00:05:31 i wonder other crazy bugs have been sitting around for even longer that no one's noticed 00:05:31 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 (34) 00:05:31 nicolae-: I suspect something related to interger division >_> 00:07:14 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 00:10:12 probably. nothing good has ever come of integer division. 00:13:35 nicolae i bet i know who you are on SA 00:13:35 the poster named nicolae? it's possible.... 00:13:35 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:35 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:35 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:14:14 %git d5b758e 00:14:14 07DracoOmega02 * 0.13-a0-338-gd5b758e: Fix all monster attack flavours inflicting 0 damage 10(1 year, 11 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d5b758e0acb6 00:14:20 i have an earlier reg date than you. owned. 00:14:48 that had a pretty serious effect and lasted over a year 00:14:58 we even laughed out a guy on tavern who reported it 00:15:04 geez, i've been signed up for the SA forums for over a decade 00:15:23 geezos 00:15:41 argh 00:16:09 what's the name of that logical fallacy that people keep mentioning on the forums that occasionally turn out to be actual bugs 00:16:11 and yes I think it's no coincidence that these bugs that last forever tend to involve melee or missile damage :P 00:16:14 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:20 clustering illusion, but it isn't a logical fallacy 00:16:25 that's the one 00:16:41 just a psychological phenomenon 00:17:13 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:17:40 i got the sewer message, looked all over, found it... 00:17:43 it was a mimic 00:17:47 freaking brutal 00:17:51 it's a very good mimic 00:18:01 how does a mimic make those messages 00:18:16 it was hard to program but the mimics can talk now 00:21:39 it's a long con 00:21:39 ??goodforum[2 00:21:39 goodforum[2/2]: Has anyone else noticed ice beasts doing less damage than normal in the latest trunk? Seriously, they can hardly hurt high-AC enemies anymore. Summon Ice Beast is now near-useless as an anti-hydra and anti-bee weapon now, and it's easily outperformed by CCF. 00:21:39 ^That's the person who noticed the attack brand things like a year before it was ID'd by DracoOmega and fixed. 00:21:39 I think they actually came back to the tourney and I should probably PM them that happened. 00:21:39 ??goodforum 00:21:39 goodforum[1/2]: I should have known better, that strategy came from the wiki 00:21:39 -!- jspengler has quit [] 00:21:40 lol 00:22:19 rip 20 paragraph strategies 00:22:56 Oh yeah CDO is down. 00:23:12 man 00:23:17 this has been a bad day for crawl 00:23:37 i want to win this halfling but this just rally sucks. and if i wait i know i wont ever win because halflings are so boring. 00:23:59 nicolae_: Meh, we just found it it had been a bad two weeks for Crawl <_< >_> 00:24:23 Like I think it would have been worse if we found out like halfway through 0.17 or something. 00:24:36 fair. 00:24:44 how was it discovered? 00:24:57 wheals posted some fsim results 00:25:06 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:25:16 wheals noticed that A) winrate for this tourney was much higher B) Multiple people reported it felt like they were doing more dmg. 00:25:31 Then he investigated via. fsim, which made it obvious when directly compared to 0.15 00:25:46 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:26:23 -!- dustinm`_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:44 -!- walterch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:29:44 -!- dustinm` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:49 i think now that regardless of the fix this just killed all motivation i had for the tournament. yeah its a friendly thing and all but i was pretty glad not just being on a good team but seemingly contributing to it. the whole thing just stinks. 00:32:45 -!- jmr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:49 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:38 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:40 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:39:04 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:52 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:40:59 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 00:42:42 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:58 so what's the tl;dr of it? player melee damage was doubled? 00:50:14 post-ac pre-brand damage was doubled 00:50:27 (and still is doubled in 0.16 until we fix it there) 00:50:32 and yeah, just player melee 00:50:37 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:46 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:56 twelwe, I kind of feel the same way 00:53:56 I figured there was something wrong with constant !!!!!s on an exec axe 00:53:56 and the fact I suddenly could kill things with 1-handed weapons 00:53:56 but I hope it's fixed since I'd rather play proper crawl than this, "fairness" for tourney competition be damned 00:53:56 i want to own just not that hard is all 00:53:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:53:56 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:55:11 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:11 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 00:55:11 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 01:02:04 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:02:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:02:04 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:04 The build passed. (master - c3c9679 #2014 : reaverb): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/55342007 01:02:04 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:02:04 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:03:18 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:18 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 01:03:18 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 01:03:43 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:11 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:11:29 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:29 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 01:11:29 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 01:18:18 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:18 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:19:35 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 01:19:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 01:20:04 looks like Cheibriados is also having connectivity issues 01:20:15 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 01:20:34 everything is falling to pieces 01:21:10 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:21:44 -!- speranza has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:00 !lg . 01:22:01 2751. gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna), blasted by Mara (bolt of fire) on Shoals:5 on 2015-03-22 03:50:57, with 20698 points after 9231 turns and 1:12:39. 01:22:04 n1k: robbed 01:22:14 had on an ice ring I didn't even need any more! 01:22:17 oh no 01:22:22 !lg gammafunk x=tdam,mhp 01:22:23 2751. [tdam=70;mhp=66] gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna), blasted by Mara (bolt of fire) on Shoals:5 on 2015-03-22 03:50:57, with 20698 points after 9231 turns and 1:12:39. 01:22:25 one-shotted me when I walked into his los 01:22:29 yeah full hp 01:22:29 oh jeez, true 1-shot 01:22:40 worst part is shoals:5 was like 80% finished 01:22:42 that's a bummer 01:22:44 ilsuiw dead 01:22:49 only a few huts left 01:23:03 the ring of ice was for ice beast spellpower? 01:23:03 and it was the kraken/large hut one 01:23:09 so not like I would have died to it 01:23:10 what does that do? 01:23:11 yeah just initially 01:23:13 what do you mean by "looks like Cheibriados is also having connectivity issues" 01:26:22 Shard1697, it keeps reconnecting and disconnecting 01:26:22 is a bot 01:26:22 spell power increases hd and duration of ice beasts 01:26:22 hd is pretty helpful 01:26:22 oh, that's quite nice, yeah 01:26:22 but I had menag on like A:4 01:26:22 at that point I don't use beast really, could have taken it off 01:26:22 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:26:22 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:26:22 ofc waking up mara is a huge drag, but I could have teleported pretty safely on that level! 01:26:22 Yes, especially in shoals which has guaranteed "fire" attacking enemies 01:26:22 -!- djinni_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:22 well 01:26:22 actually it doesn't much have those 01:26:23 merfolk aquamancer (03m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 14 | HP: 52-73 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 913 | Sp: primal wave (3d20), steam ball (3d18), throw icicle (3d23), blink [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 01:26:23 %??merfolk aquamancer 01:26:23 it does have fauns and satyrs 01:26:23 oh there's ball of steam I guess 01:26:23 yeah 01:26:23 does that multiply damage though? 01:26:23 don't think it does 01:26:23 oh, I just assumed 01:26:23 good point though, I'm actually not sure 01:26:23 but still you can swap 01:26:23 (if you get a turn to act, that is) 01:26:23 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:23 my DEVM just had to do zot with 2 haste potions 01:26:23 the orb run was an absolute crisis (super fun!) 01:26:23 !log devm 01:26:23 No games for devm. 01:26:23 er 01:26:25 !log n1000 devm 01:26:25 1. n1000, XL25 DEVM, T:67745: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/n1000/morgue-n1000-20150322-054346.txt 01:26:53 n1k: I'd just ninja with that char 01:26:56 one upside of this is that it's gotten me to play mages for once 01:27:03 gammafunk, yes, that would have been much better 01:27:35 but clearly your actual plan worked just fine! 01:27:39 -!- djinni has quit [*.net *.split] 01:27:39 -!- hy-on-github has quit [*.net *.split] 01:27:45 with >50 ev and rF+++ (with !resist) I would have been quite safe 01:28:45 !lg . spen x=ac,ev,sh,mhp 01:28:46 4. [ac=11;ev=34;sh=12;mhp=142] gammafunk the Imperceptible (L24 SpEn of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-03-19 03:52:10, with 1472244 points after 83450 turns and 7:23:05. 01:29:00 sp speed there, but still 01:29:52 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:08 !lg . sp ev>40 s=ev,ac,mhp,ktyp 01:30:09 3 games for n1k (sp ev>40): 46 (7 (94 (winning))), 60 (14 (120 (winning))), 50 (16 (91 (mon))) 01:30:09 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:37 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:39 wow, 60 01:31:20 heh 01:34:27 agil pot? 01:34:27 !lg . sp ev=60 x=status 01:34:27 1. [status=phasing,very slightly contaminated] n1000 the Acrobat (L21 SpSk of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-04-16 06:30:21, with 1831765 points after 46351 turns and 4:43:13. 01:34:27 ah 01:34:27 phase 01:34:27 I wonder what an agility potion would have taken me to 01:34:41 -!- st_ has quit [Quit: ]] 01:36:35 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:43:00 -!- hy-on-github has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:42 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:57 -!- Limulus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:52:16 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:40 -!- Greyyy has quit [] 01:59:56 -!- Gamesmaster1965 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:01:30 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:07:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:07:59 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:11:19 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:14:48 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:16:04 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 02:16:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 02:16:57 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 02:22:51 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:51 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:22:51 -!- jspengler has quit [] 02:23:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 (34) 02:27:18 !lg * ac>100 02:27:20 8. Xen the Sorcerer (L27 DEFi of Kikubaaqudgha), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-21 05:46:35, with 13170637 points after 121739 turns and 6:36:04. 02:27:27 !lg * ac>100 s=ac 02:27:31 8 games for * (ac>100): 2x 107, 128, 305, 106, 219, 134, 102 02:30:56 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:30:56 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:32:11 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:11 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 02:32:11 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 02:34:12 hy-on-github: here's the crd thread. http://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/mailman/crawl-ref-discuss/?viewmonth=201503 02:35:27 ok, so, all of 0.16 (as compared to 0.15) ? 02:39:04 well, 8 march trunk onwards 02:39:04 [nods] 02:39:04 (as of Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:35:30 +0000 (11:35 -0500) ) 02:39:04 ok 02:39:04 Basically just started playing 0.16 in the tourney and I play wizards, so, didn't really notice that one 02:39:04 But I have a TeIE (yeah I play odd things) with Freezing Cloud, and my clouds were not obliterated by hellfire. 02:39:04 Is this by intent? 02:40:34 (if so, good for me!) 02:40:43 OR is this a bug? 02:42:07 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:42:24 -!- Pinechild has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:43:28 (Regular fire destroys them as expected) 02:47:08 (Just tested that wi Fire Giant) 02:47:08 -!- mumbologist has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:47:08 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:57:03 ??is_cdo_down 02:57:05 is cdo down[1/1]: 6 hours, 44 minutes, 51 seconds since last activity (cdo) 02:57:16 Murray (04z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 160 | AC/EV: 30/10 | Dam: 20, 20 | 07undead, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2383 | Sp: sum.undead [06!sil], black mark [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 02:57:16 %??murray 02:59:23 -!- buki has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:44 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:03:38 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:19 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:23 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:32 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:01 well, seems like i can't wait to let cdo's hardware checked.. since it crashes every day now 03:12:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:12:36 :( 03:13:36 lua-bot-induced tournament DoS-manipulation conspiracy 03:14:49 Napkin: glad to have you back :) Will cdo then be offline for 14 hours or so? 03:15:14 (or longer) 03:19:35 -!- Gretell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:35 -!- Napkin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:54 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:38 -!- Chunes has quit [] 03:25:21 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:00 -!- ly^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:31 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:31 -!- Sorbius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:11 (cdo back up) 03:52:37 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:00:39 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:02:32 -!- genja has quit [Client Quit] 04:02:54 -!- grusha5 is now known as grisha5 04:04:26 -!- grisha5 has quit [Client Quit] 04:05:08 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:05:39 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:16:58 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:21:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:21:39 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:23:30 -!- ssteam has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 04:33:58 !lg * t v=0.16.0-b1 s=src 04:33:59 1202 games for * (t v=0.16.0-b1): 801x lld, 401x cxc 04:34:19 Those didn't have have the double damage bug it seems. 04:40:48 Medar: we should double their score 04:40:55 :) 04:41:04 elliptic just proposed we go ahead and fix 0.16 and try to get all servers updated 04:41:25 so we'll probabaly do that unless someone strenuously objects 04:41:29 ??rebuild 04:41:29 rebuild[1/2]: https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 04:41:37 ??servers 04:41:38 servers[1/1]: See {cao}, {cszo}, {cbro} (US), or {cdo}, {clan}, {cxc} (EU), or {cwz}, {lld}, {cpo} (Asia-Pacific). Also http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto 04:41:56 Sounds good to me 04:42:06 !hs * t 04:42:07 48861. TALISMASHER the Acrobat (L27 DDBe of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-22 01:02:56, with 54837871 points after 26353 turns and 2:37:50. 04:42:35 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<20000 04:42:36 1. [2015-03-21 08:04:49] y94 the Slayer (L27 VSBe of Makhleb) found a fiery rune of Zot on turn 17068. (Pan) 04:43:03 !lg * t s=v 04:43:04 48872 games for * (t): 47630x 0.16.0, 1203x 0.16.0-b1, 39x 0.16.0-a0 04:43:17 Is there a way to check more accurate version? 04:43:21 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<20000 (( alive || won )) 04:43:22 No milestones for * (t urune=10 rune turns<20000 ((alive || won))). 04:43:29 Medar: vlong 04:43:33 Thanks 04:43:45 can use <= etc 04:44:11 !lg y94 vsbe 04:44:12 56. y94 the Chopper (L1 VSBe of Trog), got out of the dungeon alive on 2015-03-22 09:24:38, with 0 points after 1 turn and 0:00:05. 04:44:21 !lg y94 vsbe urune>=10 04:44:22 1. y94 the Slayer (L27 VSBe of Makhleb), mangled by a hill giant (a +0 giant club) (created by the rage of Trog) on Abyss:5 on 2015-03-21 08:26:11, with 823801 points after 18644 turns and 4:45:54. 04:44:36 wow 04:44:40 !lg y94 vsbe urune>=10 x=urune 04:44:41 1. [urune=10] y94 the Slayer (L27 VSBe of Makhleb), mangled by a hill giant (a +0 giant club) (created by the rage of Trog) on Abyss:5 on 2015-03-21 08:26:11, with 823801 points after 18644 turns and 4:45:54. 04:45:01 !lg y94 vsbe urune>=10 x=gid 04:45:02 1. [game_key=y94:cao:20150220010155S] y94 the Slayer (L27 VSBe of Makhleb), mangled by a hill giant (a +0 giant club) (created by the rage of Trog) on Abyss:5 on 2015-03-21 08:26:11, with 823801 points after 18644 turns and 4:45:54. 04:45:03 !lg . min=turn 04:45:03 471. Medar the Exhumer (L1 DsDK of Yredelemnul), quit the game on D:1 (eino_entry_tree_alley) on 2013-02-01 21:45:53, with 20 points after 0 turns and 0:00:53. 04:45:14 !lg . won min=turn 04:45:14 81. Medar the Executioner (L24 VSFi of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-03-18 10:52:38, with 3281839 points after 22189 turns and 2:05:42. 04:45:17 I thought I was awesome :) 04:46:15 I've done like 39k for 15 but wasn't with a good species 04:46:36 !lg y94 vsbe urune>=10 x=gid 04:46:37 1. [game_key=y94:cao:20150220010155S] y94 the Slayer (L27 VSBe of Makhleb), mangled by a hill giant (a +0 giant club) (created by the rage of Trog) on Abyss:5 on 2015-03-21 08:26:11, with 823801 points after 18644 turns and 4:45:54. 04:47:07 !lm * gid=y94:cao:20150220010155S rune s=turns,noun o=-turns 04:47:08 10 milestones for * (gid=y94:cao:20150220010155S rune): 7151 (gossamer), 7929 (decaying), 8627 (slimy), 10925 (silver), 12744 (golden), 14730 (demonic), 16613 (dark), 16669 (magical), 16893 (glowing), 17068 (fiery) 04:47:12 !lg * t vlong<0.16-b1-22 s=src 04:47:13 440 games for * (t vlong<0.16-b1-22): 401x cxc, 39x cbro 04:47:15 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:02:20 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:49 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:16 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:04 -!- t4nk494 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:03:07 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:29 -!- jmr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:13 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:04:24 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:06:50 -!- Bovinius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:14 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:28:51 is the fix committed? 06:30:10 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:34:39 to master, yes - http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3c9679156c570da4fa017b53329b233ee90c02d 06:37:55 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:37:56 -!- Xenobreeder_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:40:17 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:50 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:46:22 -!- Thurasiz has quit [Client Quit] 06:46:52 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:29 -!- Kolbur has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:24 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:16:16 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:36 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:39 -!- buki_ is now known as buki 07:32:06 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:31 -!- MDvedh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:37:35 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:22 OOPS 07:40:53 In the spirit of wheals noticing player damage seemed high and checking it out, I'm gonna check spectral weapon damage after reaverb's revert. It always seemed comically high to me. 07:41:05 -!- kuniqs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:44:53 well yeah 07:45:03 something felt a bit off about two-shotting hell sentinels at 25 unarmed 07:49:46 -!- CacoS_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:23 -!- endou has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:00 damage_done = hurt; damage_done += calc_damage(); 07:54:29 such an itty bitty oversight 07:59:31 by the looks of it then it might just be only the base attack that is affected 08:00:21 -!- ly^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:46 which is still huge because that's where most of the damage comes from, but at least things like VS/Te weren't extraordinarily broken as they could have been 08:06:05 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:06:29 ??epic_bugs[$] 08:06:29 epic bugs[24/24]: e0bdd66 roughly doubled player melee damage. This was not noticed until around halfway through the 0.16 tournament. 08:07:15 !learn edit epic_bugs[24] s/e0bdd66/The git commit e0bdd66/ 08:07:15 epic bugs[24/24]: The git commit e0bdd66 roughly doubled player melee damage. This was not noticed until around halfway through the 0.16 tournament. 08:17:06 -!- ashudal has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:57 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:30:38 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 08:45:23 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:44 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:55:19 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:55:58 ??epic_bugs[23 08:55:58 epic bugs[23/24]: if (item.base_type = OBJ_BOOKS) 09:00:40 -!- WhodaMan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:02:45 hm, so shall we go ahead and start getting the bugfix on as many servers as possible? 09:04:37 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:02 I'm in favor of that 09:05:42 Also, fwiw, I don't see a bug in spectral weapon, but it does appear that "working as intended" increases your damage potential by >= 2x. 09:06:37 I've never been that impressed by spectral weapon on non-polearms because it feels like the weapon takes a lot of time moving to a position where it can hit things 09:06:44 agreed 09:06:49 but we should certainly reevaluate the balance of it at some point 09:06:51 it's too awkward to be effective 09:06:55 but on polearms . . . 09:09:18 so I guess I'll go ahead and cherry-pick reaverb's revert to 0.16 and rebuild the servers that I can (I think that is CAO CBRO CLAN CSZO) 09:09:56 hopefully other people here can make CDO CXC CPO rebuild too 09:10:42 and maybe gammafunk can use his amazing twitter powers to get the word out to dplusplus, and hopefully either hong will show up again or someone will notice him playing 09:11:28 some servers will have the bugged version longer than others, but I don't think that's a major issue 09:11:43 any objections? 09:19:25 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:47 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:39 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:37 -!- Dunsworth has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:28:39 -!- kuniqs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:30:40 03reaverb02 {elliptic} 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16.0-18-g484a79e: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=484a79e65fdf 09:30:52 <|amethyst> Hm 09:31:07 <|amethyst> you know, it would have been easier to spot that if wizmode showed the damage done 09:31:35 <|amethyst> but anyway, that's the last bug I "fixe" 09:31:38 <|amethyst> s/xe/x/ 09:31:39 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:33:15 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e 09:33:22 :/ 09:33:24 Hmm, should have asked |amethyst to rebuild CDO. 09:33:28 oh well. 09:33:35 -!- luminescence has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:33:50 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:34:03 wizmode showing damage done does sound reasonable 09:34:14 I think debug already does it? 09:34:16 though this sort of bug is still hard to catch I think 09:34:34 yeah, debug shows lots of other stuff too though which makes it hard to pick out the relevant things 09:34:52 okay CAO CBRO CLN CSZO are rebuilding 09:35:17 Grunt: if you are around, can you rebuild 0.16 CDO? 09:35:55 Medar: if you are around, can you rebuild 0.16 CXC? (I assume some other devs have rebuild rights on CXC but I don't seem to) 09:36:06 chequers: if you are around, can you rebuild 0.16 CPO? 09:36:42 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:50 <|amethyst> CDO rebuilding 09:36:52 thanks 09:36:58 thanks 09:37:05 <|amethyst> Could someone please undo the melee attack merging 09:37:16 <|amethyst> I mean, the player/monster merging 09:37:45 <|amethyst> it's not very useful to merge the two when the functions do entirely different things based on whether then attacker is a monster or a player 09:38:00 <|amethyst> in particular, calc_damage only sets damage_done if the attacker is a player 09:38:18 anyone here with CXC rebuild rights? 09:38:30 im on phone 09:38:45 <|amethyst> on it 09:39:02 thx 09:39:40 |amethyst: yeah, the way every single function in melee_attack.cc has an "if (attacker->is_player())" is pretty bad 09:39:55 <|amethyst> that wouldn't be so bad 09:40:02 <|amethyst> if at least the calling convention were the same 09:40:19 <|amethyst> does it set damage_done? does it return a value that should be assigned into damage_don? 09:40:22 <|amethyst> both? 09:40:52 Stable (0.16) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e 09:41:02 <|amethyst> Hmm 09:41:15 <|amethyst> Did the CDO rebuild get announced? 09:41:21 <|amethyst> because it claims to be finished 09:41:31 <|amethyst> !seen gretell 09:41:31 Sorry |amethyst, I haven't seen gretell. 09:41:34 |amethyst: Gretell isn't here, yeah 09:41:39 <|amethyst> ah 09:41:50 (but CDO seems to be up) 09:41:57 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:13 |amethyst: hm, the CAO rebuild seems to have failed: 09:42:22 Installing game 09:42:22 Installing game binary (crawl-0.16) in /chroot/usr/games 09:42:22 Copying game data files to /chroot/crawl-master/crawl-0.16/data 09:42:22 chown: changing ownership of `/chroot/crawl-master/crawl-0.16/saves/icemanSX.cs': No such file or directory 09:42:22 Failed: returned 1 09:42:43 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:46 <|amethyst> huh 09:43:34 -!