00:02:21 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:53 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 00:06:53 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:12:40 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:44 All the files are in indexed color mode is this for compression purposes or to limit the colors in the final product? It does mean that I can't use any colors that aren't already there, without changing the mode before I save. 00:19:00 i'm pretty sure the former 00:19:44 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19:53 ping, re: giant club tweak 00:20:12 Anyways; since I figured you'd want to approve before I go too far: original Spriggan_F next to new spriggan_f: http://i.imgur.com/lrexhiA.png 00:20:38 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:20:51 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:20:53 If it's too small, I'd rather here it now than hours down the line. 00:23:34 now that I stop to look at it I think I lost too much of the curve of the arm myself, trying to balance that vs. the hand looking too big for the body now. 00:24:11 -!- ohyou has quit [Quit: ohyou] 00:24:54 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:40 could you put it into a real crawl scene perhaps? hard to judge 00:25:48 mockup is the word i wanted 00:26:29 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-1324-ga541562 (34) 00:29:28 Unsure if the 3 pixel thick body is sustainable or I should go back to the standard 4. sure...I can add it to a screenshot quickly...just link me a screenshot of the area you want it in. 00:30:52 -!- rubinko__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:04 -!- leetdood has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:20 Or I can wizmode there if you won't link...hmm... 00:32:44 ??trunk 00:32:44 trunk[1/3]: The latest development code of Stone Soup is often referred to as trunk. Trunk tile+command-line windows binaries are available from http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ 00:35:10 -!- rubinko__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:02 well there are some little ones on the frontpage 00:36:15 otherwise just screenshot d:1 with a few monsters 00:36:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:38:58 I downloaded trunk and Wizmoded to a random floor (L:4) in a hurry for the sake of screenshot I'll leave the original and my two new versions for a pick between the two. 00:39:09 -!- mmazing2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:43:01 -!- aarujn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:43:16 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:52 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:48:38 yes 00:50:33 http://i.imgur.com/NnZdkBr.png 00:51:15 Top row is two original sprites (male and female Spriggan) followed by one version of my female (3 Pixels thick). The bottom row is the other version of my female (4 pixels thick). 00:51:17 likkle spriggan babies! 00:51:32 wait, there are gendered spriggans? 00:52:17 there are gendered ALL player dolls. the male has abs and pants and the female has a bikini. No clue why... 00:52:41 I'll join the regular channel and ask there too. 00:53:33 well, my opinion is that the spriggan doll is too small, and that more like 66-75% would be better. But i'm not one of the graphics guys 00:53:51 you just can't really see the armour/weapons when it's that few pixels 00:54:02 maybe dcss should require retina display, then the problem is solved 00:54:50 hah. 00:55:23 well you can't change the size of the armour/weapons 00:55:53 (ontoclasm said above he'd be willing to do the work so you can) 00:56:19 It might still be too small for the sprites to be reasonably seen I'm thinking 00:56:44 onto is willing to edit all of the armour tiles? 00:56:57 no, blade is! 00:57:16 well that's not... 00:58:02 I'm sure what you mean is that onto said we could allow custom armour tiles by body size to be used 00:59:41 but yeah, you're not going to see all that much detail in terms of body armour on smaller tiles, but it's more just can you tell plate from chain from dragon armours in some way 00:59:58 Normal Shoulder height is 23 pixels high the bottom 3 pixels of the normal sprite are cut off by the health bars anyways though. so 20 pixels high to draw armour this has... 12. and is reasonably short enough that there's no need to cut off the feet. I think it's a reasonable amount to work with. Bottom version has thickness of 4 pixels; top has thickness of 3; normal has thickness of 3. *shrug* 01:00:44 Spriggans don't use boots, so there's no reason that clothed covering up the feet would be a problem...(I think robes normally cover up the feet anyways. 01:02:03 well, i guess you could tell the diff between robe and dragon armours which is all you need for sp, because of the shape and colour 01:03:13 if/when I also do troll/ogre as larger sprite I'll probably show some of the armours as barely fitting (chest showing through. I -think- I can do armour at this size anyways though. 01:04:34 Do you want me to do alternate versions of weapons as well for this? 01:06:46 yeah, i'd say that's a bit too small 01:07:00 maybe like 4 px taller 01:07:17 or even more 01:07:24 look at goblins 01:07:34 or monster spriggans 01:07:42 it's 12, original is 23... [shoulder not head height] 01:08:05 yeah, but it's stylized 01:08:24 they need to be easy to see, that's more important than making them "realistically sized" 01:09:23 is there a canonical size ratio between species? or just what can be derived from monster tiles / number of chunks, etc etc 01:10:32 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1324-ga541562 (34) 01:11:02 "who knows" 01:11:52 Sorry; I guess I just went into my normal kind of high contrasty no unnecessary pixels style. I think it's enough pixels to work with, myself, but I'll go back to about a 16 pixel shoulder height. 01:12:02 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:46 well yeah, i make tiny stuff too, it's just that a sprite that small is going to be invisible on the screen 01:12:55 when it needs to be the most visible thing 01:13:02 (since it's the player) 01:15:25 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:29 something related: a lot of webtiles players play scaled down from full size tiles 01:19:48 so x iamge pixels may be resized smaller on many screens 01:19:56 don't have good numbers for this but I could get some if you're interested 01:21:52 Alright new version of the base: http://i.imgur.com/XoAiJCg.png 01:22:20 Also if the fact I changed the skin color to be more like monster spriggans (greenish) is an issue I can revert that (of course). 01:26:10 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:54 And here it is in the enviro again: http://i.imgur.com/CqfTWTB.png [it's the bottom one] 01:27:49 that still reads as "very small" to me, especially considering 99% of monsters are full size tiles even for cockroaches/geckos/etc 01:28:30 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:29:18 Spriggans are very small, if it's small and still legible as the player's sprite, I don't see the issue. Different size players actually having a different sized appearance is the purpose here. (and for me to get some sprite art practice, obviously) 01:29:48 sorry, if it was ambiguous that was compliment :) 01:30:17 If I make it any taller though it'll start to read as 'bean pole' heh. 01:31:44 if that one's acceptable, I'll make the male, then I'll do all the clothes, and statue form and...is that it? it might need it's own blade hands, too, I guess. 01:32:15 Same file name in a folder called 'Spriggan' for each edit? 01:33:01 (again, not a graphics dev, just voicing an opinion) 01:33:10 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:26 -!- aarujn has quit [Quit: aarujn] 01:34:22 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:34:25 found it player/small/body instead of player/body. I'll just replace the bases though. 01:35:25 I'll be near (but I have my headphones in, so you may need to PM me) I'll try to get it all done in the next 8 hours or so. 01:35:30 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 01:37:46 !tell lasty is this a junk definition at the top of godabil.cc static bool _player_sacrificed_arcana(); ? 01:37:46 chequers: OK, I'll let lasty know. 01:38:48 !tell Lasty_ ah, it's used in sacrifice-data.h 01:38:48 chequers: OK, I'll let lasty_ know. 01:43:25 why is Lava Orc and Djinni still in here anyways? Or are they not in an actual build? 01:43:29 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:43:38 /s/is/are/ 01:43:58 save-compat 01:44:35 (djinn were removed for being a pile of dumb gimmicks with their main one being done better by VS anyways, LO was removed because temperature was a mess of a mechanic) 01:44:52 While I'm in the bases folder, god centaurs are ugly. IDK if I can fix it (and have it still be a horse and not change the body size) but...eww... 01:46:48 yes, the player dolls in general are pretty bad 01:47:12 re: your new sprite, it's a good size now but i'd make it brighter 01:48:08 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:52:33 I'm trying to fix centaur right now, I can't live with it being that bad. 01:53:15 horse isn't easy in that few pixels though. o_o; 01:53:46 yes 01:54:06 also the "waist" needs to be a flat line at the height it currently is 01:54:16 so that armours can be cut to fit it 01:56:37 Is having the rump be pixeled in behind the human body ok? (it might need to be layed on a different sprite to clip right, like the 'shadow' is (I think the shadow is) 01:58:02 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 01:59:10 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:59:43 i'm not sure; maybe i can make it work, but maybe not 02:00:12 the code that handles layering tiles is pretty nasty 02:00:17 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:26 -!- jefkin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:02:38 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:02:56 current centaur looks more like a 3 legged spider than horse... 02:06:09 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:36 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:09:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:09:29 -!- XV88 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 02:11:42 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:44 -!- Gorgo1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:28 a lame 3-legged spider 02:21:31 alright 02:21:41 this is still pretty shitty but I redid centaur 02:22:15 http://i.imgur.com/jU6lysR.png 02:23:37 morris dancing Ce 02:23:50 what no, with ood 02:24:11 oops, meant ##crawl 02:24:56 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:22 chequers: having one leg up is about the only way to have it discernibly a horse and not a cow... 02:26:41 Their joints are different and there aren't enough pixels to put in the knees. 02:27:36 idd 02:27:54 idd? 02:28:17 Inderdaad? 02:28:39 i don't disagree 02:29:01 or indeed, urbandictionary tells me 02:31:33 Actually I guess it should be fine, I was saying earlier the rump needs to be behind everything, but then so does the rest. Should I change the human part? It's kind of meh, but not bad as is (I haven't changed it). 02:32:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:43 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:40:35 -!- Idolo has quit [] 02:42:41 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:25 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:59 ontoclasm: Yea I redid centaur, had to shift the body one pixel to the left is that going to bother weapons? 02:52:23 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:53:06 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:26 -!- Lohengramm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:26 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:57:18 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:38 Blade: yes, probably 02:58:29 damn. suppose I could make the arm one pixel shorter, but I don't think...there's anyway to make the horse part fit well and keep it where it was, it was a squeeze as it was. 02:58:43 ontoclasm: http://i.imgur.com/jU6lysR.png 03:00:03 hm 03:00:34 good/bad? ._. 03:00:41 i guess it's better than the current one but the shading is very flat and the proportions are kinda strange 03:00:45 in the front in particular 03:01:29 the front leg that's touching the ground looks like it's attached in the wrong place 03:01:51 And I'm here thinking the human part is a bit overshaded, I guess that's all detail craming. I can keep touching on it, but it's not enough room for a horse. 03:02:10 detail cramming? 03:02:26 -!- Lohengramm has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:28 the human part is basically entirely flat as well 03:02:33 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:02:34 which isn't good 03:02:50 yea the pixels look like they are trying to express detail there aren't pixels for. 03:02:52 value changes that small might as well not exit 03:03:00 Do you have a prefer lighting direction? 