00:00:06 <|amethyst> even before that commit, it did 00:00:11 <|amethyst> // first check for player poison: 00:00:11 <|amethyst> int ench = mons_has_ench( mon, ENCH_YOUR_POISON_I, ENCH_YOUR_POISON_IV ); 00:00:14 <|amethyst> if (ench != ENCH_NONE) 00:00:16 <|amethyst> strength += ench - ENCH_YOUR_POISON_I + 1; 00:00:32 that is... 00:00:42 <|amethyst> now it's just 00:00:45 I'm sorry, I'm just boggling at that code 00:00:47 <|amethyst> // First check for player poison. 00:00:47 <|amethyst> mon_enchant ench = mon->get_ench(ENCH_POISON); 00:00:47 <|amethyst> if (ench.ench != ENCH_NONE) 00:00:47 <|amethyst> strength += ench.degree; 00:01:28 <|amethyst> oh, nice comment in the current code 00:01:31 <|amethyst> // Strength is now the sum of both poison types 00:01:31 <|amethyst> // (although only one should actually be present at a given time). 00:01:34 hahaha 00:01:44 <|amethyst> nice assuming that green chunk creatures are poison-immune 00:02:09 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:02:31 The necromancer points at the skeletal warrior and mumbles some strange words._The skeletal warrior resists with almost no effort. 00:02:37 |amethyst: see anything wrong with http://sprunge.us/DcgF?diff 00:02:37 |amethyst: does it? 00:02:48 should they be trying to inner flame that sort of skeleton? 00:02:49 ooo, I didn't know ?diff existed 00:02:52 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the "only one should actually be present" 00:03:00 rchandra: I think they try it on all of their allies 00:03:01 I tested and a save with the cap. cutlass transfers ok 00:03:03 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: both will be present if you have a poisoned spider 00:03:26 there's that weird earlier minor tag 00:03:28 |amethyst: that comment is word-for-word left over from when ENCH_YOUR_POISON and ENCH_POISON existed 00:03:31 but it seems I have to make a new one? 00:03:42 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: not surprising :) 00:03:45 |amethyst: check the version in the commit you linked, 639fc9fa82e 00:03:48 hmmm 00:03:49 so I just made tags.cc use the new one 00:03:55 but kept the same block 00:04:17 <|amethyst> ohh 00:04:30 <|amethyst> "both poison types" as in both... 00:04:31 <|amethyst> wow 00:04:41 <|amethyst> how long since that comment has made sense? 00:04:44 subtyple 00:04:45 so i wonder how much balance would be thrown off if the "not confusable" check changed from MH_NONLIVING||MH_PLANT to I_PLANT 00:05:03 hrm 00:05:06 <|amethyst> doy: would be kind of bad for En I think 00:05:07 @??thorn_hunter 00:05:07 thorn hunter (16f) | Spd: 12 (swim: 120%) | HD: 15 | HP: 82-114 | AC/EV: 9/9 | Dam: 27, 23 | 03plant, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(100), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 2120 | Sp: v.thorns (3d18) [11!AM, 06!sil], w.brambles [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 00:05:10 |amethyst: yeah 00:05:13 <|amethyst> doy: though I guess they get enslavement 00:05:33 <|amethyst> doy: I'd make it (MH_NONLIVING||MH_PLANT) && I_PLANT 00:06:04 <|amethyst> but I guess that's not very principled 00:06:10 PleasingFungus: do you see any problem with that patch? if not I can push 00:06:52 I guess I should do one last grep for cutlass 00:06:57 oh, should I actually look at it 00:07:02 I was just admiring the colors 00:07:09 plz 00:07:23 well, the first problem is that it's still called the captain's cutlass 00:07:26 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:38 but that's ok! 00:07:48 since otherwise cutlasses don't exist 00:07:52 <|amethyst> "This rapier falls into the 'Short Blades' category." 00:07:52 also, you don't need the tag minor 00:07:55 and we have e.g. "arc blade" 00:08:02 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:13 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:20 can alphashops make unrands? 00:08:28 arc blade is ambiguous; a cutlass is "a short, broad sabre or slashing sword, with a straight or slightly curved blade sharpened on the cutting edge" 00:08:32 note the slashing and sharpened bits 00:09:06 well shortblades aren't shart? 00:09:09 *sharp 00:09:41 I thought it was themed at something about "hydra neck radii" 00:09:45 "sharpened cutting edge", the removal of which is the entire point of this change 00:09:47 <|amethyst> they're piercing 00:10:12 rename it. rename the cutlass & change any appropriate vaults. 00:10:17 also remove the minor tag. 00:10:22 then I will be content. 00:10:23 you spit the yak like a pig! 00:10:25 I'm not sure how accurate we can claim our weapons to be 00:10:28 when we have triple swords 00:10:30 tbqh 00:10:35 I'm not concerned about realism. 00:10:40 I'm concerned about not actively misleading players. 00:10:56 hi, resident sword expert and crawl expert here. short blades in crawl are definitely shart, even quick blades unless you are like a vs or its elec 00:10:59 "Can the captain's cutlass cut?" "Of course not." 00:11:18 especially since the whole point of this change is to stop misleading players 00:11:39 minmay: what's with the caveats on quick blades? 00:11:51 quick blades are actually good if you are like a vs or its elec 00:12:40 yeah I guess I don't see that it's misleading when you can see from the desc that it's a shortblade 00:12:49 renaming it to "captain's rapier" sounds pretty bad 00:12:57 but I'm open to suggestions I guess 00:12:58 we're not renaming it to the captain's rapier. 00:13:12 sorry, thought you were in the conversation earlier today 00:13:26 in my view "can it cut hydra heads/slice" is answered by "is it a shortblade" 00:13:35 rapscallion's rapier or swashbuckler's rapier 00:13:37 and that's an easy question for the player to answer 00:13:39 were the two leading contenders 00:13:41 a cutlass is probably shorter than half or more of "short swords" IRL 00:14:06 if players are going to wikipedia to determine whether their sword cuts hydra heads 00:14:13 you don't have to go to wikipedia. 00:14:28 you have to have ever seen a pirate depicted in popular media, or in halloween costumes. 00:14:36 the what now!!! 00:14:42 ssh... 00:14:45 man those guys have little candy buckets! 00:14:46 also shorter than a rapier, but I'm assuming the "short" in short swords refers to them being lighter weapons rather than just literally short 00:14:53 with crappy sour candy that I don't like, screw them 00:14:54 s/short swords/short blades 00:14:56 minmay: that is a better justification than any I'd come up with 00:14:58 I like it 00:15:02 gammafunk: plz be nice to kids. 00:15:12 sorry 00:16:01 apology accepted. 00:16:03 now that item weight is gone if I were to make any complaint about realism in crawl swords it would probably be that "short sword" and "long sword" are borderline meaningless 00:16:19 |amethyst: i wonder if we might want to move some I_PLANT monsters to a new I_ANIMATED or something, and then just base it entirely on intelligence 00:16:19 to the point where single swords can actually be called either one 00:16:28 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 00:16:36 a bit questionable, but maybe less so than trying to use holiness at all 00:16:40 which is definitely questionable 00:16:52 there was some chat about bitfield holiness 00:16:52 do people other than PleasingFungus, retired crawl dev and current LARPer, feel strongly that cutlass is misleading? 00:16:55 which sounded nice 00:16:58 gammafunk: i do 00:17:06 minmay: do you have any objection to the game categories of short/long blades, or just realism? 00:17:07 god damn, the doy affect, I didn't count on it 00:17:11 haha 00:17:14 but "short sword" and "long sword" and "great sword" are so codified in other D&D stuff that it doesn't really bother me 00:17:27 rip great sword skill 00:17:38 PleasingFungus: I was talking about the items named "short sword" and "long sword", and no, I don't actually object to them 00:17:55 just that, if you were looking for realism complaints, that's the most obvious one now that item weight is gone 00:17:59 hm 00:18:05 Rapscallion's Rapier is terrible in a not-quite-good-enough way 00:18:11 I would not actually be in favour of renaming them 00:18:12 no rat/dragon tile-size objections? 00:18:28 that's a classic, imo 00:18:58 <|amethyst> doy: intelligence is a scale so I don't think I_ANIMATED would work well unless you make them dumber than plants 00:19:02 or maybe the whole concept of "not confusable" is just bad 00:19:33 and things like actual plants and statues where it doesn't make sense is already covered by magic immunity 00:19:42 PleasingFungus: that would be like complaining that the lion animal crackers are the same size as the elephant animal crackers 00:19:43 <|amethyst> err 00:19:47 <|amethyst> @??plant 00:19:47 plant (03P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 10 | HP: 42-71 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 00:19:48 PleasingFungus: oh I guess since that entire block is in a major tag, I don't need the minor version and can just force the type unconditionally, is what you meant? 00:19:54 <|amethyst> @??oklob plant 00:19:54 oklob plant (09P) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 41-67 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 554 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: plant. 00:20:02 man, animal crackers... 00:20:06 PleasingFungus: also didn't I complain that size should be removed like, today 00:20:07 <|amethyst> doy: does confusing an oklob make sense? 00:20:12 gammafunk: let me check something 00:20:20 minmay: it might have been yesterday. 00:20:23 |amethyst: as much as paralysing it and stabbing it in the back 00:20:24 |amethyst: well, it does actively target you to spit acid 00:20:34 also what minmay said 00:20:38 minmay: I don't think it matters whether 'size' exists as a game concept or not for realism purposes, though! 00:20:45 <|amethyst> could just be "can't confuse stationary monsters" 00:20:45 if anything, size not existing arguably makes it 'less realistic' 00:21:14 <|amethyst> or perhaps it should be a monster flag, there are stationary things that are confusable that should stay that way 00:21:27 like what? 00:21:27 gammafunk: unrands' base & sub-types are reset every time the game is loaded 00:21:33 except for weird shit like variability 00:21:34 oh, huh 00:21:40 !source setup_unrandart 00:21:41 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc;hb=HEAD#l983 00:21:42 ok, well that does simplify things 00:21:43 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:48 (i do think that stationary monsters should maybe not be paralysable) 00:22:07 PleasingFungus: if dragons were the same size as rats they would be exactly as realistic as they are now 00:22:07 maybe 00:22:09 doy: uh 00:22:25 <|amethyst> doy: oh, I guess not much... oklob you were saying, roxanne 00:22:26 minmay: what about elephants!!! 00:22:45 you do realize I'm not actually making realism complaints right 00:23:11 am I not allowed to pursue incredibly stupid lines of thought 00:23:14 is that forbidden to me 00:23:28 just checking 00:23:29 @??roxanne 00:23:30 Roxanne (028) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 14 | HP: 180 | AC/EV: 20/0 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1948 | Sp: crystal spear (3d32), iron shot (3d26), blink other close, b.magma (3d23), mystic blast (3d19) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 00:23:35 roxanne is magic immune 00:23:40 people believed the moon troll wiki page, remember 00:23:46 <|amethyst> oh, still, huh 00:23:50 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:51 The build was broken. (master - e28675b #2141 : Jesse Luehrs): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/56519728 00:23:51 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:23:55 I don't suppose that still exists 00:23:59 hi travis, bye travis 00:24:01 all 8 are magic immune 00:24:39 "Spellbook siren has spell Siren Song marked MON_SPELL_NO_SILENT redundantly" 00:24:39 <|amethyst> maybe Roxanne shouldn't be? presumably she has the mind of a human, not of an animated statue 00:24:39 oh, neat 00:24:39 huh 00:24:39 yesss 00:24:42 my spell tests! 00:24:44 they work!!! 00:24:45 (: 00:24:46 hopefully!!!! 00:25:03 except only for certain builds...? 00:25:17 oh, fulldebug builds 00:25:29 <|amethyst> that aren't local tiles 00:25:37 yes 00:25:38 yeah, crawl -test only works in debug builds 00:25:41 wouldn't it be simpler to make oklobs magic immune than adding some weird case for immobile monsters 00:25:42 doy: are you fixing it or should I? 00:25:48 i've got it 00:25:54 since that seems to be the only thing you have a problem with 00:25:56 minmay: do you need to do either? 00:26:03 no 00:26:06 oklobs can clearly move. how else can they spit? 00:26:14 and aim their spit, no less! 00:26:19 I'm honestly so distressed about having to think of a new name for the cap'ns cutlass that I'll have to sleep on it 00:26:27 rip 00:26:47 gammafunk: imo blame goons for your suffering 00:26:56 god, they run crawl into the ground 00:26:59 call it the captain's cup hilt rapier 00:27:16 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27:26 <|amethyst> I guess confusion-immune can go completely, since every place where confusion would be completely dumb is already covered by magic-immune it seems 00:27:34 yeah 00:27:39 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.3/20150319201009]] 00:28:24 03doy02 07* 0.17-a0-365-g280465a: wizard spells are always silenceable 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=280465a2bc40 00:29:25 <|amethyst> doy: hmm 00:29:31 <|amethyst> doy: casting messages aren't great 00:29:36 <|amethyst> _The siren mumbles some strange words. The siren chants its luring song. 00:29:36 <|amethyst> _The siren casts a spell. The siren chants its luring song. 00:31:03 _The siren mumbles a luring song. 00:31:11 <|amethyst> I guess the cast message should be suppressed 00:36:11 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:37:42 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-366-g656656c: Don't give normal casting messages for siren/avatar song. 10(89 seconds ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=656656c07b6f 00:37:42 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-367-g1dd37ad: Remove trailing newlines. 10(65 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1dd37ad17090 00:38:04 bah, just beat me 00:38:05 (: 00:39:01 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:39:18 // Vampires know how to bite and aim better when thirsty. 00:39:25 weird things you discover when looking in the source 00:39:51 i can tell you one thing 00:39:55 vampires are a fucking disgrace 00:40:09 ? 00:40:23 they're full of shit like that 00:40:31 and it's scattered all over the source, too 00:40:37 <|amethyst> chequers: did you know: 00:40:43 <|amethyst> // Monster attackers+defenders have only a 25% chance of making the 00:40:43 <|amethyst> // chop-check to prevent runaway head inflation. 00:40:50 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:05 <|amethyst> // XXX: Tentatively making an exception for spectral weapons 00:41:39 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:29 heh 00:43:33 what's this about goons ruining the captain's cutlass 00:43:33 Wensley: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 00:43:42 Wensley: they want me to rename it 00:43:45 to not a cutlass 00:43:59 what should I rename it to Wensley (it's to become a rapier) 00:44:30 gammafunk: i dont understan, why do we care what goons think 00:44:46 Wensley: man they are just keeping me down 00:45:09 the justification is that cutlass is confusing as a not-slicing weapon 00:45:31 as a rapier it would no longer slice e.g. hydra heads 00:45:35 why can't you just make it a slicing weapon 00:45:49 well it currently is, but having it be the one sb exception is pretty weird 00:45:54 and it has other weird things already 00:46:07 so the change would be to remove that exception 00:46:28 (yet keep the other weird things like its base damage and its disarming thing) 00:46:34 Captain's Rapier, wielded by the captain of the guard 00:46:49 I guess Captain's Rapier isn't all that bad 00:47:12 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:14 but losing alliteration! 00:47:20 the younger brother of a brave ship's captain, this weapon's owner gained the determination to rise through the military's ranks after his brother was lost at sea 00:47:22 what a lousy loss... 00:47:30 <|amethyst> Rapier of Rapine? 00:47:31 Lieutenant's Lapier 00:47:38 <|amethyst> Or is that too close to "rape" for comfort? 00:47:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:47:55 yes it is 00:47:55 the word "viola" literally means "rape" in french 00:48:55 gammafunk: "The Rapier Of Lousy Loss" 00:49:04 |amethyst: I'm getting a lot of complaints about Gadrel on cszo 00:49:08 "Captain's Stab-a-thing" 00:49:16 who's making an effort to troll in an offensive way these days 00:49:32 <|amethyst> gammafunk: where? 00:49:37 <|amethyst> I mean, which game 00:49:42 <|amethyst> or none currently 00:49:43 <|amethyst> ? 00:49:45 he was in LN and left 00:49:49 not sure if that's in the message log 00:50:11 <|amethyst> that is disabled by default 00:50:16 tbh what I read just now wasn't as offensive as he's been, but people are telling me about him a lot 00:50:21 he's certainly notorious 00:50:34 well LN just died anyhow :/ 00:50:45 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:51:08 gammafunk: how about "Ricard's Rapier". I promise this isn't a reference to something newer than the newness threshold for crawl references 00:51:09 ah yeah, no message log 00:51:31 I'll try to capture a good message log when I can, so you can witness it 00:51:57 Wensley: who is ricard? 00:52:11 <|amethyst> this is one of the reasons I don't really like the privacy arguments for hiding tileschat 00:52:24 <|amethyst> more privacy = more trolling with impunity 00:52:27 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:52:39 <|amethyst> s/hiding/not logging/ 00:52:45 I suppose you have a point about that, yeah, although isn't it the same for ##crawl? 00:52:47 gammafunk: definitely not a character from a 2012 video game 00:52:49 I guess there are client irc logs 00:53:04 -!- memories has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:28 <|amethyst> that's the only reason I sit in ##crawl, so I have scrollback in case I have to decide whether to ban someone 00:53:41 <|amethyst> maybe I should log webtiles chat in a non-public plcae 00:54:16 put it in morgues! 00:54:20 nobody reads those 00:54:26 <|amethyst> that's where it used to be 00:54:36 gammafunk: you could take the standard route and call it the "Duellist's Rapier" 00:54:44 not very imaginative, but it sounds okay and it works 00:54:46 Wensley: not a bad idea 00:54:52 <|amethyst> but there were objections when people started grepping through tileschat logs in morgues 00:54:54 I'd just have to rewrite flavor text 00:55:15 <|amethyst> (so now it's opt-in for the player whose game is being chatted in) 00:55:19 |amethyst: yeah, and there's also the fact of having to read e.g. Gadrel messages in my completed games 00:55:28 as in I wouldn't really want to 00:55:58 <|amethyst> FR for webtiles-changes then 00:56:05 <|amethyst> sidestream chat logs 00:56:17 <|amethyst> in the same dir as webserver.log for example 00:56:30 but one file per game? 00:56:35 <|amethyst> oh 00:56:47 <|amethyst> I guess it probably should go into its own dir 00:57:31 <|amethyst> I guess one per game (that has any chat) makes the most sense? but even that is a lot of files in the same dir 00:58:01 <|amethyst> hm 00:58:07 <|amethyst> I'll have to think about it some more 00:58:13 <|amethyst> maybe one big log makes the most sense 00:58:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:58:19 yeah I guess if the purpose is literally only for moderation, just puting a gid next to every line and one file works 00:59:12 <|amethyst> I'd want timestamp, speaking user name, host game (probably just user name is sufficient) 00:59:29 Subject: [PATCH] Let TLA work on Trolls http://sprunge.us/QRKV 00:59:34 <|amethyst> and what they said of course 00:59:37 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:40 <|amethyst> then it's awkable if needed 01:00:21 <|amethyst> maybe IP addresses, but those can be manually cross-referenced with the webtiles log 01:00:55 chequers: shouldn't you remove that comment 01:01:01 // Troll leather (except for trolls). 01:01:10 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:01:13 good catch 01:01:23 just compiling to test, can i see regen rate in wizmode somewhere? 01:02:18 |amethyst: gammafunk: hey, is there a timeline to landing webtiles-changes in master btw? 01:02:20 <|amethyst> x, to go down to 1 HP, press . and count :) 01:02:49 <|amethyst> good question... I think soon is good 01:03:29 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 01:04:12 <|amethyst> hm 01:06:30 patch works, corrected comment issue: http://sprunge.us/TWHI 01:06:44 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:22 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 01:11:58 tla on troll in early game seems amazing 01:13:54 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:55 The build was fixed. (master - 280465a #2142 : Jesse Luehrs): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/56522272 01:13:55 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:15:07 more amazing than ring of regen? 01:15:48 -!- Walttt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:13 the same as, since it's the same regen, right? 01:17:25 but you also get 4 AC which is hard to find as a troll in early game 01:18:34 it's 2 AC 01:18:47 with amulet of regen + tla you regen > 1hp/turn :D 01:19:04 also since when does tla regen work on trolls 01:19:43 05:59 < chequers> Subject: [PATCH] Let TLA work on Trolls http://sprunge.us/QRKV 01:19:47 -!- Basil has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 01:21:55 ??troll_leather_armour 01:21:55 troll leather armour[1/1]: Speeds your regeneration by 0.4 HP per turn, but also increases hunger rate by 1.5 while you are injured. All races but felids, draconians, and octopodes can wear this. 4AC, 4ER. Does not work on trolls or deep dwarves. 01:22:10 not sure where we got "it's 2 AC" from 01:22:23 ??robe 01:22:23 robe[1/2]: 2AC, 0ER. Robes have unique {archmagi} and {resistance} body armour egos. 01:22:29 above.. yeah, i guess 01:22:29 4-2 = 2 01:22:41 unless you like to roleplay your trolls naked 01:22:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:22:52 until they rip off the skin of another troll 01:22:58 and wear it over their filthy troll body 01:23:11 right so we agree saying "it's 2AC" doesn't make any sense 01:23:34 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:23:34 stop being technically correct and accept my patch :D 01:23:34 unless we're reporting all body armour AC relative to robes 01:23:48 [08:17:30] but you also get 4 AC which is hard to find as a troll in early game 01:23:48 I see Bloax's point but I also see mine 01:23:59 it's 2 AC 01:24:11 03doy02 07* 0.17-a0-368-g6795a14: remove the concept of non-confusable monsters 10(7 minutes ago, 8 files, 6+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6795a1404acd 01:24:14 <+gammafunk> right so we agree saying "it's 2AC" doesn't make any sense 01:24:14 because as a troll you're obviously wearing a 2 AC body armor 01:24:22 I like this irc game 01:24:27 it's called autism 01:24:30 <|amethyst> so robes are 0 AC, got you 01:24:54 chequers: Yeah I was going to make that change in my moonbase branch because of moon trolls :) 01:25:33 I'll maybe merge that tomorrow when I'm done struggling with capn's cutlass 01:25:41 or someone else can! 01:26:19 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 01:26:25 I honestly don't know if anyone objects to it 01:26:31 yeah, i've wanted it since forever and I remember people talking about it in the past week 01:26:36 it would take like 20 seconds and a minute to write up that trolls not getting extra regen from tla is stupid and anachronistic 01:26:37 so maybe it's good that we can query the channel tomorrow to see 01:26:46 -!- Amy is now known as Guest9311 01:27:08 the anachronistic part is due to The Ancient Devs of Past being extremely scared of hp regen 01:27:14 which is also why it is so low 01:27:17 so powerful!!! 01:28:30 why it is so low.... 01:28:53 <|amethyst> gammafunk: remember, Bloax wants to approximately double HP regen rates 01:29:09 because he's not anachronistic, I guess 01:29:29 that's make him chronistic? 01:29:37 do you even know how fucking old the hp regen formula is 01:30:09 oh, well, any formula that's old is just innately wrong, so that settles it thanks! 01:30:31 i see a problem, i fix the problem 01:30:39 do you need some academic explanation to everything 01:30:58 <|amethyst> "I can't easily both speedrun and be at full HP all the time" 01:31:02 what's the problem with low regen? longer turncounts? 