00:01:18 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:03:36 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:44 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:58 -!- jefus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:05:55 -!- seriallo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:14 -!- seriallo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:37 -!- seriallo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:54 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:08:28 -!- jefus_ has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:59 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:12:53 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:54 -!- Sonny_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:18:03 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:40 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 00:21:12 -!- megane has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:17 -!- seriallo_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:38 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-1197-g2d00c63 (34) 00:26:56 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:22 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 00:32:07 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:59 -!- seriallo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:34 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:36:17 -!- ohyou has quit [Quit: ohyou] 00:37:27 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:26 -!- seriallo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:40:07 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 00:41:17 Lasty_: can you tell about making new art props? 00:41:38 Lasty_: specifically, if I want special logic for when the property is applied to items, where do I need to put this? 00:41:52 (I want to create an armour-only property) 00:44:32 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:46:04 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:29 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:49:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:44 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:59:57 -!- seriallo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:42 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:01:22 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:01:53 -!- Gorgo_1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:53 ah -- armour only props are SPARM_ 01:07:32 <|amethyst> SPARM aren't artefact props, they're egos 01:07:33 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:07:35 -!- Moanerette has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:07:50 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1197-g2d00c63 (34) 01:09:28 <|amethyst> chequers: you want _artp_can_go_on_item 01:10:02 -!- OmNomaly has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:56 ah, thanks 01:15:00 !source _artp_can_go_on_item 01:15:00 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc#l592 01:22:20 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:25:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:26:30 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:27:07 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:33:24 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:33:26 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:58 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:34:53 is there a quick way to generate a lot of randarts of a certain class? 01:35:06 &% &+ is slow 01:35:27 <|amethyst> &%any weapon randart 01:35:56 <|amethyst> though you'll sometimes get unrands, and occasionally non-artefacts (for some reason) 01:36:11 <|amethyst> you can also do &%dagger randart 01:36:13 ah 01:36:19 perfect 01:37:55 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:45 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:14 -!- seriallo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:45:04 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:45:39 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:46:23 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:48:39 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:50 -!- CrayRabbit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:04:02 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 02:04:46 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:13:57 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:14:35 -!- akumaks has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:28:16 -!- driftwood_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:29:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:30:15 -!- akumaks1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:37:45 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:43:27 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:57 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:57:19 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:57:46 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:33 !function monster_die 03:02:33 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc#l1736 03:08:56 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:27 -!- ohyou has quit [Client Quit] 03:12:15 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:14:44 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 03:17:02 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:14 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1197-g2d00c63 (34) 03:22:58 -!- akumaks has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:28:08 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:28:10 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:39 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:14 -!- ruwin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:40:11 -!- captainkilljoy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:40:13 man, i really need to set up ccache 03:40:22 modifying header files without it is a drag 03:48:14 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:01 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:10 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:50:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:35 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:37 -!- iownall555 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:05 Hi there. I seem to be having an issue with one of the crawl-common files for Debian (version 0.16.1-1 to be specific). 03:56:19 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:56:53 hi 03:57:26 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:40 For some reason, the .deb file won't install either through apt-get or dpkg, both times due to a hash mismatch. 04:01:01 you're grabbing from https://crawl.develz.org/debian ? 04:01:18 which deb file? 04:01:36 Yes. http://crawl.develz.org/debian/pool/0.16/c/crawl/crawl-common_0.16.1-1_all.deb 04:02:17 i don't have a debian machine to test on, but when I odwnload the md5 is e672e73dfff86cb8d013f4ad2b89e8d8 04:03:15 which does indeed seem different to the mentioned 944111d0af4b2b737a121138e388196f 04:03:21 It wouldn't even open in a package manager. And I'm getting the same hash as well. 04:03:29 |amethyst: i'm not sure who looks after the deb mirror, but ^ 04:09:24 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:09:44 <|amethyst> hmm 04:09:52 <|amethyst> xz: (stdin): Compressed data is corrupt 04:11:03 <|amethyst> yeah, and dat/des/portals/ziggurat.des is definitely screwed up 04:11:13 <|amethyst> I think gammafunk packaged it? 04:11:44 It's weird though because I installed 0.16 yesterday and it worked fine. However when I tried today after I reinstalled Debian it doesn't work. 04:11:54 Unless there was a quick bugfix or something. 04:11:56 <|amethyst> !tell gammafunk was it you who made the .debs? there seems to be corruption in crawl-common_0.16.1-1_all.deb, possibly a flipped bit on CDO? 04:11:56 |amethyst: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 04:12:14 <|amethyst> iownall555: that file should not have been updated in over 2 months 04:12:19 <|amethyst> according to the server timestamps 04:12:24 yeah not sure 04:12:25 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:12:32 I did test install them at the time 04:12:37 <|amethyst> gammafunk: do you still have the one you built? 04:12:44 Odd. 04:12:45 yeah I should 04:12:49 <|amethyst> check its md5sum 04:13:00 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Quit: *ollies out*] 04:13:13 <|amethyst> in case it is CDO disk corruption or something 04:17:02 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:25 I get 944111d0af4b2b737a121138e388196f 04:17:44 on said common file on the pbuilder-built package 04:17:54 guess cdo crashes did affect something 04:18:16 Ahh server issues? 04:18:19 -!- Idolo has quit [] 04:18:30 well we don't exactly know yet 04:19:45 <|amethyst> Napkin: hm, have there been disk issue since 23 March? crawl-common_0.16.1-1_all.deb is corrupt (fails md5sum, and data.tar.xz gives an error on decompressing) 04:22:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I'd go ahead and replace the .deb on CDO, and keep a copy of the broken one for potential analysis 04:22:08 ok 04:22:15 hrm, wonder if any others are messed up 04:22:31 guess it's just case-by case 04:22:43 <|amethyst> given that it's a corrupt xz rather than something being substituted, I don't think it's likely to be an intrusion or anything 04:23:22 oh, yeah, I guess that's something to at least think about 04:25:20 yeah there's still a copy of what I updloaded to cdo in ~/upload/deb-files 04:25:26 and the md5 of said file looks ok 04:25:58 and they have a timestamp very close to that in the pool dir 04:27:01 |amethyst: should I move the broken one anywhere in particular? 04:27:33 the originals are in ~/upload/deb-files if you'd like to move yourself 04:29:53 iownall555: ok, the file is updated, hopefully it installs now 04:30:38 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:54 Napkin: said corrupted file is at ~/crawl-common_0.16.1-1_all.deb.corrupted if that's of interest 04:32:11 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:14 -!- megane has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:33:00 <|amethyst> gammafunk: that seems to be the only debian package with a bad checksum 04:33:25 -!- ohyou has quit [Client Quit] 04:33:31 hrm, yeah hopefully it's not some hacking attempt, since that's the one that goes on all archs :) 04:33:43 It's installed perfectly now. Thanks. 04:34:09 iownall555: what distribution, by the way? 04:34:15 a rare debian user, caught in the wild! 04:34:45 Debian 8 amd64 04:34:54 ah, ok 04:35:06 <|amethyst> well, crawl_0.10.4-0~1_amd64.deb exists but isn't in the corresponding Packages file 04:35:07 is debian using numbers a new thing? 04:35:37 <|amethyst> and the 0.8 files are missing from the pool 04:36:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, but they did stop using the middle number for releases a while ago 04:36:31 <|amethyst> so Jessie is 8 rather than 8.0 or 6.2 or whatever 04:37:56 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 04:38:36 I'm on ubunut 04:38:38 u 15 04:38:42 .04 04:39:00 well that sentence just didn't come out right at all 04:39:11 Prior to about this year I used to use Arch 04:39:34 debian 8 was a big deal because of systemd, I gather 04:41:14 I would assume so. I don't dig around in the internals of Linux enough to worry about what init system is being used. 04:42:33 good news is I really don't have notes on how I did the build with cowbuilder, and the commands I used are now gone from my shell history, so I get to figure out part of that again 04:42:48 going to take notes next time and put it in the release doc, or something 04:44:01 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:45:16 -!- mibe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:45:23 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:45:55 but I guess that's great that they install on debian 8, so they must have all the sdl2 packages that previous stable didn't have 04:46:26 will make creating packages a lot easier from now on, since we can just use debian stable (assuming we don't add new dependencies that aren't included) 04:47:55 Also I just remembered something. In the tiles version of 16.1 the cursor seems to stick every so often. 04:49:12 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:49:16 cursor being the mouse? 04:49:45 there's a known bug where occassional as you play the mouse thinks control is being held 04:50:03 and hitting control will get control unstuck 04:50:11 Hmm that could be it. 04:50:31 we don't really have active SDL devs so no one has gotten around to fixing it, sorry 04:50:49 but it's definitely something we think about fixing from time to time! 04:51:45 It's not game breaking or anything so it's all good. 04:59:14 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:02:35 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:14 !messages 05:04:15 (1/4) |amethyst said (17h 26m 17s ago): I looked into the scoring schema and it doesn't look trivial to make a game "not count" once it's already in the db 05:07:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19:42 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:28:19 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:28:57 -!