- Ropi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:43:46 starting a new game is in the correct version at least 09:44:36 Should I rebuild cbro or is it already rebuilding? 09:44:40 it is rebuilding 09:44:41 <|amethyst> yeah, that chown is the last step 09:44:49 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e 09:44:52 <|amethyst> I guess no one managed to hit that race condition before 09:44:56 and it has rebuilt :) 09:45:01 <|amethyst> it only matters for stable 09:45:21 <|amethyst> hm... or, at least, is easier to hit in stable 09:45:39 (CLAN is still compiling) 09:45:40 <|amethyst> since in trunk it will be a new save dir 09:46:29 <|amethyst> The reason wizmode doesn't show damage, btw, is no longer relevant 09:46:46 <|amethyst> now that we have explore mode 09:48:47 <|amethyst> %git 0c56e2b2b88 09:48:47 07galehar02 * 0.11-a0-2763-g0c56e2b: Revert "Show damage numbers in wizard mode." 10(2 years, 8 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0c56e2b2b887 09:49:48 Displaying damage numbers kinda defeat the use of wizmode for playing a normal 09:49:51 game without permadeath. 09:49:56 okay 09:50:06 <|amethyst> though I guess debug mode works somewhat better now, since you can turn off more of the messages 09:50:34 I didn't realize that was actually the reason not to have damage numbers in wizmode 09:50:44 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:51:04 they do seem like a good thing to have though 09:51:24 even if debug mode is more usable (I should use it more...) 09:52:03 I've been complaining about that wizmode change for 2 years and 8 months 09:52:23 <|amethyst> %git 542d34698 09:52:23 07kilobyte02 * 0.9-a1-1306-g542d346: A script to show damage counts in wizmode. 10(3 years, 8 months ago, 1 file, 89+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=542d34698faf 09:52:41 <|amethyst> "As as side effect, all monsters receive 10000 hp and stop moving" 09:52:43 -!- ssteam has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 09:53:19 <|amethyst> I guess fsim wasn't working well in 0.9 09:53:28 yeah 09:53:36 <|amethyst> (I know the rewrite happened after that) 09:53:39 isn't it still broken for axes 09:54:17 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:03 excellent, I managed to reach dplusplus (by means of tiles chat) about updating 0.16 on LLD 09:56:18 and tmuts with melded weapons and whatnot 09:56:36 cszo is still rebuilding? 09:56:40 !tell hong Can you update 0.16 on your server? There is an important bugfix. Thanks! 09:56:41 elliptic: OK, I'll let hong know. 09:56:43 Lasty: no, it finished 09:57:00 at least for 0.16, I haven't been worrying about what servers have the bugfix in trunk 09:57:13 hmm. My game in progress didn't prompt me to update 09:57:41 !lm * cszo 0.16 max=vlong x=vlong 09:57:43 125642. [2015-03-22 14:35:41] [vlong=0.16.0-18-g484a79e] EndlessMike the Shield-Bearer (L1 FoFi) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 09:57:51 !lm lasty x=vlong 09:57:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:57:52 8310. [2015-03-22 13:54:58] [vlong=0.16.0-17-g811c1d7] Lasty the Slayer (L24 DrBe of Trog) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 56716. (Depths:5) 09:57:59 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:00 fair nuff 09:58:02 &dump lasty 09:58:03 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/Lasty.txt 09:58:23 &git 09:58:24 I think maybe stable just doesn't prompt you? 09:58:25 <|amethyst> It doesn't ask about transfers on stable 09:58:28 oh ah 09:58:30 %git 09:58:30 07reaverb02 * 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3c9679156c5 09:58:33 <|amethyst> stable uses just one directory 09:58:40 -!- tstbtto has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:58:40 <|amethyst> you don't have a choice there 09:58:51 <|amethyst> (well, one directory per release) 10:01:08 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:01:18 okay, I'll be away for the next few hours... my understanding of the rebuild situation is that: CAO CBRO CDO CLAN CSZO CXC are updated, server admins have been asked to update for CPO and LLD, and for CWZ we still need to get in touch with hong 10:02:13 oh right, CLAN hasn't actually finished rebuilding yet 10:02:16 so slow 10:02:28 oh it just finished I guess? 10:03:06 oh no 10:03:12 too many rebuild tabs open 10:03:20 CLAN is still chugging away at compiling 10:03:35 anyway, I'm away 10:07:37 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:08:26 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:09:09 updated but does server need to do anything? 10:10:30 just curious if the effects will be felt right now 10:10:58 shmup: Once the server is rebuilt, anybody who reloads a game or starts a new one will be affected by the changed. 10:12:07 ah, all right 10:15:47 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:55 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 10:19:52 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:52 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:24:42 Bleh, we need more crawl-servers. 10:27:59 so is it ethical to play those mucks if I always quit instead of winning 10:31:14 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:03 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.3/20150319201009]] 10:35:32 -!- hy-on-github has quit [Quit: hy-on-github] 10:41:00 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:42:45 -!- hy-on-github has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:07 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 10:46:55 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e 10:47:44 ontamu (L6 GrWz) (D:4) 10:48:49 um? 10:48:53 !crashlog ontamu 10:48:53 1. ontamu, XL6 GrWz, T:2090 (milestone): http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/ontamu/crash-ontamu-20150322-154742.txt 10:52:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:17 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:05:32 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 11:06:04 -!- psuedo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:07:22 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzwecha 11:23:29 elliptic: Gave you admin rights on CXC. 11:23:34 Anyone else missing those? 11:23:56 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:34 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:38 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 11:31:03 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:23 Oh yes that reminds me. 11:31:27 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:35 Somehow the top AC games are like over 300 AC. 11:31:45 I think it's because of embrace? 11:31:56 (the new spell) 11:31:57 yeah, that seems likely 11:34:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:54 It's hard to account for all the silly characters that are able to exist temporarily as new content (and bugs) are introduced 11:35:48 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:53 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:21 Ah, all the pople doing it also worship kiku. So they're probably spamming summon corpses for a while to get tons of fuel for embrace. 11:39:25 Before winning. 11:39:36 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:57 My damage dropped from !!!! to !!!. This is a disaster. 11:40:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:19 Yeah the kiku corpse spam -> Embrace looks like the issue. So I guess we just remove the AC + EV thing for 0.17 ? 11:44:23 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 11:44:31 Given it was already completely dominated by Gr. 11:45:40 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:45:51 yeah, probably for the best 11:51:20 -!- Ropi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:54:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:05:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 (34) 12:06:00 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:06:09 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:11:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:32 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:00 -!- Orphic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:19:24 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:06 -!- Kolbur has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:50 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 12:20:59 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:56 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:49 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:25:41 -!- psuedo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:20 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:41 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:14 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:41:18 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:43:01 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:49:21 &version 12:49:24 reaverb, the top game used nearly 100% of its kiku piety at the exit before casting C's Embrace 12:49:30 *: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 12:50:30 n1k: I was suspecting something like that. I looked up the tyrec but it didn't work entirely right on my connection. 12:50:41 I don't know whether getting rid of the AC+EV contest is better than perhaps capping the spell, though? I haven't really tested how many corpses one needs for "only" +100 AC, etc 12:50:59 but maybe it should be capped/stepdowned 12:51:49 %git stone_soup-0.16 12:51:49 07reaverb02 {elliptic} * 0.16.0-18-g484a79e: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=484a79e65fdf 12:55:06 chequers: Can you update 0.16 on cpo? 12:55:14 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:18 -!- HoloIRCUser1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:59:39 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:02:40 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:59 elliptic: Are you going to update the tournament page and should I make a wordpress announcement? Or did you want to wait until 100% of servers were updated? 13:07:02 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:09:37 -!- fd has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:10:01 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:13:32 -!- Floodkiller has quit [Client Quit] 13:14:13 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:16:29 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:11 -!- ragingrage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:18:36 supposedly a power cable was blocking the cpu fan... let's see if CDO runs longer now 13:19:43 -!- jspengler has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:21:47 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:13 Napkin: haha, don't think our unix commands could solve that one 13:24:09 could have checked cpu temp.. maybe i should, beside monitoring hdd temp 13:25:26 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:25:50 !version 13:25:51 trunk: not found; 0.16: not found; 0.15: not found; 0.14: not found; 0.13: not found; 0.12: not found; 0.11: not found; 0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415 13:26:01 ??bots 13:26:01 bots[1/3]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Rotatell (CBRO, ^), Eksell (CXC, |); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? & and others) 13:26:37 -!- Thurasiz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:27:24 $version 13:27:28 trunk: 0.17-a0-121-gf94917f; 0.16: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e; 0.15: 0.15.2; 0.14: 0.14.2; 0.13: 0.13.2; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.4 13:27:34 ^version 13:27:34 @version 13:27:34 trunk: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679; 0.14: 0.14.2; 0.13: 0.13.2 13:27:47 odd how some are not reported 13:27:49 eh, not true 13:27:59 I think this has been about either the best or worst (depending on your perspective) week for crawl I can remember 13:28:04 cdo has trunk, 16, 15 & 14 - 13 removed 13:28:16 minmay: I liked the Berder post in that cyc thread about this 13:28:21 minmay: ...how could it be best? 13:28:22 yes that was good 13:28:22 it appeared like magic 13:28:39 |version 13:28:39 trunk: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679; 0.16: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e; 0.15: 0.15.2; 0.14: 0.14.2 13:29:01 I think the "dungeon crawling advice" subforum might as well be removed as long as berder still posts there 13:29:30 only user playing on lld: placentusthejuicy 13:30:41 wow 13:31:04 %git stone_soup-0.16 13:31:05 07reaverb02 {elliptic} * 0.16.0-18-g484a79e: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=484a79e65fdf 13:31:28 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:55 interesting, lld is running 0.16.0-19-gc5d8ecd 13:31:59 which doesn't eist 13:32:01 *exist 13:32:07 probably has local commits? 13:32:09 yeah 13:32:14 gonna see if I can find out what 13:32:37 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 13:32:38 "Thin tendrils of slime have grown from your body" -- what the heck does that mut do? 13:33:07 psuedopods I think 13:33:16 bh: does is say something like that on A 13:33:26 ?/pseudopod 13:33:27 Matching terms (1): pseudopods; entries (3): auxiliary_attacks[3] | mutation_list[4] | slime_mutations[1] 13:33:32 ??pseudopods 13:33:32 auxiliary attacks[3/4]: | Punch: 5 + UC skill / 3 + (6 with blade hands) + (claws mutation level)d3 with claws (does not stack with blade hands) | Bite: (fangs mutation level * 2) + (str - 10) / 5; + 2d4 with acidic bite mutation (and possible corrosion) | Pseudopods: 4 * (pseudopod mutation level) | Squeeze: 12 13:33:36 I always thought it was not allowed for server owners to run a non-repo version 13:33:37 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 13:33:44 ??? 13:33:50 at least if you wanted to be an official server 13:33:54 gammafunk: It says that on A, but there are also other pseudopod muts 13:34:03 How could we disallow severs from operating a non-repo ver- OK. 13:34:05 bh: I don't think there are? 13:34:11 ??tendrils 13:34:11 tendrils[1/1]: Jiyva-only mutation that has a chance (depending on str/dex vs HD) to disarm monsters and pull their weapon underneath you when attacked in melee. 13:34:15 ah 13:34:22 yeah that's a diff. mutation 13:34:33 pseudopods says pseudopods 13:34:42 that's why dbro exists. so I can host non-repo experimentals. mostly my own abominations 13:34:52 (when are we adding ?/m(U)tation) 13:35:02 johnstein: well we don't have any checks happening from e.g. Sequell to ensure this 13:35:06 I think it's fine if it isn't a balance change? I highly doubt any server operator would put a balance change in without telling anybody. It's probably like cdo makefile commits - just something to make it compile on their machine and/or work better somehow. 13:35:30 johnstein: i suspect it's the webtile changes that lld has, maybe? 13:35:36 like the links that are in the logs 13:35:40 probably 13:35:53 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:13 yeah I don't see commits in dplusplus's repo that are recent or for 0.16 13:36:22 so I'm not sure what that is 13:37:49 if you added a patch that made you always win, we might be a little cross 13:37:57 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:37:57 but other than that :) 13:38:34 Well obviously we don't want admins tweaking their sequell-tracked non-experimental games locally 13:38:37 Why are abyss-spawn 'non-living', instead of demonic or a unique holiness? 'chaotic' or similar? 13:39:17 because hangedman has opinions 13:40:21 how do I stop --more-- on Jiyva actions? It's totally disruptive in sprint 13:40:26 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:40:43 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:57 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:42:16 runrest_ignore_message maybe? 13:42:23 or colour them mute 13:49:09 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:36 * gammafunk colours wheals DARKGREY! 13:49:50 * wheals colors gammafunk DARKGRAY 13:52:15 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:53:56 -!- Ironfoot has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:20 -!- FiftyNine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:26 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:42 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:02 Bcadren: I think someone thought holy wrath was overpowered or something 13:55:34 or that abyss has too many demons, so it should have monsters that are functionally identical to demons for 99.9% of characters instead 13:55:37 How long has this "double all player melee damage" bug been in the game? I hope my recent wins weren't based on a bug 13:55:55 %git e0bdd66 13:55:55 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66: Fix a crash with cleaving + infusion vs spectral weapons. 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 14+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0bdd66d849c 13:55:59 -!- kuniqs has quit [Client Quit] 13:56:09 since that 13:56:54 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 13:57:23 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:57:36 k 13:57:56 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:59:15 double damage melee is probably still weaker than summonings so I think some of you are feeling worse about it than you should :P 13:59:53 minmay: Current summons? Hmm. 13:59:58 current summons, yes 14:01:03 the moment minmay will say something that is remotely positive in nature will be the last day on this planet 14:01:08 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:01:46 i was actually trying to be positive there 14:02:09 Apocalypse Crabs and Raiju are Demonic. Rest of them are non-living. A few make sense {Spatial Maelstroms and Wretched Stars}. Rest are a surprise...I guess that is for the immunity Holy Wrath (even though Zin still hates them and they are weak to silver). 14:02:46 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:23 ugh 14:03:33 i hate how this stupid web irc client doesn't keep my ignores between sessions 14:03:43 maybe you should use a real client then! 14:03:54 ^ 14:04:06 yeah 14:04:10 You also get logs!!!! 14:05:13 you could pretty much make all non-living monsters demonic and it would have very little effect on gameplay since in the part of the game where abyss is actually dangerous, holy wrath is basically useless everywhere outside of abyss, so you're unlikely to have spent enchant scrolls on it 14:05:28 wheals is an irc client hipster 14:05:50 and other non-living monsters basically don't exist in hells/pan/crypt/tomb (the other places where holy wrath is not basically useless) 14:05:52 my favorite client hexchat doesn't actually work on winxp is the thing 14:05:56 yes 14:06:02 I was going to suggest upgrading your os at the same time 14:06:06 colateral damage 14:06:29 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:31 i'll get a new computer one of these days 14:06:50 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:52 obviously it would be stupid to make golems/orbs of fire/etc demonic but doing it for the abyss monsters that absolutely everyone assumes are demonic at first, would make those assumptions correct without affecting gameplay in any other significant way IMO 14:07:09 buy it with steam profits! 14:07:10 worldbinder (10x) | Spd: 14 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-51 | AC/EV: 12/4 | Dam: 8, 8 | 11non-living, 10doors, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 513 | Sp: forceful invitation [06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: animal. 14:07:10 %??worldbinder 14:07:23 like how could anyone expect this thing to be nonliving, seriously 14:07:26 minmay: what's ! do in zaf? 14:07:29 i'd suggest just making all the non-number demons numbered... 14:07:35 er 14:07:37 in za! 14:07:41 kinda silly how it is now 14:07:43 Lasty: fire even if targeted square is out of range 14:07:48 Lasty: it's like enter but better 14:08:03 Lasty: except worse because it's in a shitty place on the keyboard, but if it were enter instead of enter, it would be better 14:08:29 -!- Ironfoot has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:29 minmay: when would that ever be useful in a za! macro? 14:08:40 Lasty: dunno but it's easier to macro than enter 14:08:54 heh, fair nuff 14:09:06 It does start a command if you use it w/ an untargeted a spell 14:09:23 oh, that's true 14:09:26 i dont actually macro spells 14:09:51 fair nuff 14:10:02 enter and f can also screw you up there though 14:10:28 when was the fix made active on CAO? 14:10:39 I wonder if macroing actions could be encouraged somehow--set up 1-9 as a "skill bar" of sorts 14:10:44 !lm * cao x=vlong 14:10:49 rast: I think elliptic triggered the rebuilds basically at the same time 14:10:49 5010649. [2015-03-22 19:10:41] [vlong=0.16.0-18-g484a79e] Shuf the Arsonist (L9 DEFE of Vehumet) killed Maurice on turn 7253. (D:8) 14:10:52 so unless theres some "fire like enter or ! or f if you are targeting something, and otherwise do nothing at all" command that i dont know about, za! is not clearly worse in a macro than zaenter or zaf 14:10:53 minmay: how would enter screw you up? 14:10:57 !lm * cao 1 vlong=0.16.0-18-g484a79e 14:11:02 !time 14:11:03 this is something I haven't thought about much 14:11:03 Time: Mar 22, 2015, 07:11:03 PM, UTC. The 2015 0.16 tournament ends in 7 days, 48 minutes and 56 seconds. 14:11:12 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:12 1/1932. [2015-03-22 14:36:57] shamanglove the Charmwright (L1 HESk) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 14:11:28 when i do ?V in game it says This is Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.16.0-18-g484a79e 14:11:35 is that the fixed version? 14:11:38 yup 14:11:51 Lasty: could cancel a --more-- or confirm the previous spell in many circumstances, couldn't it? 14:11:53 (stable doesn't ask you before upgrading) 14:12:02 the upgrade is in ?: 14:12:28 though I guess the former is a plus with some untargeted spells (why does refrigeration have to do this) 14:13:04 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:07 wheals: whoa really? good think I parked all those mucks in trunk 14:13:16 of course that was before I actually knew about this bug 14:13:35 !locateall * muck trunk 14:13:42 antibuttmutarobin: CSZO 0.17-a, L1 MuCK of Xom || Kellhus: CXC 0.17-a, L7 MuCK of Xom || minmay: CSZO 0.17-a, L1 MuCK of Xom || mutabuttskillrobin: CSZO 0.17-a, L1 MuCK of Xom || Ragdoll: CDO 0.16-a, L1 MuCK of Xom | CDO 0.16-a, L1 MuCK of Xom | CDO 0.16-a, L1 MuCK of Xom || Roundrobin: CSZO 0.16-a, L1 MuCK of Xom || SGrunt: CBRO 0.15-a, L1 MuCK of Xom || skillmutarobin: CSZO 0.17-a, L1 MuCK of Xo... 14:14:19 minmay: Why did you originally park all these MuCK? 14:14:22 minmay: you'd think so, but actually no -- it doesn't clear more prompts that pop up in the execution of the same macro. I tried doing that intentionally with macros once. 14:14:27 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:14:33 reaverb: rod of shadows benefitting from OOD timer 14:14:41 probably possible with lua 14:14:42 minmay: Ah. 14:14:43 Lasty: huh. I'm not sure if I like that or not 14:14:53 I don't like it, but it seems to be how it work 14:14:53 s 14:14:56 reaverb: it just seemed like such an appropriate bug to exploit with muck 14:15:09 reaverb: i dont plan on actually winning any of these of course, that would be unethical 14:15:20 also, the bug turned out to not really be exploitable 14:15:27 minmay: why did you park them? 14:15:35 nah its exploitable, just not as exploitable as it could have been 14:15:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:05 mostly just in case 14:16:14 we've still got like 20 or 30 DgJrs in reserve 14:16:38 watch as i land abstract worshippers and force-transfer them all!!!! 14:17:29 if you want, I can quit them 14:17:37 or anyone can since they're all robins 14:18:06 we should just break save compat 14:18:19 ...during the tournament 14:18:57 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:19:29 !lm sar x=vlong 14:19:29 15247. [2015-03-22 19:08:29] [vlong=0.16.0-18-g484a79e] Sar the Caller (L5 OpSu of Sif Muna) became a worshipper of Sif Muna on turn 4451. (D:3) 14:19:37 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:20:38 ... in case of what? 14:20:44 Lasty: "hahaha here i thought minmay was just really excited about being able to give this guy a macro" 14:20:46 removal of Mu or CK? 14:20:59 Lasty: in case someone wants to play a muck with broken rod of shadows and/or doubled melee damage 14:21:03 lol 14:21:09 Lasty: same reason I parked the DgJrs, in case someone wants to play a dgjr 14:21:14 heh, fair nuff 14:21:32 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:21:35 are you advocating for a change to rod of shadows? 14:21:37 !won * dgjr 14:21:38 * (dgjr) has won 3 times in 107 games (2.80%): 3xDgJr 14:21:57 we already fixed the thing 14:22:01 .j 14:22:02 Jesters: tartakower (OpJr:27), mikee (DrJr:27), uuuu (FeJr:20, MiJr:16), pivotal (DsJr:12), blackcustard (OgJr:7), Kizi (SpJr:6), ophanim (TrJr:4) 14:22:02 Lasty: what do you mean? 14:22:19 .dj 14:22:20 Djinn: neil (DjFE:27, DjFi:1), chorus (DjAr:27), dyno (DjFi:27), JINNI (DjHu:27), BlankDiploma (DjWz:24), MarVin (DjDK:23), jaruokki (DjFE:20), Srednar (DjBe:17), snicka (DjFi:17), jamesjoyce (DjCj:16), Allspice (DjGl:16), drflammable3 (DjFi:13), chukamok (DjFE:13), XomNoticesYou (DjCK:12), Kriegwolf (DjFi:12), Charos (DjAs:12), kyprion (DjWz:12), Fingolfin (DjFi:11), Peterdivine (DjFi:11), spotsl... 14:22:29 Lasty: rod of shadows had a bug that made it benefit from the OOD timer 14:22:35 lol 14:22:38 I didn't realize 14:23:03 it also happens to be ridiculously overpowered but that is the case with all summons and necromancy 14:23:17 so i probably shouldnt pick on rod of shadows specifically 14:24:38 to be fair, rod of shadows is the only way for players to summon caustic shrike packs 14:25:46 Lasty: I chose muck because it is nearly impossible to ruin stats with it even abusing these bugs (you'd have to beat the xomscumming score) 14:26:26 ah, smart 14:33:28 Lasty: can I bring up MP formula change again yet 14:34:21 minmay: sure. I'm very interested in that. 14:38:50 ... were you going to make a proposal? 14:38:51 Lasty: [Spellcasting]+[XL] for base MP is really close to the current situation for early and late characters 14:39:01 ah, there it is 14:39:04 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:22 Lasty: without the gross part where spellcasting skill's benefit increases with XL 14:39:26 Yeah. 14:39:38 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:47 it is a nerf to "midgame characters" so I'm thinking maybe you could remove spell hunger to compensate! 14:40:12 I feel pretty good about that. It'd be slightly lower mana pool in the early game, and a higher max at the top end, esp. for +mp races. 14:40:20 but I don't think that's bad 14:40:31 how would Invo/Evo work in this scenario? 14:40:55 gammafunk: I'm not sure a tourney page announcement is necessary in this case. A wordpress announcement would be good at some point certainly (and we should try to release 0.16.1 soon so that our binaries don't have the bug) 14:41:26 Lasty: you could use max of spellcasting/invo/evo instead of just spellcasting (the set of characters that train those skills for mp is pretty small...) 14:41:44 Lasty: not convinced they actually need to give less MP than spellcasting 14:41:46 -!