01:31:23 the problem is that it makes doing really stupid things very necessary 01:31:25 I would like 'modern fps style' regen, where your regen gets really high when in cover to minimise waiting around 01:31:31 and also slows down the pace of the game 01:31:52 I'd rather see 5 be fixed than speeding up regen (I mean having to press 5 a lot of times to rest up) 01:32:10 but i guess the Interest benefits of Ooh look, a THREATENING GOBLIN comes into view!!! while resting up is too great to pass up 01:32:24 yeah the problem is not regen rates, but just what to do with resting in general, which isn't an easy problem 01:32:30 <|amethyst> you can set it to ignore some things 01:32:45 <|amethyst> but not easily 01:32:47 you can set it to ignore that something is punching you in the face 01:32:51 is that a good idea 01:33:00 might as well manually hold . and see what happens 01:33:03 and that goblin example is great because it has nothing to do at all with resting 01:33:04 <|amethyst> what if it's a goblin? 01:33:07 er regen I mean 01:33:24 http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Death_by_boredom oh right 01:33:44 welp, good discussion as always 01:34:02 well yes 01:34:07 -!- DrStalker has quit [] 01:34:13 you always responding with "so what?" makes for great discussion :) 01:34:23 |amethyst, yeah you can ignore a lot of stuff but I think it would be nice if the default behavior tended more towards fully resting with one press 01:34:26 have fun fixing the resting problem 01:35:09 maybe the problem lies in "resting takes too damn long", hmmm 01:35:12 no, can't be 01:35:20 that's something bloax would say 01:35:24 must be something else!!! 01:35:31 chill dude 01:35:37 I just like my responses to make sense, that's all. I'm anachronistic that way though 01:36:28 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:36:36 oh, also 01:36:41 [08:31:04] <|amethyst> "I can't easily both speedrun and be at full HP all the time" 01:36:48 i can't speedrun and not breadswing :^) 01:37:41 well aut scoring will solve this problem 01:37:46 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:37:49 I thought about the issue with 5 the other day when I was (jokingly) tempted to put qw resting in my .rc since it wouldn't worry about things like MP recharging or some contam going away :P 01:37:55 have fun solving all the problems aut scoring will introduce 01:37:58 <|amethyst> I do think that increasing regen when nothing is around would be reasonable 01:38:25 <|amethyst> (as chequers proposed a bit ago, and others before) 01:38:32 if we remove haste the spell there won't really be any problems 01:38:43 <|amethyst> but there is no need to also increase regen during combat, which is the last version of Bloax's proposal I saw 01:38:55 <|amethyst> a straight increase to regen rate 01:39:06 do you know how much of a difference it makes in combat 01:39:07 |amethyst: I don't think we could avoid an information leak wrt invis enemies 01:39:42 gammafunk: tracking it the same way we track autopickup around invisible enemies would probably be fine 01:39:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: we already have that leak depending on your mutations 01:40:00 yeah probably we do have such leaks 01:40:11 but I think the concept of resting is designed around making monsters wander into your los 01:40:12 <|amethyst> since slow healing 1-2 work that way now 01:40:20 isn't it basically the point? 01:40:53 well does it do it well 01:40:56 <|amethyst> yes, but I'm saying there are two separate knobs 01:40:58 i don't think the information leak is major 01:41:02 what would speeding up regen out of combat improve? (earnest question) it seems like it would just reduce that situation gammafunk described which I think would be undesirable 01:41:11 in fact, even if people abuse regen to detect monsters through walls, it's not a major issue 01:41:27 in fact if you don't allow this, killholes suddenly are abuseable 01:41:32 in fact 01:41:48 hi why does nobody answer an important question 01:42:00 [08:39:11] do you know how much of a difference it makes in combat 01:42:02 <|amethyst> yeah, killholes would be a problem 01:42:23 <|amethyst> could have some kind of hysteresis I guess 01:42:29 I agree with bloax though, upping regen in combat is not really a problem 01:42:34 -!- Isvaffel has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 01:42:38 I don't know why speeding up regen with no monsters in sight is desirable 01:42:45 I don't understand either 01:42:47 it doesn't take more realtime 01:42:52 barring some cases that do not matter 01:42:55 it makes exactly 01:42:56 zero 01:42:57 zilch 01:42:59 nothing 01:43:11 I mean it does I guess since you might have to 5 twice 01:43:13 of a difference when it comes to how combat goes 01:43:15 well 01:43:17 have you ever moved away from a monster before 01:43:27 i do think that removing the arbitrary 100 turn limit on resting would be an improvement 01:43:37 <|amethyst> I guess increasing regen in combat would make kiting go faster 01:43:38 because that is annoying 01:43:39 <|amethyst> doy: and yes 01:43:46 <|amethyst> that's what n1k was saying 01:43:46 doy, yeah, I believe that's a relic from searching for secret doors 01:43:46 well yes it makes kiting in the earlygame less painful 01:44:01 but then again, that's a problem with the earlygame 01:44:08 but i really don't want to touch the running code, so 01:44:09 since you have either kiting or commiting suicide 01:44:18 which of the two do you prefer? 01:44:37 Bloax: you have very unique opinions about how to play the game 01:44:56 doy: i have rather realistic opinions about how the game plays 01:45:09 * chequers never kites anything and has a >1% winrate! 01:45:22 !gamesby chequers 01:45:23 chequers has played 606 games, between 2014-08-19 04:57:21 and 2015-03-30 09:52:11, won 5 (0.8%), high score 13286791, total score 38853546, total turns 3392310, play-time/day 0:56:58, total time 8d+20:40:44. 01:45:25 chequers: you don't use blowguns? 01:45:41 i barely kite anything 01:45:46 unless i really have no options left 01:45:57 because i do not like kiting 01:45:59 it is cheap 01:46:20 thankfully /ignore Bloax is not cheap 01:46:49 i won't miss you "Everything must make sense!!!" boy 01:47:03 but I'm not sure if the regen-out-of-hostiles-in-los is really a problem that needs solving, regen rates seem good to me overall 01:47:07 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:47:26 the bloax metagame: when he can't get his score any higher through gameplay, bug the devs until they make changes to allow for higher scores 01:47:28 (: 01:47:36 hey, if it works... 01:47:53 i don't fucking care about scores 01:48:01 i care about this game having problems and wanting to solve them 01:48:32 but obviously not-speedrunners that haven't suffered the pain disagree 01:48:48 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:56 and try to make up motives for my mysterious actions 01:49:14 The complaint that low-hp regen is bad might have some traction, but those species tend to be fast or otherwise pretty silly in terms of gimmicks 01:49:21 chequers: anyhow bug me if that doesn't get merged in a day or so 01:50:12 i think making it so that resting only ever takes a single 5 would be far more useful in making the game play better than messing with regen rates 01:50:54 I agree 01:50:56 well it can't because something can and will wander into your view 01:51:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:51:04 gammafunk: ok 01:51:11 <|amethyst> well, yes 01:51:20 <|amethyst> if things can't wander into your view 01:51:23 and it won't be anything worthwhile 01:51:30 gammafunk: i sometimes pick up curare, but i usually cbf, since enabling needles also picks up the types i don't care about, and i need to find a blowgun by hand 01:51:30 <|amethyst> then you by definition will enter any fight at full HP 01:51:41 unless you're mummyscumming on d:1 and it's a killer bee pack 01:51:43 <|amethyst> that would certainly be nice 01:51:49 Bloax, IMO that's something worth preserving--I've certainly had difficult situations emerge because I couldn't easily rest up 01:52:02 consider: early game, Vaults 5, Zot 01:52:07 <|amethyst> hell 01:52:08 well yes 01:52:09 chequers: poison needles are pretty much the reason why you use blowguns, since curare is rare. they take down many many threats pre-lair 01:52:14 i am not saying "remove resting up" 01:52:19 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:23 i am saying "make it less of a pain in the ass" 01:52:23 yeah, poison needles are great 01:52:29 curare is amazing of course, but generally you want to use that blowgun 01:52:46 blowguns are basically necessary for spider as a melee character 01:52:48 Lasty has argued that this is a problem, in fact, and he's probably right that it should require at least some skill to be good 01:52:58 unless you like taking oods to the face while chasing a stupid spider 01:53:02 <|amethyst> what about some lua to make resting ignore mosters with darkgrey ash tier 01:53:21 oh, like even if they hit you? 01:53:25 <|amethyst> sure 01:53:33 <|amethyst> well 01:53:35 heh, man I like that for comedic reasons alone 01:53:44 <|amethyst> maybe check if you're losing more HP than you're gaining from regen :) 01:54:30 is this a competition on finding the silliest solution to something 01:54:58 gammafunk: i know, but, it's too much work 01:55:07 because something stupid wandering into your view can also be solved by making monsters not spawn past the initial generation 01:55:27 <|amethyst> or by making all such spawns OOD regardless of times 01:55:30 while also solving something stupid coming into your view while travelling 01:55:31 <|amethyst> timers 01:55:49 well no i don't think spawning stone giants on d:1 all the time would be a good idea 01:56:27 yeah people have talked about things like making weaker enemies cease to exist and not spawn under various conditions 01:56:52 also, the first of april is coming tomorrow 01:56:55 i didn't see the dev response to 'no post-generation spawns ever', what was it? 01:56:59 go change it up as i say and see if people notice 01:57:17 April 1: hammers + 20dmg 01:57:27 after meleebug?!?! 01:57:37 you're right, you need +40 for people to care 01:57:43 dang 01:57:46 actually on april 1st we will find out that meleebug was a hoax 01:57:52 which is why 'no one noticed' 01:58:20 unless someone made fsim lie by changing a couple of unrelated lines of code then no 01:58:29 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:38 i am very fun at parties 01:58:49 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:59:19 man, adding a new dragon armour is hard 01:59:32 almost all code rather than data 01:59:33 how many new dragon armours do we need 01:59:37 we don't 01:59:37 <|amethyst> meleebug just raised damage back to 0.10 levels, before the fsim rewrite 01:59:43 iron dragon armour, bone dragon armour 01:59:47 wind! 01:59:51 FR: change plate mail to Iron Dragon Armour 01:59:52 <|amethyst> but old fsim was buggy so you couldn't tell 01:59:53 Someone had an iron dragon shield idea 01:59:59 which was pretty cool 02:00:28 chequers: fwiw new dragon armour is as likely as ettin species at this point 02:00:54 I could be proved wrong! Formicids exist, which I never thought they would! 02:01:10 why? 02:01:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I'm sure the sceptics said that before 0.16 02:01:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: about new dragon armour that is 02:01:33 but we have two more already |amethyst !!! 02:01:45 <|amethyst> when it rains it pours 02:01:59 wind drakes are drakes, not dragons 02:02:15 <|amethyst> FR: 02:02:15 yeah, at least we agree about that 02:02:17 wind drake cloak 02:02:19 :P 02:02:24 <|amethyst> oh wait 02:02:37 <|amethyst> %git forest_wyrm 02:02:38 07Eronarn02 {kilobyte} * 0.9-a1-790-gfae2a70: Forest wyrms. 10(4 years ago, 16 files, 268+ 61-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fae2a70519b6 02:02:59 <|amethyst> also, SoH armour 02:04:04 doy: they're dragons now :D 02:04:21 nuuuuu 02:04:28 1learn add chequerscrawl 02:04:40 (a fork of bcrawl) 02:04:47 <|amethyst> @??wind dragon name:falkor 02:04:47 unknown monster: "wind dragon" 02:05:46 gahitsu (L2 DECj) ASSERT(load_mode != LOAD_VISITOR) in 'files.cc' at line 1346 failed. (D:255) 02:05:55 <|amethyst> that's different 02:05:59 <|amethyst> !crashlog 02:06:00 11055. gahitsu, XL2 DECj, T:799 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/gahitsu/crash-gahitsu-20150331-070546.txt 02:06:11 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:19 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:20 hah it compiles 02:06:23 @??wind drake 02:06:23 wind drake (16k) | Spd: 12 | HD: 8 | HP: 47-72 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 12 | fly | Res: 06magic(40), 12wind | XP: 285 | Sp: wind blast [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], airstrike (0-26) [11!AM, 06!sil], deflect missiles [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 02:06:27 @??swamp dragon 02:06:27 swamp dragon (07D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 57-80 | AC/EV: 7/7 | Dam: 20, 11, 1107(trample) | fly | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 694 | Sp: poisonous cloud (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 02:06:31 <|amethyst> Sorry, I don't know how to get there. x a lot 02:06:36 @??stream dragon 02:06:36 unknown monster: "stream dragon" 02:06:41 @??steam dragon 02:06:41 steam dragon (02D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 23-38 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 12, 6 | fly | Res: 06magic(20), steam | XP: 183 | Sp: steam ball (3d10) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 02:06:45 <|amethyst> &rc gahitsu 02:06:47 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.16/gahitsu.rc 02:06:48 dang hd4 02:07:03 ??bcrawl 02:07:03 bcrawl[1/5]: planned features: rn-, level 6 evap, arachnetaur, yred revenant gifts, water magic, perma-enslave, imp race, dual wielding, fruit reform, blinkitis, fe^nem unique, felid monsters in general, bdsm god, jotunn race, revival of dj, undead can worship good gods, tree race that can't use 1h weapons, acid brand, un-unranding salamander hide 02:07:06 |amethyst: 02:07:08 ??throwing net[$ 02:07:09 throwing net[5/5]: http://www.dobrazupa.org/morgue/Ned/crash-Ned-20130511-122001.txt 02:07:09 <|amethyst> no rc 02:07:25 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:07:34 <|amethyst> minmay: yeah, not quite that bad 02:07:54 chequerscrawl would have +2 apts globally, muts biased towards good, and bad muts are all temporary (long duration) 02:08:23 also chaos brand would become mandatory for xomites 02:08:27 man, i should implement this 02:08:28 +2 apts globally? 02:08:29 <|amethyst> hm 02:08:35 <|amethyst> why would it not be LOAD_VISITOR 02:08:59 well, i might not add the apts to some of the races i don't play 02:09:05 -!- schistosoma has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:06 throwing net[5] is my favourite crash log, because you think you're finally at the end of the message log, and then you see the webtiles message buffer 02:09:12 <|amethyst> hm 02:09:19 <|amethyst> reentrant process_command 02:09:58 I think chequers crawl should probably just remove aptitudes 02:10:07 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:16 <|amethyst> minmay: I like the "Key pressed, stopping explore" every few dozen pages :) 02:10:41 you should see how often that occurs in my message log 02:11:51 gammafunk: it might remove xl 02:12:23 <|amethyst> and no one noticed... 02:12:58 fyi bloaxcrawl is exclusively focused on making crawl comfier 02:13:04 well xl is really different than aptitudes for the most part 02:13:12 (except the one octopode accident) 02:13:35 but add +2 to all aptitudes for everyone leans towards just not having them 02:14:11 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:46 ofc hp/mp are really important, and are significantly affected by skills as well as xl 02:14:58 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:09 for someone that wants to make sense all the time you're not making much sense 02:15:10 <|amethyst> oh 02:15:25 i was joking about +2 apt 02:15:26 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:28 it would just help me not die 02:15:30 adding +2 to all aptitudes would just make skills be higher 02:15:31 <|amethyst> somehow gahitsu ended up, in X, visiting a level he had never seen 02:15:51 that's, uh 02:15:52 but removing XL is something I've slightly-more-than-idly thought about for dcss 02:15:52 not good 02:16:33 you get hp, mp and mr only, right? hp & mp come from skill training, and adding another mr skill is a bad idea but you can probably go without mr per level if you scale enemies 02:16:37 <|amethyst> D:-1 02:17:20 every time you quaff a potion of heal wounds your mhp increases 02:17:42 brogue alert 02:17:54 man, i can't give wind dragon armour the running ego 02:17:56 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:02 i give up (for now) 02:18:13 <|amethyst> chequers: 02:19:35 <|amethyst> MR used to come from Enchantments skill 02:19:41 <|amethyst> s/ents/ent/ 02:19:52 <|amethyst> so there you go :) 02:20:26 the amount of MR you get in a typical game from getting to XL27 is like 1.5 pips, right? 02:20:35 I wonder if it's even a big nerf to just remove that 02:20:37 !apt MR 02:20:37 MR: Sp: 7!, DD: 6, Fe: 6, Mu: 5, Na: 5, VS: 5, Dg: 4, DE: 4, Fo: 4, HE: 4, Og: 4, Vp: 4, Ce: 3*, Dr: 3*, Ds: 3*, Gh: 3*, Gr: 3*, Ha: 3*, HO: 3*, Hu: 3*, Ko: 3*, Mi: 3*, Mf: 3*, Og: 3*, Op: 3*, Te: 3*, Tr: 3* 02:21:00 (there's a duplicate Og, but otherwise it's correct) 02:21:34 !calc 27*3 02:21:35 81 02:21:42 well a noticable amount then 02:21:46 !calc 27*4 02:21:46 108 02:21:46 !calc 27*5 02:21:47 135 02:21:47 !calc 27*6 02:21:48 162 02:21:48 !calc 27*7 02:21:49 189 02:22:24 I don't reallly think a skill dedicated to MR is a good idea, but I do like the idea of having only one XP pool rather than skill XP & XL XP 02:22:44 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 02:23:16 <|amethyst> chequers: just turn XL into a skill 02:23:21 <|amethyst> chequers: "Experience" 02:23:30 experience experience 02:23:33 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 02:23:47 just make it a skill you can't turn off 02:23:49 fr make a less good game, cpo is too popular now 02:23:54 the more skills you train, the less experience you gain in them all 02:24:07 and thus you are less experienced 02:24:52 where in the source checkout do vaults/maps live? 02:25:20 dat/des/ 02:25:21 dat/des 02:25:42 thanks 02:26:42 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:27:40 yay, i found the vault i was looking for. just ran into grunt_mini_vestibule in my game and thought it was adorable, had to find out who put it in 02:34:00 -!- Jonatan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:33 -!- joof has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:38 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:55 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:35 @??orc priest 02:49:36 orc priest (03o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 41 | Sp: pain (d8) [11!AM], cantrip [11!AM], smiting (7-17) [11!AM], heal other (2d1) [11!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 02:52:53 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:02:05 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:37 -!- Spatzist has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:12:48 !tell nicolae i found your hungry ghost food shop. screw you 03:12:48 Sorry chequers, I don't know who nicolae is. 03:12:56 !tell nicolae- i found your hungry ghost food shop. screw you (and your dash) 03:12:56 chequers: OK, I'll let nicolae- know. 03:16:04 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:46 -!- bgiannan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:07 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 03:22:43 oh man we're getting somewhere 03:26:14 Hi all. Is the JSON API of Sequell actively developed ? 03:29:43 @??slime creature 03:29:43 slime creature (03J) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 46-76 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Dam: 22 | amphibious, regen | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 263 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 03:29:53 bgiannan: semi-actively, it only arrived for the new website 03:31:51 I was kinda thinking about making a webapp that would use it. Is it at a usable stage yet ? 03:32:11 yes 03:32:22 https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/docs/api.md 03:32:39 if you want to make a lot of queries, tell greensnark 03:33:26 perfect 03:34:51 I only discovered sequell recently and was kinda of amazed by it. Thought I would make a webapp that would make it more accessible for "non-commandline people". 03:35:56 the less irc-exclusive functionality, the better 03:36:27 what the hell 03:36:36 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:56 return you.dex() + (you.strength() - you.dex()) * weight / 20; 03:37:07 what's going on with calc_stat_to_hit_base() 03:38:56 ?nevermind? 03:39:03 that was weird 03:47:21 Might want to have a filter on what user's games are displayed on the front page of cdo. 03:47:31 Eg: Not displaying "Phaggot the Skirmisher" 03:47:56 Redesign is nice tho. 03:48:17 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:55 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:52:26 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:59 Is a move to github planned ? 03:54:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:55:00 @??yak 03:55:00 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 28-48 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 203 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 03:55:01 yes 03:56:13 -!- Walt`` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:56:31 read: good catch, but a wordlist would be pretty difficult 03:56:42 read: i think the best bet is to catch those names at signup 03:56:46 !gamesby phaggot 03:56:47 phaggot has played 8 games, between 2015-03-31 01:31:50 and 2015-03-31 08:51:48, won 0, high score 18235, total score 26243, total turns 32575, play-time/day 1:44:38, total time 1:44:38. 03:57:06 probably need a badwords list 03:58:52 chequers | read: i think the best bet is to catch those names at signup 03:59:10 @??hell sentinel 03:59:10 Hell Sentinel (071) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 124-162 | AC/EV: 25/3 08(spiny 5) | Dam: 40, 25 | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2907 | Sp: hellfire (3d20) [06!sil], iron shot (3d33) [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 03:59:10 I agree but I was thinking that alternatively you can have two levels of severity. 03:59:31 Though this is obviously more work, but having a no-go names filter and a "we don't want this on the front of the site" filter. 03:59:53 i don't see a problem with forbidding the name 'phaggot' 03:59:58 like, completely 04:00:04 I also thought I'd heard |amethyst or someone talking about something like this already existing but maybe he meant manually doing it. 04:00:14 i think there's a list for irc announces 04:00:22 sequell has a badnicks list 04:00:25 Ah right. 04:00:28 manually maintained 04:00:41 he won't anounce something like 04:00:47 !lg 420hitlersbong 04:00:48 No games for 420hitlersbong. 04:00:54 or whatever it was 04:01:16 !lg * name~~hitler 04:01:18 488. Hitler the Sneak (L7 HuAs), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:5 on 2014-08-25 05:16:01, with 586 points after 4931 turns and 0:25:34. 04:01:45 ah yes, the sneaky word filter avoiding "Hitler" 04:02:34 or was it sizzell 04:02:34 probably is 04:02:48 since that's the one actually posting announcements 04:03:00 !lg * name~~faggot src=cszo 04:03:03 1. stopwhiningfaggot the Miscreant (L4 NaEn), slain by a jackal on D:3 on 2013-01-18 18:08:50, with 214 points after 3455 turns and 0:07:22. 04:03:27 such creative name choices 04:05:22 i dont really want to have to deal with this until after central auth is implemented, btw 04:05:51 well yes 04:05:55 that is a good plan 04:14:05 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:16 @??frost giant 04:15:16 frost giant (12C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 87-122 | AC/EV: 9/3 | Dam: 35 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold++, 12drown | XP: 1750 | Sp: b.cold (3d25) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 04:18:48 @??adder 04:18:49 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:4-8) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 04:21:19 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:30:43 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:34:53 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:34:57 huh 04:35:02 @??sojobo 04:35:02 Sojobo (09Q) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 20 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 9/21 | Dam: 28, 14, 14 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(140), 13neg | XP: 5528 | Sp: b.lightning (3d24), wind blast, airstrike (0-50), sum.air elementals, deflect missiles | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 04:35:06 @??spriggan defender 04:35:06 spriggan defender (08i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 59-79 | AC/EV: 5/22 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | XP: 1491 | Sz: little | Int: high. 04:36:39 @??edmund 04:36:39 Edmund (05@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 44 | AC/EV: 7/8 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 164 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 04:36:51 @??tengu 04:36:52 tengu (12Q) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 5 | HP: 16-29 | AC/EV: 2/11 | Dam: 10, 5, 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, lev | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 117 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 04:36:52 either my calculations are completely out of whack or sojobo definitely does not have 21 EV 04:37:47 @??orc 04:37:47 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 04:48:51 oic 04:49:14 who would have known ev is actually checked as the average of two 1dx rolls 04:51:28 -!