00:03:24 !lg * br=wizlab recent !boring x=avg(xl) 00:03:24 195 games for * (br=wizlab recent !boring): avg(xl)=17.51 00:04:52 mean !lm ? 00:05:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06:06 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 00:06:07 no, want to see xl of dead chars 00:06:13 hence !boring etc 00:07:17 and I'd use br.enter if I was using lm, since otherwise I'd get an average over any milestone in the wizlab 00:09:36 true 00:11:21 -!- nitkulokki has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:20 Corinon (L27 GrFi) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 592 failed. (beam 'puff of flame', source 'tengu conjurer', item 'none'; has range -1) (Zig:19) 00:32:19 -!- broquaint has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:14 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:25 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:47 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:57:07 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:57:16 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:55 !tell MarvinPA make ghostly fire clouds simply ghostly clouds (or spectral clouds), make them specifically and only spawn spectres (no damage) 00:57:56 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:57:56 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 00:59:46 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Client Quit] 00:59:57 -!- riddler_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:01:26 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:31 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16.1-30-g34a7ffa 01:07:05 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [] 01:07:30 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 01:09:11 not sure them doing no damage is great 01:10:14 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:10:49 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:05 I think both is nice 01:12:14 it puts really intense positioning pressure on you 01:13:30 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:10 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16.1-30-g34a7ffa (34) 01:18:02 -!- melenkuri has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:09 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1368-g6ab37f2 (34) 01:25:01 -!- mmazing has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:19 [Nothing Quivered] Shows instead of What's Currently Quivered 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9771 by bcadren 01:47:21 -!- TonyMeatballs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47:47 -!- Idolo has quit [] 01:52:35 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1368-g6ab37f2 01:53:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:06:31 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 02:06:42 |amethyst: is there any monitoring infrastructure set up for cszo et al? 02:07:13 |amethyst: I'm looking into doing something more serious for CPO, wondering if it's worth having a common service for all official servers 02:07:48 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:09:12 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 02:11:49 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:00 there were 150k games played in march: https://shalott.org/graphs/b7e8085ffeffc415ed135479d672ffad58296d3c.html 02:15:52 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:04 is cblink going to be nerfed? 02:16:43 -!- nitku is now known as nitkulokki 02:17:20 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:19:31 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:26:22 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:59 a game of dcss is played every minute 02:28:29 -!- TMTurtle has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:29:05 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:30:06 -!- Vizer_ is now known as Vizer 02:31:49 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:35 is it a bug that with arrow autopickup turned off and plain arrows in inventory, it no longer will autopickup plain arrows? 02:39:57 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:40:56 -!- mnoleg69reagan42 has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:42:19 Autopickup of missiles isn't working right 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9772 by Berder 02:47:47 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:30 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:41 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1368-g6ab37f2 03:00:01 -!- halberd has left ##crawl-dev 03:01:09 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 03:06:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:10:22 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:28 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16.1-30-g34a7ffa 03:26:21 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:26:49 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:38:29 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:44:44 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:26 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:49:36 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:36 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:02:00 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:06:35 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:11 -!- DrStalker has quit [] 04:35:43 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:50 -!- murphy_slaw has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:48:29 -!- sylnt has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:48:47 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:49:01 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:51:17 -!- nitkulokki_alt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:02:06 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:11:46 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:13:16 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:14:13 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:15:15 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:24 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:22:05 -!- WhiteShark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:23:14 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 05:41:38 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:27 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:10 -!- domiryuu has quit [Client Quit] 05:58:58 -!- copt has quit [] 06:04:00 -!- xcourier has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:05:00 -!- xcourier has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:41 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:46 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:23 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:12:56 -!- Ququman has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:13:23 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:11 -!- Kramin has left ##crawl-dev 06:19:36 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:20:21 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:25:57 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:27 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:05 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:04:00 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:16 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:55 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:12:41 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:47 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 07:15:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:26:46 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:59 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:15 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:31:06 "Labyrinths are much better than most or all of the other portal vaults in two ways: they are flavorful and they are balanced. Hunger is a well-defined threat that affects powerful and weak characters equally" --minmay, circa 2011 07:35:29 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:03 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1369-g44f1542: Tweak the Lehudib wizlab monster lists 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 25+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/44f1542a35ec 07:40:03 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1370-g092858d: Remove the obsolete WizLab planning section 10(60 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 48-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/092858d3ad98 07:42:08 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 08:04:15 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:41 i think they're good because the loot is reliably great 08:07:48 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 08:08:21 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 08:09:11 -!- nago has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:52 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:15:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:22:30 placing loot is easy to do without even having a portal or any kind of significant map 08:22:43 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:06 the portal type only works if the map is both fun to play through and worth the risk 08:32:17 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 08:44:09 -!- shklvsk has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:44:37 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:55 ??Buzzell 08:44:55 Buzzell[1/1]: Bot for CBZZ - http://crawl.buzz - NJ, USA 08:45:17 ??Eksell 08:45:17 Eksell[1/1]: The cxc announcement bot, which uses | as a prefix. 08:53:34 -!- aarujn has quit [Quit: aarujn] 08:56:03 will someone fix the issue with ecumenical altars rolling GOD_NO_GOD? 08:56:18 I provided a patch earlier today and amalloy_ suggested an alternate implementation 08:56:22 both one line 08:58:00 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:58:40 chequers: it'll come, don't worry 08:58:53 ??amulet of resist corrosion 08:58:54 resist corrosion[1/1]: Provides a 50% save against {corrosion} from {acid}, and halves damage (which itself makes the corrosion less likely). Available as an amulet, on some randarts, or when quaffing potion of resistance. You will still get corroded, but significantly less. 08:58:59 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:59:10 why the hell is it only 50% 08:59:44 that's all players deserve 08:59:55 because they never behave 09:00:40 rMut is 90% 09:00:58 rPois is I think either 90% or 66%, and poison is an order of magnitude less threatening than acid 09:01:40 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 09:02:30 ??ring of poison resistance 09:02:30 I don't have a page labeled ring_of_poison_resistance in my learndb. 09:02:35 ??poison resistance 09:02:36 poison resistance[1/2]: Reduces poison direct damage (e.g. venom bolt) by 66%, prevents poisoning and curare 66% of the time, downgrades wasp/hornet effect from para to slow to nothing. Also lets you eat poisonous chunks and walk safely through poison / meph clouds. 