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Leaving] 10:02:02 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:07:54 -!- varmin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:07:54 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:48 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:59 -!- oho_hups has quit [Quit: bong timeout] 10:15:59 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:39:33 -!- flord has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:40:18 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:40:18 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:46:54 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:09 -!- jefus is now known as jefus_ 10:48:32 -!- jefus_ is now known as jefus 10:51:06 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:58:57 .cobbed 10:58:58 9. Gressup the Impregnable (L25 GrIE of Okawaru), starved to death on Zot:2 on 2015-08-22 00:55:54, with 533896 points after 74322 turns and 4:40:37. 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:57 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:48 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:03:00 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 11:03:18 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:28 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:08:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:10 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:16:59 -!- DDFi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:17:00 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:22:07 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:05 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:26:26 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 11:29:47 -!- radinms has quit [] 11:32:22 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:36:46 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:38:38 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:43:09 -!- jazmu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:10 -!- Vesto has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:10 -!- Cenon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:10 -!- Cenon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:02 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:53:15 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:40 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:59:16 -!- jazmu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:16 -!- Vesto has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:16 -!- Cenon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:17 -!- Cenon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:47 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:09 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:56 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:04:29 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:16 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:15:01 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:49 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:59 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:15 -!- cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:19:06 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:07 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:29:25 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:30:05 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:23 -!- stickup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:37 -!- GauHelldragon2 is now known as GauHelldragon 12:48:57 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:38 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:51 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:41 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1718-g72dbe4d (34) 13:06:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:22 It seems that debian stable actually uses a newer libstdc++6 (4.9) than what ubuntu trusty (4.8) does, and the latest linux mint (17.2, an LTS release) has only 4.8 13:12:41 so permaps we don't want to make packages relative to debian stable 13:13:14 or at least not yet 13:13:51 so "stable" is too new? 13:13:51 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 13:14:11 I guess for some other distros, debian stable is a bit too new, yeah 13:15:10 for ubuntu we could just tell people to upgrade, but that's the latest release of Mint 13:15:44 looks like only july of this year 13:17:02 in any case, unless there's some easier solution or otherwise a problem with building relative to trusty (aside from me forgetting to use that distro every time), maybe we should just build relative to that for now 13:23:39 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:24:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:57 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:44 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:46 -!