00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:13 -!- wheals_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:56 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:13 you guys have unleashed a wave of Toxic Salt onto the SA DCSS thread 00:09:20 i hope you're happy with yourselves... 00:09:42 (probably doesn't help that the guy who posted the commits described them as "High Elf and Ogre Removal") 00:11:16 oh goodie 00:13:52 aw man, it's not really top tier salt 00:14:07 I guess top tier salt is not really an SA thing 00:14:52 the long rants really only come from Tavern, and apparently occasionally on Reddit 00:15:18 wonder how many epic dcss rants on more obscure places there are that we may have missed 00:15:39 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:15:48 pf: demise asking when the trunk update post is coming 00:15:55 so he can make his video 00:15:59 the salt is real... 00:16:04 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 00:16:55 I think one was just made a few days ago 00:17:29 oh guess it's close to two weeks now 00:17:30 no, the last one was nov 30 00:17:36 nothing's happened since then, tho 00:17:53 %git 627bfb6be1b578c0e86b18b274bba3b06319742d 00:17:53 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-253-g627bfb6: Changelog updates through 0.20-a0-252-gcc89fee 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 45+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/627bfb6be1b5 00:17:55 %git 00:17:55 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-296-gf222164: Adjust manual entry for Trolls 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 10+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f222164434f6 00:18:02 pf: the removals... 00:18:02 fewer than 50 commits 00:18:11 oh, no one cares about those. 00:18:13 you need more than just that for an update 00:18:30 Brannock: helps prevent going the wrong way a few times (like accidental v5 or z5 before you wanted) 00:18:31 sadly i'm retired, otherwise i'd cook something up 00:18:47 what if CanOfWorms dreamed up an epic new sif muna altar tile 00:18:56 gammafunk: I'm working on it... right now!!! 00:18:58 sort of 00:19:00 that would be amazing and PF would make a special upda...dang 00:19:06 I'll stop shitposting then 00:19:19 i'll believe it when i see it 00:19:21 are you actually retiring or something 00:19:37 http://i.imgur.com/zUiCWDG.gif 00:19:42 sif muna: channel soup 00:19:55 the one on the right, I mean 00:20:09 frothy... 00:20:21 it's cool, looks kind of a like a snowcone 00:20:47 delicious blueberry flavor 00:20:49 there's also of course, the classic "floating ball of mana that looks less like a ball of water because it's glowing" 00:20:51 I'm playing snowball fights in an online shooter right now, because it's too friggin cold outside to play real snowball. how far we've come with entertainment technology 00:21:26 brannock: https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/thumb/d/d9/Yard_Work_Simulator.png/250px-Yard_Work_Simulator.png 00:24:46 -!- haltingproblem has quit [Quit: haltingproblem] 00:26:08 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:20 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:17 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:17 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:47 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 00:31:33 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-296-gf222164 (34) 00:36:19 nice zig farming http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#watch-Aer1al 00:36:26 Lasty: woo! 00:48:09 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 00:49:17 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=22505 00:49:19 it begins... 00:50:32 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:40 should xom polymorph plants? 00:52:42 I think probably not 00:53:33 you mean firewoord? 00:53:35 *firewood 00:54:37 minmay mentioned it in a thread a few weeks ago 00:54:49 I'll look into this after my round 00:55:10 hmm, why don't ogres have 0 for lbl and axes? 00:55:27 or rather, why is their lbl/axes apt != polearm/staff apt 00:55:40 enhancer staves 00:56:08 shouldn't the existence of those make staff apts the ones that should get -3 :P 00:57:10 the core question is, should races get good apts for things they'd want to use (apts as guide, "this is what you should be putting points into!"), or should they have good apts for things they *wouldn't* otherwise want to use (apts as counterbalance) 00:57:21 current og design seems like it's moving toward option 2 00:57:44 <|amethyst> maybe GC/GSC should have large delays 00:57:47 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 00:58:02 <|amethyst> so they aren't "better than other MF, but only two races can use them" 00:58:04 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:58:33 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:38 hmm. giant delays or like .8? 00:58:49 <|amethyst> ??great mace 00:58:49 great mace[1/1]: (maces & flails; -4 acc / 17 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). An enormous metal war club, of great cumbrousness. The largest mace most playable races can wield. Ogres and Trolls can wield giant (spiked) clubs too. 00:58:55 <|amethyst> ??giant club 00:58:55 giant club[1/2]: (maces & flails; -6 acc / 20 dam / 1.6 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A giant lump of wood. The only playable races that can wield giant clubs are Ogres and Trolls. 