- iownall555 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:32:14 -!- rophy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:08 -!- bleak_fire_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:46 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:59:53 -!- Elsi has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:00 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:09 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:18 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:21:27 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:45 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:32:13 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:37:47 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:40:14 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:56 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:53 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 06:55:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:28 is there any c++ tool that will reformat my code? 06:57:48 return (item_class != OBJ_WEAPONS || item_attack_skill(item) == SK_SHORT_BLADES) && !_artp_sk_conflict(prop, extant_props); <-- i'd like a tool to automatically rewrap this 06:57:52 and so on 07:04:36 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:05:52 -!- driftwood_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:48 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:10:53 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:25 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:19:27 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:01 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:21:16 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:30:08 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:30:10 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:31:12 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:36:20 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:21 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:37:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:35 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:51 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:54:40 -!- CcS has quit [Client Quit] 07:56:12 -!- Angry_Kobold has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:57:47 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:00:23 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:03:26 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:04:59 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:05:11 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:08 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10:33 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:26:03 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:31:16 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 08:31:32 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:13 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 08:37:00 -!- Zargon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:38:51 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:40:22 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:08 -!- driftwood_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:47:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:55:58 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:57 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:04:23 -!- Elsi has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:09:28 -!- Elsi has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:05 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:14:01 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:17:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:53 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:49 -!- yottam has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:31:06 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:39 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:37:16 -!- ly^ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:44:31 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:12 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:14 -!- lessens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:15 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:14 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:03 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:53:36 New branch created: pull/49 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/49 09:53:36 03chequers02 07[pull/49] * 0.17-a0-1198-g2c26738: Add +weapon skill as artefact properties. 10(9 hours ago, 8 files, 154+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c26738c2fb0 09:53:48 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:58:35 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:03 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:03:51 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:07:53 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:06 -!- rophy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:03 chequers: I'm not sure how I feel about +skill randart properties, but why only weapon skills? 10:25:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:12 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:32:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:33:39 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:16 -!- trystero has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:55:25 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:56:07 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 11:08:16 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:10 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:38 -!- radinms_ has quit [] 11:24:04 -!- copt has quit [] 11:37:05 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:37:18 +skills on weapons is interesting but I wonder if they should always come with a downside. like a -skills on other skills. like -HP or -Dodging 11:37:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:34 -!- medicplz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:49:48 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:34 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:51:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 11:51:43 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:49 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 11:52:43 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:45 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:46 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:56:49 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:59:12 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:01:19 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:03:22 <|amethyst> chequers: you could avoid those huge chains of ifs with functions to convert between SK_* and ARTP_SK_* (which could use subtraction, addition, and a cast for example) 12:03:22 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:05:08 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 it's a database holding all the logfiles for all the servers, as well as information derived from that, such as (relevant here) streaks and streak-breaking games 12:05:08 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 12:05:23 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 it does not seem to be very normalised at all: https://github.com/neilmoore/dcss_scoring/blob/master/database.sql\ 12:05:23 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 12:05:35 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 err, without the stray backslash: https://github.com/neilmoore/dcss_scoring/blob/master/database.sql 12:05:35 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 12:05:42 chequers: what do you mean by rewrap? there's a tool called checkwhite in source/util/ that will do some restylying for you 12:06:17 (which i always forget to use) 12:06:37 <|amethyst> that won't break lines, though, which I think is what chequers wants 12:07:00 <|amethyst> but if you are writing code and are writing the same thing seven times, that's a good indication that there's a better way to do it 12:07:51 -!- rophy has quit [Client Quit] 12:08:25 |amethyst: maybe. i thought chequers might mean, line things up after manually inserting a newline 12:08:42 <|amethyst> it won't do that either 12:08:51 oh. well that is not a helpful suggestion then 12:08:53 <|amethyst> usually you'd use your editor for that 12:09:03 <|amethyst> e.g. in vim press == 12:09:38 <|amethyst> though it takes some configuration to get your editor to have the right idea about how things should be indented 12:10:06 sure, indeed i would. speaking of, is there a .dirlocals.el somewhere? it'd be nice to have emacs automatically know the right settings 12:10:42 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:12:12 if not, maybe i will try to put one together. a quality-of-life thing to help new contributors with formatting, if they're using emacs 12:19:07 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:19:39 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 12:19:40 <|amethyst> sounds reasonable, but I am a little wary about adding a .dirlocals.el in the source dir 12:20:17 <|amethyst> but having a file in dat/emacs/ or misc/emacs/ or something, that people can choose to drop in, sounds good 12:21:46 okay 12:22:09 <|amethyst> misc/emacs/ makes the most sense I think, but dat/vim/ already exists so... 12:22:31 <|amethyst> (it doesn't have indent rules, though, only a syntax file for .des format) 12:23:22 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzafk 12:24:22 <|amethyst> oh great 12:25:47 <|amethyst> there is a PCRE exploit out apparently 12:27:21 <|amethyst> the CVE is unreleased, and no patch appears to be out 12:27:53 <|amethyst> fortunately CSZO and CAO at least dynamically link it 12:28:17 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:28:23 goodness. have a link, |amethyst? 12:28:53 <|amethyst> http://www.securitytracker.com/id/1032453 12:29:02 pcre exploit should be a big deal for like everyone everywhere. not sure if that is better or worse than one in bash 12:30:54 <|amethyst> I guess we tell people "don't run older versions of the windows builds of crawl" 12:31:07 <|amethyst> or at least don't use rcs you didn't write yourself 12:31:57 |amethyst: just windows? surely this applies on unix too, for stuff in apt or whatever 12:32:19 <|amethyst> I don't think our .debs use PCRE 12:32:30 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:32:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:33:40 <|amethyst> and if they did, it would be dynamically linked 12:34:43 <|amethyst> ah, they are dynamically linked against PCRE these days 12:34:50 <|amethyst> so not our problem 12:34:59 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:04 <|amethyst> but Windows builds are statically linked, so that is our problem 12:35:08 <|amethyst> I'm not sure about OS X 12:35:34 <|amethyst> geekosaur: do you happen to know if the official OS X packages are statically or dynamically linked against PCRE, or neither? 12:35:45 <|amethyst> s/if/whether/ 12:36:05 dynamic since it's Apple's pcre libs and Apple does not support static linking 12:36:15 <|amethyst> ah, good 12:36:27 <|amethyst> wasn't sure if it used contrib/ 12:37:00 (I think, would need to boot vm and verify. possibly I determined that I needed to use contrib anyway in which case I will need to dig deeper) 12:37:26 (unfortunately I have 2 customer tickets to wrangle today and am on a call about one right now, although not active) 12:37:31 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:37 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:38:02 <|amethyst> no worries 12:38:21 <|amethyst> it doesn't really matter until there's a new PCRE1 available anyway 12:39:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:45:34 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:51 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:54 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:52 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:54 -!- st__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:03 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:13 -!- darin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:31 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:16 ok, I think one ticket is getting taken away from me, yay. (but the other is becoming annoying) 12:56:59 (also there's zero chance that older Macs will get any update to PCRE; 10.9 and 10.10 only is most likely, 10.8 might, 10.7 (oldest supported by the build) will not 12:57:50 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:03:49 -!