09:02:56 congrats 09:03:18 because of how hilariously useless rCorr is at actually preventing corrosion, I managed to splat a character who had just completely curbstomped the hells and tomb 09:03:37 gammafunk: <3 09:03:43 I'm going to guess if I look at that ttyrec/morgue 09:03:59 I'm going to see a reason very much *different* than "rCorr doesn't work" 09:04:05 (part of it was bad play and another part of it was shitty as fuck luck) 09:04:23 rLuck > rCorr 09:04:41 (the lethal blow was an azure jelly hitting me through 23 EV and 32 SV and having the ice brand hit for as much damage as possible) 09:06:12 is blink frog damage resisted by ac/ev? 09:06:19 yes 09:06:39 (but seriously, why the hell is rCorr only 50% resist anyways, especially when 2 or 3 stacks are enough to severely cripple a melee character) 09:08:23 Lightli: I can see that one might discuss whether 50% is good or not, but you cannot deny that 50% reduction is significant. 09:08:31 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:08:38 I mean it's better than 0% 09:08:54 hrm 09:09:04 well if it's only a little better than 0% 09:09:14 we certainly don't have to change it from like 50% to 66% 09:09:23 because 16% would *really* be nothing 09:09:49 but at this point I'd put corrosion with rCorr as still more dangerous higher than Torment with rN+++, fire storm with rF+++, glaciate with rC+++, chain lightning with rElec, poison arrow with rpois, and even hellfire/smitign 09:09:51 *smiting 09:10:53 For example, rCorr=100% would trivialise a whole branch, so that's not good. I am not convinced that 50% is necessarily too weak. Just like torment, I like that some things cannot be fully resisted. Players must die from something, after all. 09:11:31 the irony is that torment CAN be fully resisted 09:11:59 but not with rN 09:12:00 a few games ago I even did Tartarus for my third rune with the Crown of Eternal Torment 09:12:07 ah, I see 09:12:27 This is a really good testimonial for corrosion as a successful mechanic. 09:12:41 "My character had extended loot and corrosion still mattered, when nothing else would have!" 09:13:06 I sleptwalked through Tomb and still got murdered in the slime pits 09:13:32 and the hells 09:13:35 you played poorly and died, and the problem is? 09:14:05 we all make gameplay mistakes and die sometimes 09:14:07 yeah 09:14:18 FWIW, I think Crown of Eternal Torment leaves you with way too much HP. It should be ~50% hp. I don't want it being an actually good item :p 09:14:20 the death was entirely my fault to begin with 09:14:29 ??crown of eternal torment 09:14:29 crown of eternal torment[1/1]: +3 hat (sInv, rN+++, Curse, torment immunity). Gives -20% mhp while worn. Suggestion: don't. 09:15:03 I think it's alright, since it's just such a rare item 09:15:07 the issue is that fire, cold, lightning, poison, torment, and hellfire all don't directly fuck over your defense AND offense in addition to doing damage 09:15:47 not really an issue, because with rcorr the acid damage isn't significant 09:15:49 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:16:28 Lightli: I mean this with sincerity, not irony: everything you're saying about rCorr convinces me that it's perfect as it is 09:16:38 (and about corrosion) 09:18:23 eh, out of masochism I can think of one issue regarding corrosion 09:18:32 it's basically non-existent in extended outside of slime :v 09:19:09 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:19:26 (it probably didn't help that acid damage recently got buffed) 09:19:35 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=2553e725d5b88a412c81c0a6c1591502d70a9c25 09:19:52 I think there are some efforts to gradually increase the presence outside slime -- rust devils, shard shrikes, liches and reavers with corrosive bolt, etc. 09:20:03 what shrikes?! 09:20:28 er, caustic shrikes 09:20:32 :cough: 09:21:01 I said in extended; only rust devils really employ it there in significant numbers (liches are too rare and random for it to be a significant concern regarding them) 09:21:02 !shrikekills 09:21:03 212. DreamWalker the Eclecticist (L21 VpEE of Dithmenos), splashed by a caustic shrike's acid on Depths:2 (hangedman_box_tower) on 2015-06-12 02:05:51, with 393025 points after 107933 turns and 15:15:27. 09:21:03 Lightli: the commit you reference isn't a direct buff to acid damage. It decreases the chances of a fully-armoured character getting corroded 09:21:28 oh 09:21:33 I thought it increased the chance :v 09:21:46 one thing that is pretty harsh is rust devil + hell effect petr 09:21:50 only for octopodes, ogres, and trolls 09:22:05 (I was playing a troll) 09:22:07 !lg * depths s=ikiller o=% 09:22:07 5703 games for * (depths): a fire drake (shapeshifter), a shark (shapeshifter), Irphiuja the pandemonium lord, posthumous revenge, a storm dragon (illusionary), Quazifuji's ghost, a white draconian zealot, a spriggan enchanter, a white draconian annihilator, a glaive of flaming, Shraum the pandemonium lord, Cilasog the pandemonium lord, nago's ghost, a red draconian annihilator, Pecaeck, an orc wa... 09:22:15 !lg * depths s=ikiller o=-% 09:22:16 5703 games for * (depths): a fire drake (shapeshifter), a shark (shapeshifter), Irphiuja the pandemonium lord, posthumous revenge, a storm dragon (illusionary), Quazifuji's ghost, a white draconian zealot, a spriggan enchanter, a white draconian annihilator, a glaive of flaming, Shraum the pandemonium lord, Cilasog the pandemonium lord, nago's ghost, a red draconian annihilator, Pecaeck, an orc wa... 09:22:44 blerg, my sequell-fu is weak. 09:22:51 How do I get a list of top killers? 09:22:54 !lg * depths s=ikiller% 09:22:55 5703 games for * (depths): 330x a stone giant (5.79%), 263x the Enchantress (4.61%), 225x a fire giant (3.95%), 219x a lich (3.84%), 207x a deep troll (3.63%), 197x a frost giant (3.45%), 187x an ettin (3.28%), 159x a deep troll earth mage (2.79%), 157x a tengu reaver (2.75%), 155x a caustic shrike (2.72%), 155x (2.72%), 142x a titan (2.49%), 141x a spriggan berserker (2.47%), 129x an octopode cru... 09:23:06 thanks 09:23:07 we need acid effects on vomit skulls and LSDemons to prevent "sleepwalking tomb" and "curbstomping hell", respectively 09:23:37 yeah just make all of extended corrosion themed 09:23:37 I unironically support this 09:23:39 If we include all the shrikekills, they go up to #5, right above deep trolls 09:24:10 fr: hellacid 09:24:29 well, i think if shrikes appeared at the freequency that giants did they would have as many kills as giants 09:24:43 probably true 09:24:56 !lg lightli 09:24:57 3151. darkli the Wrestler (L27 TrFi of The Shining One), mangled by an azure jelly (created by the royal jelly) on Slime:5 (dissolution_awaits) on 2015-06-12 12:56:49, with 809338 points after 65160 turns and 2:19:14. 09:24:57 The enchantress's band has a pretty respectable showing 09:25:01 !lg lightli -tv:<2 09:25:01 3151. darkli, XL27 TrFi, T:65160 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 09:25:25 DrKe: most of it was bad play (I should have gone up the stairs much earlier), although the actual death itself was due to a really unlucky hit 09:25:28 !lg * depths / ikiller~~caustic 09:25:28 163/5703 games for * (depths): N=163/5703 (2.86%) 09:25:34 !lg greaterplayers depths / ikiller~~caustic 09:25:36 12/443 games for greaterplayers (depths): N=12/443 (2.71%) 09:25:52 (unresistable like hellfire, reduces EV and SH in addition to AC and melee slaying) 09:26:02 i think external TRJ is harder than a lot of extended 09:26:02 lol 09:26:19 yeah 09:26:38 well as melee 09:26:40 not with like fstorm 09:26:46 or tornado 09:26:48 doesn't help that it actively flees through the slimes it makes 09:26:58 exernal TRJ sounds like a skin care regimen 09:27:08 topical TRJ 09:27:19 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:44 I think of it as more like external TMJ, which would be a fairly serious medical condition 09:28:00 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:20 Lasty_: imo eternal torment is still bad to use at -20% hp, but i would agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be actually good 09:33:39 (and for that reason i think it should also not exist) 09:34:12 MarvinPA: as it is it's not a good idea outside of Tartarus and Tomb 09:34:16 give chei a maxhp boost so all badplayers will combine the two 09:35:38 MarvinPA: player trap or no-brainer? Do you think it'd be hopeless to try finding a sweet spot for the crown? (I have absolutely no opinion on the matter, just curious.) 09:35:39 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:05 as it is it's circumstancially useful in one or two places and a horrible death trap elsewhere 09:36:21 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:09 that's probably too manichaean (spelling?) to make it work, agreed 09:40:00 it was originally -35% max HP 09:41:14 MarvinPA: my first choice would be doesn't exist, my second is "this item is terrible and will be a death trap for players who refuse to handle torment normally" 09:41:49 put it back to -35% max HP then 09:41:53 i think it's pretty much already the second but yeah i would basically agree there 09:42:04 laugh when someone wears it as a spriggan and gets 2-shot by hellfire 09:42:08 Lightli: I'm not going to have a tug of war MPA over the exact value :p 09:43:06 Any opinions on the banishment thing? My proposal was deliberately simple to finally move on with this. Myself, I am quite unhappy with late banishments and would like to make the relevant. 09:43:39 what banishment thing out of curiosity 09:43:48 posted to c-r-d yesterday 09:43:54 ??c-r-d 09:43:54 c-r-d[1/2]: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.crawl.devel 09:44:08 later/deeper banishments should send you Abyss:2/3 not Abyss:1. 09:44:56 hard to come up with a really good measure for depth/threat, so I opted for something extremely simple 09:45:21 dpeg_: I'm fine w/ it. I'd vote that the banisher determines how deep you're banished, not anything else. I'd also suggest that the rune should be placed (1|2) levels deeper than whichever level you're banished to. 09:45:48 Otherwise rune hunters will seek to get banished by a monster that sends them to Abyss:3 instead of walking into an Abyss portal 09:47:13 also I now want vomit skulls to be a thing in crypt 09:47:14 congrats 09:47:33 weren't those already added and removed 09:48:24 won't that be confusing though lasty 09:48:28 since some people just sit on a:3 forever 09:48:37 and it's already rare there 09:48:55 so if you aren't familiar with the mechanic you will just sit there forever 09:49:00 ^ 09:49:46 Lasty_: ok, thx 09:49:51 DrKe: we'd want to make it clear what was happening, yeah 09:50:28 Do a pan-style "you sense the presence of a rune" message when there is one, and a second "no rune" message otherwise 09:50:32 "This piece of the Abyss does not contain a rune." 09:50:40 something like that, yes 09:50:46 yes some flavorful message 09:50:52 or just put the damn rune only on A:5, no questions asked? 