- bgiannan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:54 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:52:58 huh 04:53:10 -!- Guest9311 is now known as flappity 04:53:37 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:56:24 righto 04:56:34 (adventures in melee formula land) 04:58:19 -!- schisto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:06:05 @??orb of fire 05:06:05 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 8519 | Sp: b.fire (3d40) [06!sil], fireball (3d43) [06!sil], malmutate [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: normal. 05:12:37 -!- tgcid has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:22:39 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:23:04 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:32:38 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:43 -!- schisto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:48:07 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:53:18 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:55:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:22 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:05:41 well, i noticed Phaggot was on CPO, so i killed their account 06:12:52 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 06:18:49 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:25 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:26:28 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:50 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:35:29 -!- orionstein has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:43:09 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:49:17 !tell gammafunk bad??????? look at all that rN! 06:49:17 Lasty: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 06:49:24 %git 06:49:25 07doy02 * 0.17-a0-368-g6795a14: remove the concept of non-confusable monsters 10(6 hours ago, 8 files, 6+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6795a1404acd 06:50:12 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:50:25 Lasty_: commit this http://sprunge.us/TWHI 06:53:22 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:00:24 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:02:07 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:11:46 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:14 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29:22 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:57 !seen dpeg 07:30:57 dpeg: You have 7 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:30:57 Sorry dpeg, that person is dead. 07:31:05 !seen reaverb 07:31:05 I last saw reaverb at Tue Mar 31 04:25:26 2015 UTC (8h 5m 39s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Leaving.'. 07:32:11 !messages 07:32:11 (1/7) PleasingFungus said (5w 11h 40m 30s ago): Have you seen http://i.imgur.com/j9X2DmA.jpg ? (Google suggests it's by http://www.reddit.com/user/jake55778 , though idk how you'd get in contact with them) 07:35:13 !tell PleasingFungus Thanks for the link, a great picture. I have a reddit account and sent him a message. 07:35:14 dpeg: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 07:35:16 !messages 07:35:17 (1/6) Lasty said (3w 6d 9h 57m 40s ago): My pet peeve is people who seem to be earnest but who cannot compose arguments, have no humility or perspective, only acknowledge information and feedback that supports them, and can neither admit they are wrong or that others are right. Hence, Berder. 07:35:27 !messages 07:35:28 (1/5) Lasty said (3w 6d 9h 56m 50s ago): I get sucked in by trying to make reasonable statements aiming to help them get on the right page 07:35:29 !messages 07:35:30 (1/4) gammafunk said (2w 1d 17h 4m 26s ago): There's new discussion about potion petition in https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12313 ; someone thinks the Philiosophy section in the manual is leading you astray :) 07:35:40 haha 07:36:02 !messages 07:36:02 (1/3) rchandra said (2w 1d 5h 17m 14s ago): you might like the desperate play in this abyssing (link will be double-speed): !lm rchandra dsie abyss.enter 1 -tv:>T17000:channel=panic:x2 07:36:21 !messages 07:36:22 (1/2) PleasingFungus said (1w 2d 20h 58m 32s ago): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3706035&perpage=40&pagenumber=21#post443023326 another gozag review, one that actually bribed hell (!) 07:36:45 !messages 07:36:45 (1/1) |amethyst said (1d 5h 22m 2s ago): you should create a github account 07:37:13 |amethyst: I will... please remind me in a week if I didn't. Things are busy right now (moving workplace today). 07:39:04 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:42:19 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 07:42:22 -!- hhkb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:50 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:51:29 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:53:13 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:55:47 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:10 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:07 MP+9 items actually only give you MP+4 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9600 by gahnzo 07:58:07 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:51 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:46 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:01:48 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:40 -!- causative has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08:18 !lg . -graph 08:08:18 1028. bgiannan the Sneak (L1 SpEn), slain by a hobgoblin on D:1 on 2015-03-30 16:19:39, with 7 points after 169 turns and 0:01:04. 08:08:30 !lg . -graph -count:10 08:08:33 10/1028 games for bgiannan: bgiannan L1 SpEn (cdo), bgiannan L6 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L1 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L2 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L6 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L6 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L3 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L6 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L5 TeCj (cdo), bgiannan L1 TeCj (cdo) 08:13:24 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:14:14 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:26:15 -!- TR_Muscateer has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:45 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:09 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:11 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:21 -!- Mindiell is now known as Poisson-Rouge 08:36:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:43:17 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:49 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:22 -!- bleh has quit [Client Quit] 08:53:21 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:53:31 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:17 bgiannan: just in case you haven't heard, there is a web interface for the learnDB at http://lookupdb.guy.ht/ , but a web interface for !lg /!lm would be pretty awesome too :D 08:59:05 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Client Quit] 09:00:16 Yeah I know about it 09:00:32 but I had something more visual in mind for ldb, lg & lm 09:00:53 more wysiwyg 09:00:55 :) 09:10:48 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:07 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:12:28 is there some requirements to get that "+v" ? 09:14:35 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:12 !lm elliptic 09:15:12 42519. [2015-03-31 14:12:49] elliptic the Hoplite (L24 HuAK of Lugonu) killed Margery on turn 56251. (Depths:2) 09:16:25 bgiannan: check /topic :) 09:19:32 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:19:47 oh I know what it is I was just wondering if you only gave it to active coder on crawl or if anyone could have it 09:21:27 generally we give it to people we're sick of committing patches for :P 09:23:12 more seriously, it's generally for people who have demonstrated they know what they are doing, have a compatible design sense, and aren't too likely to break everything with their code (though i got on the team somehow...) 09:25:44 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:39 haha 09:28:44 1st answer was more accurate ;) 09:28:45 oh please, breaking crawl is a grand dev tradition :p 09:35:23 ok 09:36:57 bgiannan, dev team members are not necessarily developers but may have made significant other contributions 09:37:01 dpeg is an obvious example 09:37:18 and i haven't committed anything in ages but i am currently at least threatening to fix webtiles ;) 09:37:30 IMO dev team members are developers by definition? they just aren't necessarily coders 09:38:24 mumra, so you are going to finally add iOS bluetooth keyboard support for webtiles? great! 09:39:45 elliptic: true 09:39:57 ...? 09:40:14 iOS needs special support for bt keyboard in a browser? 09:40:25 i meant not necessarily coders 09:40:55 or even actively coding 09:41:09 geekosaur: I'm too web-dev stupid to really explain it, but something about the way that iOS needs some sort of trigger to allow the keyboard to work. a buddy set up a test site at one point. I never got around to writing a feature-request post 09:41:35 I should do that at some point. you can type in the chat box, but you can't get commands to register in the game to play 09:41:43 johnstein: and of course i will be adding beacon support so you can tap your phone to spectate a webtiles game 09:41:54 weird 09:42:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:42:19 mumra: spectating seems to (eventually) work 09:42:21 -!- Poisson-Rouge is now known as Mindiell 09:42:38 johnstein: i mean tap your phone on someone elses using beacon technology 09:42:42 because that is obviously needed 09:43:03 (joking, in case anybody somehow thinks i am serious) 09:44:15 the spectating feature I would love would be the ability to spectate a game and pull up someone's inventory or info screens. yea I know that's a fundamentally completely different way that webtiles works so I know it's not really possible 09:44:16 what i am *actually* seriously considering is compiling the crawl UI into javascript using emscripten so webtiles will be graphically identical to regular tiles 09:44:32 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 09:47:49 johnstein, yeah that has often been requested, if the emscripten build works then who knows, 09:48:08 since i might then be able to build a node server version of crawl allowing more flexibility like that 09:48:28 of course these are entirely pipe dreams until i get some significant spare time :) 09:48:49 godspeed 09:49:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:51:57 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:53:48 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:54:49 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:55:26 Is webtiles intrinsically coupled to dcss code or does anything can be "plugged" onto dcss to visualize the game ? 09:55:52 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:10 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:22 in other words: if I wanted to make my own graphical client to dcss, would I have to dive into crawl code, or would I just have to know about a certain api ? 09:56:47 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:50 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:58:28 -!- rophy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:16 iirc at least one bot uses the webtiles interface just so it can consume json? 09:59:32 not that the api there is necessarily well documented, so code diving may well be necessary 10:01:41 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:06:11 yeah there is a websocket connection and everything is transmitted as json 10:06:38 but it's very close to what comes over a console connection 10:07:03 so visitors can't interact and e.g. the inventory information is only available when a player is on the inventory screen 10:07:21 theoretically it probably wouldn't be all that hard to start supporting things like viewing inventory with the current setup 10:07:26 is ther a doc for that json api ? 10:07:39 it's not a json api in the traditional sense 10:07:53 since it's stuff streamed over websockets, rather than a http endpoint that you can poll 10:07:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:06 I see 10:08:06 and either way there's no documentation ;) 10:08:21 my biggest problem is, i can't easily run a local webtiles server to test anything, since i'm on windows' 10:08:45 virtualbox ? 10:08:52 yeah 10:09:00 running a vm falls outside of "easily" 10:09:06 lol ok 10:09:14 Did As actually get removed? If so, did new hunter keep it's old stats or get As's stats? 10:09:23 especially with the crappy laptop i'm running right now 10:10:14 note: if anyone does have a vm image handy with webtiles server set up already, please let me know 10:10:55 so does the downloadable tile version of crawl uses the same process as webtiles or is it totally different ? 10:11:04 completely different 10:11:29 this is another aim of emscripten compilation, it would bring webtiles and tiles completely back in sync 10:11:37 you might have inferred that from webtiles not working on Windows... 10:12:00 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:08 sorry, the server-side process of webtiles IS basically the same as a normal download of crawl 10:12:29 but there is a bridge to allow communication with the client, and it's that bridge that won't work on windows 10:12:39 but the frontend parts are completely different 10:12:54 ok but in principle what you need to make your own graphical client is to understand what crawl's telling you regardless of if those data go through a websocket or directly to your client 10:13:05 another nice aim would be allowing the desktop client to spectate online games 10:13:38 bgiannan, basically ... yes 10:14:00 the data going through websocket is probably much simpler to interpret than the raw data tho 10:15:18 yeah but you couldn't make a local client unless you created a webtiles server with it 10:15:49 you could communicate with an online server 10:16:42 but for development purposes you might want to make tweaks to the server in which case you'd need to run your own server 10:17:57 So I have/had a roguelike projet, the engine is working ok and has nice things like: lighting, normals etc. And I'm thinking that, in theory, in wouldn't be that hard to plug it on dcss and add things like sound & music and so on. 10:18:34 if the websocket data are not matrix-like I think it would be doable 10:18:39 -> https://twitter.com/giann/status/575307167932280832 10:18:44 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:18:58 here's an example of what it looks like 10:19:07 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:19:27 the game screenshot looks nice 10:19:32 -!- tingol4 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:19:38 of course it would be less flashy with crawl's tiles but it would be nice anyway 10:20:06 to plug it into crawl's tiles you would end up needing some of crawl's webtiles code 10:20:12 i have a feeling this would end up being hard 10:20:22 what platform does this run on? 10:20:30 windows/os x/linux 10:20:35 it uses Lve2D 10:20:47 the code base is 100% lua 10:22:37 so would it require to dive into undocumented code hell ? 10:23:08 you would probably have an easier time integrating with webtiles servers if you'd used webgl ;) 10:23:24 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:43 but, if you're looking for level generation, you could try to adapt some of crawl's algorithms which are in lua 10:23:57 yeah 10:24:19 webgl would require an amount of pain I'm not prepared to endure ^^ 10:24:34 well there are libraries like phaser.io 10:24:43 which use webgl with a canvas fallback 10:24:47 and make it super easy 10:25:03 does it have shaders ? 10:25:34 yep 10:25:37 glsl 10:25:52 they don't work in canvas obviously 10:26:05 ok 10:26:30 coz' the added value of my engine is very much the lighting and it's only glsl 10:27:42 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:38 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:36:30 ah 10:36:58 should work quite easily in webgl then. browser support is very good these days. 10:37:05 and you can package for phone apps as a bonus. 10:37:53 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:41:16 mumra, I gather you're possibly the only one who worked on webtiles ? 10:42:45 no, it wasn't even me :P 10:43:05 i did some small tweaks to it when e.g. i made clouds semitransparent 10:43:25 but i didn't used to code javascript as heavily as i do knpow 10:44:20 oh ok 10:45:22 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:19 but the main things that actually *need* fixing right now are performance issues 10:46:30 which look largely like memory leaks 10:46:41 but also switching to webgl on supported browsers certainly couldn't hurt 10:47:49 you perf in terms of ips ? 10:47:53 mean* 10:48:42 ips? 10:48:58 image per seconds 10:49:02 fps if you prefer 10:49:10 ah, no it's more the lag when moving 10:49:38 but if you autoexplore with a greater than 0 delay then you can see it's noticably slower than console also 10:49:50 and things start getting really laggy when the game has been running a while 10:50:09 also screens can get stuck open for spectators which is probably a separate issue 10:52:53 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:53:49 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:54:09 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:09 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:09 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:43 02:07:54 chequerscrawl would have +2 apts globally, muts biased towards good, <- "random" muts are already biased toward good muts 11:08:43 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:09:25 !tell marvinpa I swear I saw exploding sparklegold working correctly (all sparkly), but maybe I'm crazy and/or it was broken at some point? moot now, I suppose 11:09:25 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 11:13:51 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:17:15 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:32 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 11:26:22 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:32 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:16 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:34 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.1/20150305021524]] 11:31:11 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:37:35 -!- bencryption has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:15 Trunk updates on CXC were broken by the README.txt to README.md rename 11:39:30 I suppose that's true for some other servers as well 11:39:49 <|amethyst> oh 11:39:50 <|amethyst> yeah 11:40:23 <|amethyst> oh, and ?! is broken 11:40:54 !? 11:43:00 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-368-g6795a14 (34) 11:43:03 <|amethyst> hm 11:43:05 <|amethyst> how to fix it 11:43:19 <|amethyst> can't just change README.txt to README.md on that line 11:43:38 <|amethyst> because then you can't build updates to older branches 11:44:38 I did just that, to get rid of the tournament warning. 11:44:47 -!- iliekturtles has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:44:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:45:13 No fancy branches on CXC anyway. 11:45:28 <|amethyst> Medar: it will matter for the stable script when 0.17 is released 11:45:44 <|amethyst> testing a slightly more general fix 11:45:47 Of course. 11:46:49 <|amethyst> doy: hm, that [![Build Status](...)] at the top of ?! (once fixed to use README.md) looks a little out of place 11:47:00 <|amethyst> doy: maybe that shouldn't be the first line of the file 11:47:44 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:47:51 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-369-ge05c439: Fix ?! 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e05c439437fd 11:48:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:43 There seem to be few more README.txt references around. 11:53:09 -!- Archevanescent has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:26 <|amethyst> oh, I see a few more in crawl, yeah 11:53:27 -!- Sczcya has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:33 <|amethyst> not seeing any others in dgamelaunch-config 11:53:40 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:53:55 Right 11:54:04 <|amethyst> hm 11:54:18 <|amethyst> I wonder about including a .md file as the README in the windows zips? 11:54:26 <|amethyst> does windows associate anything with ".md" ? 11:54:34 <|amethyst> by default 11:54:45 it opens it with the Mountain Dwarf Viewer application 11:54:59 probably would be better to process the .md into a .txt with the build status junk removed for releases? 11:55:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-368-g6795a14 (34) 11:55:20 <|amethyst> Medar: my fix is at https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/commit/9df13ec 11:55:23 or maybe not only for releases 11:55:29 <|amethyst> !tell johnstein fix for dgamelaunch-config trunk updates (README.txt -> README.md): https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/commit/9df13ec 11:55:30 |amethyst: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 11:55:33 <|amethyst> !tell TZer0 fix for dgamelaunch-config trunk updates (README.txt -> README.md): https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/commit/9df13ec 11:55:33 |amethyst: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 11:56:03 |amethyst: No association for it on my system at least 11:59:27 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-370-gf292aa4: Fix up a few more README.txt references (Medar) 10(87 seconds ago, 4 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f292aa421f83 11:59:47 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:43 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:48 well, it does get processed into the pdf if you're packaging, right? 12:01:00 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-369-ge05c439 (34) 12:01:02 possibly irrelevnat 12:01:14 s/vna/van 12:01:37 !messages 12:01:37 No messages for mrwooster. 12:02:04 <|amethyst> wheals: no, that's something different 12:02:08 <|amethyst> wheals: and very very out of date 12:02:18 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:02:38 |amethyst: Seems to be working. Thanks. 12:02:56 Stable (0.16) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16.1-11-g651b585 12:04:28 <|amethyst> wheals: but we do do that for the manual (reST instead of markdown though) 12:04:45 Is there any (non-flavour) reason Ds can't go good? 12:05:25 <|amethyst> pretty much flavour, other than the TSO holy weapon thing (they wouldn't be able to use the top-tier ability) 12:05:47 that's just flavour too 12:06:08 <|amethyst> right, it wouldn't break anything if they could wield holy wrath 12:06:50 <|amethyst> likewise, it wouldn't break anything if good god worshippers could use weapons of draining or vampirism 12:07:45 <|amethyst> more generally, I'd say that "good" and "evil" are entirely flavour 12:07:58 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 12:08:05 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-371-g5ed5418: Remove some dead code 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5ed541847eec 12:08:05 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-372-gcac7fed: Unbrace 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cac7fed02548 12:08:08 <|amethyst> they have mechanical effects, but the mechanical effects aren't how we determine whether something counts as evil 12:09:16 -!- tingol4 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:11:09 |amethyst: I'm getting some submodule error when trying to rebuild 0.15 or older. 12:11:11 <|amethyst> e.g. Ely and TSO's food restrictions have almost no effect in-game, except maybe for a few races in one branch each (and even there it's not much of an effect) 12:11:16 Not that there is anything to update. 12:11:27 <|amethyst> Medar: hm, you use submodules? 12:11:43 <|amethyst> Medar: but, yeah, 0.15 and older submodules still point it git://gitorious which doesn't work 12:11:50 <|amethyst> s/it/at/ 12:12:02 That's probably it. 12:12:30 <|amethyst> once we update the submodules for github we'll go back and add a commit to 0.15 (and maybe 0.14 as well?) 12:12:54 <|amethyst> arguably we should go back to 0.10 since some servers go that far back 12:14:39 <|amethyst> updating submodules for github I think depends just on pushing the last few commits to crawl-sdl2 and friends 12:15:08 <|amethyst> since trunk and 0.16 refer to a detached head there 12:15:27 <|amethyst> (an "sdl2" branch that never got pushed I think) 12:16:59 |amethyst Ely and TSO are really annoying as a HO early and as a Hu it actually affects most the late game (Hell Knights, Vault Guards, Wizards...) 