- Pluie has quit [Client Quit] 14:41:51 the announcement can just say that "most servers" have the fix now, I think CPO and CWZ are the only ones that do not yet 14:42:04 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:14 Lasty: of course the fighting HP bonus has the same problem but I think this one is easier to fix without disrupting balance 14:42:14 I suppose even if they do give less, it could just be a fixed amount like 0.75 and that'd be fine. 14:42:57 yeah 14:43:18 I'll try adding that in 0.17 14:43:20 MP cap is removed by now right? 14:43:20 I think simplifying the MP formula would be good but I'd need to look at the numbers to see how much minmay's proposal changes 14:44:06 iirc spellcasting + xl would also be a buff to most endgame characters 14:44:43 human goes from 49 to 54, yeah 14:45:08 minmay: I'm not sure if it is, but I'd like to remove it 14:45:17 it's not :( 14:45:32 minmay: how much MP does an XL 27 human with 20 spellcasting get currently? I think substantially less than 47? 14:45:34 !apt mp 14:45:35 MP: DE: 3!, Sp: 3!, HE: 2, Fe: 2, Dg: 2, VS: 1, Te: 1, Fo: 1, Mf: 0, DD: 0, Ko: 0, Gr: 0, Na: 0, Mu: 0, Ha: 0, Op: 0, Dr: 0, Ds: 0, HO: 0, Vp: 0, Og: 0, Hu: 0, Ce: -1, Gh: -1, Tr: -2*, Mi: -2* 14:45:42 elliptic: 48 14:45:53 I suppose deep elves would cap at like 70 14:45:54 really? hm 14:46:06 yeah, human caps at about 49 right now 14:46:07 Lasty: yes that's problematic too 14:46:07 DE gets 70, yeah 14:46:16 -!- Gorice has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:46:16 70 seems excessive 14:46:27 Lasty: I know it has 49 with max skills currently but I didn't know it got 48 with only 20 spellcasting 14:46:43 well, if the values are just "too high" you can just multiply by 0.8 or whatever 14:47:00 elliptic: er, excuse me, I didn't switch back from DE. it gets 46 14:47:02 elliptic: oh, I see 14:47:21 !cmd mp 14:47:21 No command !mp 14:47:23 !cmd !mp 14:47:23 No command !mp 14:47:28 aw 14:47:44 minmay: okay, that sounds more like what I would have expected (although I would have guessed 44 or 43) 14:48:03 the biggest change probably happens around XL10 (human with XL10 and 10 spellcasting goes from 28 to 20 max MP) 14:48:03 one option is to make the MP racial apt multiplier weaker 14:48:42 I don't care if it's a strict nerf to max MP, just not sure how much player whining is considered acceptable 14:49:12 anyway as I said I think using a simpler formula would be good, I think it will have to be more complicated than just spellcasting+xl though (and that's fine, look at HP for an example of something a bit more complicated) 14:49:15 also, the only reason DE doesn't get 64 max MP already is because of the cap at 50 14:49:23 minmay: that's not true 14:49:27 elliptic: the HP formula has the same problem... 14:49:36 i think it would get, like 53 otherwise 14:49:45 I mean, right now DE gets approximately the same max mp as humans; making the formulae reasonable means giving them significantly more or nerfing their apt. 14:49:51 elliptic: it's not? wouldn't it just be 49*1.3? 14:49:54 elliptic: Well, I'm fine with updating wordpress, but it seems maybe odd to not have anything on the tournament page at all given that's what people check for information about the tournament. Would you object to just a short "NOTE: See the following Blog post regarding 0.16 and the tournament" on the tourney overview? 14:50:00 minmay: the 1.3 is applied before the stepdown afaik 14:50:01 I suppose the mp modifier could also be a flat bonus 14:50:03 If you feel strongly it shouldn't be on there, I'm certainly fine with that 14:50:09 minmay: maybe I'm wrong though 14:50:18 Oh, that explains why the mp modifier always seemed sucky 14:50:48 gammafunk: sure, linking to wordpress seems fine... but this isn't really about the tournament IMO given that we fixed the bug and aren't compensating for it in tourney in any way 14:50:59 species mp modifier is applied to only your XL 14:51:06 okay so 14:51:13 if an MP aptitude of +30% doesn't give you +30% MP 14:51:16 why the fuck is it called +30% 14:51:23 elliptic: yeah, I realize it doesn't affect the tourney *process* but it does affect the results players have seen an how they interperate those results :) 14:51:26 well, i didn't know that... 14:51:35 it's on the aptitude screen 14:51:38 MP: +30% 14:51:41 HP: +30% 14:51:51 the HP one actually adds 30% HP, apparently the MP one does not actually add +30% MP 14:51:56 i know, i didn't know that when i made it display like that 14:51:59 do you see why I was confused about this 14:52:00 I guess chequers is afk and I can't reach hong 14:52:01 gammafunk: sure, putting a link at the top of the overview scoreboard page seems reasonable 14:52:07 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:52:16 what makes you think *i'm* not confused by this 14:52:22 minmay: yes 14:52:41 I talked to some players on cwz, and they pointed me to the korean message boards to reach hong but..I can't do anything with those websites since they're all in korean 14:53:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:53:21 can you try to PM him on them? 14:53:32 wheals: if you'd like to try, please do! let me get the links 14:53:36 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:47 i think PleasingFungus has a friend who knows korean too! 14:53:51 if only he were around 14:54:10 more of an acquaintance than a friend 14:54:17 friend of a friend 14:55:05 does someone need to contact the cwz admin? 14:55:09 I was given http://webzook.net:82/gb5/bbs/board.php?bo_table=free and http://nethack.byus.net/gnu4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board 14:55:42 the latter is linked on the webzook home page, the former is a subforum for discussion, and the forum software thingy itself is linked on webzook as well 14:56:12 maybe I should just create an account HONGPLEASEUPDATE016 on cwz and idle it 14:56:16 away for an hour 14:56:18 (not serious) 14:56:39 gammafunk: why not 14:56:51 PleasingFungus: I think I would sooner just create 14:57:05 PLEASINGFUNGUSFRREMOVESHADOWTRAPS and idle on cszo 14:57:12 I'm retired. 14:57:12 not because I care, but just because it's fun to troll 14:57:26 elliptic is the one who's going to remove/fix shadow traps. 14:57:40 (xl+spellcasting)*0.8 gives 1 less mp to most starting characters, 16 mp to XL10/10spc human (was 28), 32 mp to XL20/20spc human (was 43), 56 mp to XL27/27spc deep elf (was 50) 14:57:56 i still say the only fix shadow traps need is to be exclusive to early D 14:57:56 How much mana is it reasonable for a player to have as a natural result of Spellcasting and XL? I think it's reasonable for humans to top out at somewhere around 45-50, which implies DE should top out around 58-65. 14:58:19 !apt de 14:58:20 DE: Fighting: -2*, Short: 0, Long: -1, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: 0, Slings: -2, Bows: 1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 1, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 3, Shields: -2, UC: -2*, Splcast: 3!, Conj: 1, Hexes: 3, Charms: 4!, Summ: 1, Nec: 2!, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: 1, Poison: 1, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: -1, HP: -2, MP: 3! 14:58:33 -!- Orphic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:58:46 Lasty: I guess if you extrapolate +30% but it does feel like more of a balance question 14:59:03 gammafunk: yeah 14:59:13 I mean, maybe +30% mp just isn't balanced 14:59:24 to be clear my motivation for a formula change is 1. i don't like the stepdown (and especially not +30% MP not actually giving +30% MP), 2. i don't like skills that are affected by XL 14:59:37 I don't see how +30% mp can possibly be less balanced than +30% hp 14:59:42 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:45 yeah agree there really 14:59:47 and +30% hp has been real since forever 15:00:04 I mean at 27 SC it's not like anything can kill you even currently unless you're very dumb 15:00:14 the +MP species are bad anyway currently except for spriggan and demigod 15:00:22 oh and VS 15:00:29 that's untrue just see my HE games 15:00:31 and uh felid but I prefer to pretend those dont exist 15:01:00 still I don't think MP is why spriggan and demigod are good :P 15:01:14 I know I was told no more 0.15 glitches; but this one is kind of major. In offline tiles (at least), Thunderdome saves don't load (at all). 15:01:21 No, I don't think anyone would argue that's why they're good 15:01:23 and the change would still be a nerf to them for most of the game 15:01:27 well, *some* people might actually 15:01:34 can't believe you'd nerf dg........ 15:01:59 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:02:04 -!- TR_Muscateer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:02:09 why would nerfing dg bother me? I'm one of the strongest proponents that Dg is one of the most winnable species 15:02:27 and believe it or not, I actually like balance 15:02:27 !lg minmay recent dg 15:02:28 209. minmay the Slayer (L27 DgNe), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-07-01 01:50:28, with 1586150 points after 90058 turns and 3:23:32. 15:02:34 !lg minmay recent dg !boring / won 15:02:35 8/188 games for minmay (recent dg !boring): N=8/188 (4.26%) 15:02:38 terrible 15:02:48 balance...? 15:02:50 those are largely scummed 15:02:58 uh 15:03:01 minmay: what is this "balance" thing 15:03:04 I don't think I've heard of it before 15:03:09 game data does not lie? 15:03:15 PleasingFungus: its something that good games have 15:03:18 o 15:03:22 I don't see how that's relevant, then. 15:03:30 I wouldn't say Dg is strong. I would say it's boring, though significantly better than Hu of No God; worse than Hu with a powerful god choice. 15:03:31 yes. i was dunking you there 15:03:36 or dunking crawl, rather 15:03:45 yeah but name a good game! 15:03:57 chess? 15:03:58 crypt of the necrodancer 15:03:59 go 15:04:02 hoplite 15:04:04 I like HE too 15:04:11 Lasty: aw, thanks 15:04:14 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:00 The Magical Realms of Tír na nÓg: Escape from Necron 7 – Revenge of Cuchulainn: The Official Game of the Movie – Chapter 2 of the Hoopz Barkley SaGa 15:05:01 i dont hate HE or anything, ive had a lot of dreams about them and stuff, but you'd have a hard time convincing me that they are better than Hu 15:05:04 minmay: I think it's ok if there's some attenuation away from +30% mp for spellcasting skill, just that it not be so terribly much 15:05:38 like the current state is (re: max mp) 15:05:45 attenuation? 15:05:59 PleasingFungus: as in, DE has +30% maxmp compared to Hu 15:06:05 at 27 SC 15:06:12 gammafunk: I disagree, I think it's awful that +30% HP works on fighting skill and XL hp, but +30% MP does not work on fighting skill and XL mp 15:06:28 if there's no attenuation, that would be exactly the case, which is what I guess minmay is proposing 15:06:31 MP probably should not work on fighting skill. 15:06:33 if HP apt never worked either then it wouldnt bother me as much 15:07:13 I mean fuck, +30% MP doesn't even work right with 0 spellcasting 15:07:15 minmay: you would be more arguing for better MP costs in spells then, I think 15:07:27 how does that...? 15:07:28 I mean, MP is not the same as HP, right? 15:07:42 i think HP wasn't a real percent forever, just since 0.9 or so 15:07:47 fsvo forever i guess 15:07:48 wheals: yes 15:07:55 I agree it's not as elegant that there's not the same situation you describe 15:08:08 wheals: but when HP was changed to a percent, it actually worked in most cases instead of in none 15:08:26 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:08:50 yes the mp apt situation is very unideal right now 15:09:06 !lg . 15:09:07 2759. gammafunk the Caller (L7 HESu), blasted by a soul eater (drain life) (summoned by miscasting Summon Ice Beast) on D:6 on 2015-03-22 19:29:11, with 569 points after 2753 turns and 0:16:22. 15:09:11 a +30% MP apt gives you +40% MP if you are an xl27 deep elf with 0 spellcasting, and +5% MP if you are an xl20 deep elf with 20 spellcasting 15:09:22 that shouldn't ever happen (to me) 15:09:32 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:09:44 I now fully support the removal of soul eaters 15:10:10 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:10:13 replace with sole eaters 15:10:20 with the terrifying summon fish 15:10:27 you might as well hide MP apt altogether like MP/level was hidden in old versions, if it is going to almost never be +30% 15:11:05 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:10 you guys should argue about whether or not damage should be displayed while I'm away 15:11:19 since someone in the sa thread brought it up again wrt recent bug 15:11:22 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141207030205]] 15:11:27 here's my contribution: no, absolutely not :p 15:11:36 !tell PleasingFungus But I need your opinion first so I can disagree with it!!! 15:11:37 gammafunk: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 15:11:52 gammafunk: that's totally incorrect 15:12:03 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:30 well, I'm inclined to try some form of flat mp in 0.17, and I'd like to push something not long after the tourney 15:12:39 maybe it'll suck, and then we can revert it 15:12:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:13:10 Lasty: Define "flat mp" ? 15:13:22 None of those awful stepdowns? 15:13:25 yes 15:13:31 what we've been discussing 15:13:47 Sorry I just came in, I'll go read the logs. 15:13:47 a fixed bonus per XL and per Spellcasting, or something close to that 15:13:51 oh, ah 15:15:23 I really do think (max(spellcasting,invo,evo)+xl)*0.8 would work well, it's almost a strict nerf 15:15:57 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:06 So lets see. HuWz would start with what, 5 * 0.8 = 4 mp? That's the same. 15:16:07 invo and evo could be multiplied by whatever they currently are of course 15:16:16 so how's things been since the reveal of the Great Annihilating Truth (About Melee Damage) 15:16:18 !apt dd 15:16:18 DD: Fighting: -1, Short: -1, Long: 0, Axes: 1, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: -1, Slings: 1, Bows: -3, Xbows: 1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 3, Shields: 1, UC: -1, Splcast: -2, Conj: -1, Hexes: -2, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: 1, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -1, Fire: -1, Ice: -1, Air: -3, Earth: 3!, Poison: -2, Inv: 3!, Evo: 4!, Exp: -1, HP: 2, MP: 0 15:16:27 nicolae-: Melee Damage and You 15:16:29 HuWz woulds tart with 4 * 0.8 = 3(.2) mp 15:16:37 they get 3 spellcasting not 4 15:16:54 oh ah 15:16:57 wheals: i wanted to tie in the 0.16 tagline, you see 15:17:22 DEWz would actually get 7(.02) mp because mp aptitudes would actually work 15:17:40 but it's a nerf to races that are actually good except sp and dg :P 15:18:05 and vs, again 15:18:07 (DgWz would keep its current MP) 15:18:08 and maybe he 15:18:38 what's the discussion now 15:18:40 it turns into a nerf for VS very early 15:18:55 to unnerf the other races, increase spellcasting apts that are below 0 by 1 15:19:03 need to restore human simplicity! 15:19:06 wheals: i like your double damage post 15:19:18 oh did wheals make a wordpress post? 15:19:24 No 15:19:27 he made a post 15:19:27 oh no, yeah that one 15:19:44 I considered reporting him for topic derailment 15:19:45 Lasty: actually it's a nerf to VS even at game start 15:19:48 and thankscumming 15:20:11 Lasty: and to Dg as well 15:20:20 with the 0.8 multiplier 15:21:06 I'm cool with changing spellcasting like that. I do think getting over 60+ MP with any char might be problematic, but I"m sure we can cross that bridge when we come to it. 15:21:39 reaverb: highest MP character with (spellcasting+xl)*0.8 would be 56 MP (deep elf or spriggan with both at 27) 15:21:40 gammafunk: who would this hypothetical reporting be to 15:21:56 reaverb: and it is a nerf to all characters for a long time 15:22:05 wheals: probably a helpful and attentive tavern moderator would see it and act accordingly 15:22:15 minmay: That specfically forumla sounds fine! 15:22:21 s/ally// 15:22:27 gammafunk: oh, do you know any? 15:22:28 reaverb: pretty sure it is a nerf to +10% MP and lower species for the entire game 15:22:47 I'd be fine with boosting spellcasting apts to compensate 15:23:01 wheals: Yes, I'd look for the one with the highest thanks / posts ratio 15:23:27 would that be arrhythmia? 15:23:32 Yeah we can twiddle with spellcasting apts, A+ to this suggestion. 15:23:33 or sandman 15:23:43 not most thanked! 15:23:45 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23:46 er 15:23:49 most thanks given! 15:24:11 agreed, most thanks given is the proper metric 15:24:20 glad you see it my way 15:24:21 reaverb: originally I just wanted spellcasting skill to not be affected by XL, but then I learned that +30% MP apt virtually never actually gives you +30% MP. now i'm MAD 15:24:36 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:24:40 Yes that seems like a good cause for concern! 15:24:50 I'm already planning to lower all Evo apts by 1. We could also lower all Stealth apts by one, slightly boost the stealth modifier for all races, and get humans to all 0s 15:25:04 * gammafunk says to wheals' thanks, "You haven't seen the last of me!". gammafunk is destroyed! 15:25:13 Does the energetic mutation also cause the same "not actually +30%" effect? 15:25:24 no, it comes later 15:25:30 so it's actually better in most cases 15:25:41 Lasty: invo! 15:25:55 wheals: oh right. 15:26:02 also xp, i guess 15:26:15 (just nerf all exp apts by 1 with no actual change) 15:26:53 I could probably support just lowering all Evo by 1. The game has changed around the skill to make it better. (I guess maybe not that elemental evokers don't let you use multiples of the same type anymore (?)) 15:27:51 yeah, evocations getting a bonus is definitely silly now that the skill is overpowered instead of bad 15:28:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28:57 how many gods still use invocations? 15:29:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:17 Almost all of them :p 15:30:23 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/Spellbinderer2.png ontoclasm pls 15:30:23 Bloax: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 15:30:53 Bloax: kinky 15:31:32 beogh, chei, dith, ely, fedhas, lugonu, makhleb, okawaru, qazlal, sif, yred, zin, tso, I guess that's still quite a few 15:32:07 I am surprised how short the list is (or rather how long the list of "doesn't use Inv" is) 15:32:17 trog, nemelex, gozag, ru? 15:32:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:32:32 oh, and xom 15:32:34 those don't use invocations skill 15:32:39 and Kiku and Ash, 15:32:52 7 out of (someday) 27 15:33:00 and jiyva and trog 15:33:03 oh you listed trog 15:33:07 <_miek> vehumet 15:33:12 and vehumet 15:33:20 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:41 -!- Cacophony has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:34 Unrelated: I'm thinking about Removing Sure Blade. It's another "You should always have this active" buff, and it really isn't necessary. The fact it exclusively appears in the book of maledictions implies it's for En to get started...but En would remain a top tier background even if it was removed with EH, Confuse and Enslavement. 15:38:48 I feel great about removing it 15:38:56 replace with Unsure Blade 15:39:04 which just makes Xom do things 15:40:05 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:33 clearly give En ozo's armour instead >_> 15:40:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:33 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<20000 (( alive || won )) 15:42:34 No milestones for * (t urune=10 rune turns<20000 ((alive || won))). 15:42:51 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<23000 (( alive || won )) 15:42:52 3. [2015-03-22 15:17:02] Tabstorm the Executioner (L25 DDBe of Makhleb) found a dark rune of Zot on turn 20315. (Pan) 15:43:03 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<23000 alive 15:43:04 No milestones for * (t urune=10 rune turns<23000 alive). 15:43:09 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<25000 alive 15:43:10 No milestones for * (t urune=10 rune turns<25000 alive). 15:43:14 !lm * t urune=10 rune turns<30000 alive 15:43:15 No milestones for * (t urune=10 rune turns<30000 alive). 15:45:10 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:14 there was a little talk of giving tukima's to en when removing enslavement, i think 15:45:29 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:46 wheals: seems reasonable. Might make sense to give Tukima's a success boost too. 15:47:55 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:17 What's the idea behind removing Enslavement? power level? 15:48:40 or encoruaging stashing monster to enslave them? (I haven't seen this but suspect it's possible) 15:49:20 "better than murder and appears also in wand form" iirc 15:51:44 enslavement isn't very fun to use when you have completely unfettered access to it 15:52:16 All good reasons! Yeah I wouldn't mourn Enslavement. 15:52:27 gammafunk: there's a pun in there, just yearning to break free 15:53:10 wheals: I guess I'm... 15:53:12 !glasses 15:53:12 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 15:53:12 I imagine this would include removing the spell entirely? (since it's also in control and debilitation) 15:53:20 ...SLAVING the best for last... 15:53:25 reaverb: i think the wand would stay at least 15:53:37 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:44 i would be surprised if the wand was removed though 15:53:45 Yeah, I mean "the spell" not "the effect". 15:53:52 oh yes, spell 15:54:06 Yes, I'd like to see the player spell removed 15:54:15 or, failing that, bumped up to level 7+ 15:54:16 remove players, also 15:54:35 it'd open up some design space for hexes, at least 15:54:46 not sure what kind of effect it would have on AM 15:54:50 removing players would? 15:54:56 That would make DEAM pretty unwinnable. heh. [Edgecase, I'm sure]. 15:55:13 no it wouldnt 15:55:20 Do people play AM? 15:55:20 have an effect? 15:55:20 yes hi 15:55:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:55:36 sorry i just responded to Bcadren so just ignore my previous statement 15:55:43 oh i see 15:55:49 or rather, i don't see ;) 15:56:26 reaverb: enslavement and inner flame are a fun combo! but enslavement on its own is pretty good regardless and they will be just fine without enslavement (cause fear is still pretty good). they will have a missing spell though which is probably what you were referring to 15:56:38 DEAM is only fun playing Inner Flame and Enslavement against each other. It would make all AM a lot harder and races that are bad with bows almost impossible. 15:56:55 give them tukima's, but for ranged 15:56:59 battletukima's 15:57:11 mesmerize 15:57:29 silence!!! 15:57:35 I don't think every starting book needs a spell at every level . . . 15:57:40 wrong. 15:57:43 cause fear is also level 4 15:57:49 simmarine: and berserker rage and haste? 15:57:50 Mesmerize would be useless to players except in really edgecases that would make players want to lure enemies to bodies of water. 15:57:51 so its not even a case of needing every level 15:58:08 ??book of debilitation 15:58:09 book of debilitation[1/1]: Corona, Slow, Inner Flame, Enslavement, Cause Fear, Leda's Liquefaction 15:58:18 it would still have five spells though 15:58:20 ??book of flames 15:58:20 book of flames[1/1]: Flame Tongue, Throw Flame, Conjure Flame, Inner Flame, Sticky Flame, Fireball 15:58:24 Enemies just don't run. 15:58:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:37 that has 5 since nobody ever uses inner flame on FE :P 15:58:42 yes 15:58:48 well no one really uses am book either really 15:58:51 really 15:59:06 and even if they do, they dont use inner flame or ledas (what a shame for the latter) 15:59:08 give them alistair's 15:59:17 I do. FE^Kiku using on own undeads. 15:59:22 wheals: that sounds fun 15:59:29 NO! Alistair's is great; but wrong spellschool. 15:59:30 Isn't a hex though? 15:59:35 ??alistairs 15:59:35 alistair's intoxication[1/1]: L4 Transmutation-Poison spell. Has a (40 + power/3)% (max 73%) chance of confusing each natural, non-poison resistant monster in line of sight with greater than animal intelligence. Has a (60 - power/3)% chance of affecting you, even with rPois, if you do not have a source of clarity. Also drains 1-3 points of intelligence 5% of the time. 15:59:35 ??alistair's 15:59:36 alistair's intoxication[1/1]: L4 Transmutation-Poison spell. Has a (40 + power/3)% (max 73%) chance of confusing each natural, non-poison resistant monster in line of sight with greater than animal intelligence. Has a (60 - power/3)% chance of affecting you, even with rPois, if you do not have a source of clarity. Also drains 1-3 points of intelligence 5% of the time. 15:59:42 oh 15:59:45 gell's!!!! 15:59:48 spells have been reflavored before! 15:59:57 yeah, gells might be funny with AM 16:00:03 ??gell's 16:00:04 Don't touch Alistair's. 16:00:04 gell's gravitas[1/1]: L5 Hex/Tloc in the books of the Warp and Hinderance, new for 0.16. Pulls creatures (excluding the caster) towards a target creature (including the caster!), smashing them into each other, like a one-turn {singularity} without the direct damage. 16:00:10 if people arent using ledas, they certainly wouldnt ever use gells 16:00:13 not even i use gells 16:00:25 Maybe we can drop it's spell level? 16:00:25 well #notevensimm 16:00:25 there was talk of gell's reform 16:00:28 inner flame the middle guy and then gell's him 16:00:29 s/well // 16:00:30 ??leda's liquefaction 16:00:30 leda's liquefaction[1/2]: Level 4 earth/hexes spell, found in the book of the Earth. Generates a halo of "liquefied" ground around the caster. Moving on liquefied ground has a -3 player movement malus. Applies slow movement effect to monsters. Doesn't affect flying, clinging, insubstantials; cannot be cast by these. 16:00:35 everybody bonks into him, he explodes 16:00:40 synergy. 16:00:42 I mean if you make an effect cheap enough it eventually becomes Worth It. 16:00:50 I'm sure both those spells would be used if they were level 1 16:00:51 gammafunk: did you know summon forest is a Fun spell, i dont know if youve actually ever bothered with it 16:01:01 simmarine: oh I def. use it 16:01:02 (Well maybe they're not worth the turn I guess.) 16:01:09 do you use it on hesu at all 16:01:09 it's lovely in shoals for me 16:01:12 yes 16:01:22 Hell a Charms Ranger with like Swiftness and PProj would get more use methinks haha. 16:01:24 lower gell's to 1, see if anyone uses it, and then just keep doing a binary search until you find the right level 16:01:32 in swamp it's not quite as good since hydra destroy the dryad pretty easilly, but still very usable 16:01:43 gells probably has potential for am if you want a replacement instead of removal, but it'd have to change a lot 16:01:46 HEY SPEAKING sorry caps hey speaking of dryads... 16:01:56 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:56 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:57 summon forest is a great spriggan killer 16:02:08 @??dryad 16:02:09 dryad (09R) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 40-63 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Dam: 10 | spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | Vul: 04fire | XP: 350 | Sp: awaken vines, awaken forest, minor healing (2d4) [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 16:02:17 wow healing 16:02:21 yeah... 16:02:33 i stand by maintain range suggestion 16:02:37 nicolae-: I really think that's a good idea. L2 is probably enough. 