- copt has quit [] 13:44:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:46:13 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:47:18 -!- BanMido has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:49 -!- BanMido has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:45 -!- bel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:08 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:04:39 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:21 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:56 avis (L9 MuIE) ASSERT(item.base_type == OBJ_ARMOUR) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 1421 failed. (D:8) 14:18:52 !crashlog 14:18:53 11571. avis, XL9 MuIE, T:12329 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/avis/crash-avis-20150824-181355.txt 14:19:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:19:25 maurice stole his shield while he was putting it on 14:19:53 hahaha, nice 14:34:20 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:35:43 -!- rubinko__ is now known as rubinko 14:39:21 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:18 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:05 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:48:52 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:07 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:52:11 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:54:10 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:56 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:09 -!- GauHelldragon2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:10 wheals_: surprising that this bug has never happened before 15:09:05 good bug 15:11:06 maurice is such a troll 15:13:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:13:49 <|amethyst> !crashlog noun~~base_type_==_OBJ_ARMOUR 15:13:50 No milestones for |amethyst (noun~~base_type_==_OBJ_ARMOUR crash). 15:13:53 <|amethyst> !crashlog * noun~~base_type_==_OBJ_ARMOUR 15:13:54 29. avis, XL9 MuIE, T:12329 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/avis/crash-avis-20150824-181355.txt 15:13:56 <|amethyst> !crashlog * noun~~base_type_==_OBJ_ARMOUR -2 15:14:12 28/29. Zanzabar, XL13 TrMo, T:22615 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Zanzabar/crash-Zanzabar-20131031-003531.txt 15:15:06 <|amethyst> !crashlog * noun~~base_type_==_OBJ_ARMOUR -3 15:15:12 27/29. Paster, XL10 HOFi, T:9352 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Paster/crash-Paster-20130428-092857.txt 15:15:38 <|amethyst> that one is the same crash (28 is not) 15:15:50 <|amethyst> so it has happened before, just not in the past two years :) 15:19:25 -!- triuba has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:30 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:30 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:31 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:31 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:38:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:46 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:43:35 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:39 -!- Karasu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:51:22 oh weird, didn't know how the error...thing...showed up as the noun like that 15:55:18 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 15:57:39 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 16:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:48 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 16:06:33 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12:37 -!- kvaak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:13:57 -!- emikaela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:25:00 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:15 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:35:19 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:36:55 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:37:23 [20:51] <+ gammafunk>| oh weird, didn't know how the error...thing...showed up as the noun like that Lohengra~ 16:37:26 [20:57] --- | amalloy is now known as amalloy_ MakMorn 16:37:30 [21:32] --- | amalloy_ is now known as amalloy Mindiell 16:37:33 whoops 16:47:59 Burn the channel flooder with hellfire! 16:48:10 !hellfire Bodrick 16:48:10 * Sequell ends Bodrick in hellfire! You hear a strangely unpleasant explosion. 16:48:37 :( 16:51:43 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:26 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:49 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:16 -!- urechis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:54 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:46 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:09 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 17:09:48 -!- joke_LA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:55 -!- CcS has quit [] 17:11:39 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:56 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:19 -!