- st__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:04 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:32 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:10:39 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:15 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:16 -!- zero_one has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:43 -!- driftwood_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:15:57 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 13:18:29 so, it looks like I disabled PCRE completely after running into problems with Apple's 13:18:35 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1197-g2d00c63 (34) 13:18:36 (missing header IIRC) 13:18:47 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 13:21:34 there is no pcre in the os x sdk 13:21:48 there is libpcre in the system because it's a dependency for the php pcre extension, I presume 13:22:30 -!- megane has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:30 or maybe not even that 13:23:42 maybe it used to be part of it and the library is kept around for compatibility only 13:24:36 ah no, php indeed links it 13:24:47 -!- zero_one has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:59 but yeah, it's not in the SDK, so just ship one in your app bundle 13:27:00 Lasty_: here? 13:27:00 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:28:52 yeh, that was more or less what I found 13:29:22 (had only tried it because I'd spotted the library in the base system; I didn't waste much time on it. which in this case is a good thing) 13:30:28 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 13:30:56 dpeg: yep! 13:38:07 Lasty_: I was toying with a c-r-d mail about minmay's id suggestions. Do you think that's reasonableß 13:38:11 ß = ? 13:43:03 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 13:46:46 Absolutely. I think his recommendations are mostly good, tho again my preferences for how monster ID works are a little different 13:47:06 When I have more time I may work on implementing some of them 13:50:13 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:50:22 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:53 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:23 -!- st__ is now known as st_ 13:55:06 Lasty_: cool, so I will just tell people to have a look at his thread... now sadly derailed (and I did my part in that! :) 13:56:47 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:27 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:01:43 haha 14:02:15 -!- Weretaco has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:04:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:06:37 |amethyst: which file should i use to suggest that emacs create .dir-locals.el as a symlink to dat/emacs/dir-locals? 14:09:10 it looks like there is currently no such recommendation for vim's .des syntax definition; i can add that as well, if someone tells me how you're supposed to use it 14:10:14 <|amethyst> hm 14:10:17 i guess there's already a header in dat/vim/syntax/levdes.vim telling you how to use it, but nothing telling you to look for that file 14:11:13 <|amethyst> I would also add /source/.dir-locals.el to .gitignore (which is in crawl-ref/ for some reason) 14:11:24 |amethyst: yes, of course 14:11:39 <|amethyst> hm, somewhere under docs/develop/ 14:11:46 <|amethyst> maybe emacs_tips.txt ? :) 14:12:11 i'll call it editor_tips.txt, and put the vim and emacs suggestions both there 14:14:44 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:14:49 -!- ldf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:48 Real men draw their vaults in Notepad. 14:19:16 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:19:42 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 14:20:01 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:19 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22:06 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 14:23:13 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:27:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:49 New branch created: pull/50 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/50 14:36:49 03amalloy02 07[pull/50] * 0.17-a0-1198-g2edf1b1: Create a .dir-locals.el file for emacs users 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2edf1b18ce3c 14:36:49 03amalloy02 07[pull/50] * 0.17-a0-1199-g533c094: Create editor_tips.txt, with vim/emacs setup tips 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/533c094d1778 14:39:09 <|amethyst> isn't bsd closer than linux? 14:39:20 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 14:40:47 |amethyst: i wasn't sure. i couldn't really tell what the various styles do, and the only obvious change introduced was that it indents braces reasonably 14:40:52 <|amethyst> hm 14:40:56 if you'd rather set a different style, that's fine with me 14:42:04 i think it would make a bigger difference with electric bindings for ( and so on, or if you asked to reformat a line containing (. are ( electric by default? maybe i turned that off a while ago and forgot about it 14:45:09 <|amethyst> oh, that's right, C-M-q doesn't cuddle/uncuddle { } anyway 14:57:25 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:59:41 <|amethyst> I'll leave that for someone who has done cc-mode customization more recently than 15 years ago 15:01:13 i'll just keep editing crawl code like an oaf, and if emacs ever surprises me by doing something that's against the crawl style i'll see if there's a way i can fix it 15:05:15 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:40 03amalloy02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.17-a0-1198-gc5b4bab: Create a .dir-locals.el file for emacs users 10(51 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c5b4babc60e9 15:12:40 03amalloy02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.17-a0-1199-gfe29acd: Create editor_tips.txt, with vim/emacs setup tips 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fe29acdd7c1f 15:12:40 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1200-g8a3fdf5: Add vim indentation options to editor_tips.txt 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a3fdf52fb5d 15:12:40 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1201-g2aa3c8f: Mention ~/.vim/ftdetect/ as an option in levdes.vim. 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2aa3c8f217d3 15:12:57 <|amethyst> doh 15:13:05 <|amethyst> I added the wrong pull request number 15:13:37 <|amethyst> fortunately #20 was already closed :) 15:15:12 i wonder what happens if you revert a commit with "closes #20" in its title. does the issue get re-opened? re-closed? left alone? 15:15:23 <|amethyst> Heh 15:16:54 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:18 -!- stanzafk is now known as stanzill 15:19:19 -!- Weretaco has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:22:27 -!- serq has quit [Quit: und weg...] 15:24:25 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:29:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 15:29:59 _With Pikel's spell broken, the former slaves thank you for their freedom 15:30:03 this message is missing a period now 15:32:27 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 15:33:35 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:33:42 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1202-g2dd280d: Add a missing full stop (minmay) 10(54 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2dd280d5ade8 15:37:23 <|amethyst> Sequell !learn edit wizmode_check[1] s/\$1/\\$1/ 15:37:26 <|amethyst> !learn edit wizmode_check[1] s/\$1/\\$1/ 15:37:26 wizmode check[1/2]: sh + perl to check whether a save is wizmode: wizard() { crawl -edit-save "\$1" get chr - | perl -e 'undef $/; exit !(unpack "CCl>cs>/a*s>/a*cccs>/a*cs>/a*c", <>)[-1]'; } 15:37:31 <|amethyst> ??wizmode_check 15:37:32 wizmode check[1/2]: sh + perl to check whether a save is wizmode: wizard() { crawl -edit-save "$1" get chr - | perl -e 'undef $/; exit !(unpack "CCl>cs>/a*s>/a*cccs>/a*cs>/a*c", <>)[-1]'; } 15:37:49 <|amethyst> !learn q wizmode_check 15:37:50 wizmode check[1/2]: sh + perl to check whether a save is wizmode: wizard() { crawl -edit-save "\$1" get chr - | perl -e 'undef $/; exit !(unpack "CCl>cs>/a*s>/a*cccs>/a*cs>/a*c", <>)[-1]'; } 15:41:54 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:44 -!- seriallos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:54 hrm, I set up my cc mode a bit differently 15:55:58 gammafunk: mine is pretty spartan, but better than no setup at all. if you have some variables to set that are better, i would welcome an addition to dir-locals that i can use 15:56:14 well I don't use dir-locals, I instead use: 15:57:01 http://sprunge.us/GPfN 15:57:10 sure, i didn't expect that you use dir-locals now; most people don't bother. but to make it usable to everyone automatically without affecting their other projects, dir-locals is the cleanest thing i could think of 15:57:57 not sure if basing it off the linux style means those c-offsets-alist are unneeded 15:58:21 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:11 mmm. it's harder to use yours, because you can't run arbitrary code from a dir-locals 16:00:41 arbitrary code? 16:00:48 well you're calling c-add-style 16:01:05 sure, just goes in .emacs 16:01:33 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01:50 I'm not really recommending that over dir-locals I guess, only the style differeces matter 16:01:53 *differences 16:01:53 oh, sure. you could create the style in .emacs, and activate it from the dir-local 16:02:13 right, all that code is currently in my .emacs 16:02:39 but this only works because all my crawl repos are ~/Documents/Games/crawl-foo for some value of foo 16:02:48 the thing with the style differences is that i think, although i could be wrong, it's not possible to set the style to a variant of another style just via setting variables: you have to create the variant style first, via c-add-style, and then load it 16:03:14 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:28 yeah probably so; I think it really only comes down to "is one style more correct" 16:03:38 like I don't know how the linux style is wrt case 16:03:42 *case statements 16:04:42 I have a similar setup for crawl js 16:04:53 although I'm not sure if that's actually working 16:05:31 gammafunk: it appears to be the same as crawl's style for case, in that it i ask it to reindent a switch/case it leaves it as-is 16:05:59 that's good. I can't remember what the substatement open one did 16:06:18 gammafunk: it fixes the outrageous behavior for if (x) \n { 16:06:22 which was to indent the { 16:06:41 (and is included in the linux style) 16:07:36 well there you go. I know there are some other indentation quirks I've seen in emacs wrt C++, I'll have to remember to note them the next time I see them, but they seem to show up rarely 16:07:54 anyhow I'll still with my approach since it requires no setup for new crawl repos :) 16:10:06 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:16:07 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:26:44 does anyone know why trapdoor spiders will jump out of the floor and then instantly hide again 16:27:33 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:16 !function _monster_move 16:30:16 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc#l74 16:30:30 might be because of that function, but there are other possibilities 16:32:18 minmay: so i think if they jump out of the floor because of noise, but don't see you (you're invisible, or pass the stealth check), then every turn they can't see you they have a 1/5 chance of hiding 16:32:31 ah 16:33:12 well then it's dumb that you can't see where the spider is in that case 16:33:26 since it never gets drawn 16:33:41 !vault evilmike_haunted_forest 16:33:41 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des#l1696 16:33:48 not that you don't already know where it is, but it's the principle of the thing 16:33:52 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:14 there are other cases like that too though, like if you walk into view of a monster and it walks out of your sight you just get "x comes into view. x moves out of view." or whatever the messages are 16:34:21 and it's never drawn, so you don't know where it was 16:34:28 that one bothers me more 16:34:33 yeah that one is pretty awful 16:34:49 also you might be able to circumvent them with force mores or something? 16:35:58 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:28 amalloy: that one occurs since eternity. I cannot even say whether it's different incarnations. 16:37:43 i agree with dpeg that monsters should never resubmerge 16:37:59 cool :) 16:39:11 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: food] 16:40:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:15 -!- megane has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:48:54 hey, did anyone see the polymer 1.0 release? https://www.polymer-project.org/1.0/ 16:51:07 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:51:52 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:28 -!