16:02:40 It can heal itself for 8 hp? 16:02:41 ??gell's gravitas 16:02:41 gell's gravitas[1/1]: L5 Hex/Tloc in the books of the Warp and Hinderance, new for 0.16. Pulls creatures (excluding the caster) towards a target creature (including the caster!), smashing them into each other, like a one-turn {singularity} without the direct damage. 16:03:07 maybe 3 but smitey? 16:03:08 yeah. is it smite targeted? 16:03:12 what wheals said 16:03:12 yes 16:03:19 it's already smitey 16:03:21 !calc 8.0 / 52.0 16:03:21 0.15 16:03:23 oh 16:03:27 some people were complaining it wasn't 16:03:30 reaverb: that's 15% of its hp! 16:03:35 oh maybe it isnt then and i already forgot 16:03:41 i feel like inner flame should be smitey too but i imagine that's come up before 16:03:43 i casted it in lair a few times and then amnesia'd it 16:03:45 Yea only useful with good combo with inner flame, I believe. 16:04:03 inner flame becoming smite would be a good buff 16:04:04 SPFLAG_DIR_OR_TARGET, so, um, 16:04:23 combine gell's with an inner flame effect, if the gell's victim gets hit by too many monsters it will collapse into a singularity 16:04:45 fr rename singularity schwarzchild's schadenfreude 16:04:50 Best use for Inner Flame right now is Corpse Bombing. [Undeads don't become hostile when Inner Flamed, you use it on an Orc Skeleton or similar] 16:05:14 * Bcadren sighs. 16:05:30 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:41 back again 16:06:03 Anyone really use Inner Flame for anything other than the Anim-Skele combo? 16:06:08 no change re: cpo and cwz 16:06:21 !seen chequers 16:06:22 I last saw chequers at Sun Mar 22 11:28:51 2015 UTC (9h 37m 30s ago) saying 'is the fix committed?' on ##crawl-dev. 16:06:28 I didn't realize it was my job to remove/fix shadow traps but I guess I can do something about them sometime in 0.17 :P 16:06:31 rip 16:06:40 wheals: probably sleeping because time zones 16:06:57 -!- TR_Muscateer has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:01 yeah, just funny since the last thing he did was check if anything happened 16:07:02 <_miek> its 8am in aussie 16:07:07 actually doesn't cpo rebuild automatically? 16:07:09 !tell PleasingFungus Nice try buddy: I didn't realize it was my job to remove/fix shadow traps but I guess I can do something about them sometime in 0.17 :P 16:07:09 gammafunk: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 16:07:11 is that just trunk? 16:07:12 wheals: only trunk 16:07:16 %git stone_sou-0.16 16:07:16 Could not find commit stone_sou-0.16 (git returned 128) 16:07:18 %git stone_soup-0.16 16:07:18 07reaverb02 {elliptic} * 0.16.0-18-g484a79e: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=484a79e65fdf 16:07:35 i guess that doesn't say when it was actually committed 16:07:43 Can one of you guys commit to 0.16 so that stops pinging me :D 16:07:44 / cherry-picked 16:08:06 %git :/double 16:08:06 07reaverb02 {elliptic} * 0.16.0-18-g484a79e: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=484a79e65fdf 16:08:20 reaverb: commit title: Don't ping reaverb 16:08:22 I don't think git ever keeps track of when something was actually pushed/attached to a branch? Just when it was committed. 16:08:25 i'll cherry-pick this "rename wizards 'reaverbs'" commit by pleasingfungus, should fix everything 16:08:26 how do I get the 0.17 commit number 16:08:27 gammafunk: hehe. 16:08:38 %git 16:08:38 07reaverb02 * 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679: Don't double all player melee damage (Revert e0bdd66d8) 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3c9679156c5 16:08:50 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:08:53 PINNNNG! 16:09:20 I see some servers still haven't rebuilt trunk with the fix either 16:09:25 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:35 oh really... 16:09:42 &versions 16:09:43 ??rebuild 16:09:43 rebuild[1/2]: https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 16:09:52 rebuilding clan trunk now 16:09:52 elliptic: doesn't seem like a problem, really? 16:10:00 CAO: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679, CBRO: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679, CDO: 0.17-a0-119-g2b06fc5, CLAN: 0.17-a0-121-gf94917f, CPO: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679, CSZO: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679, CWZ: 0.17-a0-77-gee7a2f2, CXC: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679, LLD: 0.17-a0-82-g5ecaa0d 16:10:14 not many people are playing trunk and people can refuse to transfer even 16:10:18 wheals: it's not a big issue, no, but might as well rebuild what I can 16:10:26 more like what you 16:10:28 !glasses 16:10:28 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 16:10:29 clan 16:10:36 <_miek> is that a bug in the 0.16 tournament? 16:10:40 It was. 16:10:40 very much so 16:10:49 <_miek> damn and I felt so proud of getting 3 wins :P 16:10:54 as in "older games in the tournament had that bug". 16:11:05 the bug affected almost all older games in the tourney yes 16:11:11 !lg * won t s=job 16:11:11 CXC didn't have the bug for the first few days 16:11:12 Yeah lots of people have said they thought they were actually getting good. 16:11:12 1246 games for * (won t): 218x Fighter, 174x Berserker, 98x Gladiator, 76x Monk, 55x Hunter, 46x Assassin, 44x Enchanter, 42x Abyssal Knight, 39x Wanderer, 37x Fire Elementalist, 37x Transmuter, 36x Ice Elementalist, 34x Warper, 33x Earth Elementalist, 32x Skald, 32x Artificer, 32x Wizard, 31x Venom Mage, 28x Conjurer, 25x Chaos Knight, 25x Necromancer, 24x Summoner, 24x Arcane Marksman, 24x Air E... 16:11:20 I hope wheals realizes how soul crushing being publicly told your thoughts don't matter is. 16:11:22 <_miek> haha I got my first extended win with that bug 16:11:37 nobody's thoughts matter 16:11:48 in five billion years the sun will engulf the earth 16:11:53 and then where will your thoughts be? 16:11:54 !lg * t vlong=0.16-b1 16:11:55 401. cachaos the Covered (L8 MiBe of Trog), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:6 on 2015-03-15 19:57:29, with 1903 points after 5373 turns and 1:06:05. 16:11:58 burnt all to heck, that's where 16:12:04 More tourney wins of melee backgrounds than anything else...huh. 16:12:05 ^ those were the unbugged games at the start if anyone cares 16:12:09 nicolae-: these kind of statements are what we have hangedman for, tyvm 16:12:25 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:12:27 It's the clearest example of Fundamental attribution error I've ever seen. 16:12:39 %git stone_soup-0.16^{/fusion} 16:12:39 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-b1-18-g9590bb8: Fix a crash with cleaving + infusion vs spectral weapons. 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 14+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9590bb8900ea 16:12:43 wheals: hangedman isn't around 16:12:43 -!- Ciappina has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:12:47 wait, shit, is he? 16:12:49 or... is he 16:13:01 * wheals looks nervously at the list of present users 16:13:20 * nicolae- looks nervously at wheals 16:13:29 * wheals hides under the floor! 16:13:36 everybody, put some blood in a petri dish and i'll poke it with a hot wire 16:13:38 <_miek> 401 games without the bug? 16:13:49 401 games with the bug. 16:13:53 <_miek> ah.. 16:13:53 _miek: yes 16:13:56 !lg * 5 16:13:57 reaverb: no 16:13:58 5/4113343. huberth the Ruinous (L1 OMCj), slain by a giant cockroach on D:2 on 2006-12-04 18:07:52, with 59 points after 1387 turns and 0:07:32. 16:13:59 <_miek> !lg . t vlong=0.16-ba 16:13:59 no, with the other bug 16:13:59 No games for _miek (t vlong=0.16-ba). 16:14:02 Oh, oops. 16:14:05 the infusion bug 16:14:15 <_miek> oh 16:14:15 !lg * t 16:14:16 55836. ew the Ruffian (L4 GhCK of Xom), slain by an orc wizard (a +0 dagger) on D:3 on 2015-03-22 21:14:12, with 104 points after 1811 turns and 0:00:13. 16:14:21 <_miek> !lg . t vlong=0.16-b1 16:14:22 No games for _miek (t vlong=0.16-b1). 16:14:22 (also, i think this has made infusion do nothing at all???) 16:14:28 good sk nerf 16:14:35 wheals: really? 16:14:47 since calc_damage reset damage_done 16:15:06 !kw meleebug016 vlong>=0.16-b1-18-g9590bb8 vlong<0.16.0-18-g484a79e 16:15:07 Defined keyword: meleebug016 => vlong>=0.16-b1-18-g9590bb8 vlong<0.16.0-18-g484a79e 16:15:16 !lg * meleebug016 16:15:17 55696. edsrzf the Unseen (L16 OpWr of Okawaru), slain by an apocalypse crab on Abyss:1 on 2015-03-22 21:10:05, with 122265 points after 39784 turns and 4:08:49. 16:15:24 wheals: you mean, while things were bugged? or right now 16:15:25 !won * !boring 16:15:31 while things were bugged 16:15:34 <_miek> !lg . meleebug016 16:15:34 oh okay 16:15:34 13. miek the Carver (L9 FoAK of Lugonu), slain by a goliath beetle on D:6 on 2015-03-21 20:40:04, with 1388 points after 7277 turns and 0:15:36. 16:15:41 !lg * meleebug016 !boring / won 16:15:41 also, doh, that was a bad query 16:15:41 1289/52490 games for * (meleebug016 !boring): N=1289/52490 (2.46%) 16:15:51 <_miek> !lg . meleebug016 won 16:15:51 * (!boring) has won 27786 times in 3438761 games (0.81%): 939xMiFi 844xMiBe 573xGrFi 555xSpEn 374xDEFE 340xHOFi 292xMiGl 286xGrBe 258xDECj 256xMDFi 252xCeHu 236xKoBe 220xTrMo 211xDDBe 209xDsBe 209xHOBe 208xDsFi 204xMfGl 197xGrEE 195xOgBe 193xDDNe 192xDDEE 182xOgHu 178xFoFi 178xHOPr 172xDEWz 159xDDFi 158xHOGl 156xDsGl 155xDrTm 150xMfIE 149xVpEn 141xDsMo 127xVSBe 125xHEWz 123xGrGl 120xHaBe 114xMiMo ... 16:15:51 3. miek the Champion of Chaos (L27 DDBe of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-17 08:27:53, with 15360014 points after 102475 turns and 9:08:45. 16:15:52 !kw meleebug016 16:15:53 Keyword: meleebug016 => vlong>=0.16-b1-18-g9590bb8 vlong<0.16.0-18-g484a79e 16:15:59 <_miek> dammit lol 16:16:37 that query is not foolproof because a game might be bugged for 99% of it and then be updated with the bugfix 16:16:53 yeah 16:16:57 hrm, start? 16:16:59 !lg . meleebug016 16:17:00 19. mauris the Grasshopper (L1 FoWr), hit from afar by a cyclops (large rock) on D:15 (minivault_8) on 2015-03-21 23:26:16, with 0 points after 213 turns and 0:00:41. 16:17:05 oh no 16:17:16 !lg . !meleebug016 16:17:17 2738. mauris the Spry (L16 FeBe of Trog), demolished by a skeletal warrior (a +4 trident of flaming) on Vaults:1 (dpeg_vaults_waves) on 2015-03-22 17:36:29, with 123489 points after 41574 turns and 1:43:30. 16:17:32 ok, that explains 16:17:38 elliptic: is there a way to make a better query? 16:17:47 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:47 ??epic_bugs[$ 16:17:47 epic bugs[24/24]: The git commit e0bdd66 roughly doubled player melee damage. This was not noticed until around halfway through the 0.16 tournament. 16:17:49 johnstein: not really 16:17:53 !lg * !boring !meleebug016 / won 16:17:54 !lg * !boring meleebug016 / won 16:17:57 <3 16:17:58 26497/3386297 games for * (!boring !meleebug016): N=26497/3386297 (0.78%) 16:17:58 1289/52490 games for * (!boring meleebug016): N=1289/52490 (2.46%) 16:18:06 johnstein: can go by start time but different servers fixed the bug at different times 16:18:19 !kw meleebug vlong>=0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66 vlong<0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 16:18:20 Defined keyword: meleebug => vlong>=0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66 vlong<0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 16:18:22 tstats should kinda show it when you plot the stats vs time 16:18:32 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:18:33 !lg * meleebug 16:18:33 11238. NovaCasa the Phalangite (L22 FoSk of Cheibriados), mangled by a vault guard (a +0 great sword) (kmap: vaults_vault) on Vaults:4 on 2015-03-22 20:54:20, with 318086 points after 19101 turns and 4:30:05. 16:18:39 !lg * meleebug !boring / won 16:18:39 247/10094 games for * (meleebug !boring): N=247/10094 (2.45%) 16:18:43 !lg * meleebug x=src 16:18:44 11238. [src=cwz] NovaCasa the Phalangite (L22 FoSk of Cheibriados), mangled by a vault guard (a +0 great sword) (kmap: vaults_vault) on Vaults:4 on 2015-03-22 20:54:20, with 318086 points after 19101 turns and 4:30:05. 16:18:54 !lg * !meleebug !meleebug016 recent !boring / won 16:18:58 9064/855342 games for * (!meleebug !meleebug016 recent !boring): N=9064/855342 (1.06%) 16:19:19 would be a bit muddle near this time. but by the end the sheer number of non-bugged games might be enough to at least get a good read on the winrate 16:19:23 I guess it's kind of neat that 2x player damage was not far from 2x winrate 16:19:27 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 16:19:41 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:41 gammafunk: it was like 2.5x winrate compared with last tourney 16:19:52 I still think randarts are better an are having a small effect 16:19:53 but I have no solid data 16:20:05 !lg * !boring !meleebug016 / won 16:20:07 !lg * !boring meleebug016 / won 16:20:09 26497/3386321 games for * (!boring !meleebug016): N=26497/3386321 (0.78%) 16:20:10 1289/52490 games for * (!boring meleebug016): N=1289/52490 (2.46%) 16:20:25 I doubt andarts matter because finding them early game is pretty rare? 16:20:29 s/and/rand/ 16:20:30 I doubt the average player's artefacts are any better this tourney 16:21:49 reaverb: well, changes later on also can affect winrate for most players 16:21:53 wheals: use !meleebug and !meleebug016 probably 16:22:21 !kw recent 16:22:22 Keyword: recent => cv>=0.14 16:22:30 !kw current 16:22:30 Keyword: current => cv>=0.15 16:22:39 elliptic: Hmm. 16:22:40 gammafunk: I usually increment those at the end of tourney 16:22:45 yeah, ok 16:23:55 !kw meleebug 16:23:56 Keyword: meleebug => vlong>=0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66 vlong<0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 16:23:59 !kw meleebug016 16:24:00 Keyword: meleebug016 => vlong>=0.16-b1-18-g9590bb8 vlong<0.16.0-18-g484a79e 16:24:04 aha 16:24:57 !kw meleebugtrunk vlong>=0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66 vlong<0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 16:24:58 Defined keyword: meleebugtrunk => vlong>=0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66 vlong<0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 16:25:10 !kw meleebug meleebug016|meleebugtrunk 16:25:11 Defined keyword: meleebug => meleebug016|meleebugtrunk 16:25:16 I forget whether that works 16:25:21 !lg * meleebug s=cv 16:25:22 66935 games for * (meleebug): 51333x 0.16, 11239x 0.17-a, 4363x 0.16-a 16:25:24 good 16:25:25 cool 16:26:08 !lg * meleebug !boring recent / won 16:26:10 1536/62585 games for * (meleebug !boring recent): N=1536/62585 (2.45%) 16:26:13 !lg * !meleebug !boring recent / won 16:26:17 9064/855421 games for * (!meleebug !boring recent): N=9064/855421 (1.06%) 16:26:49 !lg * meleebug !@bot !boring recent / won 16:26:51 i guess duplication made it into 0.16 after all, despite marvinpa's best efforts 16:26:51 1520/41316 games for * (meleebug !@bot !boring recent): N=1520/41316 (3.68%) 16:26:53 gammafunk: ^ 16:26:59 haha 16:27:00 ew/gw lower winrate a lot 16:27:14 !lg * !meleebug !@bot !boring recent / won 16:27:19 9048/839371 games for * (!meleebug !@bot !boring recent): N=9048/839371 (1.08%) 16:27:40 gammafunk: winrates are always higher during tourney 16:27:41 I guess they don't do much over so many games 16:27:43 !won qw meleebug tall 16:27:44 qw (meleebug tall) has won 6 times in 58 games (10.34%): 1xDDBe 1xDDGl 1xGrBe 1xHOBe 1xMiBe 1xNaBe 16:27:45 !won qw !meleebug tall 16:27:46 qw (!meleebug tall) has won 7 times in 859 games (0.81%): 5xGrBe 1xDDBe 1xMiBe 16:27:52 good *8 16:28:00 er 16:28:02 *10 16:28:06 wheals: to be fair qw hasn't taken all tourneys equally seriously! 16:28:13 !lg qw !meleebug tall s=char 16:28:14 859 games for qw (!meleebug tall): 648x GrBe, 66x MiBe, 36x MiCK, 33x DDBe, 18x DDTm, 14x MiGl, 13x DDGl, 9x MiSk, 6x HOBe, 6x DEBe, 2x DDDK, 2x TrEn, 2x DDFi, TeBe, TrMo, DDAK, TrFi 16:28:15 true 16:28:30 !won bot !meleebug 16:28:31 bot (!meleebug) has won 22 times in 24388 games (0.09%): 9xGrBe 5xDDBe 5xHOBe 2xMiBe 1xFeBe 16:28:35 !hs * short tall 16:28:37 2132. Maitreya the Blackguard (L12 SpEn of Okawaru), blasted by an oklob plant (splash of acid) on Lair:3 on 2009-08-07 16:51:23, with 16414 points after 17494 turns and 364d+20:37:52. 16:28:38 I knew it couldn't *really* win NaBe 16:28:44 minmay gets the last laugh again! 16:28:45 minmay: it's won it offline :P 16:28:47 qw better not be getting distracted, playing other roguelikes behind our backs! 16:29:03 gammafunk: qw has already gotten fifteen poschengband wins i hear 16:29:33 !hs * short 16:29:34 8678. Maitreya the Blackguard (L12 SpEn of Okawaru), blasted by an oklob plant (splash of acid) on Lair:3 on 2009-08-07 16:51:23, with 16414 points after 17494 turns and 364d+20:37:52. 16:29:43 !lg * short s=turn 16:29:43 8678 games for * (short): 4207x 0, 3219x 1, 36x 15, 35x 18, 33x 22, 32x 19, 30x 12, 30x 14, 29x 24, 28x 16, 26x 30, 25x 26, 24x 20, 23x 31, 22x 13, 22x 21, 22x 40, 21x 25, 21x 28, 20x 41, 20x 9, 20x 10, 20x 17, 19x 23, 19x 37, 19x 32, 18x 53, 18x 39, 17x 27, 17x 42, 16x 45, 16x 29, 16x 60, 15x 34, 15x 48, 14x 36, 14x 43, 14x 35, 13x 38, 13x 11, 13x 49, 13x 33, 13x 63, 11x 54, 10x 59, 10x 74, 10x 6... 16:30:16 looks like a lot of games have bogus durs 16:30:30 !kw short 16:30:31 Keyword: short => dur<1 16:30:39 !lg * short s=dur 16:30:39 8678 games for * (short): 8674x 0:00:00, 364d+20:37:52, 364d+17:54:30, 364d+17:02:09, 364d+17:39:00 16:30:44 !lg * short recent s=turn 16:30:45 1289 games for * (short recent): 49x 0, 36x 15, 35x 18, 33x 22, 32x 19, 30x 12, 30x 14, 29x 24, 28x 16, 25x 30, 25x 26, 24x 20, 23x 31, 22x 40, 22x 21, 22x 13, 21x 25, 21x 28, 20x 9, 20x 41, 19x 37, 19x 32, 19x 17, 19x 10, 19x 23, 18x 53, 18x 39, 17x 27, 17x 42, 16x 29, 16x 60, 16x 45, 15x 34, 15x 48, 14x 43, 14x 36, 14x 35, 13x 49, 13x 33, 13x 38, 13x 63, 13x 11, 11x 54, 10x 64, 10x 59, 10x 74, 1... 16:31:06 !lg * short current !@bot s=turn 16:31:06 49 games for * (short current !@bot): 49x 0 16:31:13 !lg * short current s=turn 16:31:14 1285 games for * (short current): 49x 0, 36x 15, 35x 18, 33x 22, 32x 19, 30x 12, 30x 14, 29x 24, 28x 16, 25x 26, 25x 30, 24x 20, 23x 31, 22x 21, 22x 40, 22x 13, 21x 28, 21x 25, 20x 9, 20x 41, 19x 17, 19x 23, 19x 32, 19x 10, 19x 37, 18x 39, 18x 53, 17x 27, 17x 42, 16x 29, 16x 60, 16x 45, 15x 48, 15x 34, 14x 43, 14x 35, 14x 36, 13x 49, 13x 11, 13x 63, 13x 38, 13x 33, 11x 54, 10x 46, 10x 59, 10x 64, ... 16:31:14 good 16:31:17 wheals: just bots 16:31:46 looks like just those 4 games with 364d are broken 16:31:54 huh, so if a game lasts longer than a year, dur counts as <1 16:32:06 er I guess that's not even quite a year 16:32:09 gammafunk: I don't think that's what is going on here 16:32:31 I think dur was saved as negative for those and sequell is not displaying it properly 16:32:58 !lg * dur<0 16:32:59 4. Luce the Carver (L7 MiPa of The Shining One), slain by an orc (a -1,+0 orcish flail) on D:6 on 2009-08-07 18:55:21, with 1214 points after 6615 turns and 364d+17:39:00. 16:33:02 !lg * dur<0 s=dur 16:33:03 4 games for * (dur<0): 364d+17:02:09, 364d+17:39:00, 364d+17:54:30, 364d+20:37:52 16:33:14 maybe redefine that kw 16:33:15 !lg * dur=-12128 16:33:16 1. Maitreya the Blackguard (L12 SpEn of Okawaru), blasted by an oklob plant (splash of acid) on Lair:3 on 2009-08-07 16:51:23, with 16414 points after 17494 turns and 364d+20:37:52. 16:33:20 -!- stanzwecha is now known as stanzill 16:33:21 ^ 16:33:39 yeah they all have dur<0 16:33:42 gammafunk: I don't know why that kw exists in the first place 16:33:56 because of tall 16:34:07 oh 16:34:07 it's a joke, yes 16:34:16 !kw short dur=0 16:34:17 Defined keyword: short => dur=0 16:34:21 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 16:34:38 !lg * dur<0 s=src,file 16:34:38 4 games for * (dur<0): 4x rhf (4x remote.rhf-logfile-0.5) 16:34:48 rip rhf 16:34:53 welp 16:35:20 tall is all tourneys I'm assuming? (Should probably be t-all then) 16:35:46 the tourney keywords aren't t-0.16 16:36:33 !kw t-all tall 16:36:34 Defined keyword: t-all => tall 16:36:59 .!kw s-hort short 16:38:00 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 16:38:30 wheals: did you notice the greater player damage yourself? 16:38:44 or was it mostly players talking to you or discussion you saw on ##crawl 16:39:11 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:22 both 16:39:32 i was kind of confused why i was getting !!!! with wrath of trog 16:39:53 in my defense i didn't play much crawl before the tourney and just assumed player power creep 16:40:00 but some random guy on ##crawl asked if anyone else felt like they were doing more damage and i thought "yeah, definitely" 16:40:12 so i decided to exploit cszo for some &F 16:40:14 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.1/20150305021524]] 16:40:32 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:02 03reaverb02 07* 0.17-a0-125-g34d91a1: Remove Sure Blade 10(26 minutes ago, 15 files, 8+ 72-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=34d91a1fc831 16:43:36 rip goodcomment 16:43:45 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-124-gc3c9679 (34) 16:44:15 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:25 which background tier is warper? 16:44:34 reaverb: holy shit thank you 16:44:47 reaverb: do you have any idea how painful it was to use that spell optimally 16:44:57 jeanjacques: choko, at least 16:44:58 Not really I never bothered. 16:45:12 reaverb: you cast it like 10 times in a row because the accuracy boost depends on the duration 16:45:31 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:32 it was horrible 16:45:32 ??iffy blade 16:45:32 could be sultana but you can use teleport other offensively! 16:45:32 I don't have a page labeled iffy_blade in my learndb. 16:48:36 ??sure bleed 16:48:37 I don't have a page labeled sure_bleed in my learndb. 16:49:41 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 16:53:23 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:45 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:55:29 my only question is what are the "Tier-1" backgrounds 16:55:46 the good ones 16:56:08 Be, IE 16:56:17 gammafunk: brimstone, ice, shadow, sentinel 16:56:21 I don't know who added petrification to the dis hell effects but you're not funny. 16:56:42 didn't it use to be just para 16:57:01 !lg bloax 16:57:02 1399. BLOAX the Ruffian (L5 MiFi), slain by Crazy Yiuf (a +3 quarterstaff of chaos) on D:4 (uniq_crazy_yiuf_cottage) on 2015-03-22 19:02:19, with 251 points after 2749 turns and 0:02:48. 16:57:08 !lg bloax br=dis 16:57:09 1. Bloax the Executioner (L27 MiFi of Cheibriados), slain by an iron dragon zombie on Dis:7 (dis_hangedman) on 2013-11-03 23:48:19, with 842631 points after 34302 turns and 5:51:36. 16:57:10 well, I wrapped up my hugl of zin with 13 runes 16:57:14 10 turn paralysis was a hell effect forever, yeah 16:57:20 my first 15 runer will be on a legit build after all :o 16:57:44 @??iron dragon zombie 16:57:44 iron dragon zombie (07Z) | Spd: 6 | HD: 18 | HP: 137-171 | AC/EV: 18/1 | Dam: 21, 2109(claw), 21 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(24), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 580 | Sz: Giant | Int: plant. 16:57:46 good speed 16:57:49 @??goliath beetle 16:57:49 goliath beetle (02B) | Spd: 5 | HD: 5 | HP: 40-60 | AC/EV: 10/3 | Dam: 30 | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 48 | Sz: Medium | Int: insect. 16:58:05 chei_reasons?? 16:58:06 You want ridiculously good stats and abilities, even if that means dying to the first yaktaur pack you see if you don't follow the #1 {Rule_of_Chei}. 16:58:18 ??rule of chei 16:58:18 Rule of Chei[1/5]: Training dodging is very important. Like, very, very important. Much more important than invocations or whatever other crazy things you could waste the experience on. 16:58:29 who wrote this blasphemy 16:58:52 training dodging important? wow chei *is* different 16:59:01 !learn e chei_reasons[1] s/_/ /g 16:59:01 chei reasons[1/1]: see {cheibriados reasons} 16:59:06 !learn e cheibriados_reasons[1] s/_/ /g 16:59:06 reasons[1/5]: You want ridiculously good stats and abilities, even if that means dying to the first yaktaur pack you see if you don't follow the #1 {Rule of Chei}. 16:59:16 ??rule of deen 16:59:16 I don't have a page labeled rule_of_deen in my learndb. 16:59:22 :( 16:59:27 !lg deenrobin 16:59:28 2. deenrobin the Bewitcher (L16 DEEn of Sif Muna), mangled by a wolf spider on Spider:5 on 2015-03-05 02:24:02, with 133622 points after 62940 turns and 5:25:07. 16:59:30 lol 16:59:55 ??deenrobin 16:59:55 deenrobin[1/1]: Follow this: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Berder%27s_Deep_Elf_Enchanter_of_Sif_Muna_guide Password: robin 17:00:18 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:43 !rng rule_of_law rule_of_chei 17:00:43 The RNG chooses: rule_of_chei. 17:01:15 What holiness is an eye of draining? 17:01:42 eye of draining (15G) | Spd: 5 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 3/1 | see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 124 | Sp: draining gaze [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 17:01:42 %??eye of draining 17:01:45 living 17:02:16 all G/Js are, what's your point? 17:02:25 except death ooze i gues 17:02:25 s 17:06:41 well, I'm famous in south korea as well as japan: http://nethack.byus.net/gnu4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board&wr_id=103225 17:06:58 you can see me there in chat, yet despite all my fame, I can't reach hong 17:08:09 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:29 <|amethyst> re the fix I screwed up, I think the correct fix would be to s/damage_done/damage/ in attack::calc_damage (declaring it the first time), then reapply the reverted commit 17:12:36 or just use potential_damage still 17:12:51 question is, does anything depend on the side effect? (i sure hope not :P) 17:13:14 <|amethyst> it seems not 17:13:19 <|amethyst> there are three calls 17:13:36 <|amethyst> 1. melee_attack::calc_damage does return attack::calc_damage(); 17:13:53 <|amethyst> 2. melee_attack::handle_phase_hit does damage_done = calc_damage() 17:14:10 <|amethyst> 3. ranged_attack::handle_phase_hit does damage_done = calc_damage() 17:14:31 hehe 17:14:35 <|amethyst> if anything does depend on the side-effect, it would mean monsters do no damage 17:14:48 <|amethyst> since the monster case of attack::calc_damage doesn't set damage_done 17:15:25 it could be in yet another is_player branch 17:15:33 so many... 17:16:18 35 is attack.cc, and another 9 is_monster 17:17:03 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:17:17 <|amethyst> don't forget melee_attack.cc and ranged_attack.cc :) 17:18:20 * wheals feels momentarily object-disoriented. 17:18:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:23 <|amethyst> Maybe 0.17 should rewrite attack code 17:18:31 <|amethyst> not just refactor, but rewrite completely 17:18:35 unify monster and player 17:18:42 !kw meleebug016 17:18:43 Keyword: meleebug016 => vlong>=0.16-b1-18-g9590bb8 vlong<0.16.0-18-g484a79e 17:18:44 does this tie into "remove players" 17:18:59 <|amethyst> if we remove players then we can have nethack-style polymorph 17:19:18 <|amethyst> giant newt form 17:19:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:29 class player : monster { 17:19:53 <|amethyst> someday I will have a win that actually counts :/ 17:21:04 alternatively, 17:21:08 monster you; 17:21:24 |amethyst: it half-counts! 17:21:27 <|amethyst> // are the real 17:21:43 mm, Grunt would love it 17:23:02 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:08 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:28 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:19 <|amethyst> should we release 0.16.1 in the middle of the tournament? 