09:51:00 gotta make them work for it :) 09:51:07 dpeg_: also fine, tho it makes the rune much more of a deathtrap 09:51:23 Lasty_: true, but it's only fun if a player loses a life 09:51:41 haha 09:52:02 not a big fan of A:5 09:52:07 A:5 is a real slog 09:52:13 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:52:22 * dpeg_ only ever got to A:4 09:52:27 -!- Icerose is now known as SilverIvy 09:52:34 !lg * rune=abyssal s=place 09:52:34 Unknown field: rune 09:52:38 !lm * rune=abyssal s=place 09:52:39 20366 milestones for * (rune=abyssal): 7902x Abyss:3, 6962x Abyss, 3230x Abyss:4, 2270x Abyss:5, 2x Abyss:2 09:53:01 !lm * rune=abyssal !lugonu s=place 09:53:01 19611 milestones for * (rune=abyssal !lugonu): 7554x Abyss:3, 6715x Abyss, 3118x Abyss:4, 2222x Abyss:5, 2x Abyss:2 09:53:18 who are these batshit insane 2222 people 09:53:31 !lm . rune=abyssal s=place 09:53:32 67 milestones for DrKe (rune=abyssal): 26x Abyss:4, 24x Abyss:3, 17x Abyss:5 09:54:09 !lm . rune=abyssal s=place 09:54:09 19 milestones for Lasty_ (rune=abyssal): 18x Abyss:3, Abyss:4 09:54:26 See? Insane. You only won the tournament because of meleebug 09:55:10 -!- BOTBrad has quit [] 09:55:27 i have to play to my strengths re: insanity 09:55:54 gammafunk: fine with "Abyss rune is at least one level deeper than Abyss arriving depth"? (The only effect of that would be banishment to A:3 means you'll only get a rune on A:4 or A:5) 09:56:06 DrKe: insanity is a virtue 09:56:12 it doesn't seem too bad I guess 09:56:36 I mean, to Lasty_'s original point, players will still seek to get banished 09:56:52 since it's once less level to traverse 09:57:10 it's a bit awkward overall, I guess 09:57:24 if we really want to address that: banishment gives you a rune-less Abyss. Need to enter voluntarily to find a rune. 09:57:34 well, it is somewhat inconvenient to get banished by a monster 09:57:38 personally i wouldnt bother with that 09:58:15 i suppose if it was convenient to do so i would 09:58:18 yeah, it's certainly not trivial unless you try to park a monster wielding distortion 09:58:34 define voluntarily 09:58:43 if i want to enter abyss by constantly unwielding distortion it's not voluntary 09:59:01 if i unwield a distortion weapon because i don't want to use it it probably isn't voluntary 09:59:05 ditto miscasting tlocs 09:59:19 err, s/not// for the first one 10:00:00 yeah i don't like the idea that involuntary abyss doesn't yield a rune 10:00:13 yeah dpeg's rune-less abyss would break that speedrun tactic, but it's not exactly something we want to encourage 10:00:34 finding the rune to get out of abyss is a good mechanic imo 10:00:38 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:00:45 sure, there's that aspect 10:01:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:01:05 i mean, disto weapons aside 10:01:29 if you happen to get banished i think it's good to be encouraged to get the rune now rather than later 10:01:35 if its a reasonable proposition 10:04:04 -!- Chance672 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:31 I guess the rune at least one level deeper thing is not too horrible, but I could be wrong 10:04:44 it could be xxx-horrible 10:04:52 !lm . rune noun=abyssal 10:04:53 15. [2015-01-31 03:30:05] gammafunk the Demonologist (L22 HESu of Sif Muna) found an abyssal rune of Zot on turn 30912. (Abyss:3) 10:05:12 been a while since I even got it 10:05:45 slime is always *so* *close* 10:05:55 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:55 I do think being banished to the same level as the rune would be a bit silly -- you could get banished within LOS of the rune. 10:10:21 Lasty_: yes, in view of exit is okay, in view of rune not 10:10:47 changing rune placement depending on how you get banished seems not great to me 10:10:48 however, this could be addressed by asking for a new Abyss stage (however this is called, on the same level) 10:19:10 can't you just veo any abyss that starts with the rune in view? 10:19:12 veto* 10:19:27 or: within x tiles? 10:21:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:09 ontoclasm1: might suffice. 10:24:20 i guess it's hardly elegant 10:24:43 I really don't want to lose better banishments to rune shenanigans -- I'll take anything to get midgame characters to A:2/3 :) 10:25:55 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:33 why are you so convinced a2/a3 are significantly worse than a1 10:26:49 I am not, but it is undoubtedly a step in the right direction. 10:26:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:26:54 a5 flat out murders you 10:27:06 apart from that i don't really care which level i'm on 10:27:10 I wouldn't mind having Zot:5 banishment put players in A:5, but in order to achieve something, I don't propose that. 10:28:01 I suppose another way to do it would be to have all banishment send you to Abyss 1, but scale the abyss spawn rates based on the power of the banisher 10:28:49 Lasty_: this is harder to understand for players. If A:2 etc. aren't hard enough, we can make them harder. 10:30:17 the stuff that a1 spawns is just as nasty as all other floors, the slightly increased spawn rates just don't compensate for lower levels having more exits (+ the rune on 3-4, especially if it's a vault you recognize from afar) 10:30:38 that is with the exception of 5 which is just brutal 10:30:58 yeah, changing the spawn tables would be nice 10:31:36 more slow melee stuff on A:1, more fast/ranged/castery stuff as you go down 10:32:24 chequers: there's a random_god function 10:33:00 it also prevents jiyva from being chosen if j's dead (i'm not sure if ecumenical altars do that right now) 10:33:11 kvaak: well, all of this can be changed 10:33:16 yes 10:33:28 for example, by removing chaff as depth goes up 10:39:50 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:41:49 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:46:03 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:48:34 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:30 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:30 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Changing host] 10:51:30 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:08:11 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:11:16 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:11:28 -!- BanMido_ is now known as BanMido 11:14:39 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:15:11 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:23:35 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:24:17 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:25 -!- BanMido has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:56 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:37:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:00 -!- BanMido has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:15 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:42:15 -!- omniscientist has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:31 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:03 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:32 -!- radinms has quit [] 11:52:34 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:51 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:54 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:58:39 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:31 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:31 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:01:04 -!- tcsc has quit [Client Quit] 12:05:48 -!- rophy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:38 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:02 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:12:15 -!- Bcadren_ is now known as Bcadren 12:15:11 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:15:14 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:19:47 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:58 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:27:50 -!- muravey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:39 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 12:38:23 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:10 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:25 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:44:26 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:42 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:47:41 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 12:51:17 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 12:56:16 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:04:51 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1370-g092858d (34) 13:14:55 -!- shklvsk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:15:32 -!- Menche is now known as Menche|deminewt 13:21:44 -!- aarujn has quit [Quit: aarujn] 13:21:54 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 13:29:48 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:30:19 what status/whatever marks stormcallers etc. that are casting 13:31:39 (chanting fire storm) 13:34:01 -!- shklvsk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:34:07 -!- bmfx is now known as Blasphemer_TF 13:34:09 -!- Blasphemer_TF has quit [Quit: Changing server] 13:34:09 i mean codewise 13:34:42 like can i call some function to check if a monster is in that state 13:34:46 (so i can glue an icon to it) 13:36:05 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:35 <|amethyst> for a *monster* it would be has_ench(ENCH_CHANT_FIRE_STORM) 13:37:37 <|amethyst> but 13:37:47 <|amethyst> you have a monster_info instead 13:37:59 <|amethyst> aha 13:38:00 mons.is(MB_CHANT_FIRE_STORM) i think? 13:38:05 <|amethyst> is(MB_CHANT_FIRE_STORM) yeah 13:38:19 <|amethyst> also is(MB_CHANT_WORD_OF_ENTROPY) and is(MB_WORD_OF_RECALL) 13:38:23 tilepick.cc 2847 does all that stuff 13:38:57 <|amethyst> ah, there's even already one for recall 13:39:06 yeah, recall has one 13:39:18 i figured i could just make a more generic icon and use it for all three 13:39:27 <|amethyst> I was kind of thinking 13:39:33 <|amethyst> the same icon but in three different colours 13:39:40 that works too 13:39:42 <|amethyst> or otherwise three visual variants 13:40:44 <|amethyst> also, maybe we should generalise this so there's one ENCH_CHANTING that has as its degree (or something) the spell being chanted 13:41:02 <|amethyst> would mean monster_info would need a new member and/or accessor 13:47:11 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:50:15 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:50:56 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:10 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:11 re the earlier rcorr discussion 13:53:14 %git 2d7ccdc89dce672052a7a32b8a5f4e18b89a3a74 13:53:14 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-2278-g2d7ccdc: Reduce rCorr corrosion chance reduction 10(11 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d7ccdc89dce 13:53:24 reduced it from 90% to 50% 13:53:28 I'd initially suggested 66% 13:56:32 -!