- seriallos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:05 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:41 <|amethyst> IIRC we explicitly avoid announcing monsters that enter and leave view on the same turn 16:55:13 <|amethyst> I think that is newish 16:55:22 <|amethyst> compared to not drawing them 16:59:14 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:00:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 17:02:22 -!- carwin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:36 hrm, do we indicate default param values in our doxygen comments? 17:02:47 or would doxygen generate that info itself 17:02:54 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:56 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:04:40 -!- TR_Muscateer has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:40 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:50 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08:44 elliptic: Do you have any opinion on the idea in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/48 (make giant clubs into a one-handed weapon). I'm not sure it's a workable idea or if the existance of giant clubs and giant spiked clubs is truly problematic 17:09:33 It does seem to me that we don't really need both weapon types 17:09:44 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:11:31 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:29 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:34 Lasty_: i didn't want to write all the code for all skills up front -- i definitely see props existing for all skills 17:17:21 |amethyst: one catch with that conversion is it needs the artp and sk list to be in the same order and contiguous, right? (probably doable though... good idea) 17:17:42 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:50 and yeah, I wanted something that would break my code at 80chars in the appropriate way 17:17:58 <|amethyst> chequers: yes, but I believe other things already assume contiguity of weapon skills 17:18:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:18:17 <|amethyst> chequers: you'd definitely want a comment on each of the enums 17:18:53 <|amethyst> oh 17:18:57 <|amethyst> unarmed is a problem 17:19:08 <|amethyst> well, you might have to handle that one separately 17:19:50 not so bad 17:20:43 i already added ARTP_SK_LAST to hint i was itreating over the items in-order 17:21:03 <|amethyst> you probably also want ARTP_SK_FIRST 17:21:27 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:31 yeah. i'll make this change if people like the idea in general 17:21:32 <|amethyst> and likely SK_LAST_MELEE_WEAPON = SK_STAVES 17:21:37 do YOU like it? :) 17:22:27 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:57 <|amethyst> I dunno, haven't played with it 17:23:11 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:23:14 <|amethyst> I think weapons giving bonuses to their own skills is kind of weird 17:23:37 <|amethyst> but makes sense 17:25:03 <|amethyst> I don't like adding so many different ARTPs 17:25:46 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 17:25:52 <|amethyst> if you're willing to give up variable numbers, you could make one ARTP with the parameter being the skill 17:25:53 -!- TonyMeatballs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:59 <|amethyst> the skill's enum value I mean 17:26:24 <|amethyst> and then you could support more skills when appropriate 17:26:25 <|amethyst> but 17:26:26 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:35 <|amethyst> it feels kind of like an unrand thing to me 17:26:35 !seen bh 17:26:35 I last saw bh at Tue Jun 2 03:21:18 2015 UTC (18h 5m 17s ago) saying '!tell |amethyst The domino set that we're using is trivially colored. If it's falling back to the solver, that's a bug' on ##crawl-dev. 17:26:45 <|amethyst> not sure about it as a randomly-generated property 17:26:54 <|amethyst> also no idea about the numbers, should run some stats on it 17:27:22 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:27:55 <|amethyst> and why 1/6 rather than 1/7 on armour? 17:28:52 well, i aimed for the props appearing on 1/10 randarts 17:29:03 those numbers are pretty much imperically derived 17:29:29 <|amethyst> 1/10 is kind of a lot 17:29:30 and yeah, i wanted to support + & - skill, so it seems i need one enum entry per skill 17:30:37 in total, it's about 2/3 the rate of the the new props from lasty -- but i can change that number easy 17:30:38 <|amethyst> like, why should +skill be more common than +fly, *Rage, Slaying, etc 17:30:47 <|amethyst> hm 17:31:05 <|amethyst> I was thinking for a weapon it would be as common as rCorr 17:31:27 heh, personally i sort of think weapons are the more interesting version 17:31:28 <|amethyst> since the relevant artp for that weapon has the same weight as rCorr 17:31:45 <|amethyst> the reason I was thinking 1/7 17:31:50 <|amethyst> is that their are seven possible skills 17:31:54 <|amethyst> s/their/there/ 17:32:04 well, basically i generated hundreds of &%any weapon randart and any armour randart and about 10% have props 17:32:24 <|amethyst> &% any weapon includes ranged, no? 17:32:57 <|amethyst> I was thinking 1/7 so the chance of getting one of the props on an armour is the same as getting the correct prop on a weapon 17:33:24 -!- ohyou has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:42 good point 17:34:43 well, that change sounds fine 17:34:44 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:07 if I add props for all skills though, maybe i should change how these props are added to make the logic a bit simpler 17:35:42 clearly add props for each skill amount and have the value of the prop be which skill it is 17:35:50 (building on |amethyst's suggestion) 17:35:58 -!- onrul has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:03 ;o 17:36:14 gammafunk: I think giant clubs are not great at the moment but I don't like making them 1-handed 17:36:28 -!- megane has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:53 elliptic: hi that was my idea 17:36:58 <|amethyst> also, I feel kind of like +2 to +5 is a pretty big range 17:37:06 gammafunk: because I prefer "ogres use GSC or dwhip or eveningstar" to "ogres use GSC or GC" 17:37:13 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:37:32 <|amethyst> could make GSC rarer, so it's the triple blade of ogres 17:37:32 yeah 17:37:56 well the difference between GSC and GC isn't the same as e.g. great sword / triple sword 17:38:21 IMO the simplest change would be to increase GSC base delay 17:38:34 ??giant_spiked_club 17:38:34 giant spiked club[1/4]: (maces & flails; -7 acc / 22 dam / 1.8 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A giant lump of wood with sharp spikes at one end. The only playable races that can wield giant spiked clubs are Ogres and Trolls. 17:38:38 it already needs 22 skill 17:38:48 yeah it could be like bardiches 17:38:49 ??giant club 17:38:50 giant club[1/2]: (maces & flails; -6 acc / 20 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A giant lump of wood. The only playable races that can wield giant clubs are Ogres and Trolls. 17:38:57 the triple blade of ogres.... 17:39:01 chequers: which is only a bit more than giant club 17:39:02 give it 2.1 base delay 17:39:10 PleasingFungus: the triple-club of ogres... 17:39:17 gammafunk: just 1.9 base delay might be enough 17:39:19 how did you know my suggestion!!! 17:39:22 actually yeah, that's sort of a cool idea 17:39:35 26 skill mindelay 17:39:41 chimera (ogre, ogre, ogre) (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 18-35 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Dam: 17, 17, 17 | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 114 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 17:39:41 %??ogre-ogre-ogre chimera name:three-headed-ogre 17:39:42 yeah, that sounds pretty reasonable 17:39:44 maybe 2.0 base delay is better though, yes 17:39:56 maybe it should be wget +dmg though then 17:40:14 chimera (three-headed-ogre, ogre, ogre) (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 18-35 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Dam: 17, 17, 17 | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 114 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 17:40:14 %??ogre-ogre-ogre chimera name:three-headed-ogre n_rpl 17:40:20 well that's not right 17:40:34 wow, 5-headed ogre, nice 17:40:35 I sort of like making giant club 1.6 and GSC 1.9 17:40:45 and not changing damage for either 17:40:57 18 & 24 skill 17:41:10 are you excited for complaining 17:41:10 ??great mace 17:41:10 great mace[1/1]: (maces & flails; -4 acc / 17 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). An enormous metal war club, of great cumbrousness. The largest mace most playable races can wield. Ogres and Trolls can wield giant (spiked) clubs too. 17:41:32 so giant club would be for the casual clubber and GSC for the serious one :P 17:41:37 GC needing less skill than great mace is ok? 17:41:57 yeah because it's og/tr-only 17:42:23 not that it really matters for og with that aptitude though... 17:42:29 <|amethyst> ogre's never going to use great mace anyway so it doesn't matter 17:42:41 <_miek> you might do in the very early game 17:42:52 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:02 where are you finding very early game great maces? 17:43:04 <|amethyst> if you find a great mace before a gc? 17:43:20 <|amethyst> I guess you might find a nice brand on a wight 17:43:23 you might find an early one 17:43:32 wights get great maces? rip 17:43:52 <|amethyst> oh, no 17:43:53 anyway either changing GC and GSC delays to 1.6 and 1.9 or just changing GSC delay to 2.0 and giving it +1 dam seem fine to me 17:44:08 wights: moving weapon shops that can kill you, but which have very low prices 17:44:13 -!- megane has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:44:16 <_miek> well for example I was using a +5 dflail on my OgBe because trog gave it to me before I had anything better than a +0 gsc 17:44:23 i am super keen on the latter 17:44:28 because more damage = better 17:44:29 <_miek> so in times like that 17:44:30 the former seems like the less invasive change 17:44:35 <_miek> I guess thats actually pretty niche though 17:44:40 <|amethyst> chequers: I do think -skill on armour/jewellery probably should go 17:44:45 <|amethyst> chequers: since it's so likely to be irrelevant 17:44:52 gsc damage is already insane 17:45:05 <|amethyst> chequers: on weapons it makes sense 17:45:05 |amethyst: true 17:45:13 |amethyst: -armour skill! 17:45:15 <|amethyst> chequers: or 17:45:30 <|amethyst> chequers: combine all the +skill into a single prop (always +3 or +4 or whatever) 17:45:36 <|amethyst> chequers: then add another prop for -allskills 17:45:51 I did consider a +1 all skills prop 17:45:51 <|amethyst> or -allmeleeskills, whatever 17:46:16 <|amethyst> swappable ashenzari :P 17:46:29 <|amethyst> +all skills is probably too good for randarts 17:46:32 yeah! perfect for the octopus king set right?? 17:48:37 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:48:54 -!- megane has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:12 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:50:16 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:49 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:51:14 i updated the gc PR https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/48 17:51:52 i'll sit on the +skill PR changes for a bit until i find out if other devs want to scotch the idea or not 17:52:31 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:32 yeah I'm almost done with all my "give xp checks" cleanups 17:54:39 then the PbD thing can go in 17:55:07 -!- wheals has quit [Client Quit] 17:55:16 have to figure out a couple things, like what happens to e.g. tukima weapons when they get banished 17:55:19 03chequers02 07[pull/48] * 0.17-a0-1198-g1e3ea62: Tweak Giant (Spiked) Club base delays. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1e3ea624d538 17:55:29 -!- NJP has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:55:29 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:23 -!- megane has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:56:43 !gamesby . og 17:56:44 gammafunk (og) has played 3 games, between 2013-07-22 04:14:13 and 2013-08-04 09:03:55, won 1 (33.3%), high score 1336945, total score 1343036, total turns 145359, play-time/day 1:31:37, total time 21:22:38. 17:56:57 !won gammafunk og 17:56:58 gammafunk (og) has won once in 3 games (33.33%): 1xOgAr 17:57:02 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:57:08 :) 17:57:10 OGAR STRONG OGAR SMASH! 17:57:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:24 !lg * title=green_ogre 17:57:26 1. wheals the Green Ogre (L27 OgAs of Fedhas), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-05-28 12:31:02, with 1430503 points after 96052 turns and 3:37:43. 17:57:29 dang 17:57:34 still secure 17:57:53 you're like a fire giant with that monster colour bug 17:57:59 kinda 17:59:33 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:00:33 -!- TonyMeatballs has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:54 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:05 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1202-g2dd280d (34) 18:01:53 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:02:07 -!