00:03:02 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:03 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4099-g0be755f (34) 00:04:09 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:14 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:52 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4099-g0be755f (34) 00:17:19 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:23:45 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:36 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 00:32:59 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33:24 -!- Misder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:38:14 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [] 00:40:50 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:12 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 00:43:25 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:33 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:52 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:55 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4099-g0be755f 00:54:20 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:41 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:56:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:01:00 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 01:04:30 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:11:01 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:34 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:30 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:49 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:24:28 -!- miz_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:29 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:27:27 -!- miz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:29:43 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:30:43 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:41 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:49 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:33:21 -!- comebackshane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:33:46 -!- comebackshane has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:09 -!- comebackshane has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:33 If I should ever attempt to use dragon form on a non-draconian again 01:34:46 please take the gun in the top shelf of my drawer 01:34:51 push it against my temple 01:34:58 and shoot a lead bullet into my head 01:35:00 thank you 01:39:30 -!- comebackshane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:43:44 rip 01:46:05 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:57:19 -!- WalrusKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:04:11 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:08:34 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:53 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:16:01 -!- daiy has quit [] 02:21:00 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:13 -!- Guest5715 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:14 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4099-g0be755f (34) 02:31:23 -!- miz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:46:45 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:48:32 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:55:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:02:33 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:08 -!- magicpoints has quit [] 03:25:32 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:28:21 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:40:05 -!- twb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:41 kuniqs (L27 DDEE) ASSERT(!actor_at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 428 failed. (Zig:22) 03:54:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:29 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:03:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:07:20 "unfortunately your game ended unexpectadly" when killing bennus in ziggurats 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9506 by kuniqs 04:09:45 -!- stevee has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:27:48 -!- Bcadren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:23 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:38:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:45 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:43:52 -!- AtomicHype has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:01 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:14 -!- motorbit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:05:23 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:08:59 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 05:15:33 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:20:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:48:20 -!- rophy123 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:49:28 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:49:29 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:35 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 05:53:38 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:54:25 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:01 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:28 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzwecha 06:15:52 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:16:41 -!- heteroy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:26 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:27:55 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:19 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:07:46 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:34 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:19 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:44 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:55 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:42:59 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:43:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:43:57 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:44:25 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:00 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:02:15 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:27 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:14:05 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:26:50 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:43 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:51 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:54 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:00 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:06 !lm * noun~~!actor_at s=noun 08:49:07 31 milestones for * (noun~~!actor_at): 12x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 428 failed., 6x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 431 failed., 5x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 376 failed., 4x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 430 failed., 2x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 420 failed., ASSERT(!ac... 08:49:21 !lm * noun~~!actor_at recent s=noun 08:49:21 22 milestones for * (noun~~!actor_at recent): 12x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 428 failed., 5x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 431 failed., 4x ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 430 failed., ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 433 failed. 08:49:27 !lm * noun~~!actor_at recent s=place 08:49:28 22 milestones for * (noun~~!actor_at recent): 2x Zig:24, 2x Zig:27, 2x Zig:22, 2x Zig:25, 2x Pan, 2x Zig:5, 2x Tomb:3, 2x Zig:20, 2x Zig:18, Zig:15, Zig:21, Zig:12, Zig:23 08:49:34 hm, pan 08:49:38 !lm * noun~~!actor_at recent pan -log 08:50:37 2. guzonghuiren, XL27 HEWz, T:150923 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/guzonghuiren/crash-guzonghuiren-20140409-011851.txt 08:51:18 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:29 !lm * noun~~!actor_at recent pan -log -2 08:51:32 1/2. guzonghuiren, XL27 HEWz, T:150906 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/guzonghuiren/crash-guzonghuiren-20140409-011713.txt 08:51:42 ah, both rakshasa 08:52:39 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:49 looks like the root cause is any monster appearing in the middle of the damage 08:53:02 except line 401 is supposed to handle that... 08:54:48 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:55:36 oh jeez 08:57:22 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:04 <|amethyst> wheals: is anything actually keeping move_dest from containing duplicates 08:59:04 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:59:34 <|amethyst> oh, yeah, "calculate destinations" is after that point 09:00:18 is erase_any safe there? it says it doesn't preserve order, but it's iterating over the vector in order... 09:00:51 <|amethyst> that's why the loop is counting down 09:07:18 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:35 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 09:16:18 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [] 09:18:41 <|amethyst> (it would simplify things somewhat to make move_avail into a set rather than a vector that just happens to have unique elements) 09:21:09 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:21:18 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:46 also those erase_anys might be clearer as erase_if 09:22:13 ah, the latter could just be a remove() if it were a set? 09:22:46 <|amethyst> yeah 09:23:43 <|amethyst> still trying to figure out what might cause an actor to already be there, though 09:24:21 <|amethyst> or, rather, why that position wasn't removed from move_avail in the 403 loop 09:25:38 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:55 seems most likely because it was already moved out of the grid by the previous loop 09:26:46 <|amethyst> but then actor_at would be false 09:27:16 and then put back in earlier in the very last loop 09:27:40 hm, that would require two mids having the same destination 09:27:51 oh 09:28:03 |amethyst: the second use of erase_any doesn't count down backwards :P 09:28:11 <|amethyst> but it also breaks the loop 09:28:21 oh, i see 09:28:37 <|amethyst> looking at the backtrace, at the point in time that it crashes: 09:28:43 <|amethyst> move_avail contains no duplicates 09:28:58 <|amethyst> and newpos isn't in move_avail 09:29:16 <|amethyst> but that doesn't say anything about previous iterations 09:30:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:33:34 does cszo dump cores? :P 09:33:46 <|amethyst> yes, but that one doesn't seem to be there 09:34:20 <|amethyst> !lm * cszo crash noun~~!actor_at 09:34:20 17. [2015-02-16 04:09:20] Chmeee the Cloud Mage (L27 HESk of Okawaru) ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 428 failed on turn 89203. (Tomb:3) 09:34:25 <|amethyst> !lm * cszo crash noun~~!actor_at -log 09:34:26 17. Chmeee, XL27 HESk, T:89203 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Chmeee/crash-Chmeee-20150216-040920.txt 09:34:31 <|amethyst> let me see about that one 09:34:33 [0] = {x = 40, y = 42} 09:34:38 that looks odd (in move_dest) 09:34:44 <|amethyst> I was looking at one from last year 09:36:18 also, newpos is the pos for the monster with the highest mid, which is presumably a resurrected bennu 09:36:54 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:16 which doesn't really explain too much, it already seemed clear it was part of the problem... 09:38:36 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:41:31 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:04 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:31 <|amethyst> hm 09:43:32 <|amethyst> so 09:44:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:44:38 <|amethyst> newpos = { 38, 42 } is the location of act 09:45:13 <|amethyst> and this actor isn't off the grid 09:45:36 <|amethyst> env.mgrid.mData.mData[38].mData[42] => 43 which is the mindex of act 09:46:07 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:09 what's it's mid? 09:46:14 <|amethyst> 10908 09:46:22 <|amethyst> [10908] = {x = 38, y = 42} 09:46:28 <|amethyst> so it seems like it' trying 09:46:29 ah, right, in the gdb dump 09:46:38 <|amethyst> so it seems like it's trying to move this monster to its current location 09:46:58 <|amethyst> why didn't it leave the grid in the "Gather actors" loop though 09:48:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:25 is act->pos() {38, 32 } as well? 09:48:33 <|amethyst> {38, 42} yes 09:48:58 oh 09:49:13 0x10c8050 is in move_act twice 09:49:19 so it got moved there once already 09:49:21 <|amethyst> oh 09:49:42 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:49:59 maybe move_act should be a set too :P 09:50:37 -!- siepu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:51:00 <|amethyst> oh 09:51:22 <|amethyst> I bet this is in part because bennu really do resurrect, not just spawn a new monster 09:51:46 doesn't look like it from the code... 09:51:58 <|amethyst> oh, you're right 09:52:13 <|amethyst> so how did this monster get on the list twice? 09:52:50 oh 09:52:53 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:53:09 a non-bennu monster died 09:53:18 the bennu reused its menv slot 09:53:32 then, when ->alive() is called on the first pointer, it returns true 09:53:50 <|amethyst> ah 09:54:27 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:54:33 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:55:23 i was going to say have move_act take mids, but then it would probably be better to just use move_dest 09:55:46 and iterate over the firsts 09:56:44 in fact, it turns out that the cause of the original BR was fixed by kilobyte later 09:57:05 %git 837be7a97a2b 09:57:05 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-1239-g837be7a: Revert "Prevent Tornado from moving monsters through solid features." 10(2 years, 3 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=837be7a97a2b 09:57:38 (unfortunately, that commit causes tornado throwing people through walls) 09:59:29 feel free to fix the crash yourself, i need to go now 09:59:31 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:59:47 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:11 we seem to have spambots on mantis 10:00:12 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:00:36 you too, huh? 10:00:46 ref e.g. the comments on 9108 10:02:37 actually i could not tell if that was spam or cluelessness 10:02:57 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:02:58 it's pure spam 10:02:59 ...or maybe spambot probes before they cut loose 10:03:26 there was another ticket that also had a similar comment 10:03:28 recently 10:03:58 deleted those for now 10:04:49 oh, I was thinking of the second comment on 9107, but that's just cluelessness - I doubt a spambot would edit its comments 10:06:10 dang, wheals is a bug-closing machine 10:06:49 <|amethyst> aha 10:07:22 <|amethyst> !tell wheals I think the solution to 9506 is simply to make the bennu respawn a fineff 10:07:23 |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know. 10:07:44 <|amethyst> !tell wheals that's how the rakshas:q 10:07:44 |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know. 10:08:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:08:08 <|amethyst> !tell wheals (doh) that's how the rakshasha tornado crash was fixed it seems 10:08:08 |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know. 10:10:21 <|amethyst> I bet there's a similar crash with felids too 10:10:25 <|amethyst> if they existed 10:10:58 <|amethyst> (or if someone saves Natasha until they have tornado) 10:14:11 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:51 !send |amethyst felid mummies 10:14:51 Sending felid mummies to |amethyst. 