12:18:30 |amethyst my point was there's practical reason for Undead to not go good (Afflicted by Holy Word); Elyvilon is plain broken with no food clock, etc. 12:19:20 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:22 Zin's Food restriction is really harsh; but more fair, it doesn't affect different races differently. 12:19:27 <|amethyst> DS are also affected by holy word aren't they? 12:20:09 <|amethyst> the Ely food clock thing explains Mu and Vp but not Gh, and is not so much of an issue anymore anyway 12:20:31 <|amethyst> now that you're not expected to pacify every single monster 12:20:35 <|amethyst> "expected" 12:20:48 Maybe? There's less of a practical reason for them to be 'evil' though; the undead, I get; Ds is very...we put the label on them. 12:21:26 -!- kazimuth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:28 <|amethyst> well, in game terms I imagine they're 'unholy' rather than 'evil' 12:21:40 <|amethyst> these are the same gods that hate it if you summon an imp 12:21:44 <|amethyst> because the imp is unholy 12:22:12 <|amethyst> 'evil' and 'unholy' just mean 'things the "good" gods dislike' 12:22:28 <|amethyst> it's not really a moral judgment on our part 12:23:16 <|amethyst> the good gods believe in Always Chaotic Evil 12:23:24 <|amethyst> whether it's true or not, they act as though it is 12:23:41 <|amethyst> proving that (other than Beogh, god of racism) they are the real monsters 12:24:00 Why not relabel Ds as Chaotic (weak to silver and Zin hates); but making them unaffected by Holy Wrath and able to worship TSO and Elyvilon? 12:24:08 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-370-gf292aa4 (34) 12:24:53 <|amethyst> so they wouldn't be demonic anymore? 12:25:12 <|amethyst> I'd want to rename them if they are made not unholy 12:25:47 <|amethyst> but I don't see a fundamental problem with that 12:26:14 tentaclespawn 12:26:34 IDK; I just don't see the practical reason they are unholy; it just arbitrarily removes options from them. The powerful mutations is their real gimmick; they don't have anything that demonic about them. Not anymore than any other race. 12:26:42 <|amethyst> I don't think allowing Ds to worship TSO and Ely is important enough to actually *make* that change, but I don't think it's fundamentally flawed or anything 12:27:12 <|amethyst> perhaps the mutations aren't "demonic" themed enough 12:27:37 <|amethyst> but horns and claws and talons and powered by death/pain and demonic guardian are *supposed* to have a demonic feel 12:28:15 <|amethyst> hm 12:28:19 <|amethyst> cao rebuild is acting funny 12:28:28 <|amethyst> touch: failed to get attributes of `rltiles/tiledef-feat.o': No such file or directory 12:28:32 <|amethyst> next time it will work fine 12:28:42 <|amethyst> no fs errors in dmesg, disk isn't full 12:29:11 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-372-gcac7fed (34) 12:29:15 <|amethyst> it did that first for godpassive.o, then on the second try made it all the way to rltiles/tiledef-feat.o 12:29:28 <|amethyst> and on the third try just worked 12:29:45 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:32:21 -!- Sczcya has left ##crawl-dev 12:32:35 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:42 <|amethyst> oh duh 12:33:03 <|amethyst> I thought the lock was stuck so I forced it... it wasn't actually stuck 12:33:13 <|amethyst> so there were rebuilds running in parallel in the same dir :) 12:34:44 <|amethyst> I did a ps auxww | grep g++ and didn't see anything (which is why I thought the lock was stuck), but I guess it was compressing PNGs or something other than compiling 12:34:53 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:34:58 <|amethyst> fixed now anyway 12:40:46 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:41:55 <|amethyst> if we wanted to allow more races to worship more gods, here's how I would do it (purely for flavour): if an undead or ds worships a good god (or a Gr worships Yred), they get an extra prompt and if they say y, start out under penance. They can "redeem" themselves by climbing out of penance 12:42:24 <|amethyst> and maybe Ds get Zin penance every time they mutate :P 12:43:08 <|amethyst> not sure how gh and fedhas would interact though 12:43:21 <|amethyst> since you'd hurt yourself every time you pray... 12:44:07 You offfer a prayer to Fedhas. You die... 12:44:14 <|amethyst> That felt like a moral victory. 12:44:31 !lg * ktyp=moralwinning 12:44:31 No games for * (ktyp=moralwinning). 12:44:32 <|amethyst> (FR: "That felt like a morel victory.") 12:44:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:05 <|amethyst> I play under the assumption that I am supposed to read that message as "morel" anyway 12:45:15 <|amethyst> no idea if that was intentional or not though 12:46:29 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:47:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:03 |amethyst Hohonagget nagget nagget! 12:51:43 <|amethyst> btw, though this is less impressive than the two times there's been an explosion down the street 12:51:46 <|amethyst> http://www.kentucky.com/2015/03/31/3777469/cow-on-the-loose-near-the-university.html 12:51:55 <|amethyst> there was a loose cow on campus today 12:52:28 |amethyst ...a loose cow is strange to you? 12:52:30 <|amethyst> fortunately a member of the rodeo team (I shit you not) was on hand to help animal control catch it 12:52:48 <|amethyst> Bcadren: a loose cow in the middle of a city of 200000 is strange to me 12:52:56 <|amethyst> a loose cow where I grew up, not so much 12:53:14 <|amethyst> 300000 12:53:42 <|amethyst> "No one knows where the animal came from" 12:53:48 -!- mauris has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:53 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54:07 <|amethyst> the aliens have turned set the abduction rays to reverse 12:54:20 <|amethyst> s/turned // 12:54:25 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:59 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:33 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:57:19 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:44 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:59:41 -!- joof has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:44 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:06:16 |amethyst at least it wasn't a loaded goat. 13:08:14 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:58 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:23 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:33 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 13:16:50 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:48 One thing (worthwhile) I think was lost with Ely reform is that...there isn't really a god that lets Invo be your primary killdudes anymore. Nothing that spammable. 13:24:05 -!- Rawb has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:24:07 PewPewCrewMaster (L5 MiFi) (D:3) 13:24:21 -!- Nico___ has quit [Client Quit] 13:26:03 lesser destruction? 13:26:05 recite? 13:26:10 &rc pewpewcrewmaster 13:26:11 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.16/PewPewCrewMaster.rc 13:27:09 and I guess the other destruction isn't that piety intensive 13:27:33 you can't really kill things with recite or lesser destruction 13:27:56 Lesser can work, not as easily. Recite...doen't. It's spammable early; sure, but it doesn't directly kill things often. 13:28:22 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 13:32:34 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:01 Only way lesser would really work as primary killdudes is fast enough to do a lot of kiting, Spriggan, Bat form Vampire, etc. 13:33:35 -!- quik has quit [Quit: When you said what you wanna say and you know the way you wanna play, you'll be so high, you'll be flying] 13:35:01 well 13:35:05 lesser invo can kill things 13:35:10 it's spammable (up to your HP) 13:35:27 efficiency wasn't exactly a qualifier :v 13:36:04 Am I the only one that things if I god uses Invo, there should be good reason to train Invo all the way to 27? Because the break point where it stops doing anything would never be apparent to anyone. (Except with Sif, XP past Invo 24 doesn't do anything; heh) 13:37:00 Sif channeling: d(2+Invo/4) meaning last break point is 24. No reason to go higher. 13:37:25 I think oka is the only god that has an (practical) low breakpoint 13:37:48 maybe jiyva too 13:38:16 every other god continues to give returns up to 27 invo 13:38:28 also, there is a reason to train invo all the way to 27: titles :v 13:40:30 Qaz's Invos are almost broken compared to every other god. Inversely Makh's are pretty pitiful. It's ironic. Makh's passive makes him popular for entirety of late and post game; his most powerful Invo stops being useful...Vaults/Depths ish depending on your order. 13:41:02 is that a problem...? 13:42:13 it seems weird and I suppose it's not communicated the best to younger players. 13:42:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:09 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:02:16 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:04:11 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:51 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:08:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:09:29 CanOfWorms: oka's returns after his "breakpoint" are not really any worse than, say, lugonu's afaik 14:09:41 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:10:01 does oka actually use invo for anything other than fail rate? 14:10:06 duration 14:10:17 ah 14:10:42 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:53 likewise yred's invocations scale but not very impressively. i don't think there are any gods who let you train invo but give you nothing at all for raising it past whatever point 14:11:36 does jiyva require invo? 14:11:50 dunno. never had a jiyva game 14:11:53 ??jiyva 14:11:53 jiyva[1/3]: *: request jelly invocation; **: gain nutrition on slurps; ***: prayer effect that paralyses slimes in LOS for 5 piety, mutation gifts; ****: {slimify}, mp on slurps; *****: cure bad mutation invocation, hp on slurps; ******: possible friendly temporary slime if hit for > 25% maxhp, slime:6 walls removed 14:11:54 haha 14:11:55 Chei's only change failrate IIRC (thought it was odd when I read it, because I would have though it affected your Slouch damage). 14:12:10 Bcadren: duration of Step 14:12:10 duration of step 14:12:11 and strength of bend 14:12:51 I thought it was weird that Slouch damage was fixed rather than raising with Invo. 14:12:52 strength as in the number that gets rolled against the monster HD 14:12:56 CanOfWorms: apparently there are two jiyva inocations 14:13:34 I doubt cure badmut is influenced by invo 14:13:41 same for request jelly 14:13:49 maybe slimify's duration is affected 14:14:00 I think Jiyva doesn't let you train Invo at all anymore. 14:14:09 ok, so jiyva is not an invo god 14:14:45 Same with Ash. Invo used to affect Scry fail and Scry duration; now Ash doesn't train invo and Scry cannot fail with a duration based on piety. 14:16:04 CanofWorms: You could look it up :D 14:16:08 Qsource ability.cc 14:16:13 !source ability.cc 14:16:13 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ability.cc;hb=HEAD 14:16:29 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:37 !source jiyva_remove_bad_mutation() 14:16:37 Couldn't understand jiyva_remove_bad_mutation() 14:16:38 looks like jiyva's ability fail rates are determined by piety 14:16:42 !source jiyva_remove_bad_mutation 14:16:42 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc;hb=HEAD#l1642 14:16:48 yeah 14:16:59 slimify depends on piety 14:17:21 paralyze is random 14:17:24 curemut is random 14:17:28 well, random badmut 14:17:40 I do think Makh's Invos could use a boost so they are better in later game if you train Invocations. Even summoning 2's craps out around Depths. 14:18:07 that assumes that a player doesn't lean on makh's passives at all 14:18:19 which is arguably difficult to do 14:18:45 and while we're at it 14:18:53 what would the boosted abilities actually do to begin with 14:19:17 summoning most 1s could easily be actively detrimental to players 14:19:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:43 I mean it kind of turns training Invo into a sunk cost. Thinking long-game disencentizes ever training it. 14:20:02 that's not necessarily a problem 14:20:50 the underlying issue doesn't seem to be the power of the invocations 14:21:05 but the lack of transparency of the relationship between invocations and the power of the abilities 14:21:42 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:22:25 Major is low spellpower random level 5-6 spell. At max invo it varies from 83 to 137 spellpower. Far weaker than actually training the school (understandable); but pretty useless to get that high. 14:22:28 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:24:59 -!- bgiannan__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:12 For servants the Invo is only used for a Hostility check. *shrug* 14:25:18 well higher invoc reduces hostile servants 14:25:19 johnstein: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:25:20 yea 14:25:33 !hostileservant 10 14:25:34 ~ 8 % chance of hostile {lesser, greater} servant 14:25:39 -!- mauris_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:39 !hostileservant 27 14:25:40 ~ 3 % chance of hostile {lesser, greater} servant 14:25:57 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:58 johnstein that's...pretty badly diminished returns. 14:26:06 sure 14:26:14 Bcadren: most gods have pretty bad diminishing returns for invo 14:26:16 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:20 the ones who don't are the exception 14:28:19 Makh seems like the least inspired god there is. Random level 2-3 spell. Random 5-6 spell. And demon summoning...(same as Summon Demon AND Weakened Greater Demon [no chance at ones]). It's literally all spell effects with no invo you can't get from actual spells. 14:28:59 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:29:13 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:29:30 is makhleb one of the grandfathered gods? 14:32:06 Xom, Beogh, Trog, Oka and Makh are the oldest IIRC (Pre-SS). Ash replaced Divinations magic. Good gods replaced Holy Magic. (Both early SS). Then everything else is newer than that. IIRC. Oka has changed the most of those. 14:33:14 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:19 CanOfWorms: bear in mind that a good 90% of the information you're getting here is entirely made-up 14:34:19 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:34:29 ??? 14:34:39 from bcadren 14:34:44 I'm not sure I remember correctly. 14:34:59 you mean that last comment? 14:35:31 Oka used to literally give Might and Haste. (Now Heroism and Finesse) hah. 14:35:33 in general usually, but yeah 14:35:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:55 -!- bgiannan__ has left ##crawl-dev 14:36:59 -!- bgiannan__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:37:04 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:26 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:37:30 MarvinPA I never intentionally make stuff up. That one is legitimately hard to find though. 14:37:54 I know Divinations miscasts are still around because Ash replacing Divinations wasn't until 0.6-0.7ish. 14:38:32 What even were Holy miscasts? I know they have to have been a thing, but... 14:40:20 -!- Mottikins__ is now known as FaMott 14:40:23 Prior to 0.4 TSO gave permanent angels instead of summoning temporary ones. OK. Yea the Good gods are some of the oldest. 14:41:07 -!- Fangorn__ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:47:12 I was wrong that's on the 0.8 changelog. Ash is from 0.8. i can't find older changelogs than 0.8 though... 14:48:19 <|amethyst> ??changelog[1] 14:48:19 changelog[1/3]: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - often incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes. 14:48:30 <|amethyst> goes back to 0.1, as does the git history if you need more detail 14:48:37 <|amethyst> ??ancient 14:48:38 mikee[1/28]: Used to be a good player, nerfed in 0.6. Now is a greatplayer! 14:48:42 <|amethyst> ??crawl-ancient 14:48:42 crawl-ancient[1/1]: git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl-ancient.git contains 2.72, 4.00b26, {4.1}.2alpha, and {crawl alternative} 14:49:08 <|amethyst> there are some pre-dcss changelogs in some of those branches 14:49:51 <|amethyst> !learn edit crawl-ancient[1] s@gitorious.org/crawl@github.com/crawl-ref@ 14:49:52 crawl-ancient[1/1]: git://github.com/crawl-ref/crawl-ancient.git contains 2.72, 4.00b26, {4.1}.2alpha, and {crawl alternative} 14:51:16 oh, the move to github happened, |amethyst? 14:51:36 ??grey elf 14:51:36 grey elf[1/1]: A race of elves very like deep elves with very good air magic. Removed far back in the mists of time (also known as around 0.6). 14:51:56 if you know how to dig in the repository then you can find quite a lot of things 14:52:01 <|amethyst> amalloy: it's happening 14:52:49 -!- causative has quit [Changing host] 14:52:49 |amethyst: will issue-tracking stay on mantis exclusively, or will i be able to file issues through github issues? 14:52:50 <|amethyst> amalloy: auxiliary stuff like crawl-ancient doesn't need anything else to happen, so it's effectively migrated already 14:52:57 <|amethyst> amalloy: mantis exclusively 14:53:17 <|amethyst> we don't want to divide our bug database or lose our bug history again 14:54:09 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:54:12 *nod* makes sense. sucks from my perspective as someone who doesn't really care about the bugs i haven't filed, but i realize that is not the broadest persoective to take 14:54:44 Lugonu: 0.2; Beogh: 0.3; Jivya, Fedhas, Chei: 0.6; Ash: 0.8; Dith: 0.14; Qaz: 0.15; Ru, Gozag: 0.16. All others are pre-DCSS. 14:55:27 Could have swore Beogh was pre-DCSS because of the mentions of B.O.G. being brought up multiple places. 14:55:37 gozag is actually 0.15 14:55:42 except he wasn't included 14:55:49 It's not in 0.15 stable... 14:56:07 <|amethyst> by that argument lava orcs are in 0.16 :P 14:56:15 -!- zxc232 has left ##crawl-dev 14:56:29 I guess other than ones originally in the game dpeg made the most gods. Fedhas, Chei and Gozag are all his, right? ...any others? 14:56:31 <|amethyst> (okay, that's not quite analogous...) 14:56:46 well barely anything changed between 0.15-a gozag and 0.16 release gozag 14:57:03 besides the shop changes which were nice 14:57:07 <|amethyst> He and haranp designed the first nemelex rewrite 14:58:00 <|amethyst> (the one that made Nemelex god of vacuum cleaners) 14:58:24 I still think Makhleb could use a revision; if for no other reason than the Invocations being literally the same as spell effects. Makh is TSO, with weaker invocations; but a stronger passive. TSO is the better made god. hah 14:59:04 well except the part where TSO piety is rather scarce ho ho ho 14:59:07 TSO is annoying 14:59:13 Makhleb just doesn't give a shit 14:59:20 big difference 14:59:22 makhleb is basically atheism+ 14:59:33 except you also get some abilities you may or may not have use for 14:59:34 So is Sif 14:59:37 Worship Makhleb until ~depths; then switch to TSO. 14:59:41 And a bunch of other gods 15:00:04 And I think that's completely fine 15:00:16 <|amethyst> okawaru is atheism + yard sale 15:00:26 Sif's channeling is a fair bit better than other sources, at least. Only one good Invo, but it's a good invo. Also book gifts...geez. access to every spell by your second rune. 15:00:39 why all these weird comparisons 15:01:18 <_miek> why would you switch from makhleb to tso? 15:01:25 good question 15:01:31 (obviously for the rN+++ for tomb!!!) 15:02:22 That's some of it; and you get HP and MP on kills for most of extended; less than Makh's +HP, but TSO's Invos will actually be helpful. DIVINE WARRIOR, BIZZATCH 15:02:29 can you take this to ##crawl 15:02:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:47 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:59 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:56 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:42 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 15:14:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 15:22:15 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:53 what is NSUBST in vault descriptions? i've been able to figure out most of the other stuff just by reading some examples 15:26:53 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:26:53 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:28:10 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:10 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 15:28:11 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 15:28:11 is it like...numeric substitution? eg i'm looking at lemuel_halls_of_wrath, and i see `NSUBST: 1 = 6:2 / *=1`. does this mean something like, replace exactly 6 of the 1s with 2s? 15:28:11 i think docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt explains it relatively well 15:28:32 yeah 15:28:40 (and then replace the rest of the 1s with 1s) 15:30:15 interesting. what would it do if not for the "replace 1 with 1"? 15:32:13 break i think, probably that's just to make sure you're precise in specifying what you want 15:32:37 would `NSUBST: 1 = 6:2 / *=3` then imply replace 6 of the 1s with 2s and the rest with 3s 15:32:51 <|amethyst> yes 15:33:31 coolbeans 15:33:46 yeah, i believe it spits out an error if the nsusbt doesn't cover everything 15:33:46 ontoclasm: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:33:51 !messages 15:33:52 (1/2) gammafunk said (2d 13h 29m 11s ago): Congrats on winning the best class! 15:33:54 !messages 15:33:55 (1/1) Bloax said (22h 56m 7s ago): https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9597 hi 15:34:09 <|amethyst> hm 15:34:17 -!- hellodotgif has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:22 <|amethyst> from testing it looks like it just doesn't substitute if it runs out of numbers 15:34:38 and yes, the last one was very important 15:34:45 <|amethyst> so NSUBST: 1 = 6:2 / *=1 looks like it would do the same thing as NSUBST: 1 = 6:2 15:35:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:41 Bloax: i'm sorry, i'm not making anges into shantae 15:35:45 ;-; 15:35:59 it's a painful decision to have to make 15:36:16 i mean it's the one kawaii tile i did and it's not going in 15:36:39 frances and duvessa 15:36:55 the dblades look pretty good though 15:37:38 well i wouldn't call those kawaii 15:37:50 just not dark as per usual 15:38:53 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:37 MarvinPA: speaking of syntax.txt, i noticed this line that i think is obsolete post-0.14: "plus:N" and "plus2:N" set the item pluses for weapons, armour, jewellery (such as rings of intelligence or slaying), and throwing nets. 15:39:55 plus and plus2 were for the two halves of how slaying worked, so plus2 doesn't exist anymore, right? 15:40:35 yeah 15:41:14 -!- mrwooster has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:57 <|amethyst> yeah, plus2 doesn't actually do anything now it seems 15:42:20 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:42:24 <|amethyst> I mean, even on the objects that do use the plus2 field for something, the item spec tag doesn't actually work 15:42:28 does it even get parsed? yeah 15:42:33 <|amethyst> it gets parsed 15:42:36 <|amethyst> and sets a prop 15:42:40 <|amethyst> but that prop is never read 15:43:09 !tell Lasty_ Y) +8 lajatang of Neurosis {vamp, rF+++ rC+ Str-4 SInv} Critical hit!!!!!! 15:43:09 Bloax: OK, I'll let lasty_ know. 15:43:17 -!- kuniqs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:43:41 <|amethyst> (uses for the field that you might theoretically want to set in wizmode: skill points from a manual, charge cap for a rod, maybe zapcount for a wand?) 15:43:50 <|amethyst> (but you can &t so no big deal there) 15:44:00 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:10 -!- Zigurun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:42 <|amethyst> BTW, why oh why are rod charges in plus and rod plus in special 15:44:43 <|amethyst> ? 15:45:00 <|amethyst> I guess at one point in time rods didn't have rod_plus? 15:45:07 the snark's cowboy days? :P 15:45:15 0.1 was a wild time... 15:52:28 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:52:37 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:59 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:22 -!- tasonir has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54:30 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:57:41 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:58:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:15 -!- Napcat has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:00:26 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:48 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:01:21 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:50 -!- serq has quit [Quit: und weg...] 16:02:13 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:42 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:19 hm 16:06:47 |amethyst: any idea why the trunk builds haven't started updating again after the tourney (cf #9537)? 