- Weretaco has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:03:54 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:05:21 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:06 -!- twofortypee has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:06:28 -!- darin has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.1/20150513174244]] 18:06:30 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:07:55 hm. if you go downstairs while confused, you get the "you trip and fall back down the stairs" message, which sounds like you were trying to go upstairs 18:09:23 also, you still go downstairs 18:09:27 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:32 instead you should get "you trip and fall back up the stairs" 18:10:00 that would be a good replacement for the moving stairs xom effect actually 18:10:08 -!- Shred has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:10:18 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:12:06 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:14:16 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:17 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:25 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21:48 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 18:22:27 how can i force myself to be a particular colored draconian in wizmode? i know i can &r white draconian, but i want to test the message that prints when you mature, which doesn't happen with wizmode race setting 18:23:10 probably impossible 18:23:45 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:10 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 18:25:12 <|amethyst> yeah, you'd want to use a debugger 18:25:42 <|amethyst> set you.species just after level_change() sets it 18:25:50 i will just submit this one-line patch blatantly untested. take that 18:27:07 actually uh, remind me again how you use a string object as an argument to mprf? like instead of a char* i now have a string 18:27:29 mprf("blah %s", str.c_str()) 18:27:41 though maybe you want mpr(str)? 18:28:52 does c_str() actually get GC'd properly? i guess it returns a pointer that becomes invalid whenever the original string becomes invalid? 18:29:41 hrm 18:29:50 is KILL_UNSUMMONED just not used these days? 18:30:24 there's a check for it in monster_die() but as far as I can tell it's never used 18:30:39 gammafunk: down that path lies madness 18:30:50 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1203-g950c965: Don't give the wrong message when falling down stairs (minmay) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/950c96572a4b 18:30:52 amalloy: right 18:30:52 ...what?!?! 18:30:52 <|amethyst> amalloy: right 18:30:56 amalloy: right 18:31:03 amalloy: right 18:31:05 also, it probably gets invalidated if you modify the string 18:31:12 !echo ammaloy:right 18:31:22 .echo ammaloy: right 18:31:22 ammaloy: right 18:31:23 -!- TonyMeatballs_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:31:26 shit 18:31:28 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:31:30 that's not your name 18:31:31 <|amethyst> Yes, "The pointer returned may be invalidated by further calls to other member functions that modify the object." 18:32:22 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:49 <|amethyst> amalloy: the lifetime thing means you shouldn't do this: 18:32:55 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:04 hrm, would killer_type ever be marshalled? 18:33:06 -!- TonyMeatballs__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:33:08 <|amethyst> amalloy: const char *foo = fn_returning_a_string().c_str() 18:33:44 <|amethyst> amalloy: it's okay to use something like that in an expression, but not when the value is saved 18:33:51 ah, seems it is 18:34:08 wait, the dtor is called immediately in that case, not at the end of the scope? 18:34:21 "immediately" would be the end of the statement? 18:34:21 env.cloud[i].killer, mysterious... 18:35:18 ah, possibly credit to monsters for the clouds they make 18:35:26 s/possibly/possible/ 18:35:28 i wonder if that's actually a KC_? 18:35:35 well i'll have to TAG_MAJOR it I guess 18:35:38 !source struct cloud 18:35:39 Can't find struct. 18:35:43 !source cloud_struct 18:35:44 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/externs.h#l321 18:35:56 oh right it has both! 18:36:08 because ???! 18:36:22 it's cloud_info.killer 18:36:45 !source cloud_info 18:36:45 1/3. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/map_knowledge.h#l9 18:36:59 that too 18:37:01 |amethyst: interesting. thanks. i hadn't thought about it before, but if i had guessed, i would have guessed that destructors for temporary values like that are called immediately, rather than at the end of the statement 18:38:17 <|amethyst> I'm not 100% certain there 18:38:26 <|amethyst> whether it's at the end of the statement or the next sequence point 18:38:40 <|amethyst> but it's not the entire containing scope anyway 18:39:27 |amethyst: it's "full expression". so definitely not sequence point, but it's not exactly statement either 18:39:59 if (x.c_str()) {...} i think the string is destructed before the body begins 18:40:28 <|amethyst> yeah 18:40:58 New branch created: pull/51 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/51 18:40:58 03amalloy02 07[pull/51] * 0.17-a0-1204-g9a6fedc: Fix message when you become a white draconian 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9a6fedcf1e09 18:43:10 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:43:25 03amalloy02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.17-a0-1204-g9f11d92: Fix message when you become a white draconian 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f11d925823c 18:47:24 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:22 -!- megane has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:19 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:23 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:04:40 if you reach with a polearm to a tile that's a knight's move away, it "takes up" both of the tiles in between you and that enemy, so that an actor standing in either of those places is "in the way", meaning you have a 50% chance to fail. why is that different from, say, aiming LCS? if i can aim LCS around a friendly at an enemy, why can't i reach around him with my halberd? 19:05:41 because the 50% chance fail was implemented solely so you can't sit behind a rat and kill panlords with a spear 19:07:24 kvaak: that's fine, if it's not a knight's move away, ie the rat is blocking the corridor. but if there's one empty space between us and one full one, the pan lord is just as free to attack me as if the rat weren't there 19:07:44 so it seems like i should be able to attack him as if the rat weren't there 19:08:01 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:08:52 i don't see how that changes anything i said 19:09:00 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:09:14 reaching used to work for players like it works for monsters now 19:10:08 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:10:58 kvaak: what i'm saying is, if things were changed to the way i was describing, it would still not be possible to sit behind a rat and reach at a polearm. i'm talking about a situation where the rat is one tile north of you, the pan lord is north + northwest, and the tile directly northwest of you is empty 19:10:59 I'm actually not sure why it doesn't just take the free path; what amalloy said is true, the pan lord can just use a ranged attack or move into the free space 19:11:34 one thing might be the interface, but I'm not sure how that would really pose a problem 19:11:53 the player does need to see the ray from their pos to the target to know "will this attack be subject to fail or not" 19:12:07 with 50% fail if either is blocked there's less thinking 19:12:21 but again I'm not sure that's actually a good thing 19:12:25 oh, that 19:12:30 gammafunk: if this isn't intended behavior, i'll look at the targetters for beam and for reach, and see if it is terribly hard to reuse the beam targeting for reaching 19:12:38 well it's not just an issue with reaching 19:12:51 amalloy: well the former is really the question that needs to be answered first 19:13:11 there may be issues with having it choose the optimal reach that I'm not aware of 19:13:24 kvaak: it's a worse issue with reaching, though. with beam targeting, the beam sometimes gets blocked on friendlies and sometimes goes around them, which is annoying. with reach, it always gets blocked by friendlies, in either square 19:13:57 feynman would approve 19:14:50 wheals: would he? why? 19:15:13 amalloy: wrt to the targetter, there's a performance issue 19:15:18 <|amethyst> the spear is in a superposition 19:15:31 if beam targetter is a lot more complicated than the reach one, I mean 19:15:39 might be better to just tweak the reach one 19:16:03 <|amethyst> that shouldn't matter for performance 19:16:11 i was thinking of sum over paths 19:16:21 <|amethyst> the time spent to draw is more than any amount of computation it's likely to do 19:16:22 |amethyst: well reach does already slow down the game a lot 19:16:25 of course 2 != ∞ 19:16:56 yeah perhaps it's all just draw related, but the different targetters cause different things to happen with drawing sometimes 19:17:05 anyhow yeah I'm not sure that making reach more beam like would be a problem 19:17:05 <|amethyst> that is a possibility 19:18:43 -!- odiv_ is now known as odiv 19:23:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 19:26:38 chequers: so let's talk about +skill artps. What's the goal? 19:29:44 amalloy: beam targetting would let you reach past the monster in one of the two possible positions but not the other 19:30:19 amalloy: even if you allowed both, there would be annoying things with kiting monsters so that you can reach past them 19:30:30 amalloy: e.g.: 19:30:32 @r. 19:30:34 ..O 19:30:58 if you step backwards here then you might or might not be able to reach 19:31:49 amalloy: pretty sure the current behavior plays better (especially with autofight) than what you are suggesting 19:32:56 amalloy: in general the beam targeting system is really fiddly and weird (see targetting out-of-range squares to get a better angle on in-range squares) 19:33:07 I don't think that using it for reaching is a good idea 19:34:02 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:39:32 yeah I guess I hadn't considered what happens when the player can move, which is a frequent situation :) 19:40:02 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 19:43:14 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:16 -!- Stantler has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:48 Does crawl use Bresenham's line drawing algorithm for determining LoS? 19:54:31 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:54:34 -!- Taraiph is now known as TaWAHiph 19:57:34 No one knows or no one wants to answer? 19:57:59 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:00 The build was fixed. (master - 950c965 #2734 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/65162875 19:58:00 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 19:58:03 I mean I could play with it and see if the results are always the same, but I wouldn't know where to check for it in the source. 19:58:15 -!- TaWAHiph is now known as tewaifu 19:58:53 <|amethyst> no, it tries multiple possible paths from source to target to find one that works 19:59:00 <|amethyst> that's why LOS is symmetrical 19:59:26 <|amethyst> start with find_ray in los.cc 20:00:15 <|amethyst> but 20:00:25 <|amethyst> that only accounts for blockage by opaque features 20:00:49 <|amethyst> if a monster blocks the path that it does choose, you cannot make it shoot around the monster 20:01:03 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:02:27 <|amethyst> with some targetters (throwing for example, but not most spells) you can use ctrl-c in wizmode to target the different possible paths 20:02:33 <|amethyst> but only in wizmode 20:03:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:14 amalloy: some of my statements above about beam targetting were incorrect (I forgot that you can actually target beams around one monster at a knight-move away in both configurations by using the "target out of range square" trick), but I still think that making reaching work more like beams is a bad idea 20:05:29 amalloy: e.g. I think it is clearly bad if the player can choose which of two monsters to reach through when blocked by two monsters 20:06:06 (I don't think the player should have any choices at all if they want to reach-attack a given square) 20:06:28 <|amethyst> elliptic: what about making it automatically path around just one monster? 20:06:50 Suppose that comes from what I've been nicknaming 'chunks', like a line that's slope is 5/9's can be formed with two three-pixel chunks and two two-pixel chunks, regardless of order (though some bad orders on pieces with a lot of size one chunks start looking ugly)... 