10:15:04 bcrawl is real in my heart.... 10:18:50 PleasingFungus: don't you mean dungeons of nemelex xobeh? 10:19:46 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:29 I don't discriminate. 10:27:59 Well, what fun is that? 10:31:25 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:41:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:46:18 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 10:51:08 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:20 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:55 <|amethyst> wheals: I uploaded a patch to 6401 11:08:19 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4099-g0be755f (34) 11:08:22 sounds ok 11:08:22 <|amethyst> wheals: I can't reproduce the crash though, so I just assume it works 11:08:42 yeah, i couldn't either 11:09:58 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:49 i wonder what the monsterentry* thing was about in the bennu revival code 11:11:10 any particular reason you didn't just push it? 11:11:31 <|amethyst> was hoping you were able to reproduce the crash :) 11:12:31 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:15:21 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:40 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4100-gc4bd973: Make bennu revival a fineff (#6401) 10(18 minutes ago, 5 files, 57+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c4bd9739c29e 11:15:58 uh oh, i got another crash :P 11:16:06 <|amethyst> oh? 11:16:07 oh right, that's because i wizmoded on top of a monster 11:16:10 <|amethyst> :) 11:21:13 -!- walterch has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:42 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:13 -!- WalrusKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:29:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:32:22 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:34:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:14 I've done that a bunch 11:39:22 "...wait where did that monster go?!" 11:44:28 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-4101-g5222faf: Remove some dead bennu code. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5222fafd7d5a 11:45:25 ug, how did I miss that use of BLACK 11:45:38 or maybe it was added after I redid monster colour 11:45:43 the felid version still has it! 11:45:48 well 11:45:51 I should change that 11:45:55 and actually get a commit 11:46:06 also, i should remove the natasha losing a level thing 11:46:27 oh, just have her revive? 11:46:39 or maybe have her gain a level :) 11:46:52 yeah, because she doesn't otherwise change 11:47:00 it's kind of just an innately bad design 11:47:00 hrm 11:47:06 the problem is, both of them aren't noticeable 11:47:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:22 except that her name is grey the second time 11:47:52 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:54 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:49:29 maybe change her spellset up? at that point it's not something i'd do now, though 11:49:35 ie before branching 11:49:41 speaking of which, when will that be :P 11:51:13 wheals: yeah I think the spellset idea could be something 11:51:24 WIZARD -> BATTLEMAGE -> ?? 11:51:25 ? 11:52:29 -> felid lich 11:52:35 well, I guess that just gives the player a lot more incentive to avoid her 11:52:42 then again she can be hard to avoid 11:53:02 Natasha (06h) | Spd: 10 (move: 80%) | HD: 3 | HP: 15 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 35 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, call imp, mephitic cloud | Sz: little | Int: high. 11:53:02 %??natasha 11:53:18 I guess speed 12 isn't all that fast 11:53:19 <|amethyst> @??natasha 11:53:19 Natasha (06h) | Spd: 10 (move: 80%) | HD: 3 | HP: 15 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 10 | 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 35 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, call imp, conjure flame (42d1) | Sz: little | Int: high. 11:53:26 good damage 11:53:39 @??adder 11:53:39 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:4-8) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 11:53:48 ah, so slower than an adder even 11:54:30 <|amethyst> slightly 11:54:43 <|amethyst> she's effectively 12.5, right? 11:54:47 <|amethyst> 10 / 0.8 11:54:48 yeah think so 11:55:27 -- items described as questionable (the class 100 bug) 11:55:35 I guess it'd be nice if those move/swim things used the same scale as Spd 11:55:40 interesting story 11:56:26 dbg-scan.cc searches for "questionable" monsters and items, but nothing can give them those names 11:57:01 does it search for "buggy" items? 11:57:08 I remember when decks got that label in trunk all the time 11:57:15 <|amethyst> yes, buggi and buggy 11:57:20 haha, buggi 11:57:22 <|amethyst> it was "bugg" until... 11:57:28 %git :/skybugg 11:57:30 Could not find commit :/skybugg (git returned 128) 11:57:30 <|amethyst> %git :/Skybugg 11:57:31 07|amethyst02 * 0.11-a0-2947-g3588bfa: Don't treat "Skybugg" and "Foobola" as buggy. 10(2 years, 7 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3588bfac9baa 11:57:41 that's great 11:57:59 also Foobola is the disease that wipes out humanity 11:58:20 well I guess all life on earth even 11:58:44 one wonders why it doesn't just check whatever makes the item have that name 11:58:46 <|amethyst> It's spread by those dog-lion things in Chinese restaurants 11:58:50 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:59:26 <|amethyst> wheals: that would involve duplicating a lot of naming code code 11:59:46 well, depends how you did it it 12:01:28 <|amethyst> yeah, for the most part it's subtype out of range 12:01:36 <|amethyst> but there are a few other cases 12:01:55 <|amethyst> well, not just out of range, but also "not handled in the naming code" 12:02:04 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:09 <|amethyst> but that's something compiler warnings should catch 12:02:33 <|amethyst> AFAIK that's why *_type_name cast in the switch condition 12:03:16 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-4102-g59ecb4a: Properly inherit colour when reviving dead cats 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=59ecb4a45306 12:05:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:11:40 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:17:01 elliptic: for some reason qw keeps not going on after dying in wizmode 12:17:27 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17:29 wheals: yeah, I broke that at some point 12:17:43 it was never 100% but now it usually doesn't work 12:17:46 this is the main repo one 12:18:00 i wonder if it was chris's "uppercase" change? 12:18:04 given that it was an unintentional feature in the first place, I haven't bothered trying to fix it 12:18:21 wheals: not sure, what change was that? 12:18:34 it used to press escape at the "do you want to die?" prompt and that kept it alive 12:18:39 hm 12:18:46 doubt that's relevant then 12:20:51 it is more likely just some timing changes, qw does spam Y at various times also in addition to spamming escape 12:22:01 adding a lua hook to handle the "do you want to die?" prompt might be good 12:24:33 maybe a lua hook for prompts in general? 12:25:22 send the prompt text as a string, and you can return true or false for y/n (or nil to let the player handle it) 12:25:58 huh, lair entry stairs in a special room :P 12:27:40 that might be good, yeah 12:28:26 one issue with this sort of lua hook is that players can probably majorly mess things up by calling lua that actually does something inside the hook 12:28:52 <|amethyst> that's already the case for most hooks :/. 12:28:54 <|amethyst> s/\.// 12:28:58 even simple stuff like printing text or changing item slots might be an issue 12:29:01 |amethyst: right 12:29:13 <|amethyst> hm 12:30:00 add a new system like clua and dlua, for things with no effect on game state 12:30:10 const lua, "clua" for short! 12:30:38 <|amethyst> having a separate interpreter would make communicating between that and real clua hard 12:31:11 <|amethyst> !bug 7151 12:31:11 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7151 12:31:27 it might be easier to have some global state variable that is checked to determine whether non-const lua can be used 12:31:31 <|amethyst> yeah 12:31:35 and set that variable while calling most hooks 12:31:53 there actually aren't that many things in clua that do directly alter game state 12:31:54 <|amethyst> in 7151 I suggested the other way around 12:32:05 <|amethyst> set that variable to true while calling ready 12:32:12 <|amethyst> and nowhere else 12:32:22 yeah 12:33:02 <|amethyst> (but you still have to turn it off at some point even then, since ready can do things which trigger other hooks) 12:33:09 right, was just about to say 12:33:18 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:35:39 <|amethyst> or make the clua->C calls that do affect game state instead queue the request up to happen just before the next call to ready() 12:36:17 <|amethyst> but I guess that would require lots of lua to be rewritten 12:36:37 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-4103-g8548637: Call link_items before unmarshalling monster (#9350). 10(32 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8548637ee138 12:36:37 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-4104-gbf1ace9: Encapsulate a hack somewhat. 10(22 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf1ace946ede 12:36:37 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-4105-g26c8761: Simplify. 10(2 minutes ago, 6 files, 10+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26c8761d353c 12:36:40 better get crackin'! 12:36:51 ??cheipoke 12:36:52 cheipoke[1/2]: probably unnecessary now: the github repo clone does this automatically 12:36:54 interesting 12:37:36 <|amethyst> yay webhooks 12:37:47 <|amethyst> would be nicer if there were a way to do this from gitorious 12:37:49 <|amethyst> (less delay) 12:37:52 <|amethyst> other than email... 12:39:36 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:01 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:12 -!- War_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:52:20 how would people feel about making the genus name of minotaurs "cow" 12:52:43 <|amethyst> ?? 12:52:53 this is the most pressing issue of our time! :P 12:52:59 <|amethyst> so that minotaurs get bonuses at pacifying yaks? 12:53:42 i'm moving all the names out of switch statements and noticing that it's unfair that cats get a nice genus name but not ants or cows :( 12:53:56 |amethyst: is that just something like a wget in a git hook? 12:54:05 re: cheipoke happening from github 12:54:10 oh, github 12:54:17 must be a special github thing 12:54:32 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, there's an interface in github where a project admin can say "when this kind of event fires, post info about it to this URL" 12:54:54 heh, so it just does a kind of junk POST? 12:55:19 <|amethyst> yeah, chei ignores the information in it 12:55:31 well that's cool 12:55:50 also I just cast ice beast and then hit tab to hit a quokka 12:56:03 and I miscast and tabbed through a force_more 12:56:26 the miscast caused an explosion, but because it was white it really looked like the quokka just exploded 12:56:43 that's not a big, just a future quokka buff to keep in mind 12:56:54 s/big/bug/ 12:57:01 <|amethyst> nanomanipulative explodiators 12:57:09 yesss 12:58:54 |amethyst: why can gitorious send a message to the github repo to update, but not to cheipoke? 13:00:03 <|amethyst> I don't know how that former thing happens 13:00:11 <|amethyst> it might be polling? 13:00:12 might be a special request for gitorious; |amethyst was describing a generic http request feature for github 13:00:15 could be 13:00:18 <|amethyst> doy would know since he set it up 13:00:31 <|amethyst> s/would/is more likely to/ 13:00:34 but yeah perhaps gitorious has some similar functionality these days 13:01:02 <|amethyst> I wouldn't know if it did, since I don't think I'm an admin? 13:01:04 <|amethyst> or am I? 13:01:13 no, it's just a normal webhook 13:01:25 <|amethyst> doy: I mean, getting the stuff from gitorius to github 13:01:28 from gitorious to my linode 13:01:36 oh, well 13:01:48 guess we could do cheipoke from gitorious then! 13:01:49 which triggers my linode to pull+push 13:01:54 <|amethyst> doy: gitorious has webhooks? 13:02:00 <|amethyst> doy: then that would be simpler :) 13:02:06 |amethyst: yup 13:02:06 <|amethyst> doy: (for cheipoke) 13:03:21 yeah, i don't know much about cheipoke(: 13:03:35 <|amethyst> I can't log in to gitorious right now 13:03:46 |amethyst: i think everyone has admin permissions on the gitorious repo 13:04:07 <|amethyst> or rather, I did, but then I was logged out on the next page and it's being slow to log back in 13:04:42 gitorious is usually a bit slow 13:05:39 <|amethyst> okay, I'm there now 13:06:35 <|amethyst> okay 13:06:54 <|amethyst> I deactivated the github webhook and added one on gitorious 13:06:56 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:06:59 <|amethyst> going to push something in a sec 13:10:36 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4106-g3b83783: Undangle an else. 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3b837832d67c 13:10:36 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4107-gb45b824: Use ITEM_IN_INVENTORY more. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b45b824af6ab 13:11:07 <|amethyst> seems to work 13:11:15 <|amethyst> 20ish seconds 13:11:23 <|amethyst> some of which is chei's 13:11:59 <|amethyst> not a lot faster than going through gitorious -> doy -> github -> chei but eh 13:12:26 <|amethyst> the two slow parts were the ends of course 13:12:49 -!- caricature has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:07 <|amethyst> doy: so does your URL just never send a reply or something? 13:13:24 <|amethyst> doy: gitorious claims that hook succeeded once and failed 1724 times :) 13:13:38 <|amethyst> doy: last response "Connection timed out" 13:14:14 well 13:14:44 it does, but it does so after the pull+push finishes 13:14:49 w 13:14:52 <|amethyst> ah 13:15:06 <|amethyst> and gitorious isn't that patient 13:15:09 <|amethyst> or your web server 13:15:09 and that's usually slow for some reason 13:15:43 never really looked into it, simce it seemed to be working regardless 13:15:43 now with search statistics :) http://lookupdb.guy.h 13:18:50 -!- Big_guy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:18 <|amethyst> anyone here speak Spanish well enough to review text? 13:19:24 <|amethyst> https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/merge_requests/32 13:19:43 <|amethyst> Spanish gods.txt translation updates, from about a month ago 13:19:56 <|amethyst> %git mr/32 13:19:56 Could not find commit mr/32 (git returned 128) 13:20:05 <|amethyst> %git merge-requests/32 13:20:05 07Edgar Carballo02 * 0.16-a0-3595-ga0f7eec: Translate gods text to spanish. 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 157+ 78-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a0f7eec39e2a 13:23:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:25:16 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:31:46 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:08 -!- thomus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:51:22 -!- siepu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:56:51 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 13:57:52 -!