03:03:23 crawl tiles are all shaded from the top-front-left 03:03:47 if you're basing your shading etc. on the player doll tiles that's... not what you want to be looking at 03:03:53 Current versions: http://i.imgur.com/GEmTypg.png http://i.imgur.com/XkvHxxk.png 03:04:07 Oh true; so the current shading is crap, don't follow it. KK. 03:04:08 haha 03:04:18 yes 03:04:50 look at e.g. the ironbrand convoker 03:05:04 it seriously looks like the pixel placement was to try to imply noise and elbow, etc. instead of lighting directionality. 03:05:15 well, it's from rltiles, they're all like that 03:05:49 I could try putting both legs down again I had it like that originally and I thought it looked like a cow. there aren't enough pixels for horse's oversized knees. 03:06:07 there are always enough pixels 03:06:21 it just takes determination 03:07:05 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/qud/qud7.png 03:07:38 Alright. I'll keep trying. 03:07:50 Should I put the leg back down? 03:08:14 i like it raised, but whichever way looks best 03:09:10 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:11:54 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:12:17 You on PixelJoint, btw? 03:12:29 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:50 me? no 03:18:24 -!- mnoleg69reagan42 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:18:29 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:00 ontoclasm: here; threw away the human part's shading AND got it back where it should be: http://i.imgur.com/hYwilDL.png 03:20:55 that's better 03:21:13 the horse part still looks very flat, though 03:21:24 put it against black and you'll see what i mean 03:21:46 not enough contrast or? could have swore the lighting was right that time. 03:21:58 you should try to use the whole range of values 03:22:00 ...suppose I got myself into redoing the bardings too now, huh? 03:22:08 you have like three colors and they're all right nex tto each other 03:22:33 few colors is fine but they should be quite distinct 03:22:43 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1324-ga541562 (34) 03:22:47 I first learned to sprite from pokemon fan art...and the style pokemon uses (for whatever reason) is always three shades of each color. 03:23:11 well that's because it was on the gameboy first 03:26:32 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:28:23 ontoclasm: very light edits except color palette this time: http://i.imgur.com/0WVLOcC.png 03:29:36 that's going the wrong direction in my opinion 03:30:09 what you need is deeper shadows, that looks orange 03:30:57 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:10 increased contrast one color at a time, the highlight got lighter, shadow got darker...all of it got more saturated...hmm ok highlight and tone back to where they were just the shadows darker? 03:31:32 and much less saturation 03:34:46 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 03:36:23 This? http://i.imgur.com/fdRyico.png 03:36:49 yes 03:38:04 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:17 Should I do all the other Centaurs? they are just recolors of the brown one. o_o; heh 03:39:24 i would spend a bit more time working on that one; look at some photos of horses for reference 03:39:29 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:39 the front part in particular 03:40:01 http://img04.deviantart.net/462f/i/2013/206/d/f/quarter_horse_stock_6___rabicano_by_skunktail17-d56rwj3.jpg 03:40:23 the chest and shoulders 03:40:49 I guess I got myself into redoing all the barding sprites too, huh? ._. heh 03:41:04 if you like 03:43:47 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:43:49 how do those currently place and how much would show up on this new version of the Ce? 03:44:16 they just get layered on top 03:44:29 I mean assuming there's a robe (there's always a robe) how much would show? 03:44:35 all of it 03:44:40 body armour gets sliced in half 03:44:48 and only the top half shows 03:46:04 yea, but I changed the horse-body's position so for it to still bear the bardings...yea 03:47:54 -!- ontoclasm has left ##crawl-dev 03:49:01 well. person critiquing me has left. guess I'm on my own. hah. http://i.imgur.com/1GvJZsj.png 03:52:12 -!- Taraiph is now known as Taraipher 03:55:25 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:57:34 ??black knight horse barding 03:57:34 black knight horse barding ~ black knight's horse barding[1/1]: A +10 centaur barding of ponderousness, with Hunger- and rN+. Wearing it, you still move faster than humans (delay 8). Is considered evil by the good gods; read the description if you don't know why. 04:00:58 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:11:03 Original 'Blue Barding': http://i.imgur.com/cTp6U6x.png New version (on Ce): http://i.imgur.com/sPuszHb.png New Version (doll sprite without the doll): http://i.imgur.com/AEri0Hf.png 04:19:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:21:39 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:21:39 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:03 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:44:39 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:50:07 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:55:31 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:59:14 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:03:49 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:11:56 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:51 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:24:45 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:27:12 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:28:27 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:18 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:44 -!- wat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:35:45 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35:52 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:35:56 -!- speranza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:36 I think my git desynched, should I just post the new sprites to contributions on the tavern, or? 05:43:16 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 05:53:07 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 05:59:53 -!- kvaak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:02:24 -!- mibe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:09:19 Welp I Tavern-Posted it. https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16472 06:09:42 -!- Blade has left ##crawl-dev 06:11:14 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:34 -!- Blade has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:22:08 -!- Gurmil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:26:17 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:29:54 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 06:31:25 -!- wat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:31:47 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:34:08 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:06 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:41:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:28 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:53:38 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 06:54:56 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:56 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:08:07 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:09:48 -!- BanMido has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:10:58 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:42 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:45 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:15:58 -!- rj54x has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:18:44 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:23:23 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:27:59 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:24 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:41 why do shard shrikes caw but caustic shrikes screech 07:51:54 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:52:41 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:29 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 07:59:44 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:02:03 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:04:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:05:22 -!- xcourier has quit [Client Quit] 08:05:23 -!- mmazing2 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:11:27 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 08:13:36 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:21:53 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:25:10 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:16 hey guys, is there any documentation on the source code? Like, a quick overview of all the source files? 08:31:56 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1325-g4d1ca98: Unrandomise hell beast speeds 10(3 days ago, 3 files, 2+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4d1ca9885bd8 08:31:56 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1326-ge4d8b75: Remove ravens 10(41 minutes ago, 33 files, 51+ 163-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e4d8b7511e60 08:31:56 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1327-g5ccdc37: Remove an unused translation file 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ccdc376bedb 08:31:56 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1328-g2bcb431: Don't allow polymorph to batform full Vampires, give non-Vp bats normal hunger 10(17 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2bcb431e2db2 08:33:51 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:35:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:36:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:44:13 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:45:33 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:51:28 I think compiling the kernel takes about as much time as compiling dcss 08:55:09 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:55:34 FlowRiser: there are a few files in the docs/ dir, what are you looking for? 08:57:53 chequers, I am just looking for a bit of an overview, since there are allot of files involved. My goal is to develop a nice touch GUI, but do not know where to plug everything in 08:58:20 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:09 difficult. but something i'd like! there are no active android devs right now 08:59:18 try poking Grunt or |amethyst 09:00:08 Grunt, |amethyst if you can give me some quick overview, it would be much appreciated 09:04:53 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07:46 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 09:12:17 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:13 -!- Chance672 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:19 -!- CcS_ has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:38 Do you have a recomended distro to run an Official Server? Or does Ubuntu LTS work? 09:17:04 ubuntu works 09:17:14 official servers are on hold for a bit though 09:17:57 oh? 09:18:18 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:58 crawl is moving to unified logins. although if you have a new server in an interesting location exceptions may be made 09:19:14 interesting 09:19:29 I'm still looking to host an official server if possible 09:19:39 i have lots of free space to offer 09:19:44 in Albany, NY 09:19:48 more servers is good :) 09:20:51 so i should wait to set it up until a later date? 09:21:25 someone else recently set up a new server, it's just unofficial so not part of the unified scoring system or etc 09:21:28 ??cbzz 09:21:28 CBZZ[1/1]: http://crawl.buzz - NJ, USA. Run by syndicus. 09:23:41 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:24:27 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:28 The build was broken. (master - 2bcb431 #2800 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66041256 09:24:28 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 09:32:58 -!- twofortypee has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:35:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:18 -!- yuastnav has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:45:21 -!- Karagy has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:43 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 10:00:38 -!- yottam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:54 -!- ohyou has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:18:28 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:21:56 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:22:44 -!- Kramin42 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:39 -!- CacoS has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:36:32 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:41:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42:34 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:55 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:59 -!- Chance671 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:43:55 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:45:07 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:45:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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I'm not going to make a case for it. I'm just curious if it was ever discuss. I tried looking on tavern. 