- wheals_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:20 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:36:31 -!- Prozacelf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:45:10 -!- speranza has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:34 -!- Voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:25 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1718-g72dbe4d (34) 18:02:30 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06:41 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:11 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:03 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:14:50 -!- Razawaza has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:21:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:46 -!- BlackGyver_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:05 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: RIP] 18:33:06 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:54 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:24 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:05 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:47:38 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:51:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:52:16 I'm kind of confused by can_quaff() and quaff() in the potion classes 18:52:23 seems there are duplicated checks in many cases 18:53:16 oh, all calls to can_quaff() are in potion.cc, so maybe this is easy to fix up 18:54:14 <|amethyst> Doesn't quaff usually call can_quaff? 18:54:15 I guess it's when potions have multiple reasons for being unable to quaff, like heal wounds 18:54:22 well, look at heal wounds 18:56:00 <|amethyst> I guess that's to get the right message 18:56:05 <|amethyst> since can_quaff only returns a boolean 18:56:07 also, Bodrick's PR moves stuff nicely into the PotionBlood class but the checks he moved into quaff() didn't get a corresponding treatment in can_quaff() 18:56:10 yeah 18:56:32 so I was confused, thinking "well do I need to duplicate these checks in PotionBlood's can_quaff()?" 18:57:06 looks like the only callers of can_quaff() are the corresponding quaff() methods 18:57:10 if can_quaff is only callable from potion.cc, you can change it to return a reason-string 18:57:11 with one exception in xom.cc 18:57:29 yeah, maybe with a pointer argument? 18:57:33 not sure the cleanest way to do that 18:57:57 I assume we don't want to check for a null string or something 18:58:27 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:59:06 well, if memory management weren't an issue i'd replace the boolean return value with a const char* return 18:59:41 <|amethyst> :( 18:59:45 hehe 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:11 Nice try, but this roguelike has a C.S. prof on the dev team! 19:00:55 (n.b. amalloy probably has more experience with ideal semantics than I do anyhow) 19:01:22 i do? i bet you forgot the | in |am 19:01:35 no I meant you! 19:01:42 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 19:01:59 <|amethyst> template struct maybe { operator bool() { return internal_ptr; } ... } 19:02:11 <|amethyst> then return a maybe 19:02:16 oh no....no! 19:02:41 +1 for reimplementing haskell in c++ 19:02:52 gosh, is that how haskell works? 19:02:55 <|amethyst> but failing that, I'd use an optional out-param, null by default 19:02:56 no 19:03:25 ok, maybe we can try the null-default out param 19:03:36 <|amethyst> or rename it from can_quaff 19:03:53 |amethyst: if we used that particular definition of maybe you'd have to rename it anyway 19:03:54 sorry, rename it? 19:04:04 because the string would be truthy iff you can't quaff 19:04:29 gammafunk: rename it to why_cant_i_quaff_this_thing 19:04:35 <|amethyst> amalloy: oh, good point 19:04:51 <|amethyst> template struct comaybe { operator bool() { return !internal_ptr; } ... } 19:04:56 haha 19:05:15 sigh...I should have just asked in ##perl or something 19:06:21 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:06:23 <|amethyst> hmm 19:06:43 <|amethyst> presumably this way we can also get rid of most of the implementations of quaff? 19:07:24 <|amethyst> since they would in general be if (was_known && !can_quaff(&reason)) { mpr(reason); return false; } effect(was_known); return true; 19:07:53 yeah, I was hoping for a simplification like that in the end 19:11:40 |amethyst: out of curiosity what is the implied type of reason here? char*? std::string? i don't totally know how std::string behaves 19:12:07 <|amethyst> amalloy: Yeah, reason would be a string, the parameter a string* 19:12:32 <|amethyst> amalloy: by pointer rather than reference so it can be optional 19:12:33 so string is perfectly fine at being dynamically built and/or resizing itself? 19:12:48 <|amethyst> string is fine with an assignment operator, yes 19:13:10 most of the messages are const so you could easily just write *reason = "whatever", but a few of them use mprf currently 19:13:12 <|amethyst> inside can_quaff it would be something like if (reason) { *reason = "because you suck"; } 19:13:20 so i am not sure where the space is going to be allocated 19:13:26 <|amethyst> then you'd use *reason = make_stringf(...) 