00:59:11 like as in dark maul style design? 00:59:26 <|amethyst> more like bardiche 00:59:31 ??bardiche 00:59:31 incidentally I was pleasantly surprised a few months back that giant club was pretty dempting over GSC 00:59:31 bardiche[1/1]: (polearms; -6 acc / 18 dam / 2.0 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A long pole with an enormous, cleaving blade on one end. The largest polearm. Bardiches chop hydra heads. 00:59:37 with the lower skill needed, even for og 00:59:40 ??gsc 00:59:40 giant spiked club[1/4]: (maces & flails; -7 acc / 22 dam / 1.9 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A giant lump of wood with sharp spikes at one end. The only playable races that can wield giant spiked clubs are Ogres and Trolls. 00:59:58 I'm all for increasing the mindelay of gsc to skill 26 00:59:58 !apt ho 00:59:59 HO: Fighting: 2, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 3!, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -1, Shields: 1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -3, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Fire: 1, Ice: -1, Air: -2, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 3!, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: 0 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:20 option 3 is "tilting races toward one option, but not to the exclusion of others"; e.g. orcs apts tilt them toward axes, but they can certainly use other weapons if they find some real good ones 01:00:20 however with -1 apt even skill 18 is significantly more intimidating than before 01:00:42 i don't think it's bad for gc/gsc to be strong 01:01:01 yeah orc apts are more fun than mfs 01:01:15 I think the near-universal 0.7 mindelay has done bad things to weapon diversity and think there's room to play around with it on that front 01:01:37 more complexity = more to remember, of course 01:01:42 beware the cost! 01:01:44 anyway 01:01:45 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.0.2/20161129173726]] 01:01:47 I guess the apts for these three options would be like: Option 1: M&F3, other -2, Option 2: M&F -1 other 0, Option 3: all 0 01:02:25 pf: we already have crossbows messing with the min delays!!! 01:02:39 <|amethyst> ??rapier 01:02:39 rapier[1/1]: (short blades; +4 acc / 7 dam / 1.2 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A slender, sharply pointed sword, with an uncommonly elegant design. Doesn't chop hydra heads. 01:02:51 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:03:01 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:02 new og already have 3 weapon classes that they're good at 01:03:17 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:23 and they also got a bit better at short blades, a really low investment weapon type 01:03:55 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04:03 any nasty rumors to share? 01:04:23 they still don't want to use short blades though because of their -4 stealth :( 01:04:27 twelwe: I asked in the backlog, but how do you feel about the state of W? Do you think the design is still interesting to investigate further? 01:04:43 they don't want to use short blades because of.....stealth? 01:04:53 <|amethyst> twelwe: |amethyst: deli meats are a tasty and lower-calorie alternative to heavy, greasy pizza 01:05:10 they don't want to be stabbers because of stealth, sure 01:05:15 i still have an alive character playing on the aussie server and I like it. 20ev looks nice. would love to see it continue! 01:05:19 but not all short blades users are stabbers 01:05:39 the character is a formicid, i think long blades 01:05:49 does that build have riposte? 01:05:57 it should 01:06:07 @??falchion 01:06:07 unknown monster: "falchion" 01:06:09 er 01:06:10 ??falchion 01:06:10 falchion[1/2]: (long blades; +2 acc / 8 dam / 1.3 base delay / 0.6 min delay). A long single-edged sword with a slightly curved blade. 01:06:15 ??rapier 01:06:15 rapier[1/1]: (short blades; +4 acc / 7 dam / 1.2 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A slender, sharply pointed sword, with an uncommonly elegant design. Doesn't chop hydra heads. 01:06:35 seems like ogs can just do long blades over short blades... 01:06:44 twelwe: yes 01:06:50 i would playtest the hell out of it much more if it was on a console dialable server, this bad computer and webtiles *and* the server location just adds up to a very slow experience 01:07:02 yep 01:07:06 CanOfWorms: so how do I start my OgWz with a longblade? 01:07:11 also rapiers were brought up to 8 base damage, that should be fixed 01:07:25 I forget how to do that 01:07:29 how do i dump that character? 01:07:33 <|amethyst> and falchion down to 7 01:07:38 twelwe: # 01:07:42 then check: 01:07:46 <|amethyst> !learn edit rapier[1] s/7 dam/8 dam/ 01:07:46 rapier[1/1]: (short blades; +4 acc / 8 dam / 1.2 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A slender, sharply pointed sword, with an uncommonly elegant design. Doesn't chop hydra heads. 