11:47:12 I know I've seen it suggested. Don't know that I've ever seen any serious discussion about it. 11:48:52 FlowRiser: afaik there's no overview of the code. what in particular are you curious about? 11:50:30 PleasingFungus, I am curious how the ncurses gui/ tiles gui draws on the screen 11:51:08 ah 11:51:12 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:12 i found the tiles*.h, but do not understand quite how the system works 11:51:34 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:38 the tiles gui is implemented in javascript running in the browser 11:51:43 um 11:51:47 the webtiles gui, yes 11:51:49 even offline? 11:51:53 offline tiles uses opengl 11:52:00 hm, right, I forget about offline tiles 11:52:02 haha 11:52:04 yeah, with stl 11:52:10 three all different mechanisms >.> 11:52:18 <|amethyst> tilesdl.cc and windowmanager-sdl.cc are the main SDL-specific things 11:52:18 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:52:19 yeah Grunt or maybe? gammafunk would be the best people to ask about our opengl/sdl2 stuff, I think 11:52:21 oh 11:52:25 consistency, who needs it 11:52:27 neil to the rescue 11:52:40 geekosaur: hey, at least console and webconsole are the same thing (: 11:52:48 true 11:53:54 <|amethyst> !tell johnny0 good question... would have to ask doy since it's based on his ashenzari bot 11:53:54 |amethyst: OK, I'll let johnny0 know. 11:54:16 <|amethyst> !tell doy what's the license on Ashenzari/Cheibriados/dcss_mirrorer anyway? johnny0 wanted to know 11:54:16 |amethyst: OK, I'll let doy know. 11:54:37 <|amethyst> I don't know the sdl stuff that well 11:54:50 <|amethyst> I just know those are the two most relevant files :) 11:54:59 hey, that's more than I knew! 11:55:05 FlowRiser: what are you trying to do? 11:55:23 <|amethyst> also, all or most of the tilereg-* stuff ends up being SDL-specific 11:55:30 Basically make a new GUI, touch oriented 11:55:32 <|amethyst> not SDL-specific but local-tiles-specific 11:55:52 <|amethyst> FlowRiser: FrogBotherer worked on that a little 11:56:12 <|amethyst> FlowRiser: there are various places that change the GUI slightly or more than slightly #ifdef ANDROID 11:56:27 <|amethyst> it's still the SDL2 port in general though 11:57:00 <|amethyst> #ifdef TOUCH_UI, sorry 11:57:14 <|amethyst> (which is currently only enabled for Android) 11:57:22 <|amethyst> #ifdef __ANDROID__ is for more technical stuff 11:58:58 <|amethyst> it would be nice if webtiles could be made more touch-friendly too 11:59:10 <|amethyst> but I guess that would first require making it more mouse-friendly :) 11:59:30 ideally, it would also make it more touch friendly 11:59:54 well, like we were saying earlier, webtiles has a completely different rendering mechanism 11:59:58 <|amethyst> right, not actually two stages 12:00:05 <|amethyst> rendering and control mechanism 12:00:10 yes 12:00:34 <|amethyst> IMO both tiles and webtiles should make clicking on buttons work by macros 12:00:41 YES 12:00:46 <|amethyst> rather than the current thing they do where you can start an action at weird times 12:00:47 that is what I was thinking 12:01:19 <|amethyst> but GUI programming? this is know from nothing 12:01:20 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:23 <|amethyst> s/is/I/ 12:01:25 -!- radinms has quit [] 12:01:51 what would be the best option to separate these processes? 12:02:12 <|amethyst> (But I think of great Lobachevsky and I get idea - haha!) 12:02:36 hey i like how starcursed masses get to shreik even under silence 12:02:39 this seems really fair 12:02:47 |amethyst: is good song 12:03:26 <|amethyst> FlowRiser: separate which processes? 12:03:37 |amethyst, the control mechanism from the rendering 12:03:39 it's described as a mental shriek, why would silence affect it? 12:03:53 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:06 <|amethyst> I have no idea... my thought involved associating buttons and clicks on UI elements with key sequences and stuffing those into crawl's input buffer 12:05:29 <|amethyst> (or, rather, with key sequence templates that get filled in with context at some point) 12:05:39 <|amethyst> maybe that's a bad way to do it 12:05:56 |amethyst, well it does not solve the underlying problem 12:06:22 geekosaur so basically in bypasses all defenses except HP and breaking LOS 12:06:37 a very unixy approach 12:06:39 does clarity help? ive never tried 12:06:48 rast: nope 12:06:52 pretty much. but it's an abyssal horror so that's not exactly surprising 12:06:53 sanctuary does! 12:06:58 <|amethyst> or some kind of priority queue for user actions 12:07:14 ah ok then, HP, breaking LOS, or one ability from a specific god 12:07:31 other good defenses include hitting the starcursed masses until they stop hurting you 12:07:36 that's my favorite 12:07:38 personally 12:08:11 PleasingFungus they spam too quickly sometimes 12:08:22 I will try to strip clean dcss from any rendering 12:08:26 especially since they usually show up in crowds 12:08:36 they always show up singly 12:08:45 as in crowds of other monsters 12:08:45 if they become crowds, that's because you took too long (: 12:08:48 ah 12:08:55 which prevent you from getting to them 12:09:14 <|amethyst> FlowRiser: basically, the problem I mentioned is that *most* player actions happen from _input, which guarantees that they are sequenced properly, that turns pass between commands, etc 12:09:16 yes, I'm aware that if the enagagment starts at range zero with no other monsters, you'll be able to kill them at the same speed they reproduce 12:09:30 in a perfectly spherical crawl, 12:10:06 <|amethyst> oh, it looks like some GUI things do stuff commands into the macro buffer 12:10:15 <|amethyst> see the insert_commands() calls in tilereg-* 12:10:42 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 12:10:45 <|amethyst> but e.g. SpellRegion::handle_mouse() calls cast_a_spell() directly! 12:10:52 h 12:10:53 m 12:10:56 @??starcursed mass 12:10:56 starcursed mass (02X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 133-169 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Dam: 16 | 11non-living, see invisible, regen, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(100), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1330 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 12:11:01 regen, huh 12:11:06 that's not gonna do very much 12:11:44 anyway, these days it's probably possible to confuse them, which probably won't actually disrupt the screaming, which is probably a bug 12:11:51 <|amethyst> maybe the problem is just that we're checking UI events when the game is in the middle of something 12:11:56 someone should do something about that 12:12:09 <|amethyst> but of course we want to do that in general, so it doesn't feel like a Windows 3.1 app 12:12:15 also it looks suspiciously like they're in the category of monsters I'll call "monsters you can walk away from" 12:12:21 which imho is pretty good tech 12:12:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:12:30 PleasingFungus how about make the paralysis check MR 12:12:35 nah 12:12:43 that sounds like a bad idea. 12:12:56 how about at least let them check clarity 12:12:58 you can't really walk away from starcursed masses 12:13:02 sure they're speed 10 but they split 12:13:11 and there's usually other stuff going on 12:13:17 its not a perfectly flat abyss 12:13:31 <|amethyst> we just shouldn't do actual game-state manipulation at those times... so I was thinking it would be better if the GUI stuff put game-affecting things into another event queue (the macro buffer used by insert_command maybe, or maybe something else) that was only processed once per turn 12:13:51 minmay, blessed be his name, would note that you could walk away until the abyss creates walls behind you 12:13:53 <|amethyst> The paralysis checks stasis doesn't it? 12:13:58 at which point the problem would cease to be 12:14:16 all paralysis checks stasis afaik, starcursed mass certainly isn't an exception 12:14:22 !lg rast 12:14:23 1090. rast the Chopper (L4 MiWr), slain by linjason's ghost on D:3 on 2015-06-08 07:18:40, with 69 points after 1668 turns and 0:03:42. 12:14:27 !lg rast abyss 12:14:27 12. rast the Warrior (L22 VSCK of Lugonu), blasted by a starcursed mass (accursed screaming) on Abyss:3 on 2015-06-06 19:55:06, with 379825 points after 58140 turns and 5:27:18. 12:14:32 condolences 12:14:33 i've walked away from lots of things in abyss but i'm fairly sure i've never managed to walk away from a starcursed mass 12:14:40 at speed 10 that is 12:14:47 PleasingFungus my fault, should have popped tele as soon as i saw them 12:14:55 then walked away until it kicked in 12:14:55 !tv rast abyss 12:14:56 12. rast, XL22 VSCK, T:58140 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 12:15:15 agh 12:15:20 spoiler: i held down tab until i was half dead, then flailed around uselessly 12:15:25 largeterm!!!! 12:15:35 secret tech for avoiding embarassment 12:15:35 ?? largeter 12:15:36 I don't have a page labeled largeter in my learndb. 12:15:37 i've walked away from starcursed masses 12:15:43 !nuke 12:15:44 FooTV playlist clear requested by *. 12:15:55 as an actual monster to fight its pretty bad 12:15:58 but mostly that only works when there's other stuff chasing me, to stop it from keeping LOS as i duck around corners 12:16:10 the other good thing vs them is AOE spells 12:16:17 (obviously) 12:16:20 also i'm fairly sure the screaming thing doesn't take a turn 12:16:21 you can also hit them a lot 12:16:28 so it can scream at you while chasing you 12:16:43 kvaak: yeah, iirc it's one of the last mon-abilities 12:16:44 actually no that's wrong 12:17:11 -!- Fusha has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:18:08 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:28 oh, good, confusion does prevent screaming 12:19:00 anyway it makes them lose_energy(EUT_SPECIAL) 12:19:07 or one of them does, anyway 12:19:13 one of them, now nice :\ 12:19:13 I don't know the implications of that 12:19:53 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 12:20:39 |amethyst, that sounds like a good compromise 12:21:04 starcursed mass (02X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 133-169 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Dam: 16 | 11non-living, see invisible, regen, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(100), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1330 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 12:21:04 <|amethyst> %??starcursed mass 12:21:45 <|amethyst> screaming and splitting both take a turn, yes, *but* screaming can be anyone's turn 12:22:05 <|amethyst> so if one is completely surrounded, it is effectively "free" 12:22:07 god, I wish I could tweet these 12:22:36 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:22:59 "im generally annoyed by the (apparent) recent trend of more monsters that ignore player defenses" 12:23:12 how many monsters ignore player defenses 12:23:15 mental attack that ignores MR 12:23:21 mental attack that ignores clarity 12:23:25 <|amethyst> one mass takes the screaming action, all of them scream (and get dur-1 ENCH_SCREAMED to prevent screaming immediately so it's not quadratic) 12:23:27 aren't they like two years old 12:23:27 there's like, hellfire, torment, starcursed mass and uh... 12:23:29 kvaak starcursed masses 12:23:36 well everything in shoals 12:23:36 hellfire and torment are ancient 12:23:38 but that's another story 12:23:45 torment checks rN at least 12:23:47 kvaak: ? 12:24:15 ah, more like two and a half years old 12:24:24 that's recent! 12:24:30 not really seeing a trend here... 12:25:31 :P 12:25:31 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 12:26:10 !learn add reserved_clan_names Quadratic Screaming [PleasingFungus] 12:26:11 reserved clan names[3/3]: Quadratic Screaming [PleasingFungus] 12:27:21 'screaming can be anyone's turn' is also a very good phrase for... some context 12:27:39 <|amethyst> !learn add reserved_clan_names Akrasiac Record 12:27:40 reserved clan names[4/4]: Akrasiac Record 12:27:46 rast: how you can die in the Abyss while following Lugonu? 12:28:23 I wonder what the odds are on full-power Banish beating a starcursed mass's MR 12:28:29 that'd only help against a lone one, ofc 12:28:36 ??banish 12:28:36 banishment[1/5]: Sends the target to the Abyss. Checks MR, unlike distortion melee. Cast by deep elf demonologists/sorcerers, Louise and SOME (ancient) liches, wizards, ogre-magi, Erolcha, and pan lords. You get 50% XP for banishing a monster. 12:28:55 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:02 lugonu's is capped at whatever power invo skill 10 gives you, for some secret reason 12:29:11 <|amethyst> I think exit the abyss is pretty much guaranteed to beat them though 12:29:14 ya 12:29:22 |amethyst: :) 12:29:27 but what if they follow you through! 12:29:40 PleasingFungus: you go back to the Abyss! 12:29:44 haha 12:29:46 until they're dizzy 12:30:07 little cartoon stars spinning above their evil constellations 12:30:13 my Fo got banished thrice today, but it was not so bad 12:30:45 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:31:17 PleasingFungus: this bit about Lugonu banishment power cap is problematic... players would expect more power from higher skill. 