00:07:35 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:07:35 -!- horsey has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:07:35 !lm * recent rune noun=abyssal !ak x=avg(xl) 00:07:35 6035 milestones for * (recent rune noun=abyssal !ak): avg(xl)=25.18 00:10:54 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-670-g5d95ebd (34) 00:14:03 nicolae-: you're pretty commited to having only maelstroms in this? 00:14:11 and not locking in some other baddies 00:14:15 @??spatial_maelstrom 00:14:15 spatial maelstrom (08v) | Spd: 16 | HD: 10 | HP: 66-85 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 2012(distort), 2012(distort) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 761 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 00:14:43 @??spatial_vortex 00:14:44 spatial vortex (13v) | Spd: 15 | HD: 6 | HP: 40-67 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 3012(distort) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 165 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 00:14:56 hrm, they are kind of weak :/ 00:15:09 yeah, I just went through it with a 30/30 oka dude 00:15:15 I mean it's not like the other vaults are hard 00:15:29 but if you wanted to throw something else in there 00:15:57 it's a cute vault though, I do like the effect 00:15:59 i like the spatial oddity/translocation theme, not sure what else could fit. maybe an eldritch tentacle. 00:16:16 heh, yeah, probably that'd have trouble in such a small space 00:16:29 it's no big deal, not all vaults have the same difficulty 00:16:50 yeah, there's the one with a couple lightning spires and some raiju 00:17:06 !lg * br=abyss kmap~~abyss_rune s=kmap 00:17:07 187 games for * (br=abyss kmap~~abyss_rune): 25x grunt_abyss_rune_twisted_forest, 21x evilmike_abyss_rune_ettins, 16x due_abyss_rune, 13x grunt_abyss_rune_the_horror, 12x evilmike_abyss_rune_elephants, 11x evilmike_abyss_rune_tso_outpost, 9x nicolae_abyss_rune_more_like_crabyss, 9x nicolae_abyss_rune_star_stuff, 8x hangedman_abyss_rune_treasure_dump, 7x abyss_rune_water_cross, 7x grunt_abyss_rune_... 00:17:24 wow, people dying in that tso vault 00:17:29 must be undead 00:17:38 undead, undead, undead 00:17:45 !lg * kmap~~rune_tso_outpost s=crace 00:17:45 11 games for * (kmap~~rune_tso_outpost): 3x Demonspawn, 2x Gargoyle, Merfolk, Lava Orc, Hill Orc, Draconian, Formicid, Spriggan 00:17:55 ds I can see 00:19:12 rip lava orcs 00:19:16 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-670-g5d95ebd (34) 00:24:17 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-671-g4330659: Update an abyssal rune vault (nicolae) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 24+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4330659aa369 00:26:36 all right. that's all my vaults sorted out. 00:27:29 two new head slot unrands, i see 00:31:12 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:44:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:50:33 Dagoth (L1 DrWz) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 402: screen write out of bounds: (-36,4) into (43,4) (D:1) 00:53:23 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-671-g4330659 00:55:03 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:05 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:12 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 01:07:32 !crash 01:07:32 11131. Dagoth, XL1 DrWz, T:0 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Dagoth/crash-Dagoth-20150418-055026.txt 01:08:25 !rc dagoth 01:08:26 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/Dagoth.rc 01:08:54 looks like weird lua config stuff messing with things before the game is fully initialized? 01:11:44 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:21 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:33:56 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:35:10 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:39:37 I want to call dibs on crown of eternal torment 01:39:41 the tile, I mean 01:42:56 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:58 -!- Athaboros has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:43:32 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:47:12 -!- read has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:41 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:35 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:50 -!- Siegurt has left ##crawl-dev 01:56:55 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:59 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 02:01:53 -!- Galerty has quit [Client Quit] 02:05:09 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:14 -!- SriBri has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:09:29 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:11:52 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:12:49 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:56 -!- doubt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:35 -!- Kolbur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:45 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-671-g4330659 (34) 02:30:42 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:18 -!- ssteam has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 02:45:59 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:51 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:05 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:59 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:06:01 -!- twofortypee has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:06:28 -!- agolden has quit [Quit: agolden] 03:13:09 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:13:59 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:24:33 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:24:34 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:37:10 -!- Nobuharu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:38:09 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:48 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:12 -!- ___miek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:34 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:49 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:26 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:47 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:08 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:59:43 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 04:12:03 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12:03 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:18 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:23 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:35:49 -!- driftwood has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:37:14 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:42:36 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:53:56 -!- bmfx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:48 -!- Siveran has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:57:57 -!- angelichorsey has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:01 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:14 Hey guys, should Draconians be able to equip plate? It was available to me >.> 05:02:46 did you actually put it on 05:07:44 -!- driftwood has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:08:21 it was cursed, naw 05:08:26 seems to not be available now 05:08:30 weird, nvm 05:09:00 03noxdominus02 07[pull/7] * 0.17-a0-670-g49ed23c: Update species.txt 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/49ed23cd4f37 05:16:26 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:23:59 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:27:44 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:23 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:55:46 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:58:37 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:59:59 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:09 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:09 -!- angelichorsey has left ##crawl-dev 06:10:10 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:28:58 is it intended that the vp bite doesn't work on poisonous enemies? 06:34:22 are you at least thirsty 06:35:29 yes 06:35:56 what is the poison enemy 06:36:03 it might need to be bleedable 06:36:09 snakes and nagas 06:36:17 yeah that should work 06:36:29 it only worked on salamanders 06:36:36 which aren't poisonous 06:36:54 maybe the poison chunks thing broke it, idk 06:36:55 snakes shouldn't be poisonous anyway, they are venomous 06:37:08 yes that's what i suspect 06:37:17 that's why i asked if it's inteded ;) 06:37:22 *intended 06:37:51 vampire stuff does care about what kind of chunks a monster leaves 06:38:15 eg the boost to vamp weapons is better with clean chunks iirc 06:38:16 yes, poisonous corpses can't be drained by a vp 06:38:37 well thats actually new also 06:38:43 well vamp weapons do work on poisonous corpses though 06:38:54 my vamp has a vamp dagger 06:38:55 yeah but vampires are better at using them 06:39:04 and even better at using them if the monster leaves a clean corpse 06:39:30 but it really sucks that you constantly get into bloodless in poisonous branches 06:39:34 they get something like 2-3x the amount of healing 06:40:15 you have to leave the branch and hunt down some non-poisonous critters 06:41:00 yeah go to spider:0, forget the map and autoexplore 06:41:02 bottle a yak pack 06:41:22 bottle? 06:41:28 bottle blood 06:41:33 how? 06:41:36 with c 06:41:49 oh lol 06:42:01 it used to be an activated ability 06:42:01 random idea: change cigotuvi's embrace to work like death channel 06:42:10 but it was changed to replace butchering 06:42:14 i just used e on all the corpses directly 06:42:32 bottling is usually better because you dont waste a ton of blood if you get interrupted 06:42:42 and they last pretty long 06:46:16 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:49:45 -!- therealfakemoot has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 06:50:20 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:51:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:53:33 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:07 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59:52 -!- oblong has quit [Client Quit] 07:04:35 I won Thunderdome. 07:04:37 >floatRand the Grand Master (L27 OpMo), worshipper of Qazlal, escaped with the Orb, with 5448890 points after 7977 turns and 1:25:17. 07:04:59 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:05:46 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:01 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18:00 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:21:17 -!- iafm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:03 -!- onget has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:24:20 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:28:14 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:28:51 -!- grisha5 has quit [Client Quit] 07:42:02 &dump 07:42:02 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.16/perunasaurus/perunasaurus.txt 07:42:06 weren't these things removed? 07:44:28 in 0.17 07:44:31 you are playing 0.16 07:44:53 what 07:44:56 why am i playing 0.16 07:45:12 huh 07:45:14 who knows 07:47:17 -!- nikheizen has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:47:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:28 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:53 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:00:25 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:03:18 Alright, made the retributions. Dependant on tension like Chei, least to worst at tension: 1. shaft, 2. summon diamond obelisk, 3. 250 turns of slow, 4. dimensional anchor., 5. summons crystal guardians 08:06:18 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:10:35 does gretell have a manual/source floating around somewhere 08:10:43 there's no learndb entry 08:17:42 %git 08:17:43 07gammafunk02 * 0.17-a0-671-g4330659: Update an abyssal rune vault (nicolae) 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 24+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4330659aa369 08:19:17 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:19:27 ??spatial maelstrom 08:19:27 spatial maelstrom[1/2]: A particularly rare abyss-unique 0.12+ monster that is basically a non-confused and stronger spatial vortex converting nearby walls into spatial vortices. If you see several spatial vortices in a given area, head in the opposite direction. 08:19:40 ??spatial maelstrom[2 08:19:40 spatial maelstrom[2/2]: No, they won't follow you back to the dungeon to eat all the walls. Sorry. 08:20:39 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:38 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:11 %git :/ARTP_VAL 08:27:11 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.17-a0-530-gbe3d13a: Tweak a few ARTP_VALs 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be3d13a659ec 08:43:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:47:31 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:26 <|amethyst> kvaak: which part of gretell? 08:49:32 <|amethyst> kvaak: http://git.develz.org/?p=gretell.git;a=summary 08:49:44 !learn del lasty_to_do[11 08:49:44 !learn del lasty_to_do[8 08:49:44 !learn del lasty_to_do[6 08:49:44 !learn del lasty_to_do[4 08:49:44 <|amethyst> kvaak: but if you're interested in the monster queries 08:49:45 Deleted lasty to do[11/12]: in player.cc:corrode_equipment, update "prev_corr" on each iteration. Or don't. But make a conscious choice about it. 08:49:45 Deleted lasty to do[8/11]: revisit Wulndraste mp bonus 08:49:45 Deleted lasty to do[6/10]: adjust hex spell levels 08:49:45 Deleted lasty to do[4/9]: bring up D1 loot restrictions 08:49:47 I was mostly thinking of @?? but I figured it out already 08:49:54 <|amethyst> ah 08:50:18 Lasty: so efficient! Kill that todo list, kill it!! 08:50:18 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:50:23 !messages 08:50:23 (1/1) rchandra said (21h 47m 46s ago): thanks for the lethal Plog ring: the ring "Plog" {+/*Tele rF+ rN++ Str-2} with a 2 str spriggan 08:50:29 <|amethyst> I'm probably going to move my monster repo to github soon 08:50:55 !tell rchandra It's a pleasure! 08:50:56 dpeg: OK, I'll let rchandra know. 08:51:26 dpeg: haha 08:52:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:29 ?? zannick_to_do 08:54:29 I don't have a page labeled zannick_to_do in my learndb. 08:54:33 woo hoo! 08:55:22 TIL that non-MH_NATURAL creatures get a bonus to waking up 08:55:51 elliptic: are you around? I'm trying to remember what we agreed was a fair change to invis, and searching the logs for invis is taking forever. 08:56:40 Bleh. https://github.com/floatRand/randcrawl 08:57:28 nm, found it 09:06:08 -!- bones__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08:11 !abyss zannick 09:08:11 bh casts a spell. zannick is devoured by a tear in reality! 09:11:56 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:33 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-672-g65d1b74: Give an indication that fencer's gloves raise skill now 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65d1b7458d91 09:12:33 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-673-g9753fc1: Add an entropy weaver tile (floatRand) 10(26 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9753fc1d99af 09:12:33 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-674-ge25d68b: Nerf perfect stealth, usually invis (elliptic) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e25d68b65582 09:16:27 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:24:29 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:32:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33:17 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:01 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:35 -!- TMTurtle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:35 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:56:22 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:55 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:36 Idea, -really- powerful unrandart that temporarily cuts away your connection to god ( basically penance, but without wraths ) and bombards you occasionally with random wrath. 10:18:25 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:55 how would it work with atheist/demigod? 10:20:28 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:46 crawl trivia 10:21:13 did you know that, when you are told "You fail to extend your transformation any further", your action didn't actually take any time? 10:21:30 and you can freely re-try until you roll high on duration and actually extend your form? 10:21:37 well, freely until you miscast, I guess 10:23:16 Brannock_: It would work with atheist ( you will still get pummeled by wraths ), but demigods it would reject. 10:23:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think you misspelled "bug report" :P 10:24:05 well, I'm fixing it right now 10:24:10 while doing other things 10:24:12 <|amethyst> I figured 10:24:25 this is what happens when you don't document your functions 10:24:35 you end up with return types that make no sense 10:24:40 and, worse, that *look* like they make sense! 10:24:40 Like, Vestments of Iconoclast { +10 robe, rSmite, rF+, rC+, rN+, MR+, Slay+4, Blasphemous } 10:25:00 elliptic: Do you agree with the notions that you shouldn't be able to sleep-stab a majority of monsters in e.g. a 3-rune game? 10:26:44 gammafunk: what do you mean exactly by sleep-stab? are you counting invis, EH? 10:27:20 gammafunk: also, do you actually mean >50% by majority or do you mean something stronger 10:27:33 well I'm confused by lasty's commentary of: 10:27:42 After recent game where I sleep-stabbed the majority of monsters I killed 10:27:42 thanks to early invis, I felt that invis is currently too strong as a 10:27:43 infinitely available effect that makes sleep-stabs virtually guaranteed 10:28:25 I don't think it's unreasonable for stealthy chars who make good use of invis/EH/terrain to stab 75%+ of monsters 10:28:29 it seems to me that he's maybe reasoning from some standpoint that stabbing is just innately problematic 10:28:42 but I also expect that you can still do this after the invis nerf 10:28:45 yes, and that's what I think; that is the playstyle 10:29:02 Problem is that once a stabber runs into high-level enemy that doesn't sleep they are gonna have lot of trouble since they have no way to regain use of the stabbing ( at least in extended, everything can sInv and have tons of MR ) 10:29:07 you might be able to get >50% just with stealth alone 10:29:21 gammafunk: I think the objection is more that you can get 95% of monsters with invis 10:29:22 right, that adjustment seems fine to me, I just worry that this is the start of some kind of "remove stabbing" approach 10:31:09 seconding the 'funk's concerns 10:31:36 well maybe elliptic is right, and Lasty was just concerned about the really extreme utility of invis 10:31:53 <|amethyst> I thought that's what happens when a dev wins a game... something gets nerfed to make it not work anymore 10:31:55 I wasn't able to stab 95% even with early invis before, but it was pretty high 10:31:59 <|amethyst> maybe that's just me :) 10:32:08 only if neil wins! 10:32:16 then we check for bugs 10:32:23 <|amethyst> heh 10:32:49 <|amethyst> !lg @devteamnp won en -log 10:32:50 73. gammafunk, XL24 SpEn, T:83450: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/gammafunk/morgue-gammafunk-20150319-035210.txt 10:33:31 not all that many invis stabs 10:33:37 <|amethyst> 1096 stabs out of 2721 creatures killed 10:33:43 <|amethyst> !lg @devteamnp won en -log -2 10:33:44 72/73. Medar, XL27 MfEn, T:86593: http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/Medar/morgue-Medar-20150316-224422.txt 10:34:07 <|amethyst> 810/3041 10:34:44 -!- jmr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:05 <|amethyst> !lg elliptic won en -log -3 10:35:06 46/48. elliptic, XL23 SpEn, T:70677: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/elliptic/morgue-elliptic-20140405-061610.txt 10:35:07 <|amethyst> !lg elliptic won en -log -1 10:35:09 48. elliptic, XL23 SpEn, T:65964: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/elliptic/morgue-elliptic-20150112-185418.txt 10:35:33 <|amethyst> 1909/2238 :) 10:36:09 <|amethyst> (and 2097/2477 for the -3) 10:36:29 floatRand: re:blasphemous randart, could be interesting, I like the idea 10:36:49 95% was an exaggeration but it probably is close to that among monsters that I tried to stab, especially if you count invisistabbing awake monsters that don't see invis (which is still very strong) 10:37:14 !lg lasty won en -log 10:37:15 3. Lasty, XL26 OpEn, T:89267: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/morgue-Lasty-20150312-005720.txt 10:37:40 <|amethyst> 2270/2559 10:38:04 where are you getting 2270? 10:38:12 <|amethyst> oh 10:38:13 <|amethyst> sorry 10:38:19 elliptic: I think I agree with what you say, but I am always a bit puzzled by really strong players stating that they completely discard Stealth, Stabbing and Hexes as non-functional. 10:38:21 <|amethyst> 1870 10:38:28 <|amethyst> I typed 444 instead of 44 10:38:34 <|amethyst> homopolymer error 10:38:37 dpeg: well I'm not aware of players doing that 10:38:46 elliptic: stating that? 10:38:56 yes 10:39:16 not sure I can find references off-hand, but when I see something like this, I'll send you a message next time 10:39:17 I've heard them state that stealth outside of stabbing is not very usefull, but I'v not heard people clame you can't play a stabber 10:39:19 |amethyst: ah, you are counting the other stab types... a lot of those probably aren't one-shots 10:39:29 *claim 10:39:37 maybe it's just one good player iterating the same claim :) 10:39:59 http://pastebin.com/QdHgt84Q 10:40:15 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, adding up all stabs 10:40:38 |amethyst: or does the stab counter only count killing stabs? 10:41:36 <|amethyst> elliptic: no, it's probably all stabs 10:42:20 But most of them are instant kills on dedicated stabber anyway. 10:42:52 My dream is to someday get Boots of the Assassin and Dark Maul on same run. 10:43:29 Become maulstabber, hammering helpless Fire Dragon!!!!!!!! 10:45:57 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.1/20150402191859]] 10:47:04 dpeg: Is it your alter-ego, gepd, making these claims? 10:49:35 gammafunk: no, I love all of these 10:50:02 floatRand: the Warhammer build in Brogue! :) 10:50:03 I have heard tabstorm say how much he hates stealth unless you're a spen 10:50:45 isn't the real problem with evokable invisibility that it takes literally no training in evo to use it? 10:51:34 not really, you still want to train a fair amount of evo for it even if you can use it at low evo too 10:52:36 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Client Quit] 10:52:41 yes it gets better with some skill but you do have it available with enough tries at 0 evo 10:53:04 training it only allows you to use it in more situations 10:53:20 Does Invisibility, the spell, still exist? 10:53:22 it's not really functional for stabbing at 0 skill 10:53:22 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Client Quit] 10:53:29 yes, it does 10:53:36 (and it should continue existing imo) 10:53:45 gammafunk: why not? 10:54:20 I don't mean that you literally can't stab monsters using it, just that it's terribly impractical because the duration is awful and you have to try a million times 10:54:39 the duration means that it really isn't great against packs of monsters at 0 evo 10:54:50 a stabbing char would never pick up +Inv and say "yeah, I'll just never train evo to save that xp" 10:54:54 It'd be good if someone had a plan for the various duplicated effects (e.g. invisibility comes on a potion, a wand, a spell and evokables) -- this plan could be "it's alright" (plus reasoning). Myself, I have no idea (I have a feeling the current situation is not ideal, but nothing to offer.) 10:55:37 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:56:18 the fail rate is 71% at 0 skill so you don't have to try a million times 10:56:44 Kolbur: it still isn't reliable if you want to invisistab awake things 10:56:49 Kolbur: but the duration is the main thing 10:57:08 Saw Lasty's commit mail just now, sorry for being late. 10:57:30 71% fail trying to stab lots of monsters is pretty terrible 10:57:48 a million was not meant to be interpreted literally 10:57:52 gammafunk: well, the point is that if you see a sleeping monster then you step out of sight and evoke invis until it succeeds 10:58:02 and then go and stab it 10:58:04 I do that! 10:58:14 (and then the duration runs out and the monster's friends see you) 10:58:32 elliptic: removing Inv from evokables would solve that -- the other sources are finite or require skill investment. 10:58:33 yeah, it is possible to do this, but why would anyone tolerate it is my point 10:58:43 (if you want to stab a lot of things) 10:58:52 i'm fairly sure i invi-stabbed packs of sleeping monsters at 0 skill in my current game 10:58:55 dpeg: +Inv makes people raise evo skill too 10:59:04 I agree that 0-skill +Inv is quite useful beyond stabbing 10:59:10 dpeg: really I don't think there's a problem with evocable invis 10:59:14 elliptic: it's true, but unlike the spell you can use the ring right away. 10:59:24 okay, I defer that to you 10:59:37 dpeg: I would remove wand of invis if we wanted to reduce the number of distinct invis sources 10:59:44 gammafunk: because it works 10:59:53 what? 10:59:59 elliptic: I think I can understand. 11:00:03 <|amethyst> IMO "wand of invis other" instead of removal 11:00:16 <|amethyst> or "invis monster" to explain why they can self-zap it 11:00:43 tbh I think the wand is fine 11:00:46 <|amethyst> since that's one thing the other sources can't do 11:00:54 I guess so many sources is kind of just innately bad 11:00:55 it works with 0 skill, that's why it's tolerable to invoke it at 0 skill 11:01:14 |amethyst: I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone using wand of invis on an ally 11:01:28 it works vastly better at not 0 skill for stabbing, which is why stabbers use it at not 0 skill 11:01:47 <|amethyst> if evo invis at zero skill is actually a problem, the duration could scale more strongly with power 11:02:20 <|amethyst> elliptic: hm, probably not... can monsters even be awakened by other monsters just walking around? 11:02:26 well even if you train some evo for it, you still use can use it efficiently at ridiculously low skill 11:02:30 |amethyst: not normally 11:02:34 compared to the spell 11:02:50 -!- silentsigil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:03:00 <|amethyst> (a)bilities could get miscasts 11:03:04 Kolbur: my stabbers who use +Inv want 10-15 evo 11:03:10 I'd use it with 10 evo in any practical setting where I need it a lot, which is pretty comparable to the spell, which needs about 12 hexes 11:03:13 yes 11:03:15 Kolbur: my stabbers who use Invis spell want 10-15 hexes 11:03:29 and its duration is significantly worse than the spell even at that level of evo 11:03:47 gammafunk: is this actually communicated anywhere in the game? 11:03:49 but perhaps the spell's duration is excessive 11:03:52 the fact that you CAN use +Inv at 0 skill really isn't a big deal IMO 11:03:53 I get ~10 evo on pretty much every char and it gets me decent mileage from +Inv 11:03:54 I don't think so, no 11:03:57 dpeg: what? 11:04:01 gammafunk: not good 11:04:06 although it varies quite a lot 11:04:12 elliptic: that the various effects have different durations 11:04:16 dpeg: the duration being lower is communicated in the game 11:04:22 dpeg: you use it and it ends sooner 11:04:28 I don't see the issue at all 11:04:39 yeah, we don't describe durations of things in descriptive text 11:04:40 dpeg: the duration of both spell and evocable invis also vary a lot based on power 11:05:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:42 elliptic: you think that the wand would be a good target for removal? 11:05:43 like it just takes one use of +Inv that ends after 8 turns to realize that it sometimes has low duration 11:06:05 although the obvious difference is that you need quite a bit of hexes to cast invis so it has some spellpower by default 11:06:06 call me a sloppy player but I've used all of the sources of invisibility available and I wasn't aware of the duration differences 11:06:06 yeah and even then comparisons aren't really important in a game 11:06:13 gammafunk: I think the wand is in a strange place, since it is fairly rare to find it early on and later on you are likely to have a renewable source 11:06:15 &dump 11:06:16 http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/crawl/morgue/Kolbur/Kolbur.txt 11:06:21 like, you don't need to know "this is N less turns than the spell invis" 11:06:29 you just care what the duration actually is 11:06:36 dpeg: were you aware that invis spell lasts longer with more spell power? 