19:13:36 <|amethyst> amalloy: depends on which space you're talking about 19:13:45 <|amethyst> amalloy: the string will be owned by the called (so quaff() here) 19:13:54 <|amethyst> amalloy: the string's character data is owned by the string 19:13:58 <|amethyst> s/called/caller/ 19:14:14 <|amethyst> string has value semantics, so just imagine it's an int pointer instead 19:15:07 * amalloy is reading make_stringf 19:15:20 and we have to use .c_str() to get the character data 19:15:22 <|amethyst> make_stringf is essentially just sprintf but it builds a string 19:15:28 or is there an mpr that takes a string 19:15:38 <|amethyst> gammafunk: mpr takes a string 19:15:56 ok, there are a bunch of times we have to use .c_str() but I guess mpr isn't one of them 19:16:05 <|amethyst> it's mprf that only takes char*, because of limitations of varargs in C++ 19:16:14 ah, maybe that's it then 19:16:41 <|amethyst> anything with format strings needs .c_str(), and at least in our codebase most other things don't 19:17:10 <|amethyst> fstream::open needs it I guess 19:17:21 <|amethyst> and anything from the C library 19:19:43 <|amethyst> FR: a literal operator for format "strings" with well-typed slots 19:20:02 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:38 -!- kvaak has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:41 <|amethyst> s/operator/operator ""_p/ 19:20:52 So I guess I can move quaff() just into PotionEffect and override only for things like PotionBlood that need their own? 19:21:17 it has effect(was_known, 1040); 19:21:40 oh it must already have that.. 19:21:47 yep 19:22:04 <|amethyst> yeah... I'm not terribly happy about the way the effect() parameters work, but I can't think of a better way to do it 19:22:21 so it looks like string(char*) makes a copy of the char* it's given, and then frees that copy in ~string(). so make_stringf uses a temporary buffer to initialize the string it returns, and then lets the string own its own copy. now i understand, for the moment at least, how *reason = make_stringf(...) would work 19:24:01 <|amethyst> amalloy: C++'s containers all work that way (unless there are some weird ones I am forgetting) 19:24:29 <|amethyst> amalloy: they own the data they contain, meaning their constructors allocate and destructors free 19:24:46 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:46 <|amethyst> (and insertion might allocate too) 19:25:02 <|amethyst> s/might allocate/might re-allocate/ 19:26:37 <|amethyst> hm 19:26:50 <|amethyst> vmake_stringf could probably be improved in that respect though 19:27:32 <|amethyst> to avoid having to copy the resulting char array so many times, you could do 19:27:45 so like a linkedlist mallocs and owns a bunch of listnode (or whatever), and frees them in the destructor. does it also own the Ts? i guess...the answer to this is yes, and if you would rather own them yourself then you use a list and let it "own" the pointers, who have a no-op destructor? 19:28:02 <|amethyst> amalloy: right 19:28:25 <|amethyst> amalloy: (well, probably the listnode would own the T) 19:28:30 right 19:28:43 <|amethyst> well 19:28:45 -!- Moanerette has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:29:05 <|amethyst> these days you would probably use a unique_ptr or shared_ptr rather than a raw T* 19:29:14 yes, i didn't want to get into that 19:29:21 <|amethyst> but there is plenty of vector in our code 19:29:28 <|amethyst> !source deleteAll 19:29:28 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/libutil.h#l133 19:29:52 shared_ptr is just refcounted, right? it doesn't really cope with cycles? 19:30:08 <|amethyst> right 19:30:25 <|amethyst> there is weak_ptr if you want to be able to handle cycles 19:30:46 <|amethyst> s/handle/explicitly break/ 19:31:01 <|amethyst> err, not quite that, but "do what weak pointers do" 19:31:08 <|amethyst> not count towards the refcount 19:31:22 <|amethyst> (at the cost of possibly disappearing at any minute) 19:32:12 <|amethyst> unique_ptr, on the other hand, is essentially free 19:32:12 -!- Smello has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:32:44 hm. how does operator* for weak_ptr work, if it could disappear any time? it can't give you a T out of nothing. i get how java's WeakReference works, because null is always an option 19:34:04 <|amethyst> It doesn't have an operator*; instead, you use .lock() to upgrade the weak_ptr to a shared_ptr 19:34:20 aha 19:34:33 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:34:34 <|amethyst> at which point it crystallises to either null ("empty shared pointer") or not 19:34:46 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:42 <|amethyst> (well, "it" there being the shared_pointer; it's not actually an "upgrade", but returns a new object) 19:35:51 <|amethyst> new shared_ptr object 19:36:29 <|amethyst> so