12:31:36 ya it annoyed me when I found out about it 12:31:39 I think I might still be annoyed 12:32:25 lots of things have weird secret caps; fedhas's speed boost to oklob firing speed caps at invo 20, for example (though that's not as bad) 12:32:46 and there's something weird about how flame tongue damage interacts with power? 12:33:12 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: ITYM "oklobs hit mindelay at invo 20" :) 12:33:17 asdfasdfasdf 12:33:20 :( 12:34:37 I'd lean toward removing the cap entirely, without any other changes, but I'm vaguely concerned about ~power creep~ 12:34:42 -!- Taraipher is now known as Taraiph 12:34:43 !lg * current trunk / won 12:34:49 1940/157687 games for * (current trunk): N=1940/157687 (1.23%) 12:34:54 dangerously high... 12:35:04 does fedhas need to boost oklobs? hes already the best god 12:35:18 the game's basically a coffee-break roguelike for babies at this point. 12:35:24 <|amethyst> what hexes go up to 200? most of them? 12:35:37 no idea 12:36:13 minmay: the point of the game in which oklob boosting is relevant is pretty far away from the early-game fedhas supremacy zone 12:36:25 PleasingFungus: even abortionists might be able to win Crawl now, we can pack it 12:36:34 what on earth is an abortionist 12:36:39 ha! 12:37:00 is this some kind of german concept 12:37:05 I'm baffled 12:37:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: dpeg's been reading the Westboro Baptist Church web site again 12:37:17 fun fact: German "Abort" = English "loo" 12:37:37 toiletists!? 12:37:37 Amen 12:38:07 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:38:17 minmay: if we wanted to focus on making fedhas an early game strong & late/extended weak god, we could remove the speed boost. is that desirable? 12:40:01 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:40:31 no, but I was under the impression that it was fedhas' intent already. apparently not, so carry on! 12:42:41 intent? 12:42:43 in crawl design? 12:44:05 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:14 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:44:37 more seriously, I'd say it's more of a question of degree - fedhas could be weak late, or it could be 'worse than atheist' late. my vague feeling is that the former (the current situation) is better 12:44:48 dpeg by being awful at crawl. 12:45:09 and yes, exit the abyss would have saved me at any point 12:45:12 rast: that is completely okay! Was just wondering whether I was missing something strange :) 12:45:21 that's not why im complaining about them 12:45:32 it was like 3 days ago; im over it 12:45:32 PleasingFungus: I am in favour of nerfing oklobs by making them phase out after a while. 12:45:52 (Fedhas oklobs, that is) 12:45:56 dpeg: mushrooms are the reason fedhas is the best god, oklobs are not that great 12:46:02 minmay: I know that. 12:46:07 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:17 because mushrooms can walk, whereas oklobs cannot! 12:46:20 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:24 ... 12:46:34 also mushrooms actually exist 12:46:54 that's not why mushrooms are good, mushrooms are good because you get them at * and they destroy everything 12:46:54 my last fedhas char found ~15 fruit total by zot 12:47:09 I think it's better to remove the cap (which is not overly relevant to Fedhas anyway) and at the same reduce impetus for luring 12:47:26 kvaak: you were starved for fruit? 12:47:40 and since i had the audacity to use 3 or 4 of them in shoals they didn't basically do shit in z:5 12:47:46 dpeg: yes you could say that 12:48:07 kvaak: did you contemplate acquiring some? 12:48:23 dpeg: nobody except you saves acquirement scrolls 12:48:32 I am sure this is wrong. 12:48:56 also under F, acq^fruit is useful right away, so should always be an option 12:49:11 I suspect the people who save acquirement scrolls and the people who realize fruit acq exists are non-overlapping sets 12:49:25 but yes, when you do happen to find acq and be with fedhas fruit acq is good 12:49:34 minmay: hey, dpeg's right there! 12:49:38 since I am in the intersection, they overlap 12:49:45 so i guess i'm not supposed to use oklobs unless i acq fruit 12:49:53 I was actually going to add "the people who aren't dpeg" to that but I decided it was too wordy 12:50:03 kvaak: no, I was just asking whether you actually stumbled upon some ?acq 12:50:20 kvaak: I think that's part of the point of using fruit though? that you can just not find it sometimes 12:50:49 wtf, why did gammafunk list food as "comestibles" 12:51:21 anyway, looks like the average 3-rune game has 53 fruit, which... seems high. minimum 12, max 137 (!) 12:51:21 well i assumed if i didn't use fruit at any point during the entire game at all i could set up a couple of oklobs in z:5 12:51:29 guess i was wrong 12:51:33 kvaak: it could have been worse!! 12:51:39 yeah thats definitely wrong lol 12:52:00 -!- Mateji has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:52:29 surely players notice that in non-fedhas game the number of fruit items has really, really high variance? 12:52:39 doesn't really seem spoilery to me 12:52:43 why would i notice that 12:52:46 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:51 PleasingFungus: you can thank vaults for that 12:52:56 sure 12:52:56 i don't particularly care about the amount of particular type of permafood i find 12:52:57 minmay: I think it is easy enough to observe, yes. 12:53:03 rip the 200 fruit vault 12:53:15 it will live on in our hearts... 12:53:22 PleasingFungus: you mean the "let's plaster the way to Zot with oklobs" vault? 12:53:28 !hs . op 12:53:29 17. PleasingFungus the Metallomancer (L27 OpEE of Kikubaaqudgha), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-06-18 19:32:25, with 14404106 points after 109203 turns and 10:51:06. 12:53:32 !hs . op -log 12:53:33 17. PleasingFungus, XL27 OpEE, T:109203: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/PleasingFungus/morgue-PleasingFungus-20140618-193225.txt 12:53:36 add elms back to crawl 12:53:39 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:46 tf, that game was silly in a lot of ways 12:53:48 *tbf 12:54:00 minmay: were elms ever actually in crawl 12:56:37 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:50 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:50 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:02:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:25 minmay i save acquirement scrolls 13:02:45 for example, if a skill is near max ill wait to max it before acquiring manuals 13:03:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:04:01 -!- megawidget has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:26 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:44 -!- Fusha2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:09:00 that is such a niche case that who cares, really 13:10:30 my reaction was "wtf, someone actually acquires manuals?" 13:12:32 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:14:56 i acquired manuals on my DDAs. 50% of the time i acquired a tome of destruction instead 13:17:30 Is there a way to have Sequell running in my own channel? 13:17:55 RIP tomes of destruction... 13:18:34 <|amethyst> Chance672: there's ##crawl-sequell 13:18:46 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:08 Like, im streaming on Twitch right now, and would like to be able to use the !! commands in my chatroom 13:19:09 <|amethyst> (which is for sequell development, but gets used plenty as a lower-traffic place to work on queries and command definitions) 13:19:15 cool ill ask there 13:19:33 <|amethyst> ah, for that you could at least get the code 13:19:42 <|amethyst> the problem is you'd want to rip out all the crawl stuff :) 13:19:51 <|amethyst> ??source 13:19:51 source[1/4]: Browse the Git repository at https://github.com/crawl/crawl or http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git 13:19:55 <|amethyst> ??source[2] 13:19:55 source[2/4]: If you want the source for *this bot*, go here: http://github.com/crawl/sequell or git clone git://github.com/crawl/sequell.git 13:21:30 hmm 13:21:39 blue devil won't walk into a flame cloud, but will swoop into one 13:23:09 oops 13:23:29 weeeeee IT BURNS 13:23:56 !!golden dragon 13:24:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1328-g2bcb431 (34) 13:29:33 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:10 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:34:02 -!- Kramin42 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:00 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:37:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:37:29 -!- HellTiger has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:08 -!- mmazing has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:10 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:46:41 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:03 -!- xcourier has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:44 -!- xcourier has quit [Changing host] 13:48:44 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:58 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: YourBNC - (https://yourbnc.co.uk)] 13:50:19 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:55:55 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 13:57:48 -!- Fusha has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:59:49 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:50 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Changing host] 13:59:50 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:16 -!- Kramin42 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:55 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:15 -!- Kramin42 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:29 %git :/([Uu]narmed [cC]ombat|UC).*armour 14:05:29 07chequers02 {|amethyst} * 0.17-a0-840-g666ab1d: Remove aevp-based speed penalty for UC/throwing. 10(7 weeks ago, 1 file, 5+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/666ab1d8430c 14:05:29 Lasty_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:07:31 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:47 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1329-gda499b9: Remove some crufty Gozag code. 10(5 hours ago, 4 files, 11+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/da499b95551d 14:09:47 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1330-g3e5826c: Make friendly bribed allies permanent but restricted to their branch. 10(40 minutes ago, 6 files, 17+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3e5826c8d45e 14:11:03 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 14:12:27 -!- ldf_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:22:52 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:23:32 -!- Felid_Jinx has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:47 hello. 14:24:44 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 14:26:34 while squarelos is the best thing ever, I think it's problematic that in a certain range, LRD now gets *worse* as its power increases 14:26:55 minmay: how's that? 14:27:46 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:06 it stops being able to hit monsters next to you safely because it may or may not reach 2 squares 14:28:40 that was a problem in circlelos, for some monster/wall positionings 14:30:37 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:47 except it wasn't, because it only mattered if you positioned like an idiot 14:31:57 also i don't think that stops happening at any spellpower. once you break the spellpower threshold for being able to generate a large explosion, there's always a 1/3 chance of it 14:32:04 so it's not a certain range, it's just forever 14:32:06 Isn't that a feature? FStorm has it too... 14:32:32 oh, right, I keep forgetting it works like that now 14:32:34 i think it's perfectly reasonable that blowing up the structure of the building you're in should be a bit risky 14:32:37 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:32:44 well, just get rid of the threshold and have it do that at all powers 14:33:43 amalloy: I believe if your spellpower gets high enough (like still using LRD really far in extended) it starts being always the larger one, but it's hard to get there. Someone would have to check (speaking anecdotally that it seemed to always be the larger one in late game on something that focused it, not on source). 14:33:51 Felid_Jinx: it's extremely difficult to actually cast fire storm with bad enough power for that to happen 14:34:02 Felid_Jinx: i don't think so 14:34:17 looking at the source it appears to always check one_chance_in(3) 14:34:35 i could be wrong, maybe it's being called in some different context, but that is what i think is going on 14:35:25 amalloy: I think the 1/3 is odds of making the wall completely disintegrate. 14:35:29 no, you're right 14:36:23 those are the same thing, Felid_Jinx. you get a large explosion iff you destroy the wall 14:37:27 fr: reflavour petrify to metallify, cast it on a wall to turn it into a metal wall. now it ACTUALLY has synergy with lrd 14:37:48 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 14:38:05 Badwiki is 1/2 for crystal; 1/3 for Rock; 1/10 for stone; spellpower dependent for Metal (3-8%) [Dunno if correct.] 