- newbie|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:42 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:08 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:18 !tell pleasingfungus literally about to make a commit with message "Move hair stats to data." 14:05:18 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 14:06:05 !learn set learndb[1] https://lookupdb.guy.ht/ for a convenient online interface for the learndb. 14:06:05 learndb[1/9]: https://lookupdb.guy.ht/ for a convenient online interface for the learndb. 14:08:49 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:13:17 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 14:17:57 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:22 ...wow 14:23:42 that url could be used against me in a court of law 14:25:25 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:32:48 gammafunk: so what do you want to make the most popular search 14:32:57 uh oh 14:33:24 apparently tasonir is already in the running 14:33:41 gammafunk: im assuming that since you abuse your tavern mod powers so much, youll want to do the same to this learndb search thing 14:33:42 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:12 well sadly those powers don't extend to the learndb search 14:34:37 haha, "is minmay the second coming of jesus christ" 8 hits 14:36:02 if crate is God, minmay is jesus, who's the holy spirit 14:36:09 -!- InMemorandumBrum has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:55 https://lookupdb.guy.ht/ doesnt go anywhere for me 14:42:52 gammafunk: that was definitely not me that did that just fyi 14:43:02 -!- WalrusKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43:21 simmarine: works for me 14:43:53 and in fact the minmay jesus narrative has moved up to the no. 4 spot 14:44:42 ??is_minmay_the_second_coming_of_jesus_christ 14:44:42 I don't have a page labeled is_minmay_the_second_coming_of_jesus_christ in my learndb. 14:44:45 ok, thought so 14:44:57 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:45 !nick minqmay 14:45:45 Mapping minqmay => minmay hypmuminmay hyperminmay martinlutherkingjr !ckr 14:46:20 gammafunk: weird 14:46:20 !lg martinlutherkingjr s=src 14:46:21 No games for martinlutherkingjr. 14:46:35 <_miek> ??gammafunk mod abuses 14:46:35 I don't have a page labeled gammafunk_mod_abuses in my learndb. 14:46:38 simmarine: is it failing to load a cdn url? I see it using that 14:46:52 gammafunk: I think that was added to my nick because I have dreams 14:46:52 _miek: learndb is not an AI! 14:47:02 haha 14:47:10 <_miek> would be a shame if that became the top search on that link 14:47:32 gammafunk: seems so 14:47:47 !lg sexymartinlutherkingjrdreams 14:47:48 No games for sexymartinlutherkingjrdreams. 14:48:04 most popular searches 1. gammafunk leaked horse sex video - 500 hits 14:48:41 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:08 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.16-a0-4108-g6e49b0d: Sync manual from wiki 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 35+ 101-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e49b0d363e4 14:50:29 http://puu.sh/gcwnx/cf5711fde4.png 14:50:33 azure jelly :o 14:50:48 ...huh 14:50:49 <_miek> lol minmay 14:51:17 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:51:30 i resent 'leaked', I purposefully released it 14:53:17 that azure jelly makes me think of metroid 14:53:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:05 yeah, it's a pretty radical reimagining relative to the current tile, but that's not necessarilly a bad thing 14:54:29 well, the old tile is just the really old jelly tile with a paint job :p 14:54:42 yeah, although it's probably the best looking version of that tile 14:54:45 I didn't read the second line 14:55:14 I thought it was just a metroid 14:55:21 he 14:55:23 h 14:55:28 -!- stanzwecha is now known as stanzill 14:55:31 "azure jelly" never occurred to me 14:55:49 the shape/red stuff is similar yeah 14:56:00 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:03 yeah, that's mostly what I'm thinking of. 14:56:43 http://puu.sh/gcwUo/608eb9a36f.png 14:57:05 that's another version I had, but I'm going to convert it to a slime creature since the shape is pretty similar 14:57:07 that's kind of a neat take 14:57:28 CanOfWorms: any chance you'd work on dissolution? 14:57:36 his tile is pretty dull 14:57:46 I don't have any immediate ideas for him yet 14:57:55 the red stuff still makes me think "metroid" now that i'm primed for it, but it's definitely less blatant 14:58:28 I think it'll look less metroid-y if I consolidate it into a big red blog 14:58:31 *blob 14:58:38 <_miek> yeah it looks like a metroid, but that's not a bad thing 14:59:22 <_miek> 2nd one looks less metroidy 15:00:22 -!- Scytalen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:02:07 clifford the big red blog 15:04:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:04:37 -!- Big_guy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:28 http://puu.sh/gcxTa/2d951ea2c0.png 15:08:23 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 15:09:16 haha that looks nice 15:10:22 how does the cold breath look? 15:10:51 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:04 kinda strange 15:11:26 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:34 probably needs like "blue sparkle things" 15:11:40 to make an association with it being cold 15:11:47 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:53 I guess the placement makes it look a bit like movement clouds or something 15:12:12 yeah 15:12:26 honestly i'd just keep it without the little cloud business 15:12:31 just to expose the glorious jellybean action 15:12:37 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:10 Darren is arguing for more traditional roguelikes to go Steam. He mentions Brogue, DCSS, DoomRL and a bunch more. http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/2wt9p9/getting_more_roguelikes_on_steam/ 15:13:10 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:13:17 alright 15:13:52 CanOfWorms: did you see my so called plastic reaper 15:13:56 yeah 15:14:32 any comments besides "stop stylizing things to make details stick out more" 15:14:37 not really 15:15:08 it's really nice how people comment that bloaxtiles look out of place yet they don't want me to make them stick out less 15:15:10 it's probably a better fit since it's closer to the existing style 15:15:27 although most of the existing style is your work :p 15:15:38 i kind of infected this thing with chrome 15:15:54 i regret nothing 15:16:36 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:17:38 dpeg: "aka vi-key are fun, but need to be put into an alternate keyset if you want them. "i" should trigger inventory no a movement! " 15:18:01 great opining on vi-keys when you don't know what are vi-keys 15:19:11 iiiindeed :) 15:19:36 it seems like Brian of Brogue would have none of this Steam stuff 15:22:27 I'm not seeing any negatives to getting DCSS on Steam besides "you have to get DCSS on Steam". 15:22:43 although if you have a hate boner for any kind of DRM then yeah that might be an issue 15:26:35 * dpeg hands out steam dragon armours to everyone 15:28:10 !lg * killer~~steam 15:28:11 1864. gammafunk the Caller (L6 HESu), blasted by a steam dragon (ball of steam) on D:5 on 2015-02-25 21:09:04, with 357 points after 3219 turns and 0:21:36. 15:28:14 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:17 !!!! 15:28:26 we must be aware of gammafunk's bias in this area 15:28:35 -!- miz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:06 given gammafunk's vulnerability to steam, he shouldn't ever be left alone in a kitchen 15:30:32 that elf was dumb, he dumbly missed dumb temple on dumb d:3 and dumbly didn't find dumb identify and got dumb layouts and deserved death by dumb steam 15:32:01 <_miek> temple on D:3? 15:32:07 er 15:32:59 oh sorry that was just an overflow, he god dumb d:7 dumb temple, which is dumb 15:33:01 dumb temple 15:33:03 *got 15:33:26 dumb for the dumb god 15:36:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:37:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:43:21 -!- miz_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:00 -!- miz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:46:05 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:36 http://i.imgur.com/v9L5tte.png 15:48:48 some alternate colors to make it look less metroid-y 15:50:13 Title cropping for long player names broken 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9507 by chris 15:53:00 <_miek> !time 15:53:00 Time: Feb 25, 2015, 09:53:00 PM, UTC. 15:53:29 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:55:36 PlateCaptain (L23 GhVM) (Vaults:3) 15:55:38 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 15:55:52 !crashlog platecaptain\ 15:55:52 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:55:53 No milestones for platecaptain\ (crash). 15:55:54 !crashlog platecaptain 15:55:55 17. PlateCaptain, XL23 GhVM, T:78879 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/PlateCaptain/crash-PlateCaptain-20150225-215519.txt 15:56:22 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:10 vault sentinel shot a penetrating bolt that killed it 15:58:17 by hitting an orb of elec 16:01:33 -!- Curlz has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:18 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 16:04:08 make ball lightning explosions fineffs? :P 16:06:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:21 s/orb of elec/ball lightning 16:08:26 <_miek> it should be possible to open inventory, select a rod and press 'w' to wield it right? 16:08:56 <|amethyst> should be but isn't 16:09:02 <|amethyst> I think this is already reported 16:09:06 <_miek> okay cool 16:10:12 <|amethyst> #8134 16:10:21 <|amethyst> !bug 8314 16:10:21 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8314 16:10:22 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 16:10:38 <|amethyst> and even earlier 16:10:40 <|amethyst> !bug 1246 16:10:40 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1246 16:12:24 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:15:48 <|amethyst> So what are the steam restriction for free games without in-app purchases? 16:16:49 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:17:45 I don't think a metroid reference is out of order. 16:21:39 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:21 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:32 |amethyst: just add microtransactions to crawl 16:24:35 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 16:26:42 |amethyst: I sometimes have this problem when compiling where it seems not all of the files are copied to their final locations 16:26:54 |amethyst: particularly the tilesheets, but also webserver js files 16:27:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: how are you building? 16:27:05 |amethyst: then I run the make command again 16:27:14 alias make-cw='make debug-lite -j5 WEBTILES=y' 16:27:27 something related to parallel make? 16:27:39 but they always get compiled with the second make 16:27:42 er moved I guess 16:27:48 in this case it apparently linked crawl again 16:29:07 |amethyst: http://sprunge.us/QSYT is what got run by make upon the second time I ussued that command 16:29:13 *issued 16:29:37 I'll notice when I start up crawl and the images are all messed up, and invariably running make again will copy the tile sheets 16:32:48 <|amethyst> hm... debug-lite: all, all: webserver, webserver: $(STATICFILES) which includes webserver/game_data/static/tileinfo-floor.js 16:33:37 <|amethyst> webserver/game_data/static/%.js: $(RLTILES)/%.js 16:33:50 <|amethyst> and $(TILEINFOJS:%=$(RLTILES)/tileinfo-%.js): build-rltiles 16:35:35 totally unrelated, but after years, and only because you happen to type that just now, do I realize what the 'rl' in rltiles means 16:36:16 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:36:17 <|amethyst> gammafunk: what did you change? 16:36:36 oh, uh, I did a rebase origin/master 16:37:00 and my pre-change branch was an earlier trunk with modifications to wizlab.des 16:37:08 well sorry and some other changes to define a monster 16:37:09 but that's it 16:37:35 the rebase was just to get it rebased to latest trunk 16:38:05 yeah I should maybe pay attetion to what I've changed when this happens 16:38:33 I want to say it happens sometimes simply when building master and doing a pull, but I'm not sure 16:38:45 doing a pull comes before building master, obv 16:39:04 am i right in thinking that there is work on a new webtiles build using JSX/react? 16:39:10 if so, what branch is it on? 16:39:51 mrwooster: yes, edlothiol and I have done a bunch of this, but it's only what we call the "client" not the game 16:39:59 the branch is webtiles-changes 16:40:10 ye, its just frontend changes right? 16:40:15 it's running on dbro and a someone older one is on cpo 16:40:36 mrwooster: yeah, specifically the lobby, the chat, a new score handler 16:40:45 %git webtiles-changes 16:40:45 07chequers02 * 0.16-a0-3866-g271a490: Disallow registering 1-character usernames 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=271a4908efb4 16:40:56 how complete is it / are there still things to be done? 16:40:59 s/someone older/somewhat older/ 16:41:18 mrwooster: I hope to move the lobby and other components to use bootstrap-react 16:41:23 so we have a nice set of components 16:41:33 they're all pretty custom at this point 16:41:48 and I want to add chat moderation 16:42:11 having bootstrap-react for the menus was my primary motivation to move the rest to bootstrap 16:42:30 our js loading system and a fair amount of the client (client.js) are very messy 16:42:51 I'm not a javascript programmer like edlothiol is, so I've been just picking it up, but ed doesn't have a lot of time these days 16:43:19 i dont have a huge amount of time, but I do work as a JS developer 16:43:34 will take a look at the code 16:43:45 mrwooster: yeah please do take a look, jsx/react is easy to pick up, and help there is appreciated 16:43:47 whats the chat system? is that new? 16:44:06 it's the tiles chat "system", which sends json messages to the webserver 16:44:15 that get relayed to game spectators 16:44:25 it's used even in current webtiles 16:44:47 but webtiles-changes cleans that up quite a bit, not sending html directly from webtiles 16:44:50 which was a problem 16:45:16 ah, yep 16:45:24 for chat moderation I'll just use some cookies and allow spectators to ignore other users from a menu 16:45:41 and allow the player to do same but also "silence" spectators from chatting in their game 16:46:04 and the server will then just not relay messages appropriately based on this 16:46:07 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:25 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:37 I'm not 100% sure about that part, server decision making might not even be necessary there 16:47:14 -!- fazisi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:36 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 16:47:47 the way we load our js libraries seems like an abomination, and there are probably some better practices we could be doing 16:48:08 ye, i took an initial look the other day… not too pretty, but it works ;) 16:48:30 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:30 mrwooster: minification, as in what to minify how, is pretty confusing to me still 16:48:36 I'm probably over-minifying 16:48:55 -!