17:26:20 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:34 <|amethyst> fyrechild on reddit asks "Is there any way to fix it in the offline version? I've had the good luck on a current run to find a Singing Sword and getting the chance to sacrifice stealth to Ru as a GrFi, and want to win or lose fairly." 17:27:44 |amethyst: hrm, I guess we could, if we can get geekosaur to make binaries 17:28:04 this time I even know how to sign them properly the first time :p 17:28:05 I wanded to rebuild the debs anyhow to just not use lto and make them from ubuntu trusty 17:28:13 and windows is no problem 17:28:21 <|amethyst> oh, right, wasn't there a dependency problem? 17:28:32 yes, sadly libc++ or some such 17:28:37 <|amethyst> ah 17:28:56 <|amethyst> yeah, makes sense to build on as old a distro as possible 17:29:37 can't go all the way back to debian stable as no libsdl2-image 17:30:22 and I'm not confident enough to try to add in libsdl2-image as it has dependencies also not in stable 17:30:33 or one at least 17:30:53 <|amethyst> yeah 17:30:54 <|amethyst> hm 17:31:11 <|amethyst> and I guess it would be a real pain to make the console package on debian and the tiles package on ubuntu 17:31:15 <|amethyst> since it's just one source package 17:32:19 I thik that would actually work since I can build both and just upload the console one from stable and the tiles one from ubuntu, and the common packages don't have weird depends or anything 17:32:27 <|amethyst> hm 17:33:21 but it's also kind of confusing should anyone try to install tiles from stable, I guess 17:33:31 <|amethyst> yeah 17:34:03 <|amethyst> what about building in debian testing? 17:34:10 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:16 <|amethyst> or I guess that would still be too new a libstdc++ for old ubuntu? 17:34:29 I think it would be yeah, I'd have to double check 17:34:33 debiant testing is pretty new 17:34:54 I think it's stuff is newer than my ubunut utopic 17:34:56 *ubuntu 17:35:00 and *its 17:35:30 <|amethyst> yeah, jessie does seem to have 4.9 17:36:06 <|amethyst> as default I mean 17:36:08 <|amethyst> hm 17:37:16 -!- Byzantium_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:37:18 <|amethyst> could you force using g++-4.8 in the chroot? or do we use libraries whose debian version depends on libstdc++-4.9 anyway? 17:37:39 let me see... 17:38:14 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 17:38:58 <|amethyst> (remember that just redirecting the g++ link isn't enough; because of our makefile you'd also have to change the -g++ link too 17:39:01 <|amethyst> ) 17:39:13 -!- Kolbur has left ##crawl-dev 17:41:18 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:19 libc6 (>= 2.14), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), liblua5.1-0, libncursesw5 (>= 5.6+20080119), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.5.9), libstdc++6 (>= 4.9), libtinfo5, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), crawl-common (= 2:0.16.0-1) 17:41:34 those are the depedns of the console package 17:41:39 <|amethyst> oh, none of those are even C++ anyway 17:41:47 <|amethyst> except libstdc++6 of course 17:42:18 libc6 (>= 2.14), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libgl1-mesa-glx | libgl1, libglu1-mesa | libglu1, liblua5.1-0, libsdl2-2.0-0 (>= 2.0.0), libsdl2-image-2.0-0 (>= 2.0.0), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.5.9), libstdc++6 (>= 4.9), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), crawl-common (= 2:0.16.0-1), crawl-tiles-data (= 2:0.16.0-1), fonts-dejavu-core 17:42:21 <|amethyst> probably convincing it to link against the older libstdc++6 would be a pain 17:42:24 for the tiles package 17:43:01 <|amethyst> none of those either 17:43:14 <|amethyst> hm 17:43:53 <|amethyst> we really should switch to requiring PCRE at some point 17:44:28 <|amethyst> it's sad that or Windows binary has better regexps than our Debian binary 17:44:32 <|amethyst> s/or/our/ 17:44:58 are those pcre usable in rc files (on windows)? 17:45:58 <|amethyst> yes, you can use menu += green:(? %git 2ebd401 17:46:06 07|amethyst02 * 0.12-a0-3200-g2ebd401: Actually colour uncursed items green on Unix systems. 10(2 years ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2ebd40138443 17:46:21 oh, is that usable on e.g. cszo? 17:46:27 heh. I think it uses the system pcre on OS X as well? 17:46:34 so debian's the only sad one 17:46:54 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:56 <|amethyst> yes, the servers (or at least the ones using my config) build with pcre 17:46:58 I don't have a way to make centaur without matching e.g. centaur zombie|skeleton currently 17:47:02 god, wish I'd known that 17:47:14 s/make/match/ 17:47:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: well, there are ways 17:47:44 actually I probably could in terms of the specific message 17:47:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: but you wouldn't like them 17:47:50 yeah this is force_more 17:48:19 <|amethyst> gammafunk: centaur($|[^ ]| [^zs]| z[^o]| s[^k]|....) 17:48:45 centaur [^zs].*omes into view 17:48:48 would that work? 17:48:53 -!- coffee` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:07 <|amethyst> yes, if you don't want to match simulacra 17:49:16 right 17:49:32 <|amethyst> oh, and I forgot a few cases 17:49:42 <|amethyst> like | $| [zs]$ 17:51:50 imagine trying to match deep dwarves unborn but not deep dwarves unborn zombies 17:52:18 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I think OS X would not use PCRE by default unless you were doing BUILD_ALL=y 17:52:47 <|amethyst> geekosaur: AFAIK you need to specify USE_PCRE=y to use the system PCRE 17:53:06 ah. (my local builds already do that) 17:53:10 <|amethyst> otherwise you'll be building the contrib PCRE or just using Posix EREs 17:53:38 I think 10.7 had pcre, maybe I'll include it in a rebuild 17:54:10 <|amethyst> Maybe check that before you do, but I would be kind of surprised if it did not 17:54:11 wheals: I trolled the kr tavern hopefully I'll get all the thanks http://nethack.byus.net/gnu4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board 17:54:22 <|amethyst> since pcre is pretty widely used 17:54:24 I just made a note to check the SDK, yes 17:54:25 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:54 imo just use lua patterns!! 17:55:08 I suspect it goes back pretty far, but the whole libc++/C++11 thing limits to 10.7 anyway 17:55:24 <|amethyst> gammafunk: likewise, if you wanted to build with USE_PCRE=y it might be a minor incompatibility for some unlikely user-set REs 17:55:34 |amethyst: I think releasing 0.16.1 soon (in the next few days) would be good 17:55:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: but would work pretty much anywhere since debian has had libpcre forever 17:55:53 gammafunk: maybe that "Tip" thing is like thanks! 17:56:28 |amethyst: ah, I think I can just add pcre to the package depend list and update the rules to add that to the make 17:56:32 so should be easy to include 17:56:40 wheals: join and tip me 17:56:51 aw it has a link to the korean section of the tx project 17:56:55 is that like tipping cows? 17:56:56 which is dead of course :( 17:56:57 :p 17:57:05 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 17:57:07 geekosaur: HE are not cows!!! 17:57:12 <|amethyst> yeah, libpcre3-dev goes back at least to squeeze and probably longer 17:57:21 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 17:57:22 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 17:57:23 I'll do that when I build the package, then 17:57:28 ??murray[3 17:57:29 murray[3/4]: How appropriate. You fight like a CAO. 17:57:36 just build for ubuntu trusty w/o LTO, add PCRE 17:57:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: not sure about the way you're building, but you mean "to the package build-depend list", right? 17:58:10 <|amethyst> gammafunk: actual library dependencies should be computed automatically 17:58:19 <|amethyst> s/actual/run-time/ 17:58:59 <|amethyst> I should re-learn all the debian stuff I've forgotten in the past 8 or 9 years 17:59:36 |amethyst: yes, there's a src package depend list used by the building process to figure out the base depends, and install those packages, and the downstream non-src packages (crawl and crawl-tiles) use that and add any lib depends seen as needed to satisfy those 17:59:55 the src package depend list is set manualy in debian/control 18:00:09 and debian/rules controls the actual build rules 18:00:23 so that's where I add make args etc 18:00:39 <|amethyst> okay 18:00:50 <|amethyst> so the normal situation 18:01:15 <|amethyst> oh 18:01:24 <|amethyst> I forget debian/ is in the repo now so I can just look at it :) 18:01:25 |amethyst: yeah the source/debian dir is up to date with what I use, so feel free to make fixes if you see anything wrong 18:01:28 yep 18:01:40 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:06 <|amethyst> yeah, ${shlibs:Depends} 18:02:20 <|amethyst> that was the (word?) I was forgetting 18:02:37 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:49 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:11 !lg * meleebug 18:04:12 66949. KingBobson the Nimble (L9 MiBe of Trog), slain by an orc warrior (a +0 short sword) on D:9 on 2015-03-22 22:11:28, with 2237 points after 4991 turns and 0:08:03. 18:04:18 !lg * meleebug won 18:04:19 1538. zureal the Conqueror (L27 MiBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2015-03-22 21:44:51, with 2424724 points after 68958 turns and 8:21:38. 18:05:03 <|amethyst> yay I get my own !lg keyword 18:05:18 <|amethyst> this one's much better than my first epic bug 18:05:34 <|amethyst> ??epic_bugs[octo 18:05:35 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:05:37 octopode[2/5]: For four days in 2012, octopodes had eight times the normal squeeze damage (96 instead of 12), allowing them to one-shot greater mummies (among others) with ease. Introduced, and then ruined, by |amethyst; rest in peace. 18:05:37 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 18:06:07 -!- tstbtto has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:06:11 I am quite happy I've never had an epic bug! (Unless you count the Gretell thing >_>) 18:06:21 it does count 18:06:36 or wait am i thinking of the sequell thing 18:06:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:06:46 Oh yes, the Sequell thing. 18:07:05 ??reaverb[Gret 18:07:05 reaverb : Note the Gretell database is outdated. 18:07:25 ^ The time I made Sequell respond to every message with that. 18:07:32 <|amethyst> heh 18:07:39 it's the same as the Gretell thing. 18:08:37 <|amethyst> @??-version 18:08:37 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.17-a0-77-gee7a2f2 18:08:47 <|amethyst> I should try again to get chei working on cszo/dobrazupa 18:09:27 Somebody already did that! 18:09:42 <|amethyst> ? 18:09:43 https://lookupdb.guy.ht/ 18:09:53 It's the same as the old monster bots. 18:09:58 <|amethyst> right, but that doesn't help in IRC 18:09:58 w/learndb information too. 18:10:16 <|amethyst> also, I want to move my crawl stuff off plain s-z.org in general 18:10:16 Oh, oops, sorry wrong thing >_> 18:10:19 -!- CacoS has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:10:32 <|amethyst> since that's a very loaded machine with actual paying clients, which I am not 18:10:47 Ah. 18:10:49 <|amethyst> whereas cszo is dedicated 18:10:52 -!- tabstorm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:56 <|amethyst> and I do pay for it :) 18:12:43 morning, ok 18:12:50 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:13:42 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:14:01 this update isn't tagged 0.16.1? 18:14:46 will it be given a version? 18:15:41 <|amethyst> it will show up as 0.16.0-ghash in ?V 18:15:49 <|amethyst> we will probably tag 0.16.1 soon though 18:16:45 <|amethyst> !crashlog trunk 18:16:46 No milestones for trunk (crash). 18:16:50 -!- Byzantium_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:16:51 <|amethyst> !crashlog * trunk 18:16:52 8547. gogigo, XL16 OgBe, T:23137 (milestone): http://webzook.net:82/morgue/trunk/gogigo/crash-gogigo-20150322-163822.txt 18:16:54 <|amethyst> !crashlog * trunk -2 18:16:54 8546/8547. kuckingfunt, XL10 MiBe, T:8986 (milestone): http://webzook.net:82/morgue/trunk/kuckingfunt/crash-kuckingfunt-20150322-163748.txt 18:16:57 <|amethyst> err 18:17:05 <|amethyst> !lm * trunk crash 18:17:05 8547. [2015-03-22 16:38:22] gogigo the Warrior (L16 OgBe of Trog) (Depths:1) 18:17:08 <|amethyst> !lm * trunk crash -2 18:17:08 8546/8547. [2015-03-22 16:37:48] kuckingfunt the Cleaver (L10 MiBe of Trog) (D:8) 18:17:09 <|amethyst> !lm * trunk crash -3 18:17:10 8545/8547. [2015-03-22 14:26:51] gogigo the Warrior (L14 OgBe of Trog) (Lair:1) 18:17:12 <|amethyst> !lm * trunk crash -4 18:17:13 8544/8547. [2015-03-22 10:55:31] muxacarin the Chopper (L1 MiBe of Trog) (D:1) 18:17:18 <|amethyst> hm 18:17:36 <|amethyst> !lm * trunk crash noun~~. 18:18:03 dang, I assumed every rebuild of a stable branch would only occur with a tag 18:18:14 8547. [2015-03-22 16:38:22] gogigo the Warrior (L16 OgBe of Trog) (Depths:1) 18:18:21 to prevent rebuilds from occurring during time when commits were being pushed before a tag 18:18:22 <|amethyst> CSZO etc update stable branches nightly 18:18:39 <|amethyst> so that bugfixes go in immediately 18:18:55 -!- Wehk has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:13 <|amethyst> usually we've released 0.x.1 after the tournament 18:19:25 <|amethyst> this will be an exception 18:19:57 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:20:07 ah ok 18:21:13 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:35 -!- Greyyy has quit [] 18:26:10 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:27:34 <|amethyst> !lm * trunk crash noun~~.. 18:27:49 6379. [2015-03-21 21:43:29] sanka the Fighter (L13 MuWn of Nemelex Xobeh) ASSERT(!cell is solid(ctarget)) in 'cloud.cc' at line 742 failed on turn 18294. (Volcano) 18:28:14 <|amethyst> oh, right, volcano collapsing on a fire elemental or something like that 18:30:38 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 18:35:45 oh, so we're set on 0.16.1 during the tournament? 18:36:25 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-125-g34d91a1 (34) 18:37:31 gammafunk: Yeah. 18:37:52 gammafunk: Are you still going to write the wordpress post on the double damage bug or can anybody pick that up? 18:37:57 gammafunk: I haven't heard any reason to wait 18:38:23 reaverb: I should write it because I never get to write those and my debut is going to knock people's socks off 18:38:30 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:37 gammafunk: Cool :D 18:38:46 ok, do we have any commits that need to go in pre-0.16.1? 18:39:01 like anything to fix that SW crash ? 18:40:43 how does dcss get the name '0.16.0-ghash'? 18:40:58 03reaverb02 07* 0.17-a0-126-g801050c: Elaborate on some comments. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=801050c8a584 18:40:58 03reaverb02 07* 0.17-a0-127-g982c89f: Don't give Kiku and Trog piety for killing abominations 10(3 months ago, 2 files, 0+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=982c89fffd1c 18:41:03 chequers: What do you mean by that? 18:41:26 chequers: there's git describe 18:41:31 if you want to do that for any ref 18:41:45 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:07 <|amethyst> yeah, it uses git describe 18:42:09 <|amethyst> at build time 18:42:13 aha 18:42:21 <|amethyst> !source Makefile:1180 18:42:21 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/Makefile;hb=HEAD#l1180 18:42:25 I was trying name-rev, and in this situation it just returns the branch name 18:43:17 -!- CcS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:58 is there a known reason for cdos repeated downtimes? 18:49:18 <|amethyst> not exactly 18:49:31 <|amethyst> AIUI the host wants to run a hardware check 18:49:33 Napkin found a hardware problem. 18:49:36 IIRC. 18:49:37 <|amethyst> but that will be a day of downtime 18:49:48 <|amethyst> so Napkin wanted to put it off until after the tournament 18:49:56 Oh great accident ping, sorry D: 18:50:03 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:05 <|amethyst> unless something happened in the two or three days I've been out of town 18:50:26 " supposedly a power cable was blocking the cpu fan... let's see if CDO runs longer now" 18:50:31 <|amethyst> ah 18:50:36 That was earlier today. 18:50:47 <|amethyst> okay, more up to date info than I had 18:50:54 when in doubt blame ew 18:51:10 !gamesby ew t 18:51:10 ew (t) has played 20641 games, between 2015-03-16 00:15:21 and 2015-03-22 22:17:17, won 0, high score 20582, total score 2664151, total turns 25182976, play-time/day 12:42:08, total time 3d+16:54:57. 18:51:11 wow 18:51:24 its a neverending ghost scum machine 18:51:28 yes i was going to say 18:51:30 ghosts galore 18:51:35 !lg ew t max=xl 18:51:36 20641. ew the Grappler (L12 TrCK of Xom), mangled by a manticore on D:13 on 2015-03-16 05:02:36, with 16583 points after 11997 turns and 0:06:21. 18:51:37 !gkills ew 18:51:38 2690 kills by ew's ghost: 2637x ew, 12x Svalbardcaretaker, 5x jeanjacques, 4x hermitwo, 3x iafm, 3x firemonkey, 3x Utis, 3x Gandelf, 2x Kellhus, 2x dpeg, 2x wontolla, 2x soul, 2x Sebi, 2x sanka, 2x vogonpoet, Xenophon, Rambo, Soadreqm, azzkikr, Fungee, TAS2012 18:52:33 !gamesby qw t 18:52:34 qw (t) has played 58 games, between 2015-03-13 22:03:17 and 2015-03-20 01:08:25, won 6 (10.3%), high score 2059771, total score 18387875, total turns 1422138, play-time/day 2:34:03, total time 20:32:25. 18:52:43 !lg bots t s=name 18:52:44 No games for bots (t). 18:52:47 !lg bot t s=name 18:52:48 22212 games for bot (t): 20641x ew, 1506x gw, 58x qw, 7x rw 18:53:03 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:18 does ew have a proper throttle at least? 18:53:21 &rc ew 18:53:23 http://crawl.develz.org/configs/0.16/ew.rc 18:54:20 -!- chequers has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:54:42 crawl.delay(20) 18:54:53 doesn't qw use 100 18:56:23 probably 18:56:26 %git e0bdd66d8 18:56:26 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-22-ge0bdd66: Fix a crash with cleaving + infusion vs spectral weapons. 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 14+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0bdd66d849c 18:56:35 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:57:31 tbf cszo is more than 5 times as busy as cdo 18:57:42 <|amethyst> crawl-wise 18:57:58 <|amethyst> CDO runs on a computer that does more than just crawl 18:58:50 |amethyst: I think I'm going to apply the fix you mention, namely declare a local variable for damage instead of using the member variable simultaneously with reapplying your fix 18:59:00 <|amethyst> cool 18:59:13 <|amethyst> test that first :) 18:59:17 I'll double-check re the calls to calc_damage, but as you say doesn't seem it will cause a problem 18:59:20 yeah I will fsim 18:59:59 <|amethyst> I should go through and mark what variables are set where 19:00:45 <|amethyst> s/variables/members/ 19:01:11 i was going to say, marking all the variables sounds a bit hard :P 19:01:29 might make sense to put lists in the doxygen comments (if there were any...) 19:01:34 <|amethyst> all the members doesn't sound a lot better :) 19:02:10 in fact, doxygen probably would have prevented this bug!! (as would rewriting crawl in haskell, of course) 19:02:31 not sure whether documenting all functions would be harder than the latter :P 19:03:03 <|amethyst> doxygen would have only helped if the documentation was up-to-date and correct 19:03:35 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:03:44 <|amethyst> and if you're willing to assume that, you might as well assume the code is correct too :) 19:03:59 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:08 <|amethyst> But yeah, "might set damage_done" would have helped :) 19:04:39 maybe_set_damage_done(); 19:04:55 <|amethyst> calc_damage_haha_fooled_you 19:05:14 <|amethyst> I mean, I knew it had side-effects, that was the reason for the commit in the first place 19:05:15 The weird thing was that it was original damage_done=calc_damage() 19:05:22 when it could have just been calc_damage() 19:05:24 The code chuckles and vanishes in a puff of smoke! 19:05:29 <|amethyst> reaverb: not really 19:05:34 <|amethyst> reaverb: then monsters wouldn't do damage 19:05:41 another good player buff 19:05:44 Oh, oops. 19:05:46 <|amethyst> reaverb: calc_damage only sets damage_done in the player path :( 19:05:52 <|amethyst> that's why I missed it 19:06:11 I don't get why crawlcode has this innate desire to make code do more than one thing. 19:06:18 gammafunk: my opinion is that damage should be displayed, BUT only using 'damage words'; 'thump, 'bludgeon', 'hammer like a gong', etc 19:06:18 GONNNNG! 19:06:19 I can see why you dislike this merger. 19:06:30 <|amethyst> reaverb: well, I think a merger would be good 19:06:30 heh 19:06:33 according to the mon-death header, it has "unique code" 19:06:35 <|amethyst> reaverb: it's just that it's halfway 19:06:36 i think i must agree 19:06:47 -!- aj__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:52 -!- aj__ is now known as chequers 19:06:53 |amethyst: Yeah, I think finishing the merger would be better? Hmm. 19:06:55 wheals: heh 19:06:56 <|amethyst> reaverb: it used to be two entirely separate code paths with lots of repeated stuff 19:07:05 I keep planning to refactor out parts of mon-death 19:07:12 then i look at the actual code and break into tears 19:07:14 <|amethyst> reaverb: whereas now it's the weird braided flowchart :) 19:07:18 <|amethyst> s/the/this/ 19:07:23 PleasingFungus: literally me irl 19:07:40 rip 19:07:44 PleasingFungus: I feel that way about acquirement code sometimes. 19:07:56 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:00 maybe I should do some acquirement refactos 19:08:04 how hard can it be? 19:08:15 I guess we'd need to actually decide what the goals of acquirement code are, first 19:08:44 PleasingFungus: Go look at the Acquirement code before you say that :D 19:08:47 'intended functionality', as distinct from 'insane quirks of the current implementation' 19:08:50 reaverb: do I have to? 19:08:52 * wheals wonders what's up with all these beam.aux_source.clear(); when it was never set 19:08:53 I'd really rather not. 19:09:09 Hehe. 19:11:11 -!- Menche is now known as PileOfAsh 19:12:22 yeah, that's really the main blocker to refactoring acquirement 19:12:29 <|amethyst> hm 19:12:56 <|amethyst> make monster death be a fineff 19:13:15 <|amethyst> what could go wrong? 19:13:31 just need to add finnereffs 19:14:08 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:14:45 <|amethyst> hm, might help if they were a queue instead of a stack 19:15:13 <|amethyst> (a vector being used as a stack) 19:15:25 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:36 PleasingFungus: my impression is that there are 3 possibilities for acquirement: spoilery and 99% no-brainer (current design), not spoilery and 100% no-brainer (crawl light), wish 19:16:08 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:10 <|amethyst> Also, I think it would be nice if we had a class that made a fineff out of an arbitrary lambda or function (of the correct signature of course), with no merging or anything 19:16:23 <|amethyst> then we could keep fineff code nearer the place it is used 19:17:14 minmay: there's the 4.1 solution which is to make it awful no matter what you do 19:17:29 <|amethyst> that would fall under b I think 19:17:31 that falls into b 19:17:32 yes 19:17:59 fair enough 19:18:22 only difference is in crawl light the no-brainer is reading it and picking the best item it shows you, whereas in 4.1 the no-brainer is to get something useless and then die to poison 19:18:49 <|amethyst> ??4.1[3] 19:18:49 4.1[3/7]: what's really overpowered in 4.1 elliott: monsters 19:19:32 I guess you could remove the item choice from acquirement (since it doesn't actually introduce a decision) and make the results get better the higher level your character is, except that you would still always read it right away basically 19:19:54 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:08 <|amethyst> then you might as well replace ?acq with "acquire any", yes 19:20:28 you might as well replace it with "acquire any" in the current situation 19:20:56 is there any reason to not do that? 19:21:01 it's a terrible idea to save scrolls of acquirement and has a spoiled player ever actually had trouble deciding what acquirement would benefit their character the most? 19:21:04 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:21:06 <|amethyst> well 19:21:12 <|amethyst> right now there's more than saving 19:21:14 <|amethyst> there is a decision 19:21:23 yes, a no-brainer decision 19:21:24 do people actually save scrolls of acquirement now? 19:21:28 <|amethyst> which is spoily, yes, and has only a few good answers 19:21:40 doy: they do, but it's completely stupid of them 19:21:43 what is their reasoning? 19:21:48 doy: I have no fucking idea 19:21:50 <|amethyst> but people do stop and think about what to acquire so I wouldn't call it a no-brainer 19:21:52 hmmm 19:21:53 I think it is relatively common that there are at least 3 "reasonable" choices for acq 19:21:57 when you read it 19:22:11 and different people choose different ones and ask for advice on it and such 19:22:18 it is rather spoily though :/ 19:22:33 really? I find the current situation basically like the crawl light one where there is a clearly best option, except you need spoilers to know what it is 19:23:05 I'm aware people ask for advice about it frequently but I always assumed that was because they don't know what it does 19:23:14 <_miek> sometimes its situation dependant 19:23:18 (and without reading the code how would you) 19:23:34 re: saving acq scrolls - I think some players think (erroneously) that the code is more likely to give you an item you haven't seen 19:23:41 ... 19:23:44 but 19:23:45 it is more likely to give you an item you haven't seen 19:23:45 it is 19:23:46 so they save it until they've seen all mundane armour slots etc. 19:23:52 <_miek> usually wand is best choice, but if you haven't found many yet then your chances of getting HW/haste are reduced 19:23:56 but why don't they want those 19:23:57 in that sense 19:24:02 CanOfWorms: it does behave that way though, for wands 19:24:03 the dumb "usually mundane" thing was removed 19:24:05 it also deliberately gives you worse armour for unfilled slots, etc. 19:24:08 gammafunk: and for other items 19:24:25 yeah, not aware of the ways for other items aside from spells 19:24:27 minmay: Maybe you've just internalized more of the acquire code? What's your "algorithm" for acquirment? 19:24:35 <_miek> I still do weapon occasionally despite the fact that its usually suboptimal 19:24:38 as in, deciding what to acquire. 19:24:42 wands, spells, staves, what else? 19:24:43 reaverb: well mostly it's "wand" 19:24:52 yeah, jewellery also is biased toward things you haven't seen, i'm pretty sure 19:24:55 right 19:25:02 so basically some people wait until they've filled up all their armour slots so instead of getting that +0 helmet they get a randart/ego helmet 19:25:05 actually, i believe it isn't? 19:25:05 <|amethyst> _pick_unseen_armour 19:25:20 artefact chance is always fixed though, isn't it? 19:25:34 oh. nvm 19:25:35 <|amethyst> if I'm reading correctly 19:25:38 gammafunk: armour, weapons 19:25:44 <|amethyst> it's that plain stuff gets turned into an unfilled slot 19:25:48 it's still weird though 19:25:53 <_miek> wand > jewellery > armour > weapon 19:25:57 oh, so if I didn't like the qb I acquired, I'm less likely to get another one? 19:26:03 |amethyst: yeah, i'd be fine with burning that thing with fire :) 19:26:08 gammafunk: if it was the first qblade you saw yes 19:26:20 right, yeah 19:26:21 -!