01:07:48 ahh yeah thanks 01:07:57 <|amethyst> !learn edit falchion[1] s/8 dam/7 dam/ 01:07:57 falchion[1/2]: (long blades; +2 acc / 7 dam / 1.3 base delay / 0.6 min delay). A long single-edged sword with a slightly curved blade. 01:07:58 https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/twelwe/twelwe.txt 01:08:01 gammafunk: same way you start with a dagger? 01:08:15 yeah thats it right there! 01:08:33 <|amethyst> daggers are a bit more common on D:1 than falchions 01:08:45 wow, excellent point neil 01:08:52 <|amethyst> but I can't imagine you'd have much XP into sbl before you find a falchion 01:09:08 all you need to find is a decent shortblade 01:09:16 those are more common than decent longblades 01:09:31 decent usually involves enchant/ego 01:09:53 i might submit a PR for special-case mindelay for gc/gsc 01:09:57 maybe of 1.0?? 01:10:15 <|amethyst> alexjurkiewicz: that does mean even less XP investment 01:10:19 just increase the base delay... 01:10:29 |amethyst: no, I mean the idea of increasing the base delay too 01:10:35 0.8 would still be neat 01:10:40 like dire flail in reverse 01:10:53 so the skill cap would be about the same (maybe 26 skill for gsc since that was my original idea iirc) 01:11:09 ??fail 01:11:09 success rate[1/2]: Spell success rates are coloured according to miscast severity. Grey means less than 0.1% chance of a severity 2+ miscast, yellow means < 0.5%, light red < 2.5%, dark red >= 2.5%. 01:11:14 derp 01:11:16 ??fail 01:11:16 success rate[1/2]: Spell success rates are coloured according to miscast severity. Grey means less than 0.1% chance of a severity 2+ miscast, yellow means < 0.5%, light red < 2.5%, dark red >= 2.5%. 01:11:17 ??dire flail 01:11:17 dire flail[1/1]: (maces & flails; -3 acc / 13 dam / 1.3 base delay / 0.6 min delay; two handed). A flail with long spikes and a heavier head. 01:11:29 i give up 01:11:35 what problem are we trying to solve wrt gsc/gc? 01:11:56 <|amethyst> that species that can use them need negative aptitudes to make up for how good they are 01:11:57 alexjurkiewicz: do make sure that dam/delay comfortably beats a gmace, otherwise with the higher skill they'll be pretty useless 01:12:31 rchandra: makes sense, slower speed needs more damage as compensation 01:12:56 I don't think people will love to use 1.0 delay weapons 01:13:16 there are other ways of messing with delay 01:13:21 give it enough damage and they will :D 01:13:23 and I'm not really sure that the negative aptitude is any kind of big deal 01:13:28 no that's not true 01:13:36 I think people enjoy crossbows 01:13:36 people don't use that one urand 01:13:42 yeah but crossbows are ranged 01:13:54 gammafunk: I would use dark maul if it bothered showing up in my games 01:13:55 unless you're making giant spiked xbows 01:14:04 I was sad to find dark maul on a non-tso character right after splatting with tso 01:14:09 most people don't use dark maul because that weapon delay is real annoying 01:14:17 -!- hollowman has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:02 -!- Sym has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:17:31 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:37 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5i7dju/how_to_handle_infuriating_and_stupid_deaths/ 01:17:41 some colourful language 01:18:56 72038 | Elf:3 | Noticed f0rbidden's illusion 01:18:57 72088 | Elf:3 | Noticed f0rbidden's illusion 01:18:57 72336 | Elf:3 | Noticed f0rbidden's illusion 01:19:11 there were several attempts 01:19:26 before the final success 01:19:39 I wonder what the record of mara resets is 01:19:57 also wonder if people still weild bread vs mara 01:20:01 *wield 01:20:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-296-gf222164 (34) 01:20:12 <|amethyst> there's an easy way to fix that 01:20:32 make bread the only weapon type? 01:20:32 if it's "check what they have in inventory" then players will just start dropping weapons 01:20:41 I guess you could give the illusion a fake weapon based on highest weapon skill 01:20:58 <|amethyst> I was going to say, prevent wielding non-weapon non-staves 01:21:03 he was probably going for "don't let"...yes 01:21:05 <|amethyst> I would say non-rods but 01:21:24 that should be done anyway, imo 01:21:28 <|amethyst> yeah 01:21:30 what 01:21:32 my bread 01:21:34 <|amethyst> that won't stop players from wielding -3 clubs 01:21:48 <|amethyst> but hey, that's their problem 01:21:56 why -3? 01:22:02 oh I see 01:22:14 ??club 01:22:14 club[1/2]: (maces & flails; +3 acc / 5 dam / 1.3 base delay / 0.6 min delay). A heavy piece of wood. Bad. 01:22:15 I thought you were talking about high delay swinging 01:22:21 could keep a record of "strongest weapon ever wielded in that game" but that seems like too much effort just to make an already lethal unique even more lethal 01:22:25 <|amethyst> no, still mara :) 01:22:27 but you're still talking about mara 01:22:38 <|amethyst> breadswinging would become bardicheswinging 01:22:39 yeah, clearly fix that and move to aut-based scoring at the same time 01:22:50 <|amethyst> or, more likely, scytheswinging 01:23:05 gammafunk's secret plot to destroy chei speed surfaces... 