- Hanyuu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:56:33 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [] 13:56:41 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:57:56 checking the logs, the goal was to (a) make rCorr less of a silver bullet / immunity effect (now that corr isn't a permanent penalty like malmut), and (b) encourage balancing slime without the assumption that the player has rcorr (so that it's do-able without) 13:58:24 I also noted that I considered pushing it to 66% but, in testing, it seemed perfectly strong at 50% 13:58:59 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 13:59:18 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:00:58 Honestly, 50% seems fine to me 14:01:07 I like corrosion being a real threat 14:04:23 So, pointless unrands: I'd like to do something with ratskin cloak. Currently I'm leaning towards it having a chance to spawn meph (or pois?) clouds on adjacent monsters that hit you, similar to the DS mutation. Alternately, evokable poisonous cloud, centered on the player. 14:04:43 Tho the latter is pretty nuts 14:06:11 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:22 lasty: not a fan of 'spawn rats on hit'? 14:06:34 *on being hit (sometimes) 14:06:52 I think it might be too good 14:07:13 it would make it really easy to escape . . . 14:07:25 on the other hand, maybe that's fine. The cloak is otherwise pretty awful. 14:07:35 enslave rat 14:07:40 it's like enslave but only works on rats 14:07:45 haha 14:07:57 but what about the players that scum D:1 for a rat army?>????? 14:08:07 "sometimes spawn rats on hit" sounds considerably less useful for escaping than just casting sputterflies on demand or something 14:08:22 evocable cloud of rats 14:08:25 well you have to find and cast sputterflies first 14:08:31 no more evocables! no more abilities!!! 14:08:34 MarvinPA: but you get them without taking any actions, which is pretty strong 14:08:50 Just give it +Twstr and call it a day 14:08:55 anyway also spawn rats on hit is boring imo 14:09:14 +Ratstr 14:09:18 *rat 14:09:21 it's like +twstr but the empty squares are filled with rats 14:09:25 -!- mmazing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:32 Summons a twister that constantly spawns rats around it. The rats are not immune to the twister. 14:09:37 actually *rat sounds like a new badform 14:10:02 MarvinPA: do you have a preferred solution to the Ratskin Cloak Problem? 14:10:06 give it rRot, then everyone will think its super good and op 14:10:09 haha 14:11:32 idk, spawning rats is... can occasionally get some easier escapes, can occasionally waste some enemy turns and stab some guys, maybe you catch the plague from all the rats that are apparently crawling over your back (!?)... (that last one is not a mechanical suggestion) 14:13:01 I guess it's not mega exciting but it's probably more interesting than rrot. :) 14:13:06 hmm maybe rRot is actually a serious suggestion??? in that it gives it a unique thing without it really having a big gimmicky gimmick (which i don't especially think it needs) 14:13:15 idk 14:13:25 I will not be heartbroken no matter what happens. 14:13:38 the easier escapes thing would be ~90% of the utility of spawning rats 14:13:38 cloak of rats, cloak of rrot, cloak of farts, cloak of [removed], w/e. 14:13:51 . . . removal does seem like a pretty good option 14:13:52 Lasty_: idk, I think the wasted actions & free stabs would come up more often 14:14:16 (wasted action = attacked a rat) 14:14:22 Well, I suppose the wasted actions is kind of the same thing as the easy escapes -- monsters hitting rats instead of you 14:14:32 but I don't think the stabbing would be a big deal 14:14:46 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:15:12 btw, MPA, PleasingFungus: have you heard my plans for ranged overhaul, and if so, do you have thoughts on whether it's a good diea? 14:15:21 s/diea/idea/ 14:16:10 my feeling on ranged reform is that ranged weapons do not belong in players hands in crawl. that said: your reform was the always-mulching thing, or? 14:16:27 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/chant.png 14:17:05 squish it a little vertically and it'll be more clear that they're playing terrifying CDs at you 14:17:18 once the track ends, the spell goes off. 14:18:50 my other idea was a musical note 14:19:15 PleasingFungus: 1) always mulch; 2) make launchers an equip slot and allow (f)iring them while a weapon is wielded, but keep them respecting shields; 3) remove most passive-benefit traits from randart launchers or remove randart launchers. 14:19:37 Oh, and though using always mulch, don't significantly or at all increase ammo availability from the present case. 14:20:23 ah, didn't know that last. 14:20:37 so this is essentially trying to kill the primary ranged character? 14:20:53 The idea being that most characters would have a launcher (unless they're going for Throwing) and that it would be a limited-use powerful option 14:20:56 Yes, more or less 14:21:39 More characters will use ranged, but only trog/oka worshippers have a prayer of using it primarily 14:21:52 <|amethyst> 4) make them not OBJ_WEAPONS 14:22:17 good point 14:22:22 <|amethyst> would simplify the code a lot to do that once they take a separate inventory slot 14:22:27 Lasty_: do we need three different skills for this role? four counting throwing? 14:22:37 oh, I didn't actually ping MarvinPA. MarvinPA: ^ 14:22:50 PleasingFungus: no, probably not. I was thinking just "launchers" might be the way to go 14:23:00 with sling, bow, longbow, and crossbow as the only options 14:23:06 'ranged' ('but not magic') 14:23:16 And not evo :p 14:23:27 <|amethyst> "Marksdwarfship" 14:23:29 and not throwing, if we're not folding that in 14:23:46 <|amethyst> "shooting" 14:23:51 mm. how would you differentiate those four weapons? sling is 1h, xbow is slow, bow and lbow...? 14:24:30 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:25:54 PleasingFungus: sling is 1h, xbow is slow/very high damage, bow is 2h, lbow is 2h & high damage but a rare find. 14:26:03 under that scheme, we'd expect late-game players to use longbows or crossbows 14:26:22 <|amethyst> and darts? 14:26:22 There could still be ammo differentiation as well to motivate choices 14:26:25 <|amethyst> err 14:26:26 <|amethyst> needles? 14:26:33 <|amethyst> blowguns, that's the word 14:26:36 |amethyst: six classes of darts, going by metric units 14:26:41 I would be strongly tempted to remove longbows and make xbows rarer 14:26:43 <|amethyst> should that keep using throwing? 14:26:49 PleasingFungus: fine w/ that too 14:26:59 I'd switch blowguns to use launchers skill 14:27:31 It might also be worth nerfing poison darts somehow, because they're usually usable pre-Lair, and wreck everything 14:27:51 maybe tie the amount they poison the target to skill or to accuracy or something 14:27:54 <|amethyst> well, for one poison and curare are the two needle brands that don't use throwing skill to determine the effect 14:27:58 <|amethyst> yeah 14:28:21 No more free blowgun rides 14:28:26 Lasty_: I was saying that but people yelled at me 14:28:28 months ago 14:28:38 I agree with you months ago 14:28:40 my life is very hard and I'm persecuted all the time. it's fucked up. 14:28:44 and will probably get yelled at 14:28:59 * |amethyst tempts PleasingFungus in the desert. 14:29:09 I know rast is not a fan of these plans (hey rast!) 14:29:14 it's probably not constructive for me to refer to 'people presenting reasons why I'm wrong' as 'people yelling at me', but, well, that's just a sign of how enlightened I am. 14:29:50 So I get the sense that |amethyst and PleasingFungus are reasonably on-board with this scheme? 14:30:27 I've started cleaning up the always-mulch branch in order to use it to test this idea 14:30:28 <|amethyst> sounds reasonable, yes 14:30:37 some launchers could have different ranges 14:30:46 I'm retired, and thus will stand in the way of nothing. 14:30:59 I am practicing my zen. 14:31:03 making curare and poison needles use throwing skill and be a more like the other needles sounds like a good thing in the current system 14:31:10 be a bit more* 14:31:11 MarvinPA: also true 14:31:26 <|amethyst> it would be nice if people who picked up a blowgun early could get *some* use out of it 14:32:00 |amethyst: agreed -- I wouldn't want to nerf it completely into the ground 14:32:00 yeah, possible the scaling could be more forgiving for them 14:32:03 <|amethyst> but I guess that's an inherent conflict with "keep an emergency blowgun" 14:32:05 possibly* 14:32:25 I'd gladly yell at PF on demand but unfortunately random shadow traps were removed so I can't come up with a good reason to do so 14:32:39 you could yell at me about the current state of ranged weapons, which is essentially my fault 14:32:43 <|amethyst> could check both skill and HD in such a way that low-HD with 0 skill is about the same as currently 14:33:11 apparently needles of slowing exist, those could probably be more forgiving too i guess 14:33:13 PleasingFungus: I don't know how much blame you can really take for that one. The real problems have been there since the beginning, as I understand it 14:33:23 v0v 14:33:32 no good, I've never liked ranged weapons 14:33:35 MarvinPA: remember needles of sickness 14:33:38 At least, according to my conception of the real problems 14:33:51 <|amethyst> FR: needles of retching 14:34:09 <|amethyst> I guess that's the same as slowing 14:34:40 fr: half the effect of ev and ac 14:35:01 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 14:36:07 the essential problem with poison needles is: there's a limited space of game in which poison is really good, somewhere from early-mid. in most of that section of game, the player's skill is so going to be so low (even if they focus on whatever skill governs needles) that a later character will be able to trivially match or surpass it without any serious (proportionate) xp investment. so, if... 14:36:09 ...you make poison needles strong with approx 0 skill (what players will have early), we have the current situation; if you don't, they're not usable until you're nearly out of the section of the game at which they'd be relevant at all. 14:36:39 possibly scaling by hd would help; I'm not sure how exactly that would work. 14:38:17 well it could just have a really low plateau 14:38:33 where skill over like... 8 doesn't do much/anything 14:38:50 how would that help 14:39:30 it's worth training early on but later, when 8 levels is trivial, poison is not a big deal so it's not a big deal that it's trivial 14:39:59 vis: magic dart power 14:40:19 I think there's room to make poison needles less effective at the beginning at zero skill, reward players who invest a modest amount with current-level needles (which are amazing) and then allow heavy investment to scale poison needles up past their current quality. 14:40:33 I guess you'd want poison needles to scale up fast with little investment, yeah 14:40:40 Right now the extra skill won't be wasted anyway, since there's throwing; in the proposed revision, it won't be wasted because launcher skill 14:41:02 what artifact launchers would be kept? 14:41:03 are you keeping ammo brands? 14:41:57 what's wrong with ranged weapons anyways (is it the fact that they're ranged) 14:42:31 PleasingFungus: I was thinking it'd be nice to keep most of the existing brands but make them unique to each launcher, e.g. sling has steel and flaming, bow has poison and dispersal, bolt has penetrating and silver, or something like that. I haven't considered the distribution very carefully. 