- Ququman has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:27 gammafunk: if you haven't seen a qblade its weight is multiplied by 5 19:26:49 yeah from what I've heard the armour code decides the egos first and then finalizes the type based the ego 19:26:50 gammafunk: similarly if you haven't seen a whip its weight is multiplied by 5 19:26:50 *why* is this not in the hyperbolic guide!!! 19:26:58 *based on the ego 19:27:09 <|amethyst> I think "that you haven't seen" is a reasonable thing, though 19:27:11 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:27:21 ah, no, what really got my goat was _pick_wearable_armour 19:27:21 the only acquirements that don't care about seen items are gold, food, and ammo 19:27:36 <|amethyst> It's not spoilery, and it does at least give some small reason to wait 19:27:45 ...it's not spoilery? 19:28:27 <_miek> yeah waiting for a wand could be a good idea, but then again you might get the HW anyway and it might just stop you dying 19:28:28 "stuff you haven't seen" making you wait seems like the opposite of the intent, even if it's the result 19:28:30 <|amethyst> minmay: it doesn't have to be if the description says "has a lower chance of giving you a type of item you've already seen" and that were true across the board 19:28:54 <|amethyst> wheals: true... 19:29:29 <|amethyst> though you mentioned making the item quality depend on XL 19:29:54 <|amethyst> I like that idea, not replacing type selection, but on top of it 19:30:04 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:04 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:04 -!- TMTurtle__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:19 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:30:23 <|amethyst> OTOH, maybe "use it now" is in fact better gameplay 19:30:33 i'm not really convinced that giving people an incentive to save acquirement scrolls would be a good thing 19:30:35 wheals: I disagree that it is the result 19:30:39 <|amethyst> in which case it could be a geneie instead of a scroll 19:30:45 <|amethyst> s/eie/ie/ 19:30:45 i didn't say it was the result... 19:30:58 wheals: did you mean "opposite of the result, even if it's the intent"? 19:31:11 do you know what "if" means? 19:31:12 -!- Mottikins_ is now known as FaMott 19:31:13 because if you had said that, I would agree with it 19:31:15 <|amethyst> minmay: I was referring to what CanOfWorms was saying 19:31:51 -!- gruegirl has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 19:31:59 the thing with making it be something other than "use it now" is that it's practically impossible 19:32:01 <|amethyst> it has that result at least on some players who are partially spoiled 19:32:02 see: call merchant 19:32:18 <|amethyst> even if they're not good players 19:32:20 yeah, and we'd don't really want to 19:32:34 <|amethyst> hm, that's true 19:32:50 crawl games get overwhelmingly more winnable as actions pass, so saving an acquirement scroll is a pretty terrible idea unless the incentive is overwhelming too 19:33:05 why do you think fedhas and trog are the strongest gods in the game? 19:33:25 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:28 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:31 (This is also the case in pretty much every other roguelike I've played) 19:33:42 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:48 give thte scroll an acquire hp option 19:33:58 it is in fact the case in most games, period 19:34:16 pretty much by definition 19:34:19 <|amethyst> isn't "more winnable as actions pass" kind of mathematically necessary? 19:34:23 if it could be used as a full-heal then there's a big incentive to save it 19:34:25 n1k: acquire potion, drink benemut, get robust 19:34:32 <|amethyst> assuming permadeath 19:34:43 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:34:52 fr acquire potion 19:34:57 |amethyst: not necessarily, there could be a flat 1/1000 chance of dying and a flat 1/1000 chance of winning on every turn, for example 19:35:10 |amethyst, yes but I think the more relevant part of minmay's idea is that it gets safer per turn as the game goes on 19:35:13 as he just said... 19:35:16 but it will never change in crawl, or nethack, or tome4, or etc., yes 19:35:17 er...hrm 19:35:22 <|amethyst> yeah 19:35:31 this tournament is a real problem! my server is too busy and I need to upsize it!! 19:35:33 <|amethyst> I agree that it gets safer as time goes on, and that's not necessary 19:35:39 anyone else have a problem in 0.16 and trunk where fsim melee vs just a stone giant (&f) just casues crawl to hang 19:35:42 <|amethyst> but there are psychological arguments for it 19:35:42 looking over player comments, it seems the best option is to just take gold. There shouldnt be a best option, especially something as mundane as generic wealth. It should be a real choice between all of the possibilities (after character considerations are taken). Honestly, who ever takes potion, for example? 19:35:58 this is running a webtiles build via console 19:36:05 chequers: would you say your server is taking... double requests? 19:36:16 seems to happen both 0.16 and 0.17 19:36:19 gammafunk: it always has made crawl hang, no? 19:36:21 |amethyst: I am not suggesting that crawl have a flat 1/1000 chance of dying and winning on every turn... 19:36:24 you just have to wait a while 19:36:42 <_miek> minmay: where's that from? 19:36:44 <|amethyst> minmay: right, I know.... I was assuming more in "game" than I should have mathematically 19:36:45 |amethyst: just that it is not actually mathematically necessary 19:36:48 badforum 19:36:56 wheals: no it's taking a very very long time 19:36:56 it's still running 19:37:00 long long time? 19:37:04 <|amethyst> minmay: not sure what my model of a roguelike is 19:37:10 <_miek> I think potion acquire would be very useful for specific potions: cure mut, experience, benemut 19:37:18 Adding a tactical use to acquirement like acquire HP would make it worthwhile to save it, yes 19:37:41 but it would also make it suboptimal to use it for actually acquiring items, which would be frustrating from a player perspective and silly from a design perspective 19:37:52 I don't see any reason for us to encourage players to save acq. 19:38:05 see again, call merchant and bribe branch vs. potion petition 19:38:07 acquirement trap 19:38:09 dangit who broke my crawl 19:38:13 replace scrolls of acquirement with mimics that force an acq -- damn it simmarine 19:38:14 I don't think saving acq needs to be a design goal yes 19:38:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I wasn't really being facetious when I suggested changing it from a scroll into a genie 19:38:26 PleasingFungus, I agree, I was just pointing out the theoretical possibility to introduce a mechanic which would allow such a decision 19:38:36 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: and making it activate on LOS or something 19:38:38 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:44 gonna restart 19:38:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:38:55 |amethyst: right, just like all other traps 19:38:58 -!- Gamesmaster1965 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:39:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: so there's no false decision 19:39:03 <|amethyst> indeed 19:39:06 <|amethyst> could make it a trap 19:39:09 what about other "use immediately" items, like !exp 19:39:10 PleasingFungus: someone on the forum has offered to make some player-less tiles for the frontpage that capture each branch's theme without needing to worry about character model. should I take them up on it or are you planning to do something more comprehensive? 19:39:13 is there a false decision with acq? 19:39:15 with benemut? 19:39:20 !exp is silly too, yes 19:39:21 er 19:39:24 with !exp 19:39:26 <|amethyst> benemut is different 19:39:26 doy: !exp is the worst 19:39:36 <|amethyst> because you might decide never to use it at all 19:39:41 <|amethyst> or you might decide to use it now 19:39:45 !benemut...i guess you could quaff cure mut before you quaff it 19:39:47 <|amethyst> probably you won't wait though 19:39:57 chequers: that sounds like the best solution for now? 19:40:01 minmay: yeah that's the one time when it vaguely makes sense to wait before quaffing 19:40:05 |amethyst: er, when would it ever make sense to decide that? 19:40:07 when you need to run back to some cmut lying around 19:40:14 I occasionally wait on !benemut 19:40:21 zin!! 19:40:21 i wait with benemut sometimes too yes 19:40:25 why? 19:40:27 it's pretty rare, certainly more reasonable than waiting on acq or experience though 19:40:35 usually the reasoning is i have a bad mut i want to fix first 19:40:37 maybe if I have a +150 slaying helmet and no cure mut I guess I would avoid benemut 19:40:39 <|amethyst> hm 19:41:01 <_miek> or planning to go do slime with cure mut but no rMut 19:41:10 <_miek> might as well save the benemut until after 19:41:14 maybe we need a potion of cure bad mutation d: 19:41:28 if I have a bad mut I want to fix or if I have multiple potions of cure mut already and am waiting for a potion of mut to drink first 19:41:30 btw there's a huge number of players that don't know what !exp does, because I see them saving it all the time even though it is strictly bad to do so 19:41:47 yeah, !exp is incredibly unclear about its actual mechanics 19:41:52 except like, saving it for the next xl when you need 1 more xp to reach the next xl 19:41:54 that's mostly due to how skills become really, really expensive 19:41:55 <|amethyst> yes, that should be a genie :) 19:42:02 and how it doesn't scale with that at all 19:42:18 actually it's not even mostly 19:42:21 it scales with XL which is supposed to make it scale with that 19:42:24 that is exactly why it is bad to save it 19:42:28 |amethyst: the id game......... 19:42:35 except the scaling isn't even the correct *order*, let alone correct altogether 19:42:50 I don't really have anything against genies except that they're a new complicated thing that you'd have to set up 19:42:59 so I guess I do have something against genies 19:43:24 and even if it did scale "correctly" it would STILL be useless to save it; it would have to scale faster than the skill costs so that you get more skill from quaffing it later instead of getting the same amount of skill 19:43:25 I would rather just remove !exp than add !exp genies, personally 19:43:33 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:43:39 could probably reuse a lot of mimic code, if that's an issue 19:43:46 -!- Mixolyde has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:43:50 but i'm also not convinced genies are necessary 19:43:59 poor genies :( 19:44:06 genies go home 19:44:12 <|amethyst> The staircase disappears! Welcome to level 6. 19:44:24 wouldn't you achieve the same thing as genies by just replacing acquirement scrolls with "acquire whatever" items? 19:44:26 We all know about reaverb's opinion of genies, of course. 19:44:40 minmay: no, the genie would give you the choice - I assume. 19:44:45 elliptic: !exp is basically already removed :P 19:44:51 <|amethyst> yeah, keep the choice 19:45:03 but...the choice isn't a choice, so what's the point of keeping it? 19:45:03 <|amethyst> turn !exp into training dummies or something 19:45:08 It is a choice. 19:45:11 minmay: I got two in my last game! (from lethe of course) 19:45:12 <|amethyst> it is a choice 19:45:20 it would also be nice to be able to split explicit player acquirement from floor acquirement, such that floor acquirement doesn't depend on player state 19:45:24 <_miek> aren't yak packs equivalent to !exp? :P 19:45:30 in the same way that the rest of dungeon generation doesn't 19:45:30 yeah if we removed !xp random generation i think it would probably never get noticed 19:45:43 I find it really hard to believe that ?acq is a choice for spoiled players 19:45:46 i pressed o into two experience potions in a t game 19:45:48 brutal nerf to weird zigscumming title nonsense. 19:45:48 <|amethyst> doy: that's the whole point of floor acquirement though 19:45:58 <_miek> well there are a few vaults that have experience potions where you might notice 19:45:59 i guess people would notice in zigs, yes 19:46:02 <_miek> also I guess when doing zugs 19:46:03 <_miek> zigs* 19:46:05 |amethyst: what do you mean? 19:46:13 which is why i said "random" 19:46:20 <_miek> ah.. 19:46:31 doy: i think he means otherwise you could just use |/superb_item 19:46:37 ?acq is certainly a choice at least sometime 19:46:38 <|amethyst> doy: if you didn't want the "make sure the player can use the item" behaviour you'd use good_item 19:46:49 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141207030205]] 19:46:53 -!- Spatzist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:47:14 acquirement does currently have some nice goodies that other item generation paths don't 19:47:16 i guess 19:47:20 i, uh, think 19:47:26 <|amethyst> could make the zigurine give !exp when you pick it up 19:47:31 it still seems really weird for floor items to work that way 19:47:42 |amethyst: i thought we agreed to call them zigfigs!!! 19:47:46 there are certainly a lot of cases in which wand is pretty clearly the best option but that could be addressed (and 0.16 did just make wand acq better by making haste spell a lot rarer) 19:48:01 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:15 and there are rarer cases in which weapon or armour are pretty clearly best because of how acq works (e.g. bardings for naga/centaur) 19:48:18 maybe the worst choices could get booted too 19:48:26 would anyone not-fedhas miss food acq? :P 19:48:29 whmake !xp !skill, the XL part is confusing, not the skill training part 19:48:33 using "acquire any" in normal vaults in particular seems really weird 19:48:34 besides as a good joke 19:48:56 <|amethyst> but when food acq does get used, it is quite impressive :) 19:48:59 doy: well, we don't do it much 19:49:06 <|amethyst> "wow, someone actually needed that" 19:49:16 * wheals spooks |amethyst real good! 19:49:17 but I think that there are also a lot of cases where it isn't clear between some of those options, and I've certainly used the rarer options like book or jewellery occasionally 19:49:39 <|amethyst> FR: acquire milestone 19:50:23 wheals: that's not all that relevant, in my opinion 19:50:29 I needed a food acq for my zinner 19:50:30 elliptic: is jewellery acquirement rare? 19:50:40 <|amethyst> I think it's rare for good players 19:50:42 <|amethyst> it's not rare 19:50:44 hmmm 19:50:46 doy: well, players use it far more than they should IMO :P 19:50:47 <|amethyst> I use it all the time :) 19:50:58 doy: I meant "rare for me" really 19:51:12 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:51:13 as in, probably 95% of the time I choose one of wand/armour/weapon 19:51:13 <_miek> jewellery acquirement is probably your best bet for solving that missing resist 19:51:20 yeah, i'm about 50/50 on armour/jewellery, probably mostly because i started playing before wands were as useful 19:51:21 _miek: armour acq says hi 19:51:27 should probably change that up 19:51:28 octopodes like acq jewellery 19:51:36 so do felids? 19:51:38 <|amethyst> I think having options that aren't terrible but are usually worse than the others is fine 19:51:48 <_miek> well perhaps I haven't properly checked that but its been my anecdotal experience 19:51:54 doy: jewellery acq was maybe the best back in 0.5 or so (when I started), it was certainly the generally accepted best choice around here 19:51:54 but i don't think i've ever acquired anything other than those two and maybe a weapon or two before i learned more about it 19:51:56 <|amethyst> IMHO it's good if the decision is at least in part skill-driven 19:52:03 but all the other types have been buffed a ton since then 19:52:12 it's always annoying when you want better armour but you haven't found boots or gloves or some aux slot yet 19:52:12 <|amethyst> though that is marred by the current spoileriness 19:52:18 elliptic: maybe my decision making is just all outdated then 19:52:19 (: 19:52:28 what if acquirement didn't give all the choices everytime 19:52:37 that's a cool idea 19:52:37 -!- agentgt_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:38 like a subset of choices for every read 19:52:43 <_miek> yeah that's a good idea 19:52:48 also, fr I don't think you can cancel out of acquirement prompt if you want to check your equipment, even if the scroll is known 19:53:10 I have seen this several times but I seriously wonder if fedhas polymorph shrooms is broken 19:53:16 like its a legitmate hack 19:53:20 armour acq being arguably worse if you haven't seen some armour type yet is a bug IMO 19:53:27 you can get thornhunters 19:53:34 I'm not sure whether it always worked the way it currently did 19:53:37 <|amethyst> yes, that should be fixed 19:53:37 I have a thornhunter allie 19:53:47 <|amethyst> it did, but thorn hunters didn't use to exist 19:54:01 <|amethyst> so you'd get oklobs or (once they became not zotdef-only burning bushes) 19:54:02 or whether some refactor caused it (maybe the refactor just made it clearer to read what is going on in the code) 19:54:11 <|amethyst> oh, wrong thing 19:54:37 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:54:43 yes I sort of cut in.. apologies 19:54:54 huh, allied mushrooms don't go hostile when you polymorph them? 19:55:23 I thought in general allies did 19:55:35 <|amethyst> they do 19:55:42 <|amethyst> I think you trick a monster into polying them? 19:56:10 I guess that probably works if you find a monster with a poly wand 19:56:32 (do monsters poly other monsters in any other way?) 19:56:36 -!- Guest49820 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:45 or maybe mutacloud or chaoscloud can do it, I forget how that currently works 19:56:53 agentgt_: how are you polying it? 19:57:02 tricking monsters into polying 19:58:00 <|amethyst> um 19:58:03 <|amethyst> !source mon_spell_beam 19:58:03 Can't find mon_spell_beam. 19:58:07 if I see a monster with a polywand I have a mini oragasm 19:58:07 <|amethyst> !source mons_spell_beam 19:58:08 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc;hb=HEAD#l485 19:58:24 I play fedhas a lot 19:58:34 <|amethyst> is there a reason this is setting beam.pierce for the hexes? 19:58:40 <|amethyst> and flame tongue? 19:58:49 oh, hahahah 19:58:51 because people in the tourny don't and I'm not as good as others at streaking so 19:58:59 so hail fedhas 19:59:10 elliptic: I found a pretty funny bug introduced by your set_target_skill code 19:59:20 |amethyst: that would explain why monsters sometimes hit other monsters (with the same friendliness as them) with hexes 19:59:21 also xom to fedhas 19:59:22 elliptic: I had it active, and it was triggering during fsim :/ 19:59:22 gammafunk: oh? 19:59:26 nice 19:59:39 so my fsim was freezing and the char was leveled up when I hit esc to cancel out 19:59:49 if you switch from xom to fedhas he will inevitable turn one of your shrooms into a high power allie 19:59:51 it remained leveled up after the fsim (which still reported results) 19:59:53 I guess the problem is that ready triggers during fsim? 19:59:57 yeah 19:59:58 <_miek> that's pretty funny agentgt_ 20:00:04 how does fsim even work if it goes through that code 20:00:06 I was just at a loss to what was hapening 20:00:07 I don't understand 20:00:13 <_miek> I wonder if that should be allowed since Xom is supposed to be funny 20:00:23 like surely fsim should never go through the player input code?? 20:00:32 elliptic: it does accept a cancel though 20:00:33 I think 20:00:35 and just do everything on the same turn without taking time 20:00:36 -!- PileOfAsh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:36 since I could cancel out 20:00:44 so it is reading user input I guess? 20:01:58 surely it could read user input and accept a cancel without going through that function though :P 20:02:35 tbh I'm not sure what's triggering this 20:02:43 I had a macro on 1 for ===set_target_skill 20:03:05 it seems to not be a problem if I remove that? 20:03:08 even if I set target skill 20:03:10 on t0 20:03:49 maybe I or someone can look at fsim and ready() later, but that was really driving me nuts 20:04:32 I know very little about how fsim works, but each little bit I learn about it makes me more surprised that it actually mostly works 20:04:49 yeah 20:07:46 I need to tip whoever allowed this: fake_lang=butt:10, grunt, jagerkin 20:08:05 doy: jewellery acq was maybe the best back in 0.5 or so (when I started), it was certainly the generally accepted best choice around here 20:08:13 but all the other types have been buffed a ton since then 20:08:18 I don't think book was! 20:08:33 An orc komes into viev! It butts vieldink a klub! 20:08:35 De orc priest schouts, "Butt iz our master!!! Butt de butt or die!!!" 20:08:36 _(press Y on de ability menu to konvert to Beogh) 20:08:45 minmay: that is probably true 20:09:22 |amethyst: it looks like beam.pierce (which used to be beam.is_beam) has been set for hexy spells there for a long time 20:09:46 at least since 2009 20:10:03 I don't know why though, I agree it looks dubious 20:10:18 elliptic: I didn't mean to say wand was always the best option btw, just that I've never had (or seen) a character where I would consider there to be two or more competing best options; obviously people here disagree with me so I'll drop it 20:11:01 elliptic: isn't it there so that they cast at the player's allies? 20:11:24 or through the player's allies rather 20:11:44 (not at all sure that this is why, and it's probably not necessary now) 20:11:49 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:44 possibly, yeah 20:12:53 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-128-g90bd1c5: Reapply a fix for a crash with cleaving + infusion vs spectral weapons 10(72 minutes ago, 2 files, 27+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=90bd1c500bff 20:13:06 -!- smellhound has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:30 if anyone has no problem with the above, I'll cherry-pick to 0.16 and I guess we can tag 20:14:54 I hope you've checked fsim results before/after that fix :P 20:15:08 I did, damage was only 27x higher! 20:15:12 <|amethyst> including with infusion up 20:15:18 ahhhhhh. 20:15:24 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:15:25 alright I'll test with infusion 20:15:27 <|amethyst> that wasn't working in my version 20:15:32 <|amethyst> because of the overwrite 20:15:53 I guess I can read the original commit to see what that was 20:15:58 the infusion issue 20:16:18 <|amethyst> the reason I changed the order was that the infusion thing checked AC 20:16:42 <|amethyst> which crashed if the monster had ceased to exist 20:16:56 <|amethyst> which happened because of other calc_damage side effects (waking on a failed stab) 20:17:09 <|amethyst> ceasing to exist happened because of that, I mean 20:17:43 <|amethyst> and *that* only causes the SW to cease to exist right now because behaviours are checked all over the place 20:17:49 |amethyst: so I could use axe of woe + infusion vs asterion when he has sw active to trigger this? 20:17:52 <|amethyst> which has caused several pacified monster crashes 20:18:01 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the crash? 20:18:03 yeah I guess 20:18:11 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes, but it's a pain to reproduce 20:18:31 well, you're saying that infusion damage itself is the thing I need to be checking? 20:18:51 <|amethyst> yeah, what I'm saying is to make sure you're doing more damage when infusion is up 20:18:56 alright 20:19:09 <|amethyst> because the doubling bug also meant my version didn't actually do infusion damage 20:20:14 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:39 minmay: well, i believe that book acquirement was considered the best in like 0.3 (before whenever randbooks were added) 20:20:48 -!- Chopin has quit [Client Quit] 20:20:50 so it's the same type of thing :P 20:22:30 elliptic: yeah, i noticed the fact that beam.is_beam was set there, when looking for causes for the "ogre mage banishes its friends" thing 20:23:06 i say is_beam since this was a year or so ago 20:23:08 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:23:13 i assumed "there must be a reason" 20:23:22 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:35 why would you assume "there must be a reason" with the BEAM code 20:23:44 :D 20:23:49 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:54 i said it was a year ago! 20:24:00 i'm older and wiser now 20:24:07 well, older at least 20:24:25 and don't be too sure about older 20:24:54 nicolae-: did i tell you about my time travel dreams 20:25:14 yes, two weeks from now 20:25:25 (a little time travel humor (very little))) 20:26:38 is that closing parenthesis from the past or the future 20:26:49 it's from the present 20:27:03 what you should be asking is... where's the opening parenthesis 20:27:30 oh my god 20:27:34 it's right behind me 20:27:35 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:37 oh shit 20:27:38 -!- wheals has quit [] 20:27:43 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:27:59 * nicolae- silently crosses a name off of a list 20:28:25 dang, collateral damage to a non-dev 20:28:37 who do you think you are, the united states? 20:29:14 yes. also, i hear you've got some oil reserves 20:30:47 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:30:55 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:10 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:00 serious FR: randomize the HP on uniques, orbs of fire, etc. like is done for 99% of non unique monsters 20:33:08 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:33:16 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:23 -!- DrStalker_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:33:46 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:34:22 minmay: I would do this but first we have to make hp randomization synthax actually make sense. 20:34:35 which isn't trivial. 20:34:49 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 20:35:18 I'm guessing orb of fire only has constant HP because its 30 HD screws up the HP formula? 20:35:52 No, it's just because. 20:36:51 basically the formula is HDd(set_number_A) + HD*set_number_B 20:37:05 set_number_foo being numbers in the monster "stat block" 20:37:42 I suppose making the amount of randomization actually consistent across monsters should go along with that FR 20:38:23 Ring of Teleport Control INOP 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9568 by BTA 20:38:32 looks like infusion damage is working; it has a hurt of 2 in the infusion dprf with attack damage listed as 42, and the final damage is 44 20:38:32 Except you can arbitarly add set_number_C HP to that, so some monsters just use that and set the other two numbers to zero (there is no consistency to when this done, except uniques normally have set HP). 20:38:56 not going to try to reproduce the SW crash 20:39:08 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:39:46 -!- Homard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:40:51 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:17 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:21 I guess the problem with monster HP is that it actually matters for balance quite a bit in places so you can't just pull a number out of your ass like for, say, max MP, and not have to worry about changing the game a lot 20:43:11 (assuming the goal is to maintain existing balance. I'm pretty sure existing monster HP balance is 99% ass pulls already :P) 20:44:54 I want to use this melee damage bug to argue you can just fudge balance forever and hit it with a wrench if it ever gets too out of whack. It's not like double damage games weren't *fun*. >_> 20:45:11 man, people responded to that thread I left on the korean chat board but 20:45:12 what melee bug 20:45:19 ??meleebug 20:45:19 epic bugs[24/24]: The git commit e0bdd66 roughly doubled player melee damage. This was not noticed until around halfway through the 0.16 tournament. 