01:23:06 sigmund holds the key to High Score 01:23:07 <|amethyst> also, foods should be consolidate for 0.20 01:23:23 <|amethyst> s/ate/ated/ 01:23:26 PR already dethroned chei, chei's reign has come to and end 01:23:37 <|amethyst> there's not much reason left to have slow-eating food left now that chunks are 1-turn 01:23:48 |amethyst: you said that last version (and maybe the version before that!) 01:23:52 <|amethyst> heh 01:23:55 I have a death where I ate a ration in view of saint roka 01:24:00 nice 01:24:05 went from 75% to dead 01:24:13 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~eating 01:24:14 No games for * (status~~eating). 01:24:14 <|amethyst> FR 01:24:21 yeah that would be a fun query 01:24:24 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~stairs 01:24:25 No games for * (status~~stairs). 01:24:30 max sdam wheil status~~eating 01:24:35 *while 01:24:50 <|amethyst> hm 01:25:02 !lg * x=max(dam) status~~sleep 01:25:04 36 games for * (status~~sleep): max(dam)=78 01:25:05 think 01:25:12 <|amethyst> are sdam/tdam per turn or per action? 01:25:45 oh 01:25:48 not sure 01:26:03 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~paraly x=max(tdam) 01:26:06 74654 games for * (status~~paraly): max(tdam)=181 01:26:13 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~paraly max=tdam 01:26:16 74654. namelastname112 the Englaciator (L27 DrCj of Makhleb), slain by Evamm the pandemonium lord on Zig:27 on 2016-04-11 01:17:06, with 1519999 points after 106831 turns and 7:30:41. 01:26:17 hrm, how do I do that to see the game 01:26:18 yes 01:26:25 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:28 !lg * status~~sleep max(dam) 01:26:30 36. WereVolvo the Severer (L12 HOFi of Okawaru), annihilated by a tyrant leech (kmap: minmay_swamp_entry_worms) on Lair:3 on 2016-12-02 21:49:48, with 18991 points after 13485 turns and 0:26:12. 01:26:42 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~sleep max(dam) x=dam 01:26:44 36. [dam=78] WereVolvo the Severer (L12 HOFi of Okawaru), annihilated by a tyrant leech (kmap: minmay_swamp_entry_worms) on Lair:3 on 2016-12-02 21:49:48, with 18991 points after 13485 turns and 0:26:12. 01:26:48 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~sleep max(tdam) x=tdam 01:26:50 36. [tdam=78] WereVolvo the Severer (L12 HOFi of Okawaru), annihilated by a tyrant leech (kmap: minmay_swamp_entry_worms) on Lair:3 on 2016-12-02 21:49:48, with 18991 points after 13485 turns and 0:26:12. 01:26:56 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~sleep max(dam) x=tdam,sdam,dam 01:26:58 36. [tdam=78;sdam=78;dam=78] WereVolvo the Severer (L12 HOFi of Okawaru), annihilated by a tyrant leech (kmap: minmay_swamp_entry_worms) on Lair:3 on 2016-12-02 21:49:48, with 18991 points after 13485 turns and 0:26:12. 01:27:05 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~sleep max(tdam) x=tdam,sdam,dam 01:27:07 36. [tdam=78;sdam=78;dam=78] WereVolvo the Severer (L12 HOFi of Okawaru), annihilated by a tyrant leech (kmap: minmay_swamp_entry_worms) on Lair:3 on 2016-12-02 21:49:48, with 18991 points after 13485 turns and 0:26:12. 01:27:17 <|amethyst> I guess sleep would be just one hit though 01:27:21 <|amethyst> since that wakes you 01:27:25 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~paraly max(tdam) x=tdam,sdam,dam 01:27:28 74654. [tdam=181;sdam=44;dam=44] namelastname112 the Englaciator (L27 DrCj of Makhleb), slain by Evamm the pandemonium lord on Zig:27 on 2016-04-11 01:17:06, with 1519999 points after 106831 turns and 7:30:41. 01:27:34 <|amethyst> !lg * status~~paraly max(dam) x=tdam,sdam,dam 01:27:36 74654. [tdam=109;sdam=106;dam=106] Pac the Farming Anemomancer (L27 MuAE of Sif Muna), blasted by an ancient lich (iron shot) on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2011-06-18 20:24:59, with 703509 points after 216265 turns and 11:41:37. 01:27:37 what is tdam again? 01:27:42 ??tdam 01:27:43 I don't have a page labeled tdam in my learndb. Did you mean: dam, tda, dam+. 01:27:49 <|amethyst> total damage in the last turn 01:27:54 <|amethyst> whatever "turn" means here 01:27:57 oh, from all sources 01:28:00 with the removal of HE, I'd like to re-suggest that Ash consider armour/jewellery bound with at least half of the slots bound, instead of more than half 01:28:01 not just the killing source? 01:28:12 <|amethyst> yeah 01:29:00 what does that have eto do with HE? 01:29:29 <|amethyst> Speaking of non sequiturs, https://github.com/uuner/sedtris 01:29:52 i think high elf and ashenzari is one of those things where f you mix up the letters, they spell the same word 01:29:59 <|amethyst> it's kind of cheating because the input and main game loop are done in bash, not sed 01:30:04 Brannock: HE were a normal race with 5 auxes. Tengu are their closest analogue, with 4 01:30:06 also Ds 01:30:23 er, 5 armours 01:30:37 <|amethyst> remove tengu gloves 01:30:50 I see 01:30:50 <|amethyst> make all DS monstrous 01:30:51 I'm still disappointed Fen Elf never made it in 01:30:59 it had a distinct aptitude spread 01:31:06 in order to add fen elf, you'd have to remove cats! 01:31:13 rchandra, I play Ash occasionally and I think that's reasonable 01:32:18 !apt hp 01:32:18 HP: Tr: 3!, Og: 3!, DD: 2, Na: 2, Gh: 1, HO: 1, Ce: 1, Dr: 1, Dg: 1, Mi: 1, Mf: 0, Vp: 0, Hu: 0, Ds: 0, HE: N/A, Mu: 0, Fo: 0, Op: -1, Ha: -1, Ko: -2, Te: -2, Gr: -2, DE: -2, VS: -3, Sp: -3, Fe: -4* 01:34:25 !lg * current trunk ashenzari / won 01:34:36 26/1428 games for * (current trunk ashenzari): N=26/1428 (1.82%) 01:34:40 !lg * current trunk god !ashenzari / won 01:34:51 648/37625 games for * (current trunk god !ashenzari): N=648/37625 (1.72%) 01:34:56 above average 01:34:59 since that includes godless, that's pretty weak 01:35:08 oh, it doesn't 01:35:26 could probably exclude low-level games 01:35:28 <|amethyst> !lg * current te ashenzari / won 01:35:28 becauase of AK and CK 01:35:29 read it as god!