14:42:48 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:43:07 steel and exploding would be better for sling, actually. Maybe remove flaming/freezing brands, since they're a lot like wands. 14:43:13 ok. 14:43:33 <|amethyst> or remove them because launchers have them 14:43:38 Lightli: currently, ranged is like melee, but more boring. 14:44:00 and more fiddly. 14:44:03 Lightli: I haven't given any consideration to which launchers would be kept; what's wrong with ranged is that it's exceptionally powerful in a boring way (polearms with reaching 8) and tedious (ammo collection). Removing ammo collection doesn't fix the other problem. 14:44:14 |amethyst: that too 14:45:15 <|amethyst> anyway, I don't think any of the unrand launchers really need to go 14:46:12 what would happen to the ranged-start backgrounds (i.e. hunter and arcane marksman; assassin would still fit a niche) 14:46:21 <|amethyst> piercer could even keep its passive, since that's a negative 14:47:08 <|amethyst> I'd merge hunter and assassin, and possibly restrict crossbow choice if you want it to be rare 14:47:16 ditto 14:47:23 possibly remove bow as an option as well 14:47:29 depending on how the balance feels 14:47:40 <|amethyst> or reduce early arrow loot 14:47:42 being able to choose 1 or 2h might be good or might be unnecessary 14:48:08 I liked how Assassin was the non-magic stealth character 14:48:44 *like 14:48:53 We could start hunters w/ stealth and it'd be on-flavor. That said, training stealth is easy and cheap. 14:49:00 i guess my question is: who is going to want ranged now 14:49:11 <|amethyst> I think the idea is, everybody 14:49:15 <|amethyst> since you don't have to swap to it 14:49:22 ontoclasm1: my guess is "everyone who doesn't go conjurations" will probably want it to some degree 14:49:32 and how much of a degree is, hopefully, an interesting choice 14:49:35 i mean, who is going to want to go heavy into ranged 14:49:37 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 14:49:42 <|amethyst> even if I have conjurations, why wouldn't I carry a sling? 14:49:50 |amethyst: true 14:49:51 if you have 20 in maces why invest in bows when you can just mash everything anyway 14:50:13 ontoclasm1: I think the point of this is making it so going ranged as a primary form of offense will no longer be doable 14:50:13 <|amethyst> ontoclasm1: so you can mash things a few turns earlier 14:50:15 presumably so that you can handle dangerous ranged enemies more easily, or weaken enemies as they approach 14:50:33 my concern is the inventory pressure this is going to create, if everyone (or at least many more characters) are going to be using ranged 14:50:42 that's a fair concern 14:51:03 Maybe we can compensate by goldifying food or ammo 14:51:16 (or both) 14:52:10 I think the most important question would be what stats would the ranged weapons have 14:52:47 (also keep at least one triple crossbow in the game) 14:52:58 sniper can be a triple crossbow, obviously. 14:53:04 well, in that case i kind of want to resuggest my old idea of having a "clip" system 14:53:17 that is acceptable 14:53:31 still so very pleased that I saw a triple crossbow in real life 14:53:43 ontoclasm1: does it still offer benefits in the new system? 14:53:48 yes 14:53:54 ontoclasm1: could you remind me how it works? 14:53:58 <|amethyst> ammo is tactical then 14:54:06 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:54:12 you get X shots (where X is quite low) and then have to reload (which takes a long time and thus can't be done in combat) 14:54:45 <|amethyst> ah 14:54:58 <|amethyst> wasn't exactly what I was thinking 14:55:36 for an xbow presumably X=1, so you get one really powerful shot per combat 14:56:06 <|amethyst> what happens when you swap launchers? 14:56:14 <|amethyst> I guess have to load first 14:56:29 <|amethyst> err, between swapping and firing I mean 14:56:30 yeah, otherwise you'd carry around 5 xbows 14:57:53 ontoclasm1: In the new system, what problem is solved by the proposal? Ammo is already limited fairly sharply on a strategic scale, so people won't be able to use the weapon constantly even w/o clips. It sounds like it would be a further nerf to the weapons, which are already nerfed by the more sharply limited availability. 14:58:13 It definitely invites the comparison to rods as well 14:58:18 oh, the intent was that then ammo is infinite 14:58:22 oh, I see 14:58:40 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:58:43 doesn't an always equip system make launchers a lot like evo 14:58:47 so idk if that jives with your plans 14:58:48 in that everyone would want to have a bit of it 14:58:53 DrKe: yes 14:58:54 like a +9 launcher always chunks something decently 14:59:16 DrKe: more skills that everyone wants puts more pressure on all the skills people already want 14:59:25 even with the current system i sorta feel that way about launchers 14:59:48 like i don't really want to lug around the +9 longbow of fun but it's silly not to 14:59:54 yeah 15:00:10 In this case you don't have to "lug" it around -- it'll be equipped so you can use it w/o constantly swapping 15:00:16 i guess i would mostly be concerned with inventory issues in that case then 15:00:32 i wouldn't miss the primary ranged character very much 15:01:36 I do wonder why it is that the primary ranged character is such an issue where such concepts like the primary summoner character are considered acceptable 15:01:37 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:01:40 DrKe: yeah, that was mentioned by PF above -- goldifying food and/or ammo might resolve that 15:01:50 (I'm not complaining, primary ranged is boring beyond belief) 15:02:01 my main issue with it is that it's clunky and not that fun yeah 15:02:52 i do like a lot of things about blowguns other than early game poison needles though 15:02:54 Lightli: yeah, primary ranged is extremely effective, tactically boring, and exceptionally tedious. Unless you do the not-that-powerful approach of "pure summoner", Summoning doesn't have issues 2 and 3. 15:02:58 like needlestabbing 15:03:14 as in, the extra needle effectiveness using stealth with blowguns 15:05:21 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1371-gb56d335: Rename ghostly flame clouds to spectral clouds (PleasingFungus) 10(86 minutes ago, 20 files, 43+ 45-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b56d33567c92 15:05:21 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1372-g60dc724: Remove AC-piercing from ghostly fireball 10(64 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/60dc724736b5 15:05:54 hooray 15:06:30 while changing that i learned that clouds have descriptions??? but you can't see them with xv so i don't know what they're for 15:06:36 haha 15:06:39 excellent 15:06:42 this red cloud seems pretty hot 15:07:09 hahaha 15:07:30 MarvinPA: i'm pretty sure i actually did see a cloud description with xv 15:07:36 but you can also get to them with ?/L 15:08:32 http://sprunge.us/BFWL is what i see under xv 15:08:54 oh wow ?/L has a pretty menu 15:09:02 ?/ is definitely the best command that nobody ever uses 15:09:02 No matches. 15:09:07 thx sequell 15:11:15 i never looked at that before amalloy 15:11:20 its beautiful 15:11:31 DrKe: it is new to trunk. wasn't in 0.16 even, i think. certainly not 0.15 15:11:36 MarvinPA: i see it for reals in wizmode right now 15:11:49 https://gist.github.com/amalloy/6f1f5fca1bedc6ecc704 15:14:20 -!- d3thz0r has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:52 -!- d3thz0r has left ##crawl-dev 15:18:06 -!- Codrus has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:22:01 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:32 -!- TMTurtle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:35:40 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:38:00 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:39:16 -!- Stairphysics has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:41:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:06 -!- xcourier has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:48:52 -!- xcourier has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:47 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:49 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:55:34 -!- d3thz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:00 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:02 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 16:00:02 great. now that there are 27 clouds i wont be able to convince anyone to remove some 16:00:16 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:03:21 -!- Fusha has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:05:08 -!- d3thz0r has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:00 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 16:07:31 -!- dalight has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- domiryuu has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- Chance672 has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- panicbit has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- fazisi has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:31 -!- Lasty_ has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- cojito has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- ChongLi has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- dpeg has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- Rotatell has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- Prozacelf has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- us17 has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- medice has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:32 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 16:07:37 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:40 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:44 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:57 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:17 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:38 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:28 -!- amalloy has left ##crawl-dev 16:12:32 -!- amalloy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:01 -!- athros has quit [Quit: Night night] 16:14:07 -!- d3thz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:17:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:24:20 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:21 The build passed. (master - 60dc724 #2823 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66589700 16:24:22 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 16:24:48 chris C is MarvinPA right 16:25:32 i think it's wheals 16:25:59 hm, no 16:26:03 <|amethyst> chris campbell is marvinpa, yes 16:26:38 I get pinged when travis finishes his builds because someonePA put his real name down 16:26:55 maybe I should stop stalking "chris" 16:27:15 -!- athros has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:39 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [] 16:30:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:34:32 -!