20:45:28 I don't know if I trust google's translation: "Somehow he forgot Huh kigal rest easy ... Yerevan friggin toilet paper on the gargoyle form punch knockout" 20:45:37 lol 20:45:41 I never noticed 20:45:49 ereshkigal maybe 20:46:00 Well yes. Nobody did for two weeks. 20:46:12 well some people did but 20:46:15 tbf a lot of people noticed, they just thought they'd gotten better at the game 20:46:36 well *some* people thought that I guess 20:47:10 I heard murmers about player damage but I wasn't even thinking to look into this as an issue, and I did play a spen with the bug 20:52:23 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:45 -!- Amenrfn is now known as Amnesthesia 20:56:42 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:10 reaverb: my understanding is that's basically already how crawl development operates? I mean look at the process (or lack thereof) when a new spell is added 20:58:43 ...wait you're a dev, I guess it is stupid of me to say that to you :P 20:58:45 <_miek> I had a few indications but didn't really follow the thought train through 20:58:57 lots of people noticed higher damage, they just didn't report it as a bug 20:59:06 <_miek> some guy was watching my game and said my damage was insane, but I was like "+9 exec axe with no slaying, should be pretty normal considering I'm in Pan" 20:59:09 just assumed it was their imagination or whatever 20:59:41 <_miek> I just assumed he didn't have experience with melee fighters at all 20:59:44 there were plenty of people mentioning it on ##crawl, just nobody figured out that it might actually be real :P 21:00:00 see also: the summon ice beast complaints 21:00:01 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:08 ??apropos randart 21:00:08 apropos randart ~ apropos randarts[1/27]: Randarts with cohesive flavour. 21:00:15 what was the Summon Ice Beast bug 21:01:45 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:05 monster attack flavours dealt 0 damage, or something like that 21:02:06 i'll just let whatever nerds want it to be 27 entries sort it out 21:02:18 !learn add apropos_randart the ring of Doubts {SustAb Str+9 Slay-4} 21:02:18 # DracoOmega * 0.13-a0-338-gd5b758e: Fix all monster attack flavours inflicting 0 damage 21:02:19 apropos randart[1/1]: the ring of Doubts {SustAb Str+9 Slay-4} 21:02:43 rip 21:02:45 !learn del apropos_randart 21:02:46 rip 21:02:46 Deleted apropos randart[1/1]: the ring of Doubts {SustAb Str+9 Slay-4} 21:02:54 !learn add apropos_randarts the ring of Doubts {SustAb Str+9 Slay-4} 21:02:55 apropos randarts[28/28]: the ring of Doubts {SustAb Str+9 Slay-4} 21:02:56 and welcome back 21:03:40 minmay: Fudgy balance how it operates when you're "adding" something. Once you do something that could be phrased as "removing", everybody becomes all cautious >_> <_< 21:03:51 s/balance/balance is/ 21:04:02 !learn del apropos randarts[28] 21:04:02 Deleted apropos randarts[28/28]: the ring of Doubts {SustAb Str+9 Slay-4} 21:04:10 sorry i just looked at the other 26 and all of them are better 21:04:29 I really don't get how that ring relates to Doubts? 21:04:49 reaverb: from now on, instead of phrasing things as "removing", phrase them as "adding" 21:04:49 i think the idea is that you have doubts about using it because it has -slay on it 21:05:10 for instance, instead of removing sure blade, you're adding a lack of sure blade 21:05:13 "Add a lack of salamanders." 21:05:14 ... 21:05:15 yes 21:05:29 we're on the same wavelength here 21:05:32 which is a little scary 21:05:35 add doubt to blades 21:05:41 or phrase it as "Add balance." bulletproof 21:05:59 boom 21:05:59 at some point more balance will be undesirable 21:06:09 reaverb: still, changing the hp of presumably all monsters would be a pretty big balance change 21:06:22 n1k: the ultimate balance. remove the game. 21:06:32 yes 21:06:52 also, the philosophy section of the manual says "no no-brainers." this can be simplified to "brainers" 21:06:57 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:19 minmay: Given that the melee damage bug just effetively halved all monster hp, I'm not so sure. Particularly since this would actually target the *variance* in monster hp from monster to monster. 21:07:37 If I had a patch that did it I would probably argue it should be pushed immediately (but I don't) 21:07:52 ("immediately" as in "as soon as 0.17 starts") 21:07:59 reaverb: the melee damage bug was also considered a tournament-breaking disaster, so... 21:08:01 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:28 melee damage bug didn't halve monster HP for casters :x 21:09:12 minmay: Yeah, but any changes from monster HP for this would be an order of magnitude less. And if it's still a problem there's always just tweaking it again later. 21:09:19 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:15 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16.0-19-gb078050: Reapply a fix for a crash with cleaving + infusion vs spectral weapons 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 27+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b0780509544d 21:10:17 reaverb: I'm literally the person who asked for this change, I'm not telling you not to do it :P 21:12:57 I think it might be fine if you didn't actually specify mhp variability for monsters. 21:13:11 just specify an average hp, and all generated monsters have +- some % of that. 21:13:20 (some % fixed across all monsters.) 21:13:39 speak now if you have commits you want in 0.16.1 21:13:40 19:52:48 also, fr I don't think you can cancel out of acquirement prompt if you want to check your equipment, even if the scroll is known <- this is for really dumb technical reasons involving SIGHUP 21:13:48 basically it's because of console players, iirc 21:13:53 fr remove console players 21:14:05 gammafunk: ^ 21:14:10 fr remove tiles 21:14:13 ! 21:14:19 uniform distribution for hp? 21:14:21 Pleasingfungus: Yeah that would be the best implementation. But it requires getting the current system into that form. (Also should it be flat distribution or normal?) 21:14:25 I don't think that is really a console-specific issue 21:14:40 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:43 reaverb: yeah, you'd need to run a script over the current system (and then sanity-check) 21:14:45 The reason you can't cancel acquirement is so that if you lose the connection after the prompt you don't lose the scroll. 21:15:15 gammafunk: isn't it just a ssh thing? (SIGHUP) 21:15:22 possibly I'm misremembering 21:15:22 PleasingFungus: Yeah. Hmm, actually I'm learning how to read files with python right now... 21:15:25 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:29 PleasingFungus: that sounds like the best approach to me definitely 21:15:35 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: no, closing the window should work similarly 21:15:37 PleasingFungus: you're so cute sometimes 21:15:40 ah, ok 21:15:43 I stand corrected 21:15:49 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:15:49 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: except on Windows closing the window breaks lots of stuff instead 21:15:49 what with your "Mac" 21:16:04 heh 21:16:16 <|amethyst> you could allow shoing inventory by pushing a new acquirement uncancellable, then exiting the acquirement loop and going into inventory 21:16:23 <|amethyst> hm 21:16:24 <|amethyst> no 21:16:35 I have a bonus acquirement-related question: 21:16:38 <|amethyst> you'd need some flag to prevent you from actually doing anything in the inventory screen 21:16:42 how on earth do draconians generate bucklers 21:16:47 they do but I can't figure out what code path they take 21:17:20 imo remove shields from armour acquirement so you dont have to figure it out 21:17:20 (armour acq for drac players) 21:17:23 :P 21:17:36 I have a terrible suspicion that something is doing enum arithmetic 21:17:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh 21:17:52 aquire new drac colour 21:17:54 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: when you said that, I first looked in mon-gear.cc 21:17:55 <|amethyst> :P 21:17:59 sorry! 21:18:03 I realized I was ambiguous a moment after 21:19:24 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:05 oh 21:20:15 stuff was appended 21:20:29 ok, mystery solved: draconian armour acq cannot generate bucklers 21:20:36 shields, large shields, but not bucklers 21:20:39 <|amethyst> I'm not getting bucklers 21:20:40 <|amethyst> yeah 21:20:53 yeah I didn't realized my older debug info was on top of the output file 21:20:56 oops 21:21:21 anyway, mystery solved 21:21:25 -!- Wehk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:32 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:08 can draconians still not wear bucklers? 21:22:51 or does armour acquirement just not give them 21:22:59 <|amethyst> they don't get them from acq 21:24:57 the code for choosing shield types is hugely duplicated 21:25:22 shocking 21:25:36 also draconians get large shields at the same rate as ogres, trolls, centaurs, nagas & formicids 21:25:41 <|amethyst> is (is_bootlike(arm)) result = racial_boot(); 21:25:46 as opposed to the lower rates for most races 21:25:46 <|amethyst> s/is/if/ 21:25:51 |amethyst: I am currently rewriting all of this 21:26:06 <|amethyst> yay 21:26:15 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:16 just have three things left: shields, body armour, and xom generating unusable items 21:26:46 in ascending order of importance 21:27:47 are you doing shield skill reform for 0.17? 21:28:01 maybe if I unretire 21:28:05 oh, that "shields" is about acquirement 21:28:05 nvm 21:28:15 sry 21:28:17 you retired?? but who do I bug now 21:28:51 gammafunk: 21:28:52 it's apparent how much you "retired" 21:28:54 d: 21:28:55 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:10 retirement means not having to worry about things like shield reform. 21:29:13 (: 21:29:40 -!- Jonatan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:41 (:?? 21:29:41 (: 21:29:56 nemelex still makes your body glow a weird rainbow color thing when you die 21:30:02 well, whatever capacity this retirement is, thanks for all your commits since commit #1: "Revert "Keep rPois ring on autopickup even after finding one for Fo" Thanks to PleasingFungus for pointing out that this was no longer neccessary" (1 year, 1 month ago) 21:30:05 i dont think thats really relevant anymore? 21:30:19 it's cool tho 21:30:37 could replace it with some other effect that actually makes sense with newnewenwnewnemelex 21:30:38 http://puu.sh/gLLk9/a6150e151d.png 21:30:39 if you had a cool idea 21:30:44 chequers: ty! 21:30:53 gammafunk: new murray 21:30:56 !!!!! 21:30:59 tho I think, um, that wasn't mine... 21:31:01 well, still needs some stuff 21:31:01 As you die, you hear voices complaining about how much better adventurers were before the nerf. 21:31:03 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:31:08 CanOfWorms: that is the best 21:31:17 tile should randomly pick from the four 21:31:20 ye 21:31:28 and it shall become a new gammafunk RandomTile 21:31:33 THIS I DECLARE 21:31:52 my first commit was the one that removed fannar's autobio 21:31:58 too bad murry is a bad unique 21:32:04 but at least he'll have an awesome tile 21:32:07 he might secretly be good now 21:32:12 no one knows since he doesn't appear in any games 21:32:15 although it's a shame that rotating his head makes him change direction 21:32:26 I had him appear in the vestibule once 21:32:31 offline 21:32:35 offline?? 21:32:36 doesn't count 21:32:39 nice 21:32:44 *gasp* 21:32:48 yeah I think I've run into him like 21:32:50 once 21:32:51 myself 21:32:56 PleasingFungus: the reason I brought him up in here is that I recently encountered him 21:33:06 i don't know if i've ever encountered him 21:33:09 he's definitely not good 21:33:14 !lm . uniq=murray 21:33:15 No milestones for doy (uniq=murray). 21:33:15 !lm . uniq=murray 21:33:15 not even secretly! 21:33:17 3. [2015-01-12 16:07:48] gammafunk the Bludgeoner (L26 FoAK of Lugonu) killed Murray on turn 85064. (Depths:2) 21:33:19 !lm . uniq=murray 21:33:20 wow, 3 21:33:20 12. [2015-03-04 01:27:25] minmay the Demonic Blade (L22 DsAr of Trog) killed Murray on turn 55834. (Hell) 21:33:22 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:33:26 I only remember one 21:33:26 holy shit 12 I need to get a life 21:33:31 and I don't really remember even one 21:33:41 minmay: rip 21:33:45 no love for black mark? 21:33:51 I wonder what that does 21:33:52 !lm . uniq=murray 1 21:33:53 1/3. [2013-04-08 04:59:21] gammafunk the Wrestler (L27 DrMo of The Shining One) killed Murray on turn 116286. (Hell) 21:33:56 black mark is probably the most useless Ds mutation there is 21:33:58 !lm . uniq=murray 2 21:33:59 2/3. [2013-05-22 06:42:11] gammafunk the Evocator (L27 OpDK of Vehumet) killed Murray on turn 140478. (Hell) 21:34:03 ??black mark 21:34:03 black mark[1/2]: Demonspawn mutation gained at level 3 of the negative energy facet. Give melee attacks that deal damage a 1/5 chance of gaining a vampiric effect and applying antimagic, weakness or draining to the target. The vampiric effect affects all non-summoned monsters. 21:34:04 oh I guess passive freeze is more useless 21:34:05 ??black mark[2 21:34:05 black mark[2/2]: Also a monster spell, from {black sun}s and {Murray}. Any allies in LOS as well as the caster begin absorbing vital energies, and any melee done will, with no rN check, heal said individuals as well as either drain XP, speed, or mp. (This has an antimagic, slowing, or HD drain effect on other monsters). Not that dangerous without the right ally. 21:34:08 obviously murray should mesmerize the player through clever insults 21:34:16 wow that is 21:34:22 extremely hangedman/do 21:34:24 oh you mean the monster spell 21:34:27 yes 21:34:38 the hanged' slapped it on murray before leaving 21:34:46 it seemed very hangedman/pleasingfungus/grunt to me 21:34:46 in an attempt to make him less generic 21:34:53 wow 21:35:00 that is like 21:35:02 I don't think I would implement an effect that "either drains XP, speed, or mp" 21:35:07 the most terrifying SoH I've ever heard of 21:35:07 I thought you did the tomb stuff 21:35:11 no 21:35:16 whoops 21:35:18 the hangedman-pleasingfungus-grunt SoH 21:35:27 fr: black mark for tar soh 21:35:28 * PleasingFungus breathes segfaults! 21:35:33 has PleasingFungus ever made a monster 21:35:37 oh! robin 21:35:40 and torpor 21:35:42 yes 21:35:50 geeze simm 21:35:52 simmarine: that realization was... 21:35:54 a little... 21:35:55 !glasses 21:35:56 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 21:36:02 no wonder you didn't catch 2x damage bug 21:36:02 slow 21:36:02 sequell also a little slow 21:36:04 Well, given that I fought murray with black mark, and had no goddamned idea that he had black mark, I'm gonna go ahead and say it didn't improve him much 21:36:10 minmay: that's fair 21:36:14 I didn't even kill him fast 21:36:35 just don't want people criticizing a design based on obsolete info! given you have current info: rip 21:36:36 !lg * t cikiller=~the_serpent_of_hell s=place 21:36:36 you can probably tab through murray really easilly in tiles without ever seeing him 21:36:37 18 games for * (t cikiller=~the_serpent_of_hell): 10x Dis:7, 7x Geh:7, Coc:7 21:36:41 hmmm 21:36:54 why is nobody dying to coc anymore 21:36:54 @??murray 21:36:55 Murray (04z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 160 | AC/EV: 30/10 | Dam: 20, 20 | 07undead, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2383 | Sp: sum.undead [06!sil], black mark [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 21:37:00 I'd notice red z I think 21:37:04 doy: with that sample size? 21:37:07 doy: when caustic shrikes were added they made people realize how bad coc is I think 21:37:13 er 21:37:13 er 21:37:15 shard shrikes 21:37:19 shrike shrikes 21:37:19 same thing 21:37:33 PleasingFungus: Arrhythmia will not stop telling me to add other kinds of shrikes 21:37:35 strike shrikes 21:37:40 shard shrikes' names are my greatest mistake. 21:37:40 OTOH people still die in dis apparently 21:37:41 he's become the tabstorm of adding shrikes 21:37:42 gammafunk: ya me too 21:37:46 haha 21:38:06 !send nicolae- SHRIKE STRIKE 21:38:06 Sending SHRIKE STRIKE to nicolae-. 21:38:34 @??orc wizard 21:38:34 orc wizard (06o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 37 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), invisibility, magic dart (3d4), confuse / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:38:37 Shrike^Shrike 21:38:47 monsters all have different casting weights now right 21:39:24 they are capable of having different casting weights, i think most of them still have the same weights as before 21:39:44 well can someone fix cantrip messages to not be the most misleading thing ever 21:40:04 when I saw "the orc whatever looks stronger" as an unspoiled player i thought it was buffing its melee damage or something 21:40:07 same 21:40:12 likewise eyes glowing and shit 21:40:15 yeah 21:40:20 can't it just say "the orc whatever miscasts a spell" 21:40:22 "someone" should do this, yes 21:40:33 or something else that makes it clear that it just wasted a turn 21:40:47 ok, I'll put it on my TODO 21:40:58 <|amethyst> "The orc whatever casts a cantrip." 21:41:18 "casts a cantrip" would make me think that it just cast a spell to clean its fingernails or something 21:41:27 so it would cure fingernail poison 21:41:32 ship it 21:41:33 <|amethyst> perhaps it did 21:41:43 oo, my TODO is nearly up to 1000 lines! 21:41:43 "The orc traces a rune in midair." "The orc says a few syllables." "The orc casts a spell to clean its fingernails." 21:41:52 TODO: trim TODO list 21:42:11 <|amethyst> I suggest this because "cantrip" is listed in the monster spell list 21:42:15 <|amethyst> in xv 21:42:27 <|amethyst> and listing "miscast" there would be a little funny 21:42:37 oh, right 21:42:38 http://puu.sh/gLM2m/9dae221aa7.png 21:42:42 should probably just not list it at all 21:42:47 it's meaningless 21:42:50 murray faces the same direction as he rolls 21:43:02 doy: it's not meaningless, it makes them lose actions... 21:43:03 considering the same effect would be had by just removing the spell entirely and adding some more monster speech 21:43:14 doy: monster speech doesn't consume energy 21:43:17 <|amethyst> speech doesn't cost an action 21:43:20 <|amethyst> what minmay said 21:43:53 I don't think most people know what a cantrip is 21:44:19 <|amethyst> fortunately there are online dictionaries 21:44:20 it's what happens if you leave your cans lying around 21:44:47 <|amethyst> also xv 21:44:55 i think the use of cantrip to mean a spell that does nothing important is derived from d&d and its derivatives 21:44:56 hmmm, i didn't realize it was an actual thing, i thought it was just a d&d-ism 21:45:06 PleasingFungus: everyone who speaks English knows what a 'Pyromancer' is. In fact when I started playing the names threw me off because they were so random. I had to read the description of them to know "Okay, that's a Pyromancer." Because Fire Elementalist is so obtuse and awkward that it implies there a lot more hidden about it then there actually is. 21:45:22 <|amethyst> doy: well, the use meaning "a really low-level spell" is D&D 21:45:27 yeah, true 21:45:35 if we're trying to make the messages clearer, introducing an obscure word seems not that useful - being able to cross-correlate with xv is something, but i feel like if players are actually xving and checking cantrip's description, they're pretty close to not needing clarification anyway... 21:45:36 idk 21:45:39 <|amethyst> doy: in Magic it means a spell that lets you draw a card 21:45:40 minmay: I remember that post!!! 21:45:46 cantrips in D&D do do important things, though - there are lots of cantrips that do damage or whatever 21:45:46 ah, that post 21:45:47 <|amethyst> doy: even if it's a decent spell to begin with 21:45:57 |amethyst: well, that's unofficial usage 21:46:06 *shoves the Pyromancer guy into a locker* 21:46:33 hm 21:47:15 doesn't cantrip just literally mean "spell" basically 21:47:19 nicolae: I think you mean a storage receptacle*nod* 21:47:27 minmay: A /small/ spell. 21:47:28 -!- robmoose has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:28 so it's kind of a terrible name for xv anyway 21:47:30 Cantrip is a word of Scots origin to mean a magical spell of any kind 21:47:41 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:47:47 yeah, the use in crawl is pretty clearly influenced by d&d 21:48:26 <|amethyst> yeah 21:48:30 reaverb: none of the online dictionaries I'm finding include a part about it being small 21:48:40 <|amethyst> "A level 91-95 spell/tome/song in Everquest, part of the Veil of Alaris expansion." 21:48:47 hell of a cantrip 21:49:12 Hmm. 21:49:19 <|amethyst> minmay: 2. Chiefly British A deceptive move; a sham. 21:49:22 maybe it's better to just remove cantrip and let orc wizards/priests/etc be a bit more dangerous 21:49:23 <|amethyst> minmay: not small, but 21:49:45 |amethyst: I was gonna copy-paste that one but then I didn't :( 21:49:49 it's not like they're going to become more dangerous than giant geckos 21:49:58 !lg * t s=cikiller 21:49:59 57748 games for * (t): 4727x, 3962x a hobgoblin, 3449x a gnoll, 3414x a kobold, 2990x an adder, 2884x a jackal, 1832x a player ghost, 1805x a goblin, 1710x an orc priest, 1702x a worm, 1515x a giant gecko, 1282x an orc wizard, 1241x Sigmund, 1180x an orc, 1113x a pandemonium lord, 1054x an ogre, 1035x an orc warrior, 748x a rat, 710x a centaur, 547x a killer bee, 538x Grinder, 501x a bat, 477x a h... 21:50:09 <|amethyst> minmay: this would make 1/3 of orc wizards better 21:50:16 <|amethyst> it's only in one of the spell sets 21:50:18 I'm aware 21:50:29 and orc wizards would still be more dangerous than orc priests 21:50:55 orc priest (03o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 10-20 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 41 | Sp: pain (d8) [11!AM], cantrip [11!AM], smiting (7-17) [11!AM], heal other (2d1) [11!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:50:55 %??orc priest 21:51:42 !lg greatplayers t s=cikiller 21:51:47 1013 games for greatplayers (t): 299x, 41x an adder, 38x a gnoll, 29x an orc priest, 25x a hobgoblin, 23x an orc warrior, 23x a jackal, 20x a kobold, 18x a centaur, 16x a giant gecko, 14x a player ghost, 14x an ogre, 13x an orc wizard, 12x the player character, 12x a pandemonium lord, 12x Sigmund, 11x a worm, 11x a goblin, 10x a hydra, 10x an orc, 8x a killer bee, 8x an unseen horror, 8x a cyclops... 21:52:03 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141207030205]] 21:52:24 kill count is not a good measure of this 21:52:27 should check against an objstat list, I suppose 21:52:31 especially with doubled melee damage 21:52:36 heh, true 21:52:38 and that 21:53:14 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:34 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:53:55 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:56:35 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:57:08 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:46 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:57:54 minmay: Is there a particularly reason you're fine with Cacodemon dig but not Deep Troll Earth Mage dig? (I was thinking of reducing the frequency Deep Troll Earth Mages cast dig, since we have that technology now) 22:02:06 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:26 reaverb: where did you hear I was fine with current cacodemon dig? only energy bolt and old cacodemon dig 22:02:41 Cacodemons are the most annoying demons. Not particularly deadly, but Dig AND Malmutate. heh 22:02:46 reaverb: I think monster dig wand usage is an even bigger problem than dtem 22:03:04 Hmm, what was the differance between old cacodemon dig and current cacodemon dig? 22:03:29 old cacodemon dig, if the cacodemon was hostile, would only get used if you were in a tomb or something 22:03:46 it probably had to see you through a translucent wall or something 22:03:54 so it was basically like them not having dig at all :P 22:04:33 and nearly impossible for them to break a vault 22:05:15 current monster dig is designed to wreck the terrain all over, all the time, so it hurts positioning a lot and breaks vaults routinely 22:05:26 I just remembered somebody drawing a distinction between Cacodemon and Deep Troll Earth Mage dig and I was wondering it was frequency...I can see the argument for not having monster dig at all but I think monster Dig adds enough to keep it around? Hmm. 22:05:48 Maybe the monster targetting could be changed. 22:05:48 isn't that explicitly the point of monster dig 22:05:59 -!- Cheburashka has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:04 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:07 yes, it is the point of monster dig 22:06:08 doy: The "breaks vaults" or "breaks positioning" 22:06:13 that's why I said it's designed to do that 22:06:16 "breaks positioning" 22:07:10 I don't bring it up myself because with things like op crusher added, the design of dig is obviously not going to change any time soon 22:08:24 doy: I think Deep Troll Earth Mags might break positioning a bit too hard and dialing it down would be good? There's space between "normal" positioning and "walls can never be used for cover" (which is what current Deep Troll pack fights feel like something) 22:08:31 reaverb: yeah, that's fair 22:09:03 <|amethyst> could have more stone 22:09:15 <|amethyst> veins of stone running through a mostly-rock level 22:09:24 If I see an enemy EE (Player Ghost of Deep Troll); I'd never touch a wall until it'sdead. 22:09:25 <|amethyst> (or crystal or whatever) 22:10:07 That would also nerf Fo, likely. 22:10:47 |amethyst: Hmm, that's a neat solution. 22:11:45 It actually would be flavorful, but it's really an edge case. 22:13:21 I mean wouldn't adding that to level generation be a lot of work for something that only comes up in edge cases. (Players would only see it if they are a Fo that overuses Digging; or have an excessively long fight with a digging monster) 22:13:38 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:14:04 not sure it would be a lot of work 22:14:20 but honestly, "a lot of work for edge cases" is a pretty defining feature of crawl development 22:16:43 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:16:44 <|amethyst> s/crawl // :P 22:18:59 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 22:19:00 It's not an edge case if the veins are like two walls down from the "surface". Would have to look through the possible layout options, see if there's something which makes monster Dig more interesting. Hmm, best thing to do would probably create a encompass vault to test this idea >_> 22:19:48 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:21:00 It'd be a lot of work to add them to all the level generation patters possible in lower dungeon... 22:21:14 <|amethyst> I was thinking as postprocessing in _fixup_walls 22:21:25 <|amethyst> but you would want some way of saying "don't do that" 22:21:42 I can't cycle through stairs 22:21:46 <|amethyst> and probably affecting vaults would be bad 22:21:56 X > > > > only goes to one > 22:21:56 <|amethyst> johnstein: are they reachable? 22:21:56 same with < 22:22:02 yes. level is clear 22:22:09 <|amethyst> johnstein: no exclusions or clouds? 22:22:19 also, I can't move the cursor very far away from me 22:22:24 &watchlink . 