=ash 01:35:30 2/64 games for * (current te ashenzari): N=2/64 (3.12%) 01:35:36 <|amethyst> !lg * current te god !ashenzari / won 01:35:37 39/1812 games for * (current te god !ashenzari): N=39/1812 (2.15%) 01:35:47 low sample size 01:36:04 <|amethyst> it's not a sample, it's the population :) 01:36:08 oh 01:36:10 you're right 01:36:18 that suggestion is more for feel than balance 01:36:28 <|amethyst> still, n is too small to draw conclusions 01:36:32 but I expect effect balance wise to be minimal 01:38:05 <|amethyst> and I guess since we can't !lg offline games, it is a sample after all 01:39:29 man are we really nearly to 700 wins already in trunk 01:39:34 online population's getting big 01:39:48 <|amethyst> !lg * current trunk won 01:39:51 684. Clockwork the Wrestler (L27 TrMo of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-12-14 05:35:12, with 26233641 points after 57139 turns and 4:23:28. 01:40:00 <|amethyst> !lg * 0.19 trunk won 01:40:03 No games for * (0.19 trunk won). 01:40:13 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a0 trunk won 01:40:13 No games for * (cv=0.19-a0 trunk won). 01:40:16 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a trunk won 01:40:19 4610. Elnono the Phalangite (L27 FoFi of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-12-08 16:22:42, with 1649527 points after 79263 turns and 10:00:47. 01:40:33 <|amethyst> !lg * current trunk won 1 01:40:36 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a trunk won 1 01:40:40 1/684. kroki the Conqueror (L27 MiBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-10-27 11:54:11, with 1678472 points after 78940 turns and 1:45:02. 01:40:44 !kw trunk 01:40:45 Keyword: trunk => alpha !experimental 01:40:46 1/4610. PeterLawrence the Minotaur Barricade (L27 MiFi of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-04-27 08:54:23, with 14280032 points after 112740 turns and 10:08:06. 01:42:04 wait, 0.19-a on December 8? 01:42:11 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a trunk won x=src 01:42:11 what serverw as hosting that? 01:42:14 4610. [src=cao] Elnono the Phalangite (L27 FoFi of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-12-08 16:22:42, with 1649527 points after 79263 turns and 10:00:47. 01:42:17 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a trunk won -2 x=src 01:42:20 4609/4610. [src=cwz] bluepin the Wrestler (L27 OpWr of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-11-05 17:12:00, with 1763648 points after 64831 turns and 2:58:44. 01:42:29 guess it's a savegame 01:42:33 <|amethyst> probably someone who explicitly didn't transfer 01:42:53 so about seven months for 4600 wins 01:43:07 <|amethyst> well 01:43:43 <|amethyst> !kw t 01:43:43 Built-in: t => start>='2016-11-04 20:00:00' time<'2016-11-20 20:00:00' ((cv=0.19|0.19-a)) explbr= 01:43:57 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a trunk won rstart<=20161004 01:44:03 4587. Elnono the Phalangite (L27 FoFi of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-12-08 16:22:42, with 1649527 points after 79263 turns and 10:00:47. 01:44:19 <|amethyst> err 01:44:20 <|amethyst> right 01:44:27 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.19-a trunk won rend<=20161004 01:44:34 4585. kottodat the Shatterer (L27 TrBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2016-11-03 17:29:58, with 2788020 points after 94114 turns and 5:04:29. 01:44:49 <|amethyst> 4585 in a little over five months 01:45:10 <|amethyst> err, a little over six months 01:50:12 any good dream sheep fanfic yet? 01:50:31 fuck 01:50:32 I just realized 01:50:42 I never saved the really good dream sheep "fanart" I found a month ago 01:50:46 it's somewhere in the logs I guess 01:50:52 also we still don't have a dream sheep tile!! 01:51:12 or frilled lizard, or two-headed ogre, or... 01:51:15 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 01:51:58 You see here Natasha, the two-deaded felid 01:52:32 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:35 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-296-gf222164 01:59:26 https://sites.google.com/site/cherrypickedbadideas/ 02:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:06 didn't that carnivorous one actually get implemented 02:02:08 as part of hydra form 02:03:30 do titans (or other enemies) bounce lightning now that the default targetter knows how? 02:03:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:03:58 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:05:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:08:09 -!