16:07:54 <|amethyst> nope 16:08:45 <|amethyst> for android and mac it's because there are no android/mac autobuilds 16:09:06 <|amethyst> running update-mingw-all-trunk.sh on CDO now 16:10:00 <|amethyst> hm 16:10:05 <|amethyst> but it is set to run automatically 16:12:43 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:19 <|amethyst> ohh 16:17:24 <|amethyst> two things 16:18:02 <|amethyst> 1. the README.txt -> README.md thing broke CDO installer builds too it seems? 16:18:44 <|amethyst> 2. the trunk page generator was still looking for "0.16" in trunk build names 16:19:17 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 16:20:02 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:11 !tell chequers should there be a link to http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ on the new download page? ( http://crawl.develz.org/download.htm ) going through the blog link to find the second download page is pretty unintuitive 16:20:12 minmay: OK, I'll let chequers know. 16:20:23 <|amethyst> okay, page is updated 16:20:34 <|amethyst> last working build was yesterday 16:20:39 haha tabstorm is complaining about getting a +8 pda on d:4 16:21:35 wheals: shocking I know... 16:21:38 .gmap -2 -tv 16:21:45 141/142. zlionsfan, XL21 HOBe, T:49108 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:22:07 minmay: yes, i need to poke npkin 16:22:07 chequers: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:22:18 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:20 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:22:22 I figured someone had probably pointed that out already 16:22:29 nope 16:22:30 but just in case 16:22:35 chequers: do you just need to add a link? 16:22:39 if so I can do that 16:22:45 yes please! 16:22:59 but I want to put the homepage on a dedicated domain too 16:23:00 ok, I have a fix by |amethyst for the apt commands to merge anyhow 16:23:13 |amethyst: cao scoring for 0.16 cpo still not there? 16:23:16 chequers: btw did you write the tee command on the download page originally? 16:23:22 the tee command for sources.list 16:23:23 no 16:23:26 ah, ok 16:23:34 I wonder how long that's been borked 16:23:39 i may have copied incorrectly re: the > thing, but i dunno 16:23:44 check archive.org :) 16:23:52 are any of you people "dowan" on tavern, btw 16:24:10 chequers: well the original download page didn't have a command for sources.list 16:24:11 it's probably Arrhythmia 16:24:23 <|amethyst> chequers: hm, no, they should be there 16:24:28 -!- Krenium is now known as Chunes 16:24:30 since he and dowan "happened" to post about the trunk builds not being updated at the same time... 16:24:30 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:08 |amethyst: oh, i just read an old !message 16:25:11 my bad 16:25:18 <|amethyst> aha 16:25:19 wheals: it's probably not arrhythmia 16:25:32 gammafunk: are you questioning my flawless detective work 16:25:35 yes 16:25:41 ouch 16:25:43 that hurts, man 16:26:21 <|amethyst> Napkin: I left a change sitting uncommitted in ~/source/mingw32/crawl/update.sh because I wasn't sure if you preferred a new commit or to amend the existing one 16:26:31 dangit 16:26:35 forgot to watch my tv 16:26:46 btw, it's april 1!! 16:26:47 .gmap -2 -tv 16:26:50 commit something funnnyy 16:26:55 141/142. zlionsfan, XL21 HOBe, T:49108 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:27:03 !cmd !commit 16:27:04 Command: !commit => !commitby ${nick} ${*} 16:27:12 !cmd !commitby 16:27:12 Command: !commitby => .echo $(let (hash (randhex 7)) "03${1} * 0.17-a0-999-g$hash: ${*:-do stuff} 10(in the future, 42 files, 777+ 666-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=${hash}") 16:27:30 !commit deadbeef Remove chequers 16:27:31 03gammafunk * 0.17-a0-999-g3c8be23: deadbeef Remove chequers 10(in the future, 42 files, 777+ 666-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3c8be23 16:27:34 oh 16:27:40 for april fool's this year were not going to do an april fool's joke 16:27:40 !commit Remove chequers 16:27:40 03gammafunk * 0.17-a0-999-g4099ea8: Remove chequers 10(in the future, 42 files, 777+ 666-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4099ea8 16:27:56 nice, I don't have to make up the hash 16:28:04 <|amethyst> Napkin: I don't know if any of your other build/update scripts refer to README.txt, but if so they need to be updated too for the rename to README.md 16:28:12 i should make a chessboard minivault 16:28:15 probably not 16:28:34 since it's hard to keep the chess pieces stationary, if those are to be monsters 16:28:46 <|amethyst> statues! 16:28:53 <|amethyst> that you can push! 16:28:58 do those fully obscure the floor though 16:29:00 <|amethyst> but only according to the rules of chess! 16:29:01 NO 16:29:07 <|amethyst> I was thinking 16:29:08 <|amethyst> ... 16:29:09 <|amethyst> .8. 16:29:10 <|amethyst> ... 16:29:12 how do you push in a knight move? 16:29:13 <|amethyst> would be one square 16:29:15 chequers: you could put the monsters in boxes 16:29:23 but it'd be kind of weird 16:29:32 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ooh, and teleport them around 16:29:36 it'd be huge 16:29:43 <|amethyst> elliptic buff 16:29:46 i think i'll just do alternating floor tile colours ok? 16:29:57 sure, a decor vault 16:30:04 place some granite statues maybe 16:30:15 and perhaps one or two statue monsters with some chance, if you like 16:30:18 but then it'd not be decor 16:30:27 bbl 16:30:39 <|amethyst> FR: orange crystal chess 16:30:58 .gmap -2 -tv 16:31:05 141/142. zlionsfan, XL21 HOBe, T:49108 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:32:28 <|amethyst> Napkin: oh, I guess I have to commit because of branch changes... I guess you can rebase it down if you want 16:32:53 goot waiting to quaff heal 16:33:02 gonna have to watch that from the beginning of the vault 16:33:07 .gmap -2 -ttyrec 16:33:19 141/142. zlionsfan, XL21 HOBe, T:49108: http://dobrazupa.org/ttyrec/zlionsfan/2015-03-28.21:02:34.ttyrec.bz2 16:33:19 .gmap -2 16:33:25 141/142. zlionsfan the Slayer (L21 HOBe of Trog), slain by a tengu reaver (a +0 dire flail) on Depths:3 (gammafunk_depths_water_palace) on 2015-03-29 01:47:45, with 325821 points after 49108 turns and 4:03:42. 16:33:46 splay 16:33:48 t 16:35:58 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:00 dang 16:37:02 F - the ring of Ozihil {MP+9 Str+6 Int+6 Dex+4} 16:37:30 gammafunk: ring of Chei 16:37:34 seems so 16:39:02 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:39:50 what's the deal with MP/HP+9? I think I remember seeing a commit that set 9 as the value but why is it always the same value? 16:40:07 ontoclasm: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/not_agnes.png now you've done goofed it 16:40:09 ring of magical power as a base type seems likely 16:40:21 trying to cull unnecessary variance? 16:40:31 who knew spriggans could be clowns 16:41:00 just klowning around 16:44:25 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:44:26 nice 16:44:39 he got throw just a few tiles further into the central chamber 16:45:05 it's funny because he was a very careful player in terms of positioning but just took a lot of unecessary risk 16:47:58 .depths-primary 16:47:58 807 games for * (br=depths lvl>1 lvl<5 kmap!~entry kmap!~uniq !depths-encompass kmap!=): 31x grunt_twisty_corner, 25x minmay_octagon_city, 24x grunt_crosshair, 22x minmay_central_circle, 21x hangedman_box_tower, 18x little_maze_vault, 18x grunt_bent_corner, 17x hangedman_arch_fort, 17x grunt_house_of_mirrors, 17x grunt_x_marks_the_spot, 15x evilmike_negative_zone, 13x Angbandy_vault, 13x grunt_arc... 16:48:15 can't compete with those that actually place 16:48:24 !vault grunt_twisty_corner 16:48:25 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large_abstract.des;hb=HEAD#l1293 16:48:31 that's a good one 16:48:38 lots of shrikes from its 8 bands 16:48:51 ah, yeah 16:49:13 man I should add an objstat option to place a specific map 16:49:35 something like -obstat Depths -map grunt_twisty_corner 16:50:08 would be neat to see what the enemy distribution actually is 16:50:15 oh I could just weight it too 16:50:27 let me try that with this vault 16:50:31 see how shriked we get 16:52:36 is there a wizmode option to disable most full debug messages these days? 16:53:30 you can &^q but that doesn't actually let you disable all of them 16:54:07 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:27 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:55:57 yeah i'm not sure what "[0] normal" does but it doesn't disable plain dprfs 16:55:59 If it's at least tolerable so that every action doesn't have endless spam, that'd be nice 16:58:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:28 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:35 hey gammafunk did you end up applying my weirdly-formatted patch? :x 17:01:11 i don't remember how that happened, i guess i used git diff instead of git format-patch or something, but someone (i think doy?) said "git apply" should still be able to handle it 17:01:18 otherwise i will look into making a new one 17:01:20 oh, no I didn't try 17:01:26 (re: this thing https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9494 ) 17:01:28 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:31 mauris_: would you mind remaking with git format-patch? 17:01:43 that way you get proper attribution and you know for next time :) 17:01:43 ok, i'll do that! 17:01:58 the patch itself looked ok, so I'll just look it over, compile, and test 17:02:05 oh need to see if it works in webtiles 17:02:14 think it would 17:02:32 but I'm not sure if textcolour is passed over json or encoded in the js 17:02:44 for the hud, anyhow 17:03:22 if it needs specific webtiles support, that's generally easy to do anyhow, but it will delay things 17:03:46 apparently I was misinterperating mapstat output, as the vault count includes vetoes 17:05:17 i think it would need to have it since i know ozo's does 17:05:54 yeah, I recall HUD stuff having a lot of specific js stuff 17:06:25 -!- ythm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:08:20 oh, i found another patch lying around i should make an issue for >_> https://bpaste.net/raw/4f79365948bb 17:08:24 i guess this one is the right format? 17:08:35 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:09:53 (and now git pull won't merge anymore, dang it! how do i tell git to just ignore all the changes i made locally and retrieve the new HEAD?) 17:10:05 mauris_: do you want those changes nuked? 17:10:09 or do you want them saved somewhere 17:10:25 and were those changes commited 17:10:33 i have them in that .patch file; does that count as saving them? 17:10:34 git reset --hard will nuke any uncommited changes 17:10:39 and they're the most recent commit, yeah 17:10:49 !serverstats t0.16 17:10:51 97853 games for * (t0.16): 20087x cao [1118], 20411x cszo [838], 10921x cbro [369], 3389x clan [261], 4262x cxc [232], 3285x cwz [172], 2252x lld [75], 1430x cpo [58], 31816x cdo [46] 17:10:51 so you want to nuke that commit? 17:10:54 !serverstats t0.15 17:10:56 64040 games for * (t0.15): 18660x cao [1072], 20967x cszo [761], 6176x clan [273], 10976x ckr [207], 5019x cbro [116], 2241x cdo [86], lld [1] 17:11:05 right 17:11:39 if so git reset --hard HEAD~1 to nuke the most recent commit 17:11:58 !lg * cbro t0.16 s=day(start) 17:11:59 10921 games for * (cbro t0.16): 199x 20150313, 547x 20150314, 492x 20150315, 584x 20150316, 671x 20150317, 573x 20150318, 637x 20150319, 606x 20150320, 609x 20150321, 609x 20150322, 941x 20150323, 673x 20150324, 724x 20150325, 713x 20150326, 986x 20150327, 882x 20150328, 475x 20150329 17:12:07 !lg * cbro t0.16 s=day(start) -graph 17:12:08 10921 games for * (cbro t0.16): https://shalott.org/graphs/f880fc11071d517d6f1a21db8a8c0744cfda5472.html 17:12:15 mauris_: that second patch looks like it's in the right format 17:12:16 !lg * cbro t0.15 s=day(start) 17:12:17 5019 games for * (cbro t0.15): 88x 20140829, 246x 20140830, 193x 20140831, 247x 20140901, 248x 20140902, 393x 20140903, 540x 20140904, 237x 20140905, 395x 20140906, 309x 20140907, 407x 20140908, 308x 20140909, 284x 20140910, 410x 20140911, 255x 20140912, 197x 20140913, 262x 20140914 17:12:27 !lg * cbro t0.15 s=day(start) -graph 17:12:29 5019 games for * (cbro t0.15): https://shalott.org/graphs/255e1f5e9bb322d94424bca2886d03e29c4afa30.html 17:12:44 huh, i really wonder what i did wrong the first time 17:13:20 wheals: guess how many caustic shrikes grunt_twisty_corner places on average 17:13:28 !lg * t0.16 s=day(start),src -graph 17:13:30 97853 games for * (t0.16): https://shalott.org/graphs/504143ed1c2e055268ca1821ce67a6fdddad5b12.html 17:14:04 mean, min, max, sd: 5.05 0 20 4.58 17:14:07 er 17:14:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:14:12 20 good min 17:14:25 max 17:14:29 5.05, 0, 20, 4.58 17:14:56 oh good, and 50% chance torpor snail 17:14:59 hopefully those place together 17:15:20 fr torpor shrikes 17:15:37 you'll see about as many caustic shrikes in that vault 17:15:41 as you will plain yaktaurs 17:15:48 speed 30 and they slow you while in los 17:15:51 and the slow stacks 17:16:04 ontoclasm are you ashamed at what you've caused yet :-( 17:16:11 never 17:16:24 no regrets, so remorse 17:16:57 show no mercy 17:17:06 ooh torpor shrikes 17:17:13 yessss 17:17:18 also, caustic shrikes are bastards 17:17:28 who made them? Lasty ? 17:17:44 (I know they got adjusted a lot) 17:17:44 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:47 deep troll, yaktaur, caustic shrike, hell knight, ugly thing 17:17:48 5.83, 5.55, 5.05, 4.31, 3.48 17:17:51 the top 5 17:17:55 <_miek> yeah Lasty made the caustic shrikes 17:17:56 one of these things is not like the other! 17:18:04 i believe they were originally some terrible nightmare of lasty's, yes 17:18:19 <_miek> although someone else did the shard shrikes 17:18:20 I like them better when there's only 1 or 2 17:18:31 when he was a child a bird attacked him and the trauma remains to this day 17:18:49 fr make shrikes giant so i can make a half dozen shrike simulacra each corpse instead of only one each corpse 17:18:59 I kinda wish there was a way to tactically repair corrosion 17:19:25 you could make it like barbs, where if you pass turns it ends more quickly 17:20:05 just need a non-magical !cancel that works on barbs and corrosion, obviously 17:20:23 maybe call it a potion of cancellation 17:20:28 and make it cancel all status effects ever 17:20:39 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:20 !tell Lasty mean, min, max, sd of caustic shrikes occurring when grunt_twisty_corner places on Depths:4: 5.05, 0, 20, 4.58 17:21:21 gammafunk: OK, I'll let lasty know. 17:21:41 so sad I'll probably never get to see the 20 shrike vault 17:21:55 grunt_shrike_strike 17:22:07 shrike_shrine 17:22:54 ??ozocubus armour 17:22:54 ozocubus armour ~ ozocubu's armour[1/2]: In 0.15, an extra 5 + 4*pow/50 AC (6 + 7*pow/50 if in ice form) lasting for 18 + 2d(power) turns. Incompatible with Stoneskin and armour with ER >= 5, but DOES work on the undead and bodily transformed. Getting hit by anything fiery will lower the duration remaining. 17:23:13 ??ozocubu's armour[2 17:23:13 ozocubu's armour[2/2]: In 0.14-, gave 4 + ice/3 AC; 5 + ice*7/12 if in ice form. 17:23:25 well that's nice honey, don't tell me the spell level 17:23:40 3 17:23:45 Now let's see grunt_bent_corner 17:23:53 ah 17:23:59 use ?/armour 17:24:07 er, ?/sarmour 17:24:09 I bet this one is rarer though, given it's irregular shape 17:24:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:20 -!- Big-guy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:24:31 twisty corner only successfully placed 10 / 24 times 17:24:45 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:35 %git 17:25:35 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-372-gcac7fed: Unbrace 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cac7fed02548 17:25:35 Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:26:06 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-372-gcac7fed (34) 17:26:45 !learn e ozocubu's_armour s/In 0.15, a/A/ 17:26:45 Use: !learn edit ozocubu's_armour[NUM] s/// 17:26:48 !learn e ozocubu's_armour[1] s/In 0.15, a/A/ 17:26:49 No change: regex `In 0.15, a` does not match `An extra 5 + 4*pow/50 AC (6 + 7*pow/50 if in ice form) lasting for 18 + 2d(power) turns. Incompatible with Stoneskin and armour with ER >= 5, but DOES work on the undead and bodily transformed. Getting hit by anything fiery will lower the duration remaining.` 17:26:50 otherwise i would be thinking of "replace sticks to snakes with ozo's armor" 17:27:03 too slow 17:27:16 ah, bout the same, 4.84, max 18, sd 4.28 17:27:32 fwiw, I'm wondering if the new mana regime is too harsh for early-game book starts. I'm contemplating adjusting the per spellcasting value to 1.5 and being okay with 27 Spellcasting giving high mp. Reactions? 17:27:55 since s2s as hilarious as it is doesn't really fit into modern-day dcss 17:28:10 is there a table to see how the start mp values have changed? 17:28:12 replace with wormform 17:28:13 and could use being retired to the history books 17:28:24 27 is a lot of xp admittedly 17:28:55 <|amethyst> that's also 5 extra MP at spc 10 and 10 extra at spc 20 17:28:59 gammafunk: no, but it's pretty easy to calculate 17:29:01 if you just want to improve early game maybe add a constant, or use spc+1, etc 17:29:12 !calc 27.0 * .20 17:29:12 5.4 17:29:13 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:29:24 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:25 Lasty: I guess, what's giving you this sense that things are worse, just looking at mp curves? 17:29:27 <|amethyst> yeah, if early game is the problem, a multiplicative increase isn't the solution 17:29:39 <|amethyst> because that's a bigger increase for higher levels than lower ones 17:30:46 yeah, bent_corner didn't generate vetoes only 1/4 times 17:31:06 vault placement ain't easy 17:31:32 and ozo's armor in book of changes would certainly be juicy 17:31:44 is there a commit with the old/new mp formulas, or does anybody know the change offhand? 17:31:45 Elementalists get 2 Spellcasting, so you start w/ 3mp, L2: 4 mp, L3: 5 mp, L4: 6 mp, etc. 17:31:54 instead of something like 3/4/6/7/9 17:32:36 The reason I bring it up is that I found myself with much less mp on a DeFE that I recently started, and while it was fine for me, I think it might be pretty rough for newbies 17:33:03 A flat bonus is rough because the issue isn't D1 mana, but rather D3-Lair mana 17:33:07 out of curiosity, at what point did you have much less? 17:33:10 <|amethyst> so no increasing spellcasting between L1 and L4 ? 17:33:14 newbies train more Spc than I do (did), so if getting more spc helps that is ok 17:33:15 in terms of xl, skill 17:33:22 |amethyst: I started raising it a little after XL4 17:33:23 Lasty: the change was certainly a nerf in early-to-mid game for most characters... I sort of assumed that was intended given that people seemed very keen on linear MP growth 17:33:43 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:55 elliptic: from my perspective, linearity was its own reward; that necessarily meant nerfing early game or buffing late game, and I'm changing my thoughts about which is better 17:33:58 Lasty: like, you might as well just go back to the old formula if this isn't desired IMO 17:34:03 <|amethyst> ? 17:34:12 <|amethyst> "linearity was its own reward" 17:34:13 <|amethyst> why? 17:34:17 I don't agree with "linearity was its own reward", yeah 17:34:42 elliptic: I'm open to the possibility of reverting, but I wanted to try this out and mess with the numbers to see if it could hit a slot where it feels better 17:35:16 the formula before was incomprehensible and had semi-random limits, and only rewarded small investments into Spellcasting. 17:35:26 "semi-random"? 17:35:32 Replacing that with some clear and predictable is inherently better imo 17:35:48 not really sure how much of a balance problem letting spellcasters get their solid reserves of mp would be 17:35:50 semi-random in the sense of "they seem to have been chosen more or less at random" 17:36:05 Lasty: maybe they were chosen for balance 17:36:22 elliptic: perhaps they were! Maybe they were perfect as they were. And if so, we should definitely revert. 17:36:38 I agree that there is some benefit in having a simpler formula, but this doesn't necessarily mean "linear" to me 17:36:43 elliptic: fair enough 17:36:50 gammafunk: ugh, i can't get "patch" to run on cygwin and it looks like the thing won't merge anymore anyway because someone changed something in options.cc, i give up for now until i'm back on linux where i can actually compile crawl >_< 17:37:17 elliptic: I'm not wedded to what I implemented, or to linearity per se. But I do want clean and simple, and I want something that feels less arbitrarily limiting. 17:37:29 Lasty: how are spellcasters that train spc along with their other schools from the start? 17:37:43 rchandra: a bit low around XL6 or so 17:37:50 and fairly low around xl10 17:38:01 the old formula gave huge returns at that spot on the curve 17:38:02 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:38:25 mauris_: don't worry about it, it's best to get the patch working when you can compile properly, and there's no rush or cutoff or anything this early into 0.17 17:38:42 yeah, probably 17:38:47 I mean, maybe the current formula giving less mp at low levels is fine. Book starts are already pretty good. 17:39:20 he he 17:40:21 elliptic: it sounds like you're inclined to revert. Do you think it's working badly so far? 17:40:35 kinda early to revert if you ask me 17:40:40 Lasty: i played a huie for testing 17:40:46 my thoughts were "wow where is my mp at" 17:41:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:25 -!- seshions_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:32 Lasty: no (I haven't played it), but I think the natural solution to "early-to-midgame mp is too low but lategame mp isn't" is not "increase the slope and give lategame characters 65 MP" but rather "increase the slope and add a stepdown" 17:41:41 at which point it is fairly similar to the old formula 17:43:14 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:05 well, my proposal would only gove 65 mana to characters w/ 25 spellcasting, and shouldn't players with absurd spellcasting get a lot of mana? 17:44:11 Lasty: basically I just think that we shouldn't be set on "the MP formula must be a linear function of XL and spellcasting" 17:44:27 s/gove/give/ 17:45:06 Lasty: are lategame casters too weak and run out of MP too easily? 17:45:15 but I'm open to exploring something like what you describe if a linear function can't be made to work 17:45:17 Lasty: if not, why are we giving them ~15 more MP? 17:45:44 Lasty: I want an actual reason for giving them a lot more MP, not just "it makes the formula pretty" 17:46:02 it ties them less to cboe/sublimation/channelling 17:46:08 elliptic: no, but are late-game casters made much more strong by ~15 more MP for the ones who invest heavily in a spell that doesn't otherwise particularly reward heavy investment? 17:46:19 huh? 17:46:33 what does "the ones who invest heavily in a spell that doesn't otherwise particularly reward heavy investment" even mean 17:46:41 I have no clue what you are talking about 17:46:44 er, skill, not spell 17:46:46 maybe spell = spellschool = spellcasting? 17:46:52 Lasty: um 17:46:53 the skill being spellcasting 17:47:00 Lasty: spellcasting skill is already really really good 17:47:06 i think spellcasting is actually pretty good though if you are a primary late game caster 17:47:27 late game you likely have a lot of schools, so the spellpower effect and tha spell levels get used 17:48:03 you usually get 25+ spellcasting? 17:48:24 !lg * twentyfiveskills~~spellcasting 17:48:25 Unknown field: twentyfiveskills 17:48:26 fr 17:49:10 eventually for spell levels, sure. 20+ more reasonable 17:49:17 Lasty: a decent amount of the time at least, and I get 20+ spellcasting a lot (certainly more than I raise any other single magic skill to 20) 17:49:37 Lasty: there's nothing magical about 25+ as a breakpoint 17:51:11 my 10 rune dsie had 20 fighting, spc, evo with 21 ice, 22 conj, 23 invo as higher skills. 17:51:28 !lg * t sklev>=20 s=sk 17:51:28 3702 games for * (t sklev>=20): 728x Fighting, 666x Axes, 286x Unarmed Combat, 280x Maces & Flails, 245x Invocations, 208x Stealth, 176x Dodging, 169x Polearms, 154x Armour, 130x Spellcasting, 105x Shields, 93x Long Blades, 79x Conjurations, 65x Evocations, 57x Earth Magic, 48x Air Magic, 42x Bows, 23x Translocations, 22x Fire Magic, 18x Summonings, 17x Crossbows, 17x Short Blades, 15x Necromancy,... 17:51:55 !lg rchandra dsie won 17:51:56 in tourney spellcasting was the most common magical maxskill 17:51:56 1. hyperrchandra the Genius of the Arcane (L27 DsIE of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 10 runes on 2015-03-18 05:17:41, with 6530904 points after 120395 turns and 20:12:51. 17:52:02 ofc the best god 17:53:30 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:54:01 sif is pretty obnoxious early since I often want to slow down my book skills (for some fighting/defense/melee) at the time I get a god 17:54:25 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:55:37 i do think the current situation is not ideal, and I think making a change would be good. 17:56:25 It sounds like you'd prefer not to substantially increase late game mp, which is fair. What do you think would be a good stepdown plan? 17:56:27 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:03 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:57:40 -!