22:22:25 http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#watch-johnstein 22:22:46 oh good god, now that everyone is watching it's working 22:22:51 heh 22:22:55 maybe I had caps lock on 22:22:56 <|amethyst> were you pressing x instead of X? 22:23:01 <|amethyst> ah 22:23:01 that has to be it 22:23:02 <|amethyst> yeah 22:26:00 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:17 It might work in cleanup; depends on the patterns... 22:27:25 want like veins or? 22:28:05 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:52 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:30:56 I feel like the VM start could use a buff. Poison is one of the easier school to reach lair with; but Lair-level enough dangerous stuff has rPois to make it foolish to focus (Spiny Frogs, Hydras, Black Mambas, Death Yaks). Really needs something that can do some damage or at least an effect through one pip. 22:30:59 !lg cpo t x=cv 22:31:00 No games for cpo (t). 22:31:15 !lg * t src=cpo x=vlong 22:31:16 837. [vlong=0.16.0] JohnnyRipsauce the Sneak (L4 SpAs), slain by a centaur on D:3 on 2015-03-23 03:29:56, with 128 points after 2654 turns and 0:13:21. 22:31:28 did chequers do update cpo? 22:31:36 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:31:42 <_miek> !lg * t src=cpo 22:31:43 838. Fiveotanaka the Grappler (L7 TrMo), succumbed to Eustachio's poison on D:8 on 2015-03-23 03:30:54, with 740 points after 1449 turns and 0:03:22. 22:31:48 is there any way we can have shadow traps not spawn spores? 22:31:50 no, life is getting in the way 22:31:51 <_miek> !lg * t src=cpo !meleebug 22:31:51 No games for * (t src=cpo !meleebug). 22:31:54 1985. [dam=33;hp=-1;mhp=50] WalkerBoh the Chopper (L6 DDAM), killed by an exploding giant spore (summoned by a shadow trap (triggered by the player character)) on D:6 on 2015-03-23 03:29:24, with 504 points after 3077 turns and 0:22:06. 22:32:00 shift-walking 22:32:10 into a shadow trap, spore instantly exploded 22:32:15 chequers: ok, as long as you're aware :) 22:32:20 probably in few hours 22:32:24 or even better, not spawn shadow traps 22:32:25 !lg * t src=cwz x=vlong 22:32:25 1775. [vlong=0.16.0-4-g7e54fe0] SUBZER0 the Nimble (L11 DsBe of Trog), slain by an eight-headed hydra on D:10 on 2015-03-23 03:30:53, with 8049 points after 9393 turns and 0:43:58. 22:32:38 also I need to go home and start a game on the old version ;) 22:32:46 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:32:50 no, it's intended that autoexplore can do 45 damage to characters on D6 22:32:52 still no luck with long, but oddly enough I think the old ckr admin posted in that thread I made 22:32:56 obviously this is a good feature 22:32:57 there's a response by "assembler" 22:32:59 !lg assembler 22:33:00 284. assembler the Slasher (L1 HuBe of Trog), succumbed to a goblin's poison on D:1 (dpeg_chamrin_arrival_tetris) on 2014-11-13 08:12:56, with 2 points after 27 turns and 0:00:20. 22:33:04 !lg assembler x=src 22:33:04 284. [src=ckr] assembler the Slasher (L1 HuBe of Trog), succumbed to a goblin's poison on D:1 (dpeg_chamrin_arrival_tetris) on 2014-11-13 08:12:56, with 2 points after 27 turns and 0:00:20. 22:33:07 rast: that's also true without shadow traps.... 22:33:08 <|amethyst> I believe assembler is sd1989 22:33:10 yeah that was him iirc 22:33:14 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:33:17 PleasingFungus blade traps? 22:33:21 PleasingFungus: it bugs me more that i didn't have a turn, i just instantly died 22:33:25 |amethyst: http://nethack.byus.net/gnu4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board&wr_id=103226 22:33:25 <|amethyst> not 100% certain about that though 22:33:25 rast: autoexplore around the corner into a spore 22:33:32 "assembler" posting at the bottom 22:33:33 seems crawl has been going in a direction to eliminate that type of thing 22:33:36 not sure what he's saying though :/ 22:33:43 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:33:47 shadow trap spore seems more unfair 22:33:47 WalkerBoh: yeah that's odd; I wouldn't think any monsters spawned by a shadow trap would have enough energy to act instantly 22:33:58 normally you get a turn 22:33:59 oh god, shadow trap spore 22:34:06 possibly there's some weird witchcraft around when spores explode? 22:34:06 PleasingFungus: it's possible i double tapped 22:34:07 also the worst: shadow creatures spores 22:34:10 which is pretty normal when shift walking 22:34:13 and wouldnt real spores have had explosions 22:34:20 you had shift held? 22:34:22 so you might be alert 22:34:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: google translate says "Oh, thank God directly" :) 22:34:27 i was tapping shift 22:34:33 oh 22:34:37 |amethyst: yeah but what does it mean?! :) 22:34:51 <_miek> is it intentional that shadow traps are worse than zot traps? 22:35:05 like, "oh for christ's sake, what a clown!" essentially? 22:35:08 or "thank goodness!" 22:35:09 _miek: yes. 22:35:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: or maybe something along the lines of "oh dear lord" 22:35:14 in fact, they are supposed to kill you instantly. 22:35:19 randart spellbook spotted: http://i.imgur.com/VSacQNm.jpg 22:35:24 oh in that case complaint withdrawn 22:35:25 I need to learn korean 22:35:26 any case in which a shadow trap is triggered & the player does not die may be filed as a bug. 22:35:28 i'll just not play crawl :) 22:35:30 <_miek> okay fair enough 22:35:41 <_miek> I see you're playing the dev's advocate 22:36:12 WalkerBoh: Godspeed. 22:36:25 I wish you luck in your new, more productive life. 22:36:26 <|amethyst> FR: when shadow creatures kill you the game says "But it was all a dream..." and gives you a felid-style extra life 22:36:37 <|amethyst> also when they kill monsters 22:37:12 <_miek> ??mantis 22:37:12 mantis[1/2]: To report bugs or submit new content like vaults, patches or tiles, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 22:37:12 no need to be a dick 22:37:17 dang, rod of shadows nerf... 22:37:21 pretty sure when I die, it'll be PleasingFungus at the pearly gates. He'll just wave his hands, and a shadow trap will appear, and he'll just say "You want in? Step on it." 22:37:32 <_miek> would it be taking it too far to file an actual 'survived a shadow trap' bug? 22:37:37 <|amethyst> I do think killing you with zero chance to take an action is unfair 22:37:37 _miek: yes. 22:37:39 -!- agentgt_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:37:57 <|amethyst> I think delaying the monsters one turn would work 22:38:11 i think it already works that way probably 22:38:13 Spawning them with negative energy, you mean? 22:38:14 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16.0-19-gb078050 22:38:19 They already should start with 0, I'd think. 22:38:20 did elliptic have some specific plans for changing shadow traps? 22:38:21 i'd just prefer not to spawn spores 22:38:28 or was that just a joke 22:38:28 <_miek> make them neutral 22:38:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: yeah, hm 22:38:30 since they're the only thing you can shift tap into and explode 22:38:36 but apparently that's desirable 22:38:46 There are quite a lot of situations in which a double-tap will get you killed. 22:38:51 It's just a hostile cast of Shadow Creatures, isn't it? 22:38:52 Crawl is not a game that rewards carelessness. 22:38:55 <|amethyst> If it worked that way, shift run wouldn't kill you 22:38:58 while holding shift? with nohting in sight? 22:39:09 Sure. 22:39:09 !lg WalkerBoh -tv 22:39:10 1985. WalkerBoh, XL6 DDAM, T:3077 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 22:39:13 that's bullshit 22:39:18 WalkerBoh: doesn't this count? 22:39:19 <|amethyst> because you would be interrupted and would get an action before the spore explodes 22:39:21 !lg . br=shoals 22:39:22 53. gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna), blasted by Mara (bolt of fire) on Shoals:5 on 2015-03-22 03:50:57, with 20698 points after 9231 turns and 1:12:39. 22:39:25 i'm supposed to explore by waiting a full second between every action? 22:39:30 walked into his los with a ring of ice on 22:39:30 just in case? 22:39:35 one-shot me from full hp 22:39:36 <_miek> I don't think I've ever gone from safe to dead in 2 turns 22:39:41 before I could act 22:39:45 <_miek> at like d:6 22:39:48 !lg dpeg killer=~doy -tv 22:39:49 1. dpeg, XL12 SpVM, T:25156 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 22:39:54 I have a lot of sympathy for "getting killed instantly sucks" but not for "I entered commands repeatedly before waiting for the previous ones to resolve, and then died". 22:40:12 <|amethyst> Doing that is why I'm a bad player 22:40:16 <|amethyst> and I fully admit that :) 22:40:20 If crawl did not kill players who did that, I would think something was wrong with Crawl. 22:40:36 the best part of this is that neil's win doesn't count because of a bug neil made 22:40:42 <|amethyst> I know! 22:40:46 shift + direction should have just warned if there was a monster in LOS 22:40:49 If shift-movement encourages players to multi-tap, that, in turn, seems like a problem with shift-movement... 22:40:49 including a spore 22:40:53 yeah that 22:40:54 yeah exactly 22:41:05 <_miek> or if walking into a trap 22:41:07 and it did not 22:41:09 I'd be fine with changing running so it doesn't attack. 22:41:16 <_miek> grats on the win btw |amethyst 22:41:19 Er, intentionally attack. 22:41:20 <_miek> its still something 22:41:23 <|amethyst> _miek: thanks :) 22:41:24 you can always shift-move into an invisible monster. 22:41:37 at least Grunt doesn't feel he'll need to nerf Q now 22:41:38 <|amethyst> oh, shift-move attacks? 22:41:40 But I don't think there's actually a good reason why someone would want shift-movement to act as an attack command. 22:41:43 Apparently? 22:41:43 <|amethyst> that sounds kind of bad 22:41:45 yeah 22:41:58 paralysis and lcs are such a great part of crawl 22:42:28 i don't think shift-move attacks 22:42:30 yeah that isn't desirable I don't think. I tend to think of holding shift as a safeguard against doing things with monsters around 22:42:34 aside from shift+tab 22:42:36 ^ 22:42:49 they demand that you get better at crawl and find sources of MR and get better at not getting hit for 123 damage 22:42:52 or if it does, it's a recent bug 22:42:54 if i was regular moving, i wouldn't have any complaint 22:42:57 Let me see. 22:43:03 <|amethyst> &rc walkerboh 22:43:04 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.16/WalkerBoh.rc 22:43:10 Looks like it does attack, yes. 22:43:28 hm 22:43:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: are you sure shift-direction is working at all for you? 22:43:38 yeah I just came to the conclusion that it's not 22:43:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: try HJKL to be sure 22:43:53 <|amethyst> HJKL definitely doesn't attack for me 22:43:56 yeah it doesn't for me either 22:44:00 same 22:44:04 hrm, but movement has to attempt to attack, right, because invisible monsters? or is that not really related to this 22:44:27 <|amethyst> if you can see a monster, it doesn't do anything (0 turns) 22:44:37 -!- reaverb has left ##crawl-dev 22:44:45 I get "there is a strange disturbance nearby!" when I try 22:44:48 <|amethyst> I don't *think* you can get a generated-invisible giant spore? 22:44:52 ah, no, it does attakc 22:45:03 if you have an invisible monster that you try to shift-move into 22:45:07 <_miek> I think you have to take a turn otherwise you're giving away free information 22:45:10 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: aha 22:45:14 yeah because otherwise you'd get free info 22:45:20 <|amethyst> so maybe it generated a giant spore and an unseen horror 22:45:30 no it was just a spore 22:45:36 it clearly says "you closely miss the giant spore" 22:45:40 hm 22:45:49 webtiles problem? 22:45:52 like that stupid ranged bug 22:45:53 console 22:45:55 <|amethyst> !lg walkerboh 22:45:56 1985. WalkerBoh the Chopper (L6 DDAM), killed by an exploding giant spore (summoned by a shadow trap (triggered by the player character)) on D:6 on 2015-03-23 03:29:24, with 504 points after 3077 turns and 0:22:06. 22:46:01 !lg grunt s=tiles 22:46:02 1426 games for grunt: 1425x false, true 22:46:05 <|amethyst> WalkerBoh: yeah, does shift-direction run for you? 22:46:09 the ranged bug is console as well, apparently 22:46:10 yep 22:46:14 <|amethyst> !lg walkerboh -log 22:46:14 1985. WalkerBoh, XL6 DDAM, T:3077: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/WalkerBoh/morgue-WalkerBoh-20150323-032924.txt 22:46:17 that's normally how i move around 22:46:20 <|amethyst> WalkerBoh: axe 22:46:23 <_miek> there was an adder there too 22:47:04 I can't seem to reproduce this 22:47:11 !lg walkerboh -log 22:47:12 <|amethyst> WalkerBoh: so if you moved in the direction of an unseen horror the swing would have hit the spore anyway 22:47:12 1985. WalkerBoh, XL6 DDAM, T:3077: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/WalkerBoh/morgue-WalkerBoh-20150323-032924.txt 22:47:13 <_miek> so it seems strange that you did shift+dir with an adder in plain sight 22:47:17 <|amethyst> WalkerBoh: notice it also hit the adder 22:47:27 <|amethyst> then again 22:47:29 good, looks like we're building ok on ubuntu trusty with LTO disabled and PCRE enabled 22:47:31 yeah, shift-dir shouldn't be able to attack if there are any visible enemies 22:47:31 _miek: that was also from the trap 22:47:38 !time 22:47:38 Time: Mar 23, 2015, 03:47:38 AM, UTC. The 2015 0.16 tournament ends in 6 days, 16 hours, 12 minutes and 21 seconds. 22:47:41 even if you're shift-dir-ing into an invisible one 22:47:52 <|amethyst> oh, right 22:47:54 <_miek> yes the trap spawned both monsters but then the next turn if you pressed shift+dir nothing should have happened right? 22:48:03 theoretically 22:48:09 <_miek> not that there was a lot you could've done there 22:48:15 if we can't reproduce it, it's more likely i chose that turn to not press shift-dir 22:48:22 despite holding it as i move usually =/ 22:48:24 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:26 even odds between that 22:48:31 and a variant on the awful ranged tab bug 22:49:32 <_miek> which then means that nitpicking over the shift-dir probably has no effect on whether unavoidably spawning a giant spore right next to the player is ever fair 22:49:50 <|amethyst> if it doesn't get a turn, it's fair 22:49:58 yeah because that can happen anyways 22:50:11 <|amethyst> it could have stepped onto a tele trap out of sight 22:50:16 or around a corner 22:50:23 <_miek> okay 22:50:37 you're right, i was likely boned anyways 22:50:41 but if i had a turn, i would've hit hw 22:51:00 PleasingFungus: it seems most likely to me i let go of shift 22:51:14 anyway, I am sorry 22:51:19 shadow traps are not really all that I wanted them to be 22:51:31 I accept your apology 22:51:36 ... 22:51:38 !banish gammafunk 22:51:39 PleasingFungus casts a spell. gammafunk is cast into the Abyss! 22:51:41 can we have double damage back as recompense? 22:51:52 =p 22:52:03 that's gonna be in Nostalgia 2017 22:52:07 dang 22:52:12 double damage was a nice addition to the game 22:52:16 <|amethyst> x16 damage for octopodes 22:52:19 also the you.god = Xom bug 22:52:23 all orcs cast Torment 22:52:29 <|amethyst> and obj.class = OBJ_BOOK 22:52:34 still no mountain dwarves though 22:52:36 don't forget 22:52:39 well, obviously. 22:52:40 call it epic_crawl 22:52:46 noise is MULTIPLIED when going through walls 22:52:46 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: Hill Orcs will be Mountain Orcs 22:52:57 mountain dworcs? 22:52:58 oh 22:53:01 and +300 AC rings 22:53:05 don't forget that 22:53:06 +144 slay 22:54:04 <|amethyst> and every plant wields a vampiric weapon 22:54:17 <|amethyst> except we already established it would actually be a book 22:54:44 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:10 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:12 a vampiric book 22:55:26 vampiric books 22:55:39 this book bites........ 22:56:29 this book seems strangely attached to you.. 22:57:25 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:25 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 22:57:39 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: maybe we should negotiation with Stephenie Meyer for product placement 22:57:44 <|amethyst> s/tion/te/ 22:58:10 well, I've already implemented glittering 22:58:18 you are fully bound 22:58:35 <|amethyst> n1k: that's E. L. James 22:58:43 Oh. 22:58:55 tbf, 50 shades of grey was originally twilight fanfiction 22:58:57 <|amethyst> 50 Shades of Twilight 22:58:59 they're somehow linked right, one was a f-- 22:59:01 what PF said! 22:59:01 ya 22:59:07 man 22:59:08 http://nethack.byus.net/gnu4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board&wr_id=103229 22:59:15 <|amethyst> I... did not know that 22:59:28 it's amazing 22:59:38 google translate has title of What do you mean by mean demji double bugs. and comment of This heotgosaeng disgrace 22:59:41 man development team. ㅜㅜ 22:59:44 :( 23:00:18 fire dev team, make a new one 23:00:33 <_miek> hey at least its a cool story 23:01:17 I don't think I can stand a heotgosaeng disgrace in charge of this game 23:02:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:20 -!- DrStalker_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:34 -!- Grujah has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:21 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16.0-20-g8873363: Update the changelog for the 0.16.1 release 10(79 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8873363862b3 23:10:21 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16.0-21-g069a05e: Update the debian directory 10(58 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=069a05e71c22 23:10:51 alright, I'm able to build ubuntu trusty debs after those commits and have a local 0.16.1 tag, so if anyone has any other changes, let me know before I push the tag 23:11:20 I'm not going to make the windows and final debs until tomorrow afternoon 23:12:04 so we can post an announcement then 23:12:09 but I'd like to make the tag tonight 23:12:29 just so geekosaur has a chance to make the OS X package 23:12:40 of course we can just put that up a bit later, like we did last time 23:13:34 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:14:54 -!- DrStalker_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:15:30 <|amethyst> sounds good to me 23:15:57 <|amethyst> I do want to get my line input fixes into 0.16.2, but definitely not 0.16.1 23:16:31 <|amethyst> needs more testing once people with their weird screen sizes and config settings get back to playing trunk 23:16:44 <|amethyst> (also needs rewriting) 23:17:37 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:18:25 <|amethyst> or at least documenting 23:19:54 -!- DrStalker_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:07 %git 0.16.1 23:20:07 07gammafunk02 * 0.16.1: Update the debian directory 10(68 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=069a05e71c22 23:21:47 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:00 ??bots 23:22:00 bots[1/3]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Rotatell (CBRO, ^), Eksell (CXC, |); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? & and others) 23:22:05 @version 23:22:42 @??bat 23:22:42 bat (15b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 1/14 | Dam: 1 | see invisible, fly | Res: 08blind | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 23:22:46 @versions 23:22:48 http://pastebin.com/suy9mwYj opinions on these numbers would be appreciated 23:22:54 -!- meatpath has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:21 wonder why version isn't working on cdo 23:23:27 !lg * src=cdo x=vlong 23:23:28 1004486. [vlong=0.16.0-18-g484a79e] clouded the Cudgeler (L6 MuCK of Xom), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2015-03-23 04:01:26, with 268 points after 3423 turns and 0:07:56. 23:23:35 <|amethyst> gammafunk: because gretell and sizzell forked long ago 23:23:48 oh 23:23:53 is there a version command for cdo then? 23:24:04 <|amethyst> &version cdo 23:24:05 one that would show 0.16, that is 23:24:07 cdo: 0.17-a0-119-g2b06fc5 23:24:11 n.b. that player_shield_racial_factor() is 5 + (SIZE_MEDIUM - you.body_size()) * 2 - so trolls are 3, humans are 5, ha are 7, sp are 9 not that it matters 23:24:13 <|amethyst> &version cdo 0.16 23:24:15 cdo 0.16: 0.16.0-18-g484a79e 23:24:17 oh nice 23:24:23 <|amethyst> that's most recent milestone 23:24:26 <|amethyst> err 23:24:34 <|amethyst> latest-version milestone I mean 23:24:42 ok, so basically same as I did 23:24:49 well almost 23:24:54 <|amethyst> max=vlong but yeah 23:27:12 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:10 Poison. 23:33:17 sorry. 23:33:59 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:54 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:36:53 !serverstats 23:37:08 !serverstats t0.16 23:37:27 4115799 games for *: 1725008x cao [27354], 1004487x cdo [14486], 926035x cszo [10459], 167035x clan [2533], 178317x ckr [2317], 46292x cbro [1296], 24437x rhf [693], 12997x cwz [419], 12845x cxc [395], 14641x lld [274], 3705x cpo [148] 23:37:28 58176 games for * (t0.16): 11373x cao [868], 12047x cszo [673], 5728x cbro [288], 2010x clan [196], 2325x cxc [173], 1781x cwz [119], 850x cpo [48], 846x lld [43], 21216x cdo [41] 23:38:48 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:17 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 23:40:48 VM needs something though. 23:40:52 ??epic bugs[17 23:40:53 epic bugs[17/24]: !log PleasingFungus kobe won 1 23:41:02 what am i looking at here? 23:41:28 <|amethyst> !log PleasingFungus kobe won 1 23:41:28 1. PleasingFungus, XL27 KoBe, T:86540: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/PleasingFungus/morgue-PleasingFungus-20140521-002909.txt 23:42:01 <|amethyst> rast: the weapon 23:42:14 <|amethyst> rast: and the race 23:42:15 ah its a bit large for a kobold 23:42:25 seems good 23:42:25 I'm serious. Starting book with nothing that affects a lot of the deadliest lair dwellers makes it easily the hardest/worst book start. *shrug* 23:42:33 <|amethyst> treeform I imagine 23:43:15 neat... i assume it was fixed to only allow treeformers to wield weaposn they could in the normal form? 23:43:49 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:45:44 !hs * t 23:45:45 58210. Tabstorm the Executioner (L27 DDBe of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-22 16:54:41, with 56641990 points after 25425 turns and 4:23:06. 23:45:58 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:46:03 is tabstorm a bot? 23:46:19 need flair colour for bots 23:46:23 <|amethyst> &rc tabstorm 23:46:24 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.16/Tabstorm.rc 23:46:32 -!- Godzilla has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:46:34 no haha 23:46:41 he just used the 2x damage bug 23:46:46 like everyone else speedrunning ddbe 23:46:50 !hs * vsb 23:46:51 No keyword 'vsb' 23:46:51 !hs * vsbe 23:46:52 9450. PurpleRed the Imperceptible (L26 VSBe of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-07-21 09:27:21, with 65223715 points after 21968 turns and 11:07:28. 23:46:54 !hs * vsbe t 23:46:55 293. Lype the Conqueror (L27 VSBe of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-17 14:09:07, with 16336828 points after 95716 turns and 5:50:03. 23:47:01 !hs * vsbe t !won 23:47:02 284. y94 the Slayer (L27 VSBe of Makhleb), mangled by a hill giant (a +0 giant club) (created by the rage of Trog) on Abyss:5 on 2015-03-21 08:26:11, with 823801 points after 18644 turns and 4:45:54. 23:47:05 !hs * vsbe t !won -log 23:47:06 284. y94, XL27 VSBe, T:18644: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/y94/morgue-y94-20150321-082611.txt 23:47:24 chequers: and bots haven't been able to speedrun (turncount) yet anyhow 23:47:34 at least not for 15 runes 23:47:43 oh yeah 23:47:44 but humans still ahve the best 3-rune 23:47:52 for turncount, that is 23:47:57 clearly, dcs is more complex than chess 23:48:02 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 23:48:50 It's overwhelmingly more complex than chess 23:49:06 hey, could release policy change so that for release branches, any build that's expected to be a server update gets tagged? 23:49:21 <|amethyst> err 23:49:32 <|amethyst> then we'd be up to 0.16.7 or something like that 23:49:35 the more important question is whether it's more difficult than chess! 23:49:39 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:49:44 -!- Mottikins_ is now known as FaMott 23:49:54 |amethyst: is that bad? 23:50:10 well yeah if we have to make a full release each time 23:50:14 binaries etc 23:50:18 Any players seriously kept shit just to reequip in Treeform? 23:50:35 no, I wasn't asking for binaries etc 23:50:52 <|amethyst> chequers: would 0.16.0.1 work for you? :) 23:50:54 but I guess I didn't get that you expect server "0.16" to not be the same as offline "0.16" 23:51:46 (I assumed that you'd push fixes to the 0.16 branch and want to bundle them up into a single update) 23:52:09 well that's basically what we did, no? 23:52:29 <|amethyst> for release, yes, but for the tournament we usually want them to go in that night or immediately 23:53:23 -!- ly^ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:53:35 I think if there are no critical updates, we basically do the cherry-picking all at once, or have in the past? 23:53:42 <|amethyst> depending on serverity, whether anyone's spamming the channel with crashes, etc 23:54:05 <|amethyst> for 0.x.2 and later that's usually what ends up happening 23:54:15 right, yeah 23:54:25 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:54:43 <|amethyst> or if someone reports a bug against stable it might get fixed in stable, maybe 23:54:45 so, I'll treat releases branches the same as trunk, where they get rebuild immediately if a commit lands in branch 23:55:01 <|amethyst> chequers: that's probably even better on stable than trunk 23:55:01 yeah that'd be good I think 23:55:40 i guess it doesn't really matter for dcss does it 23:55:42 <|amethyst> since it triggers less often, and the builds are slightly less likely to be broken 23:55:46 what was the commit that changed weapons with plusses/minuses to "enchanted"? 23:55:50 keep thinking "but it's not Proper!!!" 23:56:29 <|amethyst> %git 1d5b690e 23:56:29 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2342-g1d5b690: Identify enemy-held weapon brands on sight 10(5 months ago, 5 files, 39+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d5b690e8f29 23:56:40 earlier than that 23:56:57 all floor items with plus/minuses were identified as enchanted, at the minimum iirc 23:57:10 so players weren't incentivized to wield/wear every item looking for an upgrade 23:57:14 <|amethyst> "runed" or "glowing" you mean 23:57:16 that 23:57:49 I'm asking because I bought a -2 broad axe from a store that was just "broad axe" and I can't remember if this is intended or not 23:58:10 <|amethyst> hm, that's definitely possible if it's cursed 23:58:23 <|amethyst> most recent thing is 23:58:26 <|amethyst> %git 1d5b690e 23:58:26 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2342-g1d5b690: Identify enemy-held weapon brands on sight 10(5 months ago, 5 files, 39+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d5b690e8f29 23:58:31 i noticed that too recently! I didn't think it was intentional 23:58:33 <|amethyst> err 23:58:34 <|amethyst> wrong 23:58:41 <|amethyst> %git 16dc7de33 23:58:41 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-1677-g16dc7de: Squash plusses on boring items (Hirsch) 10(9 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=16dc7de330f9 23:59:08 <|amethyst> but there was other stuff several versions back