- d3thz0r has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:37 MarvinPA: you can see cloud descriptions with xv 16:34:54 if there's not a monster or item in the tile 16:35:09 also ty wrt ?/L :) 16:37:35 kinda sad to lose "the memory of flames past" but I have no one to blame but myself 16:37:51 -!- athros has quit [Client Quit] 16:38:58 the memory of flames past never dies 16:39:19 -!- xScy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:39:44 long after the thrill of flaming is gone 16:43:10 -!- d3thz0r has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:43:21 minmay: I have a terrible feeling that ink clouds may not be much longer for this world :( 16:43:37 -!- TMTurtle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:27 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:50:47 -!- Ivan_cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:55:54 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1373-g64d4c99: Fix spectral mist description 10(59 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64d4c99c68c4 16:55:57 PleasingFungus: ah i had the naming wrong in the database 16:57:32 -!- Taraiph has quit [] 16:58:01 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:38 -!- TMTurtle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:15 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:03:19 -!- Chance672_ has quit [Quit: Leaving my desktop..... laptop possibly?] 17:03:33 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:04:28 -!- Mottikins_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:06:09 is there a way to get a monster to use a launcher in fsim 17:07:50 !tell Lasty_ i noticed in _apply_apocalypse, a variable named die_size is used to choose the number of dice to roll, rather than the size of the dice. bug, or just badly named variable? 17:07:50 amalloy: OK, I'll let lasty_ know. 17:08:35 oh, maybe i wanted to tell lasty, not Lasty_. i dunno 17:10:01 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:10:37 -!- Molotove[mac] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:57 -!- TMTurtle__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:14 amalloy: sounds like bad naming to me. I should fix it. 17:12:14 Lasty_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:12:31 -!- flappity has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:33 !learn add lasty_to_do i noticed in _apply_apocalypse, a variable named die_size is used to choose the number of dice to roll, rather than the size of the dice. bug, or just badly named variable? 17:12:34 lasty to do[12/12]: i noticed in _apply_apocalypse, a variable named die_size is used to choose the number of dice to roll, rather than the size of the dice. bug, or just badly named variable? 17:12:37 Lasty_: if it's just bad naming, ??apocalypse[2] should also be fixed 17:12:50 ??apocalypse[2] 17:12:50 apocalypse[2/3]: Number of dice is 4 (+mute or paralysis) or 6 (+slow) or 8. Size of each die is 16.0 at min piety and 21.0 at max piety. Die size is also scaled by XL, ranging from 2/3rds damage at XL1 to 100% damage at XL27. 10 is added to the damage after it's rolled and scaled. 17:13:04 hold on 17:13:07 !source godabil.cc 17:13:07 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc 17:13:18 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:13:40 amalloy: no, that's actually supposed to be the die size 17:13:50 am I passing in the params in the wrong order? 17:13:53 yes 17:14:00 ??source random.cc 17:14:00 I don't have a page labeled source_random.cc in my learndb. 17:14:06 erg, where does that live? 17:14:10 !function roll_dice 17:14:11 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/random-var.cc#l246 17:14:11 !source roll_dice 17:14:11 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/random-var.cc#l246 17:14:47 amalloy: Ayup, got that backwards. 17:15:11 Lasty_: the easy mnemonic for roll_dice is that it takes args in the same order as the traditional NdX notation 17:15:23 Lasty_: i can fix it for you if you want 17:15:38 amalloy: sure, thanks 17:15:53 -!- dwarj has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:15:54 I'm not sure how I got convinced that it was XdN 17:16:04 (so to speak) 17:20:01 Lasty_: i notice you're initializing a bunch of variables to values that never get used, up at the top of the function. is there a reason to prefer, eg, string message = ""; over string message;? (given that message is always being assigned to later) 17:21:30 oh except i guess most of them are not assigned to in the "no special effect" clause 17:22:21 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:22 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 17:25:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:44 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:59 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [] 17:29:32 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:41 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31:51 amalloy: yeah, exactly 17:31:54 minmay is there a way to get a monster to use a launcher in fsim <- iirc the last time someone asked, no one knew how (out of several devs in channel) 17:32:09 I think the answer is 'probably no' 17:34:39 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:14 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:50:04 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:51:43 New branch created: pull/63 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/63 17:51:43 03amalloy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/63 * 0.17-a0-1371-ge391d93: Fix Ru's apocalypse damage 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e391d9311cd4 17:53:05 if whoever merges that wants to look at #62 as well that'd be great, so i don't accidentally update it by pushing to my master branch 17:54:41 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:42 The build was broken. (master - 64d4c99 #2824 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66603839 17:54:42 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 17:54:50 thx travis 18:01:28 /nick Pleasing%20Chris 18:01:53 UI missing item name line when mousing over them 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9773 by Thelo 18:02:12 -!- ohyou has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:17 -!- speranza has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 18:05:59 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:28 i think that change is actually a substantial nerf to apocalypse. EV on 16d4 is 40, and 4d16 is 34 18:09:10 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1373-g64d4c99 (34) 18:10:20 minmay is there a way to get a monster to use a launcher in fsim <- iirc the last time someone asked, no one knew how (out of several devs in channel) 18:10:23 I know, I was the last person that asked 18:14:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:15:16 so how far along are the ranged combat reforms? is there a patch yet or is this still just the idea phase 18:17:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:48 ranged combat reform started in 0.6 18:17:54 i would much rather roll 16d4 than 4d16 18:18:34 -!- Ququman_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:54 and i would rather eat a taco than a puppy. whats your point 18:18:55 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:46 -!- astronaut has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:22:14 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:47 -!- aarujn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:28:13 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:35:09 Lightli: afaik idea/planning phase 18:35:18 that was a lasty question, tho 18:36:18 -!- TMTurtle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:48 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 18:40:57 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:07 -!- Syndicus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:45 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:54 -!- Syndicus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:08 -!- nonethousand is now known as Guest71494 18:42:19 -!- LordSloth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:43:05 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:14 -!- Molotove has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:31 -!- shklvsk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:43:35 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 18:44:49 -!- Cacophony has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:25 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:49 -!- squimmy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:47:13 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:47:38 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:51:10 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:59 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:55:01 -!- coledot has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:55:02 -!- coledot_ is now known as coledot 18:59:49 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:00:26 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00:33 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:01:12 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:49 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:22 -!- namad7 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:32 what does too many items on this level not dropping the item mean? because when i just try to drop it one more time the error goes away and it lets me drop a billion more items.... does it ever delete items? whats the point? 19:08:45 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:27 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:13:59 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:18:40 amalloy: yeah, it's a nerf. It's probably worth testing out to see how big of one it feels like in practice 19:19:10 namad7: when you get that message it deletes a bunch of items from the level 19:19:16 namad7: and then stops you from dropping it anyway because ??? 19:19:20 Lightli: PF is correct. I haven't really started coding yet. I intend to start this weekend if I get the time. 19:20:32 namad7: details: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15106&p=207145#p207145 19:23:28 will it delete my stash? or does it delete the items that were originally on the level instead? 19:23:39 also why were stashes nerfed? they helped people with ocd not go insane, hah 19:26:10 "nerfed"? 19:26:22 this is not a recent change, or even an old change 19:27:13 oh 19:27:29 i guess i used to always stash in the temple/hive where there weren't a lot of item dropped to start with 19:27:32 my current stash is in lair 19:27:35 -afaik the only thing affecting it is item destruction went away so there are just generally more items? 19:27:51 Lasty: what's the full plan at this point? 