20:06:53 |amethyst: so invisible monsters are sort of weird then 20:07:07 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, I guess that's a problem 20:07:19 what if players just couldn't reach through things at all 20:07:56 [10 pixels for a distance of 9, because I'm counting the origin as a point too.] 20:07:59 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:08:18 also if it automatically paths around around a single monster, players will kinda expect it to do the "right thing" if there are two monsters in the way and exactly one of them is hostile (ie, reach through the hostile one instead of the friendly one) 20:08:34 which is not a great expectation to set maybe? 20:08:35 <|amethyst> Stantler: go into wizmode, quiver up a throwable, press f to get the targetter, move the cursor somewhere, and press ctrl-c a few times 20:08:43 <|amethyst> Stantler: you'll see the different paths it can take 20:08:59 amalloy: yeah, and what if the hostile monster is a jelly and you actually don't want to reach through it?? 20:09:10 (okay this probably isn't likely) 20:09:16 <|amethyst> Stantler: but again, if it's a monster blocking the "best" path, you have to do stuff like out-of-range targetting to go around it 20:09:22 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:10:27 I'm probably either going to have to either download the source or come up with my own solution...Bresenham's only makes one line and multiple are probably better for this, thanks. 20:10:42 <|amethyst> Stantler: I believe there are some that wouldn't be generated by bresenham's algorithm whatever initial offset sub-pixel you give 20:10:59 elliptic: to be clear, you can't actually use out-of-range targeting, right, even for beams? you can just target in-range stuff that is behind the thing you want to hit 20:11:10 amalloy: no, you can 20:11:12 with ! 20:11:22 oh really. that is a feature i would have loved to know about 20:11:24 <|amethyst> only if the out of range square is in LOS though 20:11:25 yeah, you can choose an out-of-range square with ! for purposes of hitting in-range 20:11:31 and that is indeed annoying to have to do 20:11:47 <|amethyst> find_ray could be made to take monsters into account 20:12:02 |amethyst: but sometimes you want to hit more monsters, not fewer 20:12:09 <|amethyst> but you'd need to be able to tell it whether you want to maximise or minimise monsters jh 20:12:12 <|amethyst> yeah 20:12:25 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:14:09 <|amethyst> Stantler: the actual geometry code is a weird thing where each cell has a diamond in the middle, and if the (floating point) ray goes inside the diamond, the square counts as one that the ray passes through 20:14:20 <|amethyst> Stantler: see ray.cc for example 20:14:55 <|amethyst> Stantler: but I don't *think* ray.cc is used for LOS 20:15:00 <|amethyst> Stantler: it is used for beams though 20:15:16 <|amethyst> ah, no 20:15:16 I sort of wish there was only one possible ray from you to any square in sight 20:15:19 <|amethyst> it does use ray.cc 20:15:42 like, there could be multiple ways of extending the ray further, but the intermediate squares would be fixed 20:16:04 <|amethyst> seems like that would be significantly more restrictive though 20:16:05 this has various bad consequences though (like the intermediate squares being different in the other direction) 20:16:15 <|amethyst> yeah 20:16:54 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:06 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 20:17:18 -!- megane has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:29 I'm not sure how bad that is though honestly, it is already possible to be in situations where you can fire at a monster but it can't fire back at you (because monsters don't normally target beyond you to get a better angle) 20:17:53 <|amethyst> the reverse situation, however... 20:17:58 This was my Bresenham test (line from (0,0,0) to (9,5,3)). https://youtu.be/JH5_or7_ifg 20:18:42 <|amethyst> I think symmetric LOS is a pretty significant part of crawl and I wouldn't want to lose it 20:19:00 |amethyst: well, LOS would still be symmetric 20:19:00 <|amethyst> games with asymmetric LOS have a different feel 20:19:05 <|amethyst> ? 20:19:11 |amethyst: lines of fire just wouldn't be 20:19:16 -!- tewaifu is now known as Taraiph 20:19:19 DS will be using Cube, probably Sphere would be too problematic. 20:20:37 <|amethyst> elliptic: so if there's a wall diagonally between you and the target, you might be able to see it but not shoot it? 20:21:31 |amethyst: i don't think that's true in elliptic's envisioned universe, but maybe there is a case i'm not thinking of 20:22:01 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:28 Is there any chance mainline crawl will make the switch to square? 20:22:33 |amethyst: no, I was going to still take walls into account when choosing rays... however I think that the conditions I am placing on this would make lines of fire look pretty bad :( 20:22:36 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:22:37 -!- MgDark__ is now known as MgDark 20:23:04 <|amethyst> elliptic: oh, I had thought "only one possible ray" meant there would be no choosing 20:23:13 <|amethyst> but I think I see what you mean now 20:23:17 |amethyst: no choosing by the player 20:23:30 <|amethyst> Stantler: what do you mean? 20:23:36 <|amethyst> Stantler: squarelos is in mainline crawl 20:23:40 <|amethyst> Stantler: it will be in 0.17 20:23:45 Oh cool. 20:24:23 <|amethyst> to a huge chorus of "meh"s 20:24:40 <|amethyst> which is better than the outcry I was expecting from some 20:24:53 <|amethyst> honestly I had been skeptical, but it plays reasonably so 20:25:12 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:25:25 -!- serq has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:30 It's better; but it presents balance issues to make the change quickly. 20:25:31 |amethyst: now we'll get the neil wins we've been waiting for! 20:25:38 since more can be within LoS. 20:25:46 not too much more though 20:25:51 |amethyst: (the problem is that in open space you basically have to make it always use the ray where it does all the diagonal moves first and then the non-diagonal moves, or vice versa) 20:25:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I need to introduce more bugs and/or imbalanced features first 20:25:59 because we shortened LoS 20:26:12 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, which isn't even a possible ray currently 20:26:15 right 20:26:16 or go the other way: abyssal orb spiders 20:26:19 <|amethyst> elliptic: that would let you see around corners :) 20:26:55 <|amethyst> OTOH, with squarelos maybe it makes sense 20:27:00 <|amethyst> it is the same length after all :) 20:27:02 I suppose all valid ways of drawing the line are found with the list of moves during a Bresenham with various offsets...well most the good ones anyways 20:28:17 <|amethyst> I don't think it's equivalent to Bresenham with initial error, since you can get some kind of weird looking paths 20:28:21 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:29:02 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:29:19 -!- zerkmund has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30:03 <|amethyst> aiming at a cell 6x3 squares away (so a path of length 7) can give the patterns 2212 2122 1222 2221 1321 1231 20:30:19 <|amethyst> I'm pretty sure Bresenham can't generate those 1321 and 1231s 20:30:41 The first 4 are valid (Bresenham)...the last two are indeed wonky. 20:31:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:31:32 |amethyst: well, they are pieces of bresenham lines between two points still 20:31:36 just not two nearby points 20:32:19 <|amethyst> ah, true, that's a truncated part of a 2322 or such I guess 20:32:21 There was a way I wrote for hexagonal tiles that would accept that, I don't think it would normally come up with it unless you considered a really long line, then shrunk the distance...had to do with afforementioned 'chunks'. 20:32:23 yeah 20:32:33 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:41 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 20:35:02 Is 6 the maximum number of possibilities? maybe it specifically comes up with a list through each of those methods (Bresenham with initial error then truncated piece of a longer bresenham). 20:35:36 <|amethyst> it doesn't use bresenham, it uses floating-point ray casting 20:35:52 <|amethyst> but I think elliptic's right that it works out to be equivalent 20:37:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Client Quit] 20:39:14 Yea any algorithm to draw a line for a distance is going to end up with similar results, because there are only so many possibilities. Wonder if there's any way to know ahead of time how many possibilities Bresenham will have for a given slope... 20:39:41 [Varying initial error, of course] 20:40:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:09 thinking about crawl's ray situation and how there isn't really a good solution always makes me sad :( I think probably the best we could hope for is just an extremely smart autotargetter, but that is going to be hard with all the possible cases 20:43:57 It's Bcadren working on Dungeon Swim, trying to get similar raycasting and LoS, if that wasn't obvious. I'm just going to stick to Bresenham for now and iterate better later if necessary, I think. 20:45:54 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:48:36 -!- Stantler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:50:10 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:39 -!- Hanyuu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:52:08 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:59 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:39 -!- clouded_ has quit [] 20:59:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:03 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:23 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 21:15:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:45 -!- NJP has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:26:52 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:27:51 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:28:13 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:30:47 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:48 The build was fixed. (master - 9f11d92 #2736 : Alan Malloy): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/65164246 21:30:48 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 21:34:06 -!- mnoleg69reagan42 has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:37:39 !function _calc_monster_experience 21:37:39 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc#l249 21:38:15 the check for "created friendly" (actually no reward which is not only used for created friendly) seems a bit odd to me 21:38:47 it prevents the player allies from getting experience if they accidentlly kill another of your allies 21:39:16 but seems to not give hostile monstes experience for killing your allies 21:39:41 Lasty: yo, in 15min? 21:40:05 chequers: sure 21:40:07 -!- rwork has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:14 hey 21:40:29 Dunno if Lasty just mentioned this, but ice cave necromancers 21:40:36 with wands of fire/ spell bolt of fire 21:40:42 is a dick move and really spoily 21:41:12 imo bolt of fire spell randomly occuring isn't spoilery. The placed wand of fire is tho. 21:41:27 -!- Taraiph has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:31 (since necromancers do have bolt of fire listed in xv) 21:41:54 but how likely are players to check it? 21:42:04 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:25 Lasty: did you read my comments in the PR 21:43:28 i know the one time i got hit with bolt of fire it was a huge surprise 21:43:32 there's some of my thoughts there 21:43:53 since then i just take off fire of ice before opening that door. because, you know, I'm spoiled now. 21:44:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:44:13 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44:19 <|amethyst> except the necromancer is just as likely to have bold of cold instead 21:44:28 <|amethyst> s/bold/bolt/ 21:44:42 -!- Akitten_Homura is now known as UncertainKitten 21:44:42 |amethyst: better to be at 0 resists then, IMO 21:45:01 should the wand placement be changed 21:45:01 <|amethyst> it sounds like the real problem is that you know a necromancer is there 21:45:09 chequers: er no, lemmee take a look 21:45:16 <|amethyst> and I'm not sure how to deal with that short of not using vaults 21:45:24 |amethyst: they specifically spawn with fire or flame wands 21:45:27 for some reason 21:45:33 <|amethyst> ah 21:45:36 ^ 21:45:38 <|amethyst> the wand is silly 21:45:38 to me the idea that "here's this zone where all the monsters are loaded down with cold attacks, excep that this one rare version, there's a 50% chance that one monster will have a powerful fire attack" 21:45:50 i can write a commit for that 21:45:53 "except it's really 100% because he also has the wand" 21:45:54 if no one else wants to 21:45:55 50% is fine imo, but 100% isn't 21:45:56 <|amethyst> could remove necromancers from ice caves 21:46:08 just give them wand of something else 21:46:10 given that it looks like it should be 50% 21:46:11 <|amethyst> right now it looks like 5/6 21:46:16 turning the wands to cold wands is a no brainer i think 21:46:38 if it's possible to give the necromancer the cold spell list always, I support that also 21:46:41 -!