- glaas has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 02:13:10 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:27:35 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:28:35 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:28:53 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:46 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:50 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:38:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 02:39:42 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 02:41:03 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:14 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:51:39 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:54:40 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-296-gf222164 02:57:34 -!- ChongLi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:42 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 02:59:13 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 03:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:39 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:47 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:59 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 03:10:21 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:26 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Changing host] 03:11:09 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:30 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 03:15:24 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:09 Experimental (councilgod-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-442-g3f2221c 03:27:11 -!- DaneitwoTWO has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 03:30:05 -!- mymosh has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:10 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-296-gf222164 (34) 03:41:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:43:20 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 03:50:57 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:54:30 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:00:06 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:15 -!- Zxpr1jk has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:07:31 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:07 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:18:42 -!- kogasa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:05 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:42 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:47:18 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:47 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:04 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:06:28 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:16:05 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:55 -!- BoGuE has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:26:38 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:39 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:30:53 -!- doll has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:31:38 -!- chan20 has quit [Client Quit] 05:32:44 !messages 05:32:44 No messages for SteelNeuron. 05:36:04 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:45:47 -!- Bammboo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:05 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:42 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:03:11 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:17:51 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:57 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:34 -!- fazisi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:51 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:52 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:11 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:32 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:30 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:25 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:20:20 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:49 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:23:01 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:53 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:56 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:20 Funny HE removal thread, the reactions still kick in <3 07:40:20 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:40:28 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:47 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:55:57 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:07:16 -!- Telnaior has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:07:21 -!- Telnaior_ is now known as Telnaior 08:13:16 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:29 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:07 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:35 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:17 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:31 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 08:42:30 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:27 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:16 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15:34 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:12 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 09:38:36 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:47 I commented on demise's video in support 09:46:58 important to encourage our players 09:49:13 -!