 12:42:03 Pleasingfungus: cheibro also suggested a bit more stealth, since slow 12:42:10 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:42:16 we do have a number of stealthy species tho 12:42:17 !apt stealth 12:42:18 Stealth: Sp: 5!, Na: 5!, Vp: 5!, Fe: 4, Ko: 4, Op: 4, DD: 3, VS: 3, Fo: 3, DE: 3, Gh: 2, Gr: 2, Ha: 2, Mf: 2, Te: 1, Hu: 1, Ds: 0, Dr: 0, Dg: 0, HE: N/A, Mi: -1, HO: -1, Mu: -1, Og: -2, Ce: -4, Tr: -5* 12:42:26 -!- Tiltorax has left ##crawl-dev 12:42:26 -!- Tiltorax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:35 and +1 is already some of that 12:42:44 he might not have even looked at the current number 12:44:08 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 12:44:30 i felt like we had plenty of stealth already, but it's not something i feel insanely strongly about 12:44:33 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:39 not strongly at all.... 12:44:47 ??frogs 12:44:47 I don't have a page labeled frogs in my learndb. Did you mean: fog, trog. 12:44:54 !learn add frogs Fr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 0, Stealth: 1, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 1, Nec: -1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 1, HP: 0, MP: 0 12:44:55 frogs[1/1]: Fr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 0, Stealth: 1, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 1, Nec: -1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 1, HP: 0, MP: 0 12:45:25 !learn add frogs Possible new species, see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6dfa7886a9f and the frogs branch 12:45:26 frogs[2/2]: Possible new species, see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6dfa7886a9f and the frogs branch 12:45:32 !learn mv frogs[2] frogs[1] 12:45:32 frogs[2] -> frogs[1/2]: Possible new species, see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6dfa7886a9f and the frogs branch 12:45:35 ??frogs[2 12:45:36 frogs[2/2]: Fr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 0, Stealth: 1, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 1, Nec: -1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 1, HP: 0, MP: 0 12:46:08 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:31 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:31 !apt mr 12:47:31 MR: Sp: 7!, DD: 6, Dr[purple]: 6, Fe: 6, Mu: 5, Na: 5, VS: 5, Dg: 4, DE: 4, Fo: 4, HE: 4, Og: 4, Vp: 4, Ce: 3*, Dr: 3*, Ds: 3*, Gh: 3*, Gr: 3*, Ha: 3*, HO: 3*, Hu: 3*, Ko: 3*, Mi: 3*, Mf: 3*, Og: 3*, Op: 3*, Te: 3*, Tr: 3* 12:48:34 froggos 12:48:36 !learn edit frogs[2] s|$| MR: 3* Stats: 6/6/6 sid/5 12:48:36 frogs[2/2]: Fr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 0, Stealth: 1, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 1, Nec: -1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 1, HP: 0, MP: 0 MR: 3* Stats: 6/6/6 sid/5 12:48:51 probably shoudl say base status but w/e 12:49:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:50:14 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:29 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:05 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:20 wow, the dynast dunk 12:52:22 "My snail proposal was better than this... *cries* 12:52:24 " 12:53:50 what was his snail proposal 12:54:08 I only very vaguely recall 12:54:19 I'm going to guess that retracting into your shell was involved 12:54:19 was it better than this 12:54:21 haha 12:54:23 man 12:54:25 remember agate snails 12:54:29 oh I do 12:54:52 only 0.9 kids remember this 12:54:52 snapping turtle retracting into shell is not all that long ago itself 12:55:41 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:41 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:47 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:03 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:01:27 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:45 !lg * current trunk xl>5 D lvl>=7 lvl<=12 !boring s=cikiller% 13:02:36 got sloppy on lair:6 and died. race feels strong 13:02:50