when *that* goes out of scope, the refcount is back where it started, and the weak pointer is still a weak pointer 19:36:29 of course 19:37:53 PS i hope you don't mind that i am asking you c++ questions that i could probably find the answers to with google 19:40:22 <|amethyst> no worries, except that google knows the new pointer stuff better than I, who am still learning 19:40:25 <|amethyst> shared_ptr and unique_ptr that is 19:42:05 <|amethyst> A nice talk that covers much of the C++11 and C++14 stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqTKD8uD64 19:42:21 <|amethyst> also anything by Stephan T Lavavej 19:42:53 <|amethyst> and most of Bjarne's talks too 19:43:18 <_miek> this sounds like all the confusing stuff that makes my headspin whenever I try to code in D 19:43:41 <|amethyst> pointer stuff starts around minute 12 19:49:17 ho boy, c++14 19:49:29 <|amethyst> 17 is coming up :) 19:50:27 -!- Aethelwulf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:53:54 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:00 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:16 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:57:50 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:33 i miss the old days of looking forward to C++0x 20:01:05 now that they seem to be on a stable 3-year cycle it is too predictable to be exciting 20:01:15 |amethyst: apparently we'll get it down to for (e : c) {} from for (auto &e : c) {} eventually 20:13:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:17:18 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:29 congrats neil. your ghost has apparently killed me more than any other =P 20:18:46 !gkills neil 20:18:47 396 kills by neil's ghost: 61x Neil, 6x Sabaki, 4x frobop, 4x Disco, 4x nooodl, 3x pivotal, 3x zogre, 3x jejorda2, 3x inspector071, 3x silentsnack, 3x ProzacElf, 2x mother3end, 2x UseBees, 2x Roarke, 2x esfblueriver, 2x packetmantis, 2x fleugma, 2x Promephix, 2x dialectric, 2x minmay, 2x tbvs, 2x Elynae, 2x sorbius, 2x Tarezax, 2x gruevy, 2x zkyp, 2x Bruce, 2x Assbag, 2x 10111993, 2x Baljet, 2x Ak... 20:19:06 funny how most players have themselves as the top gkill 20:19:08 !gkills . 20:19:08 49 kills by gammafunk's ghost: 5x gammafunk, 2x negentropic, Deprived, exith, palunkus, Wolfechu, rubinko, MoogleDan, superfun, lordmilkman, Rahsegel, guido, Tiz, happinesssam, corgi, Samir, qtip, tempest67, flammie, vcordie, LogicNinja, Dynast, flaco, Poncheis, PrincessAutism, HenryCase, jejorda2, enigmoo, Miron, KuKumber, raikaria, omoto, Doomseed, TheQuake, timbw, youknowme, robotron1971, zzyzx... 20:19:33 I think it's when starting games in successing, you have a higher chance of meeting your own ghost 20:19:38 so you get more opportunities 20:20:13 !gkills qw 20:20:14 44 kills by qw's ghost: 11x qw, ElectronicFerret, 10111993, Buffagor, Tarezax, wafflepants, Exkaiser, Rationalist, CosmicAfro, sleeves, frobop, LuauGod420, Baljet, Highplains, snoopy, jacquesderrida, stevs, packetmantis, KingMidas, Un67, HUNGRYM, bigpimpin, ElderVIII, Waterpls, Roshnak, mdk, friendlybee, Ascension, TheDoctor, proxiehunter, Moofyman, eyebrow, shummie, lastplaneout 20:20:32 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:46 gammafunk: even more than that, a lot of the players your ghost killed a year ago are probably not even playing crawl anymore today 20:20:55 the one player who's guaranteed to be active in the same timespan you are is yourself 20:21:20 amalloy: I don't believe that's as dominant a factor, but that is a good point 20:21:34 I know that most of my ghost encounters have been when I've been playing games in succession 20:21:35 <_miek> its probably more abuot the games in succession thing 20:21:43 <_miek> which is a good reason to play one game, die and then give up for the night :P 20:22:01 you just greatly increase the odds of running into your own ghost by immediately starting another game 20:22:04 I've seen this happen a lot 20:22:24 some of these things you'll only see if you play a lot of games :) 20:22:51 haha 20:22:56 it is true though 20:23:00 !lg prozacelf 20:23:01 1569. ProzacElf the Slasher (L5 HaWr), slain by a gnoll (a +0 spear) on D:3 on 2015-08-24 23:22:35, with 156 points after 5266 turns and 0:10:25. 20:23:04 !lg . 20:23:05 3270. gammafunk the Summoner (L10 DESu of Sif Muna), quit the game on Lair:3 on 2015-08-24 19:52:45, with 5184 points after 4839 turns and 0:30:43. 20:23:08 !lg amalloy 20:23:09 318. amalloy the Petrodigitator (L27 DDEE of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-08-10 21:21:34, with 13798693 points after 116934 turns and 1d+0:45:27. 20:23:20 well yes. if you always take a week-long break after every death you will ~never gkill yourself 20:23:20 !gkills prozacelf 20:23:21 75 kills by prozacelf's ghost: 2x njkz123, UglyThing, mhoghedin, coldwave, Tab, packetmantis, athros, ProzacElf, Talea, megrem, Mahasti, Merlin, zazu2006, tstbtto, Jabberwock, lordmilkman, oooop, tychotesla, Eleison, gibcount, Akello96, neil, guido, tpv, Cerepol, frobop, MorsRattus, PhoneixS, Baljet, vale, password, misbiopyy, talkingcatjazzcat, ToppBlackHatt, simulo, TheProvocateur, Ivo, LustyArg... 