19:28:07 also weight limits meaning you collect more items to stash 19:28:37 I recall dedicated launcher slot, but also removing many of the ranged types? going more for a rod-like behaviour in terms of the quiver/rare arrow finds to increase available ammo idea? 19:28:38 that thread suggests the limit is 2000 19:28:41 (if weight had one good pointm, it was that it discouraged excessive packrattery) 19:28:44 yes 19:28:44 but with like 50items it's still happening to me 19:28:51 2000 total on the level 19:28:55 something must be borked on my installation, i guess that's what i get for playing offline 19:29:03 yeah 19:29:07 not 2000 in your stash 19:29:07 i've got like 10times fewer than that 19:29:11 on the level in total 19:29:18 my stash had like 12items in it 19:29:21 that ... if so that might indicate a bug somewhere 19:29:22 and that was enough to trigger it 19:29:23 report it on mantis and upload your save 19:29:31 well the error is ... gone 19:29:32 but someone would needt o see a save when it happens 19:29:36 like this happened yesterday 19:29:52 if i see the message again i guess i'll backup that save 19:30:04 geekosaur: another nerf to casters. they cant stash enough of their food anymore 19:30:21 unless ammo counts as individual items 19:30:25 food destruction is gone, why would I stash food? 19:30:26 i was mostly storing big stacks of ammo 19:30:36 so that might've been 2000 items if each bullet and arrow counts as 1 19:30:44 yes 19:30:51 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:30:52 the thread indicated a stack of ammo counted as 1 though 19:31:27 no, ammo stack was in referencew to what is seelected for destruction when the limit is reached 19:31:57 gammafunk: check the log from around 2 pm 19:32:08 and there was a speculation earlier about stacks of ammo counting as one but I don't think so? 19:32:12 er -- about 5 hrs ago 19:32:26 ok, although I resent having to *read things* 19:32:28 okay nevermind then no bug 19:32:37 !source _cull_items 19:32:37 i just need to not stash ammo anymore 19:32:37 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/items.cc#l203 19:32:49 make more stashes on different levels, if you must 19:32:55 if a stack counts as multiple items that is definitely a bug 19:33:10 to be fair, if I write it here you still have to read it 19:33:46 I don't actually know if it does or not. It would not surprise me greatly as crawl was not originally intended or expected to have 1000 rocks/arrows/whatever on a level,,, 19:33:50 good magic number for old LOS range there 19:33:57 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 19:34:52 yeah 19:34:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:34:57 geekosaur: well, the game that made a stack of like 10000 acquirement scrolls worked fine 19:34:58 dropping 500rocks is what caused it 19:35:17 i thought it was odd because i thought that coutned as 1 item, but if it counted as 500 and then the 100arrows and 100bolts also counted 19:35:29 might still need to see the save; it's possiuble that they're supposed to be grouped but some things don't 19:35:51 there are some oddities all through crawl. the code is not exactly the cleanest stuff I've ever seen 19:35:53 well is the save useful if it's way later the event? 19:36:01 namad7: I can drop 2300 stones and nothing happens 19:36:03 or do i wait for it to trigger again 19:36:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:23 (that said the C code I work with in my day job is no model of ideal code either >.>) 19:36:28 so it's not that simple 19:36:49 Lasty: hrm, I'm wondering how ammo will really work in practice 19:37:08 as in, will the drop rates change? 19:37:10 I think you'd have to do it after it triggers. in fact I suspect iot'd have to be a save from *before* it's triggered, so you'd have to get into the habit of saving after entering a level or something 19:37:30 either in terms of floor generation or enemies, I mean 19:37:33 the game always saves after entering a level 19:37:34 and copy the .cs before saving/exiting when it happens so it's the level before a bunch of stuff gets deleted 19:38:00 then when the culling happens you can deliberately crash 19:38:08 and the game will load your beginning of the level save 19:38:15 Displaying success chance for hex spells in monster description 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9774 by Sandman25 19:38:25 althoguh if it's the thing you dropped, the save should be ok since the trigger should be in the stash you are on and the random delete ios of stuff outside of LOS 19:38:33 minmay: since crashing is so easy right 19:39:04 looks like about 1600-1700 arrows and bolts generated in a 3-rune game 19:39:06 ZChris13: "Kill process" 19:39:21 ...but I can;t see it being what you dropped because it hits it when it tries to drop and sees no room on the level 19:39:28 so it wasn;t actually dropped yet 19:39:55 gammafunk: I'm thinking not significant;y changed. At most 2x current 19:40:12 -!- Bcadren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:27 gammafunk: wow, that many? 19:40:42 gammafunk: maybe just as-is then 19:40:55 Lasty: centaurs and elves 19:41:00 this, this is from swamp-snake objstat 19:41:15 minmay: I forget elves sometimes 19:41:16 1600 arrows, 1700 bolts 19:41:22 snake has a lot of ammo now 19:42:16 has a lot of bolts I bet 19:42:49 but I'm curious, in this scheme there's one skill for all launcher types? 19:43:10 that's what we were discussing 19:43:25 so this means I'll possibly run out of arrows and just switch to xbow or vice versa ? 19:43:31 and then probably I'd not run out of ammo 19:43:38 gammafunk: fair point 19:43:51 and then with sling bullets as a fall back 19:43:59 tho you might not have very good weapons in each type.. 19:44:31 is there a way to check if the player has worshipped god X before? 19:45:07 gammafunk if i can remember 19:45:13 i'll try to intentionally trigger it someday in the future 19:45:19 but it'll be hard to remember something so obscure 19:45:19 -!- Arzonite has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:45:23 ? 19:45:30 did you mean ot ping someone else 19:45:37 s/ot/to/ 19:47:05 no 19:47:11 err yes 19:47:14 probably geekosaur 19:47:17 i thikn i got you two confused! 19:47:26 I'm the one that's not a geek 19:47:31 the whole reason this camea up 19:47:41 is that i'm a stabber spen who is considering branching out into a ranged weapon at some point in the future 19:47:48 so i was trying to drag all my stacks of ammo downwards with me 19:47:58 gammafunk: any recommendation for dealing with the issue? 19:48:05 i'm rusty and haven't played in years so i'm unable to pick, after I pick though i won't even want that much ammo 19:48:08 and it'll never come up again ever 19:48:18 because i can just discard all the ammo for the weapons i'm not picking 19:48:19 Lasty: yeah it's an interesting problem. We don't have an issue like this for melee weapons 19:48:34 Your exec axe doesn't just fall apart, forcing you to pick up a battleaxe 19:48:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:55 anyone got a suggestion on which to pick? blowguns have effects that are similar to my hexes, do blowgun hexes bypass MR? probably not? 19:49:06 in which case probably shortbow just for raw damage and aptitude matching? 19:49:14 namad7: that question is better asked in ##crawl 19:49:17 this is the dev channel 19:49:20 oh okay sorry 19:49:31 Lasty: I think one major problem is the prospect of going back through the entire dungeon to pick up e.g. bolts because I'm now out of arrows 19:49:49 it kind of feels like you need one ammo type almost 19:49:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:59 gammafunk: you raise a good point 19:50:11 could abstract it to just "ammo" 19:50:40 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:50:56 yeah, maybe needles could remain for blowguns and not be compatible with "ammo" 19:51:09 -!- quik has quit [Client Quit] 19:51:17 i'm sure only ren faire participants would complain if xbows used "arrows" 19:52:56 there's also the thing were we don't want to make it so every character would be a fool to not train "ranged" (not sure what you're calling it) and use it a lot 19:53:06 I'm not sure how you might be adjusting damage to deal with that 19:53:44 hm, how can I pass an interpolated string to simple_god_message? like "%d", var 19:53:54 i can't do simple_god_message(make_stringf 19:53:56 !function simple_god_message 19:53:57 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/message.cc#l1734 19:54:33 just get the .c_str() from one you make 19:54:38 and pass that as the arg 19:54:47 since that's what simple_god_message wants 19:54:58 ah. c_str converts from string to char? 19:55:24 it's not a conversion, but it's what you want 19:55:31 a reference like http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/string/string/ 19:55:50 cool, works 19:55:54 is good to have; that site is usefull if you have questions about C++ classes in general 19:56:10 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:57:56 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:45 i've been amazed by how little you have to deal with memory management in crawl code. with a background in C on one end (healthy amounts of malloc/free), and functional programming on the other (thus tons of generated objects cleaned up by GC), i sorta expected there to be more memory fiddling in C++. but it seems like you can do most of it with destructors and scoping 20:02:12 yeah, I was struck by that too, amalloy 20:02:41 we have some strategic global variables to minimize memory management, of course 20:03:03 and "some" isn't exactly accurate as there are quite a few 20:03:53 well, that's more about managing parameter lists than memory 20:04:17 well we pre-allocate in those global variables 20:04:19 you could just as easily allocate them on main()'s stack and pass them to every function, and still not deal with their memory 20:04:46 but maybe that's a silly straw-man 20:05:01 well you're certainly right about that; I guess the most important aspect is the pre-allocation 20:05:08 since we only have one level loaded at a time, for instance 20:05:35 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:05:57 it might get trickier if we needed to have multiple levels loaded at once for some reason 20:08:35 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:58 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 20:11:17 load all the levels at once 20:11:20 run all the levels at once 20:11:24 what could possibly go wrong 20:11:41 * Grunt hides from the server admins... 20:12:12 you pay for the ream and i'm in! 20:12:23 what about the CPU power <_< 20:12:45 -!- domiryuu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:13:22 -!- serq has quit [Quit: und weg...] 20:13:52 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:33 -!- aarujn has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:28 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:23:06 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:25:55 probably still a concern but less so imo 20:34:01 New branch created: pull/64 (6 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 20:34:01 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 * 0.17-a0-1374-g7e06d6b: Update ecu-altar description (geekosaur) 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7e06d6bc8873 20:34:01 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 * 0.17-a0-1375-ga23eb42: Allow Gozag to offer more than one free potion petition. 10(19 minutes ago, 3 files, 16+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a23eb42b9614 20:34:01 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 * 0.17-a0-1376-g6328851: Give monks a benefit from rolling Gozag at ecu-altars. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/632885104602 20:34:01 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 * 0.17-a0-1377-g4d0e1c0: Give monks a benefit from rolling Ru at ecu-altars. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d0e1c01b48d 20:34:01 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 * 0.17-a0-1378-ga4c1698: Simplify, and add a message for Gozagite rolling Gozag at ecu-altars. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a4c1698bec06 20:34:01 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/64 * 0.17-a0-1379-g8128fc2: Don't roll "no god" for ecumenical altars. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8128fc214df8 20:40:41 -!- Fluffhead has quit [Quit: Fluffhead] 20:41:05 -!- Chance672 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:45:43 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:36 You kneel before the altar to NO GOD. 20:50:45 You suffer the terrible wrath of No God. 20:51:26 it was more "You feel no god accepting your prayer!" 20:51:38 :( 20:51:42 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:45 that's just boring. 20:51:51 Crawl needs more NO GOD. 20:51:55 it's funny 20:52:16 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:16 what is the wrath of no god? random probability fscking you over? 20:52:21 * Grunt calls down the wrath of NO GOD against NONEXISTENT FOE. 20:52:29 ??no god 20:52:29 I don't have a page labeled no_god in my learndb. 20:52:47 1learn add no_god You feel no god accepting your prayer! 20:52:48 learn add no_god You suffer the terrible wrath of No God. 20:52:59 Grunt: imo it 20:53:41 sorry, it was "No god accepts your prayer!" 20:54:01 and then the altar vanished 20:54:24 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:56:01 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:48 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:57:56 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 21:04:01 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:04:35 -!- Textmode has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:25 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:11:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:23 gammafunk: I do think it's good if every character wants to train ranged, but doesn't necessarily have the XP to spare to do it -- like Dodging or Fighting. I also think it's good if the ammo supply isn't functionally infinite. 21:12:36 if every game is giving 3500-ish ammo, that's functionally infinite 21:13:23 Lasty: it's infinite eventually. early game, ammo constraints can feel pretty severe 21:13:23 !calc 2800.0 / 5 21:13:24 560 21:13:36 er 21:13:42 !calc 1700.0 / 5.0 21:13:43 340 21:13:46 amalloy: yeah, but if everyone can end the game with powerful, functionally-infinite ranged weapons, that's not great 21:13:57 gammafunk: why / 5? 21:14:05 amalloy: it's not going to be infinite eventually with always-mulch, right? 21:14:27 i think there's a different between "functionally infinite" and "actually infinite" in how players will play 21:14:28 the same aspect of increasing access to ammo does occur 21:14:54 making ammo finite will make people care about ammo stacks, which will make players want to hoard ammo, perhaps unneccessarily 21:14:55 Lasty: I'm trying to make some crude calculation as to how many monsters you might be able to kill 21:15:01 gammafunk: ah 21:15:07 see what happens when you give people 1 BFG9000 ammo 21:15:16 there are 2800 monsters in a 3-rune game if you visit all branches 21:15:31 obviously a real game kills far fewer 21:15:41 hrm, that total's in the morgue, isn't it 21:15:46 !log * won xl=27 21:15:47 gammafunk: presumably some of the 1700 ammo of each type gets fired, and under always-mulch that means you don't get it . . . probably the average ranged monster fires 1-2 shots? 21:15:47 24866. nimitz, XL27 DgWz, T:171974: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/nimitz/morgue-nimitz-20150613-003901.txt 21:15:52 plus summons 21:16:12 Lasty: well I'm figuring for after your change 21:16:36 as in, after you make a change like this, just how many enemies will you get to kill 21:16:41 but yeah you're right monsters fire shots as well 21:16:41 yeah 21:16:57 !log * won xl=27 urune=3 21:16:58 9672. WhiteShark, XL27 NaWz, T:62869: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/WhiteShark/morgue-WhiteShark-20150613-003054.txt 21:17:32 hrm 21:17:44 855 creatures vanquished. 21:17:45 Grand Total: 3919 creatures vanquished 21:17:49 guess that's type of creatures 21:17:56 oh I see 21:18:06 it's 3k creatures killed 21:18:13 interesting 21:18:35 must be due to spawns 21:18:40 I don't really love the idea of one type of "generic" ammo. If I goldify ammo but preserve the distinct types, then ammo can be on autopickup, which solves the backtracking problem. You still get the "out of arrows, switch to bolts" problem, but that is somewhat suboptimal, as the weapons will still consume ?EW... 21:19:29 well that seems awkward to me though 21:19:42 you're saying I'm going to lose a slot to bolts or no? 21:19:46 what about branded ammo 21:22:34 I'm saying you would not lose a slot to bolts 21:22:37 or branded ammo 21:23:00 Did you also say that arte launchers would no longer be a thing? 21:23:27 I was thinking if you have a ranged weapon quivered, Q brings up a list of the ammo for that weapon only, from your magical ammo stash, with the ability to use * to go to inventory or something like that 21:23:53 I'm not sure if they should be a thing or not, but if they are a thing the sorts of passive brands allowed should be seriously limited 21:24:10 I don't want people just getting a free slot to put sky weapons into 21:25:33 -!- dalight has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:54 it seems a bit awkward to me. It seems to me that if I'm training ranged skill, I'll just collect all of sling bullets, arrows, bolts at first, and once I settle on a primary launcher I'll probably look for a useful secondary when my primary ammo source runs out 21:27:39 probably you'd just want to partially enchant a primary and secondary since you can kind of plan for when you expect to run out of primary ammo 21:27:53 or maybe you find a good arte to be a secondary 21:28:16 true 21:28:21 hrmm 21:28:31 I confess, that doesn't sound fabulous 21:30:08 gammafunk: so do we keep the separate skills? It solves the backup weapon problem 21:31:41 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:44 -!- Ququman_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:46 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:18 I guess you'd have something closer to your always-mulch branch and would maybe double ammo drops? 21:36:02 or maybe even leave ammo drops the same -- it'll probably take a little tweaking 21:36:20 if you got about 3k arrows in a game you might be able to kill say 600 enemies 21:36:29 very ballpark of course 21:36:43 specifically the 600 most scary ones 21:36:55 if you went trog/oka that would increase, but probably to not more than 1k or so I'm guessing 21:37:18 yeah it'd be careful accounting of ammo to use it on the right fraction of monsters 21:37:44 which I guess is kind of the point of ranged in a world where you don't give the player infinite ammo 21:37:54 yeah 21:38:30 sorry I don't really have answers; it's easier to imagine what will go wrong with an idea than to make a new one that's good 21:38:44 I suppose the other direction is to do something more like what ontoclasm said, where you give infinite ammo but put it into clips so you can only use so much, but then every fight you'd want to exhaust your cllip . . . 21:39:05 yeah, that's kind of like the rodificiation proposal I think seigurt made 21:39:14 *siegert? 21:39:21 gammafunk: on the contrary, I appreciate the thoughtful feedback. If this is going to work, we're gonna bneed to anticipate these issues 21:39:31 better to think of them now than after 40 hours of work on it :p 21:39:36 yep :) 21:42:38 you can reuse a lot of your ammo in crawl tho for sure 21:42:49 although i'm finding about ten times as much ammo in .16 as i used to last time i played around .9 21:43:15 namad7: well there's no encumbrance. you could just be noticing it more, because you don't have to leave it behind 21:43:23 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:31 i think it's both 21:43:43 maybe it's literally 2-3times and i'm noticing it 2-3times as much for other reasons 21:44:31 getting 1000rocks is totally possible in .16 and i really don't think it was possible in .9 or at very least not possible in .3 (the version i probably played the most of) sorry if that statement is utterly irrelevent! 21:52:30 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:00:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:04 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:52 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 22:03:44 -!- xcourier has quit [Changing host] 22:11:14 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:12:03 -!- omniscientist is now known as omniscient 22:13:48 namad7: we haven't increased rock generation, it's just that you couldn't carry them all and you never bothered to tally them up 22:16:50 -!- omniscient is now known as omniscientist 22:17:59 ^ 22:18:05 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:33 which is what I meant earlier when talking about weight limits, because that was what stopped you from picking up every single rock you ran across 22:20:56 -!- Hanyuu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:23:42 -!- tannisroot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:28:27 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:30:23 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:45 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:14 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:02 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:53 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 22:55:40 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:29 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:09 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:23 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 23:19:54 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:30:53 -!- Cacophony has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:43 -!- Doesnty has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:25 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [] 23:34:13 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:49:54 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:36 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:58:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:59:44 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.]