- hhkb has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:34 Lasty: I'd probably try something like stepdown(cur_formula_with_slopes_tweaked, some_step_size), but I'd have to play around with the various parameters and see what it looked like 17:59:47 elliptic: spellcasting being the most common maxskill is perhaps a bit misleading, isn't it? even if it were like 5x more common to max your main-damage spellschool than to max spellcasting it'd still be more popular, simply because more builds involve spellcasting than involve, say, fire magic 18:00:30 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:00:55 amalloy: sure, but the point remains that plenty of people find it worthwhile to raise spellcasting high (because why wouldn't they, it is really good :P) 18:01:33 amalloy: it doesn't have to actually be your highest skill for you to benefit from buffs to it, after all 18:01:42 !lg * t sklev>=20 s=sk cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz s=cls 18:01:43 Too many grouping terms (extra: s=cls) 18:01:57 !lg * t sklev>=20 cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz s=cls,sk 18:01:58 650 games for * (t sklev>=20 cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz): 102x Fire Elementalist (22x Conjurations, 20x Spellcasting, 12x Axes, 10x Fighting, 7x Invocations, 6x Fire Magic, 5x Dodging, 3x Unarmed Combat, 2x Shields, 2x Earth Magic, 2x Maces & Flails, 2x Air Magic, 2x Evocations, 2x Armour, Polearms, Necromancy, Stealth, Translocations, Staves), 96x Conjurer (24x Conjurations, 20x Spellcasting,... 18:02:27 well SC still up there 18:02:47 !lg * t won sklev>=20 cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz s=cls,sk 18:02:48 382 games for * (t won sklev>=20 cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz): 51x Fire Elementalist (8x Fighting, 7x Spellcasting, 7x Conjurations, 7x Invocations, 5x Axes, 3x Unarmed Combat, 2x Maces & Flails, 2x Armour, 2x Dodging, Stealth, Earth Magic, Shields, Translocations, Fire Magic, Necromancy, Air Magic, Evocations), 49x Earth Elementalist (21x Earth Magic, 9x Fighting, 5x Dodging, 3x Shields, 2x Ar... 18:03:12 !lg . won s=sk 18:03:13 83 games for kvaak (won): 24x Dodging, 18x Fighting, 7x Unarmed Combat, 7x Armour, 7x Long Blades, 6x Invocations, 4x Polearms, 2x Conjurations, 2x Axes, 2x Charms, 2x Air Magic, Transmutations, Summonings 18:03:22 hooray for unspellcasting \o/ 18:03:23 !lg . won s=sk 18:03:24 80 games for Lasty (won): 17x Fighting, 9x Unarmed Combat, 7x Invocations, 5x Necromancy, 5x Air Magic, 5x Dodging, 4x Earth Magic, 4x Conjurations, 4x Stealth, 3x Long Blades, 3x Armour, 2x Summonings, 2x Crossbows, 2x Polearms, Maces & Flails, Fire Magic, Evocations, Spellcasting, Throwing, Ice Magic, Bows, Hexes 18:03:28 !lg . won s=sk 18:03:28 32 games for Bloax (won): 12x Fighting, 9x Unarmed Combat, 3x Armour, 3x Dodging, Air Magic, Maces & Flails, Spellcasting, Invocations, Long Blades 18:04:27 !lg * t sklev>=20 cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz (( sk~~magic || sk=Spellcasting )) s=cls,sk 18:04:28 213 games for * (t sklev>=20 cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz ((sk~~magic || sk=Spellcasting))): 38x Earth Elementalist (34x Earth Magic, 4x Spellcasting), 38x Wizard (25x Spellcasting, 6x Fire Magic, 5x Air Magic, 2x Earth Magic), 37x Conjurer (20x Spellcasting, 5x Fire Magic, 5x Air Magic, 4x Earth Magic, 3x Ice Magic), 30x Fire Elementalist (20x Spellcasting, 6x Fire Magic, 2x Earth Magic, 2x Air... 18:05:00 still too many skills but yeah 18:05:23 !lg * t sklev>=20 won cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz (( sk~~magic || sk=Spellcasting )) s=cls,sk 18:05:24 101 games for * (t sklev>=20 won cls=FE|IE|Cj|Ne|Su|EE|AE|VM|Wz ((sk~~magic || sk=Spellcasting))): 23x Earth Elementalist (21x Earth Magic, 2x Spellcasting), 18x Wizard (13x Spellcasting, 2x Air Magic, 2x Fire Magic, Earth Magic), 13x Air Elementalist (10x Air Magic, 2x Spellcasting, Fire Magic), 12x Conjurer (4x Spellcasting, 3x Air Magic, 2x Ice Magic, 2x Fire Magic, Earth Magic), 10x Fire Eleme... 18:05:48 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:52 Lasty: so I've won the argument with my sequell query, what now dev?! 18:05:55 it seems like having spellcasting as your max skill is more common on characters that die 18:06:02 gammafunk: now I retire 18:06:07 rip 18:06:07 rip 18:06:16 it's almost never my max skill but it'll be high on a lategame spellcaster 18:06:24 *snigger* 18:06:32 !lg . Te-- won -log 18:06:32 2. BLOAX, XL27 TeMo, T:73860: http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/BLOAX/morgue-BLOAX-20150328-025952.txt 18:06:55 though at least part of that has to be since I try not to repeat titles when feasible 18:07:24 is there a polytitleist player group? 18:07:47 ?/polytitleist 18:07:48 No matches. 18:07:57 !lg . won s=title ?:N>1 18:07:57 6 games for rchandra (won): 2x Eviscerator, 2x Portalist, 2x Ninja 18:08:00 The thing I don't like about adding scaling to the mp formula is that it makes high levels of spellcasting less good than early ones, even apart from cost, and I'm not sure there's any compelling reason to keep that true 18:08:02 !lg * won s=name x=${cdist(title)/cdist(gid)} o=${cdist(title)/cdist(gid)},N 18:08:09 28435 games for * (won): 26x demonblade [1], 22x VolteccerJack [1], 17x hyperrchandra [1], 17x platinum [1], 13x rkdn42 [1], 13x Tusk [1], 13x Johan [1], 13x Razawaza [1], 12x Butch [1], 12x Kitty [1], 12x Kolbur [1], 12x Castanova [1], 12x jordiebear88 [1], 12x DChimera [1], 11x Mygna [1], 11x traveller [1], 11x murphyslaw [1], 11x paplaukes [1], 11x RoundRobin [1], 11x Narretz [1], 11x nrook [1]... 18:08:28 what would the consequences of letting maxmp run wild later in the game 18:08:33 + be 18:08:40 wheals: integer division 18:08:47 !lg . won s=title 18:08:47 32 games for gammafunk (won): 2x Imperceptible, 2x Executioner, 2x Warrior, 2x Wrestler, 2x Petrodigitator, Hawkeye, Sharpshooter, Unseen, Impregnable, Portalist, Merfolkian Porcupine, Sensei, Annihilator, Englaciator, Genius of the Arcane, Halfling Blade, Cloud Mage, Sorcerer, Talismancer, Bludgeoner, Ninja, Middleweight Champion, Shatterer, Demonologist, Conqueror, Devastator, Infernalist 18:08:54 maybe I should see it as a warning that Bloax and I have the same perspective about high late-game mp 18:09:10 haha 18:09:10 rchandra: that's the point, that only shows people who have no repeats at all 18:09:12 well if you hate comfortable games 18:09:12 yes 18:09:28 and also think that spellcasters are much stronger than melee or ranged characters 18:09:29 (they are not) 18:09:39 oh I thought you wanted least likely to repeat 18:10:33 yeah not sure how to do that 18:26:54 oh interesting, didn't realize README.txt was used by all those things 18:28:09 -!- Big-guy has quit [] 18:28:55 ??flag_day 18:28:56 flag day[1/1]: The day our push urls move from {gitorious} to {github}. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/F/flag-day.html 18:29:17 is that day just going to be the day the gitorious service is disabled? 18:29:23 anyway, the goal is for https://github.com/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/tree/master/crawl-ref to look nice, which will be more useful once we remove the extra crawl-ref directory so it's just what people see when they go to https://github.com/crawl-ref/crawl-ref 18:29:25 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:34 and so it'd be nice to be able to keep those badges at the top 18:29:53 well +1 for removal of crawl-ref dir 18:30:05 the cd cost! 18:30:06 gammafunk: hopefully earlier than that, so we have some time in case of issues(: 18:30:17 yeah that would make sense 18:30:36 mid-april sometime should probably be fine 18:30:51 or earlier, if we happen to get all of the things ready to go earlier 18:31:05 main thing is probably just going to be coordinating with server admins 18:33:44 -!- Archevanescent has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:42:08 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:44:03 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-372-gcac7fed 18:47:01 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:01 -!- TR_Muscateer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:50:43 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:53:25 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:54:18 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:13 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:45 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:01:40 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:03:10 yea. I bet it's not too hard to get the server updated. I think the repo path is set in one spot. this is why I run the same setup as CSZO and clan (and cxc?) 19:05:19 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:07:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:49 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10:16 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:50 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:13:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:13:21 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:13:28 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:14:39 doy: another request to change the repo name to crawl 19:16:37 i wonder if we could ask github to kick the people squatting on the "crawl" organisation 19:17:10 you can!! 19:17:17 i said you should do that two days ago!!!! 19:17:34 crawl/crawl would be the best name 19:17:41 or dcss/dcss if you prefer 19:17:46 just not crawl-ref, ugh 19:17:51 #aethetics 19:18:24 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:27 seconded; i don't know what the -ref is supposed to mean, and wouldn't look for it under that name 19:20:48 at any rate need to get that done before "flag day" 19:29:55 -!- Frenoss has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:22 crawl-dcss 19:31:32 -!- onrul has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:32 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:38 ^version 19:31:38 trunk: 0.17-a0-368-g6795a14; 0.14: 0.14.2; 0.13: 0.13.2 19:31:55 whoops. need to add 15 and 16 19:32:14 %version 19:32:14 trunk: 0.17-a0-368-g6795a14; 0.16: 0.16.1-11-g651b585; 0.15: 0.15.2; 0.14: 0.14.2; 0.13: 0.13.2; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415 19:33:11 <|amethyst> crawl 19:33:49 -!- miserium has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:35:12 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:50 chequers: are aethetics basically how Air Elementalists decorate? 19:36:35 <|amethyst> Athietics, by L. Ron Dawkins 19:38:34 æθ for short 19:41:05 <|amethyst> ⃠✝ 19:41:40 <|amethyst> I'll take "80s Punk" for $1000, Alex 19:44:03 why is %?? so old? 19:44:40 <|amethyst> because chei's server doesn't have a new enough C++ to build crawl anymore 19:44:58 <|amethyst> and moving it to CSZO didn't work last time I tried, and I haven't gotten around to trying again 19:45:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:18 <|amethyst> (the problem was probably just related to a git 2.0 behaviour change) 19:45:43 ??devteam[5] 19:45:44 devteam[5/27]: sadly that bug is literally impossible to fix by which i mean i tried like once and then gave up 19:45:51 <|amethyst> exactly 19:46:41 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:11 !messages 19:47:11 (1/1) chequers said (16h 34m 15s ago): i found your hungry ghost food shop. screw you (and your dash) 19:47:48 !tell chequers what did you think. does it need more ghosts. 19:47:49 nicolae-: OK, I'll let chequers know. 19:50:00 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:30 Nicolae's Noxious Necromancies 19:53:10 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:53:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:38 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 19:53:50 I suppose now it'd be Nufwgz's Noxious Necromancies 19:54:03 someone, and i won't say that it's gammafunk, took out my chance at fame :( 19:54:21 We are to be humble vault monks, meek servants of Zot 19:54:27 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:52 no! rise above your station! cast down the cruel reign of zot 19:55:01 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:55:04 into the pits of flame with you, vile demiurge 19:55:44 nicolae-: it'd have been funny though if with the D:6 bug there were like a billion "Nicolae" shops and people were like "who did this?" 19:56:06 well, technically, a billion/30 19:56:24 i wonder how many would even notice the owner's name was an actual name though 19:56:35 some would have noticed gammafunk for sure 19:56:45 well i only put the gammafunk in as a bribe 19:57:05 which i had planned to do as soon as someone complained about the vanity name 19:57:21 oh, so insert the name of everyone who complains? 19:57:35 p. much. 19:57:40 i think that's repugnant and demand to be included 19:57:54 you can be included when you get a commit bit, poindexter 19:58:19 <|amethyst> eh, I got several unided potions named after me and no one complained 19:58:35 <|amethyst> they did remove me from the unrand though 19:58:38 rip 19:58:46 maybe a pun somehow... nickel eye 19:58:51 yeah, that's the ticket 19:59:08 the devs will never suspect... wordplay... 19:59:19 <|amethyst> he's gone off the deep egg 19:59:50 An E. Coli 20:00:15 <|amethyst> vault with nikola and his pet air elemental 20:00:42 ha! 20:00:56 nicolae-: oh 20:01:02 I should have you look at something 20:01:05 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:15 is this a vault or am i about to get the goatse 20:01:19 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:01:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:34 er have to compile 20:02:30 it'll take a couple mins, I'll ping you or tell you if you leave 20:03:01 dumb CPUs and their silly need for object code! 20:03:37 get it together, CPUs 20:13:25 nicolae-: http://i.imgur.com/AEwU4vQ.png 20:13:43 in that bottom-right corner, I'd like something relative open, not too closed up 20:14:00 and probably so you can look out to it from those little pods 20:14:14 hmmmmmmm 20:14:15 basically where you see the player standing 20:14:23 there are few relatively open areas on the map 20:14:28 so I'd like that to be one 20:14:39 the pods don'thave to be there, could remove to make it even larger 20:14:46 but the pods make a cool enclosed area 20:14:54 taht will have like some decorative garden/cage thing 20:15:00 the little wall on the lower left-center of the map, is that going to loop around to connect to the right side of the window pods 20:15:15 yeah that's problem too 20:15:22 also how does your inbox have 128 unread messages 20:15:25 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:27 shit would drive me bonkers 20:15:30 like it needs to be there to give nice symmetry 20:15:44 nicolae-: it's 128 offers from top game development companies 20:15:49 they just keep piling up 20:16:04 Wanted: Janitor with C++ experience 20:16:18 Needed: Trash collector fluenty in Python and familiar with Roguelike design 20:16:19 "You can have a job, just give me back my dog" 20:16:20 <|amethyst> They all say "don't !seen us, we'll !tell you" 20:16:47 tbh I tried to mark them all read 20:16:52 but it seems to only work on the first page 20:17:02 yeah, gmail is Great like that 20:17:16 hm. the area outside the Moon Base, is that going to be entirely filled up 20:17:48 my first thought is that you could bring up the wall right between the window pods, the left one looks onto a garden or mechanisms or whatever, and the right can look out onto the cold, forbidding, no_tele_into lunar surface 20:18:08 nicolae-: that's another thing, was going to have some wandering singularity monsters as decorations, with the outside no_rtele_into 20:18:11 basically like cloud mage 20:18:20 but I have another lovely gimmick in mind for visuals 20:18:25 so I could just fill that area 20:18:52 ah, that's kind of interesting 20:18:58 man i have 2466 unread 20:19:06 yeah because otherwise only the landing is where you can look out 20:19:12 but it does remove more area from gameplay 20:19:18 it is a large map though (60x60) 20:19:26 why are you making the moon 20:19:37 i had an idea once of making a temple that was Out In Space so the filled-in edge permawall would be spacey, but there wasn't any existing permawall that worked how i wanted (after retiling), open_sea was see through so you could see out over the ocean but when you touch it the message is still open sea 20:19:38 ontoclasm: Some would say that the earth is *our* moon 20:19:42 mmm 20:19:49 ontoclasm: but that would belittle the name of our moon, which is: "The Moon." 20:19:57 a moon 20:20:05 nicolae-, how is the lunar surface no-tele-into 20:20:11 everyone knows it's portalable 20:20:13 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:14 here's a moon vault (_|_) 20:20:20 dang 20:20:31 nicolaes_butt 20:20:34 obviously portal technology and magical translocations work on entirely different quantum principles 20:21:47 hmm, rod of portals 20:21:57 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:19 tempting to put anothe pod south of those two and in the center, make a little triangle 20:22:25 i was thinking something similar, yeah 20:22:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:45 just would like some kind of weird area, but I'll keep that idea you mention in mind 20:22:58 !tell wheals There is a lot of French spacing in the crawl-ref documents (like in crawl-ref/docs), I don't know how you want to handle that. 20:22:58 reaverb: OK, I'll let wheals know. 20:23:03 my next vault is just going to be a box 20:23:19 *maybe* a box in that box 20:23:59 gammafunk_omg_its_a_box 20:24:05 a box...... in a box? 20:24:20 you've found a whole new paradigm of vault design 20:24:33 ??vaultmaking 20:24:33 vaultmaking[1/3]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps and docs/develop/levels/ in the source 20:24:36 ??vaultmaking[2 20:24:36 hangedman[14/19]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:hangedman 20:24:37 ??vaultmaking[3 20:24:38 vaultmaking[3/3]: I suggested to gamma earlier that I should remove the equivalent of the vaginal canal. It makes the vault look better as well. 20:24:44 you open the box... and a box of beasts crawls out! 20:25:00 03reaverb02 07* 0.17-a0-373-gca69ed3: Make the MP boost for Invocations the same as for Evocations (50% skill) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca69ed30a009 20:25:23 which entry has the quote that's like "the first rule of vault making is to make sure that no part of your vault looks like a swastika or a smiley facE" 20:25:31 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:25:36 or a dong 20:25:56 ?/swastika 20:25:57 Matching entries (2): goodmantis[7]: 0006122: Map in the form of a swastika | vault[3]: [Mu_] the most crucial part of making a large map is ensuring that no section of it either looks like a swastika or a smiley face 20:26:17 yeah i didn't want to be the guy to search sequell for swastika, so thank you 20:26:42 those goddamn nazis. why did their symbol have to be an easy arrangement of lines at right angles with rotational symmetry. 20:27:19 *goes to the big NAZI CRIMES list, adds in 1,406,618,988: Can't make certain convenient shapes in vaults* 20:29:18 -!- Jonatan_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:29 I kinda violated the face rool but I think in a good way with this vault 20:31:34 *rule 20:32:05 not sure i see the face 20:32:39 Hehe. 20:32:46 !vault crypt_curse_skull 20:32:46 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des;hb=HEAD#l110 20:33:00 i was going to mention that one 20:33:18 nicolae-: sort of little space-invader like guys connected to the pods 20:33:25 !vault grunt_crypt_end_deaths_head 20:33:25 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des;hb=HEAD#l1900 20:33:30 yeah it's not really any kind of overt face 20:34:08 Oh dear, crypt_curse_skull and friends appears to place literally all Curse Skulls in the Crypt. They are not in Crypt's entry in mon-pick-data.h 20:34:20 wow 20:34:22 didnt know that 20:34:29 hrm 20:34:33 CHANCE: 3333 does that. 20:34:42 Surprised it wasn't 6666 but oh well >_> 20:34:57 Now how to change a vault chance into a mon-pick-data.h chance.... 20:35:23 reaverb: I don't think you would 20:35:33 gammafunk: ? 20:35:39 you could just treat them like lich 20:35:42 or ancient lich 20:36:00 @??curse_skull 20:36:00 curse skull (11z) | Spd: 15 | HD: 13 | HP: 55 | AC/EV: 35/3 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1631 | Sp: sum.undead [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 20:36:08 So just remove those vaults, place them same as lich? Hmm. 20:36:10 wow didn't realize hp is so low 20:36:15 no, wait 20:36:20 oh 20:36:24 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:39 oh I see 20:36:49 Webtiles server restarted. 20:36:50 right, since that's from when they're stationary 20:37:22 Yes. 20:38:21 (Should probably just add something which exempts stationary monsters from spawning after level gen) 20:40:31 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 20:41:33 hrm, that might already be the case 20:41:48 oh 20:41:57 reaverb: I don't think stationary monsters are any pop data 20:42:00 so there's no need 20:42:19 <|amethyst> there's MONS_FUNGUS in orc 20:42:32 <|amethyst> and MONS_FUNGUS and MONS_PLANT in swamp 20:42:38 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:42:46 yeah firewood monsters 20:42:50 Yes, but it would prevent using vaults to spawn stationary monsters in the future, which is weird. Do oklobs spawn randomly in the Lair? 20:43:31 reaverb: wait, you said that stationary monsters shouldn't spawn after level gen 20:43:53 reaverb: yes 20:44:36 !source mon-pick-data.h:257 20:44:36 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-pick-data.h;hb=HEAD#l257 20:44:44 reaverb: stationary hostile monsters basically only generate through vaults 20:45:10 |amethyst: I made the dgamelaunch-config update. uh, was it safe to publish that right away? 20:45:23 <|amethyst> johnstein: yeah, should be 20:45:34 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:46:00 gammafunk: I'm not sure what we're talking about right now >_> <_<. I don't think stationary monstes should spawn after level gen (like Oklobs do in the Lair right now). Since apparently this curse skull vault hack was a way around that, I wondered if there should be a way to put stationary monsters in pop_data and only having them used when the level is generated. 20:46:14 <|amethyst> spawns use WANDERING_MONSTER which gets turned into RANDOM_MONSTER so can give stationary things 20:46:26 In the 0.14.1 changelog it says the good gods now punish you correctly for 'negative energy clouds' ...wtf was/is a negative energy cloud? 20:46:32 <|amethyst> shadow creatures etc already use RANDOM_MOBILE_MONSTER 20:46:42 <|amethyst> Bcadren: something you can get for rod of clouds 20:46:47 reaverb: no, vaults are all placed during level gen 20:46:51 <|amethyst> s/for/from/ 20:46:55 should I change the remote in my repo to point to GH now? or should I wait? 20:46:55 reaverb: so I don't see what you mean by this being a hack around that 20:46:58 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:47:07 reaverb: this is just a way to place them *during* level gen 20:47:39 because they're stationary, people wanted loot placed with them 20:47:49 so they made a vault just to place them + loot 20:48:25 gammafunk: I meant it's a way around "random monster spawns place monsters after level gen". 20:48:51 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:48:53 <|amethyst> but 20:49:00 but vaults aren't placed after level gen 20:49:00 <|amethyst> if you want to place things during level gen only 20:49:05 -!- mauris_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:05 <|amethyst> vaults are exactly how you do that 20:49:10 <|amethyst> so why introduce another method? 20:50:01 <|amethyst> (though I could see the argument for wanting to keep the data in the same format as the other random monster picking data) 20:50:07 My thought was that vaults are difficult to compare to the numbers in mon-pick-data.h. I have no idea how often Curse skulls spawn relatively- yes. 20:50:28 yeah in any case curse skulls are no longer stationary 20:50:30 so they should indeed move to pop data 20:50:33 Anyway, does anybody have a recent run of the "count the monsters" lua script around? Or would I need to run that myself. 20:50:41 reaverb: it's objstat 20:50:43 ??objstat 20:50:44 objstat[1/4]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a full debug console build of crawl ("make debug") to generate item/monster statistics by level/branch; see crawl -help for details 20:50:50 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:00 I can run it quick for crypt 20:51:01 Oh, well there's also monplace.lua 20:51:01 one sec 20:51:35 well objstat was written for this and probably gives better stats 20:51:41 I'm not sure monplace is maintained 20:51:45 -!- Chunes has quit [] 20:51:51 gammafunk: Sure. 20:52:32 <|amethyst> anyway, if one wants to have things in mon-pick-data that are picked only at level gen time, that should be marked somehow in mon-pick-data I think 20:52:39 <|amethyst> rather than being a property of the monster class 20:52:54 <|amethyst> since we may in fact want to generate oklobs in lair after levelgen 20:52:57 I was wondering how we could add Curse skulls to Crypt spawn list given it's already full, but we can probably just remove some weird popcorn like wraiths. 20:53:08 |amethyst: I could also see putting it in mon-pick-data.h 20:53:14 what do you mean it's full? 20:53:18 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:53:22 <|amethyst> reaverb: that's what I said 20:53:36 I think we can just add them to the pop data 20:53:46 and remove the vault, of course 20:53:59 * Bcadren still kind of thinks chaotic items should have god-hated effects repressed (either reroll or cantrip); rather than the god banning the item. (IE Wand of Random Effects can't Choose Flame, Fire or Fireball if you are of Dith; similar to Scrolls of Brand Weapon and Acquirement skipping Flaming) 20:54:07 gammafunk: I was under the impression that spawn lists weights only mattered relative to other spawn lists weights? 20:54:35 reaverb: yeah, that's true, but you're not giving much weight to these 20:54:35 So X monsters generate a branch, and the spawn lists just determine what type of monsters they are. I have never looked at the code though. 20:54:50 <|amethyst> yes, you are going to be reducing the number of monsters in crypt very slightly 20:54:53 gammafunk: Ah. 20:55:06 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:27 reaverb: it's just a range where the monster can place (can go greater than $ so it can be ood) a dist type to describe how dist changes over level range, and finally a weight 20:55:41 mon-pick-data.h, it's pretty readable 20:55:51 I'll see how many we place currently in crypt 20:55:56 <|amethyst> now, actually using those numbers to figure out what the probabilities will be 20:56:02 <|amethyst> that's what the spreadsheet is for 20:56:11 <|amethyst> ?/spreadsheet 20:56:12 Matching entries (9): dieselrobin[5] | dieselrobin_results[1] | dodging[3] | elliptic[3] | layouts[2] | rebel_tilescum[2] | tasonir[2] | team_peach_tree[2] | test[12] 20:56:17 <|amethyst> hm 20:56:23 <|amethyst> ?/mon-pick 20:56:23 No matches. 20:56:27 yeah hangedman's spreadsheet can tell you what prob 20:56:30 <|amethyst> wherever it is 20:56:33 ?/hangedman 20:56:33 Matching terms (1): hangedman; entries (32): bad_excuses[13] | cerebov_strategy[2] | crawl_players[1] | elliott_patches[9] | elliptic[2] | gauntlet[1] | great_near_misses[8] | hangedman[3] | hangedman[7] | hangedman[8] | hangedman[10] | hangedman[14] | hangedman[17] | hangedman[18] | hubris[2] | itsmu[7] | lying[2] | mnolegsprint[2] | pcrawl[2] | protip[13] | QUAD_DAMAGE[6] | racism[5] | river_let... 20:56:40 ?/google 20:56:41 Matching entries (26): android[1] | announcement[1] | bad_ideas[2] | brogue[1] | brogue[2] | clustering_illusion[1] | dieselrobin[5] | dieselrobin_results[1] | dodging[3] | elliptic[3] | gflex[5] | kaduria[3] | layouts[2] | learndb[5] | linley_henzell[3] | objstat[2] | ortoslon[1] | rebel_tilescum[2] | regex[2] | rgrm[1] | team_peach_tree[2] | ttyrec[1] | turnerjer[6] | vault_standards[1] | xom[6]... 20:56:44 Still probably decent to remove wraiths from the crypt anyway? I'm pretty sure a D:10 monsters isn't going to be a threat after you've entered the Crypt. 20:56:48 <|amethyst> ??elliptic[3] 20:56:48 elliptic[3/3]: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsDUl9FTpJmLdHNLU05rU1hvMmFlNnRHQTVQdG9rU0E 20:57:01 <|amethyst> no, that's something else :) 20:57:06 heh 20:57:17 ??hangedman[/googl] 20:57:17 I don't have a page labeled hangedman[/googl] in my learndb. 20:57:20 <|amethyst> objstat is the more empirical way to do it 20:57:31 <|amethyst> but that will also include vault-placed monsters etc 20:57:44 yeah my approach was going to look at the numberplaced and find a similar monster 20:57:51 that is in mon-pick 20:57:53 and use that weight 20:57:58 the sheet is nice to use though 20:58:07 we should find it and save it somewhere 20:59:18 will have objstat in a sec 20:59:48 <|amethyst> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdHc2LWswckVoZUhnT3Y2Qzk3OFMzaVE 20:59:50 gammafunk: Can you handle adding Curse skulls to the crypt properly? Need to go now. 20:59:57 <|amethyst> the data isn't up to date 20:59:59 reaverb: sure I'll try to do that 21:00:22 thanks. 21:00:22 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:30 <|amethyst> but you should be able to finagle the current tables into the first five columns and copy-paste the formulas 21:01:10 <|amethyst> !learn add mon-pick-data Probability-calculation spreadsheet (data maybe not up to date) at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdHc2LWswckVoZUhnT3Y2Qzk3OFMzaVE 21:01:11 mon-pick-data[1/1]: Probability-calculation spreadsheet (data maybe not up to date) at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXhStQL2U2fdHc2LWswckVoZUhnT3Y2Qzk3OFMzaVE 21:01:55 <|amethyst> hm 21:02:36 <|amethyst> actually, that's only D and depths, but again you should be able to plug in any pop list and get reasonable results as long as you're within the appropriate depth range 21:03:19 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:39 -!- Mottikins_ is now known as FaMott 21:04:48 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AGB0jhbQGC86oAabZwCzWYLrWH0-TDXOSrsWNyaPp7g/edit?usp=sharing 21:06:44 <|amethyst> zombie nummin = 1 21:06:50 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:56 looks like soul eaters 21:06:58 are pretty close 21:07:01 <|amethyst> it generated at least one crypt with a single solitary zombie 21:07:03 ??cpo 21:07:03 cpo[1/1]: DCSS server in Sydney. Webtiles: https://crawl.project357.org/ SSH: crawl@crawl.project357.org (pw joshua or key available via webtiles). Operated by chequers. 21:07:45 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the average is close 21:07:49 yeah 21:07:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: but the max is way off 21:07:56 heh 21:08:07 there's probably not a monster with a dist like skulls :) 21:08:15 <|amethyst> I wonder why it's max 2 21:08:29 <|amethyst> you'd expect to have > 2 at least sometimes with those vaults being allow_dup 21:08:37 <|amethyst> and having the huge chance: 21:08:56 <|amethyst> hm 21:09:12 blerg, I cannot get this monster to use this new spell. It doesn't seem to even want to try to cast it. 21:09:16 <|amethyst> eidolon has more average but a small max 21:09:27 |amethyst: what is luniq again? 21:09:31 <|amethyst> Lasty: does the spell have a tracer? 21:09:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk: once per level 21:09:47 where are those defined? zap-data? 21:09:57 |amethyst: then isn't that why? 21:10:11 if you're looking at e.g. crypt:1 21:10:26 <|amethyst> ohh 21:10:30 yeah sorry if that' unclear 21:10:32 <|amethyst> I thought I was looking at crypt:all 21:10:37 no that's at the end 21:10:38 <|amethyst> but it says right up there in B7, sorry 21:10:41 one set for each level 21:11:02 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:09 but yeah all the same max 9 is not max 2 21:11:55 <|amethyst> curse skull has 1.84 avg in all crypt, max 5. Some of those probably come from other vaults? 21:12:12 yeah I'm sure there are a few that place them 21:12:19 <|amethyst> that seems close to shadow wraith 21:12:27 and ofc crypt:3 is totally different from crypt:1 and crypt:2 21:12:32 since that's often encompass 21:13:49 yeah curse skull is basically flat on crypt:1 and crypt:2 21:13:56 but matches s. wraith very well on crypt:2 21:14:26 ah 21:14:33 %git 21:14:33 07reaverb02 * 0.17-a0-373-gca69ed3: Make the MP boost for Invocations the same as for Evocations (50% skill) 10(57 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca69ed30a009 21:14:38 s. wraiths aren't in the crypt:1 pop 21:14:51 looks like the GH repo is nearly real-time? 21:15:39 <|amethyst> johnstein: yeah, doy has a mirroring script triggered by a gitorious webhook 21:15:50 <|amethyst> you can probably pull from github now 21:16:14 <|amethyst> occasionally there might be a forced update because someone pushed to the wrong repo 21:16:27 <|amethyst> !rebase doy 21:16:27 |amethyst rebases doy. Doy is banished to the reflog! 21:16:39 I think the same weight as reventant would be ok 21:16:45 maybe just 75 instead of 85 though 21:16:53 with same dist otherwise 21:17:26 so we'll go with that unless some mega math nerd jumps out from behind their calculator and objects 21:18:05 <|amethyst> sounds good, ship it 21:18:12 * gammafunk sails away! 21:18:49 <|amethyst> Murray/Boris 21:19:03 <|amethyst> Or "Murris" as I like to call them 21:19:17 Boray 21:19:39 I guess rip loot though 21:19:45 not much we can do about that 21:20:35 why are the mon-pick-data weights out of 1000 anyway 21:22:54 <|amethyst> they're not really 21:23:21 <|amethyst> I guess to make some proportions easier, but I'd go with 600 then 21:23:49 how do the weights work, exactly? 21:24:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:01 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:25:20 <|amethyst> based on the min, max, freq, and distribution you can compute a freq for each monster for each level (some will be 0 because they're out of range, ignore those) 21:25:29 <|amethyst> then you do a random_choose_weighted of those 21:25:48 <|amethyst> so the number is out of the sum of all those numbers when scaled to that level 21:25:58 <|amethyst> distributions are described in random_pick.h 21:26:05 <|amethyst> !source distrib_type 21:26:05 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/random-pick.h;hb=HEAD#l11 21:26:10 why does ccache feel like it never helps any more... 21:26:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk: maybe you're thrashing it? 21:26:30 in what sense? 21:26:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ISTR default cache size is kind of small for modern disks 21:26:50 <|amethyst> well, I guess the other thing is people editing headers 21:27:03 <|amethyst> that ruins ccache :) 21:27:04 yeah maybe mon pick data 21:27:08 <|amethyst> hm 21:27:13 <|amethyst> that one shouldn't be included much 21:27:23 that's what I assumed as well 21:27:30 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:27:33 <|amethyst> yeah, that one should only trigger mon-pick.cc 21:27:36 %git :/alphashops 21:27:36 07gammafunk02 * 0.17-a0-362-g2bef489: Some tweaks to alphashops 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2bef4898fd80 21:28:01 do you build full debug and disable debug messages? 21:28:20 *disable debug messages in wiz mode 21:28:44 <|amethyst> no, I usually do an ordinary build 21:28:48 <|amethyst> with no optimisation 21:28:48 it's a pain to have them when doing things, but it's also a pain to compile full debug randomly when I need objstat/mapstat 21:28:58 maybe turning off optimisation would help 21:29:47 -!- eb has quit [] 21:30:07 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:32 <|amethyst> make -j5 DEBUG=y USE_PCRE=y WEBTILES=y EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L="-Og" 21:30:37 <|amethyst> is my usual build 21:30:49 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:58 <|amethyst> my biggest annoyance is having to recompress pngs after switching branches 21:31:07 <|amethyst> someone should make ccache support advpng :P 21:32:58 oh 21:33:05 curse skulls still make exclusions? 21:34:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I bet you have some old rc 21:36:20 yeah must be then 21:36:50 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-374-g3c19757: Move curse skulls to pop_crypt now that they're not stationary 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3c197575c26d 21:36:53 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:05 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 21:37:28 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:35 should/does alphashops take normal item rarity into account, or perhaps be super-rare themselves? 21:37:55 they are rarer now that they aren't guaranteed on d:6 21:38:42 that's probably colouring my view a bit, yeah 21:39:04 at least i got plenty of feedback 21:40:23 any chance of making their randarts start with the right letter? 21:41:11 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:20 p always needs plog imo 21:41:21 no, there's no way to specify a randart's name with vault syntax so it'd require a bunch of new code and i don't want to add "no_uniq" to every jewellery item in the lists 21:41:36 sad :( 21:41:59 yeah it's annoying but the fixes require more effort 21:44:20 now, if some dev wanted to perhaps add a bit of code to fix this... 21:45:01 -!- Zappman321 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:40 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:51:16 gammafunk: btw, mouse support is indeed still broken on OSX 21:51:33 I’ve been meaning to let you know since re-compiling 21:51:38 And then this reddit thread reminded me 21:51:39 http://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/30zunp/mac_offline_client_0161_turns_off_and_on_mouse/ 21:52:12 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:53:15 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:42 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:54:50 i'm reading that subreddit now and http://i.imgur.com/uVJxUy6.png ANOTHER SATISFIED CUSTOMER 21:55:00 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:57:57 rchandra: fr colorshops 21:58:03 maybe more subtle 21:58:44 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:00 ontoclasm: using the player rc until that abuse is caught, like pan walls? 22:01:15 haha 22:01:19 yes, defnitely 22:01:39 i'll make all items blue except /hw 22:01:46 |amethyst where should I share the 3D demo? /r/roguelikes, the tavern? 22:01:57 it'll be a bit of an optimisation/risk game. put all the good things on one letter for the best shop, or spread them around for more chance at one good thing 22:02:14 <|amethyst> Bcadren: /r/roguelikedev seems like the most apt place 22:02:20 s/letter/colour/ though you could also do glyph shops 22:02:25 rchandra: one of the bugs i personally reported was a crash-on-demand from LRDing things with ETC colors 22:02:54 and you could do it via rc so you didn't even need a naturally ETC monster 22:04:07 |amethyst alright. I'll probably post multiple places (including CYC because of the loose relation to Crawl) just need to get monster pathing then I can post. Guess to use the same naming scheme 0.0.0 (mechanics test pre-alpha); probably prop up a survey with it for thoughts on the viability of the mechanic combo. 22:05:31 -!- tingol4 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:06:53 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:55 help, I'm being persecuted by goons 22:06:55 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:07:42 Good. 22:08:00 rude...!!! 22:08:32 i'm the rudest 22:08:47 *puts on some shades and a leather jacket and harasses some squares at the malt shop* 22:09:11 they're being mean to me because crawl doesn't have damage numbers 22:09:13 it's not fair... 22:09:33 well. maybe it should. 22:09:49 maybe your face should!!! 22:10:01 you're... absolutely right 22:10:02 it should 22:10:43 how can i help 22:11:29 um 22:12:02 what bad thing did you even do?! 22:12:08 * bh steals nicolae-'s poodle skirt 22:12:55 whoa 22:13:18 I am, arguably, a crawl dev 22:13:18 and thus clearly responsible 22:13:30 this is why you need a dictator-in-chief 22:13:40 they can take the blame for everything dev-related 22:13:43 oh there are 300 posts since I last read the thread 22:14:15 what thread 22:14:27 it's not the games thread 22:14:30 oh 22:14:56 it is, of all things, the imp zone brazilian tabletop roleplaying games thread 22:15:10 there is no sanctuary for my sins... 22:15:15 what the christ 22:15:15 number hater 22:16:00 can we start pushing crap to trunk? 22:16:09 we've been doing that, yes 22:16:22 ok. I want to fix/break rot 22:16:25 some would say you've been doing it for years 22:16:26 cool 22:16:30 crawl 0.17: crap edition 22:16:32 nicolae-: PLEASE be polite. 22:16:38 in this channel, of all channels........ 22:17:16 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:17:24 heck no, daddy-o *pushes you in a locker and makes loud noises at the drive in* 22:17:24 pf: should I rebase my branch onto master and push or merge? 22:17:57 <|amethyst> I'd rebase onto master and push to master 22:18:08 <|amethyst> (and leave the branch alone or delete it) 22:18:09 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:19:12 checkout branch -> rebase master -> ??? -> profit? 22:19:30 this is what I get for using perforce 22:19:37 <|amethyst> ??? is push origin branch:master 22:19:38 I don't have a page labeled ?_is_push_origin_branch:master in my learndb. 22:19:39 pull, checkout branch, rebase master, checkout master, rebase branch, push 22:20:04 <|amethyst> or that 22:20:16 that's my strategy 22:20:17 k 22:20:49 i might regret this question, but what are you implementing 22:21:16 what's the difference between ckiller and ikiller? 22:21:29 Bcadren: have you read ??listgame? 22:22:11 No. I didn't know there was any info in the learnDB about queries other than ??milestone 22:22:14 <|amethyst> !lg * s=ikiller 22:22:22 4166885 games for *: 821114x, 217662x a hobgoblin, 213542x a kobold, 210511x a gnoll, 168218x an orc priest, 140157x an orc wizard, 126401x an adder, 114272x an ogre, 108514x Sigmund, 106325x a jackal, 102422x an orc, 91234x a goblin, 81042x an orc warrior, 73577x a giant gecko, 69194x a centaur, 67473x a worm, 46104x a snake, 44263x Grinder, 36650x Terence, 34364x Crazy Yiuf, 32551x Ijyb, 31380x ... 22:22:25 <|amethyst> !lg * s=cikiller 22:22:31 4166890 games for *: 821114x, 217662x a hobgoblin, 213542x a kobold, 210512x a gnoll, 168226x an orc priest, 140160x an orc wizard, 126401x an adder, 122982x a player ghost, 114272x an ogre, 108753x Sigmund, 106325x a jackal, 102422x an orc, 91234x a goblin, 81064x an orc warrior, 73577x a giant gecko, 69194x a centaur, 67473x a worm, 46104x a snake, 44431x Grinder, 36712x Terence, 34466x Crazy Yi... 22:22:34 if you get killed by a six-headed hydra summoned by Duvessa, ckiller=hydra, ikiller=Duvessa 22:22:35 <|amethyst> won't see anything from that first page 22:22:50 Bcadren: ??listgame is very thorough, and covers all this stuff 22:22:53 while killer=six-headed hydra 22:23:02 <|amethyst> cikiller also exists 22:23:18 fr: continuous integration killers 22:23:41 <|amethyst> e.g. if you're killed by a ice fiend summoned by Xqzl the pan lord, ikiller=Xqzl, cikiller=pandemonium_lord 22:24:30 when I think about a math term abbreviated CI it is not continuous integration 22:24:49 ??spore [3 22:24:49 giant spore[3/3]: sorear the Marksminotaur (L13 MiGl), worshipper of Yredelemnul, killed by an exploding giant spore (created by an active ballistomycete (created by a giant spore (created by an active ballistomycete (created by a giant spore)))) on D:11 on 2009-11-23, with 37349 points after 19708 turns and 2:06:31. 22:25:06 aaand continuous integration is not a math term 22:25:40 /part 22:26:36 I guess the farthest chain you could get normally is {foo} Summons Lesser Demons and get Ynoximnul and Ynoximnul summons Ufetubus. 22:27:06 03bh02 07* 0.17-a0-375-gbf62976: HW and curing heal rot first rather than last 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 35+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf62976c3002 22:27:06 03bh02 07* 0.17-a0-376-g64293cc: Simply unrot_hp 10(3 weeks ago, 3 files, 13+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=64293ccac19f 22:27:06 03bh02 07* 0.17-a0-377-gdd46233: Increase rotting damage from melee. 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd4623349d6d 22:27:07 New branch created: stream-drakes (1 commit) 22:27:07 03doy02 07[stream-drakes] * 0.17-a0-375-g5cee1d4: stream drakes 10(13 minutes ago, 8 files, 63+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5cee1d4518ff 22:27:09 wasn't there one somewhere that was just four or five giant spore -> ballistomycete -> giant spore... 22:27:47 "Simply" ugh 22:27:47 <|amethyst> Bcadren: you forget shadow creatures 22:27:49 <|amethyst> !lg * max=length(kpath) x=kpath 22:27:52 4166903. [kpath=summoned by a deep elf sorcerer:summoned by a Blue Death:summoned by a deep elf demonologist:summoned by a Blue Death:summoned by a deep elf demonologist] Churchmouse the Blademaster (L27 HaWn of Okawaru), blasted by a smoke demon (divine providence) (summoned by a deep elf sorcerer (summoned by a Blue Death (summoned by a deep elf demonologist (summoned by a Blue Death (summoned b... 22:27:57 new branch, steam drakes? 22:27:59 <|amethyst> !lg * current max=length(kpath) x=kpath 22:28:02 134879. [kpath=summoned by a shadow demon:summoned by a deep elf demonologist:led by an ironheart preserver] Retrospecter the Imperceptible (L25 FoAs of Ru), blasted by a frost giant (bolt of cold) (summoned by a shadow demon (summoned by a deep elf demonologist (led by an ironheart preserver))) on Vaults:5 (vaults_vault) on 2015-03-17 20:22:12, with 481538 points after 83342 turns and 10:50:46. 22:28:07 stream drakes! 22:28:12 doy: hat's going to be very easily confused with st- 22:28:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:18 yes 22:28:24 lake drakes 22:28:31 hydrakes 22:28:33 |amethyst a boggart casts shadow creatures, which creates a boggart, with creates a boggart... 22:28:42 i was in fact inspired by someone typoing steam dragon last night 22:29:04 |amethyst: did that come through to you, that pm? 22:29:07 I got an away message 22:29:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes 22:29:55 whatever happened to Dwarven Halls? 22:30:06 they dug too greedily, and too deep 22:30:12 Bcadren: it turns out dwarves are bad enemies 22:30:24 and also like 22:30:24 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:30:26 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:29 the dullest fantasy thing ever invented 22:30:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:58 i mean it's almost wrong to call them fantasy since they are literally just Short People 22:31:54 um they have beards 22:32:30 and they drink alcohol 22:32:52 and wear helmets 22:33:31 and love gold 22:33:43 (well, not really, they just say that to get gold into bed) 22:35:12 do stream drakes wake up the entire level because it uses a water attack 22:35:20 none of which are traits possessed by humans obv. 22:35:22 i don't know! 22:35:25 is that a thing? 22:35:28 yes 22:37:19 Pizza in wrong alphashop 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9601 by Glenstorm 22:37:34 haha 22:37:55 ugh, christ 22:38:29 maybe i should just have sorted everything with "of" based on what's after the of, instead of just the ones that were generic item classes 22:38:56 that damn vault 22:39:06 this must be how dr. frankenstein felt 22:39:06 looks like primal wave just explicitly has a ridiculous noise value 22:39:16 although i don't know how noise values are scaled 22:39:17 nicolae-: well if you want to tweak that and make patch... 22:39:39 i'll think about it 22:39:43 or I guess just give me the des, yeah 22:39:51 if it were you, how would you file away something like "lantern of shadows", L or S? 22:39:53 you don't know how to use git? 22:40:03 nicolae-: clearly both 22:40:04 i need to re-set up git on this machine 22:40:04 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:06 yeah, seems like "L" to me 22:40:17 PleasingFungus: i had actually thought about doing that 22:40:18 I mean you could put in both, yeah 22:40:26 hm. 22:40:36 ??noise 22:40:36 scroll of noise[1/1]: Makes a lot of noise (25). There is generally little use for these, but they are louder than a shout, and they can break {mesmerise} status. 22:40:58 i'm kind of inclined to just be like "it's mostly arbitrary, get used to it" 22:41:01 -!- namelastname112 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:41:39 wait... noise can break mesmerise?? 22:42:12 ??lightning bolt 22:42:12 lightning bolt[1/2]: Level 5 conjurations/air spell. Extremely loud -- only a little quieter than Shatter -- but follows the same {bolt bouncing} rules as Shock. 22:42:15 ??lightning bolt[2 22:42:15 lightning bolt[2/2]: You hear a shout! You hear an angry hiss. You hear a shout! You hear a shout!_You hear a shout! x2 22:42:17 ah 22:42:26 anyway, that can too, iirc 22:42:54 <|amethyst> is that mentioned anywhere in game? 22:43:04 should ?noise mark you or is that too abusable? 22:43:38 why would it do that, bh? it's just noisy 22:43:40 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:07 alarm traps mark you 22:45:48 then i would just wait until finishing a d level before reading scrolls 22:45:56 remember old immolation? 22:46:13 should the Sentinel's Mark spell make noise? 22:46:26 alternate question: should noise == mark? 22:46:59 PleasingFungus: my understanding of noise is very limited 22:47:13 hmmm 22:47:18 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:47:21 i don't think anybody really understands noise 22:47:33 any reason i shouldn't just merge stream drakes? are they interesting enough? 22:47:33 it's like a wave... and also a particle 22:47:46 are they just primal wave drakes 22:47:59 I don't think you need to understand the exact details of noise behavior to answer my question. 22:50:12 Noise acts like actual noise it's movement is reduced by walls, it echoes. the system is oddly complex for it's purpose. 