11:06:36 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:39 IMO the wand is the least problematic source of invis since it isn't renewable 11:06:47 it sounds like all these differences were invisible to the player 11:06:48 elliptic: yes 11:06:56 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:58 ??mantis 11:06:59 mantis[1/2]: To report bugs or submit new content like vaults, patches or tiles, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 11:06:59 but not about ring vs spell 11:07:08 dpeg: so what did you think ring of invis duration depended on? 11:07:19 kvaak: I think that's why the potion is the least problematic source 11:07:35 <|amethyst> the potion doesn't give anywhere near as much contam 11:07:44 dpeg: they don't even have the same inputs! 11:07:46 <|amethyst> in fact, it gives no contam 11:07:59 <|amethyst> with the potion, only the invis status is giving you contam 11:08:14 I think it's cool to have the three kinds of sources: consumable, evocable, castable 11:08:32 elliptic: I guess I am confused... I took this discussion to imply that spell gives (at comparably skill levels) better duration than the ring. 11:08:36 yeah, my problem with the wand is just that it is a rare item that is functionally equivalent to finding a small stack of potions 11:08:46 esp if the evocable source is less powerful than the castable source, like it currently is 11:08:47 since people don't really recharge it 11:08:59 mummies! 11:08:59 I'd recharge it if I needed invis for zot or elf 11:09:11 and -potion (ozo refrig, Ru) 11:09:12 does stabbing a sleeping enemy while invisible count as sleep stab? i guess so... 11:09:13 dpeg: but what does "comparable skill levels" mean? spell power also depends on lots of other factors like intelligence 11:09:19 and probably carry it around at 0 charges in case I needed it in an emergency 11:09:36 elliptic: yes, sorry for saying so much nonsense today 11:09:38 dpeg: or think about this: did you know that bolt of fire spell generally does more damage than wand of fire? 11:09:46 this is just the same thing 11:09:52 of course not -- I am truly an unspoiled player 11:10:08 <|amethyst> I think in general, at similar skill levels, evocables *should* have a worse effect than the spell 11:10:12 |amethyst: yes 11:10:20 <|amethyst> since evocations gives you many more options than one spell school 11:10:24 i guess i'm not people if people don't recharge wand of invisibility 11:10:35 isn't that the case already though 11:10:48 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:12:50 <|amethyst> yes, that's what I meant, evocable durations shouldn't be increased to match the spells 11:13:50 |amethyst: fwiw, I am not saying it should. 11:14:38 Erolcha's description too long, 'more' not working 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9649 by rchandra 11:15:35 rchandra: you have to press down arrow or enter or such for some reason 11:15:39 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:11 I had the exact same problem a few months ago and needed someone to tell me this too... IMO it is bad to use -more- if we aren't going to let people use space 11:16:42 Okay, 1 chance in 500 that Iconoclast's calls random god's wrath on you. It blocks SPELL_SMITING completely, gives neat defenses and has +10 enchantment for robe. Plus it gives 10 penance with any god you are worshipping and keeps it constantly at 10. It blocks regular wrath so the penance won't run down while wearing it. 11:16:56 thanks. I tried some other key but not enter 11:17:56 (does anyone here remember why we don't allow space to page through monster descriptions? I remember there was some reason but not what it was) 11:18:10 Dagoth (L1 TeSu) (D:1) 11:18:27 <|amethyst> IIRC it had something to do with the ?/m screen and going back to the search results versus going back to the game? 11:18:31 <|amethyst> !crashlog dagoth 11:18:32 8. Dagoth, XL1 TeSu, T:357 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Dagoth/crash-Dagoth-20150418-161810.txt 11:19:29 <|amethyst> Messages: 11:19:29 <|amethyst> > 11:19:30 <|amethyst> > 11:19:30 <|amethyst> > 11:19:31 <|amethyst> > 11:19:33 <|amethyst> etc 11:19:44 <|amethyst> seen that before 11:19:44 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:19:55 -!- grit is now known as Guest47211 11:20:34 <|amethyst> hm, in the lua console 11:27:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:27:57 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:27:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:57 Dagoth (L3 TeSu) (D:2) 11:28:04 &rc dagoth 11:28:06 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/Dagoth.rc 11:28:23 !blame gammafunk 11:28:23 I pronounce gammafunk... Guilty! 11:28:56 (okay I guess there is a lot of non-gammafunk lua there too) 11:29:49 <|amethyst> !crashlog dagoth 11:29:50 9. Dagoth, XL3 TeSu, T:1731 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Dagoth/crash-Dagoth-20150418-162658.txt 11:30:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:32:38 oh hey, cool 11:34:01 and look, he properly gives me credit for save with message 11:34:08 finally, the recognition I deserve! 11:39:37 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:55 dpeg: you once said that Trog doesn't use invocations because it gives you MP. but now that evocations also does, is it time to weaken berserker a bit (and improve cohesion) by using it? 11:41:13 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:54 <|amethyst> ? 11:41:56 should gozag's abilities use invocation? 11:41:58 Alright, it took just hour to implement, draw. Now it is time to build and test. 11:41:59 what about ru's? 11:42:15 I think there are about as many gods that don't use invocations skill as those that do... 11:42:18 <|amethyst> the problem isn't "it's possible for Trog worshippers to get MP" 11:42:26 <|amethyst> but "it's necessary for Trog worshippers to get MP" 11:43:02 rchandra: don't understand, need more context. 11:43:14 Also going out with my wife, back in an hour. 11:43:35 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:44:06 before giving gozag invocations i'd give gozag something that benefits from invocations and someone would be willing to raise invocations for :p 11:44:11 I do think most/all gods should 11:45:00 rchandra: evocations has always given MP 11:45:25 sorry, now that it gives more. (with "now" meaning a couple of years ago I think) 11:45:42 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Client Quit] 11:45:45 or maybe not always but for a while yes 11:45:59 kvaak: off-topic!!!! 11:46:05 rchandra: why? 11:47:20 you have a skill that means "talk to the gods", it shouldn't mean "talk to 60% of the gods" 11:47:41 well, trog isn't much for conversation... 11:48:18 also it feels like the non-inv gods are a lot stronger (Kiku might be the worst offender, she and Nem have their weird alternate skills) 11:48:31 <|amethyst> kiku's ability is kind of insane 11:48:32 ??gods[2] 11:48:32 gods[2/2]: Ashenzari, Beogh, Cheibriados, Dithmenos, Elyvilon, Fedhas, Gozag, Jiyva, Kikubaaqudgha, Lugonu, Makhleb, Nemelex Xobeh, Okawaru, Qazlal, Ru, Sif Muna, Trog, Vehumet, Xom, Yredelemnul, Zin, the Shining One. 11:48:36 here's another view: invocations skill is a way to weaken gods, by requiring you to train another skill to use their active abilities effectively. 11:48:40 <|amethyst> infinite corpses 11:48:47 we don't really want to weaken all gods. 11:48:53 fedhas, oka, yred and zin are weak? 11:49:06 <|amethyst> weaker than if they didn't use invo skill, yes 11:49:08 ^ 11:49:37 <|amethyst> e.g. if fedhas used summoning 11:49:42 <|amethyst> or oka used fighting skill 11:49:50 oka and yred really don't require much inv skill 11:50:00 yeah invocations is a mess IMO 11:50:00 it's 9 of 22 that don't use the skill at all, and a few that don't much 11:50:07 well there are very few gods that require lots of invo 11:50:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:50:19 its basically a skill tax for... certain gods. if you want to use their high power nukes 11:50:30 and then for other gods is a skill tax for getting decent fail rates 11:50:40 and then other gods don't use it 11:51:06 is this actually a balancing factor, or is it random and arbitrary based on the chocie of whoever made the god? 11:51:27 I think inv skill works decently for the gods that offer significant benefits for raising the skill higher than 10-12 11:51:41 since you end up in tradeoffs between that skill and other skills 11:51:46 but there aren't many of those 11:51:51 agreed 11:51:54 if the skill is spammable, like said nukes 11:52:11 yeah, invocations isn't very exciting on okawaru. 11:52:12 for gods like oka and yred the reliance on inv skill doesn't do much 11:52:26 I have no idea how well invocations scales on yred tbh 11:52:34 mostly drain life 11:52:35 for drain life or w/e 11:52:37 <|amethyst> make finesse speed depend on invo 11:52:37 ya 11:52:50 that wouldn't do much. oka is basically hero 11:52:57 <|amethyst> make hero boost depend on invo 11:52:57 I use finesse a lot on oka 11:52:57 oh, but then we have, for instance, chei, whose nuke power doesn't depend on invocations. so you advance it to reduce fail rate 11:53:04 that might work yes 11:53:05 and ru who ignores invocations 11:53:17 ??invocations 11:53:17 invocations[1/2]: Used by TSO, Beogh, Cheibriados, Dithmenos, Elyvilon, Fedhas, Lugonu, Makhleb, Okawaru, Qazlal, Sif Muna, Yredelemnul, Zin. Not used by Ashenzari, Gozag, Kikubaaqudgha, Nemelex Xobeh, Jiyva, Trog, Vehumet, Xom, Ru. 11:53:23 <|amethyst> Ru could reasonably use invocations, yes 11:53:23 ??invocations[2 11:53:23 invocations[2/2]: Jiyva, Trog, and Ashenzari base invoked powers on your piety, Gozag on your gold, Kikubaaqudgha on your Necromancy, Nemelex on your evocations (which they train). Xom is Xom. 11:53:33 Ru not using invocations is flavour iirc 11:53:36 ru was very specifically designed to not use invocations 11:53:36 |amethyst he could. but it's a skill tax 11:53:37 yes 11:53:43 ru doesn't give a poop about worship or following 11:53:45 I remember Lasty talking about it at the time 11:53:46 so that's a ru nerf. 11:54:03 I think it's not just flavor, I remember there being a strong feeling that ru should depend on piety (sacrifices) alone 11:54:08 mechanically 11:54:08 yeah I tried to convince Lasty to have Ru use invocations, but alas 11:54:17 kvaak: except that if you abandon ru you lose your powers... 11:54:18 wait wtf 11:54:22 given that Ru costs you something sintead of nothing, it doesn't also need invocations 11:54:29 well 11:54:31 all gods cost you something 11:54:41 something in addition to that something 11:55:00 why do you need more than that something something 11:55:01 ? 11:55:05 anyway if I were to make changes to invocations I would actually make more gods not use it 11:55:09 but if Ru using inv was the cost to make all other gods use invocations, that would be fine 11:55:17 the point of the invocations skill is that if you switch gods, you're still good at doing god things. 11:55:37 but that breaks when 1/3rd of the gods don't use the skill, and at least another 1/3rd just advance it to 7-10 for fail rates 11:55:38 it is? 11:55:50 i always thought the point of invocations was to get more mileage out of your god 11:55:53 since I think that depending on piety or on some other skill plays better than invocations if raising invocations high isn't going to be a very interesting decision 11:55:59 and changing gods isn't something that you usually (should) do 11:56:02 kvaak for a lot of gods, leaving invocations at 0 is not workable 11:56:05 rast: that's not the point 11:56:15 agreed with kvaak 11:56:23 <|amethyst> for many gods, leaving spc at 0 is not workable 11:56:27 ?? gods 11:56:28 gods[1/2]: '?' '/' 'G' for a complete list (in game). Type "?? reasons" (in IRC) to get a list of reasons which might motivate you to worship that particular god. 11:56:29 <|amethyst> Sif, Veh, Kiku 11:56:36 in that case maybe invcoations should be reset at 0 when you switch gods :( 11:56:40 I think the fact that invo transfers between gods is just a matter of simplicity 11:56:55 <|amethyst> is it a problem that some god switches are easier than others? 11:56:59 I don't think there's any reason to *prevent* it, but it's not something that's important to the design 11:56:59 no 11:56:59 ash, beogh, fedhas, gozag, jiyva, kiku, makh, nem, oka, ru, sif, trog, veh, xom 11:57:07 all of those work perfectly fine with 0 invo 11:57:16 -!- Sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:57:21 god switches are a part of the game. not free, but not impossible either. some are easier than others 11:57:28 <|amethyst> kvaak: assuming you change some things to use piety instead? 11:57:30 kvaak: disagree about makh, greater servant is a large part of makh's power 11:57:31 oka with 0 invocations is dumb as hell 11:57:32 my last comment was wrt invo transfers 11:57:36 kvaak: yred fits at least as well/poorly as many of those 11:57:40 <|amethyst> yeah, makh was what I was thinking 11:57:42 you can also play godless 11:57:54 well okay, drop makh 11:57:56 rast: but then how will you get this hanging fan....!? 11:58:03 rast: uh 11:58:04 0-invo sif channel isn't a good idea either, but you can certainly win with 0 invo 11:58:09 you do realize hero is perfectly usable with 0 invo right 11:58:14 since the fail chance also scales with piety 11:58:28 PleasingFungus you *can* go with oka and just get gifts, ignoring finesse and accepting a bad fail rate on heroism. 11:58:30 the duration increase from a little inv is nice though 11:58:41 its very far from optimal. 11:58:55 6% fail on hero, oka with 130 piety 11:59:00 that's lower than what I usually get on haste 11:59:07 and haste has potentially catastrophic miscasts 11:59:11 huh, had no idea it was so low. 11:59:21 you still want to advance it for finesse IMO. but ok, fine 11:59:22 lasts for 30+ turns 11:59:23 anyway oka could easily make heroism duration depend on piety too or be constant at some higher value or some such 11:59:32 if we wanted to make oka not use inv skill 11:59:36 (similarly for finesse) 11:59:40 elliptic or base it on fighting skill 11:59:43 and I think it would be an improvement 12:00:00 finesse, maybe, but hero is so ridiculously good you can just ignore finesse if you want to for some reason 12:00:01 inb4 remove inv 12:00:19 inb4 remove Kolbur 12:00:21 Kolbur: um 12:00:33 elliptic put Fighting/2 in Oka's formulas in place of current Invocations, done 12:00:49 Kolbur: anyway if I were to make changes to invocations I would actually make more gods not use it 12:00:54 you would never want to advance invocations close to 13.5 with Oka anyway 12:01:00 rast: that sounds worse than having it be constant or depending on piety level 12:01:03 because yes 12:01:04 i don't usually get 27 fighting either 12:01:09 why have it depend on something if it doesn't matter much 12:01:14 elliptic it would also depend on piety 12:01:17 yes the magic fakeInv skills are the worst 12:01:28 rast: but why add extra complication 12:01:40 why does oka currently care about invocations? 12:01:42 there's no need to have it depend on any skill? 12:01:51 elliptic: does that mean you would want to remove invocation skill in the long run? 12:01:52 kiku is probably the worst offender since if you go kiku you basically get necro anyway 12:01:54 yeah, just be like trog 12:02:18 Kolbur: possibly, though I do like how inv skill works on a couple gods (e.g. ely) 12:02:36 it'd be a lot harder to balance say ely/qaz vs okawaru without invocations 12:02:44 and qaz, yes 12:02:58 ely, zin, qaz 12:03:02 but I think it would be fine to have inv skill just for 5ish gods or some such 12:03:04 if invocations is mostly dumped, a few gods could still use a FakeInv skill 12:03:11 I'm ok with that 12:03:13 you could probably tone down the scaling on lucy too and make higher invo more desirable 12:03:16 what is FakeInv 12:03:23 PleasingFungus like evocations with neme 12:03:24 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: necro for kiku 12:03:42 Okay, I added a prompt for iconoclast. 12:04:01 could also use XL in place of the fakeInv skill 12:04:06 not XL 12:04:08 because that maxes a lot slower than piety 12:04:16 <|amethyst> what about sif? 12:04:31 stuff depending on species exp apt is weird IMO 12:04:32 spc 12:04:35 fedhas is an oddball, mostly because wandering mushrooms are so powerful early regardless of invo 12:04:35 avg(all_spell_schools) 12:04:37 <|amethyst> I think using one of the magic skills for sif invo would be bad 12:04:42 spellcasting. or xl 12:04:49 invo works pretty well with sif 12:04:56 but then you also have 20 invo oklobs 12:04:57 it scales slowly 12:05:02 <|amethyst> because currently you have that early tension of whether to train something that gives you piety 12:05:10 which, oddly enough, are limited by loot you might randomly find or not find 12:05:12 elliptic species XL apts are hardly relevant anyway 12:05:15 <|amethyst> s/gives/doesn't give/ 12:05:18 |amethyst: sif could be one of the gods that still uses inv skill 12:05:20 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:20 sif is a way i'd like to see okawaru work, actually 12:05:39 in terms of hero, rchandra? 12:05:42 <|amethyst> hero boost depending on invocations? 12:05:54 <|amethyst> for amount of the boost, that is 12:05:55 yeah, or duration getting longer with enough 12:06:08 rchandra: duration does depend on invocations 12:06:10 it already gets longer but since it lasts for 30-something turns with 0 invo... 12:06:12 rchandra: glad to hear the new sacrifices are keeping things interesting! I do think it's good to keep enough different ones that it's hard to guarantee you'll get the options you want 12:07:01 seems the duration doesn't scale with piety, unlike fail chance 12:07:02 Lasty: how are you feeling about that -Resistance sac? 12:07:07 oh I was sitting on this bug but it doesn't work the way I want: if you abandon an Invocations god you can still train invo until you save/load 12:07:07 although the impact on fail chance is tiny 12:07:18 fr: Sack of Resistances 12:07:32 PleasingFungus: pretty good 12:07:41 11% fail hero at 0 invo 30 piety, 3% fail hero at 0 invo 200 piety 12:07:43 gammafunk: contains rF, rC, rElec, rN, rPois, rCorr, but NOT MR 12:07:48 dang 12:07:58 but I found it in Elf!!!! 12:08:02 rchandra: I figured out how to make something actually stop training; I can take care of that bug 12:08:02 rip 12:08:03 <|amethyst> rDeath 12:08:12 |amethyst: also prevents DEATH_BY_WINNING 12:08:24 You win! You die... 12:08:30 <|amethyst> That's okay, you get to play in minus world then 12:08:39 ! 12:09:06 <|amethyst> where it takes random chunks of the binary and converts them into a map 12:09:11 gammafunk: I don't want to remove stabbing; I just felt that I barely ended up in danger during that game. For like 10 skill in three skills I could defeat almost everything in the game without risk 12:09:14 fr: all games end with 'you die...' regardless of ktyp 12:09:15 and that just felt boring 12:09:31 I think stabbing should be very effective but also have risk sometimes 12:09:43 well it kind of does already 12:09:44 Lasty: there are a fair number of monsters in V and Depths that see invis, you know 12:09:55 also snake 12:09:59 elliptic: yeah, but by then you can work up a plan B and maybe also a plan C 12:09:59 * PleasingFungus hisses. 12:10:01 Lasty: maybe you just didn't run into them that much in your game 12:10:05 in my last spen game things would wake up sometimes 12:10:25 <|amethyst> Lasty: was this a Sp or Vp? 12:10:33 Lasty: should stabbers have to use a plan B and a plan C? 12:10:35 <|amethyst> because the racial stealth thing could maybe use a nerf 12:10:47 Lasty: berserkers don't, conjurers don't... 12:10:49 though maybe they were just laughing at my shields skill 12:10:55 elliptic, rchandra: when you can kill 50%-90% of the monsters without risk or trouble, the game just starts feeling very sparse. You rarely end up having to make interesting decisions. 12:11:15 <|amethyst> then maybe you're too good at the game? 12:11:17 elliptic: but the conjurer/berserker plan A has more risk than the stabber plan A 12:11:32 that's probably more related to sp/vp being able to escape from everything that does wake 12:11:35 |amethyst: but that's the point: I wasn't playing particularly well. It was o-invis-tab, basically 12:11:38 |amethyst: probably "being good at the game" shouldn't equal "playing a stabber" 12:11:44 Lasty: well the stabber plan A is pretty risky against some things 12:11:51 elliptic: yeah, and I like that. 12:11:52 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I certainly have died a lot as a stabber 12:12:06 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: maybe it's just "play a stabber and don't be bad" :) 12:12:11 my initial desire was to keep invis as effective as it was, but just limit the number of sources 12:12:15 v0v 12:12:17 but you were against that IIRC 12:12:37 |amethyst: it was an octopode 12:12:50 IMO we should see how the invis nerf that was committed works 12:13:02 and not argue too much about it until then :P 12:13:04 what exactly was the invis nerf? 12:13:33 stuff is more likely to wake up if you try to sneak up on them with invis 12:13:47 in practice the berserker plan A is really just tab and is not really risky vs a vast majority of monsters, much like how stabbing works 12:13:54 I mean another way of putting it is this: I think it'd be a little much to take the Haste spell/wand/potion and add in a ring of haste, a boots of haste, and an evokable haste property available on all artefacts 12:14:01 <|amethyst> Lasty: yeah, octopode also has an insane stealth modifier 12:14:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:10 <|amethyst> Lasty: those three races have 18 12:14:11 and haste arguably is a less binary threat reducer 12:14:17 |amethyst: yeah 12:14:23 and cloak of haste 12:14:41 Kolbur: I switched cloak to boots for thematic reasons 12:14:45 |amethyst: and with dith its doubled, tho I don't think I was playing Dith 12:15:09 <|amethyst> I could see making stealth depend more on skill and less on race 12:15:27 <|amethyst> since skill already depends on race to an extent 12:15:27 Lasty: but I don't think your argument really has to do with that; if you accept that haste spell/wand/potion alone is good and those additional aren't needed, the situation really doesn't change relative to invis 12:15:33 Do it, I want to play my TrAs 12:15:33 I'd be in favor of that, |am 12:15:37 |amethyst: 12:15:41 the fact that +Inv exists isn't all that relevent to the mechanics of stabbing 12:15:42 racial MR and stealth are the main hidden race differences, right? any others? 12:15:48 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:56 effects of size 12:16:19 gammafunk: I didn't say I was trying to overhaul stabbing; I just felt that specifically the stabbing you get when you get early repeatable access to invis is sick 12:16:26 to an unreasonable degree 12:16:40 Lasty: well then if you find the spell in a book, that's unreasable as well, no? 12:16:50 and likewise if you find the haste spell in a book? 12:17:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:08 gammafunk: sure, absolutely, and people have discussed removing the Haste spell. At least spells take investment, tho. 12:17:22 so does evocable invis 12:17:25 You can be a perfectly decent invis-stabber with 0 Evo 12:17:26 you have to train stealth 12:17:44 yeah haste requires only some low SC and 10-12 charms 12:17:56 elliptic: yeah, but Stealth is 1) cheap, 2) good for other reasons as well, and 3) doesn't take that much investment to make stabbing good. 12:17:59 invis stabbing reuires 10-15 in hexes/evo + a lot of stealth 12:18:21 0 Evo is fine, since you can just sit out of LOS and spam the ability until it works 12:18:29 Lasty: doesn't work that well against packs 12:18:36 because low duration 12:18:41 yes, no one doing a lot of stabbing sets evo at 0 12:18:43 or open areas 12:18:50 a lot of stabbing with +Inv, that is 12:19:24 There are circumstances where it fails, sure, but you can get a lot out of it at 0 investment. Overall, I feel like the other forms of stabbing are much better balances of risk/investment to reward. 12:19:28 (for gameplay) 12:19:45 what other forms specifically? 12:19:54 well we just made invisistabbing a lot weaker 12:19:54 not +Inv and not Invis spell? 12:19:59 resistable hexes, nets, distraction, awake-invis... 12:20:07 so I don't know how the balance of risk/investment is 12:20:29 5 evo is a lot like 0 costwise but might be a better place to argue from 12:20:39 rchandra: fair point 12:21:02 (again, why are we discussing this now right after just nerfing invisistabbing a lot?) 12:21:12 are resting monsters considered asleep or just chilling out with eyes open? 12:21:14 sure, we can just see how it plays out 12:21:15 elliptic: haha, fair nuff 12:21:23 <|amethyst> Kolbur: resting? 12:21:23 I'm just trying to defend my rationale for making the nerf 12:21:38 Kolbur: probably the latter since silence wakes them up 12:21:53 Kolbur: natural monsters are considered asleep, unnatural ones awake, according to comments in source 12:22:02 <|amethyst> yeah 12:22:14 <|amethyst> and the latter get a +10 bonus to their perception 12:22:22 and the former a -10 penalty 12:22:26 then invisibility should give no stealth bonus (or however it works) at all against natural monsters 12:22:40 i mean vs unnatural monsters 12:22:51 Kolbur: well, you still can't be seen 12:22:52 wait not, natural was right... lol sorry 12:23:01 <|amethyst> Lasty: ? 12:23:07 Kolbur: oh 12:23:10 <|amethyst> Lasty: only hibernating naturals get that -10 12:23:12 invis helping against sleeping monsters is the main point of the spell at the moment 12:23:17 |amethyst: oh, I see 12:23:23 |amethyst: skimmed it too fast 12:23:46 it could be changed but I would want a better reason than realism concerns... 12:24:11 elliptic: but isn't invis already very powerful vs awake monsters? 12:24:38 <|amethyst> not for killing awake monsters when you don't have much stealth/sbl skill 12:24:42 yes, but it is even more powerful against sleeping monsters :P 12:24:52 <|amethyst> and if you do have much stealth skill you're probably encountering sleeping monsters 12:24:54 |amethyst: it still gives you lots of ev and the occasional hit 12:25:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-674-ge25d68b (34) 12:25:09 I mean, try fighting DEBMs and DEMAs with invis 12:25:12 and without it 12:25:43 <|amethyst> when I said "killing" I was referring to offense specifically 12:26:03 invis is definitely nice even against awake monsters 12:26:39 and in that situation the risk/investment : reward balance is pretty good, I think. 12:26:45 it's also a pretty good defense vs ranged attackers 12:27:49 Alright it finally compiled. 12:27:53 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:54 Time to test this baby. 12:31:43 http://i.imgur.com/B6QC16z.png 12:34:25 uh, what's the point of inedible chunks 12:36:57 ghouls, zombies, simulac, etc 12:37:05 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:11 chunks, not corpses 12:37:31 I don't see how that conflicts with anything that I said. 12:37:43 what do chunks have to do with zombies or simulacra 12:38:00 zombies are made from corpses. corpses, when butchered, produce chunks. 12:38:10 yes 12:38:13 and said chunks...? 12:38:18 what? 12:38:24 what do you do with hem? 12:38:28 <|amethyst> because butchery making a corpse disappear completely would be weird 12:38:30 can you make zombies out of them? 12:38:37 we could change it so that inedible corpses don't produce chunks when you butcher them, if you're not a ghoul, but I mean 12:38:38 why 12:39:04 <|amethyst> why do centaur bardings exist when you're not playing a centaur? 12:39:11 I can wear them when I'm a centaur 12:39:18 <|amethyst> you can eat the chunks when you're a ghoul 12:39:21 <|amethyst> problem solved 12:40:57 .moon patman 12:40:58 No keyword 'patman' 12:41:02 .moon -2 12:41:03 9/10. [2015-04-18 10:31:33] patman the Spry (L20 HEFE of Ashenzari) entered Lehudib's Moon Base on turn 67029. (Vaults:3) 12:41:11 this guy kills every demonic plant he sees 12:41:15 hahaha 12:41:17 yesss 12:41:20 death to demons!!! 