- Mushboom has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:49:23 we use r.js in our Makefile to minify the main files we've written, but then we have contrib libraries that we minify, and I don't always know what's redundant 16:49:51 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:50:54 minifying twice wont do any harm 16:51:01 its just a bit messy from a maintenance point of view 16:51:35 yeah, it'd be nice if our build process just did all minifying I guess 16:53:59 <|amethyst> hm 16:54:07 <|amethyst> we probably shouldn't have pre-minified code in our repo 16:54:21 <|amethyst> webserver/static/scripts/contrib/jquery.js looks like a license violation of either license 16:54:26 looks like the current webtiles is not minified anyway lol 16:54:27 oh really 16:54:29 <|amethyst> 1Gerr 16:54:33 <|amethyst> it's just MIT 16:54:39 mrwooster: well minification is also a server option 16:54:46 to use it or not 16:54:58 <|amethyst> but MIT requires "The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software." 16:55:02 ah k 16:55:03 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:55:03 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 16:55:08 the default is...well I'd have to check, but webtiles-changes isn't really rolled out much aside from cpo 16:55:15 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:40 |amethyst: oh, so removing that with minification is the problem 16:55:45 usually minification can be configured to keep the license at the top of the file 16:56:03 <|amethyst> I don't think any of our contribs are GPL-only, but that would be an issue too 16:56:10 we use this to minify: http://requirejs.org/docs/download.html#rjs 16:56:14 <|amethyst> since minified js is not "source code" under the GPL 16:56:24 it lives in source/util at the moment 16:57:10 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:59:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:25 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:00:52 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:46 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:15:34 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:16:29 -!- caricature has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:17:23 minification of js is a minor problem I think compared to needing to load every sprite in a couple of giant PNGs 17:17:32 did I mention getting into a game requires near 10mb 17:23:23 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:13 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:47 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-4108-g6e49b0d (34) 17:34:10 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:36:07 well I don't think it's a minor problem if it messes up our code base 17:36:59 no one was talking about whether it saved bandwidth or not, it's just messed up somewhat in our build process 17:39:39 ye, its nice to have things neat 17:39:42 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 17:45:10 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:02 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:53:05 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:57:47 -!- Guest67574 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:00:36 no sorry, what I mean is, you're right get rid of the minified codebase versions 18:00:46 a cleaner codebase > minified js right now 18:01:29 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:40 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:09:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:01 -!- DrStalker has quit [] 18:10:38 -!- Guest67574 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:11 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:26 -!- Big_guy has quit [] 18:11:31 -!- miz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:06 -!- miz has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:59 !log tabstorm 18:13:00 809. Tabstorm, XL21 GrBe, T:23673: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Tabstorm/morgue-Tabstorm-20150226-001031.txt 18:13:28 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:11 !lg tabstorm br=pan s=char 18:15:12 3 games for tabstorm (br=pan): GrBe, HOBe, VSBe 18:22:46 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:10 http://puu.sh/gcNE0/95d5a9f23b.png 18:25:23 concepts for dissolution 18:25:35 faceslime, mouthslime, cyclopslime 18:25:39 he's melinnnnnng 18:25:42 er 18:25:43 +t 18:26:22 hehe 18:26:28 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 18:26:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:40 imo animate between all three 18:27:07 (don't take any of my tiles opinions seriously) 18:27:20 CanOfWorms: that's cool! 18:27:26 I love the concept 18:28:11 the eye is nice because he can summon eyes, but the first one is really clear and just needs magic art pixie dust for shading or w/e 18:28:39 <_miek> yeah they're all really cool actually 18:29:47 only down side is that his tile will be cooler than trj 18:30:10 <_miek> well his name already is 18:30:23 *not* his monster speech though 18:30:50 maybe that got cleaned up 18:30:56 <_miek> TRJ speaks? 18:33:33 those never actually got added 18:33:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:33:36 no, and not speaking is better than a lot of of dissolution's speech (or it used to be anyhow) 18:35:13 obviously TRJ should just be http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-03/dq8-king-slime.html 18:35:45 <_miek> heh yes 18:37:00 finding that on slime:6 would certainly scare me a lot 18:38:14 -!- MackTheFife has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:40:40 -!- tgcid9999_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:11 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 18:45:28 was just looking at the sequall codebase… its insane… how long has that been in development? 18:45:45 -!- mrwooster has left ##crawl-dev 18:45:55 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:38 -!- mrwooster has left ##crawl-dev 18:47:59 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:55 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:51:39 mrwooster: quite some time, it's an interesting mix of technologies, yeah. green.snark (name warbled since we don't like to ping him unless necessary) wrote it with contributions from many others 18:52:12 http://puu.sh/gcPvz/cc83bd5b33.png 18:52:13 he does accept patches that usually get merged pretty quickly; I modified !source to use the gitweb interface |amethyst runs 18:52:47 just the other day he added a HTTP API for me -- the funny part is it just takes the same syntax as irc bot does :D 18:52:47 I feel like the mouth is less obvious with the added detail 18:53:04 CanOfWorms: pre cool. any chance of getting a weird eyeball jutting off at a weird angle? 18:53:07 wget http://sequell/?q=!lm+foo 18:53:10 yeah probbaly it is a bit 18:53:20 presuming this https://loom.shalott.org/api/sequell/ldb runs off it? 18:53:26 yeah I can add an eyeball 18:53:29 mrwooster: yes 18:53:38 he runs loom.shalott.org 18:53:43 there are other nice urls as well 18:53:46 ah, cool 18:53:46 ??sequell 18:53:46 sequell[1/4]: The ##crawl bot, handling game statistics, the {learndb}, and more. Operated by greensnark. See http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/docs/listgame.md If you want the source, go here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell 18:53:48 ??sequell[2 18:53:48 sequell[2/4]: https://loom.shalott.org/userdef.html lists user-defined keywords/commands/functions. 18:53:54 ??nick[2 18:53:55 nick ~ !nick[2/3]: If a nick mapping is too long to fit in a single entry (e.g. !nick greatplayers), you can do .echo $(nick-aliases greatplayers) in PM to see the full list. 18:53:59 er 18:54:00 ??nick[3 18:54:01 nick ~ !nick[3/3]: https://loom.shalott.org/nickmap.txt 18:54:09 I use that one for player titles on webtiles-changes 18:54:16 cool, thanks 18:54:31 (also rip not pinging the snark) 18:54:41 http://puu.sh/gcPIf/ba478028fc.png 18:54:52 that looks much better :o 18:54:59 yeah agree 18:55:25 no fancy eyeball but that it's a face is much easier to see 18:56:03 as long as it doesn't look too similar to a jelly (which I don't think it would) that's fine 18:57:14 CanOfWorms: feel free to !tell ontoclasm about the final version. I can commit it but I'm hesitant to just merge tiles as a non-artist 18:57:14 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:57:23 sure 19:03:52 CanOfWorms: neat 19:04:03 dissolution? 19:04:09 yup 19:08:49 alright, two palettes: http://i.imgur.com/NvUihny.png http://i.imgur.com/yvwZxvR.png 19:08:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:00 red v pink 19:13:35 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 19:14:22 how many players have even seen dissolution :v 19:14:49 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:16:04 <_miek> I have :P 19:16:12 <_miek> !lm . unique=dissolution 19:16:14 2. [2014-09-26 23:00:08] miek the Acrobat (L22 DEFE of Ashenzari) killed Dissolution on turn 87627. (Slime:3) 19:16:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:16:21 <_miek> !lm . unique=dissolution -2 19:16:22 1/2. [2014-09-01 10:15:04] miek the Axe Maniac (L23 HOGl of Okawaru) killed Dissolution on turn 56126. (Slime:5) 19:16:24 <_miek> twice apparently 19:16:34 <_miek> !lm * unique=dissolution x=cdist(name) 19:16:35 3130 milestones for * (unique=dissolution): cdist(name)=1516 19:16:44 3130 games? :o 19:16:53 <_miek> 3130 milestones, 1516 player names 19:17:00 haha 19:17:06 about two games per player 19:17:10 <_miek> he's pretty rare because most people just dive slime 19:17:16 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:30 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:32 <_miek> I probably should more myself 19:17:44 maybe dissolution should spawn in depths 19:17:44 I think we calculated the odds of him showing up in a game at like 25% 19:18:11 I need to find that convo again 19:18:26 <_miek> even if you dive slime? 19:18:46 showing up meaning generating 19:18:55 <_miek> right 19:19:35 yea. generating in that game 19:21:02 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:11 CanOfWorms: i like the pink more; in fact, it could be even brighter 19:21:32 jellies are already red and he should be obviously different from them 19:21:58 let's see 19:22:03 dissolution the hot pink priest of jiyva 19:22:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:22:18 ??dissolution 19:22:19 dissolution[1/3]: A sentient, unique jelly who used to be human (a long time ago). Burrows like a boring beetle. If you hear a "sizzling sound", that's him digging through rock. Summons eyes, so treat with great care. 19:22:30 http://puu.sh/gcREb/a6feef40a2.png 19:22:38 glorious 19:22:41 a sentient wad of bubble gum 19:22:45 Killer Klown (10p) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 131-170 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(160) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 4747 | Sp: blink [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:22:45 %??killer klown 19:23:08 Killer Klowns aren't human are they? 19:23:16 kinda 19:23:32 they have some hacks to get their own corpse 19:23:36 either way, just retheme dissolution as a killer clown and change his colors 19:24:22 that would definitely make him exciting enough that players would be sure to search for him 19:24:36 blinky blinky 19:24:44 http://i.imgur.com/QO62kJD.png 19:25:00 oh, discolution? 19:25:14 high priest of disco? 19:25:32 April fools Easter egg. that like 2 people might ever experience 19:26:09 clearly just make him guaranteed to spawn beside trj 19:26:30 or that 19:26:34 since they're supposed to be best jellybros anyhow 19:26:34 or 19:26:40 unrelated: what about making sun demons generate a solar aura 19:26:44 seeing that trj was turned into a jelly thanks to dissolution 19:26:51 same kind as TSO/Fedhas, maybe 1-2 tile radius 19:27:04 rip EV characters 19:27:10 hehe 19:27:11 just borrow the pan code to make dissolution chase you after you take the rune and not kill him 19:27:14 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:33 <_miek> ??bend time 19:27:34 bend time[1/1]: Slows down everything that is next to you when you use it, unless the monster passes a (Monster HD)d3 > ((16+INVO*8)d2)/2 check. Probability of success can be calculated http://anydice.com/program/4ec6 here. 19:27:39 <_miek> whoops wrong channel 19:27:52 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:29:22 -!- dark_star has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:30:08 CanOfWorms: do you have to do that mysterious "move it up some pixels" necromancy? 19:30:21 should I raise it again? 19:30:37 I guess it should be at the top of the image? dunno what ontoclasm thinks 19:30:44 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30:48 maybe it's a perspective thing 19:31:00 look I just know how to make variables and for loops ok 19:31:12 found the dissolution spawn probability stuff 19:32:36 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:03 !seen |amethyst 19:33:03 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:33:03 I last saw |amethyst at Wed Feb 25 22:56:14 2015 UTC (2h 36m 49s ago) saying 'since minified js is not "source code" under the GPL' on ##crawl-dev. 19:33:04 i always just center the thing (ignoring the shadow) 19:33:13 1/2 chance to not even spawn a unique. 2/5 chance to pick dissolution (two vaults. dissolution and dummy. can't remember where the 5 comes from) 19:33:26 johnstein: per-floor? 19:33:36 100/300 weighting. (diss is 100. dummy is 200) 19:34:27 probability =1-(14/15)^floors where floors = 5 floors he can spawn on 19:34:40 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 19:34:52 PleasingFungus: yea. I'm just copying the text from before. I might have missed a variable 19:35:47 the problem is sort of that when he does spawn, he's just not a very good unique 19:36:15 fun theme for slime, but he probably needs some help 19:36:28 -!- ayayaya has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:01 !lg * recent br=slime s=ikiller 19:37:02 1495 games for * (recent br=slime): 603x the royal jelly, 380x an acid blob, 149x an azure jelly, 94x, 57x a slime creature, 25x a large slime creature, 21x a titanic slime creature, 21x a great orb of eyes, 20x a death ooze, 19x an enormous slime creature, 18x a brown ooze, 17x an eye of devastation, 16x a very large slime creature, 9x Dissolution, 5x the player character, 4x the power of Zot, 4x... 19:37:20 lol, not far behind "the player character 19:37:21 " 19:37:58 !lg * recent br=slime s=cikiller 19:37:58 1495 games for * (recent br=slime): 603x the royal jelly, 380x an acid blob, 149x an azure jelly, 94x, 57x a slime creature, 25x a large slime creature, 21x a great orb of eyes, 21x a titanic slime creature, 20x a death ooze, 19x an enormous slime creature, 18x a brown ooze, 17x an eye of devastation, 16x a very large slime creature, 15x a player ghost, 9x Dissolution, 5x the player character, 4x ... 19:38:21 does dissolution actually kill anyone who knows beforehand that he summons eyeballs 19:38:28 because i'm pretty sure that can't happen 19:40:27 http://puu.sh/gcSQZ/d1bac66645.png 19:40:33 discolution 19:41:41 !lg * recent ikiller=dissolution s=status 19:41:42 9 games for * (recent ikiller=dissolution): berserking, paralysed,repel missiles, brilliant,paralysed,glowing, confused,corroded equipment, corroded equipment,flying, confused,paralysed,very slightly contaminated,hasted, confused,paralysed,corroded equipment,very slightly contaminated, paralysed,mighty,agile,corroded equipment,flying, paralysed,corroded equipment 19:41:59 !lg * recent ikiller=dissolution / status ~~paralysed 19:41:59 6/9 games for * (recent ikiller=dissolution): N=6/9 (66.67%) 19:42:10 hm 19:42:13 have I already suggested just removing dissolution 19:42:17 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 19:42:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 19:42:22 I don't think so 19:42:30 just remove dissolution 19:42:33 ok 19:42:52 minmay: your gospel is spreading on the lookub db thing, oh LORD 19:43:06 he's TRJ with eyes instead of splitting and he can't actually kill anyone (even moreso than other uniques) 19:43:43 gammafunk: I don't suppose you have any idea who is doing this 19:43:53 ??learndb 19:43:53 learndb[1/9]: https://lookupdb.guy.ht/ for a convenient online interface for the learndb. 19:44:03 haha 19:44:04 well it counts in realtime 19:44:07 seems to be a competition 19:44:07 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Quit: Restart client.] 19:44:20 "is minmay a false messiah 19:44:20 and also counts just on each refresh 19:44:27 CanOfWorms: ooh disco 19:44:37 I accounted for two 'is minmay the second coming's and nine 'torpor snail's 19:44:38 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:40 maybe I'll just spam "lich" 19:44:41 torpor snails are important 19:44:55 there you go 19:44:58 I see it climbing 19:45:06 I think torpor snails are one of my favorite monsters 19:45:16 well, as a player, they can die in a fire 19:45:16 torpor snails are one of my least favourite monsters 19:45:27 (not really i think a lot of monsers are worse) 19:45:32 (monsters even) 19:45:44 they are one of the monsters that really affect my tactical decision making 19:46:00 I feel like they might be more psychologically effective than actually dangerous 19:46:09 johnstein: that really shouldn't be the case... 19:46:22 as in, a lot moreso than other monsters 19:46:29 I don't find torpor snails do much other than make me more obsessive about pulling packs in lair 19:46:34 hmm 19:46:45 gammafunk: why? they make me slow while they see me. so I can either try to kill them quick or I need to get out of its LoS. 19:46:55 how much EV do you lose for standing in halos? 19:47:09 johnstein: they're harmless if they're by themselves 19:47:10 I'm not a Good Player though, so I may be missing some tactics that make them less of a threat and more boring 19:47:15 so you basically endevour to make that the case 19:47:16 yep 19:47:20 CanOfWorms: nobody knows but it's probably around like 7 19:47:21 and that's easy to do 19:47:46 ah 19:47:53 I'm not saying they don't warrant consideration, but they don't warrent it a lot more than other monsters 19:48:06 *warrant 19:49:01 ??buttlang 19:49:01 I don't have a page labeled buttlang in my learndb. 19:49:06 sad 19:49:11 ya 19:49:19 simmarine: i can't access the learndb page at https either, actually 19:49:27 !learn e learndb[1] s/https/http 19:49:28 learndb[1/9]: http://lookupdb.guy.ht/ for a convenient online interface for the learndb. 19:49:32 would be funny to script it up so it's an entry that occasionally randomly replaces parts of itself with 'butt' 19:49:33 that works though 19:49:37 https works fine for me 19:49:49 who maintains that? maybe it could just now show results that didn't match 19:49:51 CanOfWorms: looks like it gives opponents +2-9 on their attack roll 19:49:53 in the top searches list 19:49:56 being haloed by not-yourself 19:49:57 that would help a lot 19:50:12 same as corona and sticky flame and QUAD DAMAGE 19:50:16 I guess it's still exploitable though 19:50:20 aha 19:50:33 I was suggesting earlier to give sun demons a small halo 19:50:34 perhaps "top entries" would just be better than top searches 19:50:55 invisibility, inacc, and confusion all give -5 to-hit 19:50:59 since they shine "with the heat and fury of a fallen star" 19:51:10 !tell mrwooster might be useful for there to be something that says "entry not found", so the user doesn't wonder whether it's just being slow 19:51:11 wheals: OK, I'll let mrwooster know. 19:51:22 oh it's mrwooster 19:51:24 !learn add minmay_is_trying_too_hard will you asswipes stop spamming this thing i have nothing to do with it whatsoever 19:51:24 minmay is trying too hard[1/1]: will you asswipes stop spamming this thing i have nothing to do with it whatsoever 19:51:26 I'm not actually convinced that sun demons need a new gimmick 19:51:35 they're perfectly deadly as is 19:51:40 ??sun demon[diameter 19:51:40 I don't have a page labeled sun demon[diameter in my learndb. 19:51:41 and haloes are kind of distracting 19:51:49 should be reserved for special monsters 19:51:53 ??sun demon[circum 19:51:53 sun_demon[2/2]: So called because it is more than 4 billion meters in circumference. 19:51:54 (which we've made some progress on) 19:51:57 sun demon is easily my favourite 3 19:51:59 imo a good gimmick 19:52:35 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:52:58 it is certainly a lot more interesting than new soul eater 19:53:17 what was old soul eater 19:53:27 permanent xp damage 19:53:28 new soul eater but without drain life spell 19:53:29 so 19:53:32 basically the same as new soul eater 19:53:34 heh 19:53:40 but less full-screen pings 19:53:58 does anyone who knows about the rcfile option actually leave those on 19:54:04 <- 19:54:25 also, I lied earlier about invisibility 19:54:30 and its effects on accuracy 19:54:31 sorry 19:54:34 anyway if you want to add bullshit to a 3, why not pick one of the really harmless ones (ice devil, soul eater, chaos spawn, ynoxinul kind of maybe) 19:54:43 hmm 19:54:51 give ynoxinul forceful dismissal? 19:54:59 well, if that spell was still existing 19:55:05 that's okay, literally nobody has given a 100% correct description of invisibility i think 19:55:07 and possibly not terrible on their summons 19:55:11 we could bring it back if we had a good reason 19:55:18 also I think ice devils can probably kill people 19:55:20 hm 19:55:27 !lg * recent killer="ice devil" 19:55:28 489. suldrek the Grappler (L11 GrMo of Sif Muna), slain by an ice devil in IceCv (ice_cave_small_demon) on 2015-02-25 22:44:13, with 10122 points after 10602 turns and 0:45:56. 19:55:30 !lg * recent killer="soul eater" 19:55:31 276. WhatIsLove the Destroyer (L11 DgCj), blasted by a soul eater (drain life) (summoned by an orc sorcerer (led by an orc warlord)) on Orc:3 on 2015-02-25 14:12:31, with 11363 points after 15856 turns and 1:06:03. 19:55:38 !lg * recent killer="sun demon" 19:55:39 753. Chish the Cleaver (L11 CeFi of Okawaru), slain by a sun demon on D:13 (minmay_fire_ice_demons) on 2015-02-25 23:01:38, with 9282 points after 9510 turns and 1:14:53. 19:55:41 Lasty: tabstorm was complaining (incredible!) that the anti-resists on artes feel too common, e.g. too many rF- rC- with good attributes that aren't sufficiently good to outway the bad attributes. Do you think all of that is in a good place currently yourself? 19:55:49 obviously we're not changing anything relative to 0.16 19:56:03 fwiw logicninja's also been complaining about it 19:56:15 I think it's fine but I refuse to commit myself in any way 19:56:16 I guess we could actually, since it's tweaking, but I'm saying we don't have to 19:56:17 since I'm retired 19:56:22 you are not retired! 19:56:28 no I am 19:56:29 I question whether negative properties belong on randarts at all 19:56:30 see 19:56:31 gammafunk: I'm not sure how I feel about it. It is pretty common, and it does make a lot of artefacts pretty bad, but it also makes for some interesting ones as well. 19:56:31 I just said 19:56:57 they only add decision space if there /are no items for that slot that are unambiguously better than nothing/, and they promote swapping to a much greater extent than positive properties 19:57:00 you can't retire that young without your internet millions, and you don't have that ergo you're Still In The Game 19:57:03 cash money 19:57:11 gammafunk: I'd like to deepen the pool of negative props, but it might also be worth making the negative property frequencies independent of positive property frequenceies 19:57:21 so that rF+ can be more common than rF-. 19:57:37 minmay: i... don't think that first thing you said is true 19:57:40 Lasty: "makes for some interesting ones as well" - do players really frequently find armour randarts before finding anything else for the slot? I don't 19:58:03 which is better: a +2 hat or a +2 hat of rF+ rC- 19:58:14 (i mean, it's probably the first but it's not, like, obvious) 19:58:16 maybe negaprops should only spawn with really good props 19:58:16 minmay: I've used several artefacts that had negative properties and been happy with them, and anecdotally I've heard the same from other players 19:58:30 <_miek> first is better 19:58:39 ontoclasm, Lasty: here is a simple explanation of why negative properties do not increase decision space except in the case I mentioned https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15168&p=207798#p207798 19:58:42 <_miek> unless you have rC++ and no rF+ 19:58:50 CanOfWorms: negative props are proportional to positive props, though it may not be at the right rate. 19:58:52 <_miek> which is pretty special case 19:58:59 well I mean more like 19:59:08 minmay: yeah i understand what you mean but i think you're wrong 19:59:13 if a negaprop appears, a "really good" prop should also appear 19:59:17 or have them tied? 19:59:27 a negaprop appears if and only if a "really good" prop appears 19:59:38 comparisons like " which is better: a +2 hat or a +2 hat of rF+ rC-" are completely missing the point, because they would STILL EXIST without negative properties 19:59:39 "really good" being stuff like >+10 enchant? 19:59:53 and uh 19:59:57 I need to find a list of randart props 19:59:58 it would simply be "which is better: a +2 hat of rC++ or a +2 hat of rF+" 20:00:08 minmay: you make it sound like the artefacts with negative properties are being compared against strictly-better items w/o negative props. You don't address the case where the item with the negative property also offer significant bonuses greater than other equipment you have 20:00:14 the difference between the two items is literally the same 20:00:27 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 20:00:35 <_miek> minmay: That's not entirely true because having rC- instead of no rC is a different situation to having no rC+ instead of rC+ 20:01:01 +10 enchant, +6 slay, 3 pips of rF/rC/rN 20:01:34 _miek: if negative properties exist without corresponding positive ones, sure, decision space is potentially increased; I thought that was obvious enough without being mentioned. currently they do not exist in crawl though 20:01:53 ...you don't always have literally every item 20:02:18 if those hats i mentioned show up early on, i have a choice; one choice is dangerous but gets me rF, the other is safe but doesn't 20:02:20 <_miek> minmay: I don't follow 20:02:21 _miek: and no, that difference isn't different, the change in your attributes is the same 20:02:45 <_miek> minmay: The difference is a surprise bolt of cold will kill you 20:02:48 minmay: for example: +3 helmet "Getiub" {-Tele rN+ MR+} -- it's got significant advantages and a significant disadvantage. You might well say it's always better to wear a +2 helmet, but the option to play w/o tele/blink in exchange for some bonus stats can be tempting. 20:03:04 ontoclasm: right, which is why I said they can be interesting if all items are shitty, which is currently not the case 20:03:30 have randarts always spawn with at least 1 negaprop? 20:03:34 no 20:03:40 they haven't always and don't now 20:04:00 Lasty: oh, I suppose -Tele and -Cast don't have corresponding positive ones, forgot about those since I have literally never found an interesting artefact with them that wasn't maxwell's :P I was mainly thinking of negative resistances/stats/slaying/etc 20:04:40 a +2 hat {Int+3} is not shitty, but a +2 hat {Slay+6 rC-} is better, imo, especiallly if you have a source of rC 20:04:55 <_miek> suppose you don't though? 20:05:00 ontoclasm: yeah, agreed. The current generation tries to generate things more like the latter than the former. 20:05:07 ontoclasm: the difference between those is the same as the difference between a +2 hat {Int+3 rC+} and a +2 hat {Slay+6} 20:05:10 ontoclasm: this is the entire point 20:05:11 then i would have to think about it 20:05:34 <_miek> minmay: I disagree entirely, the difference is only true if you have another source of rC+ you're not using because you have the hat 20:05:39 but it isn't, though 20:05:45 minmay: not really, because rC- isn't really parallel to rC+. 20:05:47 walking around with rC- is dangerous 20:06:02 (in some places) 20:06:48 well yeah, the difference between rC- and rC. (33% less damage) isn't exactly the same as that between rC and rC+ (50% less damage), but that's because resistances specifically have weird scaling 20:07:16 and it assumes that you have nothing else that can affect rC, which, again, is not the case in crawl 20:07:28 it can be 20:07:32 <_miek> it often is 20:07:42 furthermore, in current crawl, the same is true of the difference between rC. and rC+ compared to the difference between rC+ and rC++! 20:07:54 I've had a lot of characters missing one or both of rC/rF by the time I'm doing depths. 20:08:10 I still do not see how this decision is different 20:08:15 <_miek> its common to hear people say you only need to worry about having rC+ and rF+ because they take the most damage off 20:08:31 <_miek> so rC+ is less valuable if you already have it 20:08:31 one obvious difference is the actual power level of the characters involved... 20:08:31 the point is that, given how powerful spells are, and how much hp the player has, rC0 is reasonably safe 20:08:33 the +2 hat {Int+3} is clearly better than no hat, so of course you are comparing the +2 hat {Slay+6 rC-} hat to the other hat 20:08:49 <_miek> and rC- is hugely more dangerous if you don't have rC+ 20:09:06 rC+ is, in some sense, a luxury 20:09:24 not having rC- is a necessity 20:09:29 (usually) 20:09:40 <_miek> so comparing a +2 hat {int+3, rC+} to a +2 hat {slay+6} does make a difference, because it implies the original rC+ is there, which is by no way guaranteed otherwise 20:09:47 are kraken supposed to be constantly fogging all the tim enow 20:09:58 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:10:07 simmarine: it's a bladder control problem, don't embarrass them 20:10:15 <_miek> also what ontoclasm just said 20:10:19 ah, i see i came in just at the right time 20:10:20 _miek: why does it matter if the original rC+ is there? the int+3 hat is already unambiguously better than no hat 20:10:39 ...because what if i want the slay, but have no rC 20:10:41 and holy shit, are you guys seriously trying to lecture *me* about negative resistances 20:10:44 then i have to take a risk 20:10:52 you seem to think they don't matter 20:10:59 which, i dunno, maybe they don't for you 20:11:13 not everyone is as good at crawl as you 20:11:14 <_miek> minmay: well as ontoclasm said, rC- is a deathtrap so whether or not you originally have rC+ before you wear it makes a huge difference 20:11:16 ontoclasm: you are taking the EXACT. SAME. RISK. by wearing {Slay+6} over {int+3, rC+} as you are by wearing {Slay+6 rC-} over {int+3} 20:11:35 ontoclasm: you lose 3 int and rC+, you gain 6 slaying 20:11:50 ...marginal value 20:11:50 so 20:12:04 <_miek> rC- is a death trap, rCneutral is not 20:12:15 if rC is different from rC, then sure, my argument doesn't apply, but I do not believe that this is the case 20:12:16 rC- -> rC0 is worth way more than rC0 -> rC+ 20:12:22 basically just pretend resistances are 4 pips and everyone starts with 1 pip 20:12:24 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:50 not percentage-wise, i mean, in terms of the chance of it killing you 20:13:00 and? the difference between the items is still the same 20:13:08 so what? 20:13:11 ...ok, fine, yes 20:13:16 so negative properties do not increase decision space 20:13:19 but my set is tuned to be overall worse 20:13:22 <_miek> yeah even if the step down was the same, the fact that you can die in one or two hits after gain rC- makes it a completely different prospect 20:13:33 meanwhile, they have the perceived disadvantage of encouraging more swapping 20:13:35 you gave two good items, i gave two mediocre ones 20:13:49 you know another way you can tune randarts to be overall worse? make them overall worse 20:14:13 now, if you like jewellery/weapon swapping then negative properties are good! but I perceive jewellery/weapon swapping as a design flaw 20:14:16 by, say, adding bad properties on them? 20:14:30 no by not doing that 20:14:34 but doing the other thing 20:14:37 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:40 has anyone ever taken a -5 armour to endgame? 