20:23:31 <_miek> !lg 20:23:31 470. miek the Martial Artist (L11 HuTm of Cheibriados), blasted by a gargoyle (stone arrow) on D:9 on 2015-08-01 22:54:17, with 7835 points after 12023 turns and 0:38:43. 20:23:34 <_miek> or longer 20:23:37 prozacelf is at least equal-opportunity 20:23:37 !gkills 20:23:38 12 kills by amalloy's ghost: ZBCMart, lordaltan, Action013, ScrapMettle, andrewdski, Impatience, creatorofgods, johnny133, LaNdMaStEr, DeadSlay, HawkPuma, Angmar 20:23:39 i'm an outlier, i've only died to my ghost once 20:23:49 0 times 20:23:52 what I'm talking about tends to happen for people with a lot of games 20:23:58 but it's pretty common 20:24:02 !gkills minmay 20:24:02 44 kills by minmay's ghost: 7x minmay, 2x Roarke, Promephix, Xenene, ystael, ronf, Promi, Xandrah, tstbtto, Jabberwock, Danei, Ferret, MarkFuKenni, Zeor, ruthinator, Slutbag, soupy, hooplah, BirdoPrey, nufah, geedmat, stevs, aTarkinC, Dynast, postmodern, tasonir, enigmoo, parabodrick, HangedMan, Tabstorm, Snack, yangabriel, Kogan, motorbit, Nomi, Xelif, Dauden 20:24:03 nah, i'm in my own list there 20:24:09 Prozacelf: i just listed my own 20:24:13 oh 20:24:40 in fact I'd say it's pretty rare for me to ever encounter my own ghost unless it's a game I played on the same day 20:24:55 gammafunk: well right, that's what i just said 20:25:04 someone else will have had a chance to kill it by then 20:25:05 my ghosts get a lot of kills because i'll frequently get a guy with good gear killed relatively early through my own stupidity 20:25:14 that's not really what you said, it's more what I said 20:25:20 i mean, the second thing i said 20:25:27 "well yes. if you always take a week-long break after every death you will ~never gkill yourself" 20:25:31 <|amethyst> and if you *do* get your own ghost after a significant amount of time, that means it has probably gotten lots of kills 20:25:51 <|amethyst> since people keep dying on its level 20:25:55 when do the ghosts generate? when you first see the level they died on? 20:26:04 <|amethyst> yes, on level-gen 20:26:15 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:19 <|amethyst> abyss and pan are a bit weird in that respect I imagine 20:26:21 that might also explain why i don't run into my own that often 20:26:21 amalloy: yeah I'm commenting on what's the the more dominant effect re: the first thing you said, and I think it's more about succession, but it would be neat to see some data to back it up 20:26:29 i play pretty slowly 20:26:44 bouncing back and forth between the game and irc and whatever else i've got going on 20:26:48 oh, I bet logicninja has a good gkills 20:26:53 !gkills logicninja 20:26:54 449 kills by logicninja's ghost: 77x LogicNinja, 6x aTarkinC, 3x TheProvocateur, 3x oshikia, 3x duckroller, 3x TacoSundae, 3x Zermako, 3x shugdite, 3x Herpes, 3x dialectric, 2x rzimodnar, 2x password, 2x SwordHunterGil, 2x dma3, 2x Someone4956, 2x superc, 2x Roarke, 2x mossagatemaggot, 2x tekoppen, 2x kekekela, 2x Froggeryz, 2x rjrrt, 2x Ascension, 2x Waterpls, 2x qoala, 2x towel, 2x guedzilla, 2x... 20:26:55 haha 20:26:56 yep 20:27:18 pretty much proof-positive that playing lots of games very quickly will get you top spot on your ghost kill list 20:27:47 heh 20:27:50 of course there's the correlation with playig games quickly and the fact that you're playing without regard to winrate (i.e. playing poorly or for speedrun) 20:28:12 and also dying early. if you die in orc:3 or whatever, starting a new game right away will not usually lead you to your own ghost 20:28:38 the succession effect seems like it ought to only have much impact in early D 20:28:52 well where are the vast majority of ghost kills anyhow? 20:28:59 they're not orc:3 20:29:08 yeah, deeper ghosts get fewer kills too 20:29:19 they're early, of course 20:29:22 since you're a lot better equipped to handle almost any ghost you run into 20:30:25 I remember spectating two players that encountered each other's ghosts 20:30:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:30:32 <|amethyst> dying faster also means leaving more ghosts 20:30:34 that was really something 20:30:41 <|amethyst> so there's a double effect 20:32:24 <|amethyst> BTW, we should probably fix ghosts being shaftable 20:32:41 I can't find that great quote where someone asks something like, "what's the most dangerous enemy in slime?" and it was maybe wheals who answered "logicninja ghosts" 20:32:50 ??logicninja[3 20:32:50 logicninja[3/6]: why are there two fire storm ghosts in slime 6 20:33:02 hahaha 20:33:06 <|amethyst> it messes up ctrl-o (because of an assumption I added when fixing a different ctrl-o bug) 20:33:29 ghosts are shaftable? 