- doll has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:52:43 gammafunk: demise's video re: species changes? 09:52:52 What's demise say on the subject? 09:55:20 I can't imagine demise enjoys high elves 09:55:56 the Og mace apt nerf is bizarre however 09:56:00 what was the reasoning? 09:56:41 it won't really make Og much weaker, but it's like nerfing Mf polearms down to 0 09:56:50 some kind of flat apt master race ideal? 09:57:11 nothing bizarre about it 09:57:18 Lasty_: oh I didn't watch the video 09:57:23 haha 09:57:26 but he had my commit pulled up the whole time 09:57:27 so what was the reason then? 09:57:32 so I wanted to comment on it 09:57:43 don't commit messages have reasons? 09:57:46 %git :/Ogre 09:57:46 07gammafunk02 {MarvinPA} * 0.20-a0-295-gab3cf41: Remove High Elves 10(3 months ago, 29 files, 54+ 164-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab3cf41a3731 09:57:50 %git :/Ogre 09:57:50 07gammafunk02 {MarvinPA} * 0.20-a0-295-gab3cf41: Remove High Elves 10(3 months ago, 29 files, 54+ 164-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab3cf41a3731 09:57:51 zxc: I would love nerfing MF polearm apt. It makes them a bit monochromatic 09:57:52 er 09:57:56 !gitgrep 2 Ogre 09:57:57 %git HEAD^{/Ogre}^^{/Ogre} 09:57:57 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-294-g8e39459: Increase Ogre spellcasting apts, decrease M&F apt 10(4 days ago, 4 files, 24+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8e39459e6cb5 09:58:18 I am not sure there is much difference between melee weapon A and melee weapon B 09:58:34 then...why would you complain about the apt not being +3 09:58:42 it's the same either way right 09:58:43 zxc: yeah, so why not have all apts be at the same level? 09:58:52 change for the sake of change? 09:59:07 so if it were already -1 and we changed it to +3 09:59:12 If +4 weapon apts are good for MF, seems to me they should all be +4 09:59:13 that would _not_ be change for the sake of change 09:59:26 anyhow the reasoning is very obvious, and it's in the commit 09:59:37 yes I couldn't remember the git cmd 09:59:38 just giving the player some incentive to maybe choose not m&f 09:59:58 well you claimed it's bizarre without reading why it was made 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:05 that's not very reasonable, is it 10:00:20 well it's certainly bizarre if you don't have any reasoning available 10:00:29 and I didn't have access to the commit 10:00:53 I don't see the reasoning - this just relates to HE removal which I like 10:01:30 "the reasoning for this change is bizarre because i haven't made any effort to find out what the reasoning for this change is" is some extremely high quality logic 10:01:36 yep 10:02:15 it is perfectly valid to state that it appears bizarre on first look and to ask for reasoning 10:03:27 Lasty_: how would you change Mf apts? 10:03:49 !apt mf 10:03:50 Mf: Fighting: 1, Short: 2, Long: 1, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: 4!, Staves: -2, Slings: -2, Bows: -2, Xbows: -2, Throw: 0, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 3, Stealth: 2, Shields: 0, UC: 1!, Splcast: -1, Conj: -2, Hexes: 0, Charms: 1, Summ: 0, Nec: -2, Tloc: -2, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -3*, Ice: 1, Air: -2, Earth: -2, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 0, MP: 0 10:04:01 gammafunk: I'm not sure. If we want to keep their power level about on par, I'd give them +4 to all weapon apts. Except maybe ranged ones, since those are kinda differentish. 10:04:25 But I'd be fine w/ cutting the power level and giving them instead global +2 or something like that 10:04:40 yeah, but that's a bit Te's niche (and HO) 10:04:52 !apt ho 10:04:53 HO: Fighting: 2, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 3!, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -1, Shields: 1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -3, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Fire: 1, Ice: -1, Air: -2, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 3!, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: 0 10:05:16 not quite as much, and they have low staves 10:05:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:38 Arguably the significant differences between MF & HO are that MF have better weapon apts, better dodging apts, and worse Armour and Invo 10:05:54 Also stat differences 10:06:06 and some magic school differences, and +1 HP apt difference... 10:06:08 ...beogh...BEOGH BEOGH BEOGH... 10:06:19 (and swimming) 10:06:34 but what I mean to say is that they're relatively similar in the way that they're "pretty durable and good with weapons", but MF is better with weapons. 10:07:07 But with the relatively insignificant asterisk that the weapon has to be a polearm 10:07:38 yeah, even bettor weapon use but bad at dodging/armour 10:07:41 *better 10:08:06 which is kind of what large species do, but there are other differences there, and Mf also have a special water movement thing 10:08:11 They're better at dodging, and their combined defensive apts are better 10:08:16 er 10:08:22 bad at armour, sorry, not dodging 10:08:32 actually, if you include shields, their combined defensive apts are the same 10:08:41 forgot about HO's +1 to shields 10:09:16 And I'm pretty sure HO has str-leaning stats versus MF's dex-leaning stats. 10:09:21 ??sid 10:09:21 stat gain[2/2]: Ce sd/4 | DD si/4 | DE i/4 | Dg choose2/3 | Dr sid/4 | Ds sid/4 | Fe id/5 | Fo si/4 | Gh s/5 | Gr si/4 | Ha d/5 | HE id/3 | HO s/5 | Hu sid/4 | Ko sd/5 | Mf sid/5 | Mi sd/4 | Mu sid/5 | Na sid/4 | Og s/3 | Op sid/5 | Sp id/5 | Te sid/4 | Tr s/3 | Vp id/5 | VS sd/4 10:09:31 indeed 10:09:38 well Mf not dex-leaning 10:09:45 !stats hosk 10:09:46 Starting stats for HOSk: Str 14 Int 12 Dex 10. Stat gain: s/5 10:09:48 !stats mfsk 10:10:22 Starting stats for MfSk: Str 12 Int 11 Dex 13. Stat gain: sid/5 10:10:35 oh, huh. I thought they got more dex. 10:15:46 gammafunk: but yeah, my feeling is that overall flat weapon apts and flat launcher apts are a good idea. There is some distinction among weapon types, but I think it's much more interesting to allow players to make the choice between them than to heavily incentivize one choice over another. Short Blades might be the one exception, since they're the most differenty of the weapon classes 10:18:27 apts don't rule out choice - you may find a strong weapon of a different type to the one your apts promote 10:18:42 -!- mibe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:47 zxc: true, and every now and then that can yield an interesting scenario, but I'd argue that it's a rare exception 10:20:06 right, it makes those choices a lot less common, having such skewed apts 10:20:18 it seems to happen in many of my games, and the only time I can completely ignore it is when I start Be 10:20:31 although even then if you find something amazing in early D... 10:21:05 probably crawl's apt/skill system is just too fine (too many weapons skills) 10:21:16 if flat apts are so great, then why have apts? 10:21:24 You frequently have games where you start training one weapon that you have good apts for, then later find and switch to a weapon you have bad apts for, and making the choice feels interesting? 10:21:25 but as a compromise, making them flatter without their being completely flat works 10:21:45 zxc: I'd be fine with having a "melee" apt 10:21:45 if it's just to discourage certain skills from being trained then that could be done with 0 and -4 being the only apt values 10:22:11 that could happen in the future 10:22:17 and then there'd be a rant video... 10:22:24 and then someone would come in and say 10:22:30 zxc: IMO apts work best when they change the range of options you have when playing a given race. c.f. Centaur's horrible defensive apts. 10:22:53 it seems like apts are something that you can just shuffle around a lot in the name of species differentiation instead of making interesting abilities or limitations for each race 10:23:20 yeah, that seemed to be how most of the original species came together 10:23:21 and the species which are humans but with shuffled apts are getting culled (HE for one) 10:23:45 yeah, dcss is a game that evolves like that over time 10:24:13 there might come a time when we have fewer skills and HO has something more unique than "gimmick god + use axes + invocations" 10:24:37 innate beoghness 10:24:38 HE is basically "human with better apts except XP and HP". It had a few odd quirks in the apts other than that, but "human but better" isn't a bad apt pattern, it just means you should also have some corresponding penalty. 10:24:48 Lasty_: uh, blonde hair? 10:24:58 gammafunk: right, corresponding disadvantages 10:24:59 we need to get on the same page about what was great about HE, people 10:25:02 what!!!! 10:25:50 what's important is this: PurpleRed can't improve his HE score in trunk and beyond 10:25:55 he had to be stopped somehow 10:26:04 !hs * HE-- 10:26:14 304958. PurpleRed the Archmage (L27 HECj of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-10-06 02:48:34, with 51260048 points after 28314 turns and 12:08:18. 10:27:51 Hm 10:28:50 Random idea: How about instead of weapon type aptitudes, we keep the number of aptitudes equal but change the perspective, so you get "finesse" (attack speed) "tactics" (better use of cleave, stabbing, etc) "brutality" (melee damage) etc 10:29:15 naturally these map better to some weapons than others, but the build would be more modular rather than pigeonholing into a single weapon type 10:29:48 It's a stupidly radical idea, but hey you're talking about the possibility to remove weapon apts so why not up the ante 10:30:36 it would give berserkers more things to train at least 10:31:56 Fighting would be the baseline that gives you a bit of everything, and these skills would help specialize 10:35:01 zxc: I think SteelNeuron is proposing not new skills, but new aptitudes like HP/MP/XP 10:35:12 things that apply without being themselves skills 10:35:37 you sure? 10:35:49 SteelNeuron: confirm? 10:35:55