14:39:19 Felid_Jinx: that's correct 14:39:26 -!- seriallos has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:35 jesus, it is 14:39:51 why is it spellpower dependent for exactly one wall... 14:40:23 Spellpower/25 for that wall, right? 14:40:25 seems dumb, i agree 14:40:44 Felid_Jinx: no. x_chance_in_y(pow / 5, 500) 14:40:44 -!- xcourier has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:40:55 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:56 !function setup_fragmentation_beam 14:40:57 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc#l1978 14:41:16 amalloy: that IS spellpower/25 14:41:23 spellpower/25% that is 14:41:36 er 14:41:40 (spellpower/25)% 14:41:41 ah, i suppose it is 14:41:43 Yea those are mathmatically equivalent. 14:41:49 it's phrased weirdly but yes 14:42:19 why not use x_chance_in_y(pow,2500) 14:42:39 minmay: it's slightly more "spiky" as-is, though i don't know why that's desirable 14:42:44 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:42:53 yes that is exactly why i said that 14:43:24 like x_chance_in_y(pow/25, 100) is similar, as you said, but has even harder breakpoints 14:43:47 who knows why someone decided it should be as spiky as it is now, or if it is just random weird implementation choices 14:44:12 Would getting rid of the bottom threshold for LRD to destroy the wall cause problems? Would making all of them spellpower dependent chances? Would removing metal's spellpower chance and going to 5%? hah [don't have an opinion, necessarily; but those are the questions.] 14:45:51 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:46:19 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:05 !tell wheals Aweome commit! Just won a Fo^G after all, and I wanted to suggest something very close. Many thanks! 14:48:06 dpeg: OK, I'll let wheals know. 14:50:24 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [] 14:50:27 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 14:50:39 the comments on spl-summoning.cc:_fail_tukimas make me sad. documented as /* @return SPRET_SUCCESS */, implemented as return false; 14:50:51 * Felid_Jinx sits up. 14:51:51 I know I'm admitting my identity here; but this is what I wound up making last night, if anyone wants to give feedback. ontoclasm was giving feedback on the horse anatomy as I was doing it, but I was on my own through all the bardings. https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16472 14:53:53 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:56:44 -!- Gurmil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:57:33 !lg dpeg won god=gozag 14:57:33 7. dpeg the Impregnable (L27 FoEE of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-06-09 16:05:43, with 1558821 points after 81126 turns and 4:44:11. 14:57:53 will dpeg achieve greatergozag 14:58:17 ignoring the impossible choices, of course 15:03:13 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:25 gammafunk: money makes the world go round! 15:03:46 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:10 !lg . god=sif won s=char 15:05:11 4 games for gammafunk (god=sif won): OpTm, HEIE, FeCK, HEWr 15:05:19 looks like dpeg is ahead of me 15:05:28 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:05:40 and I repeated a species 15:06:18 !lg . god=sif won s=char 15:06:18 3 games for dpeg (god=sif won): NaNe, DEIE, DrVM 15:06:24 !lg . god=gozag won s=char 15:06:24 7 games for dpeg (god=gozag won): SpAs, OpVM, GrFi, TrMo, MiEE, FoEE, HaHu 15:06:52 I duplicated a background, didn't even know. 15:06:53 !greaterplayer dpeg 15:06:58 !greatplayer dpeg 15:06:58 Unwon backgrounds for dpeg: Abyssal Knight, Arcane Marksman, Artificer, Berserker, Enchanter, Skald, Summoner, Transmuter, Wanderer, Warper, Wizard 15:07:03 Unwon species for dpeg: Centaur, Demigod, Felid, Ghoul, High Elf, Human, Kobold, Merfolk, Mummy, Vampire, Vine Stalker 15:07:11 !polytheist dpeg 15:07:15 Unwon gods for dpeg: , Jiyva, Makhleb, Nemelex Xobeh, Qazlal, Ru, Trog 15:07:40 I tried to solve the Nemelex issue... in a different manner! 15:07:48 that unwon god list is completely shocking!!! 15:08:07 I'll do JQR, promised! 15:08:26 yes, that's a clever approach to polytheist..removing the god 15:08:31 sadly it didn't work 15:08:39 encore une fois! 15:08:50 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14:37 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:18:07 I'm looking through the docs is there a code roadmap anywhere? I can't find one... [tons of files, quickguide as to where everything is would help] 15:19:07 Felid_Jinx, what is where is a well-guarded secret in the devteam 15:19:18 Felid_Jinx, figuring it out all by yourself is kind of a rite of passage 15:21:13 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:21:20 -!- Fusha2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:22:16 -!- eqwroiqr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:55 Was wanting to put together a felid patch. 1-3 vaults. Few new monsters and few new (monsters only) spells. 15:23:22 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:23 The build was fixed. (master - 3e5826c #2801 : Shmuale Mark): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66092484 15:23:23 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 15:23:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:32 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:28:38 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:30:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:32:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:30 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:37:54 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 15:39:05 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:06 dpeg: the idea's been around for a while, it might have even been you who suggested it originally :) 15:41:18 wheals: ha! :) 15:42:28 i was thinking also about making draconians easier to bribe 15:43:05 a strong sendoff to a winning game should make it work better as G's top-tier ability i think 15:43:16 maybe it's more a question of feeling than working 15:43:21 true 15:43:47 currently the classed draconians are at 3/8ths of getting bribed (though it extends to any band) and the unclassed 1/4th 15:43:54 this time, I bribed Elf and Vaults, both very successfully (an elf blademaster and a demonologist are a very nice team) 15:43:55 -!- jefus_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:06 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:44:11 I would've liked to do Coc, but was running out of time 15:44:30 is the bribing conditional on hd as well as belongs-to-branchness? 15:44:35 ??bribe_branch 15:44:35 bribe branch[1/1]: Gozag ability which costs 3000 gold. While active, monsters have a chance to become either friendly or "good-neutral" (like freed slaves) when seeing you, until your money wears out, upon which time they become pacified. 15:44:39 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:44:48 it's conditional on a huge special-cased list 15:44:56 oh that does sound bad, then 15:44:57 which i would love to remove 15:45:10 MPA wants to remove something?! 15:45:19 MarvinPA: that'd be great, as long as stronger monsters are more likely to be bribed 15:45:32 and just let it affect any intelligent natural/demonic monster or something like that (and then scale by HD somehow maybe?) 15:45:38 btw, any final comments on the latest commit in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/48 15:45:46 %git :/Tweak GC 15:45:47 Could not find commit :/Tweak GC (git returned 128) 15:45:57 hrm 15:46:00 yeah having it more likely to affect stronger monsters is good, i just really dislike the specific way it's implemented currently 15:46:15 MarvinPA: yes, I understand 15:46:38 %git pull/48/head 15:46:38 07chequers02 * 0.17-a0-1198-g1e3ea62: Tweak Giant (Spiked) Club base delays. 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1e3ea624d538 15:46:41 I think it is really fun to see that high level vault guy slaughter plain guardians 15:46:46 yeah, that's the current state of things 15:46:54 the new monster ai moving after it gets drained behind other monsters is hilarious with a shit load of yaks 15:47:04 MarvinPA: I don't know if HD is good enough to emulate that without cases... 15:47:16 uh oh, did i bring back the yak cycle.... 15:47:21 the yaks come up and get their dosage of drain and move back to the end of the line repeat 15:47:28 gc get base delay changed from 17 to 16, gsc based delay changed from 18 to 19 15:47:29 wheals: circle of life, circle of yak 15:47:34 the waste turns moving 15:47:38 its hilarious 15:47:46 so if there's no objections to that I'll merge it 15:48:16 gammafunk: Why not make giant clubs to 1-handed weapons what GSCs are to 2-handed weapons rather than just 1-handed slightly stronger evening stars (i.e. base damage 18 1-handed vs 22 for GSCs, paralleling the difference of 4 between double swords and triple swords) 15:48:19 it looks like they stop if the crowd is small enough 15:48:35 Lightli: see the pull request comments 15:48:40 but I think that's just a bad idea 15:48:43 ok 15:49:02 in the pack was black mamba that proceeded to move behind 5 or 6 yaks 15:49:02 the single delay change is fine, no complaints about it 15:49:43 I regret that I cannot include a commiter's note with "Lightli approved" since I'm using the github interface 15:49:44 I think I saw wolves do the same thing 15:50:01 @??yak 15:50:01 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 203 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 15:50:04 @??black mamba 15:50:04 black mamba (02S) | Spd: 18 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 4/15 | Dam: 2008(poison:14-28) | cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 455 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 15:50:20 huh... i would have thought mambas had more HD 15:50:30 I would imagine they same thing would happen with pois 15:50:49 hrm, I wonder if I can in fact update this commit message somehow using github 15:50:51 but I'm almost positive its an accidental nerf 15:51:07 i was actually looking at the HDs of currently bribable monsters earlier to see if i could remove the silly list and i learned HD is pretty arbitrary 15:51:08 the last couple of games I have been killing packs of yaks way to easy with short swords 15:51:09 oh, I guess I can but only the merge commit 15:51:15 @??spiny frog 15:51:15 spiny frog (08F) | Spd: 12 (swim: 60%) | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 6/9 | Dam: 2608(poison:14-28) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 406 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 15:51:15 agentgt: more of a draining buff 15:51:17 same hd as these 15:51:44 wheals: my other thought would be using threat_level or whatever it's called 15:51:46 the oka thing 15:52:07 agentgt: anyway, i didn't think about that... maybe it should use the HD check function that ignores draining 15:52:08 imo remove black mambas, make spiny frogs speed 18 15:52:37 no, the other way around 15:52:46 we need black mambas in snake, after all 15:52:52 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:53:36 yeah, doesn't Ru also use this? 15:53:44 the threat level thing, for Horr etc 15:54:08 I thought it was xom effects at first 15:54:58 yeah, I know xom uses tension, but I'm not sure if tension also uses the threat calculation 15:55:37 i think it's also the same thing as Ash monster warnings 15:57:33 I can't believe I'm admitting this but I sort of wish xom wrath never went away 15:58:02 I guess you can dump your god and go back and forth 15:58:11 03chequers02 07* 0.17-a0-1198-g1e3ea62: Tweak Giant (Spiked) Club base delays. 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1e3ea624d538 15:58:11 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1332-g9db7d08: Merge pull request #48 from alexjurkiewicz/gc1h 10(8 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9db7d08c1ce7 15:58:49 of course no one will read the merge commit comment, but it's nice to be able to comment somewhere 16:03:08 was anyone particularly planning on changing shadow traps into recall traps in the near future? 16:03:25 i guess it's probably easy enough to add recall traps as a new thing anyway, may as well just remove the dead code 16:05:00 you should add cTele traps since you love cTele so much 16:05:41 minmay: what is this? 16:05:55 going to add a trap that one-hit-kills you if you're Dg or Mu 16:06:11 is it a bug that you can't ID empty wands? 16:06:29 %git :/control teleport 16:06:29 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-1096-g50ac6a6: Remove the control teleport duration and -cTele level flag 10(6 weeks ago, 44 files, 77+ 484-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/50ac6a6d7006 16:06:32 minmay: ^ 16:07:00 cTele gone completely or...on until you teleport once? 16:07:11 like if you have a empty wand and you want to ID it so you not waste charges on recharge 16:07:20 excellent 16:07:24 (plus a bunch of other commits that are yet to be squashed and have commit messages added) 16:07:25 -!- Gorgo1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:27 agentgt: yes, understood. Sounds like an overzealous feature. 