20:14:50 or I guess 20:14:58 what would a -5 armour need to be endgame quality 20:15:17 I do think that -slaying weapons and -AC body armour are probably not worth generating 20:15:17 well, apparently Lasty believes that the overall power level of randarts is preserved by giving them more good properties and also more bad properties 20:15:18 also i do indeed think encouraging jewellery swapping is bad, but i specically mentioned armour, which you generally cannot swap 20:15:26 so surely it would be preserved by giving them fewer good properties and also fewer bad properties 20:15:30 <_miek> I see where you're coming from minmay I just still think that whether or not you already have rC+ makes a difference 20:15:35 I think minmay is right that only positive attributes is just a more elegant system, and we don't get a whole lot with negative attributes 20:16:04 <_miek> yeah can agree with that too 20:16:06 ontoclasm: true, I still don't see how it is useful on armour though (except unique ones like -Cast -Tele, although -Cast never actually introduces a decision anyway) 20:16:26 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:39 the point is, if you only ever have positive attributes, then you can never -suffer- from wearing something; everything makes you strictly stronger 20:16:40 is -wiz a artifact property nowadays? 20:16:41 -!- eb has quit [] 20:16:45 minmay: if the difference between {Slay+6 rC-} and {Int+3} is the same as {Slay+6} and {Int+3 rC+}, why would one encourage less swapping? 20:17:11 ontoclasm: that's not really a difference though, if it makes you suffer, you don't wear it, right? 20:17:24 i'd suffer for enough slaying 20:17:34 gammafunk: it could make you suffer in some ways and much stronger in others. 20:17:35 it's sort of arguing, "we don't give the players a chance to wear something that makes them less good!" 20:17:40 wheals: it doesn't; this is about the situation in current crawl where there are lots of bad properties with "matching" good ones 20:17:41 ontoclasm: that's only true when you don't have a slot filled. All items have the significant drawback of replacing another item (which is why only positive attributes introduces the same decisions) 20:18:25 wheals: the more properties, the more swapping, and if you have bad properties then you have more swapping for the same power level (theoretically) 20:18:45 <_miek> well you can't ever get into a situation where you end up with rC- using only good properties 20:18:46 mm 20:18:55 <_miek> so therefore the end-space of possible outcomes is smaller 20:19:01 yeah, the whole point is that you already lose something by not wearing another item, unless you have no items already (which is why I specifically mention this situation many times!) 20:19:02 n1k: ...but if there are no negative properties, no matter what, you cannot go below baseline 20:19:05 in any sense 20:19:06 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 20:19:21 yeah, if the artifact power levels did stay constant you would have less 20:19:37 minmay:also, would you wear X - +13 crystal plate armour of the Forgotten Beggars {-Cast rCorr Int+4 Dex+2} 20:19:38 wheals: which I assumed. I'm not proposing to buff randarts 20:19:54 it could be interesting to wear a thing that makes you better in one way, but is worse than naked in another 20:20:03 ontoclasm: yeah, that's right 20:20:15 is the base item considered during randart generation? 20:20:20 wheals: on some characters, sure, but the -Cast would not enter into my decisions other than make me absolutely, definitely not wear it on some characters (a no-brainer) 20:20:20 vis: -2 robe {Slay+6} 20:20:28 like will maces have more properties than say a demon whip or a great mace 20:20:42 would those characters really ever consider wearing a CPA? 20:20:45 not a great item but i would wear it over several other things 20:20:49 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:51 Why are we assuming that artefacts should only be worn when you have an existing good item to weigh it against? Artefacts -do- spawn before you have a full, good kit. 20:21:01 ontoclasm: but "worse than naked" is only meaningful if you are naked, or all your items are worse than naked in some way, because as soon as you have ONE positive item, you're never going to be naked again 20:21:30 Consider the helmet I mentioned before came off Robin on D:2 20:21:45 and it made the game it was in significantly different than if it had been a +2 regular helmet 20:21:59 so randarts with negative properties should spawn early and stop spawning after the player reaches some milestone? 20:22:02 like Lair 20:22:08 are we coming back around to the depth spawn limit discussion? :P 20:22:19 I don't know, what is that discussion 20:22:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:24 CanOfWorms: yeah, they should stop spawning as soon as the player is 100% guaranteed to have a full kit of excellent items. 20:22:33 Lasty: I find it's really, really rare for me to find a randart body armour before a +0 or greater robe or animal skin, or a randart weapon before any other weapon, etc. 20:22:35 of course, that never happens. 20:22:46 wheals: eh, randarts are already generated based on depth so whatever 20:23:01 i meant i assumed you would want to get rid of that 20:23:12 or are deeper ones more powerful too? 20:23:13 minmay: So you're saying a randart body armour with any negative properties could never be worn over a +0 robe/ 20:23:16 Lasty: the items don't need to be excellent for negative properties to become uninteresting...they just have to be *better than wearing nothing* 20:23:22 wheals: I would like to get rid of it 20:23:47 Lasty: I don't believe you're engaging in good faith at this point 20:23:53 lol 20:23:57 wow 20:24:06 minmay: gosh, you sound like this forum poster I know, L-something. 20:24:35 minmay: I'm genuinely confused about your position on that point, which is why I asked about it. 20:24:59 minmay: well, your argument before only made much sense insofar as you're comparing two randarts 20:25:04 Lasty: I explain it pretty concisely here: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15168&p=207798#p207798 20:25:10 since a non-randart won't have any properties besides the plusses 20:25:28 wheals: why would I be ignoring plusses? 20:25:33 <_miek> I just don't get it either, if rC- exists as a randart prop then you can end up with rC-, while if it doesn't then you can't (barring things like ice dragon armour) 20:25:48 wheals: you're not losing nothing if you take off a +0 robe, you're losing 2 base AC 20:26:20 I mean, let's give a reasonable example: +4 ring mail {rF+, Slay+3, Dex-6}, and you have other non-artefact armours. Can you really argue that the armour having -6 Dex cannot make it more interesting to choose and use than if it only had positive properties? 20:26:22 wheals: so changing into a different body armour has a cost attached already, without negative properties on the new item being necessary 20:26:30 well, duh 20:26:56 minmay: i think miek's coment was what we are all driving at here 20:27:17 Lasty: see, to me it seems obviously not more interesting. if it just had a lower enchantment/slaying so it had the same power level, what would be different? 20:27:19 minmay: I read your post twice now, and I still don't agree, and I don't think you've addressed my position on the topic. 20:28:02 ontoclasm: I wasn't aware players being able to get stats/resistances below 0 from equipment was considered important in the first place 20:28:16 minmay: because it's giving a tradeoff: it makes some aspects of your character better and others worse. If it were instead +4 ringmail of Plog {rF+} I think that'd be way less interesting, even if it's about equally strong. 20:28:18 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:28:29 well that explains why you don't understand, and dislike, this change then! 20:28:34 <_miek> minmay: that's a different consideration to what you're arguing though 20:29:17 <_miek> "there's no difference, well except there is a1 difference but that's not an important design goal" 20:29:50 Having negative and positive properties on an artefact allows wearing the artefact to transform your character more from where it would be wearing a vanilla item than is possible if you just allow positive properties 20:29:53 Lasty: well, I simply disagree that it's meaningfully different. Do you at least agree that the difference between a +4 ring mail {rF+, Slay+3, Dex-6} and a +0 robe {Dex+6} is the same as the one between a +4 ring mail {rF+ Slay+3} and a +0 robe {nothing}? 20:29:56 (without significantly changing balance) 20:30:17 I think you have the robes swapped 20:30:29 Lasty: oh, I see the root of the disagreement then. I simply don't think "transforming your character" is a meaningful concept. 20:30:29 <_miek> in a vacuum they are different decisions 20:30:33 -!- coffee` has quit [Quit: coffee`] 20:30:44 with the robes swapped, yeah, the difference is the same. 20:30:50 CanOfWorms: yes, excuse me. this irc client doesnt let me actually see the whole line im typing lol 20:31:33 But the former artefact implicitly makes all sorts of non-artefact body armours implicitly {Dex+6}, while the latter doesn't. 20:31:34 If you do think that "transforming your character" is inherently interesting, then negative properties definitely make sense, since you can add more properties and have the same overall power level; it seems that's the general consensus here, so I'll drop the subject 20:31:55 still, I think dex-6 is a different level of negaprop than rX- 20:32:05 Lasty: a {Dex+6} randart also implicitly makes all sorts of non-artefact body armours implicitly {Dex-6} 20:32:14 fr: use negaprop somewhere in the source code 20:32:17 <_miek> I'm not sure it is the general consensus, we were just arguing that it is a possibility that makes the choices different 20:32:24 minmay: true 20:32:24 stat+ rings appear less frequently (from experience) than rX rings 20:32:38 <_miek> not with any judgment as to whether that possibility was a desired state 20:32:54 so stats are in general harder to raise than rX+ 20:33:05 (based on my experience :v) 20:33:15 -!- Misder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:33:29 and this is the reason I complained about swapping: transforming your character more = more reason to swap 20:33:36 that and the majority of stats are a permanent decision 20:33:58 you can negate dex-6 by pump dex by 6, but... you're pumping dex by 6. 20:34:00 -!- gressup has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:34:02 i agree that e.g. -Tele on a ring is wort of silly 20:34:04 minmay: swapping is a bit of problem, specifically with jewelry (of course). 20:34:05 -!- gressup_ is now known as gressup 20:34:07 sort* 20:34:09 <_miek> yeah I'd like to see something that removes the requirement to swap too much too 20:34:28 (which is to say, I agree on that point) 20:35:24 minmay: Overall, I'd like to diversify the rate of negative properties that generate, and maybe slightly reduce it. It does seem pretty high right now. 20:35:25 well glad to have listened to the discussion, I hadn't really thought about this very much before tbh 20:35:57 minmay: more particularly, I'd like to make more negative properties that can't be meaningfully swapped out and which don't have positive equivalents 20:36:11 contam! 20:36:15 ponderous? 20:36:19 yeah I was going to chime in with that, re negative props without positives at one point 20:36:32 I suggested a few in this channel yesterday 20:36:36 I guess if you put it on armour it helps, as opposed to jewel/weapons 20:36:37 full set of ponderous randart on Na^Chei 20:36:56 there are already some negative props that are only on armour for that reason 20:37:00 MPcost+ 20:37:07 increase cost of spells by fixed amount 20:37:10 Lasty: for the last time, no to *ShrkTwstr! 20:37:21 gammafunk: you always crush my dreams! I'm going to my room! 20:37:26 * Lasty slams the door. 20:37:28 *Shrek? 20:37:31 Shark 20:37:32 <_miek> shrike twister? 20:37:36 . . . using the door god. 20:37:42 heh, shrike is actually better I guess! 20:37:44 delay+: increase base delay of weapon by x aut 20:37:50 but possibly not mindelay? 20:38:03 gammafunk: I thought you meant shrike too :p 20:38:03 yes, Lasty suggested that yesterday :P 20:38:08 :O 20:38:11 Forlorn 20:38:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:14 Lasty: well if you agree with me that rF- rC- rPois- Stat- Slay- are bad then hurry up and remove them because they are annoying as shit :P 20:38:17 wheals: my version was also a buff 20:38:34 minmay: haha, I don't think I said that, but MPA already removed rPois- 20:38:40 -2 apt ego...? 20:38:41 forlorn sounds interesting 20:38:53 though i guess it is faith- 20:38:54 oh I thought it was only rN- that got removed 20:38:55 forlorn would be one you swap out on exploration gods 20:39:03 still rPois- was like the least annoying one anyway since it did nothing 20:39:17 yup, that's more or less why it got removed. 20:39:20 oh yeah arrrgh 20:39:22 Lasty: I was going for "Shark Tornado" like the purposefully bad movie, but maybe you were as well! 20:39:24 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:27 rN- got removed altogether 20:39:40 minmay: what's the irritating aspect of items generating with these properties? That you don't want to use them? 20:39:49 i think (and hope) 20:39:51 ego that constantly barrages the player with miscasts? 20:40:03 I think you now understand where I'm coming from in terms of motivation, but I'm not sure if I properly understand your motivation 20:40:18 CanOfWorms: sounds like something you'd want to swap out 20:40:27 true. 20:41:01 new negative artps should apply only during meaningful events in combat. 20:41:15 otherwise it's pretty hard to avoid swap issues. 20:41:21 only have the ego activate during high tension? 20:41:24 -!- link_108 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:28 no tension pls 20:41:34 I mean 20:41:35 Lasty: that they make you swap a bunch 20:41:48 <_miek> make things like contam more common :P 20:41:57 Lasty: not that they make the items bad, almost all randarts were bad before and almost all randarts are bad still, that pretty much didnt change at all 20:41:59 <_miek> but obvious before putting them on 20:42:04 axe of blizzard: causes ice miscasts during high tension 20:42:18 <_miek> make contam's strength based on tension 20:42:19 or maybe just on unwield like contam 20:42:20 axe of wizard 20:42:24 allows you to cast axe magic 20:42:36 <_miek> axe magic 20:42:36 minmay: I see -- you end up wearing jewelry or weapons with -resists and then swap off them when a threat that uses that type of damage appears. 20:42:39 <_miek> awesome 20:42:42 (axe magic is when you hit things with an axe and they disappear) 20:42:45 Lasty: yeah 20:42:53 <_miek> ??bad_ideas[distortion 20:42:54 I don't have a page labeled bad_ideas[distortion in my learndb. 