12:41:26 we should make them have pain mirror 12:41:49 or spines 12:42:03 I guess that wouldn't work if he's sticky flaming them 12:43:33 PleasingFungus: I was reading out of the corner of my eye, and I read "guess to demons!!!" then saw it was "death to demons!!!" and it made me think of a final-fantasy-type god ability where you guess a monster's HP and if you're right it dies. :p 12:44:08 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:44:08 very OP against uniques 12:45:41 roll a d6 for each XL you have, if you match the monster's remaining hp it dies 12:45:50 lol 12:46:05 you have to have an animation for the die roll though 12:46:25 Carnival Barkticus, the god of personal-attribute-guessing 12:48:08 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-675-g091e9a1: Don't trap players in vampire form (9646) 10(47 minutes ago, 8 files, 69+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/091e9a1607df 12:48:08 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-676-gfa0b78e: Improve some invalid transform behaviour 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 56+ 41-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa0b78e20231 12:48:08 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-677-gc541d4c: Adjust Ru invocations titles, in case anyone ever gets one. 10(68 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c541d4c850f0 12:48:27 oh god damn it, I didn't think that push went through 12:48:29 ah well 12:49:09 Awright, what's the current consensus on summoning spells under Sacrifice Love? Just don't allow the player to cast them at all? 12:49:37 idk 12:49:45 you mean ally spells, including necro stuff? 12:49:50 Yeah 12:49:51 per that ticket 12:49:53 yeah 12:50:16 I had a conversation in here about it like 3 mo ago, and I think "just don't allow it" was the direction we were headed in 12:50:21 idk. it does seem a little odd that they aren't marked useless 12:50:27 at the very least 12:50:29 I wasn't here for the conversation tho 12:50:52 they aren't technically useless right now tho 12:51:01 hostile butterflies are pretty good for example 12:51:03 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:11 the rage of the butterfiles... 12:51:13 er, flies 12:51:21 Lord of the butterflies? 12:51:44 new unique 12:51:47 hmm if i'm reading melee_attack.cc right it seems like vampires could never draw blood from monsters with poisonous chunks (when they existed), even with rpois 12:52:08 which seems weird but entirely feasible since everything to do with vampires in melee_attack.cc is horrifying 12:52:18 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:52:42 I've heard that before, yes 12:53:02 they also couldn't drink or bottle their blood out of combat 12:53:03 Lasty: I think the player shouldn't ever be able to summon hostiles (unless specifically intended to be hostile by the spell, e.g. demon) 12:53:03 i i r c 12:53:09 oh sorry actually 12:53:17 I'm confusing poisonchunks with spiders and such 12:53:25 you could definitely drink poisonous blood from corpses yeah 12:53:27 still, I have heard the thing about melee combat before 12:53:39 it's especially good because there's then lots of code making healing etc from bite attacks more effective if it's from a monster with clean chunks 12:53:48 despite being unable to bite any other kind 12:54:08 elliptic: yeah, I think that's what I think now too 12:54:15 elliptic: I'm working on that now 12:54:15 (i'm making vp just able to drink blood from anything with blood) 12:54:28 there are so many ally spells! 12:55:05 MarvinPA: contaminated chunks will always live on in my heart...... 12:55:08 !send Lasty Recall 12:55:08 Sending Recall to Lasty. 12:55:17 oh wow yeah that's probably it 12:55:22 i forgot about those 12:55:23 what about Tukima's Dance? 12:55:52 Also, what about allowing the raise-dead effects because they destroy corpses? 12:55:57 also the healing is capped at your xl 12:55:59 vampires....... 12:56:03 what happens if you cast tukima's dance under summon love right now 12:56:13 no, just make them learn corpse rot / embrace 12:56:14 hostile dancing weapon probably? 12:56:17 <|amethyst> you get a hostile that doesn't haunt you 12:56:18 MarvinPA: at one point I estimated that half the special cases in crawl's code are for vampires 12:56:30 i'd believe it 12:56:32 oh does it not attack you 12:56:35 elliptic: I was wondering specifically because of the haunt effect 12:56:46 <|amethyst> I'm sure it attacks you 12:56:54 <|amethyst> but doesn't specifically have haunt 12:57:08 PleasingFungus: right now, hostile weapon, yeah 12:57:12 <|amethyst> s/(doesn't) (specifically)/\2 \1/ 12:57:32 I'm pretty sure |amethyst is right. That's my memory of what I implemented. 12:57:53 just tested and he's right 12:57:58 PleasingFungus: was that estimate pre-octopode? 12:58:08 I never played pre-octopode 12:58:14 for me, octopodes are a core part of the crawl experience. 12:58:22 essential. 12:58:34 So here are the edge cases: allow tukima's for the disarm effect? Allow corpse-destroying ally spells for the corpse-destroying? Allow summon forest for the trees? 12:59:11 none of the above 12:59:12 is it useful to destroy corpses by creating hostile zombies if the worst thing that can be done with them is "create hostile zombies" 12:59:16 "SPELL_BROTHERS_IN_ARMS" -- Trog would be so angry if it knew. 12:59:24 hostile simulacra are much worse 12:59:27 PleasingFungus: creating simulacra . . . yeah 12:59:29 also miasma 12:59:30 mm 12:59:37 also again, creating hostiles for your own purposes is bad 12:59:38 corpse rot isn't a real monster spell. 12:59:47 I mean, you can already do that 12:59:48 PleasingFungus: bog bodies have it :p 12:59:49 just more tediously 12:59:49 free walls, etc 12:59:53 its a player spell though, and yes bog bodies have (had?) it 12:59:54 Lasty: no they don't!! 13:00:00 PleasingFungus: really? 13:00:04 bog body (03n) | Spd: 10 (swim: 140%) | HD: 6 | HP: 32-45 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 25, 412(cold:6-17) | 07undead, 10doors, amphibious, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire, 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 260 | Sp: b.cold (3d14), slow, corpse rot | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 13:00:04 %?? bog body 13:00:05 %git :/[Bb]og 13:00:05 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.17-a0-586-gd58ca9d: Prune the changelog slightly 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d58ca9dac2db 13:00:08 feh 13:00:10 close enough 13:00:10 good 13:00:20 lol 13:00:23 fair enough 13:00:28 I missed that commit 13:00:50 also vampires... heal extra from attacks with vamp weapons? but still have all those chunk type restrictions on that healing? and also get some nutrition from their vamp weapon attacks? except that nutrition is then divided by 5? help??? 13:00:56 we can't know if they have it or not 13:01:01 it was removed from the changelog.... 13:01:11 MarvinPA: I love vampires 13:01:42 well youd get an awful lot of nutrition if it wasnt divided by five! 13:01:49 does vp blood sense still exist? 13:02:04 hopefully not 13:02:06 that was one of those vp things I didn't find out about until way later 13:02:15 nope, and i'm going to remove this whole weird bonus thing and get shouted at by whoever that person is who complained about blood sense being removed 13:02:25 !send MarvinPA the flavor cost... 13:02:26 Sending the flavor cost... to MarvinPA. 13:02:27 gammafunk: I found out about it by coding squarelos 13:02:33 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:33 haha 13:02:34 (the flavor of blood!!!) 13:02:36 i bet they know all about the divided-by-5 vamp weapon nutrition 13:02:39 and how important it is 13:02:46 need to make sure blood sense uses the right metric etc 13:02:56 elliptic: imo stop working on this whole controversial aut scoring thing and work on something everyone will love without reservation 13:03:02 something 13:03:05 orthogonal 13:03:21 ;) 13:03:40 fr: exploding arrows (let out your inner Rambo) 13:03:52 hie thee to the off-brand ammo shop! 13:03:59 PleasingFungus: well if I were coding something right now it would probably indeed be that! since my view about aut scoring is "wait and see whether people decide to change anything about haste spell" 13:04:08 o 13:04:10 cool 13:04:28 what's blood sense? 13:04:29 I tried to do squarelos a bit back but the old branch was very rotted and I don't know the relevant code at all. 13:04:38 Lasty: like web sense, but for blood 13:04:43 except more complicated 13:04:44 basil was talking about working on coding squarelos too 13:04:48 not sure how far he got 13:04:51 PleasingFungus: enemy vampires only, I hope . . . 13:05:07 at one point sharks had it. and possibly dogs? 13:05:12 <|amethyst> one thing I was thinking about squarelos 13:05:14 I forget if the player ever had it 13:05:20 wow, sharks 13:05:25 <|amethyst> probably los would be reduced to 7 squares 13:05:35 i think that was how it was last time? 13:05:38 PleasingFungus: can you actually get exploding arrows? I was looking at makeitem.cc, the method is_missile_brand_ok seems to indicate that exploding is only for bullets and tomahawks. 13:05:38 <|amethyst> which means it would be possible to have a negative-effect "increase LOS radius" 13:05:54 oh yeah, sharks 13:06:08 <|amethyst> right now it's not possible because LOS wouldn't all fit on the screen at 80x24 with a large message area 13:06:16 !vault nicolae_offbrand_ammo 13:06:16 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/shops.des#l369 13:06:17 |amethyst: which would be great because 90% of players would think it was a bonus 13:06:20 agolden: ^ 13:06:31 oh, that reminds me 13:06:37 -!- memories has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:06:47 <|amethyst> Lasty: well, spell LOS would probably be reduced, so maybe only ranged combat users would think it's a bonus 13:06:55 <|amethyst> and lightning bolters 13:07:24 <|amethyst> s/spell LOS/spell ranges/ 13:07:56 PleasingFungus: sweet 13:08:43 |amethyst: my experience is that most newer players posting in Tavern/##crawl think that more LOS would be a net positive. 13:09:16 Sniper could raise LOS 13:09:30 right now I have a strong suspicion that Sniper is bad 13:09:45 at least compared to a non-artefact xxxbow 13:09:50 Reduce sniper's delay but make it increase the LOS? Is it possible to increase LOS anyway? 13:09:59 I know it can be decreased with mutations/darkness 13:10:21 it's not currently possible, which is what we're discussing; scroll up a little. 13:10:34 <|amethyst> it is not possible because of what I said (we assume LOS will fit on the screen) 13:10:36 Ah, sorry. 13:10:39 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-678-g1982f0b: Remove some on-brand ammo from the off-brand shop 10(52 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1982f0b51e7a 13:10:49 PleasingFungus: i dont know about skilled, but unskilled sniper is pretty ridiculous 13:11:04 ??sniper 13:11:04 sniper[1/1]: The +15 heavy crossbow "Sniper" {velocity, SInv}. A triple crossbow with 27 base delay. 13:11:08 PleasingFungus: FR: XXXBow. Fires tentacled monstrosities. 13:11:47 simmarine: the base delay cost...! 13:12:39 <|amethyst> I was suggesting last night that if we do something like reduce/remove ammo scarcity, ranged could be given an inherently high delay to make it less like "melee anything on-screen" 13:12:50 <|amethyst> like xbows now 13:12:52 Re'lly quaff I - 4 potions o' degeneration {!q!d}? 13:12:53 _Why would ye want ta do tha? 13:13:03 how would "to amuse xom" sound? no? okay then. 13:13:09 Subject: [PATCH 01/30] 13:13:34 I was wondering how 9647 was 287kb 13:13:48 |amethyst: I was thinking of doing something similar in my Current Long-term Vision for ranged combat 13:13:51 |amethyst: I saw the suggestion 13:15:14 hm, this person knows enough about git to make regular commits, but doesn't know about rebasing to make a tidy branch for others to use 13:15:58 which is adding a equip slot for launchers, dramatically lowering ammo availability, removing randart/evasion launchers (or at least most launcher randart properties), and assume that all characters will have a launcher equipped, tho training is needed to get the best out of it 13:16:00 back, re:Invocations: years ago I wondered whether each (Invoc using) their own Inv skillgod should have their own 13:16:26 "I can hold my own coat while I kill you!" <- cute 13:16:52 Zin: Preaching; Qaz: Elemental Fury; Ely: Healing . . . 13:17:13 <|amethyst> dpeg: I'm pretty sure that is neither German nor English word order :) 13:17:41 oh god, they accidentally changed the indentation of the entirety of spl-data.h 13:18:45 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: git am --ignore-whitespace might help 13:18:51 <|amethyst> hm 13:18:52 neat 13:18:55 I figure invocations is like giving oral, it is not who you give it to, but rather how you give it. 13:18:55 <|amethyst> no, that's just for context 13:19:10 Now where's that trophy for worst comparison of the century. 13:19:33 <|amethyst> you'd probably still have to manually undo those changes (or apply only the other changes), but that might help further patches in the series continue to apply 13:19:41 |amethyst: PleasingFungus: in github you can also view patches ignoring whitespace by appending teh query paramter ?w=1 to the commit URL. 13:19:54 s/teh/the 13:19:59 hm, what's the 3-way param 13:20:02 for applying patches 13:20:04 <|amethyst> -3 13:20:13 why did invis need a nerf; isn't early game access to it already limited and/or unreliable? 13:20:19 nice cyclops smiley, |amethyst 13:21:32 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:21:33 !lg * fohu fedhas 13:21:33 27. Brdr the Slayer (L27 FoHu of Fedhas), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-04-14 02:02:39, with 1673676 points after 67362 turns and 4:57:01. 13:21:42 !lg * fohu fedhas -2 13:21:43 26/27. neil the Spear-Bearer (L9 FoHu of Fedhas), slain by a killer bee on D:7 on 2015-03-14 14:42:12, with 1862 points after 5507 turns and 0:14:36. 13:21:52 !lg * fohu fedhas won -2 13:21:53 Index out of range: -2 13:22:12 heh, only FoHu^Fed win on Always Mulch 13:22:24 obviously Always Mulch is Op 13:22:42 Fed is quite the challenge god, it's true 13:22:50 http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/experimentals/0.16/branches/mulch_ado_about_nothing.html 13:22:52 agh, this is impossible 13:22:58 only always-mulch win so far 13:23:05 <|amethyst> ??impossible 13:23:05 I don't have a page labeled impossible in my learndb. 13:23:11 <|amethyst> ?/literally impossible 13:23:11 Matching entries (1): devteam[5]: sadly that bug is literally impossible to fix by which i mean i tried like once and then gave up 13:23:15 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:23:16 my motto 13:23:35 anyway I think this monster might be an interesting design? but this is the messiest patch I've ever seen 13:23:39 |amethyst: oh, I see... trouble with my irssi (I mostly don't see what I type). 13:25:29 Alright, Iconoclast works now I think 13:25:35 http://i.imgur.com/7Kxu06o.png 13:25:59 hm. is there some simple way to split this patch into 30 different files that I can apply separately? 13:26:05 trying to do all 30 at once is impossible.. 13:27:38 floatRand: Does it give you pennace to every single god at once? 13:27:44 (and what base type is it) 13:27:54 It is +12 robe 13:28:23 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:56 It actually only gives penance to your current god ( fixes penance counter at 10 ) and blocks the retribution from that source, but has one-chance-in-750 to cast random divine retribution on you. 13:30:16 so effectively permanent pennace from every god 13:31:03 As long as worn, yeah. 13:31:20 After that you need to just deal with 10 penance from your primary god. 13:31:37 http://i.imgur.com/XHxeIyh.png 13:33:43 -!- agolden has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:32 floatRand: does it have any drawback if you are without a god? 13:37:59 ah nvm, misread 13:38:15 The retribution is independent of your religion, you still get pummeled. But you won't get penance to god you don't have. 13:39:09 Demigods can't wear it. 13:40:16 Hi, I am following docs/levels/advanced.txt to define a new portal vault. I have added PORTAL_ENTER_OUBLIETTE (same with EXIT) in feature-data.h and the { BRANCH_OUBLIETTE, ... } in branch-data.h. But compilation fails with 'BRANCH_OUBLIETTE was not declared in this scope.' 13:40:27 If anyone knows what's missing, please tell me. 13:40:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: have to add it in enum.h before NUM_BRANCHES 13:40:56 thx 13:41:27 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:30 will add that to the documentation! 13:41:40 ok, for posterity, if you ever want to split a git patch into its components, DO NOT use "splitpatch.rb". 13:41:48 lol 13:41:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: I'm sure there's more than that 13:41:56 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:03 it splits it by-commit *and* by-file, which is ridiculous!!! 13:42:12 PleasingFungus: I hope you found that on some verious dubious looking stackedoverflow answer or something 13:42:20 someone's website 13:42:23 did the site you downloaded it from have animated gifs? 13:42:26 |amethyst: indeed, there is 13:42:27 <|amethyst> dpeg: e.g. DNGN_ENTER_OUBLIETTE before NUM_FEATURES 13:42:30 I wish... 13:42:32 <|amethyst> (and _EXIT_) 13:42:40 http://sprunge.us/LMKH anyway here's a thing I wrote just now 13:42:44 that does the trick 13:42:48 <|amethyst> I *think* order doesn't matter anymore? 13:42:54 <|amethyst> now that we have feature-data.h 13:43:09 <|amethyst> I mean, new things have to come last still 13:43:14 PleasingFungus: can't you just apply the patch and then format a patch, splitting it one file per commit? 13:43:20 <|amethyst> but I think the _ENTER_ don't have to be contiguous 13:43:27 gammafunk: I cannot apply the patch 13:43:30 ok 13:43:30 that's why I'm splitting it 13:43:45 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: could apply it to the version it was based on 13:43:45 so that I can handle things one by one rather than having am --abort leave me at square one 13:43:53 <|amethyst> and rebase it from there 13:43:57 not an awful thought 13:44:01 <|amethyst> that might or might not be simpler than -3 13:44:12 yeah, what |amethyst said, but I can also see how splitting the patch file itself is useful 13:44:21 -3 didn't work 13:44:25 |amethyst: do I have to increase NUM_BRANCHES somewhere manually? 13:44:27 it failed to find the blobs and died 13:44:27 since it's an mbox, there should even be a tool to do it? 13:44:39 there are tools for ubuntu and redhat 13:44:42 but not os x, that I could find 13:44:48 typical Slime story: failed to find the blobs and died 13:45:21 PleasingFungus: yeah, you don't use macports I assume? 13:45:28 I wonder how good fink is these days 13:45:33 -!- Naeroon_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:45:49 I hear it's bad but who knows 13:46:05 macports can be annoying anyhow, in that it can take so long to compile so many things 13:46:07 http://sprunge.us/MOMA updated version of my utility with better patch numbering (leading 0s) 13:46:10 if you don't have it set up 13:49:27 In member function 'const Branch* branch_iterator::operator*() const': \\ AppHdr.h:36:30: error: static assertion failed: ARRAYSZ(branch_order) == NUM_BRANCHES 13:49:27 daughter demands playtime, will have a look at moon base commit later on 13:49:27 thx for help! 13:49:27 moon base commit! 13:49:27 hm, this tool doesn't work 13:49:27 dpeg: imo tell her the story of the moon troll, maybe she'll make some cool crayon art (depending on her age) or something 13:49:27 the story of the moon troll... 13:49:27 <|amethyst> dpeg: that says you need to change the branch_order structure in branch.cc too 13:49:27 I have five pages of lore 13:49:40 PleasingFungus: oh, did you see pubby's tile? 13:49:42 <|amethyst> bring back fannar and wiglaf lore! 13:49:44 <|amethyst> more lore! 13:49:45 it's pretty funny 13:49:47 gammafunk: no! 13:49:51 let me show you 13:49:57 <|amethyst> monster descriptions are scrollable now! 13:50:03 |amethyst: did you see the bug, btw? 13:50:09 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: ? 13:50:13 !bug 9649 13:50:13 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9649 13:50:22 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:50:33 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: yeah, trying to remember what the issue with space was 13:50:33 PleasingFungus: it has eyeteeth! 13:50:39 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: was that something to do with ?/m support 13:50:42 PleasingFungus: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=6636&type=bug 13:50:44 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:50:54 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: and returning to the search results vs to the game? 13:51:15 'space' switches between precise matches and lists 13:51:30 e.g. ?/morc will give you the monster 'orc'; hitting space will switch to viewing all orcs 13:51:33 to listing, rather 13:51:39 gammafunk: oh that tile 13:51:53 I saw the earlier draft, this one is much more... distinctive 13:52:40 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:12 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, could make that happen only when scrolled to the end... but that's kind of like this scroller always using easy_exit_menu regardless of your setting for that option 13:54:38 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:45 http://sprunge.us/KKWe fixed splitpatch 13:55:21 |amethyst: might be better to switch to a different key 13:55:22 not sure which tho 13:55:51 <|amethyst> slash? 13:56:09 <|amethyst> axl? 13:58:48 I'll whip a patch of this item if someone wants to try it out. 13:58:54 ok 13:59:01 I'm pretty sure this patch is actually missing intermediate commits 13:59:08 how do you even do that... 13:59:17 git rebase -i :) 13:59:19 there are "reverts" of code that was never added in the commits here 13:59:37 the i stands for involuntary 13:59:57 I think I'm giving up 14:03:20 -!- quik has quit [Quit: "When I use a word", Humpty Dumpty said, in a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less". Lewis Carroll, "Through The Looking Glass".] 14:04:34 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:04:42 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:43 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:36 -!- doubt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:38 http://puu.sh/hispH/229d535863.patch 14:05:48 Alright, there it is. 14:08:03 Starting from now, every time I kill a hesu in vaults:1-4, I want someone to assign me a not-overly-difficult bug to fix 14:09:47 !lm . hesu br.enter=vaults / lg:br=vaults lg:lvl<5 14:09:48 9/32 milestones for gammafunk (hesu br.enter=vaults): N=9/32 (28.12%) 14:09:54 that's just way too high 14:10:01 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:11:01 !lm devteamnp char!=HESu|HEIE|DESu|DEIE|MiBe br.enter=vaults s=name / lg:br=vaults lg:lvl<5 14:11:13 234/2835 milestones for devteamnp (char!=HESu|HEIE|DESu|DEIE|MiBe br.enter=vaults): 61/860x 78291 [7.09%], 21/211x MarvinPA [9.95%], 21/87x wheals [24.14%], 19/99x sorear [19.19%], 13/102x pointless [12.75%], 13/112x SGrunt [11.61%], 11/80x dpeg [13.75%], 10/98x KiloByte [10.20%], 9/111x Lasty [8.11%], 8/103x itsmu [7.77%], 7/118x rob [5.93%], 4/17x Neil [23.53%], 4/102x Medar [3.92%], 4/74x evilm... 14:11:23 !lm devteamnp char!=HESu|HEIE|DESu|DEIE|MiBe br.enter=vaults s=name / lg:br=vaults lg:lvl<5 o=% 14:11:31 234/2835 milestones for devteamnp (char!=HESu|HEIE|DESu|DEIE|MiBe br.enter=vaults): 1/1x SamB [100.00%], 1/4x felirx [25.00%], 21/87x wheals [24.14%], 4/17x Neil [23.53%], 19/99x sorear [19.19%], 1/7x mumra [14.29%], 11/80x dpeg [13.75%], 13/102x pointless [12.75%], 3/24x ontoclasm [12.50%], 3/25x bookofjude [12.00%], 4/34x bh [11.76%], 13/112x SGrunt [11.61%], 10/98x KiloByte [10.20%], 21/211x Ma... 14:15:32 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:16:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:21 hmm also it seems like it's never possible for vampires to drain mutagenic corpses? 14:21:27 (but there is code to handle that) 14:23:17 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:18 The build was broken. (master - 1982f0b #2324 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/59050630 14:23:18 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 14:23:58 The 'lua/src' directory is missing. Have you run 'git submodule update --init'? 14:24:42 er 14:24:48 does it not link to the commit on the travis page? 14:24:53 oh there it is 14:25:03 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:25:30 doy: any clue why that failing build would think that the lua submodule is missing? 14:28:05 <|amethyst> well, it probably is 14:28:20 <|amethyst> but that build should have lua libraries installed 14:28:41 <|amethyst> ah 14:28:53 <|amethyst> "Failed to run 'sudo apt-get install gdb liblua5.1-0-dev..." 14:29:06 <|amethyst> click on the grey "install" button next to perl .travis/deps.pl 14:29:11 <|amethyst> to see the log 14:29:24 <|amethyst> "unable to locate package libsdl2-dev" 14:30:13 some problem with their local repo then? 14:30:20 <|amethyst> oh 14:30:32 <|amethyst> I guess the reason it didn't fail earlier may be 14:30:36 <|amethyst> exit($ret); 14:30:44 <|amethyst> but $ret is 25600 14:30:47 <|amethyst> which is 0 mod 256 14:31:24 exit only allows 256 values? 14:31:40 -!- Spatzist has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:31:42 but I guess the real question would be where did that value come from 14:32:18 <|amethyst> apt get exited with 100 14:32:21 <|amethyst> s/apt get/apt-get/ 14:32:46 <|amethyst> and system() returns (exit status << 8) | signal 14:34:12 <|amethyst> maybe just exit $ret ? 1 : 0; 14:34:36 <|amethyst> err 14:34:56 <|amethyst> exit($ret ? 1 : 0); 14:34:59 <|amethyst> silly perl 14:37:26 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:49 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:43:50 gammafunk: if you feel like it, send me your five pages. I'd love to read them. 14:46:21 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:49 changes branch.cc too, still have a compilation error :( 14:47:08 mon-pick.cc, this is still about NUM_BRANCHES... 14:47:44 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-679-geef6664: Return a correct exit status from .travis/deps.pl. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eef66640b55a 14:47:56 Alright, fixed a bug once someone told me that you could technically use the robe to negate chunks of penance when leaving gods. Now it sets penance to 25 if it is any lower than it. 14:47:59 these are all containing # define COMPILE_CHECK it seems 14:48:28 lol 14:48:33 <|amethyst> dpeg: neet to add an entry to the end of population, population_zombie, population_water, population_lava in mon-pick.data.h 14:49:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: (as well as probably adding new pop_entry arrays in the same file for those to reference 14:49:56 !lg . x=dam,mhp 14:49:56 2866. [dam=41;mhp=41] gammafunk the Caller (L7 HESu of Sif Muna), killed by a distortion unwield in the Temple (circular_temple_12) on 2015-04-18 19:48:19, with 643 points after 3232 turns and 0:24:37. 14:50:01 good luck there 14:50:17 I guess it is something like 1d50 14:50:19 Wait, you can use invocations under penance? 14:52:04 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-680-g67a59e2: Block minion-creation spells under Sac Love 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 37+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/67a59e2ad049 14:56:02 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:56:32 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:45 <|amethyst> Any russian speakers here? 14:57:13 -!- read has quit [Client Quit] 14:57:47 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 14:58:26 <|amethyst> If so, pull/7 could use a review 14:58:28 hm. is there a reason potion petition and triple draw have different interfaces? PP prints the choices like [a] - haste and curing; [b] - ..., where triple draw prints them without any []s 14:58:53 <|amethyst> probably no good reason other than that they were written by different people 15:00:17 -!- alefury has quit [] 15:01:25 |amethyst, pull/7 looks good to me 15:01:46 -!- read has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:30 <|amethyst> Zaba: thanks 15:03:23 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:34 |amethyst: Hi, should I change all 34 to 35 at the end of mon-pick-data.h? 15:03:38 -!- read has quit [Changing host] 15:03:38 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:08 FR: flammable webs 15:04:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:17 <|amethyst> dpeg: the == 34 ? 15:05:25 <|amethyst> dpeg: #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 ? 15:05:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: no, that's save-compatibility (34 is our current major version) 15:06:04 <|amethyst> dpeg: the stuff you add should be outside the #if..#endif though 15:06:20 <|amethyst> dpeg: both there, in enum.h, and similar places 15:06:21 -!- read has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:27 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:06:41 <|amethyst> dpeg: that way it won't be removed when we break save compat and change TAG_MAJOR_VERSION to 35 15:09:06 %git 5936984178d6489cc3dae7b6271bf0f7297b4552 15:09:06 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3361-g5936984: Move ?/ into new "lookup_help.cc" 10(4 months ago, 6 files, 922+ 878-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5936984178d6 15:09:07 -!- KiT_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:18:46 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 15:19:26 Alright, improved the functionality of the robes' penance effects if someone wants to have a look. http://puu.sh/hix5d/d6a18d137b.patch 15:20:27 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:21 |amethyst: I can read the alphabet and say things like "I don't speak Russian" 15:21:52 oh you got somebody already 15:21:56 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 15:22:13 well the only actual change in pull/7 was to turn a hyphen into an en-dash, right? 15:23:34 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:50 how do I query won games that don't pick up either gossamer or serpentine runes? 15:29:26 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: ##crawl-sequell might be able to help more (or maybe not, since most people there are also here--but at least there will be less scrollback to hide your question :) 15:29:44 well I'm going to see sequell's help commands first 15:29:58 <|amethyst> there's not a straightforward way that I can think of 15:33:41 CanOfWorms: you could get approximately what you want with some urune conditionns 15:34:07 if you exclude early slime and abyssal runes, since I assume your question is about a typical 3-rune game 15:34:31 or at least one where the usual runes are obtained for the first two 15:34:39 yeah I want to get some data on won games that don't pick up the poison branch rune 15:35:16 or perhaps that don't visit snake/spider 15:35:40 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:55 !lm * urune=0|1 rune br!=snake|spider won s=noun 15:36:04 34268 milestones for * (urune=0|1 rune br!=snake|spider won): 10664x decaying, 5069x silver, 5014x barnacled, 2460x slimy, 2269x demonic, 1327x abyssal, 1253x golden, 1168x iron, 1000x bone, 938x icy, 932x obsidian, 556x magical, 546x dark, 538x fiery, 534x glowing 15:36:37 demonic... 15:36:48 !lm * urune=0|1 rune br=shoals|swamp won 15:36:51 15697. [2015-04-18 18:47:41] tekoppen the Severer (L17 DDFi of Makhleb) found a decaying rune of Zot on turn 32379. (Swamp:5) 15:36:51 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: tournament banners? 15:37:03 maybe 15:38:10 03noxdominus02 07* 0.17-a0-667-gd4fd13b: Update species.txt 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4fd13b5acff 15:38:10 03noxdominus02 07* 0.17-a0-668-g8da3632: Update species.txt 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8da3632ba0e9 15:38:10 03noxdominus02 07* 0.17-a0-669-g660f2cc: Update species.txt 10(22 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/660f2cc9570d 15:38:10 03noxdominus02 07* 0.17-a0-670-g49ed23c: Update species.txt 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/49ed23cd4f37 15:38:10 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-685-gc02861b: Merge pull request #7 from noxdominus/patch-1 10(7 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c02861bc248e 15:38:13 <|amethyst> oh crap 15:38:23 <|amethyst> just a sec 15:38:26 <|amethyst> no one pull for a sec 15:38:39 ! 15:38:50 anyway 15:38:57 time to make a crown... of ETERNAL TORMENT 15:39:00 *thundercrack* 15:39:21 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:28 <|amethyst> okay 15:39:37 <|amethyst> pushed that to gitorious :) 15:40:00 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:40:00 <|amethyst> I was not thinking at all and clicked on the automatic merge 15:40:05 haha 15:40:13 |amethyst declares his own flag day! 15:40:20 Oh, you are gonna make tile for it? 15:40:56 -!- read has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:02 |amethyst: this "click on something and a commit happens" is kind of a new problem we have now, I guess 15:41:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: well, to be fair, you have to click on two things in a row 15:41:22 that's good, at least 15:41:32 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:28 "I hit commit when I meant to hit reject", the new github insult (inspired by Tavern) 15:43:08 <|amethyst> %git 3259975 15:43:08 07|amethyst02 * 0.13-a0-1205-g3259975: Merge branch 'lava_djinn' into master 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3259975a78f2 15:43:12 <|amethyst> that shall be my excuse 15:43:38 heh, never realized the branch was named lava djinn 15:43:39 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:43:48 <|amethyst> there were two branches 15:43:54 <|amethyst> lava_djinn was the integration branch 15:44:05 i hope the other was frost_djinn! 15:44:10 <|amethyst> :P 15:44:18 or I guess, slush_djinn? 15:44:24 not really an ice equivalent to lava 15:44:28 <|amethyst> %git bad48d64 15:44:29 07kilobyte02 * 0.13-a0-1180-gbad48d6: Merge branch 'lava_orcs' into lava_djinn 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bad48d64c2a3 15:44:33 haha 15:44:41 that actually does make sense 15:44:50 lava_djinn_fire_orcs 15:45:31 tonic djinn... 15:45:48 <|amethyst> grotesk was added about the same time 15:45:59 <|amethyst> and I kind of wonder if we should go back to that name 15:46:08 man, we missed out on a grotesk_lava_djinn branch 15:46:15 <|amethyst> to at least reduce the complaints about how it's not exactly like monster gargoyle 15:46:25 yeah, if only I liked the name more 15:46:37 something kind of scary and generic that didn't sound so pretensious 15:46:39 would be ok 15:46:53 *pretentious 15:47:02 |amethyst: wouldn't it be easier to change monster gargoyle 15:47:51 aren't the complaints basically around monster gr being non-living but the player partially so? 15:47:54 @??gargoyle 15:47:54 gargoyle (159) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 20-35 | AC/EV: 18/6 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, fly | Res: 06magic(40), 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 415 | Sp: stone arrow (3d12) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 15:48:01 <|amethyst> elliptic: well, it is a weird natural/unliving hybrid so that would probably be a fair amount of code 15:48:02 i think monster gargoyles were intentionally made to be not similar to player gargoyles werent they 15:48:04 gammafunk: doing something about that is on my to-do list 15:48:13 wait, about what Lasty! 15:48:37 |amethyst: or we could change player gargoyles to not be a weird hybrid 15:49:01 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49:23 gammafunk: the livingness disparity 15:50:11 I can imagine things like, remove any torment immunity, but I'm not sure what other changes would be reasonable 15:50:22 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:50:27 would anything actually be wrong if we just made monster gargoyles normal holiness 15:50:37 not really! 15:50:45 <|amethyst> perhaps not 15:50:51 <|amethyst> probably remove the yred thing? 15:50:53 torment is basically the only thing I can think of and monster gargoyles do not get tormented very often :P 15:50:57 |amethyst: no! 15:51:07 !hs * grdk 15:51:08 13. gammafunk the Petrodigitator (L27 GrDK of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-06-02 14:19:32, with 2159344 points after 139579 turns and 18:23:15. 15:51:11 I will veto 15:51:13 <|amethyst> :P 15:51:17 oh but 15:51:19 dk is gone 15:51:20 <|amethyst> "natural but artificial" is ... 15:51:20 hrm, ok 15:51:25 complaint retracted 15:51:25 <|amethyst> heh 15:52:22 yeah, gargoyles are then just "statues that were turned living" 15:52:26 seems thematic enough for me 15:52:36 -!- iafm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:56 so now they're partially artifical and partially living. unless they're monsters in which case they aren't living at all! 15:52:59 we already have them not on 8, which is good 15:53:09 huh? 15:53:22 no we'd make monsters and players fully living 15:53:40 although for players I guess it's maybe less clear what to change in terms of resists 15:53:50 I mean I'd be fine if the lost partial torment immunity 15:55:02 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:57 do you have to let yred accept them then? 15:57:02 oh, neil already said that 15:57:08 yeah I think that would happen 15:57:20 but I'm also not exactly sure how we'd change player Gr 15:57:50 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:40 perhaps the torment situation doesn't have to change, but if we think of the player species as fully living, it seems maybe a bit odd to share this facet with statue form 15:59:02 i don't think it's that pressing of a problem 15:59:29 it's Ideologically Inconsistent 15:59:30 although it's also not something that i would personally bitch about if it changed 15:59:39 I don't know about you, but *I* live in a garden of pure ideology 16:00:02 ensconced away, in his Fungal Tower! 16:00:03 wow, what does that look like? 16:00:38 also, do you keep them totally immune to poison if they're living? 16:00:56 that's an aspect that would probably have to change 16:01:14 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:25 i think it's one of the more appealing aspects to Gr 16:01:31 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:35 but then, i'm a pretty bad player 16:01:38 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:20 <|amethyst> poison-immune natural creatures aren't impossible, just unprecedented 16:02:27 but then you guys have been pretty good at taking my suggestions with a grain of salt 16:03:02 the poison immunity on gr always annoyed me tbh 16:03:03 -!- read has quit [Quit: bye.] 16:03:08 we kind of take everyone's suggestions with a grain of salt, including our own suggestions 16:03:10 like i totally talked you and draco into fixiing hexes/invis 16:03:17 don't worry, you're not special in that regard 16:03:19 "you" being neil 16:03:38 ahh, for a moment I was worried someone was confusing me for the late great hangedman again 16:03:41 gammafunk, Lehudib's Moon Base was really fun, that's a great vault and good job 16:03:43 and i don't worry about that gammafunk 16:03:52 Brannock_: thx, I take it you didn't die? 16:03:56 nope! 16:03:59 gj 16:04:01 i just want the game to be better 16:04:07 oh, you sent him to the moon? 16:04:17 ProzacElf: I think we all do! except for the nefarious Crawl Saboteur 16:04:19 who doesn't coutn 16:04:21 even if it makes me suck at it more =P 16:04:26 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:26 lol 16:04:31 (one person in this room is a traitor...!) 16:04:38 =O 16:04:43 heh 16:05:25 j'accuse, pleasingfungus 16:05:39 man, i want to watch the new star wars movie 16:05:39 * CanOfWorms points finger dramatically 16:05:44 <|amethyst> I want the game to be worse so people won't play it and we won't have so many bug reports 16:05:45 and i think it's going to suck 16:06:04 dammit neil, i haven't made a bug report in like 6 months 16:06:18 oh, interesting. cheites also recover from disease more slowly 16:06:22 while walking 16:06:46 -!- mumra has left ##crawl-dev 16:06:49 disease still happens? i thought you guys got rid of that? 16:07:08 zyme sickness? 16:07:19 oh right. zymes 16:07:24 I can't remember if it's anywhere but zymes 16:07:27 fucking zymes. 16:07:29 um 16:07:31 lol 16:07:35 |amethyst: I'm going to push this in a bit, but let me know if you see anything amiss: http://sprunge.us/fQcP?diff 16:07:36 no, needles of sickness were removed 16:07:41 i hate them, but they're a good monster 16:07:47 I've never added a source file before, but it seems to compile and rune fine 16:08:25 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:09:47 -!- hhkb has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:35 -!- AndroUser has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:43 looks good, though who knows about msvc 16:10:53 hm 16:11:01 actually you need to add the .h to the msvc files too 16:11:02 I think 16:11:04 didn't +1 rings get removed? 16:11:23 oh only for stats. nevermind 16:11:25 I think +1 stat rings 16:11:26 ya 16:11:40 lol 16:11:47 i thought i'd just been lucky 16:11:54 nice to know though 16:12:35 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, you'll need the headers in the msvc project (and the tag is different but similar looking so be careful) 16:12:47 oh, right 16:12:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: just look for dbg-scan.h there and copy that 16:14:01 http://puu.sh/hiAPu/3d79042d83.png 16:14:05 *thundercrack* 16:14:24 CanOfWorms: even looking at it is torment! ha ha ha ha ah aha ha ha 16:14:27 just kidding :) 16:14:37 so does the thing give torment resistance or immunity 16:14:37 Man, that's neat. Way better than my shoddy thing. 16:14:49 immunity 16:15:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: btw, I wonder if we can make objstat etc a separate #define from DEBUG_DIAGNOSTICS (but enabled by it) 16:15:08 someone should make a challenge game where you start as a felid with frail 3 and this thing 16:15:21 felids with hats...? 16:15:26 yes 16:15:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: so that you can make a non-debug build that can run objstat 16:15:43 |amethyst: well objstat does depend on the mapstat code 16:15:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: right, mapstat too 16:15:51 so you'd have to compile both 16:15:59 <|amethyst> gammafunk: because I'd probably make that my default build options 16:16:06 but that certainly seems reasonable 16:16:15 <|amethyst> s/that/those/ 16:16:40 <|amethyst> anyway, I must be going, have to judge a hackathon 16:17:29 :) 16:17:31 have fun! 16:17:38 I am not able to set up my portal vault. 16:17:46 dpeg: what's up now? 16:17:46 I should have done this back when it was easy :( 16:17:57 I just don't know where to put my stuff. 16:18:07 Sometimes it goes to the end of lists, and sometimes not. 16:18:10 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: enum etc ordering 16:18:38 On top of that I am typing on emacs where C-Space doesn't work (but I finally got around that by M-x set-mark-command) 16:18:54 dpeg: imo toss your stuff up on a branch; I'm very busy today but I can have a look tomorrow (or someone else can) 16:19:00 C-Space? 16:19:10 ah, mark 16:19:11 Right now I am in mon-pick-data.h: where should pop_oubliette go? I have no clue! 16:19:22 yeah not having mark would be a problem 16:19:30 dpeg: oh it can go anywhere in that file 16:19:32 I don't think it matters where it goes in there 16:19:34 ya 16:19:36 After pop_ossuary (where I had it before), ... ah 16:19:51 what's important is that pop_oubliette is defined, not the order 16:20:00 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:01 The build was fixed. (master - 67a59e2 #2326 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/59057975 16:20:01 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 16:20:17 <|amethyst> the order there matters only inside the population_* arrays 16:20:25 <|amethyst> (going for real now!) 16:20:26 !tell ontoclasm eternal torment tiles: http://i.imgur.com/NLWN6QJ.png http://i.imgur.com/lkNIKyP.png 16:20:27 CanOfWorms: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 16:20:32 and then always the end, like in enum.h, right? 16:20:41 This is like black magic to me :) 16:20:53 <|amethyst> yes 16:21:02 (really going for real actually this time) 16:21:38 does corpse.special do anything? and/or is it the same thing as corpse.freshness? 16:22:17 MarvinPA: yes 16:22:19 to both 16:22:23 dpeg: for the most part you can think of order mattering when something is definited *within* a data structure, which pop_oubliette isn't, it's just defined in the file 16:22:27 !source externs.h:543 16:22:27 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/externs.h#l543 16:22:42 There is something strange about order in enum.h: DNGN_ENTERS have volcano, wizlab, (and now) oubliette, but EXITS have volcano, wizlab, labyrinth, (and now) oubliette -- is that okay? 16:22:49 dpeg: unless the file itself just defines one big data structure (which some files do), the order won't matter within the file 16:23:02 gammafunk: yes, I understand, I am adding an entry to an array and the new one should be late. 16:23:05 last 16:23:18 yeah, that's within the structure so order matters 16:23:26 I've been adding my stuff always after Ossuary (because that makes sense thematically) but didn't think ahead. 16:23:43 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:52 pop_oubliette? 16:27:06 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.1/20150402191859]] 16:27:06 lol, that just sounds hilarious 16:27:06 -!- ProzacElf was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [ProzacElf] 16:27:06 i think that might have been slightly overzealous 16:27:06 I am mad enough. 16:27:06 the name is obviously a placeholder 16:27:06 dpeg: yeah, it looks like you'll need to define both an ENTER and an EXIT 16:27:06 since this is essentially a new branch 16:27:06 i read that as just finding it an amusing combination of words 16:27:06 gammafunk: oh, I did! My point is that the two lists are not synchrone: EXIT has labyrinth at the end but ENTER doesn't!? 16:27:06 dpeg: you mean in terms of order? probably they just happened to be defined all together and the ordering is not as sensible as it could be 16:27:06 hmm it looks like something for corpse freshness has been refactored such that vampires can never get their important 1hp of healing from draining a corpse 16:27:06 so that the lab enter and exit defs are not where you'd think, based upon those for other branches 16:27:07 feature-data.h is also sensitive to order, eh? 16:27:08 because corpse freshness is never > 150 16:27:09 dpeg: but your definitions will go at the end 16:27:13 very tragic 16:27:29 gammafunk: exactly, that's what I did 16:27:33 dpeg: I think it's a problem if you change the order, yeah, since these data are saved 16:28:19 ideally we'd have code to reorder them when we next break save compat 16:28:30 DNGN_BADLY_SEALED_DOOR...interesting 16:28:35 some kind of warden thing? 16:28:51 it's TAG_MAJORED anyhow 16:36:15 Anyway, this was the progress on Iconoclast Robe ( ridiculously good stats, resists smite, puts you into penance as long as you wear it, random god wraths ): http://puu.sh/hix5d/d6a18d137b.patch 16:36:32 Now to actually work on my roguelike that I have so neglected. 16:40:51 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:36 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:27 -!- Icadius has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 16:47:39 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-686-g0199545: Don't give vampires extra healing from vampiric weapons 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 6+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/01995454221c 16:47:39 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-687-g3c5a570: Let vampires drink from anything with blood 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 20+ 64-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3c5a5708ef4e 16:47:39 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-688-g21a41e9: Remove Vp's (non-functional) chance to heal 1hp on draining a corpse 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/21a41e90cdf4 16:48:23 oh finally, no more goo disappointment? 16:48:37 I guess there are still inedible chunks for that 16:48:42 what's goo disappointment 16:48:58 as a vp, get a corpse, but it's full of disgusting green goo 16:49:03 esp with kiku! 16:49:19 and you can't drink goo 16:49:20 oh, no that still happens, those corpses don't have blood 16:49:35 oh, curses 16:49:43 the change is that you can drink from things with inedible chunks (as long as they have blood) 16:49:58 oh ok 16:50:40 the toxicness/mutagenicness is just in the meat, not the blood! thats a definite real fact 16:50:49 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:53 realism?? 16:50:53 whacking KILLER FUCKING BEES with a halberd and throwing javelins at them 16:50:58 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:51:34 also i wasn't sure whether vampires should keep their special-case message for wielding vampiric weapons but i guess it's a fun message, and they still have the bonus of being able to wield/unwield at will 16:53:29 -!- tali713 has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:53:55 maybe leech should get a fancy message to indicate that it's not normal vamp either 16:57:53 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:18 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:39 {SuperVampiric} 17:00:10 oh yeah that reminds me that SkillBoost is a super ugly inscription :( 17:00:24 +4 blade? 17:00:28 or whatever the boost is 17:00:55 that makes it look like slaying i think, not sure i can come up with anything especially better unfortunately 17:00:56 LBl+4 ? 17:01:14 it's both short and long blades 17:01:56 MarvinPA: yeah, it's a terrible desc, but I had a hard time thinking of better 17:01:59 Blades+? 17:02:05 I figured someone would replace it when they came up with one 17:02:48 Other things I rejected: {+Blades}, {Fence}, {Fencing} 17:03:02 evoke for blades 17:03:03 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:08 MarvinPA: right, rejected 17:03:33 that's what the + is on the right :v 17:03:34 blades+ is maybe not terrible?? but yeah it's tricky 17:03:38 I suppose the gauntlet inscription is short enough that it could add {LBl+4, SBl+4} and not suffer 17:04:08 possibly yeah 17:05:50 is it just dumb to ask for gauntlets/gloves that give a UC bonus? 17:06:01 So I'm working on giving zombies/skeletons a timeout similar to simulacra and spectres (DChannel). Each of them appears to set a timer with ->add_ench(mon_enchant(ENCH_FAKE_ABJURATION, 6)). Doing that for zombies/skeletons doesn't seem to make them actually time out tho . .. 17:06:17 ProzacElf: gauntlets of war do that :D 17:06:27 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:43 they do? wow i'm dumb 17:06:51 well, they give +5 slaying 17:07:06 that's less than claws 3!!!!!!!! 17:07:10 which boosts UC as much if not more than most combat 17:07:25 ...which prevent wearing gloves now that i think of it 17:07:31 yup 17:07:34 lol 17:08:04 i've only used gauntlets of war with lblades i think 17:08:19 anyone know why ENCH_FAKE_ABJURATION doesn't work for zombies/skeletons? 17:08:33 I sincerely don't know when/why it works at all 17:09:11 zombies/skeletons aren't summoned? 17:09:57 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-688-g21a41e9 (34) 17:11:30 ha, I am back at fighting against mon-pick (this is a minor success over here!) 17:11:32 -!- agolden has quit [Quit: agolden] 17:11:59 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:14 dpeg, always picking fights with monsters... 17:12:19 :) 17:12:33 * dpeg would rather pick his nose than a monster 17:12:43 hm. MarvinPA, what happened when vampires tried to drink from mutagenic corpses before? 17:12:51 they couldn't 17:12:53 ahh 17:13:09 (despite there being code to mutate them if they did) 17:13:11 imo let them <_< 17:13:20 ...I can't remember if vampires can mutate 17:13:23 or how that works 17:13:27 good time to propose !hallucination effect for crawl? 17:13:27 there's nothing here to drain! 17:13:27 they can 17:13:35 people love purple. 17:13:38 it used to depend on how thirsty they were in confusing ways 17:13:41 but now they can just always mutate fully 17:13:50 ok I vaguely remembered that change 17:14:07 I couldn't remember whether it changed them to "always can" or "always can't" 17:14:58 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:15:14 anyway would you be sad if I implemented purple-drinking for vp 17:15:33 I guess idk if vp drinking directly from corpses will be around that much longer... 17:16:23 as of 0.16 it was "always mutate" 17:16:24 i wouldn't mind, i briefly considered leaving it in but preferred just simplifying it more 17:16:26 so they'd bottle mutagenic corpses to !mutation? 17:16:29 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:34 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:41 it'd require adding back in a bunch of chunk type checks into multiple places 17:16:46 gammafunk: that would be a bonus? 17:16:53 they'd be unable to bottle mutagenic corpses i hope 17:17:09 PleasingFungus: what kind of strange fungal neurotoxins does your system produce?! 17:17:20 actually I thought about it for more than two seconds and it's dumb 17:17:25 ah well 17:17:43 thinking about ideas, always a mistake! 17:17:49 ya I should avoid that 17:21:22 implement, push, then sleep on it, actually think about it 24 hours later 17:21:22 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:22 and *compiling*... well, let's not even talk about that! 17:21:22 got to keep good old travis busy... 17:21:22 fun fact: the game tracks whether your last move was orthogonal or diagonal 17:21:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:22 PleasingFungus: are there any factors 1.4 nearby? 17:21:22 why does it keep track of that? 17:21:22 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:22:40 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:40 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 17:22:40 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 17:22:52 aka the 'arrow key gambit' 17:23:47 lol 17:24:00 I kinda want to make items that add brand to melee attacks. Gloves with random brands? 17:24:44 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:25:08 dpeg: i don't think hurry=yes does anything. HURRY=yes does, but it changes the generated code, not speed up the build process 17:25:17 aha, thx 17:26:33 Renounce Religion is invocation? 17:27:32 yup; gotta tell the god that you're not BFF any more 17:28:49 Eh, it is just conflicts with my silly thing that auto-fails invocations ( I though penance already denied god-abilities, but that doesn't seem to be the case ) 17:29:35 i thought renounce was always an invocation? 17:29:44 or at least an "ability" 17:29:55 It's an ability, but 'invocation' specifically. 17:30:02 ah 17:30:06 -!- aarujn has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:28 renounce should move to t, shout "F*** YOU $DEITY" :p 17:30:35 lol 17:30:38 Well, this works I suppose: if( invoc && player_equip_unrand(UNRAND_ICONOCLAST) && ability == ABIL_RENOUNCE_RELIGION ) failure = 100; 17:30:50 Oh wait, shit, it should be != 17:31:14 heh 17:31:28 YOU SHALL NOT RENOUNCE 17:31:34 Any thoughts on the Vestments of Iconoclast so far? 17:32:09 floatRand: I'd need to look at how the wrath/penance stuff was implemented; I have only a vague idea of how it works right now 17:32:10 nit: either of the Iconoclast, or of Iconoclasm... 17:32:12 sounds pretty game-defining 17:32:31 from a brief glance it looked like you'd take off the thing whenever resting 17:32:39 with rBanishment and rSmite I'm kind of seeing a pattern here 17:32:44 I can show you the patch, you should be able to pick out how it functions. 17:32:54 floatRand: do you want them to be good or just ok? 17:33:02 Interesting, at least. 17:33:23 because +5 evo would seem like a neat thing to do 17:33:35 along with whatever else 17:33:50 imo a +hugenumber robe is pretty good 17:34:22 Penance + random wraths from time to time are pretty huge offset though, since some wraths are rather deadly at early/mid game. 17:34:23 well, if you can't have a god +5 evo is a nice thing 17:34:34 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:40 unless i'm totally misinterpreting what this robe is about 17:34:45 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:34:46 Plus you can still keep spellcasting and have really robust robe. 17:34:48 isn't the wrath based on just time though 17:35:03 in which case it's terribly broken 17:35:06 Wait a sec, I'll show you the current bit of code how it functions 17:35:17 well, yeah, some wrath is much worse than others 17:35:19 why do you need to show code for that, it's a simple enough question 17:35:43 http://pastebin.com/3vM6rG2m 17:35:46 like gozag and beogh wrath is pretty livable even at relatively low level 17:36:07 nemelex wrath is also not that deadly 17:36:15 the gods hate short-blade users... 17:36:16 we tied wrath to xp gain specifically because tying it to aut leads to weird play 17:36:18 but I mean, who doesn't 17:36:41 oh, did wrath change? 17:36:53 back in like, 0.13? earlier? 17:36:55 The thing is that you can't wait out Iconoclast's wraths since they last as long as you wear it. Plus it always inflicts you penance with your current god. 17:37:10 right so whenever resting 17:37:14 I should take off the robe 17:37:27 well, gozag wrath always was just weak then i guess 17:37:39 because i don't think gozag was around in 0.13 17:37:52 -!- Nobuharu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:18 !lm * gozag 1 x=cv 17:38:23 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:28 1/65327. [2014-04-28 05:13:07] [cv=0.15-a] MarvinPA the Ruinous (L8 DDCj of Gozag) became a worshipper of Gozag on turn 6071. (Temple) 17:38:30 but trog and sif and a couple others have always been way worse than most of the other gods 17:38:37 good one, MPA 17:39:02 mm that was a great character 17:39:10 Here's the patch http://puu.sh/hiGfu/3d034c4c6d.patch 17:39:12 lol 17:39:22 i think it died immediately after that 17:39:45 also ash and gozag in that list don't do anything 17:39:50 nice singing sword 17:39:51 !lg deveamnp god=gozag s=name 17:39:52 No games for deveamnp (god=gozag). 17:39:56 !lg devteamnp god=gozag s=name 17:39:57 156 games for devteamnp (god=gozag): 64x dpeg, 25x MarvinPA, 22x Neil, 13x SGrunt, 7x Lasty, 6x 78291, 6x gammafunk, 5x wheals, 3x PleasingFungus, 3x Medar, 2x elliptic 17:39:59 (and there is probably a better way than just listing every god anyway) 17:40:31 also speaking of gozag does anyone have opinions on chequers's pull request 17:40:43 gold even for corpseless monsters? 17:40:45 does it pull gozag out of the game? 17:40:52 ha 17:40:56 MarvinPA: what is it? 17:40:57 gammafunk: that and not scaling potion petition's cost up 17:41:14 ah, so repeat use doesn't increase cost? 17:41:17 right 17:41:22 -!- jj__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:26 it might be too good, but I won't complain 17:41:28 !!is cbro down 17:41:28 I feel like gold for corpseless monsters is weird for theme reasons. I'd want to add some kind of text for it maybe? (not opposed to it mechanically) 17:41:29 2 minutes, 50 seconds since last activity (cbro) 17:41:38 i think it makes him more worth taking though 17:41:40 yeah, seems reasonable, I do recall that cost getting kind of onerous, the cost scaling 17:41:46 does chequers have an idea for how to deal with monsters dying over water? 17:41:53 evaporation effect! 17:41:55 as a player i almost never think i want gozag 17:42:01 yeah, I'd definitely give Gozag a try if potion petition's cost stays the same 17:42:14 but his wrath should be worse if you make the benefits better 17:42:28 PleasingFungus: i was thinking of making the corpseless thing just not apply to insubstantials, for ~~~realism~~~, but maybe that's not necessary 17:42:51 like, i can easily imagine how it works with other corpseless stuff (they just turn into gold) 17:42:51 dpeg: hrm, i guess you could randomly teleport the gold? 17:42:55 MarvinPA: he's a god, why does it matter? 17:43:12 MarvinPA: I have no idea how many/few monsters are insubstantial 17:43:26 gammafunk: yes, anything that helps players not get crazy about trying to kill monsters on land would help (even just putting the gold into player's purse) 17:43:27 but tbh I don't think it makes more or less sense than other corpseless monsters leaving gold 17:43:32 i mean, maybe it sounds dumb 17:43:34 oof, wisps, air elementals, fire elementals 17:43:36 me neither! i just know smoke demons, because they don't die to shatter and it's annoying 17:43:40 haha 17:43:44 isn't that just because they're fliers? 17:43:46 @??smoke demon 17:43:46 smoke demon (153) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 28-48 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Dam: 8, 5, 5 | 05demonic, 10doors, lev | Res: 06magic(60), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 427 | Sp: sticky flame range (3d4) [06!sil], steam ball (3d12) [06!sil], smiting (7-17) [06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: normal. 17:43:47 player ghosts, a bunch of other ghosts 17:43:55 I don't think any demons are 17:44:01 @??orb_of_fire 17:44:01 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 8519 | Sp: b.fire (3d40) [06!sil], fireball (3d43) [06!sil], malmutate [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: normal. 17:44:02 no, shatter hurts fliers (but damage is 1/3) 17:44:04 but i don't think anyone is gonna say "why did that guy leave a pile of gold when he won't leave a corpse?" 17:44:08 oh it doesn't show 17:44:09 ah, they are insubstantial 17:44:19 I'm so glad I changed shatter's description 17:44:23 even if no one reads descriptions 17:44:29 PleasingFungus: I did! 17:44:42 :) 17:44:53 but I also read the Nethack manual from start to finish 17:44:56 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:00 lol 17:45:07 dpeg: did you learn anything? 17:45:23 i did that and then decided i would never play nethack again 17:45:49 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:07 I guess putting the gold from flying enemies into the player invo might actually be best 17:46:16 they do lose ..oh wait that's changed as well 17:46:16 gammafunk: yes, I am pretty sure I knew and used some more obscure commands and options 17:46:30 now it's an effect where the player gets the passive upon gold pickup? 17:46:33 i was like "oh, dwarf samurai is awesome, but you have to fight the masamune, or you can be a human tourist" 17:46:55 gammafunk: I would be grateful if you could do that 17:47:20 dpeg: well, I'm asking, wasn't G changed so that the distraction effect doesn't come from piles? 17:47:32 since that was annoying in terms of what it encouraged? 17:47:42 I just forget what it was changed to 17:47:46 ??gozag 17:47:47 gozag[1/3]: The greedy god of gold. Turns corpses into gold, may cause enemies to lose turns when fighting next to corpse-gold, lets you use {potion petition}, lets you {call merchant}s, and lets you {bribe branch}es. Does not have a normal piety system. 17:48:11 or am I just imagining that it was changed 17:48:29 gozag had/has a distraction effect near the gold? 17:48:40 gammafunk: i heard it was changed too 17:48:45 gammafunk: I think so, but I didn't have time to play Crawl since the tournament :( 17:48:51 let me find the commit 17:48:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:02 gammafunk: it was changed yes 17:49:07 something like, whenever you kill a monster, you get a Distract status 17:49:11 yess 17:49:16 marvinpa commit 17:49:19 i should have used him back then =P 17:49:22 %git c38a6e8078a8ea7e44b963e45873bda79b4bf1e8 17:49:22 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-348-gc38a6e8: Rework Gozag's gold distraction to use a player duration 10(10 weeks ago, 35 files, 49+ 117-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c38a6e8078a8 17:49:28 dpeg: this was the change 17:49:33 ProzacElf: this is not a G nerf 17:49:58 gammafunk: there's a tag crash in the branch that's about to appear, see if you can sort it out 17:50:00 I gotta go 17:50:02 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.1/20150402191859]] 17:50:11 ok 17:50:11 dpeg: i think it seems like a weird thing to begin with 17:50:16 in the branch? 17:50:29 oh, he's making a branch, I guess 17:50:43 commits and leaves! 17:50:46 ProzacElf: the idea is that killing monsters yields a short-term tactical effect -- what is so weird about that? (On top of creating gold == piety, of course.) 17:50:48 typical... 17:51:18 i havent played gozag with status yet but it sounds so much nicer 17:51:27 dpeg: i suppose that makes sense, i just think the gold + piety was already enough 17:52:13 now that you explain it it's logical 17:52:43 ProzacElf: (1) this way, killing order matters sometimes, (2) it shows (without any words) one power of gold 17:53:05 !learn edit gozag[1] s/may cause.*gold/which gives a distraction status that may cause enemies to lose turns./ 17:53:06 gozag[1/3]: The greedy god of gold. Turns corpses into gold, which gives a distraction status that may cause enemies to lose turns., lets you use {potion petition}, lets you {call merchant}s, and lets you {bribe branch}es. Does not have a normal piety system. 17:53:17 swords not words! 17:53:22 !learn edit gozag[1] s/, lets/ Lets/ 17:53:22 gozag[1/3]: The greedy god of gold. Turns corpses into gold, which gives a distraction status that may cause enemies to lose turns. Lets you use {potion petition}, lets you {call merchant}s, and lets you {bribe branch}es. Does not have a normal piety system. 17:53:49 gammafunk: the portal vault thing now actually compiles, but causes an error in wizlab.des (which I didn't touvh). 17:53:52 * dpeg is in over his head. 17:54:01 dpeg: what's the error? 17:54:09 dpeg: yeah, it totally makes sense now that you explained it 17:54:22 dpeg: and you can make and post a patch now, just let us know if you need help with making a patch 17:54:37 FR when i press rx, and x is inscribed with !r, and i decide not to read it after all, please take me back to the main screen, not ask me what else i want to read. i keep pressing movement buttons and reading random scrolls 17:54:40 and actually makes him seem better than just the "extra gold god" 17:54:44 gammafunk: best to wait until the branch is up -- I cannot copypaste, I am typing all these error messages by hand. 17:54:58 haha, ok 17:54:59 it's like the only thing where trying to do something and then pressing escape doesn't result in movement keys working 17:54:59 * dpeg is making vaults like they did in 1830. 17:55:12 ah, the classic vaults from the Victorian Era 17:55:14 pickaxes and shovels? 17:55:24 amalloy: just get a habit of smashing esc at least five times every time you press it 17:55:31 ProzacElf, slaves 17:55:37 ahhh yes 17:55:48 gammafunk: exactly! Many of my vaults were made in Windows Notepad, which I guess is the Victorian editor of choice. 17:55:49 hm this commit says it makes corpseless monsters drop gold at the same rate as ones with corpses but it actually makes it half as likely 17:55:49 yeah i do have such a habit in some cases. i guess it doesn't apply here for some reason 17:56:16 dpeg: I'm glad we've moved to emacs, at least! 17:56:42 hurray for emacs -- especially since I have learned today how to Escape-x set-mark-command to place mark :) 17:56:56 ok, so this change basically gives the gold duration upon monster death 17:57:10 ProzacElf: the other part of implicit Gozag storytelling is that bribing a branch (a) affects boss monsters rather than the chaff, and (b) how people will look away when you kill their neighbours for money, or actually take part if you pay some more. 17:57:36 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:00 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:30 dpeg: so with trunk, G gives the distraction effect upon monster kill, instead of based on where the pile of gold is 17:58:46 gammafunk: yes, that is good! We still get a nice $ instead of % on the ground? 17:58:46 you could rebind that to something more accessible than ctrl-space / ctrl-shift-2 17:58:53 dpeg: right 17:59:01 hmmm 17:59:07 geekosaur: yes, I am sure. It is good enough for tonight. (In general, I work on linux, thank Trog.) 17:59:07 and I think we could just shoot the gold from the flying monster to the player's inventory 17:59:15 bribing a branch affects the boss monsters now? 17:59:17 gammafunk: yes, that'd rock 17:59:20 I guess there's a problem where it's better for a monster to be flying over deep water, lava 17:59:32 well, there's still monster inventory 17:59:35 or did it always and i just never did it right? 17:59:45 So, now that I've worked out the details, lemme ask about this: Animate Dead/Skeleton are absurdly strong, and (imo) permanent allies set up bad incentives in crawl, so I'd like to give the raised zombies/skeletons a timeout like simulacra and spectres. I'm planning to leave Yred animate dead alone. 18:00:07 ProzacElf: always did. If you bribe Hells, you have 1 demons switching allegiance -- this is the crucial gameplay advantage over the old (and bad) proposal to bribe individual monsters -- with that, lower monsters should be cheaper, and that's not good in any sense 18:00:17 ahhh 18:00:45 ok, i just never used it in the right place then probably 18:01:28 Lasty: skeletons and zombies mostly suck though, and can't travel between floors 18:01:50 i mean, i guess like a gold dragon skelly/zombie is pretty powerful 18:01:59 Lasty: I believe that all permanent allies should disappear with time -- we can make exceptions for K and B gods 18:02:01 but mostly they're just fodder 18:02:01 Oh yeah I forgot that I need to fix vestment's interaction with Ru and Gozag. Shiit. 18:02:06 (but not for F oklobs, imo) 18:02:10 free bodyblockers are pretty useful 18:02:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:13 dpeg: what about Y minions? 18:02:33 oh, they can also stay 18:02:38 skeletons and zombies are also good because you can bolt of drain/poison through them 18:02:46 dpeg: sounds like we're on the same page then :D 18:02:51 well, that is a good point 18:03:31 but does that weaken necro-types too much? 18:03:46 i mean, i'm biased, but it's an honest question 18:04:32 ProzacElf: necromancy is pretty strong; this nerf shouldn't signficantly change that 18:04:35 it's a substantial nerf early on but they quickly get other ways to kill things 18:04:36 because pain and vamp are about the only way they have to hurt dudes without animate 18:04:44 substantial, but not unreasonable nerf at all 18:05:15 ProzacElf, yes, but pain and vamp are extremely good ways to kill most things 18:05:25 vamp is only good if you've taken damage though... 18:05:27 well, i suppose you're right 18:05:49 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:51 Plus they are mostly rendered ineffective in extended. 18:05:56 and control undead is great......*if* you're fighting undead 18:06:05 Lasty: so in a nutshell: permanent allies are bad and should wither away. God allies are an exception. I'd like F oklobs to disappear over time (can be slow), to reduce luring temptation. 18:06:07 same with dispel undead 18:06:08 which is exactly when pain and vamp fail :v 18:06:13 heh 18:06:20 the high tier necro stuff is still good though 18:06:27 dd, bjorn, haunt 18:06:34 haunt is great 18:06:48 dd and borg are pretty situational imo 18:06:57 The mid-tier necro stuff is amazing: bolt of draining, excruciating wounds, agony, simulacrum, death channel . . . 18:06:59 the only thing I don't like about haunt is seeing hungry ghosts regardless of their actual HD 18:07:14 ok, agony is just good 18:07:15 what are you guys from D:5 still doing here??? 18:07:19 none of those leve 7+ spells have anything to do with making skeletons/zombies temporary... 18:07:49 but excruciating wounds is practically useless if you made a pain weapon with kiku 18:07:55 or happened to find one 18:08:00 yes, but then you're following kiku... 18:08:08 ProzacElf: . . . so? 18:08:10 Even in early game their addition seems dubious, since they have, what, 5 af_hunger? Hunger's not gonna kill your enemies. 18:08:12 you need to find one with a good base type 18:08:15 New branch created: oublie (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/oublie 18:08:15 03dpeg02 {PleasingFungus} 07[oublie] * 0.17-a0-679-g0821ee9: WIP oubliette stuff 10(36 minutes ago, 15 files, 6776+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0821ee926d2f 18:08:16 New branch created: pv (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/pv 18:08:16 03dpeg02 07[pv] * 0.17-a0-686-g88ec9e9: feh 10(36 minutes ago, 15 files, 6776+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88ec9e95fb23 18:08:16 03dpeg02 07[pv] * 0.17-a0-687-g9db47c8: Move Oubliette to bottom. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9db47c842cd5 18:08:16 03dpeg02 07[pv] * 0.17-a0-688-g2280fab: Fix exit bug. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2280fab27130 18:08:18 ??githubpoke 18:08:18 githubpoke[1/1]: http://tozt.net:9876/crawl 18:08:23 heh 18:08:24 oublie 18:08:26 no you don't 18:08:29 pain is good on a dagger 18:08:31 daggers grow in trees 18:08:31 ah, i guess it doesn't really matter much 18:08:33 exec of pain isn't going to help you if you're a polearms dude 18:08:41 hrm 18:08:57 I'm curious about this oubliette stuff :o 18:09:02 is there any info about it anywhere 18:09:04 i normally get my skeletons/zombies murdered very soon after i make them 18:09:07 well something odd happened 18:09:13 why is that one commit in a different branch 18:09:24 CanOfWorms: there is no content atm... didn't expect setting up the framework to take so long. But you can already read what I am aiming for :) 18:09:41 I missed that, where did you write it? 18:09:45 in the channel? 18:10:08 no, it is in oubliette.des 18:10:11 even if i'm using yred i usually get them killed before i leave the dungeon floor 18:10:14 my design document 18:10:16 ah 18:10:23 ProzacElf: in that case you won't notice a difference :) 18:10:53 Lasty: lol, that was kind of the point i realized 18:11:02 CanOfWorms: it is also not clear if the concept will work: I need ally / opposition combinations that are often interesting (i.e. the player alone can generally not clear the vault, so she needs the ally). 18:11:17 oh I see 18:11:22 the first was PF pushing stuff 18:11:23 ah, it's that permanent ally portal 18:11:23 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:25 idea 18:11:29 exactly 18:11:30 the second was dpeg's branch 18:11:47 well, permanent only during the vault -- the ally cannot leave the vault 18:11:49 dpeg: what's the difference between PF's commit to oublie? 18:11:57 can that be ignored? 18:12:06 it has a file dpeg_vaults that seems erroneous 18:12:10 gammafunk: I don't know, but my last one should be the most recent one 18:12:11 that looks like it adds a whole bunch of old removed speech lines too somehow? 18:12:15 yes 18:12:29 Pf told me not to worry, so I didn't worry 18:12:48 sorry for the mess guys 18:12:59 It used to be much easier! 18:13:04 well, messes in branches are no problem :P 18:13:27 dpeg: ok, I think I see, the "feh" commit is basically the one pf pushed 18:13:44 dpeg: I can probably clean this up and put in a new branch 18:13:53 <3 18:13:55 but we'll need to have you switch to that before you do further work (the new branch I make) 18:14:04 so please no more work until I do that :) 18:14:26 should just take a few mins 18:14:35 I want to get at least this part working: together with Dowan you rescue Duvessa. 18:14:48 gammafunk: I am waiting. 18:15:01 -!- Kolbur has left ##crawl-dev 18:15:56 or vice-versa i hope! 18:16:08 !learn del lasty_to_do[-1 18:16:09 Deleted lasty to do[8/8]: @verb@ of the Path 18:16:13 MarvinPA: sure! 18:16:27 !learn set lasty_to_do[-1 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; 18:16:27 lasty to do[7/7]: 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; 18:16:34 There will be a lot of playtesting needed, but that's the hope. 18:16:54 !learn edit lasty-to_do[-1 s/$/ ranged reform;/ 18:16:54 I don't have a page labeled lasty-to_do[-1] in my learndb. 18:17:05 !learn edit lasty_to_do[-1 s/$/ ranged reform;/ 18:17:05 lasty to do[7/7]: 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; ranged reform; 18:17:28 Lasty: Thanks for zombie nerf! While you are at it, would you also give those oklobs a timer? Or is oklob luring only an imagined problem? 18:21:36 "Really read with blurry vision while enemies are nearby?" promt still wastes a turn if you type "N" 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9650 by Fusha 18:21:36 dpeg: synced_syraine.patch, what is this? 18:21:36 it looks like you added a patch file to the repo 18:21:36 Alright, now the Iconoclast robes should work with Ru. Strangely, but work, nonetheles.. 18:21:36 can I delete this? 18:21:36 -!- Elystan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:21:36 dpeg: and likewise source/dat/des/branches/dpeg_vaults? 18:21:36 dpeg: and likewise source/dat/des/branches/vaults_rooms_empty.bak 18:21:36 gammafunk: I have no idea, this must be really old. You can ignore it. 18:21:36 yeah, you have to be careful not to use git add -a without care 18:21:36 best to add files individually 18:21:36 unless you're sure what's in a directory 18:21:36 I only edited today: branch.cc, branch-data.h, enum.h, features-data.h, mon-pick-data.h, and added oubliette.des 18:21:36 ah sorry... I did learn not to use git commit -a (thanks to submodules) at least 18:21:36 Best to check what you are adding with "git status" 18:21:36 yeah looks like your submodules got changed as well 18:21:36 yes, git status is good for this 18:21:36 I always do git status 18:21:36 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:22:43 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-689-gb4b85f5: Give Animate Dead/Skeleton minions a timeout 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b4b85f546d5c 18:22:43 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-690-g1d68bd3: Adjust fencer's gloves inscription and desc 10(58 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d68bd302929 18:22:43 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-691-ge3400ba: Give Leech its own on-equip message 10(56 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3400ba988a2 18:22:43 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-692-g78e0039: Improve crown of torment's inscription and desc 10(54 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/78e0039f6bf3 18:22:43 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-693-gf724129: Reduce the crown of torment's HP penalty to 20% 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f724129b6431 18:22:51 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 18:22:53 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 18:23:27 Anyway, I am off to sleep. http://puu.sh/hiILz/4d435761be.patch 18:23:43 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:23:52 I hoped to work on my roguelike today, but tinkering with Crawl's source has been good insight. 18:24:04 floatRand: what is your roguelike? 18:24:13 03chequers02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.17-a0-694-g43fafe5: Remove cost scaling from Potion Petition. 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/43fafe5b8122 18:24:13 03chequers02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.17-a0-695-g9f0601a: Drop gold for corpseless monsters under Gozag. 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f0601aa7230 18:24:13 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-696-gf431408: Slightly increase the base price of Potion Petition 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f431408e7d1e 18:24:13 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-697-geef7913: Make corpseless monsters actually drop gold at the same rate as corpseful ones 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eef79137aa65 18:24:13 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-698-gba012ec: Remove an unused Gozag attribute 10(17 minutes ago, 3 files, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ba012ec474be 18:24:13 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-699-g19fd2f3: Adjust Gozag's faith-removal message 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19fd2f384b4b 18:24:13 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-700-g9ff924d: Update Potion Petition description 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9ff924df414e 18:24:15 ok, almost done here, just have to reset these submodules and some stuff 18:24:19 gammafunk: you rock! 18:24:37 but ofc I have to rebase due to a massive MPA commitstorm! 18:24:41 Nothing much yet, just some groundwork done. http://i.imgur.com/MddNTLr.png 18:24:55 -!- KiT_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:25:06 floatRand: why not make Crawl your roguelike? (Just joking, more power to you!) 18:25:16 nice, animate dead nerf 18:25:44 MarvinPA, chequers: would a G follower still lose gold for killing an insubstantial monster while over lava? 18:25:58 at the moment, yeah 18:26:18 Because the idea for gameplay is rather drastically different ( including overworld, variable curses, day/night-progression, gases etc. ) so refitting Crawl would be more work than just working my own stuff on C#. Mostly. 18:26:20 what if you're flying? 18:26:22 simmarine: i might start using animate spells again now 18:26:30 could you pick it up then? 18:26:31 Still, better for practice. 18:26:38 i will continue to use them like normal 18:26:50 not crucial, but in the end it'd be cool if the player would just get that gold in her pockets (rationale: G wants to make very sure that the gold ends up where it belongs, at all costs) 18:27:00 also more incentive to move to simulacrum 18:27:15 i kind of agree with dpeg here 18:27:20 simmarine: also, players can complain about that nerf all day long 18:27:25 but i can also see the incentive to fly 18:27:35 dpeg: but that is implied with every change! 18:27:42 as long as it doesn't just disappear 18:27:48 simmarine: players do not complain about new content 18:28:03 and also, players will always complain =p 18:28:16 hell, i complain, and i usually agree with you guys 18:28:22 dpeg: well i know someone who doesnt like it when anything is added to crawl...! 18:28:37 yes, some players have Stockholm syndrome 18:28:47 people sometimes complain about new content . . 18:28:54 lol, i still miss lava orcs 18:28:56 people definitely complain about new content :P 18:29:09 and sludge elves 18:29:20 "%s turns into gold. Before the gold can fall into "+liquid+", Gozag's power reaches it and adds it in your pockets. No wasting gold." 18:29:26 pop quiz: would adding MD today cause more complaints or more happiness? :) 18:29:33 tomatochips (L27 SpBe) ASSERT(in_diamond_int(r->start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 166 failed. (Zot:5) 18:29:40 floatRand: yes, somewhat like this 18:29:52 lol, aren't there still people bitching about removing MD? 18:29:57 ofc 18:29:58 yes 18:30:22 hah 18:30:41 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:30:54 readd MD, give them -3 to all apts 18:31:03 i swear i was one of the only people from 0.8 who didn't miss them 18:31:04 see how many people still paly them 18:31:30 ProzacElf: wow, so long ago... 18:32:14 they were actually removed in 0.10 18:32:36 well, i downloaded 0.8 then found out that i could get newer versions 18:32:58 someone definitely complained when potions of slowing were removed so I think it's fair to say that every change is bad 18:33:01 so i went straight from 0.8 to 0.10 or 11 18:35:42 dpeg: while I'm compiling, can you give me 18:35:46 -!- CacoS has quit [] 18:36:19 you need cash? 18:37:22 I do miss evaporation, though. 18:37:45 someone actually complained about replacing potions of slowing? 18:38:14 lol, evaporation was fun, but i can see the logic behind losing it 18:38:21 ug, sorry 18:38:26 cash for more memory 18:38:48 dpeg: can you give me a no more than 72 char commit title (one line) to describe adding the oubliette 18:38:54 and ideally also a commit message? 18:39:14 just a paragraph describing the basic idea of the thing 18:39:21 would be helpful if the commit adding it did this 18:39:31 I'm going to make one commit with all your oubliette stuff 18:39:38 so it'd be good if the commit was just 18:39:40 "feh" 18:39:43 and nothing else :) 18:39:45 dpeg: i have no idea 18:39:47 *wasn't! 18:39:54 dpeg: probably, half the time 18:40:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:40:24 commit message can just be a few sentences, just to describe the idea 18:40:40 or even one sentence if you don't have time :) 18:41:18 sure, can do 18:41:26 and fulsome whatever was great, but it obviously has no point without evaporation 18:42:21 MarvinPA: the commits you pushed look identical to what I submitted but you said you made further edits 18:42:24 maybe this is a good time to suggest something better than "Oubliette" -- I need a general name for something where you free someone/something (from a prison, dungeon etc.) and go on a rampage together 18:42:36 MarvinPA: just checking you didn't miss anything 18:42:45 that word makes me think of david bowie and the movie Labyrthing 18:43:18 *Labyrinth 18:43:28 I didn't like "jail" or "prison", so I went for "oubliette" in the hope it sounds more archaic (in contrast to "incunabulum" and "ziggurat" I've never seen that word before). 18:43:34 chequers: ah those were in the later commits, should have made that clearer 18:43:48 easy 18:43:51 thanks for the push!! 18:44:03 gozag is clearly Fixed now 18:44:03 oubliette is cool sounding, but so is incunabulum 18:44:03 np, thanks for the patches :) 18:44:03 can sewers be renamed to something really nonstandard? 18:44:05 heh 18:44:21 sewer is so surface 18:44:22 simmarine: do you have a suggestion 18:44:28 nope! 18:44:40 i was also thinking of killing the joining fee since it's basically just Flavour that breaks late game switches 18:44:41 ok, in the absence of proposal I'll stick with oubliette 18:44:43 then we have to rename Vaults... 18:44:54 chequers: that was the intent, btw 18:44:57 chequers: i think breaking late game switches is the main intention- 18:44:58 yeah 18:45:20 or at least, make switching not entirely trivial (can always tweak the fee, of course) 18:45:44 since the thing with gozag is that even when you're not worshipping him you're effectively earning gozag piety 18:45:53 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-701-gb6462b4: Don't waste time while cancelling blurread (9650) 10(72 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b6462b4c20db 18:46:08 well, you're not getting gold from corpses 18:47:17 chequers: but you're also only paying for found gold 18:47:24 sure, but most characters still have a few thousand gold they don't need later on, not sure it's great to immediately be able to convert all of that into shops if you switch 18:47:52 chequers: I just want the timing to matter a little bit, with the current fee it is not clear that later is better. 18:48:41 good point 18:49:01 i don't really mind it fwiw, i can't really imaging a reason to want to change to gozag 18:49:15 chequers: you get access to items 18:49:23 hell branches becomes easier 18:49:25 -!- aarujn has quit [Quit: aarujn] 18:49:36 the stack duplication i suppose 18:49:40 that's gone 18:49:43 oops 18:50:03 MarvinPA said that if I come up with decent wrath it might come back. :) 18:50:54 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:55 The build has errored. (pv - 2280fab #2329 : David Ploog): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/59073762 18:50:55 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 18:51:03 New branch created: pull/8 (41 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/8 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-82-g93bfbe0: Added a unique formicid named Pyriformis. 10(5 weeks ago, 12 files, 86+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93bfbe0e1316 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-84-g216ef0b: Merge branch 'master' of https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl into uniq_formicid 10(5 weeks ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/216ef0bdb4cd 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-85-g363e236: Added code for a formicid corpse tile. 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/363e23602b9d 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-86-gd110d5d: Tweaked Pyriformis' stats. 10(5 weeks ago, 3 files, 6+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d110d5d944fd 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-120-gebbd9cb: reverted some pyriformis code to fix merge conflicts the code will be re-added later. 10(4 weeks ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ebbd9cb277a0 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-125-ga401e8a: Merge branch 'master' of https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl into uniq_formicid 10(4 weeks ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a401e8a0e387 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-126-g931a9eb: Reverted previous changes. 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/931a9eb39f13 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-127-g6c59bf9: Added silence-like stasis spell + Pyriformis name change. 10(3 weeks ago, 39 files, 181+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c59bf965c09 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-209-g6e25d0a: Merge branch 'master' of https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl into uniq_formicid 10(3 weeks ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e25d0a42a81 18:51:05 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-216-g5b8d4d9: Merge branch 'master' of https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl into uniq_formicid 10(3 weeks ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5b8d4d9859f2 18:51:05 ... and 31 more commits 18:51:21 !blame dpeg 18:51:22 I pronounce dpeg... Guilty! 18:51:41 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:47 dang, rebase that son 18:52:54 lol yeah that is a lot of pointless merge commits. cool that there's a unique formicid coming though 18:53:11 not sure that qualifies as a thing that is coming 18:53:29 MarvinPA: you think it won't work? 18:54:20 -!- djp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:54:56 or at least i'm not a fan of the stasis field idea, i think just re-using dimension anchor would be better there 18:54:57 ah. i saw "discussed on issue #x" and assumed that meant someone had already said it was a good idea 18:56:49 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:20 MarvinPA: commmit my hammer buff 18:57:24 hammer > * 18:57:33 hammer buff? 18:57:59 chequers wants Yiuf to get more kills! 18:58:15 nah, it's just ground loot, no lethality change 18:58:19 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:58:32 this is great 18:58:42 now players can really troll us by making github pull requests 18:58:45 Who doesn't want Yiuf to get more kills?!?! 18:58:49 chequers: better loot --> more dead players from greed! 18:58:53 gammafunk: heh, yeah. That might be bad. 18:59:21 Lasty: github pull requestion moderation 18:59:23 gammafunk: there must be a way to deal with that 18:59:51 dpeg: can't argue with that 19:00:02 not sure, aside from not showing pull requests through chei 19:00:07 maybe |amethyst or doy have ideas 19:00:12 but it's not exactly a problem yet either 19:00:22 contribution haters 19:00:32 ok, now to see if the oubliette crashes or not! 19:01:12 spoiler: it crashes! 19:01:15 03Tom Conrad02 07[pull/8] * 0.17-a0-743-g9c605fc: Merge branch 'master' of https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl into uniq_formicid 10(2 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9c605fc55008 19:01:17 Cerebov is distracted by fire vortexes from its Fire Storm 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9651 by Sandman25 19:01:17 let me see if I can fix this 19:04:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:44 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:22 dpeg: ah, one thing is you didn't put those exit/enter features at the very end, but you instead put them at the end of their respective groups 19:07:30 I was definitely confused. 19:08:46 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:06 dpeg: oh, we need a shorter branch abbrev 19:11:52 dpeg: e.g. Ice Cave becomes IceCv 19:11:56 Oubl? 19:12:07 gammafunk: the French word Oubli? 19:12:13 sounds good 19:12:15 I am sure galehar would approve :) 19:12:22 what happens in the oubliette? 19:13:07 (It's "oblivion" in French, but fits better with Oubliette, I think. Also trivial to change.) 19:13:21 Lasty: read oubliette.des, it currently does little but answer that question. 19:13:30 haha 19:13:34 !source oubliette.des 19:13:35 Can't find oubliette.des. 19:13:43 it is in a branch 19:13:51 %git 19:13:51 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.17-a0-701-gb6462b4: Don't waste time while cancelling blurread (9650) 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b6462b4c20db 19:14:18 what's the branch name? 19:14:26 %git pv 19:14:26 07dpeg02 * 0.17-a0-688-g2280fab: Fix exit bug. 10(70 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2280fab27130 19:14:34 %git :/feh 19:14:34 07dpeg02 * 0.17-a0-686-g88ec9e9: feh 10(2 hours ago, 15 files, 6776+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/88ec9e95fb23 19:14:42 Lasty: see the oubliette.des in that 19:14:49 I'll be pushing a fixedup branch soon (I hope) 19:15:09 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:31 oo, neat 19:16:27 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:27 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:16:34 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:42 ok, let me practise the piano for a bit, will work on the vault when it's ready 19:22:09 -!- AltReality has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:13 dpeg: yeah, sorry, I have to track down this crash 19:24:25 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:28:22 why does apportation's spellpower go up to 10 pips? i know at very low spellpower you can move items just a tile or two, but at 3 or 4 pips it's enough to apport the orb right to you 19:28:55 for apporting those gold dragon corpses of course 19:28:57 oh wait 19:29:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:24 think I have the save compat fix, so we'll see how this goes 19:31:02 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:03 The build has errored. (oublie - 0821ee9 #2330 : David Ploog): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/59073785 19:31:03 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 19:31:15 !blame2 ploog 19:31:15 ppplllooooooggg 19:31:29 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:31:30 question 19:31:41 when will cszo update with the gozag changes 19:34:56 ??rebuild 19:34:56 rebuild[1/2]: https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 19:34:56 ??rebuild[2 19:34:56 rebuild[2/2]: Trunk update start times in UTC (second number during summer time): CSZO: 0600/0500; CAO: 1700; CDO: 0600/0500; CLAN: 2300/2200; CBRO: 0800/0700; CXC: 0500/0400; CPO: every 15 minutes 19:34:56 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:56 that's when 19:34:56 gammafunk: sorry for mess :( 19:34:56 question: does call merchant's cost also rise the more you use it and was that changed with these recent buffs 19:34:56 no worries, it should hopefully go pretty smooth once we get a cleaned up branch made 19:34:56 looks like it's just a save compat fix I needed to make 19:34:56 we'll see when I finish compiling 19:36:08 -!- cesium has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:37:11 Lightli: yes it does and no it wasn't 19:37:17 rip 19:37:39 <|amethyst> gammafunk: which reminds me 19:37:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: IWBNI we had a test that included some old saves 19:38:15 <|amethyst> gammafunk: that tried transferring them and made sure nothing obvious appeared to be too screwed up 19:38:46 |amethyst: question, not very related to what you just said, but, am I correct in adding 19:38:56 if (th.getMinorVersion() < TAG_MINOR_OUBLIETTE && br == BRANCH_OUBLIETTE) 19:38:59 br = NUM_BRANCHES; 19:39:04 to unmarshallPlaceInfo 19:39:39 since it seems using br = NUM_BRANCHES is important for PlaceInfo::is_global() 19:40:09 oh weird 19:40:16 oubliet is out of order in wiz mode travel 19:40:31 (2) Trove (3) Sewer (4) Ossuary (9) Oubliette 19:40:38 (5) Bailey (6) Ice Cave (7) Volcano (8) Wizlab 19:40:39 <|amethyst> gammafunk: that's intentional 19:40:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh, the number 19:40:56 <|amethyst> not sure how those numbers are assigned 19:41:03 looks like case...nope 19:41:06 <|amethyst> but it's supposed to come after Ossuary there 19:41:15 question 19:41:18 oh 19:41:22 <|amethyst> branch order in branch.cc is different from enum order 19:41:26 with the shop petition, does the price in any way reflect the value of the items in the shop 19:41:26 What level of an oubliette? (default 1, ? - help) 19:41:49 what's an oubliette 19:41:55 ??oubliette 19:41:55 I don't have a page labeled oubliette in my learndb. 19:42:08 <|amethyst> Lightli: a hole in the ground where you put people to be forgotten and die 19:42:21 gammafunk: yes, I chose the 9 only because it was free... had I taken the number after Ossuary, that'd have caused follow-up changes 19:42:43 <|amethyst> hmm 19:44:54 <|amethyst> not sure why it's prompting about the level 19:45:17 does anyone know if kiku's miscast protection is 100% 19:45:25 i could look it up but just to be sure 19:45:29 |amethyst: also it thinks that depths doesn't have a monster list 19:45:31 so what's the deal with oubliette, themewise 19:45:34 Does Fedhas still do the thing where turning toadstools into wandering mushrooms takes more piety than turning fungus into wandering mushrooms? 19:45:34 let me post my patch 19:45:48 NO ONE ASK ANY MORE ABOUT OUBLIETTE THEME UNTIL WE FIX IT 19:45:49 and if so, does it seem like a good idea to anyone? 19:45:50 --Zot 19:45:52 because sif removes the "danger" color off spells with his miscast protection, but kiku doesnt get the same treatment for necromancy 19:46:06 Lasty: is that really a thing :/ 19:46:15 it once was, or so I understood 19:46:17 |amethyst: could it be due to the fourth number in BRANCH_OUBLIETTE in branch-data.h? (These numbers are -1,-1,1,5) 19:46:18 I suppose I should just look i tup 19:46:47 <|amethyst> dpeg: the third number is the relevant one for that, and is correctly 1 19:46:50 |amethyst: http://sprunge.us/aJfM?diff 19:47:03 it looks like it's not currently true. 19:47:19 oh, er 19:47:21 |amethyst: I had a hunch the fourth one is meaningless there... but the various portal vaults have different numbers, which added a bit to my confusion 19:47:21 I see something there 19:47:22 -!- memories has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:23 thta looks bad 19:47:26 it looks like the cost per mushroom got increased from what I last heard as well 19:47:33 <|amethyst> dpeg: the fourth number is how deep it counts as for purposes like item gen 19:47:47 dpeg: you added branche_oubliette out of order in branch.cc 19:47:59 <|amethyst> dpeg: it's now based on a fixed starting number for each branch, instead of where it placed 19:48:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: in branch_order? 19:48:15 gammafunk: I understood that in branch.cc I can use the natural order! :O 19:48:22 <|amethyst> aha 19:48:23 yes 19:48:24 more like noobliette 19:48:30 <|amethyst> branch-data.h has to match branch.cc 19:48:36 <|amethyst> so it's that that is out of order 19:48:50 oh branch-data can be in any order? 19:48:58 that would make sense 19:49:03 <|amethyst> branch-data.h and branch_order have to be the same I think 19:49:11 dpeg: but yeah the order of branch-data and branch_order have to be the same 19:49:14 <|amethyst> since I don't see any index indirection the way we have for feature data 19:49:34 <|amethyst> it would make sense for branch-data to also not care about order, though 19:49:41 <|amethyst> and just add another permutation array 19:50:04 gammafunk: yes, I understand: they were in (natural) order, i.e. sewer,ossuary,oubliette. Then I moved it to the end in branch-data.h but forgot to do the same in banch.cc. 19:50:30 banish him to kennysheep Vaults! 19:50:37 <|amethyst> in the ideal situation, no *-data.h should care about order 19:51:01 <|amethyst> that's not quite the case now sadly 19:51:23 <|amethyst> fortunately monster, spell, and feature data don't have to be in order at least 19:52:23 |amethyst: and these macros in feature-data.h? 19:52:28 PORTAL_ENTRANCE(DNGN_ENTER_DIS, "gateway to the Iron City of Dis", "enter_dis", CYAN), 19:53:00 these don't care about feature def order, I'm guessing 19:53:07 <|amethyst> gammafunk: they shouldn't 19:53:11 <|amethyst> gammafunk: see _init_feature_index 19:53:14 ok, they match anyhow 19:53:38 <|amethyst> possibly that's buggy then 19:53:43 <|amethyst> if they are in fact in order atm 19:53:50 <|amethyst> that means out of order hasn't been tested 19:53:59 gammafunk: oh, I also missed the branch description. Could you add a dummy one? I will flesh out afterwards. 19:54:41 dpeg: I'll let you do that after I get this working and pushed 19:54:45 ok 19:55:08 I will also update the docs to make this process less painful in the future. 19:56:08 <|amethyst> Quote for oubliette: “It's a hee and a hoe and I love my baby so / In the bottom of the bottomless pit / Don't make a sound or we might drag your baby down / To the bottom of the bottomless pit.” -The Dead Milkmen, “The Pit”. 1987. 19:56:22 <|amethyst> I'm sure you can find something more literary :) 19:58:42 |amethyst: oh, ASSERT(branches[i].id == i || branches[i].id == NUM_BRANCHES) in 'main.cc' at line 3809 failed. 19:59:25 seems someone got a bit too clever? 20:00:05 iterating over the branches def, making sure the id matches the definition order 20:00:26 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:31 <|amethyst> err 20:00:58 <|amethyst> how is that even working now/ 20:01:10 <|amethyst> OHHH 20:01:19 <|amethyst> hm 20:01:34 <|amethyst> yeah, I was wrong 20:01:42 helpfully, it asserted so early, that webtiles server didn't report the crash 20:01:44 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 20:01:45 <|amethyst> looks like branch_data.h does need to match the enum? 20:01:53 it just acts like nothing happened 20:01:53 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:01 <|amethyst> I was misreading this: 20:02:04 <|amethyst> if (i < NUM_BRANCHES) 20:02:04 <|amethyst> return &branches[branch_order[i]]; 20:02:19 <|amethyst> but that i is the iterator's int, not a branch enum 20:02:21 ok, so we should add the branch def at the end? 20:02:31 and likewise adjust branches.cc? 20:02:35 <|amethyst> yeah, but didn't dpeg have it there and something wasn't working? 20:02:46 <|amethyst> branch_order should be independent of it 20:02:48 well it mismatched 20:02:50 in branches.cc 20:02:56 that's why it was a problem 20:03:06 but yeah his def was at the end 20:03:12 brnaches.cc just had a different order 20:03:15 so different problem 20:03:23 <|amethyst> see how branch_order in branch.cc is already a different order from the enum 20:03:29 <|amethyst> e.g. depth is in the "new" location 20:03:42 <|amethyst> so I'm not sure what the problem was when branch-data.h had it at the ned 20:03:43 <|amethyst> end 20:03:53 hrm 20:04:27 well I was getting a lua error when loading wizlab that turned out to be that crawl thought that Depths didn't have a monster population defined 20:04:39 and when I went to depths on a new level 20:04:43 only vaults had any monsters 20:04:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ohh 20:04:47 <|amethyst> gammafunk: in mon-pick-data.h 20:04:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it's before POP(depths) 20:04:55 <|amethyst> should be after 20:04:58 ok 20:05:01 will fix that 20:05:11 so for branch.cc, do I need to adjust that or no? 20:05:13 <|amethyst> in all four arrays 20:05:17 <|amethyst> branch.cc should be fine 20:05:22 <|amethyst> and independent of everything else 20:05:29 <|amethyst> branch_order that is 20:05:48 <|amethyst> I was misreading the nested subscripting when I thought branch-data.h had to match that 20:06:51 <|amethyst> what was the last branch we actually added 20:07:03 <|amethyst> as opposed to starting to use an enum that had been there forever? 20:07:09 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:24 <|amethyst> I guess probably nothing has been added since portal_branches 20:07:39 |amethyst: hrm, I see that POP(DEPTHS) has a > 34 thing 20:07:47 but shouldn't that also exist for branch-data.h? 20:07:51 since these arrays must match? 20:07:54 i see there 20:08:05 's a PR merge commit, does that mean we're officially on github 20:08:15 <|amethyst> gammafunk: indeed 20:08:16 no, still gitorious hell 20:08:23 |amethyst: depths was added but replaced Void (which used to be Hive) 20:08:28 you probably know that 20:08:54 <|amethyst> hm 20:09:00 <|amethyst> actually 20:09:04 <|amethyst> it was added to the end 20:09:08 oh wheals 20:09:09 i don't know the context here 20:09:20 I made an actual torment crown tile 20:09:41 I need to hunt down the link in the logs again 20:09:49 |amethyst: sure it wasn't inside #if s? or don't forget the original commit, people were thinking about breaking save compat 20:09:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, it should be in both places under different #ifs... which is annoying 20:10:02 wheals: http://i.imgur.com/NLWN6QJ.png http://i.imgur.com/lkNIKyP.png 20:10:20 <|amethyst> wheals: right now BRANCH_DEPTHS is at the end of the enum in the current version, and will move to between tomb and vestibule on compat break 20:10:33 <|amethyst> wheals: I do remember something about the old hive enum though 20:10:34 CanOfWorms: nice 20:10:49 -!- Petri_Dish has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:50 <|amethyst> ah 20:10:56 <|amethyst> yeah, the old hive enum was at the end 20:11:00 <|amethyst> BRANCH_UNUSED that is 20:11:30 -!- aarujn has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:34 <|amethyst> maybe we should also have a test case that builds with -DTAG_MAJOR_VERSION=999 20:11:46 <|amethyst> I know that will break currently 20:12:04 <|amethyst> art-data.pl needs manual changes, as do a lot of data files 20:12:34 floatRand: did you end up making a tormentcrown tile too? 20:13:48 a bit confused by the logs 20:13:53 shouldn't the crown of torment be grey/bone rather than gold 20:14:22 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 20:15:29 what color are YOUR bones 20:15:57 <|amethyst> You see here me timbers (shivered). 20:16:19 chequers: the description specifies gold :v 20:16:41 I can totally make it bony though 20:16:48 yeah desc change is fine 20:17:36 !tell pleasingfungus i know you're a python dude but that's no excuse to return an int instead of a spret_type!!! 20:17:36 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:18:08 You feel your int returning 20:18:18 <|amethyst> tie him to the bowspret! 20:18:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:05 <|amethyst> for ludicrous jibbooms 20:19:12 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:35 an almost good excuse would be to avoid more header inclusions enum.h in headers , but you can even forward-declare enums now! 20:21:15 wheals: http://i.imgur.com/vc0RDRo.png http://i.imgur.com/mEnNPgE.png 20:21:45 !tell marvinpa thanks for the {in,de}scription changes! (also i thought that vampire vampiric brand thing had been removed years ago, good catch) 20:21:45 wheals: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 20:21:56 now with blood red rubies instead of jet black obsidian 20:21:59 spooky! 20:22:06 *spoopy 20:25:20 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:25:57 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:26:22 dpeg: success!!! 20:26:47 woohoo 20:27:03 I led friendly sigmund out of the foul oubliette! 20:27:10 now he's my friend, in the dungeon, forever 20:27:10 * dpeg burns a candle, a book and a sheep to the glory of gammafunk! 20:27:25 gammafunk: that's not intended, but a problem for another day :) 20:27:26 dpeg: a candle, a book, and ring the bell of opening please! 20:27:33 yeah 20:27:39 ok I think this is ready to be pushed 20:27:44 let me just give it a quick once over 20:27:46 (I picked up somewhere that allies stay behind.) 20:29:25 sigmund, friendly? heresy! 20:29:41 <|amethyst> hm 20:29:41 dpeg: i believe they won't come in, but they will go out (handy for beogh in bailey) 20:29:44 wheals: I know, that's part of the appeal! 20:29:54 <|amethyst> do you get a milestone when friendly sigmund dies? 20:30:01 <|amethyst> if so, maybe it should be phrased differently 20:30:08 <|amethyst> instead of "killed Sigmund" 20:30:10 -!- Icadius has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 20:30:14 "left your friend Sigmund to die" 20:30:16 !lm * uniq=your_royal_jelly 20:30:17 2. [2015-03-29 07:50:44] damdam the Slayer (L21 DsCK of Xom) killed your royal jelly on turn 60507. (Slime:6) 20:30:21 "because you're scum" 20:30:22 <|amethyst> not sure what that needs sequell-side though 20:30:26 "killed your sigmund" 20:30:28 "you don't deserve friends" 20:30:53 <|amethyst> Oh my god, they killed Sigmund! 20:31:03 <|amethyst> The player is the true bastard. 20:31:07 |amethyst: I want that milestone: 1. Need to make sure that the oubliette ally stays behind... there must be a way to achieve this (perhaps a new monster flag. 2. Some players will backstab Sigmund (or any ally) before leaving the vault -- that filthy deed should be documented, so needs a milestone. 20:31:15 gammafunk: is 9648 the nicolae- change you already made 20:31:24 s/made/pushed 20:31:52 !mantis 9648 20:31:53 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9648 20:32:02 yeah i think that got pushed 20:32:24 wheals: I want another rare version where humans have imprisoned Pikel, but the player can set Pikel free and they can kill the humans together. 20:32:26 oh dang fast 20:32:48 <|amethyst> hmm 20:32:51 <|amethyst> right now it's 20:32:56 <|amethyst> const bool can_follow = branch_allows_followers(you.where_are_you); 20:33:06 <|amethyst> would need a check related to the branch you came from too 20:33:25 anyways, why did invisibility need a nerf 20:33:27 <|amethyst> (this is in _grab_followers) 20:33:37 |amethyst: might be easier if my MONS/KMONS specification can add a monster tag "will not leave the level this is generated on" 20:33:42 doesn't stealth already have some issues 20:34:06 <|amethyst> dpeg: hm, I'd rather just make it something on the branch 20:34:10 <|amethyst> but that could work 20:34:26 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:34:43 |amethyst: ok, was just worried that a lucky player might bring/acquire other allies in the vault (god? card?) and wonder why he cannot get them out 20:34:56 <|amethyst> ah, hm 20:34:58 <|amethyst> good point 20:35:58 yeah, beogh and yred gift allies 20:36:06 <|amethyst> mercenary card 20:36:16 Lightli: the vault is almost certainly too early for these to matter, but you never know 20:36:34 <|amethyst> yred can get allies fairly quickly 20:36:38 true 20:36:41 <|amethyst> though I guess that's less likely with no DK 20:37:01 |amethyst: but a lucky Monk with faith... who knows 20:37:11 yeah 20:37:22 I saw a picture of someone with IOOD castable on D:6 or 7 20:37:26 hossa 20:37:40 <|amethyst> I have heard tales of tornado in Lair 20:38:26 I got fire storm online before Lair:$ once 20:38:35 which is even harder :v 20:38:37 aha, i see that floatRand posted his tile in tavern 20:38:38 <|amethyst> yeah 20:38:53 though it doesn't have a doll tile 20:38:56 <|amethyst> Lightli: IMO you should have gone back up to die on Lair:1 20:39:01 <|amethyst> Lightli: or D:3 20:39:29 eh, stormcallers exist now, fire storm in D on enemies isn't unexpected anymore :v 20:40:55 ??githubpoke 20:40:55 githubpoke[1/1]: http://tozt.net:9876/crawl 20:41:18 dpeg: ok, there's a new branch that you should use 20:41:23 it's just called oubliette 20:41:26 New branch created: oubliette (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/oubliette 20:41:26 03dpeg02 {gammafunk} 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-701-g64936da: New portal vault: the Oubliette. 10(7 minutes ago, 8 files, 152+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64936da5e7ff 20:41:26 03gammafunk02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-702-g0ff73da: Save compat fix for Oubliette portal 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ff73dab55af 20:41:43 awesome 20:41:55 dpeg: git fetch origin 20:42:03 should allow you to see the remote branch 20:42:08 then git checkout oubliette 20:42:16 oh 20:42:17 my 20:42:17 god 20:42:22 this tavern thread 20:42:48 OMG ALLIED SIGMUND WHAT ARE YOU DOING GAMMAFUNK 20:42:51 wheals: which of them, they are so many :) 20:42:58 chequers: it is my undoing 20:43:12 dpeg: since that's public, you can make commits and push to that, but try not to force-push over it 20:43:14 high five this is the best 20:43:40 "display avg hp as bar" turning into "werid tavern personalities brag about school performance" 20:43:43 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:49 dpeg: oh, I went with a different vault naming scheme 20:44:00 portal_oubliette_entry_blah 20:44:02 for entries 20:44:06 cool 20:44:07 as opposed to the normal tavern personalities? 20:44:09 and oubliette_blah for destinations 20:44:30 tavern is so strange I have posted to SA yesterday... first time in years 20:44:52 return of the sperg! 20:45:02 |amethyst: it turns out you have to make that change to dummy.des to allow branches without layouts to place 20:45:02 (or was that wordpress comments...) 20:45:08 wheals: wordpress 20:45:19 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:34 wheals: I completely forgot I have this trolling signature on SA, but then again, I wasn't able to change it either :) 20:50:18 -!- Reawakening_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:58 it doesn't affect me, i can't see it! 20:52:33 best buddy Sigmund, it's quite a sight 20:53:13 has this been "fixed" in trunk, assuming there's a sense it needs to be fixed: 20:53:24 You climb downwards. You hear the hiss of flowing sand. There is an entrance to an ossuary on this level. Hurry and find it before the portal is buried! You hear the sound of rushing water. There is an entrance to a sewer on this level. Hurry and find it before the portal rusts away! 20:53:37 sometimes its "fun" rushing to get both 20:53:47 by 90% of the tiem yuo just have no chance at the second portal and its unfun 20:53:50 *but 20:53:52 -!- Reawakening has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:53:53 rast: several timed portal vaults on a level is considered okay 20:53:53 it is a bug if you get a message about an oubliette 20:54:09 the alleged bug is two portal vaults on the same dungeon level 20:54:18 gammafunk: these should be timed in the future 20:54:20 I can't imagine you could ever have a chance at doing both portals now that the timers are shortened 20:54:27 ugh 20:54:35 if you have ?map it's quite easy 20:54:35 minmay: I did both ice cave and volcano very recently 20:54:49 doable with ctele I guess 20:54:56 no ctele was involved 20:55:00 ive done both before 20:55:01 and yes no ctele 20:55:11 simmarine: agreed, no ctele 20:55:12 Psychology at work: getting 20$ as a gift and having to give $10 back makes people actually much unhappier than getting $5 as a gift :) 20:55:13 did you have regen or really great defenses? 20:55:22 dpeg that's right 20:55:28 definitely does have an element of randomness whether or not you can do both though 20:55:40 it was a very short ice cave 20:55:50 the statue portal one 20:55:50 oh, one of those. OK 20:57:00 the messages come 100 turns apart, right? 20:57:11 just entered the ossuary at about the turn 120 mark 20:57:37 %git :/portal vaults announced 20:57:38 07MarvinPA02 * 0.14-a0-2793-g86a1cb9: Shorten most portal vault timers, remove the secondary very short LOS timer 10(1 year, 2 months ago, 7 files, 21+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86a1cb916bb4 20:57:55 is there a way to actually see that commit online anymore 20:58:41 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:05 see it online? 20:59:10 comes up fine here 20:59:21 oh, it's coming up *now* 20:59:28 anyway looks like ossuaries and sewers are 600-800 now too 21:00:00 so being able to complete two non-bazaar portals sounds awfully rare to me, I've certainly never encountered it 21:00:41 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-703-gfd9b2dd: Preliminary description for oubliettes. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fd9b2dd98460 21:01:02 i would like only one vault per level 21:01:06 *portal per level 21:01:25 chequers: could also add up durations 21:01:28 like rast says, it's not Fun 21:01:49 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:08 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:42 i can get both portals like 50% of the time 21:03:15 so the best player has a 50% success rate 21:03:23 heh 21:03:26 ah, chequers 21:03:31 !won DrKe 21:03:32 DrKe has won 162 times in 2328 games (6.96%): 4xHuFE 2xDDBe 2xDDGl 2xDgFE 2xGrBe 2xHOFi 2xHaAs 2xHuNe 2xKoFi 2xMiBe 2xMiFE 2xSpEn 2xTrMo 2xVpIE 1xCeAK 1xCeBe 1xCeCK 1xCeEn 1xCeFE 1xCeFi 1xDDAs 1xDDCj 1xDDEE 1xDDFE 1xDDFi 1xDDHu 1xDECj 1xDEEE 1xDEFE 1xDgAM 1xDgAs 1xDgEE 1xDgEn 1xDgFi 1xDgIE 1xDgVM 1xDjFE 1xDrAs 1xDrCK 1xDrCj 1xDrFE 1xDrNe 1xDrWz 1xDsDK 1xDsFE 1xDsFi 1xDsMo 1xDsNe 1xDsTm 1xDsVM 1xFe... 21:03:43 i mean you need to map it 21:03:44 so the best player has a <7% success rate 21:03:57 at this mini-benchmark! sheesh 21:04:01 that depends on your definition of success 21:04:33 hm 21:04:47 i assumed "Oubliette" started with a consonant, like "Oui"? 21:04:53 * wheals doesn't actually know french 21:04:53 <|amethyst> no 21:04:56 <|amethyst> ooh 21:05:14 <|amethyst> oobly et 21:05:16 it comes from oubliere 21:05:19 or something like that 21:05:27 which means forgotten 21:05:28 what does "Oubli" mean in French? 21:05:29 did you forget where it comes from 21:05:32 because its a hole in the ground they drop you in 21:05:36 and then you starve to death 21:05:36 <|amethyst> oublier is to forget, yes 21:05:37 gammafunk: Oblivion 21:05:38 i've been pronouncing it... wrong all my life...... 21:05:44 dpeg: cool 21:05:44 <|amethyst> yeah, cognate with oblivion 21:05:51 j'oublie tout... 21:06:00 I think that's cooler than an abbreviation. 21:06:04 <|amethyst> je me souviens 21:06:05 n1k: did maud do that to you 21:06:17 ouais 21:06:24 good quebecois jokes 21:06:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:58 <|amethyst> I like 'oubliette', but I kind of like 'Gaol' too 21:07:00 |amethyst: hrm, seems my save compat in the oubliette branch is not working great 21:07:17 |amethyst: a game I transfer gives me a prompt about the branch depth when trying to wiz travel there 21:07:34 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ah 21:07:47 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-704-gf72a8f6: Add TODO. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 15+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f72a8f6ee353 21:07:54 |amethyst: yeah and no such prompt from a new game 21:07:55 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, I guess that's stored in the save, but why would it restore with a number? 21:07:59 |amethyst: I asked around but got no suggestions, so I stuck with the original name. 21:08:17 <|amethyst> "oubliette" sound cooler anyway :) 21:08:26 oubliette, gentille oubliette, oubliette, je te plumierai 21:08:34 |amethyst: the other problem is it just doesn nothing regardless of what I enter as my destination 21:08:43 *destination level 21:09:25 I'll have to look at this later 21:09:26 nicolae-, terrible XD 21:09:43 indeed. 21:09:45 <|amethyst> gammafunk: might need to explicitly enlarge it in tag_read_you_dungeon 21:09:58 ok, will keep that in mind 21:10:01 <|amethyst> gammafunk: or, rather, to initialise the things that weren't in the save from the branch data 21:10:07 <|amethyst> gammafunk: brdepth, brentry, etc 21:10:22 <|amethyst> gammafunk: that should probably be a loop 21:10:27 question with git 21:10:28 wonder what happens when I take the d:2 portal 21:10:31 oh yeah, that stuff is created at the start of the game 21:10:39 has the crawl branch been shifted over to the new server yet 21:10:48 <|amethyst> gammafunk: after the current for (int j = 0; j < count; ++j) loop, another: for (int j = count; j < NUM_BRANCHES; ++j) 21:10:52 ERROR in 'dungeon.cc' at line 284: ASSERT failed: you.depth of 1 out of range 0 + 1 (1) .. brdepth[you.where_are_you] + 1 (1) 21:10:59 |amethyst: what I get when I take the portal on d:2 21:11:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, the branch depth is zero 21:11:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: because it was never initialised 21:11:27 alright, sounds fairly easy to fix 21:11:48 and if so, how do I make git redirect to the new server 21:12:01 this is important; I want to try and dust off my vault-making "skills" for the new portal vault 21:12:22 god, if only this code didn't have so many #if TAG_MAJORs... 21:12:42 <|amethyst> Lightli: git config remote.origin.url https://github.com/crawl/crawl.git 21:13:09 <|amethyst> Lightli: you can still pull from gitorious for the time being, but better to go ahead and switch to github 21:14:11 new portal vault needs a frontpage update for the 'viewing' page 21:14:21 |amethyst: this entire loop, should it be inside a TAG_MAJOR? 21:14:43 I guess not 21:14:53 since it'd be usefull with any major version 21:15:17 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.1/20150402191859]] 21:15:43 dpeg already booted me over laughing about this, but i really think it's funny to put things into the "oubliette" 21:16:01 * dpeg is alive and kicking! 21:16:10 what's funny about the word oubliette 21:16:14 there's nothing funny about scrambled eggs 21:16:22 lol 21:16:44 ProzacElf: do you speak German? The word "Hungerturm" is pretty evocative. (I have absolutely no idea how "oubliette" sounds to a native English speaker.) 21:17:17 dpeg: very little, but oubliette is French 21:17:20 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:29 ProzacElf: obviously so :) 21:17:35 well, it was borrowed from french into english, i think it counts as english now 21:17:40 french sounds funny to some 21:17:48 I guess went into English like "motte"? 21:17:50 i feel like most americans wouldn't even have heard the term 21:18:01 hungerturm has the specific connotation of starving, though 21:18:01 dpeg: english is basically like the borg. 21:18:01 well, yeah, but it basically means "forgetting hole" 21:18:01 while i guess in oubliette you wouldnt necessarily starve 21:18:05 they might toss you down rotting meet 21:18:07 meAt 21:18:10 lower your shields, we will add your cultural and linguistic distinctiveness to our own 21:18:10 ProzacElf: this is exactly what it was 21:18:14 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:18:28 that was why i was laughing at it 21:18:44 not that i had any problem with what you guys were doing 21:19:00 just that you chose to put it in that way 21:19:07 to the extent that English speakers know it, it means "bathroom" >.> 21:19:11 ...have you never heard the term oubliette before 21:19:22 he probably has, but forgot about it 21:19:27 zing 21:19:33 me? 21:19:41 yes 21:19:50 i don't remember =P 21:19:52 ProzacElf: sorry I was so pissed before... couldn't do SUBVAULTS and Dowan rescues Duvessa, facing unsurmountable technical obstacles instead. (Including inability to operate emacs on another client.) 21:20:11 lol, like i said, no worries man 21:20:49 as long as you've got no hard feelings i don't either 21:21:11 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:11 no, not at all 21:21:20 so youve agreed to forgive and forget 21:21:39 i think we've had enough conversations for you to not think i'm a complete asshole =) 21:22:50 slave (16p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 18-37 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 129 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:22:50 %??slave 21:22:59 human (15p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 22-43 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 194 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:22:59 %??human 21:23:25 the slaves have less hd than regular humans? 21:23:28 that's funny 21:23:52 they dont get fed as much 21:23:59 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:10 yeah, but they're a lot more likely to murder you 21:24:12 or prolonged being under Pikel's spell damaged them 21:24:27 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:32 it rendered their brains incapable of using weapons too apparently 21:24:44 heh, i do still love that enslaving pikel will free them 21:25:31 best use of an early enslave wand 21:26:08 i mean, i guess if you know the spell, that's cool too 21:26:33 but if you know that spell, you're already a good enough enchanter that it shouldn't matter much 21:26:47 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:48 pikel is a pretty good enchanter apparently 21:27:00 but he chooses to hit things with a whip 21:27:24 rip spell 21:27:24 lol, stealing his whip is surprisingly good 21:27:30 a lot of the time 21:27:42 what? enslavement is going away? 21:28:20 did en/am get any other spell to replace it 21:28:23 i missed that commit 21:28:51 en got tukima's, am got gell's 21:28:59 i mean, invis was kind of ridiculous 21:29:02 tukima's was a good choice 21:29:11 ive never used gells 21:29:21 that reminds me, wheals 21:29:26 so i can live with that being in a weird book 21:29:28 what do you think about DrFi starting with boots and gloves 21:30:21 but i really think En need enslavement in the starting book 21:30:23 i'd be willing to remove it 21:30:36 opfi does without!! 21:30:37 it seems really arbitrary to me, since DrCK gets nothing to make up for not having +2 leather, opfi doesnt get a hat, etc 21:30:42 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:47 and its like the only special case left apparently 21:31:03 -!- DeceasedCrab has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 21:31:09 felids i think but they're felids 21:31:14 hah 21:31:25 ProzacElf: the spell itself was removed because the devs didn't want unlimited access to a spell that's better than murder 21:31:48 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:52 nicolae-: it's totally gone? 21:31:59 yerp 21:32:06 the wand is still around 21:32:08 nicolae-: nothing could possibly be better than murder. 21:32:09 there was some discussion about making it level 7 instead 21:32:14 but i think removing it is better 21:32:46 is there at least some replacement? 21:32:57 tukima's is a good replacement for en 21:32:59 early tukima + spellpower boost means that spell will see more use hopefully 21:33:02 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:33:12 tukimas didnt really have a role with enslavement existing 21:33:17 like, at all 21:33:21 it was just a funny spell to use if you want to be quirky 21:33:28 ugh, is tukima at least useable? 21:33:46 i like this is_deck in newgame_make_item 21:33:49 i liked it, but you always had to be funky to use it at all 21:33:59 do you know how it works now 21:33:59 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: it now targets monsters 21:34:07 if a monster has a weapon it makes a dancing weapon out of their weapon 21:34:08 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: it decimates orc 21:34:08 which attacks it 21:34:14 <|amethyst> because axes 21:34:17 hmm 21:34:25 that's cool tbh 21:34:29 tukima also has a spellpower boost which makes it stronger than other similar hexes 21:34:29 <|amethyst> and it has an innate power boost 21:34:38 <|amethyst> hi 21:34:44 :v 21:35:22 i gotta be honest, it sucked for a long time though 21:35:31 * wheals still has nightmares about the implementation 21:36:22 i remember the days when i threw weapons at dudes and then cast tukima's 21:37:35 its funny to watch a warlord punch out his own weapon 21:37:49 i prefer that to carrying around junk 21:37:58 will they pick their weapons back up again if they punch them out 21:38:14 i doubt it because of mon_pickup 21:38:27 yeah i know they don't pick up things the player has seen but i wondered if there was a special case 21:39:41 no 21:39:50 yeah, why not just raise enslavement's level 21:40:04 (although to 7 sounds a bit insane; haste is level 6) 21:40:57 5 wouldnt be sufficient 21:41:05 6 would make it weird in the starting books 21:41:47 at least, i think so 21:42:08 and idk what other books it was even in 21:42:19 it doesn't have to be in a starting book if that's the issue 21:42:32 what other book was it in though 21:42:36 AM 21:42:37 ?/enslavement 21:42:37 Matching terms (2): enslavement, wand_of_enslavement; entries (10): book_of_control[1] | book_of_debilitation[1] | book_of_maledictions[1] | control_undead[1] | hexes[2] | list_of_spells_by_school[7] | ncrawl[1] | scroll_of_vulnerability[3] | wand_of_enslavement[1] | wands[2] 21:42:48 control, i guess 21:43:07 AM and En starting books, + Control 21:43:35 If enslavement is too strong of an effect to have as a spell at all, what does that say for haste then? Or invisibility? 21:43:50 haste might get removed too... 21:44:01 i think hastewand is more problematic than the spell 21:44:20 remove both? 21:44:22 and you saw what happened to invis 21:45:06 can it happen that CHANCE: 10000 maps don't get placed? 21:45:06 didn't it's effectiveness get cut to a 5th of what it once was? 21:45:16 dpeg: Yes, if there's nowhere for it to be placed 21:45:31 DrKe; In that case, what about the invis wand 21:45:49 i dont know, i use haste more than i use invis 21:45:54 but the same situation exists i suppose 21:46:38 though there is more benefit to getting spellpower on hexes 21:47:00 with haste, you just want some low level charms and haste, so if you have the wand you dont need that much charms 21:47:33 also the spell is p. rare 21:47:39 as is the wand 21:47:49 the wand is a lot less rare than the spell now 21:47:56 with wizardry, the spell was probably more common 21:48:02 yeah 21:48:16 should haste go into a second spellbook again? 21:48:33 Resist mutation not fully displayed 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9652 by BTA 21:48:33 definitely not 21:49:26 yeah i dont think that will ever happen 21:49:49 even with the wand thing 21:50:02 wonder if there's some good way to convey that it 21:50:03 just because the wand is good doesnt make the spell bad 21:50:12 's only 60% as effective 21:50:21 (god the wait for trunk to rebuild is annoying) 21:50:31 didn't rmut amulet used to be 80% because of a bug or something 21:50:37 yeah 21:50:38 66% isnt far off from that 21:50:42 it accidentally checked twice 21:50:45 so you could just have it put a + anyway 21:51:22 rMut+++...? 21:51:59 although renaming it from mutation resistance X would probably be better? 21:52:05 do undead get rmut(infinity symbol) 21:52:51 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.1/20150402191859]] 21:53:04 no because malmutation still has an effect on them (rotting) 21:53:20 do you get it if you have level 3 mut 21:53:28 mutation inertia?/ 21:53:40 you.mutation[MUT_MUTATION_RESISTANCE] = 66; 21:53:45 my local version does not see oubliette.des anymore??? 21:53:48 i will just check that in wizmode 21:53:56 dpeg: sure you're on the right branch? 21:54:07 yes 21:54:46 -!- jaxry has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:54:46 yeah the level 3 mut resistance mut displays as rMut+ 21:55:20 if one of you can pull the branch and see whether it can place the map, that'd be cool 21:55:32 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-705-g39f467b: Trying to add a timer. 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 63+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39f467bd218b 21:56:20 how did you edit the file it it doesn't see the file?? 21:56:49 I mean that &L "ossuary" will find maps, but &L "oublie" will not. 21:57:13 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:57:26 Strange to me, because I've been in there before. 21:57:50 dpeg: use &L portal_oublie 21:57:51 perhaps delete saves/des and try again 21:58:00 oublie wouldn't match a single map 21:58:09 since the dest map also has that string 21:58:13 i'd expect it to give a partial match for oubliette_test? 21:58:19 yeah 21:58:28 dpeg: I'd use &P portal_oublie 21:58:34 regen the level 21:58:49 Can't find map named 'portal_oublie'. 21:59:03 then you don't have the new des loaded 21:59:07 did you restart crawl? 21:59:34 wheals: can I rm saves/des/* ? 21:59:50 restarting all the time 21:59:52 maybe 21:59:53 shouldn't need to do that 22:00:01 -!- Nobuharu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00:07 <|amethyst> when in doubt, do so :) 22:00:18 <|amethyst> it certainly doesn't hurt to remove it while crawl isn't running 22:00:19 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:20 ??cache 22:00:21 cache[1/1]: There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors. 22:01:10 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:01:12 dpeg: also, it's a good idea to make a complete commit title for anything that you're going to push, e.g. "Add an Oubliette timer" would be a better commit title 22:01:40 since others are reading these commits and it'll be clearer than it is to you reading your local ones 22:01:47 <|amethyst> eh, this can all be rebased and squashed before going into trunk 22:01:54 well it can but then it's more work! 22:01:56 <|amethyst> :) 22:02:09 |amethyst: besides, we didn't really do that for Ru 22:03:13 not saying it to be pedantic, just dpeg may not be used to working on public branches like this 22:03:30 gammafunk: yes, thanks 22:05:19 found it, I get a low score on syntax 22:05:58 03gammafunk02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-706-gcf3383f: Initialize data for the branches missing from a save 10(39 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf3383f2b459 22:06:03 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:15 I don't know if that's the best one, nor if it should be cherry-picked to trunk 22:06:17 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:06:26 whoo. i made an unrand and it works. this must be how god felt. 22:10:20 -!- Fusha has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: IMO it can be added when the branch is 22:11:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it won't be necessary until then 22:12:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: since nothing under TAG_MAJOR_VERSION 34 (or transferrable 33) has fewer NUM_BRANCHES than now 22:12:38 <|amethyst> because depths went into a BRANCH_UNUSED slot that had originally been planned for Hive portal 22:12:49 <|amethyst> as I think wheals(?) pointed out earlier 22:13:34 I thought they were talking about the slot that had originally been Hive and renamed Void 22:13:39 <|amethyst> yeah 22:13:43 <|amethyst> that was BRANCH_UNUSED 22:13:50 <|amethyst> it had "Void" as its name 22:15:48 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:31 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:01 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:29 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-706-g4a62df9: Properly enable Oubliette timers. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4a62df925e6c 22:19:29 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-707-gc47dde7: Highlight Oubliette timer messages. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c47dde723881 22:19:29 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-709-g72ace36: Merge branch 'oubliette' of gitorious.org:crawl/crawl into oubliette 10(47 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/72ace36bc149 22:20:09 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:26 er 22:23:40 not good? 22:23:56 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.1/20150402191859]] 22:23:57 dpeg: did you run git pull 22:24:00 to make that last commit? 22:24:08 yes, because I couldn't push 22:24:19 hrm, wonder if you're configured to rebase by default 22:24:24 or is that only in trunk 22:24:27 what would have been the proper command? 22:24:30 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:45 ah it's master only 22:24:46 git pull ; git rebase ; git push 22:24:49 git pull --rebase is what you actually almost always want 22:24:59 thx 22:25:04 I'll try to remember 22:25:05 of git pull --ff 22:25:39 dpeg: no big deal though, that'll go away when we actually merge 22:25:44 since we'll rebase it 22:28:19 `git config --global branch.autosetuprebase always` will make it so that --rebase is the default for new branches, and `git config branch..rebase true` will reconfigure branches that already exist 22:29:47 dpeg: yeah recommend running: git config branch.oubliette.rebase true 22:29:57 dpeg: and also that first command that doy listed for all future branches 22:30:39 !lm * br.enter=wizlab milestone~~lehudib / !won 22:30:40 6/11 milestones for * (br.enter=wizlab milestone~~lehudib): N=6/11 (54.55%) 22:31:12 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab s=milestone / !won 22:31:13 2696/5561 milestones for * (recent br.enter=wizlab): 282/571x entered Zonguldrok's Shrine. [49.39%], 281/586x entered Wucad Mu's Monastery. [47.95%], 274/572x entered The Roulette of Golubria. [47.90%], 262/516x entered Eringya's Formal Garden. [50.78%], 260/520x entered Iskenderun's Mystic Tower. [50.00%], 256/563x entered Cigotuvi's Fleshworks. [45.47%], 253/546x entered Doroklohe's Tomb. [46.34... 22:31:27 wow 22:31:31 -!- memories has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:38 people really die that much xl19+? 22:32:34 !lm * recent xl>=19 / won 22:33:06 443420/734023 milestones for * (recent xl>=19): N=443420/734023 (60.41%) 22:33:27 !lm devteamnp recent xl>=19 / won 22:33:31 6835/8217 milestones for devteamnp (recent xl>=19): N=6835/8217 (83.18%) 22:33:42 !lm devteamnp recent xl>=19 s=name / won 22:33:44 6835/8217 milestones for devteamnp (recent xl>=19): 1864/2086x Lasty [89.36%], 1351/1357x elliptic [99.56%], 838/893x Medar [93.84%], 744/975x MarvinPA [76.31%], 385/504x PleasingFungus [76.39%], 351/527x gammafunk [66.60%], 333/434x SGrunt [76.73%], 268/472x dpeg [56.78%], 186/277x doy [67.15%], 175/271x wheals [64.58%], 157/164x ontoclasm [95.73%], 102/132x bh [77.27%], 57/85x reaverb [67.06%], ... 22:34:06 !lm devteamnp recent xl>=19 char!=Hesu|heie|desu|deie|mibe s=name / won 22:34:08 6805/8060 milestones for devteamnp (recent xl>=19 char!=Hesu|heie|desu|deie|mibe): 1864/2086x Lasty [89.36%], 1351/1357x elliptic [99.56%], 838/893x Medar [93.84%], 714/945x MarvinPA [75.56%], 385/431x PleasingFungus [89.33%], 351/473x gammafunk [74.21%], 333/434x SGrunt [76.73%], 268/472x dpeg [56.78%], 186/277x doy [67.15%], 175/271x wheals [64.58%], 157/164x ontoclasm [95.73%], 102/132x bh [77.... 22:35:04 !blame2 gammafunk 22:35:05 gggaaammmmmmaaafffuuunnnkkk 22:35:22 small numbers of games 22:35:44 -!- aarujn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:35:49 I blame figuring out how to orb ninja 22:36:12 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:28 hmmm... are there any sequell commands with no vowels in them 22:36:55 !cmd 22:36:55 !cmd: Define custom command: `!cmd ` to define, `!cmd -rm ` to delete, `!cmd ` to query, `!cmd -ls` to list. 22:37:16 !rng nicolae- gammafunk 22:37:16 The RNG chooses: nicolae-. 22:37:20 !blame2 !cmd -ls 22:37:21 !!!cccmmmddd 22:37:27 !blame3 !cmd -ls 22:37:28 !cmd 22:37:30 aw 22:37:32 nuts 22:37:45 i knew that wouldn't work, but i dared to dream. 22:37:49 !lg * recent xl>=19 / won 22:37:50 8618/20818 games for * (recent xl>=19): N=8618/20818 (41.40%) 22:38:02 !lg devteamnp recent xl>=19 / won 22:38:03 213/287 games for devteamnp (recent xl>=19): N=213/287 (74.22%) 22:38:16 !lg devteamnp recent xl>=19 s=name o=% / won 22:38:18 213/287 games for devteamnp (recent xl>=19): 50/51x elliptic [98.04%], 18/20x MarvinPA [90.00%], 26/30x Medar [86.67%], 4/5x ontoclasm [80.00%], 63/81x Lasty [77.78%], 9/12x PleasingFungus [75.00%], 3/5x bh [60.00%], 6/10x doy [60.00%], 15/25x gammafunk [60.00%], 1/2x reaverb [50.00%], 5/11x SGrunt [45.45%], 7/18x dpeg [38.89%], 5/13x wheals [38.46%], 1/3x neil [33.33%], 0/1x Keskitalo [0.00%] 22:38:42 hey no speedruns man 22:39:07 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:39:07 !kw gfspeed char!=heie|hesu|deie|desu|mibe 22:39:08 Defined keyword: gfspeed => char!=heie|hesu|deie|desu|mibe 22:39:23 -!- doubt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:58 !lg devteamnp recent !gfspeed xl>=19 s=name o=% / won 22:39:58 1/5 games for devteamnp (recent !gfspeed xl>=19): 1/1x MarvinPA [100.00%], 0/1x PleasingFungus [0.00%], 0/3x gammafunk [0.00%] 22:40:01 hah 22:40:07 oh 22:40:15 !kw gfspeed char=heie|hesu|deie|desu|mibe 22:40:16 Defined keyword: gfspeed => char=heie|hesu|deie|desu|mibe 22:40:19 !lg devteamnp recent !gfspeed xl>=19 s=name o=% / won 22:40:20 212/282 games for devteamnp (recent !gfspeed xl>=19): 50/51x elliptic [98.04%], 17/19x MarvinPA [89.47%], 26/30x Medar [86.67%], 9/11x PleasingFungus [81.82%], 4/5x ontoclasm [80.00%], 63/81x Lasty [77.78%], 15/22x gammafunk [68.18%], 6/10x doy [60.00%], 3/5x bh [60.00%], 1/2x reaverb [50.00%], 5/11x SGrunt [45.45%], 7/18x dpeg [38.89%], 5/13x wheals [38.46%], 1/3x neil [33.33%], 0/1x Keskitalo [0... 22:40:51 !lg devteamnp recent !gfspeed !boring xl>=19 s=name o=% / won 22:40:52 212/278 games for devteamnp (recent !gfspeed !boring xl>=19): 50/51x elliptic [98.04%], 17/19x MarvinPA [89.47%], 26/30x Medar [86.67%], 15/18x gammafunk [83.33%], 9/11x PleasingFungus [81.82%], 4/5x ontoclasm [80.00%], 63/81x Lasty [77.78%], 3/5x bh [60.00%], 6/10x doy [60.00%], 1/2x reaverb [50.00%], 5/11x SGrunt [45.45%], 7/18x dpeg [38.89%], 5/13x wheals [38.46%], 1/3x neil [33.33%], 0/1x Kesk... 22:41:05 dats rite 22:41:14 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:39 .phyte 22:41:48 3. casual the Peltast (L19 NaIE of Cheibriados), demolished by a shambling mangrove on Swamp:4 (nicolae_swamp_phyte_club) on 2015-04-15 07:04:22, with 236224 points after 43558 turns and 2:38:53. 22:41:54 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:01 -!- mong has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:03 !lg goodplayers recent xl>=19 / won 22:42:05 filthy casuals! 22:42:11 5696/9433 games for goodplayers (recent xl>=19): N=5696/9433 (60.38%) 22:42:20 !lg greatplayers recent xl>=19 / won 22:42:21 2881/3860 games for greatplayers (recent xl>=19): N=2881/3860 (74.64%) 22:43:11 so are there any non-god sources of permanent allies left? 22:43:20 I guess mercenary card? 22:43:59 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:44:08 maybe enslavement on a monster with Animate Dead 22:44:22 I think that spell is disabled for friendlies now 22:44:38 yeah, because su could summon a shadow imp for a ghetto animate dead 22:45:04 thought it might just be blocked for summons 22:45:07 even mercs are technically only durable summons, not that this matters 22:45:33 but yeah this version has had a lot of nerfs to the player from what I've seen 22:45:48 gotta make up for all the double damage wins 22:46:19 I predict winrates will plummet 22:46:50 Ne nerfs, En nerfs... 22:47:07 Be nerf (less piety due to no corpse sacrifices) 22:47:14 At least IE hasn't been nerfed yet? 22:47:19 somebody on tavern predicted starvation would go up. I like my food but removing it just means people die from misusing it, not from actually starving 22:47:33 <|amethyst> you realise Trog gives more kill piety to compensate? 22:47:43 oh 22:47:45 freeze was nerfed 22:47:51 DrKe: True 22:48:15 it doesnt feel like any of the gods who lost sacs were actually compensated 22:48:19 i mean they were mostly compensated 22:48:29 but in all cases it feels moderately slower 22:48:41 that was the intent, it seems 22:48:43 not that it is really an issue since those gods had great piety gain anyways 22:48:45 except oka 22:48:48 if I don't have faith I've found okawaru very painful since the bigger revamp 22:49:05 maybe oka specifically needs an adjustment 22:49:05 with lesser experience with the recent changes, finding it slower with the others too 22:49:14 I think trog is ok 22:49:22 trog was hurt by it but he's trog 22:49:23 wait, how come animate dead also only is temporary now? I understand animate skeleton being temporary (that direly needed a nerf), but animate dead requires actual investment 22:49:27 yeah 22:49:31 !lm . mibe 22:49:32 166. [2015-04-16 04:33:42] gammafunk the Severer (L12 MiBe of Trog) fell down a shaft to Lair:5 on turn 7726. (Lair:3) 22:49:49 getting ammo gifts feels a bit more painful now too 22:49:51 Trog piety still is ridiculously high even with the nerf :v 22:50:00 or an off-skill weapon, etc 22:50:18 !lg * s=cv cv!~- o=% / won 22:50:22 14063/2360321 games for * (cv!~-): 2054/132708x 0.16 [1.55%], 1822/218790x 0.15 [0.83%], 888/112302x 0.12 [0.79%], 1060/139081x 0.14 [0.76%], 934/140177x 0.13 [0.67%], 1412/243060x 0.10 [0.58%], 1121/213549x 0.11 [0.52%], 435/84396x 0.3 [0.52%], 727/153796x 0.4 [0.47%], 896/190444x 0.9 [0.47%], 647/144721x 0.8 [0.45%], 680/179656x 0.7 [0.38%], 859/241184x 0.5 [0.36%], 149/42390x 0.2 [0.35%], 62/17... 22:50:24 too bad I'm stuck with this last, unwinnable combo for greaterplayer 22:50:35 what combo is that 22:50:36 !lm gammafunk 22:50:37 13889. [2015-04-18 19:48:14] gammafunk the Caller (L7 HESu of Sif Muna) became a worshipper of Sif Muna on turn 3223. (Temple) 22:50:41 gammafunk: oka piety still seems plenty fast to me, and I've been using oka a lot recently 22:50:44 !greaterplayer 22:50:45 !greatplayer 22:50:49 -!- Thelo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:50:50 Unwon backgrounds for gammafunk: Berserker 22:50:52 Unwon species for gammafunk: Minotaur 22:50:53 nicolae-: unwinnable 22:51:06 eh i dont know ive won that combo before 22:51:06 elliptic: ok, I'd defer to your experience then :) 22:51:12 !lg * s=cv cv!~- !meleebug o=% / won 22:51:15 but i am one of the best players after all 22:51:18 12833/2308537 games for * (cv!~- !meleebug): 824/80924x 0.16 [1.02%], 1822/218790x 0.15 [0.83%], 888/112302x 0.12 [0.79%], 1060/139081x 0.14 [0.76%], 934/140177x 0.13 [0.67%], 1412/243060x 0.10 [0.58%], 1121/213549x 0.11 [0.52%], 435/84396x 0.3 [0.52%], 727/153796x 0.4 [0.47%], 896/190444x 0.9 [0.47%], 647/144721x 0.8 [0.45%], 680/179656x 0.7 [0.38%], 859/241184x 0.5 [0.36%], 149/42390x 0.2 [0.35%... 22:51:20 it might be beyond your expertise 22:51:21 DrKe: you are *the* best 22:51:31 drke only wins dracs and kenku though 22:51:42 so even without meleebug, 0.16 has been quite easy for players, comparatively 22:51:46 i think some nerfs are in order 22:51:55 i have an agenda against drfi tho 22:51:56 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:00 return shard shrikes to D 22:52:19 !lg drke won s=crace 22:52:33 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:35 162 games for drke (won): 16x Human, 10x Deep Dwarf, 9x Hill Orc, 9x Demigod, 9x Ogre, 8x Gargoyle, 7x Demonspawn, 7x Kobold, 7x Vampire, 7x Minotaur, 6x Draconian, 6x Vine Stalker, 6x Troll, 6x High Elf, 6x Centaur, 5x Ghoul, 5x Formicid, 5x Tengu, 5x Spriggan, 4x Merfolk, 4x Mummy, 4x Halfling, 3x Lava Orc, 3x Deep Elf, 2x Naga, Djinni, Octopode, Felid 22:53:07 !lg * s=cv cv!~- !meleebug / won -graph 22:53:07 DrHu 22:53:10 -!- goldstarbrother has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:53:13 or HuKe? 22:53:13 12833/2308538 games for * (cv!~- !meleebug): https://shalott.org/graphs/96df1ee4b8a06f8302a122ef25a4953ade9f9cfd.html 22:53:28 !lg * s=cv cv!~- !meleebug o=cv / won -graph 22:53:34 undefined method `split' for nil:NilClass 22:53:41 HuKe for also being nonsensical 22:53:41 ...heh 22:54:12 Kitten Elementalist 22:54:40 dinosaur elementalist 22:55:06 ??imp 22:55:06 imp[1/1]: Did you mean {crimson imp}, {white imp}, {shadow imp}, {iron imp} or {imp species}? 22:55:26 @??imp 22:55:26 unknown monster: "imp" 22:55:27 ??imp species 22:55:27 imp species[1/2]: Player species Imp. Main feature is permanent teleportitis and a blink intrinsic, also little, demonic, assorted resistances/immunities, regen 1, shoutitis. Now playable as an experimental branch on CBRO! 22:55:31 @??crimson_imp 22:55:31 crimson imp (055) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-18 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Dam: 4 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fly, regen | Res: 06magic(40), 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 48 | Sp: blink [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:55:54 !hs * explbr=imp 22:55:56 permanent teleportitis seems like a really huge drawback 22:55:57 200. Stigandr the Acrobat (L27 ImHu of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-04-05 01:47:03, with 1617021 points after 89224 turns and 10:04:44. 22:56:08 you find amulet of stasis early on and have fun i guess 22:56:12 teleportitis is very different now 22:56:22 yeah, maybe the species is playable? 22:56:29 agentgt said he had fun with it 22:56:34 but he had fun with a lot of other weird experimental stuff 22:56:36 that change probably isn't rolled into the explbr probably 22:56:40 although I don't know if imp teleportitis would be the old kind or the new kind 22:56:41 yeah 22:56:47 (teleportitis) 22:56:50 probably the new kind 22:56:59 idk 22:57:21 the new kind would actually make them less bad to play without stasis, probably 22:57:37 fr: ballistomycete race 22:57:52 <|amethyst> no movement, only reproduction 22:57:52 the branch predates the teleport is change and I don't think it's been updated. 22:57:55 sounds baller 22:57:55 you explode! you die 22:58:07 they can have limited lives like fe 22:58:11 like you get 100 lives or so 22:58:17 okay, the basic infrastructure is there 22:58:19 or regenerating lives 22:58:21 thanks everyone who has helped! 22:58:50 03dpeg02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-710-g3331bd7: Using subvaults for Oubliette maps. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 82+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3331bd7c7e59 22:59:04 ??oubliette 22:59:04 I don't have a page labeled oubliette in my learndb. 22:59:07 I was just about to do that 22:59:24 ooh, new portal vault 22:59:48 !learn add oubliette Potential new early & timed portal vault, featuring an ally. 22:59:49 oubliette[1/1]: Potential new early & timed portal vault, featuring an ally. 22:59:52 for the real RP experience, play as a mummy or vampire and stay in the oubliette indefinitely! 23:00:10 G-Flex: there will be some roleplaying potential, don't worry. 23:00:10 i think you mean play as a race that can starve and die 23:00:16 or that, yes 23:00:30 does the ally depart after you leave the portal? 23:00:48 johnstein: it should, but right now it leaves the vault (which is not intended) 23:00:52 is it like the oubliette from Labyrinth? Do hands grope you menacingly as you fall into it? 23:01:10 G-Flex: is that a movie? I don't watch movies. 23:01:31 ??plan 23:01:31 plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans 23:01:33 it's a famously bad movie 23:01:40 FR new lipstick item to mark your way in the lab 23:01:42 maybe I should watch it after all! 23:01:45 bad? 23:01:49 <|amethyst> famously bad huh? 23:01:50 did you dare call it bad :( 23:02:07 -!- rchandra is now known as anon 23:02:12 you are dead to me 23:02:19 fill the frame with proper content will be quite some effort, but perhaps I can find people who want to help 23:02:36 -!- anon is now known as rchandra 23:03:04 dpeg: to help write subvaults? 23:03:12 why not just traditional vaults for the oubliette as well? 23:03:26 johnstein: well, yes. But most work will go into proper ally/monster pairings. 23:03:33 ... what does the Moon entry refer to in the dev plan? 23:03:35 I am extremely curious 23:03:40 G-Flex: The moon wizlab 23:03:46 ah 23:03:47 dpeg: ah. it sounds fun 23:03:52 that sounds neat 23:04:09 (in addition to the subvault system) 23:04:23 Lightli: I want a lot of randomisation. For example, the arrival vault could have the ally fighting some (tiny) monsters, so you enter the battle and help him out. Or he could be in a "prison" (room with a runed lock). etc 23:04:33 oh 23:05:12 dpeg: do you have a notes page or something outlining the vision? 23:05:30 but then again, some combinations of arrival and final vaults have to be fixed: if you get Dowan in the arrival vault as an ally, there has to be Duvessa in some cage in the final vault. 23:05:31 !git :/Portal 23:05:32 %git :/Portal 23:05:32 07tswett02 {PleasingFungus} * 0.15-b1-59-gdde0fa5: Change wording for magically/awkwardly throwing 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 8+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dde0fa586667 23:05:44 johnstein: sure, it's the top two pages of oubliette.des :) 23:05:53 git :/New portal 23:05:55 johnstein: help is appreciated 23:05:55 %git :/New portal 23:05:56 07dpeg02 {gammafunk} * 0.17-a0-701-g64936da: New portal vault: the Oubliette. 10(3 hours ago, 8 files, 152+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64936da5e7ff 23:06:05 johnstein: see oubliette.des 23:06:22 wait, square LOS is actually maybe happening? 23:06:30 I thought that was definitely not happening 23:06:47 definitely maybe happening 23:06:50 dpeg: gammafunk: thanks 23:06:51 i think the devteam has shifted enough to reconsider it 23:06:53 squarelos is already implemented, if you're not seeing it in your games, we need to delete your account 23:06:55 i, for one, am for it 23:06:56 and set up a new one 23:07:01 gammafunk: would it be prudent to ask on c-r-d for help with the ally staying inside the vault? That's a coding thing, so I couldn't do it myself anyway... 23:07:04 your old scores will be gone though 23:07:13 dpeg: sure, I think so :) 23:07:34 make it so that as you leave the oubliette you look behind you and your ally vanishes forever 23:08:00 "was it all just a dream?!?" 23:08:00 make the oubliette feel like some kind of French modernist movie, all in black and wite 23:11:09 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:11:45 use the lantern of shadows colors 23:13:51 dpeg: sounds like a really interesting concept. your idea? (ie are you both the commiter and the author of that commit) 23:14:33 well, he's not the committer... 23:14:57 the name in braces is the committer 23:15:04 never heard of him 23:15:12 he's the best summoner in crawl 23:15:30 eustachio? 23:15:33 haha 23:15:51 wow I can't read 23:15:56 i just found the best summoner in crawl, gammafunk's ghost 23:16:05 gammafunk: I see it now. oops 23:16:25 !lg * vmsg~~summoned s=ikiller 23:16:27 40375 games for * (vmsg~~summoned): 6431x Eustachio, 5561x the player character, 4849x Xom, 2275x an orc high priest, 1882x Natasha, 1500x the capriciousness of Xom, 1424x the rage of Trog, 1149x a deep elf demonologist, 1075x a ynoxinul, 1039x an orc sorcerer, 755x a lich, 654x Nergalle, 545x a silver statue, 525x an ancient lich, 421x a boggart, 419x a neqoxec, 412x a deep elf summoner, 388x a k... 23:16:36 it is indeed eustachio 23:17:06 !lm * rune recent sk=summoning 23:17:08 590. [2015-04-18 22:40:27] magipi the Summoner (L16 TeSu of Sif Muna) found a decaying rune of Zot on turn 37480. (Swamp:5) 23:17:30 johnstein: yes, my idea 23:17:34 !lm * rune recent sk=summoning o=-turns s=turns,name 23:17:36 590 milestones for * (rune recent sk=summoning): 7735 (gammafunk), 8230 (gammafunk), 8266 (gammafunk), 8341 (gammafunk), 8440 (gammafunk), 8616 (gammafunk), 8657 (gammafunk), 8699 (gammafunk), 8708 (gammafunk), 8749 (gammafunk), 8754 (gammafunk), 8760 (gammafunk), 8807 (gammafunk), 8872 (gammafunk), 8927 (gammafunk), 8969 (gammafunk), 9043 (gammafunk), 9107 (gammafunk), 9111 (gammafunk), 9165 (gam... 23:17:37 so if you encountered a unique in the oubli, they wouldn't spawn again as an enemy later? 23:17:44 look at it, so beautiful 23:18:12 johnstein: indeed -- you could stab that guy in the back before leaving, of course (but Crawl should properly keep track of that) 23:18:18 yeah 23:18:41 "thanks for helping me kill everything here pikel with that elec whip, now to murder your face in and steal it for myself" 23:19:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:21:14 heh. wonder if it wild be dumb to give you some partial XP at the end 23:21:30 but yea I get what you are saying 23:22:01 johnstein: of all the ideas I have, that's the one where I can contribute most beyond the initial idea (even if my helplessness today didn't show it). So I thought why not give it a go? New early portal vaults are very attractive, in my opinion, because they reach players who don't get far. 23:22:19 yea I agree 23:22:29 it is a fairly neat concept 23:22:32 alright, 6:20 am, gotta sleep... children will wake up in a few hours 23:22:41 yeah 23:22:57 !send bed dpeg 23:22:57 Sending dpeg to bed. 23:22:59 Permanent ally for a single portal vault 23:23:07 !send dpeg bed 23:23:07 Sending bed to dpeg. 23:23:09 oops 23:23:11 if you wanna help (with maps, or monster/ally pairings that make sense for a D:3-5 character or just comments on the concept), please !tell or mail. 23:23:22 more eventful than other portals 23:23:22 we have a lot of players in my group who don't get far so we announce all milestones for the same reason. fun for less experienced players 23:23:23 -!- dpeg is now known as dbed 23:23:28 I'm looking again at the 0.17 plan: "Redesign Badcharms (stoneskin &c, rmsl &c). Standing 'least bad' option is probably 'mp/time' costs, but that would require redesign of elementalist backgrounds" 23:23:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:23:39 has the possibility been considered of semi-permanent MP cost? 23:23:44 <|amethyst> working on the not-leaving thing now 23:23:48 dpeg I'll be thinking about it 23:23:51 you mean lowering permanent mp while you have it active 23:23:51 |amethyst: <3 23:23:57 DrKe: effectively yes 23:24:19 as in, having rmsl active requires you to sink 2MP (or 3, whatever level it is) into it for as long as it's active, and you only get that MP back when the spell ends 23:24:40 i think the mp should be lost 23:24:44 as in the mp you spend casting it 23:24:56 yes 23:25:10 but thats a decent idea for nerfing rmsl 23:25:21 so say you have 10/20 MP and cast the spell, now you have 8/18 MP 23:25:39 you could just make rmsl permanent in that case, i suppose, but thats too nice for characters that dont use their mp 23:25:42 what about ozo's 23:25:43 until the DUR runs out? 23:25:44 they need to be annoyed more 23:25:48 rmsl right now also might as well be permanent 23:25:57 %git charms-reform 23:25:57 07doy02 * 0.16-a0-3151-g99b4c99: make flight also use max mp 10(4 months ago, 4 files, 14+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/99b4c99c76b5 23:26:06 it still drops all the time and you have to recast it 23:26:08 that is part of why it is bad 23:26:08 same thing, but would it be permanent (outside of fire attacks hitting it) 23:26:23 not just it being powerful 23:26:24 situation is unfortunately quite complicated... some characters just don't care about maxMP 23:26:27 it is true that for some characters this might be too good 23:26:36 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-701-gb6462b4 (34) 23:26:44 I just won a transmuter, and there's an example of a sort of character that might have more MP than they need in general 23:26:55 most characters are like this 23:27:04 most characters that don't blast the hell out of things I guess 23:27:09 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 23:27:10 or blast them with summons 23:27:24 cannot use duration as a function of spellpower, obviously... success doesn't mean much (can use wiz for the one casting), so perhaps rMsl power... but even a little gain is worth it 23:28:04 previous discussion here http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20141214.log 23:28:06 for what it's worth 23:28:16 I like how that log opens with a massive netsplit 23:28:52 but yeah, generally speaking I think it makes sense for charms to be less annoying to keep up, but also have some kind of drawback to having them up all the time in the first place... but I'm sure this has been discussed to death, and the problem is coming up with a good solution 23:29:23 yup 23:29:58 i think spells like stoneskin and shroud are awful 23:30:00 max MP cost makes sense to me, but if the problem with that is "characters with too much MP" then I don't know /what/ a good solution is 23:30:03 but the classes that start with them benefit from having them 23:30:12 one thing that pleasingfungus brought up is that some charms already have a drawback to keep up, such as flight vs airstrike 23:30:19 yeah 23:30:32 well flight has very situational utility 23:30:47 rmsl and dmsl are better than they used to be, but have a problem in that they might as well just be permanent with no drawback since currently the only drawback is having to recast rarely 23:30:50 is flight really problematic 23:30:55 G-Flex: agreed... but I've come to believe that some effects (especially low level, small gains) don't work very well as spells. So I'd be willing to sacrifice them to Ru... but I am not adamant about it. Just wouldn't object to a more radical solution on the matter. 23:30:59 right, rmsl and dmsl are currently terrible 23:31:04 from a design perspective 23:31:05 doy: yes, those are good 23:31:18 because they are essentially free 23:31:25 (flight, swiftness are good, not rmsl :) 23:31:26 yes 23:31:36 swiftness now has a cooldown drawback, which is good 23:31:47 prevents you from just casting it all the damn time 23:32:21 i honestly think that rmsl/dmsl would be better going back to a timed thing 23:32:26 making low-level charms usage in general more situational and less categorically-positive could be good 23:32:28 G-Flex: one could also try to go through the buff spells, one by one, and give them the proper swiftness treatment. 23:32:33 like all of the rest of the ozo's/stoneskin/shroud/etc 23:32:34 they were less abusable when they were timed 23:32:41 because you dont take off your plate armour upon seeing an enemy 23:32:46 though you could just cast them all the time 23:32:52 which would be tedious and horrible 23:32:58 and is/was done 23:33:02 all the time 23:33:04 yeah 23:33:10 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:16 my recent OpTm was constantly casting stoneskin 23:33:17 but you at least had to get them castable enough 23:33:25 true, you couldn't do it at 50% failure 23:33:26 with permanent you can get them castable out of combat 23:33:57 -!- nonethousand is now known as Guest29656 23:34:05 if they use permanent MP, what about just making that MP cost greater? Or would that be too harsh on some characters? 23:34:16 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:34:35 if rmsl costs say 10mp it is hard to justify using it against anything that doesnt just spam ranged attacks, as a character that uses their mp 23:34:43 yeah 23:34:53 and as one that doesn't use their MP much, you'd just have it up permanently with little drawback 23:35:09 it would also disproportionally hit lower level characters 23:35:17 yes it would ruin AE 23:35:24 yeah 23:35:32 yeah 23:35:40 it's fair for that to be an advantage of characters that limit themselves by not using their mp :) 23:35:48 <|amethyst> could make spc decrease that cost 23:36:00 |amethyst: still problematic for low-XL characters 23:36:02 maybe 23:36:25 how good an idea would MP cost over time be, as mentioned in the plan document? 23:36:52 I like the idea at first glance but have to wonder how it would interact with MP regeneration 23:36:59 and how do you turn it off 23:37:14 that would be doable, we have that for evocable abilities 23:37:18 currently you cant turn off any buff style charms spells, though 23:37:25 currently! 23:37:38 that creates tedious optimization, tho 23:37:54 exit 23:37:59 -!- dbed has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:38:25 stoneskin was kind of annoying with chei statue form 23:38:28 recasting every few steps :p 23:38:44 mp cost over time would make charms really fiddly to use for characters that actually want to use their mp for other things 23:39:00 would the mp cost scale down with better spellpower 23:39:02 I agree 23:39:25 -!- Guest29656 is now known as n1k 23:39:26 I think the best solution, where feasible, is to give them actual drawbacks and/or make their use more situational in other ways 23:39:32 yeah 23:39:33 -!- n1k has quit [Changing host] 23:39:33 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:36 not that I know how you'd do that for some of them 23:39:42 that was where i ended up in the last conversation 23:39:44 like, what is a possible drawback to stoneskin? 23:39:52 the fact you have to recast it 23:39:57 -stealth 23:40:13 -stealth would be irrelevant for plenty of (possibly most?) characters using it though 23:40:16 the main drawback is in the player having to think about it 23:40:23 which should not actually matter in a turn based game 23:40:26 whereas something like -swift is relevant to basically everyone 23:40:28 but does 23:40:35 16:13:20 maybe the entire concept of no-downside charms is bad 23:40:35 and i dislike those spells 23:40:36 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:37 16:13:34 yes. 23:40:37 DrKe: it's annoying, and being annoying matters 23:40:56 its annoying enough that i wont use it unless its actually a large benefit 23:40:57 -stealth is relevant for almost all non-trog/qaz/axe 23:40:58 like ozo's 23:41:02 i wouldnt cast stoneskin without statue form 23:41:06 invisibility isn't a charms-school spell, but also has a drawback that is relevant to everyone 23:41:17 rchandra: axe? 23:41:28 the guy with the axe and the cpa 23:41:32 oh, that guy 23:41:47 even then, say you're one of those guys; the problem still exists for you 23:41:48 what abhout the agile light armor axe user 23:42:04 whereas -swift or contamination is relevant to absolutely everyone 23:42:07 in particular it's relevant for all EE 23:42:23 contam is only relevant if you have something else you need the contam for 23:42:28 what? 23:42:42 contam is relevant because if you cast invis twice in a row you're in trouble, no matter who you are 23:42:48 (twice or however many times you need to get yellow contam) 23:42:53 contam isn't so much a drawback as a rate limiter 23:42:54 well that's something else you need contam for 23:42:54 give stoneskin the armour restriction that ozo has as well, and give ozo rF- 23:42:56 related, but different 23:42:58 yeah, so you dont cast it twice 23:43:01 doy: yeah, which is also good 23:43:10 its not really a drawback yes 23:43:19 it's a drawback to casting it a lot :p 23:43:31 anyway, it solves the same sort of problem at least 23:43:51 contam on all charms is kind of interesting 23:43:57 contam is too punishing for fiddly effects like rmsl 23:44:09 I'm not suggesting using contam for all charms 23:44:20 each fight you have X contam you want to use, you decide which charms you can afford 23:44:37 contam would have to be more transparent then 23:44:37 rchandra: that would require the player can actively gauge that, which is currently difficult/impossible 23:44:44 yes 23:44:49 so you can actually prevent yourself from getting mutated over dodging 30% more arrows 23:45:05 or flying over a puddle of swamp water 23:45:07 also it might not be much of a drawback at all if you only cast a few low-level things and never have to worry about your contam getting high because of them 23:45:20 depending on how it's implemented, I guess 23:45:22 G-Flex: it does solve wanting them always up though 23:45:26 well like you said you migtw ant to cast it more than once in a row 23:45:29 oh right, if they're still duration-limited 23:45:33 makes sense 23:45:45 everything is duration limited except the msls 23:45:54 i dont imagine that other stuff will be made permanent 23:45:59 you'd definitely want the contam display to be much more granular 23:46:11 if this were implemented those spells could probably go back to being duration limited anyway 23:46:15 yeah, those would go back to old version 23:46:31 i think contam being uncertain is sort of a good thing though 23:46:45 in this case? it would become very frustrating 23:46:48 it doesn't need to be certain, but you need more information than you have now 23:46:50 in the current case 23:47:03 especially since there is no current distinction between "minimal" and "enough to malmutate you multiple times" 23:47:05 and i wouldnt want to take that way from how it currently works for stuff that uses it 23:47:13 er sorry, I mean only one degree of distinction 23:47:26 like you should not be able to know for sure if a casting of haste will give yellow contam 23:47:27 well, some things could certainly still give semi-random amounts of contam 23:47:30 unless you have no contam 23:47:42 that element of risk vs reward is good 23:47:55 the effects of contamination could also be reworked, I guess 23:47:57 if necessary 23:48:00 that wouldn't be a problem to preserve with mroe steps 23:48:20 for instance, perhaps there could be a level of contamination which can cause negative side-effects but which cannot permanently mutate you 23:48:21 i mean its already random, even if it were made transparent though, the amount of contam you get is random 23:48:26 you may miscast and then get a random amount of contam 23:48:29 assuming there's randomness in contam (which if there isn't, you could track as-is) 23:48:35 duration affects how much you are contaminated 23:48:50 being under other contaminating effects, etc 23:59:21 03|amethyst02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-711-g696c326: Add a no_stairs monspec tag. 10(2 minutes ago, 9 files, 33+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/696c32640db2 23:59:21 03|amethyst02 07[oubliette] * 0.17-a0-712-gf8d5b6a: Bind Oubliette allies in eternal incarceration. 10(79 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8d5b6af8ebc