16:07:42 yeah, so long as you recognize that it's still only in a branch 16:07:46 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:47 MarvinPA: fwiw, I think recall traps are good. 16:07:53 chei is misleading and that's in a branch btw but yes i was planning on merging soon 16:08:11 yes I know 16:08:17 -!- omniscient has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:22 i found a ring of ctele like yesterday 16:08:37 and current status of orb of zot is that you only get the -cTele type effect when you pick it up? 16:08:37 so i spit on my monitor 16:09:00 gammafunk: yeah, i think it's maybe fine to merge like that and just see how it plays out 16:09:03 sure 16:09:18 dpeg: I think I agree. It was only slightly annoying as I was trying to waste some id scrolls 16:09:54 was going to suggest that empty wands auto-id as 0 but I get that's problematic in that you might waste a charge just to 0-id it 16:10:07 s/get/guess/ 16:11:54 gammafunk: nah, cannot do 16:12:15 going to be significanly fewer zot:5 deaths due to blink scrolls working, I guess 16:12:17 ?id should just work on empty wands 16:12:27 gammafunk: :( :( :( 16:13:03 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:04 !lm * recent br.end=zot 16:13:06 12362. [2015-06-09 19:58:21] Gorice the Sorcerer (L27 DECj of Dithmenos) reached level 5 of the Realm of Zot on turn 106205. (Zot:5) 16:13:12 !lm * recent br.end=zot / lg:place=zot:5 16:13:14 816/12362 milestones for * (recent br.end=zot): N=816/12362 (6.60%) 16:13:40 need to give oofs randomised hp, 200-250 range 16:14:26 randomize the ORBS: orb of ice, orb of air, orb of earth, orb of fire... 16:14:45 orb of heart 16:15:01 orb of orbs 16:15:10 great! 16:15:11 very angry orb 16:15:15 casts iood, explodes into 4 orbs on death 16:15:47 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:12 -!- Fusha has quit [] 16:20:00 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:00 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Changing host] 16:20:00 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:25 -!- endou_________ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:05 I still think either the Ring or Teleportation or the Scroll of Teleportation should be removed, seems like teleporting is too common. 16:23:42 <|amethyst> I'd remove the wand 16:24:57 ring is worse than the wand, it's literally infinite instead of just more than enough 16:25:12 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:19 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:20 yes, evocable is worst 16:25:32 it's really silly in abyss 16:25:53 no reason you can't remove both ofc 16:26:06 we get more fan praise if we remove in steps! 16:26:16 I'd say for a GoodPlayer...Ring of Teleportation and about 8 Evocations skill...is you won the game. 16:26:18 first Mountain, then Dwarf 16:27:26 (new pro strat: leave a naga mage alive so you can carry it around for teleports) 16:27:42 Felid_Jinx: ummm good players dont teleport that often 16:28:57 Yea; you shouldn't need to, but it'd get you out of almost anything...worst god's wrath...Mara...Xom being horrible. 16:31:05 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:32:29 But I'll agree; in my more recent wins, it's getting where Why does Haste (Spell) exist? There's more than enough !Haste for every encounter bad enough you'd use it. (Similar for ?Tele) 16:32:50 Felid_Jinx: solve that by playing Fo or Chei 16:33:28 Won both. Chei's kinda my favorite god. The Fo was Ash though. 16:34:11 <|amethyst> What if Haste were L9? 16:34:23 <|amethyst> Or L9 Charms/Tloc, in the Akrashic Record 16:34:28 FoEE get LRD online at good power so early...without having to put up with being unable to heal like the other race that can... 16:34:57 |amethyst: Then no one sane would use it and a bunch of people would swear it was a waste of XP altogether, like they already do with Necromut. 16:35:03 pretty sure that race has an easier time healing than any other one 16:35:14 |amethyst: we have been nerfing Haste since ever, starting in DCSS 0.1, if memory serves right :) Where will it end? 16:35:27 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:36:07 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:36:26 well haste has had buffs too, like going from level 8 to level 6 16:37:04 We've discussed removing Haste (the spell) a few times over here. To no avail so far. 16:37:12 <|amethyst> What about just adding tloc 16:37:29 |amethyst: I am fine with any nerf to the spell, but I am also a lousy player. 16:38:07 Haste (Spell) is something most people use in Zigs...but in normal game there's really enough !Haste for it to be useless. (Unless you get it really early and RELY on it [low XP in non-charms skills] I suppose, but I've never built a character like that, so I wouldn't know.) 16:39:04 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:41:10 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 16:41:20 !greaterplayer comborobin 16:41:25 Unwon backgrounds for comborobin: Air Elementalist, Conjurer, Earth Elementalist, Enchanter, Summoner, Venom Mage 16:41:27 !greatplayer comborobin 16:41:32 Unwon species for comborobin: Centaur, Deep Dwarf, Deep Elf, Demigod, Felid, High Elf, Spriggan, Tengu, Vampire 16:42:04 -!- CacoS has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:30 Felid_Jinx: if you are a little low on !haste, and I sometimes am by Zot:5, I often learn Haste; it doesn't take much skill to do, since you can often quaff brilliance before casting it to turn a high failure rate into a low one. 16:43:37 Or wear +wiz or wahtever 16:43:42 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:53 Lasty_: that's playerthink however! 16:45:02 dpeg: I'm just making the point that the Haste spell is often useful and without much investment 16:45:14 even in a 3-rune game 16:45:14 Lasty_: which could be seen as a negative :) 16:45:18 dpeg: ye! 16:45:20 yes! 16:45:28 That's the side of this I'm on 16:45:33 !comborobin 16:45:36 comborobin progress: 37/615 (6%) 16:45:39 the "nerf haste, maybe remove spell" side 16:45:52 better get on that 16:47:02 Also remove Gell's Gravitas or make it effective at doing something. <.< >.> 16:47:12 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:47:33 I had it early in a game recently, and it was a little like being able to deal "throw stone" damage to enemies if and only if they grouped up 16:48:21 I need to start working on my to-do lists . . . 16:50:43 Alright. I need to try to make this patch. I'll ask for only a tiny bit of help. what are the right files to add data for new monster; new monster spell list; new monster-only spell and new vaults? (Felid Jinx will be one of the monsters in the patch). OH...and to add them to the random spawns on branches; and/or as a member of a pack of an existing monster? 16:52:01 ??comborobin 16:52:02 comborobin[1/2]: A project to win every char combo. The only rule is that you can't play something that has already been won on this account. To see how its doing, type: !lg comborobin won x=cdist(char) 16:53:00 <|amethyst> 1. mon-data.h; 2. mon-spell.h; 3. mon-cast.cc; 4. dat/des/; 5. mon-pick-data.h; 6. mon-place.cc, _choose_band and _band_member 16:53:02 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 16:54:24 Lasty_: I don't really see the "nerf haste" part 16:54:38 unless you mean the spell only, as in either nerf it or remove 16:54:56 I thought we were all talking about spell only?! 16:55:39 I just meant the spell 16:55:54 oh "nerf haste, maybe remove spell" led me to believe you meant the effect as well 16:56:01 -!- Kramin is now known as Guest63879 16:56:01 -!- Guest63879 has quit [Killed (wolfe.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:56:01 -!- Kramin42 is now known as Kramin 16:56:10 Now that you say it, I can see that it looks that way 16:56:25 Looks like my assessment was a bit... 16:56:27 !glasses 16:56:27 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 16:56:30 ...hasty 16:57:33 -!- Kramin|BNC has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:11 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:12 The build was broken. (master - 9db7d08 #2802 : gammafunk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66107731 16:58:12 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 16:58:41 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:45 Clearly we should just implement bcarden's haste/ctele/invis god. 16:58:50 gammafunk: look what your pun did 16:59:38 another make test took too long... 16:59:54 !blame3 bh 16:59:54 bh 17:00:02 well said 17:00:24 That was obviously a bad idea written quickly. They really could use being made rarer, but piling them into one god would only make them easier to get overall. 17:00:55 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:01:44 yeah, I was kidding. 17:03:34 I often write ideas out as soon as I have them, of course some are bad. Heh. A couple of the god concepts I might actually try to implement, but I believe that would be much harder than these mons. 17:03:52 -!- jefus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 17:04:36 -!- jefus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:58 -!- jefus_ is now known as jefus 17:05:22 i have an idea. what if you microwaved a carrot for 5 hours 17:06:05 Felid_Jinx: I may be misreading the subtext, but are you saying you're bcadren? 17:06:06 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:13 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:06:53 Lasty_: he said as much ealier 17:06:59 amalloy: ah, I missed that. Thanks. 17:07:26 one of the many faces of bcadren 17:07:30 Yea, my current username is a reference to this thread: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15842 17:08:22 Going to try to make the casters; I think the melee ones aren't different enough from melee spriggans to be worth it though. 17:08:45 It's time to supersize the subtext. 17:09:49 Tukima's Dance is not going to be a reasonable spell for a monster to use against the player in general; it forces players to carry around a silly number of alternate weapons if they aren't lucky enough to be using a form of attack that is unaffected. 17:10:26 Bolt of distortion is generally also not a reasonable monster ability, at least for the majority of the game. 17:10:33 Lasty_: Turn it into summon a mundane (weak) dancing weap then? [treated as a summon, can be abjured] 17:10:57 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:11:44 Felid_Jinx: the point is every time it gets cast against you, you need to wield a new weapon. Retreating isn't an option, because you leave w/ no weapon. It's going to be insanely frustrating. 17:12:10 Yea, I've heard the latter before. I'm not sure, especially if it's limited to the blink/tele effects tiny chance of banishment. Makes a spell as annoying as a guardian naga. 17:12:28 /s/guardian naga/guardian serpent/ 17:12:53 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:05 Okay, well, you can make these monsters if you want, but I have severe misgivings about them being a good addition to crawl. 17:13:27 I'd encourage you to think really carefully about the types of gameplay they would create 17:14:10 Lasty_: i thought bcadren made up his changes with no real plan to ever get them into crawl, but rather as an artistic endeavor for bcadrencrawl or whatever 17:14:18 oh 17:14:20 I may have misunderstood 17:14:24 You're right on the tukima's. Probably have to either be a summon or make a spectral copy instead of actually removing the weap. 17:14:28 i may have too 17:14:29 if this is entirely for personal edification, never mind 17:14:38 I just don't want to give false hope 17:16:46 It's partially because I haven't used C++ before and would like to learn a bit...but yea I want to try to make something actually accepted. Gave them something unique. Portalmancer is bad enough with distort melee and summoning abyss stuff, fine switching to energy or having just force lance and no other conjurations, it's a translocations themed monster. 17:17:36 What would be the fun aspects of fighting it? What would it do that other monsters don't already, and why would that create interesting and fun situations? 17:18:07 How would players change their tactics to deal with it? Are those interesting sorts of choices? 17:20:15 -!- Felid_Jinx was kicked from ##crawl-dev by PleasingFungus [Felid_Jinx] 17:20:20 \o/ 17:20:45 wow 17:20:56 I didn't expect that 17:21:00 Lasty_: right under your breath 17:21:02 but that's probably for the best 17:21:22 I would have done that as soon as someone told me he was bcadren, but I didn't have ops 17:21:24 well he's dodging an existing ban 17:21:29 Oh, I didn't realize that 17:21:35 Is there a banlist? 17:21:44 or probably the old ban was just not set very effectively i guess 17:21:59 I have no idea what I'm doing, tbh. I'm a terrible op. 17:22:08 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:12 PleasingFungus: eight rings though! 17:22:28 Lasty_: probably depends on client, i have a "show ban list" thing in the menu 17:22:33 no idea how it's done more generally 17:23:03 -!- Kramin|BNC has quit [Quit: YourBNC - (https://yourbnc.co.uk)] 17:23:06 try /mode ##crawl-dev +b 17:23:14 PleasingFungus: yeah, I just found that too 17:23:20 thanks to my buddy, Google 17:23:28 and my buddy superfly! 