20:42:59 <_miek> aw.. 20:43:06 minmay: do you swap out the -slay/stat ones as well? 20:43:19 Lasty: this is really a complaint about "more properties" rather than negative ones specifically, but since power level didn't get better and good properties didn't get worse, bad properties necessarily were added 20:43:50 Lasty: to play optimally I should, but usually I just don't use them because it would be so obnoxious 20:43:56 unwielding seems like a good place to apply negative effects 20:44:02 Lasty: I would avoid using -slay items on principle anyway 20:44:11 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:16 minmay: yeah, I don't really know when you'd swap in a bad -slay item 20:44:17 hunger ego - does what vamp does on unwield 20:44:21 yeah if all items had Contam I would be fine with all this 20:44:23 <_miek> ??cloak of the thief 20:44:23 cloak of the thief[1/1]: the +2 cloak of the Thief {+Fog Slay-2 SInv Stlth++}. The fog costs 2MP and is as difficult as berserk rage to evoke successfully. 20:44:30 er 20:44:31 wield, 20:44:34 not unwield :v 20:44:44 cloak of the thief isn't really something you ever take off because wow +fog is ridiculously broken 20:44:53 ofc 20:44:57 <_miek> yeah lol 20:44:59 plus it's a slow swap 20:45:55 anyway 20:46:04 wrath/miscast egos that activate on unwield 20:46:05 minmay: Hmm. I'll think about removing -resists from swappable artefacts that don't already have contam . . . 20:46:14 that seems pretty reasonable 20:46:16 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: we have one of those already 20:46:27 which one? 20:46:32 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: distortion 20:46:41 yeah but that has positive bonuses too :v 20:46:48 Lasty: a property similar to contam that drains you on wield/unwield 20:46:56 <|amethyst> yeah, for an ego it should have positive bonuses 20:46:56 not sure how interesting wrath ego would be 20:47:01 ontoclasm: oh, good idea 20:47:10 well I mean 20:47:15 as a negaprop 20:47:18 basically this is what curses should be 20:47:35 |amethyst: re: the vulnerability property from yesterday, it occurs to me that it has an advantage over -hp -- -hp plays really ugly with swapping, which is one of the reasons we don't generate it, but vulnerability wouldn't. 20:47:50 the +3 robe of Vehumet {rF+, rC+, Slay-6, VehWrath} 20:47:58 ontoclasm: . . . huh. That might be the best and shortest curse revamp proposal I've heard. 20:48:31 unwearing the robe would put you under VehWrath 20:48:41 Lasty: I consider armour to be swappable btw, it just involves stairs 20:49:01 minmay: as in, see a fire giant coming, go upstairs, swap your rF- gloves? 20:49:09 Lasty: yeah 20:49:15 yeah I've certainly done it 20:49:19 hmm 20:49:26 Lasty: re curse revamp, it would be closer to how curses work if it drained you upon wielding, not unwielding 20:49:31 penance ego: unwielding this puts you in penance :o 20:49:41 though I guess if it is a -2 robe you would take it off immediately anyway 20:50:26 minmay: yeah. 20:50:37 <|amethyst> Curses currently work by consuming a scroll (or a fraction of a scroll) upon unwielding 20:50:57 <|amethyst> I'd think an unwield effect would be closer than a wield effect 20:51:03 curses are most important during the part of the game when you have 0 remove curse scrolls 20:51:23 !learn add lasty_to_do Consider ontoclasm's curse proposal: remove remove curse scroll, make curses drain you on unwield. 20:51:24 lasty to do[15/15]: Consider ontoclasm's curse proposal: remove remove curse scroll, make curses drain you on unwield. 20:51:36 yeah but the punishment is the weapon you're wielding...? 20:51:42 <|amethyst> So "can't take this off" vs "you're under wrath" 20:51:44 no need to drain the player on top of that 20:52:05 <|amethyst> \I'd think "can't take this off" vs "can't take this off without wrath/drain/etc" is closer 20:52:19 Lasty: do maintain the illusion that this curse reform was completely spearheaded by ontoclasm, disguissing the commits if you must. He's weak and the perfect fall guy if there's any revolt... 20:52:37 how would ash work 20:52:38 gammafunk: oh, did you already start work on that? 20:52:53 heh, no 20:52:54 ability at 0* to apply a random curse type to items? 20:53:10 blame PleasingFungus imo, since he think he can get away with retiring grumble grumble 20:53:11 I just like the idea of ontoclasm getting all the backlash 20:53:12 i think there'd still just be "cursed" 20:53:17 haha 20:53:24 lay your hatred upon me 20:53:35 CanOfWorms: we could keep it on scrolls and let people pray over identify scrolls or something 20:53:36 SA goes crazy when this drops, begins making ontoclasm effigies 20:53:42 |amethyst: any thoughts on that penetration crash? 20:53:45 !crashlog 20:53:46 10581. PlateCaptain, XL23 GhVM, T:78879 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/PlateCaptain/crash-PlateCaptain-20150225-215519.txt 20:53:49 so people will just sac random effect scrolls 20:53:52 Angry SA posts are dev credit. Who wants to leave that to someone else? 20:54:01 I guess you could have the base scroll determine the number of curse foo scrolls you get 20:54:05 CanOfWorms: I wasn't saying ANY scroll. I was saying ID specifically. 20:54:09 oh 20:54:21 yeah 20:54:24 ID is a good fit 20:54:39 or an ability that takes id scrolls 20:54:41 ash needs it to identify literally everything in the universe 20:54:56 Ash uses them to ID monsters out of your LOS :p 20:55:09 sac ID scrolls for piety? 20:55:10 <_miek> Ash doesn't need them, he just appreciates you removing competition 20:55:39 well I guess you indirectly get piety for saccing ID scrolls in that new framework 20:56:30 <|amethyst> wheals: making explosion etc a fineff would change behaviour a fair amount so I don't think that's a good idea 20:56:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56:59 <|amethyst> wheals: I'd consider storing a copy of the weapon etc in the beam 20:58:41 <|amethyst> wheals: or maybe not a copy but just a pointer, since that only changes if the player picks up/drops the weapon (and not if a monster dies and drops it) 20:58:44 Lasty: fwiw, if you do go through with this (I realize it will be 0.17), you'll probably need to decrease the item type selection weight to scrolls in addition to distributing the within-scroll-weight to the other scroll types rather than only doing the latter 20:58:58 so that you generate a lot fewer scrolls 20:59:23 you don't necessarilly have to decrease the number of random floor items generated, though 20:59:32 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:39 yo |amethyst 20:59:41 I had an idea 20:59:59 that idea sucks, punk 21:00:02 sorry, you're retired! 21:00:05 hey 21:00:07 since PF is retired 21:00:12 !learn add lasty_new_randp_brainstorm "vulnerable" -- multiplies damage by 10% per level after AC/EV/resistances are checked. Doesn't apply to Torment/Flay. 21:00:13 lasty new randp brainstorm[1/1]: "vulnerable" -- multiplies damage by 10% per level after AC/EV/resistances are checked. Doesn't apply to Torment/Flay. 21:00:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh? 21:00:16 wait, pf retired? 21:00:16 you should be on the beach, siping margaritas! 21:00:18 gammafunk: this is a strictly advisory idea :) 21:00:19 !learn add lasty_new_randp_brainstorm "*Taunt" - has a chance to give enemies damaged by you Might 21:00:19 lasty new randp brainstorm[2/2]: "*Taunt" - has a chance to give enemies damaged by you Might 21:00:20 why don't you just make him the scapegoat for the curse reform 21:00:24 !learn add lasty_new_randp_brainstorm "*Attract" -- when a monster hits you, has a chance to recall another monster to its position (can't chain). Alternately, chance to clone the monster. 21:00:25 lasty new randp brainstorm[3/3]: "*Attract" -- when a monster hits you, has a chance to recall another monster to its position (can't chain). Alternately, chance to clone the monster. 21:00:30 !learn add lasty_new_randp_brainstorm "*Sap" -- when you use mana, chance to lose extra mana (alternately, chance to lose mana whenever you take damage) 21:00:30 lasty new randp brainstorm[4/4]: "*Sap" -- when you use mana, chance to lose extra mana (alternately, chance to lose mana whenever you take damage) 21:00:38 he's too busy being scapegoat for everything else! 21:00:38 !learn add lasty_new_randp_brainstorm *Explosive - when damaged by enemy non-poison sources, there's a chance to drop a fireball on you. 21:00:39 lasty new randp brainstorm[5/5]: *Explosive - when damaged by enemy non-poison sources, there's a chance to drop a fireball on you. 21:01:01 that last one should be "volatile" imo 21:01:04 |amethyst: looks like attacks heavily depend on the attacker not being null 21:01:15 |amethyst: what if, for make_name(), we (1) stored the previous rng state, (2) seeded the rng with the provided seed, and (3) just used normal random functions instead of the terrifying current make_name nonsense, and (4) used some kind of unwind_var<> witchcraft to restore the previous rng state on return? 21:01:18 <|amethyst> wheals: make Grunt fix it :) 21:01:29 !blame Grunt 21:01:30 I pronounce Grunt... Guilty! 21:01:36 explosive sounds like a really useful ego for rF+++ 21:01:37 PleasingFungus: i had that idea first! 21:01:38 Lasty: Can torment cause you to explode? 21:01:44 wheals: should've told me!!! 21:01:44 make it hellfire instead 21:01:45 !learn edit lasty_new_randp_brainstorm[5 s/Explosive/Volatile/ 21:01:45 * geekosaur considers that *Attract sounds like *Dowan 21:01:45 lasty new randp brainstorm[5/5]: *Volatile - when damaged by enemy non-poison sources, there's a chance to drop a fireball on you. 21:01:47 i just didn't tell anyone since it was crazy 21:01:55 |amethyst: mainly I'm wondering about (1) and especially (4) 21:01:58 (or *Duvessa if you prefer...) 21:02:04 the rest I know how to do 21:02:09 PleasingFungus: Hadn't thought about it. 21:02:24 PleasingFungus: obv. would make flay/torment fatal, potentially, so probably not 21:02:29 well 21:02:29 specifically, since i know that at one point that was how artefacts worked, and adding something even vaguely similar made me feel bad 21:02:32 wouldn't make them directly lethal 21:02:43 and you get into a kind of nightmare of special cases once you start ruling out types of damage like that 21:02:45 should pain count? 21:02:47 etc 21:02:48 what if it was just damage triggered by "getting hit by a thing" 21:02:54 what about *torment 21:02:57 or, rather, something that ac can resist 21:02:58 PleasingFungus: why pain? It doesn't do percentage based damage 21:03:05 torment (the player only) on damage 21:03:06 well, why would pain cause you to explode 21:03:17 *It: when taking damage, sometimes It hits you. 21:03:23 CanOfWorms: we're discussing items that players might theoretically wear 21:03:38 PleasingFungus: i wonder if it's possible to have more than one rng running at a time 21:03:44 what, you wouldn't wear {*torment slay+10}??? 21:03:51 wheals: I believe it is 21:03:54 probably not, no 21:04:07 Killin' monsters isn't quite as good as living. 21:04:23 so, i guess you could spin up a new one and call the random functions 21:04:38 a la the late random3 (now ui_random) 21:04:39 hm 21:04:43 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, could make and use a new rng (currently there are two but we could make that dynamic) 21:04:59 <|amethyst> what wheals said 21:05:04 jeez, people keep stealing my ideas!! 21:05:15 I was actually slightly surprised that it wasn't made more general back then 21:05:17 make_name() currently recurses when creating jiyva names, but it's tail recursion, so we wouldn't need more than one rng 21:05:22 (then again, crawlcode...) 21:05:43 oh that reminds me 21:06:14 !source _overview_screen_title 21:06:15 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/output.cc;hb=HEAD#l2029 21:06:20 PleasingFungus: behold that for loop 21:06:43 lol 21:06:51 switch (count), good 21:07:00 oh my god 21:07:06 a real live for-switch 21:07:08 minmay: out of curiosity, are any of the speculative properties I list above ones you'd consider interesting? 21:07:18 never thought I'd see one with my own eyes... 21:07:48 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:13 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:01 !send PleasingFungus Duff's Device 21:10:02 Sending Duff's Device to PleasingFungus. 21:11:11 geekosaur: this device was more fashioned by orcs rather than by Duff 21:11:24 oh right 21:11:27 yes, I saw 21:11:31 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:31 ontoclasm: any changes to the current version of diss? 21:11:45 but if you like for/switch, what could be better than a for and a switch locked in a mutual embrace? 21:12:16 CanOfWorms: which was the latest one? 21:12:24 disturbingly, this code doesn't seem to be in initial revision 21:12:35 which means it was written in the 21st century 21:12:57 -!- rgould has quit [] 21:12:59 http://i.imgur.com/5CufpIN.png pink diss 21:13:05 http://i.imgur.com/YVXwgt5.png discolution 21:13:27 oh damn 21:13:35 that looks way better than the current tile 21:14:25 i like the two-color one better, and yeah, i'd push it up one pixel 21:14:32 looks great 21:14:40 alright 21:15:03 http://i.imgur.com/A5CD6D0.png 21:15:09 discolution pushed up 21:15:40 i guess i should install git at some point xD 21:15:53 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15:59 thanks for contributing these 21:16:07 incidentally, are you in the credits yet? 21:16:10 yes 21:16:17 I added him with new reaper 21:16:17 gamma did that in the reaper commit 21:16:34 cool 21:16:35 thanks 21:17:00 also, I don't remember if you already saw the azure jelly 21:17:06 but there are a few versions in the tiles thread 21:17:10 don't think so 21:17:19 http://i.imgur.com/68KGB63.png 21:17:21 http://i.imgur.com/yPsLBMb.png 21:17:27 http://i.imgur.com/v9L5tte.png 21:17:55 neat 21:18:18 ontoclasm: the INSTALL.txt docs in trunk have updated instructions now 21:19:02 it could probably use something to make them look more frosty but I have no ideas atm 21:19:06 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:10 I think gamma suggested some sparkles? 21:19:29 I think fannar does that 21:20:51 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:21:33 That azure jelly looks rather metroidy 21:21:50 yes 21:21:54 You have some really nice pixel art though 21:22:30 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:36 thank you :) 21:23:08 and yeah 21:23:16 the last 3 color variations are to make it look less metroidy 21:23:55 CanOfWorms: perhaps if the thing in the center were an ice crystal? 21:26:38 let's try that 21:28:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:28:24 -!- kunwon1 is now known as zombie-brunn 21:30:37 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:31:05 http://puu.sh/gcZBh/46d0d9a82a.png 21:31:20 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:31 !send wheals 3e749824 21:33:32 Sending 3e749824 to wheals. 21:34:35 CanOfWorms: mm, neat 21:34:45 not sure about the sparkles; i'd have to see it in-game 21:35:04 I'll get a screenshot 21:38:13 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:39:35 http://puu.sh/gd0dy/83a5ee95ad.png 21:40:14 PleasingFungus: mm 21:40:25 back in 0.2, anything went 21:40:34 unlike now, when 21:41:04 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:05 CanOfWorms: dang, that has some presence. might occupy too much of the tile, I'm not sure - it feels wrong for it to be 'bigger' than an acid blob, if that makes any sense? ontoclasm, back me up here 21:41:08 ...you win 21:41:41 yeah it does seem kind of big 21:41:41 I'll make a smaller version 21:41:45 PleasingFungus: note the loopy 21:41:56 also the sparkles are kind of big 21:42:15 wheals: !!! 