22:50:53 Bcadren: that *sounds* about right. We could probably nuke a lot of it without much loss 22:50:55 anyway, i'm going to go to bed, i will think about the alphabetization of foodstuffs tomorrow 22:50:59 it's not any more oddly complex than anything else in crawl 22:51:02 heh. i see what you did there, bh 22:51:13 And no; I don't think noise should equal mark. Maybe the scroll of noise should mark you, marking yourself on purpose to draw monsters to you is interesting strategy; but not all noise. It'd be too much of a nerf to FE and AE (since FBall and Lightning Strike are noisy as hell). 22:51:45 Bcadren: in my last win, I stomped on an alarm trap in Zot:5 and then hid in a murderhole 22:52:20 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 22:52:25 Bcadren: they shouldn't necessarily be the same thing, but maybe they should be on the same spectrum 22:52:58 bh: I have a question. 22:53:12 PleasingFungus: I've been waiting all my life 22:53:25 Why are you seriously discussing crawl design with bcadren, a mentally ill person? 22:54:26 He should be banned from the channel for his own good, not encouraged further. 22:54:48 Noise (practically) wakes monsters up in a certain radius (based on the noise amount); is (mostly) stopped by doors and makes monsters that woke up go to the source (or were already awake and noticed the noise). Mark makes literally everything on the floor come to you, regardless of where you are (still marked after Blinking, Teleport, etc.) They are related; but they aren't...similar enough to be combined. 22:55:00 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:56:16 I can't link to the post directly because tavern's UI mystifies me, but twelwe's second post in https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15641 <- this thread is relevant here. 23:00:24 -!- Zugr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:02:18 !messaages 23:02:18 chequers: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:02:23 !messages 23:02:23 (1/1) nicolae- said (3h 14m 35s ago): what did you think. does it need more ghosts. 23:02:38 !tell nicolae- at least three ghosts IMO 23:02:39 chequers: OK, I'll let nicolae- know. 23:02:41 <|amethyst> &versions cpo 23:03:35 CAO: none, CBRO: none, CDO: none, CLAN: none, CPO: 0.17-a0-377-gdd46233, CSZO: none, CWZ: none, CXC: none, LLD: none 23:03:35 But adding mark to Scroll of Noise could be interesting; just not all noise. 23:03:35 <|amethyst> oh, good 23:04:10 PleasingFungus: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15641#p213646 23:04:19 |amethyst: ? 23:04:28 Thank you. Forums are black magic and I do not trust them. 23:04:52 <|amethyst> chequers: I was worried the README.txt -> README.md change might have broken your script too 23:07:18 heh 23:07:31 PleasingFungus: i had to dig through the html -- the tavern phpbb is ancient 23:07:44 03doy02 07* 0.17-a0-378-gdbeb0d2: make resting always last until interrupted or done healing 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dbeb0d202e16 23:07:47 |amethyst: are you going to request the dcss name from github? you should, btw 23:07:57 doy for president 23:08:01 hail doy! doy of doys! 23:08:01 gammafunk: merge tla 23:08:02 <|amethyst> I'm not going to 23:08:11 huh 23:08:13 <|amethyst> but perhaps someone should 23:08:18 I volunteer 23:08:27 that is... an interesting change 23:08:30 well, I'm glad I already did Tomb with dbeb0d2 coming in. 23:08:32 chequers: ok, I will tomorrow though because you caught me late 23:08:40 I am not sure it is the right one 23:08:43 woah 23:08:48 PleasingFungus: i thought we were all in agreement about that after yesterday's conversation 23:08:54 what isn't good about it? 23:09:01 I completely missed that conversation. 23:09:06 doy: maybe a maximum though. what if you press 5 as a bloodless vampire in a 1 box room? 23:09:16 Let me catch up before potentially repeating arguments. 23:09:17 when stairdancing if there are summoners on the other side, you want to wait some 23:09:18 chequers: it already takes that into account 23:09:20 doy: when it says you can't wait while fully healed 23:09:24 what does that mean 23:09:26 you can't use . 23:09:31 gammafunk: you can't use 5 23:09:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:09:35 ah ok 23:09:40 that's alright then 23:10:02 PleasingFungus: be warned, it was a conversation involving "bloax and regen" 23:10:08 oh my god 23:10:15 |amethyst: i need you to make me part of the crawl team if you want me to perform the name squatting request 23:10:17 whatever, fine, I'm not going to read that 23:10:18 sorry, just had to prepare you 23:10:36 |amethyst: but the request system is a one line sentence in this form : https://github.com/contact 23:10:38 whatever, I'll complain if it becomes annoying in play 23:10:38 <|amethyst> chequers: err, yeah, someone on the devteam should do that 23:10:42 or someone else will 23:10:47 %git 9314259ae 23:10:47 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-3880-g9314259: Trim artefact names in console-controlled webtiles builds. 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 26+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9314259aed21 23:10:56 <|amethyst> chequers: yeah, I've seen the squatting policy 23:11:16 Subject: DCSS domain squatting. Message: Hi, I'm representing the Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup project (https://crawl.develz.org/ ). We'd like to use the dcss team name but it's being squatted. Could you please release it for us? 23:11:27 |amethyst: that's a contact form and you can copy & paste what I just wrote into it :) 23:11:35 <|amethyst> I wouldn't phrase it that way 23:11:40 <|amethyst> since we don't know it's being squatted 23:11:52 -!- rophy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:54 <|amethyst> private repos 23:11:54 you don't, but that's the magic word from the policy doc 23:12:19 "but it appears to be squatted" 23:12:28 god damn technically correct programmers 23:12:31 <|amethyst> heh 23:12:33 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:34 The build passed. (stream-drakes - 5cee1d4 #2149 : Jesse Luehrs): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/56667511 23:12:34 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 23:12:35 <|amethyst> that sounds better :) 23:12:51 PleasingFungus: you have concerns about 5 until healed? 23:13:09 haven't looked at the patch. is it an option? 23:13:26 My speedrun-lite playstyle sometimes likes to rest to partially healed and then keep exploring; that would be much more annoying with this patch. 23:13:27 ah, so if you want to limit waiting to just 100 turns or something, you'd have to use the repeat command to do . 100 times? 23:13:41 ah 23:13:59 or maybe you'd never want to do that. I don't always pay close attention to how many turns when by when I heal 23:14:02 hrm. IMO this behavior should be on an rc flag 23:14:10 Yeah, it definitely feels like an rc option. 23:14:17 bh: make PleasingFungus edit his rc?!?! 23:14:21 '100.' wouldn't notice interruptions, which is dangerous 23:14:30 what's next, he'll have to use console?! 23:14:36 <|amethyst> hm 23:14:41 <|amethyst> if it is to be an option 23:14:46 <|amethyst> I would make the duration the option 23:14:56 yeah, i could see that 23:15:03 default would be rest until heal? 23:15:08 where do we do command line flag handling? 23:15:22 It looks like the devs in that conversation were: doy, gammafunk, |amethyst. 23:15:23 100. does notice interruptions, as far as i can tell? 23:15:35 <|amethyst> with 0 meaning '9999999' and anything else disabling the "return if you're already fully healed" 23:15:48 <|amethyst> 100. doesn't notice hitting full though 23:15:52 bh: initfile.cc 23:15:59 <|amethyst> though I think you can change that 23:16:09 <|amethyst> with undocumented options 23:16:14 bh: but is that question related to the rest duration somehow? 23:16:22 sort of 23:16:25 since that seems like it'd not involve a command line option 23:16:27 |amethyst: did you submit it? 23:16:27 yeah, i guess making this an option would be fine 23:16:38 as long as it defaults to "rest until healed" 23:16:47 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-379-gcd72016: Add a 'base' param to max_stat() 10(18 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cd720162515e 23:16:47 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-380-g528db62: Don't vary acquirement results by ability state 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=528db62f142d 23:16:49 hmmm 23:16:58 gammafunk: I was thinking of throwing out all our command line option code 23:17:06 or maybe have the option be "how much hp do you want to rest until" or something? 23:17:16 <|amethyst> chequers: no, I think there should be discussion about that first 23:17:21 doy: that sounds nice, if it's not too hard to implement. 23:17:21 <|amethyst> e.g. do we want 'crawl' or 'dcss' 23:17:27 <|amethyst> on the mailing list 23:17:27 would we then use unix domain sockets to communicate with crawl, bh? 23:17:42 gammafunk: no, we could use a library 23:17:45 (i personally don't mind just sticking with crawl-ref) 23:17:56 <|amethyst> throwing it out completely? 23:17:58 |amethyst: crawl is more recognizable, imo 23:18:01 <|amethyst> or replacing it with gitopts? 23:18:01 well that's probably not unreasaonble, but it's not a trivial amount of work 23:18:05 <|amethyst> s/gitopts/getopts/ 23:18:09 |amethyst: what's the flag date you want to migrate by? 31 may? 23:18:25 <|amethyst> probably well before then 23:18:26 |amethyst: I like gflags, but I'm biased 23:18:38 <|amethyst> next couple of weeks maybe? 23:18:53 i'll post to the ml 23:18:58 <|amethyst> cool, thanks 23:19:03 nobody here understands -- names and aesthetics are soooo important 23:19:13 @??fire drake 23:19:13 fire drake (04k) | Spd: 12 | HD: 6 | HP: 23-42 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 8 | fly | Res: 06magic(20), 05fire | XP: 337 | Sp: fire breath (3d12) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 23:19:19 post that on your tumblr chequers 23:19:26 hrm. 23:19:31 gammafunk: be nice <3 23:19:36 doy: should stream drakes be included in call drake? 23:19:39 it was a joke! 23:19:54 @??draconian caller 23:19:54 red draconian caller (07q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 76-100 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1377 | Sp: sum.drakes | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:19:54 PleasingFungus: i don't know! 23:19:56 heh 23:20:00 same 23:20:03 my tumblr is for michael jackson appreciation ONLY 23:20:15 there is NO ROOM for git 23:20:15 all the other drakes are, but all the other drakes are a bit stronger 23:20:21 <|amethyst> bh: as long as old command lines continue to work, though I imagine you want to replace -foo with --foo 23:20:34 @??revenant name:Thriller n_rpl 23:20:34 Thriller (10L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 71-93 | AC/EV: 8/12 | Dam: 26 | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1927 | Sp: ghostly fireball (3d23) [06!sil], ghostly flames [06!sil], dispel undead (3d27) [06!sil], blink away [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:20:35 arguably excepting komodo dragons, by caller depth 23:20:55 |amethyst: doesn't much matter to me. I'd like to see crawlcode trend toward simplicity 23:21:06 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:21:07 also, jokes aside, they probably should not be called stream drakes 23:21:13 if they're going to exist 23:21:25 i like the name(: 23:21:39 are we trying to confuse our players 23:21:46 spoilsport 23:21:54 sry 23:22:02 hm 23:22:03 don; 23:22:10 !lg * kmap~~pf_ 23:22:10 111. NotMyLeg the Destroyer (L12 DEFE of Vehumet), mangled by an eight-headed hydra (kmap: pf_torpor_hydra) on Lair:4 on 2015-03-30 14:46:51, with 24732 points after 15661 turns and 1:24:06. 23:22:12 don't cross the stream drakes, they'll get mad 23:22:14 oh, nice 23:22:25 !lg * kmap~~pf_ s=kmap current trunk 23:22:25 15 games for * (kmap~~pf_ current trunk): 13x pf_orc_diabolical, 2x pf_torpor_hydra 23:22:29 hm 23:22:46 !lg * cv=0.16 cikiller=the_serpent_of_hell s=place 23:22:46 24 games for * (cv=0.16 cikiller=the_serpent_of_hell): 11x Dis:7, 10x Geh:7, 2x Coc:7, Tar:7 23:22:50 PleasingFungus: I got another good water_palace kill that involved an opc throw (more) into the center vault 23:22:51 /: 23:22:57 gammafunk: nice 23:22:59 was a Be even 23:23:03 !send doy sample sizes 23:23:04 Sending sample sizes to doy. 23:23:14 PleasingFungus: yeah, still though 23:23:15 eight heads 23:23:19 eight fast heads 23:23:20 imo just let them chill 23:23:31 !lg * kmap~~pf_ x=status 23:23:31 111. [status=delayed fireball] NotMyLeg the Destroyer (L12 DEFE of Vehumet), mangled by an eight-headed hydra (kmap: pf_torpor_hydra) on Lair:4 on 2015-03-30 14:46:51, with 24732 points after 15661 turns and 1:24:06. 23:23:35 heh 23:23:39 at this point all of them can kill people 23:23:45 nice delayed fball 23:23:45 true enough 23:23:46 and probably none of them are killing everyone 23:23:49 "just gonna save it!" 23:23:55 that's good enough for crawl design 23:23:59 heh 23:24:00 gammafunk: elliot was complaining to me about delayed fireball 23:24:04 ??faerie dragon 23:24:04 faerie dragon[1/1]: They don't exist! 23:24:06 wow...elliot? 23:24:07 "why does this still exist?" 23:24:12 all things old are new again 23:24:14 !killratio the_serpent_of_hell * cv=0.16 23:24:14 where are you talking with elliot 23:24:15 some as old as spring... 23:24:18 the_serpent_of_hell wins 4.968% of battles against * (cv=0.16). 23:24:23 I don't see how that's any of your business. 23:24:27 dang 23:24:37 PleasingFungus: one of my earliest ##crawl-dev experiences is basically 23:24:40 elliot calling me dumb 23:24:48 I mean not in so many words but 23:24:52 heh 23:25:00 the sample size for SoH kills is also affected by the traditional order of hell completion, and I think Dis/Geh are the most commonly entered first 23:25:07 gammafunk: who's elliot? 23:25:12 ??elliot 23:25:13 elliot ~ elliott[1/8]: disregard the elliott 23:25:16 I think tar is the traditional first/easiest hell.... 23:25:18 oh elliott 23:25:20 sorry 23:25:25 blame me for that one, sorry 23:26:00 I bet there are some good reads in that entry 23:26:36 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-377-gdd46233 (34) 23:26:43 hm 23:26:51 ya there are but now I'm thinking about something else 23:26:59 gammafunk: were you around last night when I was talking about ignite poison 23:27:02 I forget 23:27:23 no, don't think so 23:27:27 you have plans for it? 23:27:37 let me guess: not removing it 23:27:57 removing it is stage 2 if stage 1 fails 23:28:14 what is 23:28:18 stage 1 ignite poison 23:28:19 I'm ready 23:28:20 I was going to remove it sometime in 0.16 but then I didn't 23:29:07 stage 1: remove everything but the 'burning poisoned enemies' and 'turn poison clouds to fire clouds' effects, tweak damage, reduce level by 1 or 2, add poison school, possibly remove tmut school, turn into a pproj-style duration with mp costs per enemy/cloud burned 23:29:12 simple 23:29:34 -!- filthy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:16 <|amethyst> hm 23:30:32 <|amethyst> I think I'd prefer MP cost per turn instead of per enemy/cloud 23:30:33 ??ignite_poison 23:30:34 ignite poison[1/1]: L5 Fire/Tmut spell that damages all (excluding you) in LOS that leave poisonous corpses or are poisoned (+cures it). Turns poison/str.poison/degen potions and poisoned ammo/corpses (excluding your inventory) to flame clouds. Ignites poison/noxious clouds. Makes a temporary venom brand into temporary fire brand. No effect on staff of poison or staff of Olgreb. 23:30:36 <|amethyst> fewer surprises 23:30:39 I'd be fine with that 23:30:59 so kind of like freezing cloud but with fire and only on poison enemies 23:31:04 and you don't aim it 23:31:08 the basic idea with turning it into a buff is just to reduce micro, since it's already fiddly by virtue of being a combo spell 23:31:13 potions to clouds (like trog book burning) is pretty complex 23:31:15 gammafunk: this version doesn't do anything to poison chunk enemies 23:31:23 just poisoned enemies 23:31:37 oh burning poisoned enemies 23:31:38 I see 23:31:38 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:31:53 otr syngery 23:31:56 ya 23:31:56 *synergy 23:32:08 the poisonous chunk removal is so close I can taste it 23:32:09 minmay: how does it taste 23:32:16 like a yak 23:32:16 <|amethyst> poisonous! 23:32:22 Don't remove poisoned chunks, please. 23:32:29 how about putrefying chunks. what are they even good for over no-corpse? (except gozag gold) 23:32:29 'tastes like yak' is clearly the crawl equivalent of 'tastes like chicken' 23:32:39 chequers: zombies? 23:32:48 excluding zombies 23:32:54 <|amethyst> though "ghoul zombie" is... 23:33:01 I guess it might just be skeletons, not zombies 23:33:04 I forget how that interacts 23:33:06 <|amethyst> either way 23:33:21 PleasingFungus: this damage would not be through e.g. flame clouds, but just special ignitie poison damage (hence you have more control over said damage)? 23:33:23 |amethyst: is it necessary for ghouls/necrophagi/bog bodies to leave corpses? 23:33:31 chequers: ghouls can eat putrefying flesh 23:33:35 well ignoring the lighting poison clouds bit 23:33:39 <|amethyst> minmay: that's what chequers was just asking 23:33:48 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:33:48 <|amethyst> well 23:33:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:33:57 -!- omnirizo1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:33:57 gammafunk: it's direct damage to poisoned enemies, yeah 23:33:57 <|amethyst> I guess there are a few other putrefying things 23:33:59 probably the smallest change is to replace putrefying with poisonous 23:34:01 <|amethyst> but even those are undead 23:34:04 Using poison chunks like trog spellbooks was one of my favorite uses of ignite poison. 23:34:09 <|amethyst> chequers: smallest in what sense? 23:34:17 I'm not even sold on the igniting poison clouds bit, I'm just a softy for dumb ghetto firestorm tech 23:34:18 least game affecting 23:34:20 smaller than replacing them with no-corpse or clean, I assume 23:34:22 or mutagenic 23:34:25 ^ 23:34:49 mutagenic chunks are probably less often eaten but they require a stronger lore connection IMO 23:34:57 <|amethyst> hm, I guess it's a smaller change than no corpse 23:35:10 I don't think there's any particular reason to change putrefying chunks. 23:35:17 <|amethyst> but I think it's reasonable to have "corpse that can be animated but not eaten" 23:35:23 Unlike poisonous chunks, they have no harmful effect on gameplay. 23:35:28 <|amethyst> and if ghouls are an exception, oh well 23:35:29 my reasoning was "simplification" 23:35:39 PleasingFungus: why do people compare that to fire storm, it's more like a flaming cloud spell. that takes like 2 turns and 11 mp to cast and has crap power 23:35:44 You can remove anything in the game for 'simplification'. 23:35:55 minmay: I assume the reason is that flaming cloud isn't a spell that exists 23:36:04 right, but most things have something more to be said for them than "no harmful effect on gameplay" 23:36:06 and also it's funnier to note that it costs more mp and is infinitely worse than firestorm 23:36:10 <|amethyst> making it so that everyone can eat ghoul chunks if they have a certain piece of equipment isn't necessarily simplification 23:36:12 chequers: yes, we just said them. 23:36:31 <|amethyst> I mean, it's less code 23:36:37 Muta chunks are important; for mutationroulette characters (Jiyva worshippers especially) add more mutations, awesome; get one too bad and I'll have my god remove it. 23:37:01 i don't think anyone is arguing to remove mutagenic chunks 23:37:04 <|amethyst> I'd rather turn poisonous chunks into putrefying chunks 23:37:04 PleasingFungus: I think those are harmful effects on gameplay 23:37:13 doy: I bet you someone is 23:37:27 minmay: those? 23:37:36 we can only fight the battles in front of us 23:37:36 <|amethyst> jiyva worshippers don't need mutagenic chunks do they? 23:37:37 PleasingFungus: chequers: yes, we just said them. 23:37:44 <|amethyst> I thought they mutated plenty fast as is 23:37:52 it's harmful to have monsters that can be reanimated but not eaten. 23:37:54 nobody needs mutagenic chunks 23:37:56 in your opinion. 23:38:06 am I understanding? 23:38:13 it's just, a tiny tiny number of monsters are putrefying, it's not like there's ever a case where some enemies being putrefying rather than poisonous/normal makes it hard to find edible chunks 23:38:15 PleasingFungus: I think that the interaction between those monsters and animate dead is weird and harmful 23:38:45 harmful? 23:38:50 <|amethyst> which monsters? putrefying? 23:38:51 harmful seems a bit strong 23:38:52 yes 23:38:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:00 <|amethyst> I do agree that animating those seems weird 23:39:02 I do agree there's not really any great need for putrefying chunks 23:39:03 I think it's weird that they can only be animated into skeletons 23:39:10 <|amethyst> since the general rule in crawl is that things can only be undeadified once 23:39:15 <|amethyst> c.f. no ghosts from undead 23:39:19 and is unnecessary, harmful complexity 23:39:21 <|amethyst> s/c\.f\./cf\./ 23:39:28 this argument seems very circular 23:39:34 it does 23:39:37 !seen circular 23:39:38 I last saw circular at Wed Sep 10 16:16:39 2014 UTC (28w 6d 12h 22m 59s ago) saying '!next-pref wn' on ##crawl. 23:39:40 poisonous chunks make branches like snake interesting, since there's only a few edible chunks in there for most people. But putrefying doesn't really result in any changed behaviour 23:40:09 I believe that complexity is inherently harmful, since ease of learning is a design goal; it therefore needs to have some redeeming feature that outweighs that harmfulness, which I do not believe putrefying chunks have 23:40:10 if you make the entirety of swamp putrefying, well, i would not hate on putrefying chunks :) 23:40:17 chequers: it's as much flavor as it is gameplay, yes. I don't think that's an active argument for removing it. 23:40:38 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:55 minmay: no player has ever died because putrefying corpses turn into skeletons instead of zombies when animated. 23:41:01 Well none of *my* gorgeous High Elves will be eating your filthy putrefying chuncks, that's for *sure*! 23:41:17 amulet of the super gourmand 23:41:20 <|amethyst> well 23:41:24 PleasingFungus: did players die because mountain dwarves were on the species screen? 23:41:29 * gammafunk tosses his long, blonde hair angrily! 23:41:43 mountain dwarves were not removed because they made the game too complex. 23:42:27 PleasingFungus: they were removed because they were fake variety that didn't add any depth, weren't they? 23:42:39 <|amethyst> look 23:42:40 <|amethyst> can we 23:42:43 <|amethyst> as a dev team 23:42:49 <|amethyst> find another place to conduct our business 23:43:13 ###not-crawl-dev 23:43:18 <|amethyst> because I'm sick of ##crawl-dev turning into GDD 23:43:26 what is it supposed to be? 23:43:29 I apologize 23:43:43 <|amethyst> I don't know, a place to work on crawl 23:43:49 <|amethyst> never mind 23:44:05 mountain dwarves: ##crawl-dev's Godwin's Law 23:44:32 I mean, a huge argument about putrefying chunks is goofy, and I'll accept any shame you want to heap on me for it 23:44:38 sorry if I contributed to a flamewar. My question re: putrefying was basically "if I write this patch would you merge it?" 23:44:45 let's remove Mi and add MD back 23:45:11 (and I guess the answer is no, so learning how save loading/conversion works is delayed another day) 23:45:11 let's remove bh 23:46:41 !abyss PleasingFungus 23:46:41 bh casts a spell. PleasingFungus is devoured by a tear in reality! 23:46:49 nooo 23:46:56 hoisted on my own petard! 23:47:02 *by 23:47:06 !lg . 23:47:07 2799. gammafunk the Caller (L8 HESu of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:9 on 2015-03-30 00:47:18, with 1201 points after 3710 turns and 0:28:25. 23:47:17 just pointing out that I did work on crawl today for once 23:47:23 instead of playing hesu 23:47:28 (so don't fire me) 23:47:32 work...? 23:47:34 what's that 23:47:53 I basicall did what reaverb told me to do 23:47:57 hopefully that's not unwise 23:48:16 DEFINITELY unwise. 23:48:24 !source food.cc:987 23:48:25 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/food.cc;hb=HEAD#l987 23:48:45 minmay: it could happen if you ate an unidentified chunk. another triumph for the id game 23:50:06 PleasingFungus: I bring it up because it should probably give the same message as poisonous instead 23:50:34 how about all the chunks you pick up go into a chunk pool 23:50:35 I'm nearly certain that code is unreachable 23:50:40 my last thing was a joke 23:50:49 I mean fwiw we could have a public ##crawl-gdd and a private ##crawl-dev perhaps with private logs, but I'm not sure if that's the answer 23:50:50 so if you eat from the chunk pool, you may get poisoned or mutated! 23:51:03 I quite like crawl's development being open. 23:51:50 though sometimes it's frustrating. 23:51:52 yeah I do as well, although it gets out of hand certainly, and I've contributed to that (since it the atmosphere tends to encourage it for some of us) 23:51:58 toxic.... 23:52:13 GDD's Toxic Radiance 23:52:20 has anyone else made that joke 23:52:29 nope 23:52:29 it's all yours 23:52:29 good 23:55:19 -!- Kittykai_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:55:20 mm, "static int _ignite_poison_monsters" returns either 1 or 0 23:56:48 bool is just fancy gibberish 23:56:53 ah, there is a reason