- tgcid has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:05 <|amethyst> the only way to do that currently is to write the spell list in the .des, which is then subject to getting out of sync 21:47:14 <|amethyst> but certainly possible 21:47:18 it could even be a wand of lightning if you want to be less generic 21:47:55 I mean, non-089 vault monsters are always spoilery, and nasty surprises aren't inherently bad. I just think it's meanto tell the player "this might have bolt of fire" when this almost certainly has bolt of fire. 21:48:03 could you put something in the .des to replace fire spells with equivalent cold spells? 21:48:10 s/meanto/mean to/ 21:48:43 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:48:54 i think it's also mean to make a cold res area, and then surpise! here's a rare moonster with a fire attack that will ruin your day because one of the most common cold res items hurts your fire res 21:49:49 @??necromancer 21:49:49 necromancer (16p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 30-52 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 618 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), agony, animate dead, simulacrum / b.fire (3d18), agony, inner flame, invisibility [04emergency], animate dead | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 21:50:28 <|amethyst> Keskitalo: thoughts on removing the wand of fire (and the possibility of the necromancer having b.fire) from ice_cave_small_03 ? 21:51:50 <|amethyst> Keskitalo: err, ice_cave_small_necro now I guess 21:56:08 !function monster::gain_exp 21:56:08 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-grow.cc#l210 21:56:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:23 chequers: replied in the pull request 21:57:35 !source monster::banish 21:57:36 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc#l2969 21:58:58 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:35 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:03:21 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:05:08 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:22 the wand of fire seems deliberately placed to mix things up, but if that is desirable the fire spellset is probably a fairer way of doing that 22:06:30 since a fire necromancer will use the b.fire less frequently than it will a wand of fire 22:07:27 and the existence of b.fire is also transparent for players in xv 22:07:33 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:08:00 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:01 -!- seriallos has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 22:08:19 Lasty: i guess one problem is that skill above mindelay is so pointless, so even if you're using polearms and you find pole+5 armour, it's basically useless if you're at mindelay (and by the time you find artefacts you usually are) 22:08:57 That's overstating it -- going over mindelay still has an impact on damage and accuracy 22:08:57 -!- NJP has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:09:21 it's just not as extreme as the damage-over-time bonus when you're also reducing attack speed 22:09:40 fencer’s are better for a short blades user than gauntlets, certainly 22:09:45 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:09:49 But it does mean it's doing the same thing as slaying, basically 22:10:00 Gauntlets of war? 22:10:04 i think so 22:10:07 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:11 Seriously? For short blades? 22:10:13 assuming your dex isn’t already very high 22:10:18 Oh, right, the dex bonus 22:10:20 i’m not saying for damage 22:10:22 I forgot about that 22:10:25 though actually that’s a possibility 22:10:29 but i doubt it 22:10:32 just overall though 22:10:39 I'm pretty sure the +5 slaying is more damage, but yeah, overall I'd buy it 22:10:41 <|amethyst> are you usually at mindelay when you find artefacts? 22:10:44 <|amethyst> I'm not 22:10:52 trog is 22:10:54 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:10:55 -!- TonyMeatballs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11:00 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:03 |amethyst: I find the majority of my artefacts when I'm at min delay, but I usually find some before 22:11:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:11:24 -!- serq has quit [Changing host] 22:11:36 maybe instead of +slay, you can have +meleeskills 22:11:38 I suppose having +skill on a weapon would make it more tempting to switch to that weapon in the early game . . . 22:11:51 <|amethyst> +skill also makes it more useful to "casters" 22:11:55 That would be one way to reduce the number of artps 22:12:03 yeah, that was my real attraction 22:12:12 <|amethyst> e.g. I might use an artefact halberd with +skill untrained where normally I wouldn't go above a trident 22:12:14 making mid-range weapons accessible to casters 22:12:24 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:34 <|amethyst> but the bonus is "worth more" later 22:12:42 <|amethyst> in that skill levels are non-linear 22:12:48 <|amethyst> in XP 22:12:48 yup 22:12:51 |amethyst: Having +4 skill versus +6 slaying, say, I would choose the slaying no matter what the weapon or character 22:13:03 <|amethyst> Lasty: I think it would depend on skills 22:13:04 it would increase the number of useful crosstrained/untrained weapons 22:13:09 actually, +skill is worse than +slaying in that it has a cap 22:13:11 whether that’s desirable or not 22:13:26 ...which might actually be a desirable effect?! 22:13:58 |amethyst: it's possible my intuition is wrong, but I'm pretty confident that 4 levels of skill is a lesser bonus than +6 slaying in almost every case. But my real point is just that slaying also makes melee more attractive to "casters" 22:14:06 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:53 <|amethyst> hm... I guess you're right if you were at .9 delay and 4 levels takes it to .7, that is a 28% increase in dps, but I guess +6 slaying is bigger for any actual weapon 22:16:00 <|amethyst> s/right/right:/ 22:16:20 <|amethyst> if you're comparing +0 to +6 22:16:21 * chequers pats OgFi, "don't worry, I still think your GSC is an actual weapon" :P 22:16:25 what’s the range on +skill being presented 22:16:32 +3-+5 22:16:47 (at least, that's what I heard) 22:16:52 +/-2-5 22:17:01 but that range is the easiest thing to change 22:17:03 ok, yeah, i think that’s quite likely to be useful 22:17:07 makes any weapon much easier to hit mdelay with 22:17:15 just whether that’s an interesting buff or not 22:18:04 i’d be less inclined to look at it in terms of 0 skill benefits, since i think in either case you’d want to get at least a middling level of skill, as +skill actually does more the closer you get to mindelay 22:18:09 I think it's more interesting than +slaying, but it has the same problem as manuals "dang, it's not for a skill I even potentially care about" 22:18:09 unless it’s not a good weapon at all otherwise ofc 22:18:47 DrKe: It's definitely useful. I think the questions are 1) is it significantly different than allowing a weapon to get higher Slaying, and 2) does it make for more interesting artefacts 22:18:50 and if there is an artp for every skill, you're gonna get a lot of MiBe in plate Hex+6 running about 22:19:07 indeed 22:19:22 <|amethyst> Lasty: I think increased speed is inherently different from +slaying even if the DPS turns out to be less 22:19:24 And "+4 to magic skills" would just be nuts 22:19:46 |amethyst: I'm certainly willing to give it a try. I'm just not yet convinced. :) 22:19:49 we were talking about "+1 to all stats" as a non-stackable artp 22:20:05 i don’t know that it’s significantly different than slaying, in terms of affecting decisions 22:20:05 *skills 22:20:24 like take a +10 longsword, vs a +6 longsword with lbl+5 22:20:54 +1 to all skills would be a notable buff, akin to having ~1/4th of a god in an item slot 22:20:59 :) 22:21:00 yeah 22:21:08 a portable god 22:22:16 what is your reaction to the idea of tuning the +skills selected based on player's current skill training? 22:22:24 <|amethyst> ? 22:22:32 <|amethyst> "selected"? 22:22:43 <|amethyst> item generation shouldn't depend on the player unless it's acquirement 22:22:48 In general dungeon/item generation . . . ^ 22:22:53 right 22:23:12 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:17 <|amethyst> and especially not one something that can be toggled "for free" just before items are generated 22:23:25 <|amethyst> s/one/on/ 22:23:30 better to say "current skills" than "current skill training" 22:23:50 but that's a fair enough no-go 22:23:53 <|amethyst> even then, point 1. It makes sense for acquirement, but not for general randarts 22:24:54 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:10 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:25:48 more ideas: generate +weapon only on weapons, +armour/dodge/stealth on armour and a few other props (spellcasting, invo, evo) on jewelery 22:26:06 <|amethyst> then you'd just need one prop 22:26:10 <|amethyst> s/prop/artp/ 22:26:29 <|amethyst> one for all the weapon skills, anyway 22:26:46 sure 22:26:56 and if the bonus gets fixed even fewer :) 22:27:21 how worried are you about adding 20 new artps to the codebase? is it a serious concern? 22:27:44 <|amethyst> I'm mostly concerned about the wizmode randart tweak screen there 22:27:52 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:27:56 <|amethyst> but I don't want to see the same code a dozen times 22:28:07 yeah, it already overflows that screen 22:28:13 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:19 the artp screen goes to @ and then other entries are '-' 22:28:38 -!- PleasingFungus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 22:29:10 the duplicated code can be fixed by your iteration idea 22:29:19 <|amethyst> yeah 22:29:42 <|amethyst> well, hopefully most of the time you'd just be subtracting/adding and wouldn't need to actually iterate 22:32:37 one other UI problem: need a way to convince mages it's worth starting to ID artefact baxes 22:32:54 <|amethyst> changelog 22:34:02 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 22:34:13 what does +weapon do again? 22:34:46 axe+5 skill 22:34:51 or pole-2 22:34:59 any of those is what i mean by that shorthand 22:35:06 well...why would we put those on weapons? 22:35:23 affect the base skill required to reach mindelay 22:35:35 yeah but it's effectively just tweakign the base type 22:35:41 seems a very bad idea 22:35:44 I guess it also changes the ultimate peak damage output as well, if it's -skill 22:36:00 is it? you're not changing the base damage 22:36:14 we have enchant on weapons currently that achieves this purpose 22:36:25 what does +weapon on a weapon achieve that enchant doesnt 22:36:28 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it's more like tweaking base delay 22:36:29 02:19 <+|amethyst> Lasty: I think increased speed is inherently different from +slaying even if the DPS turns out to be less 22:36:44 I don't think this is a good change 22:37:21 even if it is different it just makes weapon efficacy more arcane at the cost of more complexity for not any specific added gameplay (that I can see) 22:37:55 just my two cents though 22:38:16 I think artefact weapons with +skill will encourage cross skilling, or using higher tier weapons with low skill (particularly as a mage) 22:39:15 -skill is harder, it will mostly encourage overskilling of your core weapon skill to reach mindelay, which is another sort of tradeoff but one probably only Be/similar would be interested in making 22:39:20 dcss does not give players the tools to figure out "does +3 slay or +5 skill add more damage", and I'm not sure it's good for the game to present them with that choice. we already do that with stats vs slaying to some extent, but there's an exponential complexity here, too: +5 slaying on a worse weapon type with -skill but +stats or...? 22:39:37 likwe 22:39:50 if players want to fuck around with damage numbers optimization, they can and should go play tome 4 22:40:11 begone, foul temptress 22:40:25 I don't really uderstand what you mean by +skill encouraging cross skilling. If I get an axe with +axe how do that encourage me to use not an axe 22:40:27 the choices we present should be more qualitative. the skill/mindelay thing is sort of in that direction, but I feel like it's probably not enough 22:40:47 and too far in the direction of that kind of informationless numbers-guessing 22:40:50 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I think he means switching to a new school you're cross-skilled in 22:40:55 ^ 22:41:00 doesn't, like, any good weapon encourage that 22:41:08 yeah 22:41:23 I think that's an odd way to go about encouraging cross skilling 22:41:25 if I find a +9 dtrident of speed, I'm gonna be very encouraged to switch from axes or w/e 22:41:42 but where are you going to find that? 22:41:50 i think swapping weapon schools is relatively rare right now, because even a good weapon has a high skill investment 22:41:51 s/speed// 22:41:53 <|amethyst> this was going to be on 1/10 of artefacts 22:41:58 the worry might be that +skill weapons might be more common than uber dtridents 22:42:05 <|amethyst> (which I think is quite high) 22:42:12 yeh 22:42:22 the number of artefacts is variable, I just copied the frequencies from the most recent other additions (corrode) 22:42:34 ??objstat 22:42:34 objstat[1/3]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a build of crawl with EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L=-DDEBUG_STATISTICS in your make command (or full debug with "make debug") to generate item/monsters statistics. See crawl -help for the argument details. 