21:42:28 CanOfWorms: fwiw, I don't think it needs to be *much* smaller, just shouldn't be significantly larger than acid blob - imho 21:42:44 i think loopy was mandatory in the style guide or something back then :P 21:43:19 that would be fine if it was loop scoped :) 21:43:42 "For loops: you can use them, as long as they either have a switch on the loop variable, or the variable is named loopy" 21:44:04 <|amethyst> about to commit a fixed version 21:44:27 scopoloopamine? 21:44:41 |amethyst: sorry, what are you fixing? 21:44:48 <|amethyst> for-switch 21:45:00 ahh 21:45:02 nice 21:45:02 that whole function could be replaced 21:45:19 http://puu.sh/gd0zE/66b7687534.png 21:45:20 -!- zombie-brunn is now known as BuddyChrist 21:45:46 i mean, char arrays 21:47:17 also, for an actual behaviour change: the second pass should make title " " rather than "" 21:47:23 <|amethyst> yes 21:47:31 <|amethyst> that's the second commit I'm about to push :) 21:47:39 ah, nice 21:47:44 chris bothering you about it? :P 21:48:12 <|amethyst> no, noticed it myself 21:48:15 <|amethyst> when testing 21:48:54 ah, ok, it came up discussing output.cc with him earlier 21:49:06 otherwise, i'd never have found this beautiful function! 21:49:15 <|amethyst> I'll credit him on that one then :) 21:49:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:49:25 <|amethyst> !lm orneryostrich x=src 21:49:25 No milestones for orneryostrich. 21:49:32 <|amethyst> !lm orneryostrich s=src 21:49:33 No milestones for orneryostrich. 21:49:35 <|amethyst> !lg orneryostrich s=src 21:49:35 No games for orneryostrich. 21:49:38 tch 21:49:41 i think 21:49:49 er, no 21:49:57 that looks wrong, sorry 21:50:23 <|amethyst> hm, on CAO, no games I guess 21:50:54 !whereis orneryostrich 21:50:54 orneryostrich the Magician (L1 DsWz) saved in Zot (ZotDef) on 2015-02-05 after 135 turns. 21:50:58 aha 21:51:37 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:51:42 |amethyst: there's a bug # 21:51:46 for the missing space 21:52:00 !bug 9507 21:52:00 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9507 21:52:03 not sure if this is it actually 21:52:04 nah, it was just related, not the same as the bug itself 21:52:05 but it's related 21:52:09 hi... 21:52:34 hello my good sir! 21:52:35 " This regression was reported to the developer responsible for it multiple times over the past months with no apparent reaction from their end." 21:52:37 thanks, chris. 21:52:39 thanks. 21:53:02 god, wheals, I can't BELIEVE how unprofessional your work here has been 21:53:08 if you keep this up, we may have to give you a pay cut! 21:53:12 what's the difference between https://crawl.develz.org/info/ and that new search that got implemented? 21:53:16 maybe reduce your hours, etc 21:53:37 CanOfWorms: 18 months 21:53:41 CanOfWorms: among other things, https://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=shard+shrike 21:53:42 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: the new one includes updates from the past year and a half 21:53:45 ah 21:53:48 haha 21:53:49 deluged! 21:53:51 PleasingFungus: |amethyst: hi 21:53:58 sorry can, didn't mean to dogpile 21:54:13 <|amethyst> hm, I could probably make "shard shrike" work in the old one 21:54:15 <|amethyst> since 21:54:17 <|amethyst> @??shard shrike 21:54:18 shard shrike (12b) | Spd: 30 | HD: 21 | HP: 87-121 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 2112(cold:21-62) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold++, 08blind | XP: 5345 | Sp: throw icicle (3d30) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 21:54:19 <|amethyst> same machine 21:54:56 huh, icicles are breathed 21:55:01 <|amethyst> (But that would be silly since the ldb stuff is all out of date) 21:55:37 <|amethyst> wheals: on what? 21:55:46 <|amethyst> wheals: shard shrike should "spit" it 21:55:56 i just meant there was a breath timer 21:56:01 * wheals has not been to coc in ages 21:56:02 <|amethyst> ah 21:56:20 ie, never actually seen one in-game 21:56:49 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4109-g6e4aab1: Refactor _overview_screen_title (wheals) 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 23+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e4aab16f4b8 21:56:49 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4110-gadeed75: Tweak the % title when space is low (ChrisOelmueller) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=adeed75a2a91 21:57:09 <|amethyst> !learn edit cheipoke[1] s/the.*clone/a gitorious webhook/ 21:57:09 cheipoke[1/2]: probably unnecessary now: a gitorious webhook does this automatically 21:57:14 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:15 yay! 22:00:20 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:01:21 The shard shrike spits a shard of ice at |amethyst. 22:01:45 !lm . coc 22:01:46 32. [2014-10-19 18:21:03] PleasingFungus the Sorcerer (L27 KoCj of Vehumet) found an icy rune of Zot on turn 71320. (Coc:7) 22:02:08 The shard shrike eructates a shard of ice at PleasingFungus 22:02:09 ! 22:02:15 looks like i haven't been to coc since, either 22:03:32 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:58 -!- roxton has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:09:04 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:49 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:17:01 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:17:50 -!- Guest67574 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:21:56 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:34 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:38 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:43 hmm 22:24:10 watching SchwerMuta's game on CSZO and they seem to be getting a lot of "The giant rock disappears in a puff of smoke!" 22:24:13 is that normal? 22:24:56 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 22:25:26 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: that's the shadow mimic 22:25:32 <|amethyst> ??dithmenos 22:25:32 dithmenos[1/4]: God of shadows. Grants the player an {umbra} at * piety ala TSO's halo, {shadow step} at ** piety, bleed smoke at *** piety, a passive shadow mimicking your actions at **** piety, and shadow form at ***** piety. 22:25:33 ah 22:25:43 right 22:28:07 PleasingFungus: yeah, i agree 22:28:15 i'd remove the sparkles and make it a bit smaller 22:28:24 more the size of the others 22:28:25 well I already made it smaller: http://i.imgur.com/0cBP8EQ.png 22:28:47 mm 22:29:42 |amethyst: lang=butt turns "fly" into "butt-ly" 22:30:19 http://i.imgur.com/4C1hY78.png 22:31:40 <|amethyst> it also affects various adverbs 22:31:42 <|amethyst> err 22:31:45 <|amethyst> various adjectives 22:31:51 <|amethyst> like "only" "ugly" etc 22:32:00 <|amethyst> but I guess "fly" is worse because that's a consonant cluster 22:32:39 <|amethyst> but "stiffly" 22:32:44 stiffly is adv, surely 22:32:48 <|amethyst> right 22:32:51 which is 22:32:55 oh I see 22:33:12 <|amethyst> I guess I'll just limit it to 3+ letter words 22:33:21 <|amethyst> and "superfly" can just be wrong 22:34:43 CanOfWorms: sorry if my "sparkles" suggestion was for nothing, I guess it works better on a unique 22:34:58 I am just always suggesting more sparkles on things at the worst possible time 22:35:02 no problem, it was worth a shot :p 22:35:10 sparkles on... rupert...? 22:35:18 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4111-gf762223: Don't butt-lify "fly" (PleasingFungus) 10(73 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7622231dcb8 22:35:20 yesss 22:35:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:13 |amethyst is a professionally trained buttler 22:36:31 <|amethyst> I considered attributing that to either (ButtFungus) or (PleasingButt) 22:36:31 pretty sure there have been more lang=butt commits than, say, shard shrike commits 22:36:45 alas, lang=butt has no compound word functionality 22:36:48 +1 for ButtFungus 22:36:54 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:00 I hope buttlang does not replace words that already contain butt in it 22:37:04 like butterflies 22:37:18 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: file a butt report 22:37:37 sure :v 22:37:56 i noticed that i think it's grunt that replaces battleaxe and book of battle with BATTLEAXE and BATTLEBOOK 22:37:57 <|amethyst> (well, maybe not... that's really more of a FR) 22:38:06 fr: with grunt and then butt this should be BUTTLEAXE and BUTTLEBOOK 22:38:12 butt request 22:38:23 buttpoke 22:38:24 hmm 22:38:33 <|amethyst> The Shining Butt 22:38:35 maybe the language should search for b*tt and replace that with butt. 22:38:44 b*tt* > butt* 22:39:11 that's a much butter idea 22:39:26 patches welcome 22:39:42 hmm 22:39:49 <|amethyst> Reminds me, I still want to make pcre required for 0.17 22:40:10 I'll make a patch once I have free time to download trunk and edit it 22:40:47 <|amethyst> so we could use e.g. { "b.*?tt", "butt" } 22:40:49 acid blob (11J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 78-115 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 4208(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, see invisible | Res: 06magic(160), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 08blind, 12drown | XP: 2419 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: plant. 22:40:49 %??acid blob 22:43:36 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 22:43:50 -!- CKyle has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:44:48 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:30 <|amethyst> hm, so I was thinking about those tornado crashes 22:45:40 <|amethyst> which still might exist for mangroves and for felids 22:46:04 <|amethyst> it would probably work, and would certainly be more robust, to first move everybody, then do damage to everybody 22:46:30 <|amethyst> or, if you prefer to make more room, first do damage to everybody, then move everybody 22:46:44 <|amethyst> where the second 'everybody' might include new monsters 22:46:58 <|amethyst> and excludes ones who died 22:49:00 <|amethyst> Grunt: any thoughts on the crash where ammo of piercing explodes a spore (killing the firer), then keeps going? The agent is gone now that we use mids, and even if we could get it, it has dropped its weapon since it is dead. wheals suggested making death explosions fineffs too but I think that might be tricky.. 22:50:07 <|amethyst> Grunt: we could set up a fake monster to do the attacking, but even then how to get the weapon and skill? store it in the beam? 22:51:11 <|amethyst> Grunt: (the crash is when the ranged_attack spawned by the beam tries to initialise the weapon, but the attacker is null) 22:51:22 !seen Grunt 22:51:22 I last saw Grunt at Thu Feb 19 01:55:37 2015 UTC (1w 2h 55m 45s ago) saying '!hellfire miek' on ##crawl. 22:51:31 <|amethyst> hm 22:51:35 he will be missed 22:51:38 the pings, the pings 22:51:38 rip 22:51:41 he's in Pandemonium, ...er 22:51:41 ! 22:51:49 oh no, he's escaped! ruuuuuunnnn! 22:51:52 a grunt appears 22:51:58 yes, ##crawl-dev can be pandemonium at times 22:52:05 (I started a new job recently and my free time is rip) 22:52:12 congrats (!?) 22:52:14 <|amethyst> congrats on the job 22:52:28 yeah congrats (or gg if you prefer) 22:52:30 <|amethyst> or condolences, whichever is appropriate :) 22:52:39 Grunt ascended that last job with the ORB 22:52:40 new char 22:52:55 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:28 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 22:53:29 what's the new job 22:53:37 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:39 that's kinda personal 22:53:40 nicolae-: read the grinder description 22:53:53 congrats on being grinder 22:54:02 or perhaps the ignacio description? take your pick 22:54:19 i also started a new job recently, which is also why i haven't been around much(: 22:54:22 * Grunt looks at his axe, then looks at gammafunk, then looks at his axe... 22:54:37 the axe is now diamonds 22:54:55 * gammafunk zaps a wand. gammafunk looks slightly unstable. 22:56:12 D and G busy with new jobs, P retired, which other gods will disappear?! 22:56:44 * PleasingFungus disappears 22:56:46 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 22:57:58 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:55 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:00:07 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 23:01:38 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:48 !tell ontoclasm http://i.imgur.com/4C1hY78.png updated version of azure jelly if you missed it 23:10:48 CanOfWorms: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 23:11:06 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 23:12:58 -!- tgcid9999_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:26:27 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-4111-gf762223 (34) 23:27:45 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:27:51 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:44 mrwooster: I don't know if you've seen the "Most popular searches" at https://lookupdb.guy.ht/ recently but....is there a way you could show something like "most popular entries" instead? 23:29:34 I guess you could also just disable the "most popular" bit if people are going to troll with it 23:29:42 ??your mom's a buttlang 23:29:42 I don't have a page labeled your_mom's_a_buttlang in my learndb. 23:29:52 ye, i saw that…. should have known that would happen… im going to set it so that it only counts valid searches 23:29:52 mrwooster: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:29:57 !messages 23:29:57 (1/1) wheals said (3h 38m 46s ago): might be useful for there to be something that says "entry not found", so the user doesn't wonder whether it's just being slow 23:30:09 cant do anything until tomorrow tho 23:30:14 no prob 23:30:30 would that prevent troll searches like "minmay is a butt" to match e.g. minmay? 23:30:36 er 23:30:41 let me try that again 23:30:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 23:30:52 well, I guess it depeonds on the search algo 23:30:56 if it does partial matches 23:31:33 ??minmay_is_trying_too_hard 23:31:34 minmay is trying too hard[1/1]: will you asswipes stop spamming this thing i have nothing to do with it whatsoever 23:31:51 ??learndb 23:31:52 learndb[1/9]: http://lookupdb.guy.ht/ for a convenient online interface for the learndb. 23:31:59 at the moment it just matches the whole term, i have plans for searches as well when I get round to it 23:32:00 :) 23:32:06 303, jeez 23:32:14 should be fixed tomorrow am 23:32:18 minmay: it turns out that the trying too hard one was Arrhythmia, and he was pleased that you made an entry for it 23:32:34 so should i spam "butterfly" y/n 23:33:08 spam it so that there are only 10 happy entries that make people feel good about themselves and others 23:35:05 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 23:37:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:57 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:38:32 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:37 ok i think ive improved it somewhat 23:40:14 -!- caricature has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:41:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:43:33 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:33 minmay: I think your foes are mounting a counterattack 23:45:13 not sure why I am spending time on this 23:45:50 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 23:48:13 there, its filled with useful entries for new players now 23:55:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:57:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:58:36 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.16-a0-4112-g89a4107: Gelatinous tiles (CanOfWorms) 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89a41073edcf