17:23:34 hahaha 17:23:41 the problem looks to be that it's a ban by ip 17:23:59 Some banned usernames too 17:24:06 which is more or less useless when everyone gets semi-random addresses via dhcp, even without deliberate evasion 17:24:18 You can ban ranged 17:24:20 er ranges 17:24:27 which solves DHCP wander 17:24:43 sure, but my own external address has ranged between 3 or 4 widely separated ranges 17:24:57 you really want to ban ip ranges wide enough to cover someone? you end up banning whole ISPs 17:25:23 you have no control over how a comcast or etc. will internally allocate their address space 17:25:27 the modern internet is cruel to IRC... 17:26:09 true 17:26:14 and comcast can and has taken a range they were using in (say) california and switched it to pennsylvania 17:26:44 (with a cooldown period to make sure everyone got new addresses, sure --- btu no announcement that they're repurposing it) 17:30:30 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 17:33:25 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:03 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:09 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:10 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:54 Lasty_: re trident of the octopus king, what if it were the trishula of the octopus king 17:37:00 Problem solved! 17:37:03 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:37:17 Clearly it should summon rats when there's tension 17:37:40 I mean, it would stop being ass, and it would still be usable with any god 17:38:09 unlike a dtrident 17:38:10 <|amethyst> you mean a trishula without holy? 17:38:14 yeah 17:38:44 ...hmm, trishulas without holy are still unwieldable by Ds/undead 17:39:18 Just make it a broad axe. :p 17:40:20 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:21 -!- Kramin has left ##crawl-dev 17:40:41 but I don't see the harm in changing that...unless it's somehow possible to encounter a trishula/scourge/eublade with unidentified brand outside of wizmode 17:41:01 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:41:25 My problem w/ the trident isn't that's a terrible weapon (tho it is) 17:41:29 <|amethyst> well, in the case of scourge "sacred" is part of the weapon name 17:41:33 It's that its gimmick basically doesn't exist 17:41:58 ??trident of the octopus king 17:41:58 trident of the octopus king[1/1]: +8 trident of the Octopus King {venom, rElec rPois MR+}. Gains +1 for every {ring of the octopus king} worn. 17:42:00 <|amethyst> and the descriptions would have to be changed 17:42:05 It'd be like having a randart +0 flail that's +15 if you're also wearing the hat of the alchemist. 17:42:17 Lasty_: players would love that! 17:42:25 dpeg: . . . I suppose that's true. 17:42:31 But I don't. :p 17:42:45 I think it'd even out the hullaballoo over Haste spell removal :) 17:42:59 Crawl, now with more combo randarts 17:43:01 +0 club of the Alchemist 17:43:05 Do you think it'd cancel out felid removal outrage? If so, I'll take the hit. 17:43:22 |amethyst: no they wouldn't. unrandarts don't show the description for the normal item 17:43:28 the +0 spatula of the Alchemist 17:43:31 <|amethyst> minmay: oh, good point 17:43:35 <|amethyst> you'll remove felids over three of my dead bodies 17:43:44 |amethyst: oh, are you a fan? 17:43:47 |amethyst: and nobody is talking about adding the sacred scourge of the octopus king 17:43:52 <|amethyst> eh 17:44:14 <|amethyst> I'm not that much of a fan, but I do kind of like them as a player 17:44:15 you'd probably need to rename the regular 'trishula' to 'sacred trishula' or something 17:44:21 five octopus king rings for three felids lives, and that's my last offer 17:44:45 since the name doesn't really imply holiness in the first place and especially wouldn't if trishula of the octopus king is a thing 17:44:51 <|amethyst> yeah 17:45:15 <|amethyst> or could just make it a trident with adjusted stats 17:45:23 <|amethyst> and a fake base type name 17:45:30 <|amethyst> polekatana 17:45:42 +8 bident of the octopus king 17:45:51 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:45:52 bill bec d' bardiche glaive guisarme 17:45:52 <|amethyst> octodent 17:46:03 yeah I suppose that fits the theme better 17:46:05 <|amethyst> bill bec devoe? 17:46:24 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:45 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:46:51 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:59 <|amethyst> !learn add reserved_clan_names Godspeed You Black Draconian (|amethyst) 17:47:59 reserved clan names[5/5]: Godspeed You Black Draconian (|amethyst) 17:48:34 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:56 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:56 |amethyst: didn't you do something like that last time? :P 17:49:05 missing the exclamation point 17:49:16 The triple trident of the octopus king with one missing tine. 17:49:36 <|amethyst> oh that's right 17:49:48 the weapon formerly known as the trident of the octopus king 17:49:48 <|amethyst> I did Godspeed You Emperor Scorpion in 0.14 17:49:53 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:49:54 <|amethyst> !learn del reserved_clan_names[5] 17:49:54 Deleted reserved clan names[5/5]: Godspeed You Black Draconian (|amethyst) 17:50:08 ok, so not quite last time 17:50:15 Never met a Godspeed You Black Emperor reference he didn't like :) 17:50:38 @??emperor scorpion col:black 17:50:38 bad monster colour "black" in "emperor scorpion col:black" 17:51:09 that's a matter of opinion Gretell 17:51:41 :) 17:52:44 <|amethyst> !learn add neil_clans Ynoxinulstellensatz; In the Court of the Crimson Imp; Miranda That Player Ghost Just Isnt Holy Anymore; One Flew Over the Khufus Nest; Godspeed You Emperor Scorpion; Young TrCKs; HuAr You HuHu HuHu 17:52:44 neil clans[1/1]: Ynoxinulstellensatz; In the Court of the Crimson Imp; Miranda That Player Ghost Just Isnt Holy Anymore; One Flew Over the Khufus Nest; Godspeed You Emperor Scorpion; Young TrCKs; HuAr You HuHu HuHu 17:55:35 i just got the second to last one' 17:55:38 -' 17:56:44 -!- Icerose_ is now known as Rasberries 17:57:51 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:59:16 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:57 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:05:01 Red devils can hop backwards around a corner and attack from beyond LOS 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9761 by Berder 18:06:18 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:07:07 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:09:07 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1332-g9db7d08 (34) 18:14:45 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:15:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:11 -!- cojito has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:34 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:19:22 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:35 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:39 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:08 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:53 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:41:45 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:42:09 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:23 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:21 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:46:52 hm, how do i unmarshall away a removed crawlhashtable? you.type_id_props doesn't do anything i'm pretty sure 18:47:25 -!- ohyou has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:34 same as you do it now, just without saving it in you? 18:49:51 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:50:03 <|amethyst> CrawlHashTable junk; junk.read(th); 18:50:41 aha yeah, makes sense 19:01:00 -!- Mottikins_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:58 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:29 -!- GhostSonOfGhost has quit [] 19:14:24 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:22:46 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:24:52 -!- Gorgo1 is now known as Gorgo 19:25:59 is "invokes a dire malice" a new cantrip message 19:26:35 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:26:45 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:06 oh, a new spell cast message 19:27:15 sounds like a syraine speech line that should have been removed 19:28:05 ah, high priest spells apparently 19:28:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:48 oh wait not spells, it is speech 19:29:29 what is bad about it? 19:29:55 "dark malice" sounds cool over here 19:30:39 dpeg: it sounds like it does something and it doesn't 19:30:41 it sounds like it means something scary is happening 19:30:45 when it's just a flavour message, yeah 19:30:48 SPELL:@The_monster@ prays. 19:30:51 SPELL:@The_monster@ mumbles some strange prayers. 19:30:53 SPELL:@The_monster@ intones a terrible prayer. 19:30:56 SPELL:@The_monster@ invokes a dire malice against @foe@. @player_only@ 19:31:06 all of these are apparently regular speech, not spell casts as I originally thought 19:31:14 (I originally thought this because THEY ARE COLOURED AS SPELL CAST MESSAGES) 19:31:21 "invokes a dire lice" better? 19:31:41 so the colouring should be fixed 19:33:15 they still sound moe spell-y than speech-y imo 19:33:18 more* 19:34:37 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:38:19 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:57 ??reserved_clan_names 19:43:58 reserved clan names[1/4]: Imp Discussions [gammafunk] 19:44:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:21 ??reserved_clan_names[2 19:44:21 reserved clan names[2/4]: Dragons onto Firewood [gammafunk] 19:44:36 ??reserved_clan_names[3 19:44:36 reserved clan names[3/4]: Quadratic Screaming [PleasingFungus] 19:44:41 nice 19:45:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1333-g275d24f: Remove unused shadow trap code 10(3 hours ago, 17 files, 18+ 188-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/275d24f1ce14 19:45:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1334-gc6bce7e: Always identify potions quaffed by monsters 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c6bce7efb74b 19:45:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1335-g9240d72: Remove now-unused code for identification states 10(3 days ago, 34 files, 146+ 254-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9240d72bed89 19:46:08 ??resereved clan names[4] 19:46:09 resereved clan names ~ reserved clan names[4/4]: Akrasiac Record 19:48:03 all those -, today is a Red Day 19:49:07 foul crimes committed with a (r)editor 19:49:38 just wait for all the -s from ctele 19:49:42 the true reason to remove it 19:50:01 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:50:25 * dpeg cannot wait for the "Crawl trivialised" comments 19:50:55 not sure whether to squash the branch all into one huge thing, but i need to rebase it and add commit comments and stuff first anyway i guess 19:50:57 and the "crawl becoming unwinnable for players who X" ? 19:51:02 comments, I mean 19:51:44 hrm, it might help wrt fixing bugs if there are multiple commits, assuming those commits seem reasonable to you 19:51:59 gammafunk: yes, "my granny won on her first try", that kind of comment 19:52:15 yeah i did it in separate chunks to make it easier to look back at what i'd done, first the spell then the ring then the duration, or something like that 19:52:31 i don't like squashing it all into one giant commit either 19:52:36 it's more work to go squashing/cleaning up individual commits though, so I understand if you want to just squash the branch 19:53:12 !lg penismuncher 1 19:53:13 1/50. penismuncher the Brawler (L15 TrMo of Yredelemnul), mangled by a stone giant in WizLab (wizlab_lehudib) on 2015-06-02 21:46:34, with 96229 points after 27859 turns and 4:57:52. 19:53:14 i think it's actually split into reasonable commits as-is, just needs more explanatory commit messages 19:53:16 it would be nice rebase it into meaningful chunks, if you don't think the current commits are the right granularity, but as gammafunk says that's work 19:53:32 i'd much rather have it merged as-is without squashing than squashed into one commit though 19:53:34 dpeg: was his very first game (with some advice from tiles people I guess) and he got that far, but I ended that game! 19:54:04 anyway i'll look into that tomorrow probably 19:54:43 and always nice to kill a player with a name like that 19:55:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:15 gammafunk: may I recommend the awesome song "Steel Vagina" to you? 19:57:08 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:57:41 gammafunk: who'd ya kill? 19:57:49 also, you mean irl, right? 19:58:28 Lasty1: penismuncher 19:58:38 -!- Lasty1 is now known as Lasty 19:59:03 wheals: truly, he was the best of us 19:59:03 Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:08:23 where is the code that is responsible for, when you have sacrificed a hand, taking =rF+ off autopickup if you have one? it should do the same for =MP+ at least, and maybe there are others missing 20:08:41 anyone know where the code that makes UC w/ shield randomly take 1 extra delay lives? I've been trying to find it and it doesn't appear to be anywhere I'd expect. 