22:42:36 ??objstat[2 22:42:36 objstat[2/3]: Latest statistics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing , See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing 22:42:55 Again I really don't thinnk there's any kind of legit idea of "+axe on and axe makes you want to cross skill" 22:43:39 if you find an amazing axe currently, you very will might switch if it make sense xp-wise, and this does occur rarely 22:44:02 so why add another rare new thing when these rare instances already exist 22:44:33 <|amethyst> I do think a weaker (-0.1 instead of *2/3) artp variant of the speed brand is pretty much equivalent for practical purposes 22:44:37 i feel like there is already a lot of poorly thought out weapon switches 22:44:48 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:45:30 <|amethyst> (well, it has different behaviour at high skill) 22:46:06 and yeah i agree it functions a lot like speed brand 22:50:48 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:57:31 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:02:13 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:19 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1205-g9cb03a7: Make monsters indiscriminate about potions/scrolls 10(51 minutes ago, 3 files, 22+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9cb03a7455dc 23:03:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1206-g6199e19: Remove stack generation restrictions from potions 10(22 minutes ago, 10 files, 24+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6199e197dfb7 23:03:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1207-ge31eaae: Allow all scrolls to generate in stacks 10(7 minutes ago, 9 files, 30+ 42-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e31eaaee95c4 23:03:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1208-g5ea1814: Correct Apport & Ghostly Flames' descriptions 10(87 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ea18148ea38 23:04:00 ok, there we go 23:04:00 wait, what 23:04:08 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:04:13 -!- PleasingFungus_ is now known as PleasingFungus 23:04:27 there we go. 23:05:40 -!- PleasingFungus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:07:38 wow, you realize we'll be hearing from archaeo how he was mentioned in that commit 23:07:47 pretty much for eternity 23:07:52 such is the cost, I guess 23:07:54 sounds good 23:09:03 maybe there can be another passive aggressive fight with dpeg about whether it was his idea or minmay's 23:10:08 <|amethyst> I thought I was the one who fought passive-aggressively with minmay? 23:11:16 the very idea that there could be just one such person! 23:11:46 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:03 I would like to also stake a claim 23:13:00 i think it helps that you spelled his name wrong 23:13:03 Trivia: there's a 0.5% chance of finding !xp on D:1 <-- so I just need to start 200 games and I can find !xp on d:1??? 23:13:09 meenmai 23:13:25 chequers: this is true before & after the commit, for some interpretation of statistics 23:13:39 brb trashing my winrate 23:13:48 please note you'll also have to quaff-id it 23:13:50 i mean re: archaeo 23:14:07 oops 23:14:12 lol 23:15:01 yeah that's what I was asking before 23:15:54 one thing i've noticed about elf:3 and v:5 23:16:06 is that the monsters will often pick up and use the awesome treasure against you 23:16:17 which is fine. except if you miss the monster 23:16:23 ??monsters[[3 23:16:23 monsters[3/4]: dirty cheaters 23:16:55 is it desired that the player ctrl+f the level and re-explore it a couple times after to find stragglers? 23:17:09 that is a problem with monsters using items, yeah 23:17:23 <|amethyst> that is a problem with monsters granting XP 23:17:30 other than that i'm OK with monsters using items 23:17:33 that is a problem with monsters granting nutrition 23:17:42 well yes, but it's the relative value of the treasure 23:17:47 exactly 23:17:53 if I miss xp from a de I'll be ok with that, but if I miss my arte ring of PLOG 23:17:55 -!- PleasingFungus has left ##crawl-dev 23:17:59 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:59 if someone wants to scum all dungeon levels for xp, well, that' 23:18:04 s it's won pun ishment 23:18:06 don't stop minotaurs from picking up the wrath of trog tho 23:18:27 chequers: monsters using items against you is a feature 23:18:30 yeah but there's nothing we can do, except possibly make a better note to the player if you see a monster wearing something good? 23:18:36 monsters grabbing good items and then hiding is not. IMO 23:18:55 it's a weird distinction 23:19:00 how about: picking up item puts the monster to sleep, unless they can see you 23:19:10 uhhhhh 23:19:10 <|amethyst> er, no 23:19:12 that 23:19:15 wouldn't really solve anything 23:19:23 <|amethyst> we removed mummystabbing for a reason 23:19:24 because they wake up later from noise 23:19:24 well, it keeps the monster in place? 23:19:38 it doesn't, as rwork notes 23:19:47 yes, well, technicalities 23:19:57 <|amethyst> if the monsters aren't coming to you, maybe you're not making *enough* noise :P 23:20:04 <|amethyst> qazlal reasons 23:20:05 #qreasons 23:20:07 haha 23:20:09 oh 23:20:12 heh 23:20:39 |amethyst: check out the old monster::pickup_scroll() from 9cb03a7455dc35d1f32b87fc200f1424a4349cd0 23:20:45 see if you notice anything odd about it 23:20:51 I could see something special for monster gear I guess, in terms of player notification, but perhaps that's just something for force_more 23:20:51 would it be hard for stashtracker to track items last seen carreid by monsters? 23:21:08 (doesn't do anything about the orc warlord carrying wyrmbane that you never meet) 23:21:39 yeah that's just not an improvable situation, but possibly we could do better for monsters that do come into your los 23:21:43 at least once 23:21:47 does anyone actually know the stashtracker code 23:22:06 (insert long silence here) 23:22:08 yeah 23:22:08 but I don'tthink it's just "add them to stash" since how do you know you missed something 23:22:08 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: other than only having those three scrolls? 23:22:16 monsters using items can result in terrifying moments 23:22:18 well, those three are the only ones that monsters will use 23:22:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, the fact that none of those are evil or unholy 23:22:22 gammafunk: if you see the monster 23:22:23 yep 23:22:28 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: summoning used to be! 23:22:32 such as realizing that the deep elf sorceror you're right next to is using the plutonium sword 23:22:35 yes, I'm assuming that's what it dates to 23:22:39 rwork: hrm? you may not even notice 23:22:44 rip scroll of unholy creation or w/e it was temporarily renamed to 23:23:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I had actually forgotten when I first read it that summoning *wasn't* unholy anymore :) 23:23:02 I'm saying we'd have to at least do a better job of showing the player "this thing has an artefact" 23:23:03 heh 23:23:05 gammafunk: if you xv every monster that ever gets in your LOS you will 23:23:25 uh, and why would I want to play a game where I do that? 23:23:27 <|amethyst> if you have to xv every monster that gets into your LOS we have failed in our UI 23:23:32 <|amethyst> what gammafunk said 23:23:39 gammafunk: you wouldn't which is why it would be nice if the game tracked those items for you 23:23:56 er..yeah..my point is that said tracking by itself is not enough 23:24:00 as a seperate thing, it would be nice if the game warned you about them. 23:24:03 <|amethyst> stash tracker probably wouldn't work very well 23:24:03 this is getting a bit circular 23:24:05 showmore maybe? 23:24:10 *forcemore 23:24:14 <|amethyst> would need to track the monster like we do uniques 23:24:20 <|amethyst> but there are probably problems with that 23:24:21 "You see the orc is wielding the +10 Sword of Jihad" 23:24:27 can you track the items without tracking the monster carrying them? 23:24:50 warning about artifacts seems like a basic easy step too 23:24:56 <|amethyst> rwork: you mean "I last saw this item on D:3, who knows where the monster is now"? 23:25:05 |amethyst: yes exactly 23:25:05 fell through a shaft, rip 23:25:09 that's fine 23:25:30 at least you know the item exists (unless the monster fell into lava) 23:25:35 and you can go look for it 23:25:50 again I think you're more going to find this helping when you happen to search for something 23:25:53 is that something we want to actually encourage 23:25:59 and see "oh, I missed this thing" 23:26:01 gammafunk: yes exactly 23:26:16 because this is going to be encouraging the sort of behavior that I don't think is actually fun or interesting 23:26:19 right 23:26:24 (hunting cleared levels for specific monsters) 23:26:32 "let's see what prize searches I can do!" 23:26:53 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: isn't that the point of Natasha's wand? 23:27:04 it's bad enough with uniques, yes 23:30:25 <|amethyst> re announcing things 23:30:35 <|amethyst> not artefacts specifically, but the current announcements too 23:30:40 -!- sk3 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:35 <|amethyst> should we either 1. eliminate condensing-by-genus 2. continue condensing, but run message matching against the full message and display it if it would trigger a force_more etc. 3. something else 23:31:59 <|amethyst> I am thinking about the problem of not being notified of weapon brands when several monsters come into view at once 23:32:31 <|amethyst> 1. would probably make some things a more-fest so I think isn't feasible 23:32:56 <|amethyst> s/feasible/reasonably from a UI perspective/ 23:33:02 <|amethyst> s/bly/ble/ 23:34:34 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:13 <|amethyst> 2. might want a more general mechanism where an mpr call can say "here is the long version and here is the short version, pick the best one" but matching happens on the long one 23:35:55 <|amethyst> but that's kind of difficult to do technically because how do you give two varargs lists to mprf without it sucking to use 23:37:32 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1209-g8d87e0a: Update TLA desc (9751) 10(16 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8d87e0ad181e 23:40:07 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:22 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:23 The build has errored. (master - 5ea1814 #2737 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/65184626 23:51:23 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 23:51:57 hm 23:51:59 that's an actual crash 23:52:36 <|amethyst> Bad item name: 'scroll of acquirement q:5' 23:53:03 <|amethyst> oh 23:53:29 <|amethyst> +KITEM: ? = scroll of acquirement q:1 ident:all q:5 23:53:32 yeah 23:53:33 fixing 23:54:06 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1210-g1e4f09d: Fix a duplicate quantity specifier 10(16 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1e4f09d6f04f 23:54:16 -!- tgcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:59 good tavern https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=224491#p224491 23:57:22 <|amethyst> hm 23:57:39 <|amethyst> rename slings, remove stones 23:57:42 <|amethyst> problem solved 23:57:52 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.1/20150513174244]] 23:58:07 Here: 15 gun bullets 23:58:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:58:11 <|amethyst> or, decide that guns need to automatically regen ammo to fit more in line with movie tropes 23:58:44 <|amethyst> but there should be some way to make them regen faster, so let ?recharging increase that 23:59:11 <|amethyst> and might as well have that also increase the clip size 23:59:14 <|amethyst> and maybe make Evocations skill affect the recharge rate too 23:59:26 <|amethyst> and probably the damage you do with the bullets