20:34:03 <|amethyst> %git a8f3a87 20:34:03 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-108-ga8f3a87: Be more careful with duplicate ghost annotations (rast) 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 8+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8f3a87e9d1d 20:35:23 <|amethyst> %git 8b1fb44 20:35:23 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-2-g8b1fb44: Let shafts work on flying monsters, remove save based on body weight 10(6 months ago, 5 files, 11+ 27-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8b1fb446bf6e 20:35:38 <|amethyst> oh, and the assumption was already false when I made it 20:35:54 <|amethyst> because I didn't realise that change made ghosts shaftable 20:36:10 <|amethyst> the only thing that prevented it before was their levitation 20:36:29 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:41 oh 20:38:47 -!- thromnambular has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:41:15 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:45:21 hey, second 0.17 commit even 20:45:50 wow, 6mo ago 20:45:52 %git 20:45:52 07Lasty02 * 0.17-a0-1718-g72dbe4d: Don't let thorn hunters place briars while confused 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/72dbe4d5c2fe 20:48:24 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:52:20 <|amethyst> yeah, we should be thinking about when we want to have release and tournament 20:52:23 <|amethyst> I know Lasty still had some plans for 0.17 20:56:16 what bout unified login plans? bumped? 21:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:11 bumped until someone has the time to head up that project 21:01:35 time and resources, I suppose, since setting up a server may be involved 21:04:25 -!- Foamed has quit [Client Quit] 21:14:04 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 21:14:36 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:15:15 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:21:50 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:30:25 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:04 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:39:14 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:40:23 -!- fbafelipe has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:59:12 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:29 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:50 <|amethyst> would swapping statue form and blade hands (in level and spellbook rarity, including starting book) break the former? 22:06:56 -!- joke_LA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:04 <|amethyst> or completely ruin the latter? 22:07:05 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:01 <|amethyst> (this is re the tavern thread on moving blade hands out of the Tm book, and in particular the observation that blade hands is such a first-order-optimal "local maximum" in part because it has no downsides) 22:09:26 <|amethyst> s/no/few/ 22:12:11 -!- joke_LA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:17:21 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 22:18:38 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:26 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:27:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:26 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:20 statue feels pretty balanced at its current level 22:32:40 there's the issue of it being worse than bladehands, a problem that dragon form shares as well 22:32:48 but perhaps the problem is bladehands is too strong 22:33:24 I know some others agree, but I'm not sure there's consensus on whether that really needs fixing 22:33:27 .cobbed 22:33:28 10. comborobin the Demonologist (L24 FoSu of Sif Muna), mangled by a death cob on Zot:1 on 2015-08-25 02:25:30, with 406461 points after 73540 turns and 4:50:41. 22:33:34 Lasty_: that was tabstorm, by the way 22:35:24 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 22:36:35 -!- joke_LA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:03 -!- Utis` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:12 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:48:10 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:05 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:13 -!- kroki has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:51 -!- joke_LA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:55 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:36 -!- Prozacelf has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 23:33:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:36:23 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:46 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:28 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:39:40 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:28 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 23:42:08 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:35 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:48:55 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:13 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:48 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]