20:08:47 Lasty: ru is yours, right? ^ 20:08:53 Lasty: isn't that penalty gone now? 20:09:01 Oh, did someone already remove it? 20:09:06 Because I was about to :p 20:09:07 oh, maybe i'm thinking of the heavy armour penalty 20:09:14 heavy armour penalty is definitely gone 20:09:38 amalloy: afaik there's no code that automatically changes ring pickup after sacrificing a hand 20:09:40 are any crawl devs in or around san francisco? 20:10:04 It was on my to-do list and I took a cursory stab at it, but decided not to go through with it 20:10:32 Lasty: it seems to, to me. normally if you pick up one =rF+, it's still on autopickup to get you two. but now i have sacrificed a hand, and it is not on autopickup even though i have only one 20:10:38 huh 20:11:05 There's a lua script that gives some special autopickup code, like for evokers 20:11:23 autopickup_exceptions.txt 20:11:34 oh, sure enough 20:11:38 there's one for Ru 20:11:56 Did I add that? I no longer recall. 20:16:27 the shield thing definitely still exists. 20:16:37 but for some reason isn't in handle_phase_attempted() 20:17:13 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:18:12 -!- Chance672 has quit [Quit: Leaving my desktop..... laptop possibly?] 20:22:24 amalloy: do you want to add +mp to the ring list or should I? 20:22:50 Lasty: feel free. i haven't looked for that lua file yet 20:29:49 -!- Cacophony has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:28 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-1336-g8a4e7f5: Remove the random penalty to attack speed for wielding a shield with UC 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a4e7f54fa8b 20:33:28 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-1337-ge651487: Update the list of rings you don't want to autopickup after sacrifice a hand 10(10 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e6514878e089 20:34:16 -!- Gorgo1 is now known as Gorgo 20:37:25 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:25 The build was fixed. (master - 9240d72 #2803 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66136278 20:37:26 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 20:42:21 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:00 -!- Bcadren has quit [Quit: Oh, so they have Internet on computers now!] 20:43:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:43:33 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:45:25 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:22 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:03:41 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:03:45 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:06:21 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:28 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:10 regarding shield-related things, how would people feel if Fo using shield-melding forms retained their shields in the form? 21:09:32 so Fo using bladehands would be able to use their shield, for instance 21:09:52 this is kind of analogous to op not losing their ring slots in forms 21:10:12 so formicid dragon gets a shield? 21:10:18 yeah 21:10:25 that could be cool 21:10:38 btw i think this gc/gsc change is a step too far 21:10:49 in terms of 2h weapon upgrades, 6 skill for 10% more base damage is the worst deal by a lot 21:11:41 DrKe: it's not exactly 6 skill given Og aptitudes 21:11:50 -!- dakonic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:11:57 yeah, but their fighting is great as well 21:11:57 I don't think this is going to feel like much in practice 21:12:06 i would rather stop at 18 and go fighting 21:12:27 esp. in the early game when og is going to have the hardest time 21:12:36 it seems kinda silly to invest in gsc 21:14:49 well gc has to be different from both great maces and gsc, if there's not a significant skill difference like that then what could there be, really 21:14:58 you could keep it and nerf gc damage 21:15:16 i would prefer removing gc, probably, i always thought it was sort of superfluous 21:15:28 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:26 but i don’t think you really achieve parity with 18 v 24 skill 21:16:43 other weapon classes achieve close to 20% base damage increase for a 6 skill investment in 2h 21:17:05 -!- vonhedlund has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:19:15 i mean i guess it’s ok if gc is the more intelligent choice 21:19:20 but i just feel like its a bit much 21:19:25 those other weapon classes aren't basically species-specific though 21:19:44 yeah but i’m not sure why being an ogre would change my decision 21:20:00 those other skill points can still go to a lot of use 21:20:03 especially if im wearing a robe 21:20:05 dodge 21:20:26 well my point is just that it's not really a 6 skill difference 21:20:31 !apt og 21:20:31 Og: Fighting: 3!, Short: -4*, Long: -3*, Axes: -3*, Maces: 3!, Polearms: 0, Staves: -1, Slings: -3, Bows: -3, Xbows: -3, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -1, Shields: -1, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -3, Charms: -3, Summ: -3*, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -3, Earth: -3*, Poison: -3*, Inv: 1, Evo: -2, Exp: 0, HP: 3!, MP: 0 21:20:41 since we mean "6 skill with +3 apt" 21:21:38 i mean yeah it makes it easier to swallow 21:21:43 you have situations like bardiche for merfolk 21:22:05 but why should gsc be that much less dramatic an upgrade than bardiche 21:28:15 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:16 The build was fixed. (master - e651487 #2804 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/66140960 21:28:16 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 21:30:32 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:32:41 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:36:12 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:45 I would be in favour of removing GC or adding some base damage to GSC 21:47:48 but I also don't mind the idea that ogres can now skill to 18 and then come back to GSC quite late in their game as an ultra-late-game weapon 21:49:29 i just think you could tweak the damage or put gsc back at 22 and still achieve the same thing 21:49:44 but with more parity between the two 21:50:23 I can see the point that this was an unneccesarily cruel nerf to gsc 21:50:51 personally I think the dev team suspect me of buffing things on average so I'm not going to support a straight up buff though :P 21:51:10 as in buff to ogres? 21:51:12 or gsc specifically 21:51:28 because i think you have buffed ogres with this change 21:51:29 everything in general, overall with my patches 21:51:46 yes I agree 21:51:56 18 skill 20 damage weapon is really nice 21:52:33 i think it would still be nice if you left gsc at 22 delay 21:52:35 but that’s a straight ogre buff 21:52:46 as opposed to an equivocal one 21:52:52 -!- Piginabag has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:08 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:51 -!- XV88 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 21:59:16 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00:32 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:59 -!- KurzedMetal1 is now known as KurzedMetal 22:08:28 -!- KurzedMetal is now known as Guest55974 22:09:43 -!- Guest55974 is now known as Kurzed 22:09:47 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:11:24 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:14:13 -!- gressup has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:49 !tell marvinpa I've played some more with pbp and I still think the proc rate is too low. The constant damage threshold makes it unlikely in early game and the XL scaling makes it stay bad. What do you think about keeping the effect list the same, but tweaking the proc rate up (and possibly the effect strength down)? 22:15:50 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 22:16:26 !tell marvinpa I've played some more with pbp and I still think the proc rate is too low. The constant damage threshold makes it unlikely in early game and the XL scaling makes it stay bad. What do you think about tweaking the proc rate up (and possibly the effect strengths down)? 22:16:26 chequers: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 22:17:29 elliptic: following spines rework I think it's 1) way too string in early game (spines 1 pre-lair) and still useless in late game. What do you think about changing the skill to scale with XL or something so it's weaker early and stronger late? 22:17:41 elliptic: *way too strong 22:18:25 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:20:27 chequers: I haven't played with it at all, so I don't really know... in general I would prefer just to try tweaking the numbers more rather than make it scale with XL, though 22:20:55 scaling both with XL and with mutation level sounds more complicated to balance 22:22:07 yeah, it would be 22:22:21 right now if you get spines 1 early it will 1-2 shot most enemies 22:22:50 but even spines 3 late maxes at 20dmg 22:22:59 (assuming 0 ac) 22:26:04 maybe the pre-ac damage could be 1d3**level, so 1d3, 1d9, 1d27. Still doesn't scale great in lategame but the early game damage is lower 22:30:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:35:26 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 22:38:26 I have to say "maxes at 20 dmg" doesn't sound at all bad :P 22:39:45 note that Ds gets several facets, you should think of each facet as only 1/5 of the bonus that Ds gets over other species to make up for having slightly substandard apts 22:40:05 any opinions on the gc/gsc thing elliptic 22:40:42 DrKe: what's the current proposal? I made some suggestions here about it several days ago 22:40:47 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:00 both 2h, and gc requires 18 mindelay and gsc 24 skill 22:41:08 its actually in trunk currently 22:41:21 ah, I think that was my suggestion 22:41:32 i feel like it might be going a bit too far 22:41:43 couldnt GC fill a niche leaving GSC at 22? 22:43:22 I imagine it would be fine to leave GSC at 22, though I think almost everyone will train from 18 to 22 by sometime in midgame if so 22:43:51 the upgrade just seems very modest for 6 more skill investment and i kinda see gc as a nobrainer 22:43:57 but maybe that isn’t the worst thing ever 22:44:13 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:06 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:09 IMO it's better to lean towards GC for now given that GSC has been the clear choice forever 22:45:34 for the same reason that we usually try to lean towards having new things added to the game being overpowered rather than underpowered 22:45:37 elliptic: "maxes at 20 dmg" before ac, so it's pretty much 10 damage in late game 22:45:52 or less really. a gelid demonspawn has >20ac 22:46:11 yeah, i see 22:46:34 maybe let people play with it for a bit 22:46:51 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:47:30 chequers: free damage is free damage 22:48:13 of course, i just mean even for 1/5th of a species reason for existence it's a bit crap 22:49:04 well, "up to 50ish damage" passively against anything that melees you sounds fairly silly IMO 22:49:14 like imagine a new species with that as its gimmick 22:49:56 but again I haven't played with new spines at all 22:50:21 is it your ac or the monster’s ac 22:50:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:51:09 -!- xtwvoodoo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:10 i remember spines worked with yours but i also remember that was changed 22:51:57 yeah, spines was awful back when it got much worse if you were wearing heavier armour 22:51:57 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:12 I don't think it's been like that for a while though 22:53:03 10 damage is okay in late game 22:53:09 i guess it turns into a shitty aux attack 22:53:22 which is another ds mutation 22:53:47 though aux attacks benefit from things like stats, slaying, etc 22:53:50 well, an aux attack that works without needing to actually melee 22:54:05 and against multiple monsters at once 22:54:12 does it trigger on multiple attacks per turn 22:54:17 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:54:25 from the same monster 22:54:25 from different monsters 23:02:27 -!- Senjaii has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:05:30 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:04 -!- Cacophony has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:10 -!- Praenomen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:12 one attack per monster per turn 23:26:21 that must be for balance reasons though 23:30:27 also that 10dmg late game is 1/2 of time, so it's effective 5dmg/turn against monsters in melee range 23:30:38 -!- copt has quit [] 23:35:23 -!- OnlyPlaysRandom has quit [Quit: OnlyPlaysRandom] 23:40:04 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:40 !tell wheals what did I break? 23:40:41 bh: OK, I'll let wheals know. 23:44:08 -!- TonyMeatballs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:33 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:46:30 -!- mmazing has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:55:22 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:59:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev